Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei: Names & Terminology

[seitsuki]

Mm, alright. I've skimmed through some earlier chapters and it seems that's pretty much the consensus. Someone update the term page?

Also, same thing for 魔法式 ?

[Dreyakis]

I went with Magic Sequence for 魔法式.

Oh yikes, there was a metric ton of terminology that needs to be sorted out.

瞬间移动 - Flash Step
魔工師 - Magic Designer(?)
魔工技師 - Magic Artificer (?)
個別情報体 - Eidos
想子情報体 - Haha, yeah...
想子波動 - Psion Wave Motion (?)
想子波 - Psion Surge
FLT - Four Leaves Technology

I have 瞬间移动 down as Flash Step in Chapter 3. Not a particularly foreign term on either side of the Pacific, so let me know if someone prefers a more correct term.

I swear these two terms: 魔工師 and 魔工技師 are going to drive me up a wall. Why did the author have to have 4 different terms for Engineers/Technicians/etc. Why can't we just use a catch-all term! *RAGE* I tentatively suggest Magic Designer for 魔工師, given the context of in Chapter 3 where they introduce Taurus Silver as the genius who designed CADs. I'll be blunt, I hate my suggestion, but I can't think of anything better. And in regards to 魔工技師, I just know that sometime down the road, we're going to run into a situation where the text uses 技師, and we don't know if it's 魔工技師 or 魔技師. I like Magic Artificer though, gives the right vibes for something technologically proficient, but still requires a master craftsman.

Eidos was confirmed from other sources, and I've encountered the term applied in multiple languages, so I think that's a keeper.

As for 想子情報体... Ugh. I have it down as something like Psion Information Aide, a terrible direct translation that made sense in context.

FLT should totally be Faster Than Light travel. *SHOT* But yeah, since Four Leaves is essentially 四葉... Anyone following the series long enough would know what that refers to.

[seitsuki]

It's official.

魔工技師、あるいは魔工師は、魔法工学技師の略称で

魔工技師、as well as 魔工師, are abbreviations for 魔法工学技師. But of course we need three words for them anyway.Good luck making that work in English.

Maybe the author just hates us.

[Kadi]

魔法工学技師 - Magic Engineering Specialist
魔工技師 - Magic Engineer
魔工師 - Magic Engineer

Otherwise it'll be difficult to stay true to "abbreviation". E.g. I remember the manga translations using "artificer" but I now assume it's one of these.

Another idea is using Magineer or M-gineer for 魔工師. Or you keep 魔法工学技師 as it is now, Magic Engineer, and use Magineer/M-gineer for both abbreviations. However, you should only ever use one of Magineer and M-gineer, they are too similar.



Also, フォア・リーブス・テクノロジー (FLT) is "Four Leaves Technology"? It's not in the list yet...

[seitsuki]

FLT is pretty obvious. Don't think any fights are about to start over that anytime soon.

Magineer.. I like the sound of that. I used artificer for the manga since I hadn't read the bit in the LN yet and thought it was something different, but now I just don't care. Will take that idea thanks.

[Dreyakis]

轉譯 = Compiling (?)
重力制御型热核融合炉 = Gravity Control-Type Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor (?)

The Chinese translation has 轉譯 down as Compiling, which is supposedly a term out of information engineering. I, uh, am not one. Anyone have an idea if this is sustained or not?

重力制御型热核融合炉. Oh boy, this was fun, but somehow not insane. Most of the pieces seem to make sense, unless there's a vastly condensed version that flows better. My hesitation comes from two parts: 制御型 and 炉. I've searched through some Japanese research articles that suggest 制御型 = Control-Type, but seeing as I don't read Japanese, clarification would be appreciated. Now 炉 in any normal context would mean furnace, which would still work, except for the Fusion part. To me, Fusion Reactor sounds a lot more convincing than Fusion Furnace.

[Kadi]

The Chinese translation has 轉譯 down as Compiling, which is supposedly a term out of information engineering. I, uh, am not one. Anyone have an idea if this is sustained or not?

