Golden Time [FR]

[rpapo]

Let's break up this long sentence in a very literal fashion:

他にもユニフォーム姿で揃っているのは、
Hoka ni mo yunifoomu sugata de sorotte-iru no wa,
他にも = In addition to
ユニフォーム姿で = With uniform(ed) bodies
揃っている = Gathering
のは = Make all the preceding the topic of the sentence.
Topic: In addition to the gathering of uniformed bodies

テニス、
tenisu,
tennis,

それから柔道、
sore kara juudou,
from there judo,

アメフト部と一緒に
Amefuto-bu to issho ni
(the preceding (judo),) together with American Football (Grammar: X Y to issho ni = X together with Y)

ゲリラ胴上げを盛り上げているのは
gerira douage o moriagete-iru no wa
Topic: sudden livening lifting up (of spirits)

チアリーダーで、
chiariidaa de,
by cheerleaders,

剣道に弓道もいるし、
Kendou ni kyuudou mo iru shi,
There was Swordfighting to Archery too.

タキシードにドレスは
Takishiido ni doresu wa
Topic: (Those) in tuxedo dress

社交ダンスだろうか。
shakou-dansu darou ka.
Ought to be the ballroom dancers.

All this is where I got that last rendering from.

[Lery]

アメフト部と一緒に
Amefuto-bu to issho ni
(the preceding (judo),) together with American Football (Grammar: X Y to issho ni = X together with Y)

ゲリラ胴上げを盛り上げているのは
gerira douage o moriagete-iru no wa
Topic: sudden livening lifting up (of spirits)

Okay, I'm fine with everything but those two parts ^^''
But I will agreed with you for the first one if you're sure about the grammar point... But now that you said it, I think I once learned it like that too.

But for the second one, it feels like there is something odd, but I can't really be sure about anything.
ゲリラ ~ sudden
胴上げ ~ lifting a person/tossing in the air/carrying smb on.
を ~ o : indicate object of action or the subject of a causative expression (id est an expression like "make do something")...
盛り上げて~ te-form of moriagesu ~~ "to heap up/stir up/enliven"
いる ~ after a te-form, it should mean a continuing action, no ?
の ~ emphasis/instead of "ga" in a subordinated sentence, thus marking the subject/verb nominalizer : transforms the verb in some sort of noun.
は ~ mark the topic of the subordinated sentence


PS : if it disturbs you to discus the translation, we may also stop there : I'm just learning japanese, you are the experimented one here

[rpapo]

Okay, I'm fine with everything but those two parts ^^''
But I will agreed with you for the first one if you're sure about the grammar point... But now that you said it, I think I once learned it like that too.

I've run into this construct many times, which is why I recognized it.

Case in point: 私は貴方と一緒に歩いています。
Watashi wa anata to issho ni aruite-imasu.
I (the topic) you together with am walking.
I am walking (together) with you.

But for the second one, it feels like there is something odd, but I can't really be sure about anything.
ゲリラ ~ sudden
胴上げ ~ lifting a person/tossing in the air/carrying smb on.
を ~ o : indicate object of action or the subject of a causative expression (id est an expression like "make do something")...
盛り上げて~ te-form of moriagesu ~~ "to heap up/stir up/enliven"
いる ~ after a te-form, it should mean a continuing action, no ?
の ~ emphasis/instead of "ga" in a subordinated sentence, thus marking the subject/verb nominalizer : transforms the verb in some sort of noun.
は ~ mark the topic of the subordinated sentence

I agree it's odd. But I think it would be even odder to see the cheerleaders lifting the big football players, so I did a little bit of guessing here.

PS : if it disturbs you to discus the translation, we may also stop there : I'm just learning japanese, you are the experimented one here

I had just finished for the evening. I didn't finish volume 3, page 35 due to a variety of interruptions, including the need to make sure I don't run out of transcribed text during the day tomorrow. So I finished some editing for my wife, made a change to a customer's computer program, and transcribed pages 36-38. That section completes the Banri's Ghost section of chapter 1, and shifts the action over to Banri and Kouko again. They are playing Romeo and Juliet...

「ロ・ミ・オ・さ・ま」"Ro-me-o-sa-ma"



P.S. "the experimented one" . . . No, I'm not Frankenstein's monster. You meant "the experienced one"... Mind you, it would have been "el experimentado" in Spanish too, so I knew what you meant.

[Lery]

Mhhh, japanese can be tricky sometimes...
Well, anyway, let's leave it as is for now.

P.S. "the experimented one" . . . No, I'm not Frankenstein's monster. You meant "the experienced one"... Mind you, it would have been "el experimentado" in Spanish too, so I knew what you meant.

