Campione! - Names, Terminology and Stylistic Issues

[Kadi]

Aphrodite was born from the white crest of some waves after someone through something into the sea... I think Kronos castrated Ouranos and Aphrodite was born from the "waste"? Or maybe there was a different story... ANYWAY!

As we have established, we can't use Gaia.
The only other suggestion I see is "mother earth", or rather "god(des) of (great) mother earth", and the objection was "doesn't it sound like talking about the planet?". And I have to say... yeah, sounds like it. So what? While it's technically not a goddess itself, or unlike Gaia not a specific one, it does get across that those kinds of gods are related to earth, nature and life/fertility, which fits.
What I'm worried about is that "god(des) of (great) mother earth" sounds forced when used in conjunction with a male god or when it shows up too often, but I guess we can wait and see how it plays out...


Edit: Ichigo, now I know why you were worried about the monkey king and his companions... *despairs* I think for now I'll put all the possibilities I find into the list and leave it for later

[Mystes]

Edit: Ichigo, now I know why you were worried about the monkey king and his companions... *despairs* I think for now I'll put all the possibilities I find into the list and leave it for later

What was the issue again?

For Mother Earth, if really it soounds too normal, we can emphais my making it "mother Earth".

[lchigo93]

Edit: Ichigo, now I know why you were worried about the monkey king and his companions... *despairs* I think for now I'll put all the possibilities I find into the list and leave it for later

What was the issue again?

For Mother Earth, if really it soounds too normal, we can emphais my making it "mother Earth".

I think it's because of the multiple name's that Sun Wu Kong is referred to, and his two companions also have quite a few names too. that's why it's a pain in the ass.

[Kadi]

That's just it. They have their "regular names", and while Sun Wukong's titles all work out in this regard, the other two have two or three other names and unless you see the Kanji, I'm afraid it's quite hard to keep them apart... Maybe we can do it like larethian did it for ItsuTen, with "furigana" hovering above the name, giving the meaning every time... Or maybe with hypertext as they did in Shana...


On mother Earth/Mother Earth: if anything, both lowercase. Here, mother earth isn't used as an entity, so making it look like a "not-name" would be best, I think? The problem was that it's too long and striking. Imagine a part where, for a few pages, every second sentence says "goddess of mother earth this, goddess of mother earth that".
It's even more problematic in Vol 7 with 斉天大聖. "Great Sage, Equal of Heaven" is even flashier, and it's used sooo freaking often and all throughout the book... Now, I like using a standardized translation for all those recurring titles, attributes and terms in general, but in this case, even I'd shorten it to Great Sage regularly. Very regularly.


Ohh, right: The txt-raws I use for Vol 7 are crap so i won't catch all the terms and locations. Sorry. (why do I even worry about Vol 7 when it's not going to be translated for at least another year?)

[lchigo93]

Well They do refer to Sun Wu Kong as "Great Sage" more often than the other names.

"Great Sage, Equal of Heaven"

Great Sage Equivalent to Heaven(????) Or does it sound weird???

[Mystes]

齐天大圣? You mean the name that the immortals give to him? Why not Qitiandasheng, instead of translating it? Cauz "Great sage, Equal of heaven" completely ruins the mightyness of the name.

[hobogunner]

Kira forgot to add the whole "Add a T/L note if you do that."

But, it is nearly impossible to shorten that in English, and the Chinese certainly sounds cooler. (Unless 'Heaven Sage' would work, but that takes away too much I think, and he's not a sage from heaven, he's a sage with the power that can equal heaven.....so, I'd definitely just use T/L notes.)

[Mystes]

Heaven Sage wouldn't be as 'meaningful' though...

[lchigo93]

齐天大圣? You mean the name that the immortals give to him? Why not Qitiandasheng, instead of translating it? Cauz "Great sage, Equal of heaven" completely ruins the mightyness of the name.

If it's like that I'd rather romanize it from japanese and not chinese. You'll know what I mean if any of you here watched Gensoumaden Saiyuki before. The way they say it sounds cooler. As much as I like the chinese way of saying it, I think the romanization from japanese sounds much cooler. Well if you go with Qitiandasheng then you'd have to have a T/L note on the bottom describing the meaning of the name, just like hobogunner said. For the sake of people who are not chinese or have no knowledge of chinese myths.