重力制御型热核融合炉. Oh boy, this was fun, but somehow not insane. Most of the pieces seem to make sense, unless there's a vastly condensed version that flows better. My hesitation comes from two parts: 制御型 and 炉. I've searched through some Japanese research articles that suggest 制御型 = Control-Type, but seeing as I don't read Japanese, clarification would be appreciated. Now 炉 in any normal context would mean furnace, which would still work, except for the Fusion part. To me, Fusion Reactor sounds a lot more convincing than Fusion Furnace.

Jap dictionary/Rikaichan says:
重力 Gravity
制御 Control
型 Type
热 whatever, not recognized
核融合炉 nuclear fusion reactor

So Gravity-controlled Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor sounds like a reasonable choice.

[Dreyakis]

Thanks Kadi.

I have two items that I need input on by the experts.

好奇知覺能力 = Inquisitive Sensory Ability (?)
鴨野 甲 (Need family name)

The first item is related to Mizuki's eyes (see context on page 156-7). Direct translation of 好奇 知覺 能力 cuts this down into Curiosity Sensory Ability, though I dislike using "Curiosity" as the first term, so I propose Inquisitive instead. At any rate, this is still a literal translation of the Chinese text, so any pithier form would be much appreciated.

The second term is a character's name before they changed it. The Names and Terminology Section for this novel has 甲 = Kinoe. For reasons mentioned in the novel, he originally had the last name 鴨野 (or at least that's how I assumed it was), but I am unable to decipher how that works in English. If someone could give me any pointers or (better yet) point me in the direction of a website that could do this, I would be greatly appreciative. Google search for Japanese-English name translations has... not worked out well for me.

[florza]

Can be found in the JP wiki @ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AD%94% ... 9%E7%94%9F

'鴨野' is read as Kamono. Also, the mother remarried.

[Dreyakis]

Can be found in the JP wiki @ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AD%94% ... 9%E7%94%9F

'鴨野' is read as Kamono. Also, the mother remarried.

Thank you very much. I know what happened to the character involved, I just didn't want to come out and say it in case someone browsing related threads stumbled onto the spoiler.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

轉譯 = Compiling (?)
重力制御型热核融合炉 = Gravity Control-Type Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor (?)

The Chinese translation has 轉譯 down as Compiling, which is supposedly a term out of information engineering. I, uh, am not one. Anyone have an idea if this is sustained or not?

重力制御型热核融合炉. Oh boy, this was fun, but somehow not insane. Most of the pieces seem to make sense, unless there's a vastly condensed version that flows better. My hesitation comes from two parts: 制御型 and 炉. I've searched through some Japanese research articles that suggest 制御型 = Control-Type, but seeing as I don't read Japanese, clarification would be appreciated. Now 炉 in any normal context would mean furnace, which would still work, except for the Fusion part. To me, Fusion Reactor sounds a lot more convincing than Fusion Furnace.

I interpreted that long one as Gravity-controlled Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor using machine translations (sorry, that's probably not useful), but if you read the section around it, it makes sense. It took me a good hour or so to read through that page or two of information, since I'm not knowledgeable in the language. Honestly speaking, I think it's good, seeing how the thing actually works. Coulombic Forces decrease the strain on the system, Gravity pulls the electrons to the center of the reaction, fueling it further. Not only did it take me all that time to read it, it took me about an additional hour to research the fusion reactor and coulomb stuff to make sure I wasn't making some grievous error, though I suppose it wasn't that important, since I only needed the gist of it to release a summary.

Here's the big block of text I have for that long ass presentation Suzune gives during the competition, again, Machine Translation and Web-Novel.