^^' This is the sign that I should go and sleep, now... It's already 2 am here

[rpapo]

Mhhh, japanese can be tricky sometimes...

Only at times?

[Lery]

Well, it depends of the point of view : the grammar is pretty simple and the conjugation isn't difficult... So when comparing it with German or with French and all our special cases and so, it's not that tricky...

But the writing system is awful, the reading skill is almost impossible to build and sometimes even those easy to understand grammar points can become really hard to understand when they are mixing themselves with each-other.

That's what I think ^^''

And I think that this is one of those special times, where the reading skill is put to its knee and the grammar points are happily clashing each-other... and here we are.

[rpapo]

Well, I am slowly building up my collection of known hieroglyphics and familiarity with the language. One thing I have noticed, however, which makes things difficult for us Westerners: the languages do not line up.

What do I mean by that? Simply this: when you learn any given pair of European languages, because they are generally related to each other, you find that more than 90% of the time the concepts coincide. That is to say, even though "Friend", "Amigo" and "Ami" all have different spellings and pronunciations, they all mean almost the same thing. The same is true for most words in the European languages: you have different words meaning roughly the same thing in the different languages.

That is much less true when you try to translate between a European language and an Oriental one. A perfect example of this (one of many, many examples) is where "Blue/Azul/Azur" it not the same as "青い" (aoi) in Japanese, which in that language means something between blue and green. The word has some of the meanings of blue (the color of the sky), and green (the color of plants/youth/inexperience). And that is probably one of the easier examples. Many individual words in European languages can wind up being translated into many different words in Japanese, depending on the context and the shade of meaning.

Apart from the difficulties in choosing the correct word when translating a Japanese word, you have the alien writing system, of course. That is becoming less and less a problem for me, though. Now the harder problem (for me) is choosing the correct meaning while translating, and that has less to do with the dictionary definitions of the characters and the combinations, as it has to do with how to parse the sentences and determine how the words are interacting with each other.

[Lery]

Mhhh, I see.

Anyway, we should stop spamming this topic with japanese analysis (Otherwise, Misogi is gonna hit us.)
But if you're wanting to continue the debate, we may as well open a new topic in the Lingua Franca Lexicon and move the currents posts to that topic, don't you think?

[rpapo]

Enough said for now, I suppose. I'm not as bad as Kira is or used to be with derailing topics . . . but I've been known to go off on tangents.

[Drakyo]

Tome 1 Chapitre 1 - Traduit.

[Drakyo]

Je suis encore tombé sur un passage qui me pose vraiment problème à traduire :

Spoiler! :

Though it couldn't be said, that with the other people passing behind her, she would have looked like a crane in the garbage dump--- about as different as a pearl from crabs. About as different as the 'Birth of Venus' receiving the blessing of angels and shining among waves is from sea grapes arranged in an oyster shell, and carried around wearing geta. Yes, around that much.

Le narrateur part ici dans une métaphore pour décrire l'incroyable charme de Kouko parmi les autres étudiants. Je ne sais pas vraiment comment formuler la comparaison avec La Naissance de Vénus.

C'est surtout un problème de compréhension de ma part je pense.

[rpapo]

Yes, the author is being extreme in comparing Kouko to the other students.

[Misogi]

Hmm... I think that the sentence is a bit weird, starting from "shining".

With the current sentence, I propose this:

Aussi différente que "La Naissance de Vénus" recevant la bénédiction des anges, et parmi la houle, l'éclat venait des raisins de mer* disposés dans une coquille d'huître**...

I hardly mamaged to find a link for the end.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccoloba_uvifera
** It should be a scallop-shell (coquille Saint-Jacques).

[Drakyo]

Yes ^^.

But, I don't get the sentence. What is compared with the Birth of venus?
In your version, it was :

About as different as receiving a blessing from an shining angel on the waves like in the ‘Birth of Venus’ is from receiving sea grapes decorated with oyster shell.

For me, the blue part is compared with the red one, but in Z-one's version, to distinguish the 2 part isn't that easy for me.

About as different as the 'Birth of Venus' receiving the blessing of angels and shining among waves is from sea grapes arranged in an oyster shell, and carried around wearing geta.

Normally, if it was like your version, the first part of the comparison should be before the "is from" and the second after. However, I don't get the relation between the sea grapes and the geta.


EDIT : @Misogi : la version anglaise à déjà ce lien pour les raisins de mer.

[Lery]

Mhhh, it looks like a translation problem to me... Couldn't we have a look at the RAW, Rpapo ???