[Mystes]

What's the Japanese name?

[lchigo93]

googled it and found this on wiki for gensoumaden saiyuki: Seiten Taisei, the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, if you wanna romanize it and use the japanese version of his name then it would be Seiten Taisei Son Goku. The Great Sage Equaling Heaven is the english translation.

[Kadi]

There where I got the translation from, too... Well, I got my version off Wiki, but Great Sage Equaling Heaven is just as good. Probably better.

So, from what you said I gather that you suggest translating the titles and using the Japanese forms of the names because they sound better, is that correct? If that's so, I don't mind, although in some cases it's bothersome to say what's what. Especially when it comes to Zhu Bajie/Cho Hakkai

孫悟空 Sun Wukong (Son Gokuu)
* 『神君』 (shin-kun) ?? (??; Kanji: God-kun, -kun is the honorific)
* 猿猴神君 (enkou-shin-kun) ?? (??; enkou=monkey, shin-kun same as above)
* 斉天大聖 Great Sage Equaling Heaven (ichigo, some wiki)
* 火眼金晴 fiery-eyes golden-gaze (Wiki)
* 『弼馬温』 Protector of the Horses (Wiki)
* 猴王 Monkey King (straight translation)
** 『美猴王』 Handsome Monkey-King (Wiki)

沙悟浄 Sha Wujing (Sa Gojou)
* 深沙神 (jinsha shin) Spirit of the Deep Sands (Wiki)/Shensha Shen (Wiki)
* 深沙大将 (jinsha taishou) Leader/General of the Deep Sands?/Shensha Daijiang (TL based on the one above) OR Vaisravana/Bishamonten (pieced together from various Wiki entries)

猪八戒 Zhu Bajie (Cho Hakkai)
* 猪悟能 Zhu Wuneng
* 猪剛鬣 Zhu Gānglie (Wiki: strong-maned pig)
* 黒猪精 Hei Zhujing (??; black pig spirit)
* 天蓬元帥　(tenhougensui) ?? (??)

P.S.: I am against romanizing the titles as they are, leaving them untranslated, because there are too many. It might work with shana-style hypertext or furigana, though, but only if it sounds good enough.

P.P.S.: If we use the Japanese forms of the Chinese names here, should we use them for Luo Hao and Lu Yinghua as well?

[lchigo93]

I think Sha Gojyo has a title called Kenren Taishou, and for Cho Hakkai it's Tenpou Gunsai. That's romanization of course. I'm too lazy to type out the chinese name.

I'm suggesting romanizing the title's given to them by the immortals only if you plan on romanizing the name too. or you could just use Great Sage Equaling Heaven if romanizing is a pain in the ass.

[lchigo93]

P.P.S.: If we use the Japanese forms of the Chinese names here, should we use them for Luo Hao and Lu Yinghua as well?

What is the japanese forms for Lou Hao and Lu Yinghua?

[Kadi]

Japanese readings:
Luo Hao = Ra Gou
Luo Cuilian = Ra Suiren
Lu Yinghua = Riku Youka

I probably just added the title you mentioned for Cho Hakkai (edited the previous post). Just stumbled upon it myself. Wiki should also have a translation for us...

Anyway, deciding which is a name and which is something title-like and then romanizing the names (Japanese) and translating their titles is how I suggest to deal with this. I don't want the titles romanized (just transliterated).

Reason: I don't like having too many unnecessary Japanese words. Readers can get used to the most frequent honorifics. Certain terms (miko) and names (Ama no Murakumo, monkey king's staff) are fine, too. If it's a title for a central character that's often used instead of a name, fine (many cases Maou or Demon Lord/Queen come to mind). But I don't think that's the case here. These titles stick out and they are hard to integrate into the sentence, making the text unnatural and stiff. And even if readers get used to their appearance and meaning, once they do, the volume is over and the character is gone. So if we think about the reader, it's almost certainly better to translate their titles.

(A problem arises, as I mentioned above, if the titles are used waaaaayyyyy too often and their translation is too unhandy. But that's something the translator will have to deal with. If he has to, he can replace the title with the name in some instances. Or he might change a title into a name if it fits)

(And if it still turns out horrible we can change it later anyway)