Spoiler! :

Half past two.
The First High School presentation began on schedule.
Suzune spoke, an alto without a single impurity spread throughout the conference hall.
Isora was next to her, operating the equipment, and Tatsuya monitored the situation and started the CAD.
“What do we need to put Nuclear Fusion to practical use? This has become much clearer over the last century.”
Suzune stood next to the large glass sphere.
Tatsuya activated the Magic Discharge System.
The moment Suzune put her hand to the access panel of the CAD, Deuterium gas enclosed in the glass ball formed into plasma, emitting a flash of light. A sparkling beauty painted inside the glass.
It was a showy presentation.
“First of all, the Deuterium fuel requires time to become plasma before it remains in that state. This issue is resolved via the Magic Discharge System.”
This part of the reaction had been demonstrated numerous times before, so in terms of impact, it was lacking.
“The main problem hindering the reaction is the repulsive forces of the electrons released when the gas is converted into plasma.”
The sphere emitted a flash of light in silence. A huge screen had now come down to the center of the stage.
“Our predecessors who attempted to put this to practical use with non-magical technology attempted to overcome that force by applying an equivalent amount of pressure.”
Simulations of the experiments performed in the early half of the century were displayed on the split-screen.
“However, with ultra-high-temperature reactions, no amount of stable pressure could be reached to counter this force. There are a variety of reasons for this. The durability of the container and the replenishment of the fuel are two such examples. Even if they succeeded in maintenance of the nuclear fusion, it was not practical due to the energy required to run the reaction. Regardless, all the problems come down to the fact that the resources for overcoming the electron repulsion forces was too large for the technology to be practical.”
The screen rose up.
Behind them, two large cylindrical electromagnets were suspended by four ropes, it seemed like a primitive experiment.
Isora began pulling up one of the magnets.
The magnet was vigorously swinging. The opposing magnet began swinging in the opposite direction.
“Though it may be unnecessary, I will explain this phenomenon. As repulsive electrical forces approach each other, the Coulombic force generated increases drastically.”
Suzune was wearing a headset to protect her ears. She stood next to the prototype machine which was swinging repeatedly, her left hand on the access panel.
That moment, a large roar sounded. Like two large cymbals continuously percussed, the sound echoed throughout the hall.
When Suzune lowered her hand, the electromagnets returned to silence.
“However, this electrical repulsion can be reduced by magic. We have succeeded in developing an Activation Ritual to reduce the Coulombic forces by a factor of one-hundred-thousand for a limited time.”
Suzune did not particularly raise her voice.
However, her words resounded loudly in the hall.
The main demonstration machine rose up to the stage from beneath.
If you looked at it, you might describe it as a large piston made from transparent materials.
From beneath, the piston was attached to a crank and flywheel.
At the top of the cylinder were two valves.
A transparent pipe extended, filling the inside of the tank with water.
“The Deuterium gas is transformed into plasma using this Magic Discharge System. At the same time, the Gravity Control Magic and Coulombic Force Control Magic are exercised simultaneously. The electrons released by the conversion are forced to remain within the system by using the Coulombic Force Control Magic. Using the Gravity Control Magic, those electrons are then forced further into the center to help fuel the fusion reaction. The time required for the nuclear fusion in this specific device is approximately one-tenth of a second. As you know, once it begins, the nuclear fusion reaction will continue automatically, but only as long as fuel is added from the outside. The Gravity Controlled Fusion System developed by our school uses this reaction property. Once the reaction stops, the Deuterium Gas cools using Vibration System Magic to the highest temperature the container can safely handle. The energy collected from the cooling gas can be appropriated to the Coulombic Force and Gravity Control Systems. The piston is drawn upwards by the adjacent Gravitational Field and continues moving upwards due to its initial inertia. Once the gas has cooled to the optimum temperature...”
After that description, Isora placed his hand on the access panel of the experimental machine.
Conversion to plasma, Coulombic Force Control, Gravity Control, Cooling, Energy Recovery, this loop continued dozens of times.
“Currently, a high ranking Magician is needed to run the machine and keep the experiment running. However, the magic required to inject the initial energy and recover the cooling energy can be initiated by anyone who is well versed in ignition-type magic. We are confident that a Gravity Controlled Nuclear Fusion Reactor can be achieved.”
Immediately after Suzune stopped speaking, the hall was wrapped in thunderous applause.

As for the terminology I used for other things in the summaries I released, I tried to remain consistent with what was on B-T before the project picked up more people. Anyway, here's what I used.

起動式 = Activation Sequence (The translation currently has this as Activation Ritual, I believe)
魔法式 = Activation Ritual (The translation currently has this as Magic Ritual, I believe. I prefer it as the translators used, since there is a lot less repetition of words, though it can get a bit confusing if only the word "Ritual" is used)
十師族 = Ten Families (I quite like this. Reference to individual families, using the Saegusa as an example, included Saegusa House/household, Saegusa Family, or Saegusa Clan. I used them interchangeably, changing it based on whether I had "House" or "Family" in the same sentence, mainly to avoid repetition.)
加速・加重 = Speed/Weight
移動・振動 = Movement/Vibration
収束・発散 = Convergence/Dissipation
吸収・放出 = Absorption/Dispersion (These are more just a stylistic issue, obviously.)
現代魔法 = Modern Magic
古式魔法 = Ancient Magic
系統魔法 = Systemic Magic
系統外魔法 = Non-Systemic Magic
無系統魔法 = External-Systemic Magic
知覚系魔法 = Perception-Systemic Magic
対抗魔法 = Anti-Magic (I tried to keep these consistent with what was posted on B-T originally, and for those that weren't, I tried to keep it consistent.)

Dreyakis, some ones you specifically addressed, since you are the main (only) translator currently
想子情報体 = Information Body (I took it literally as is from machine translation. Sorry, that's probably not helpful. I didn't think much about it not fitting, since magic is all about Event Modification and Information and what not)
魔法工学技師/魔工技師/魔工師 ==> Being unable to really tell the difference off the bat (mainly because I found some common terms and did a copy/paste when reading through the text so I wouldn't have to re-translate things hundreds of times when reading), I believe Magic Artificer (I like that term!), Magic Engineer, and Engineer would probably work for them. There hasn't really been any notice of Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical Engineers or anything like that in the series so far, so I think it's fine to shorten it to Engineer.
轉譯 seems like it would be fine as Compiling. Most engineers use some software to build models, and it's typically referred to as compiling or a similar term. I don't see a problem with you using it.

Anyway, hope I'm not out of line typing all this stuff up. I'm actually working on a 10 post count so I can PM stuff for Madan no Ou, and I hate contributing nothing. Also, I just noticed it's a good 2-3 weeks since this was last posted in, but it was a lot of work organizing this information, so please forgive me a bit

[denormative]

轉譯 seems like it would be fine as Compiling. Most engineers use some software to build models, and it's typically referred to as compiling or a similar term. I don't see a problem with you using it.

In software engineering "compiling" can considered to be a shorthand for turning a human (or at least programmer anyway...) readable, vaguely-english-like text into some form of faster executing 'machine code', that then can be 'run'/executed at a later date to create the desired effect (along, usually, with undesired side-effects known as 'bugs'). The term is actually much more generic then that, though it's used in that form probably 99.999% of the time; technically what you're doing, translating from chinese/japanese to english is also compiling, it's 'merely' done by the original definition of 'computers', rather then the modern silicon-computers we use today.

Anyway, in short, the word is pretty much correct as far as it's used from the summaries I remember reading. From reading the summaries it sounds like the guy has a pretty solid computers/engineering background so you can probably assume that any odd sounding computer/engineering terminology used in relation to magic is probably correct.

[Dreyakis]

轉譯 = Compiling (?)
重力制御型热核融合炉 = Gravity Control-Type Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor (?)

The Chinese translation has 轉譯 down as Compiling, which is supposedly a term out of information engineering. I, uh, am not one. Anyone have an idea if this is sustained or not?

重力制御型热核融合炉. Oh boy, this was fun, but somehow not insane. Most of the pieces seem to make sense, unless there's a vastly condensed version that flows better. My hesitation comes from two parts: 制御型 and 炉. I've searched through some Japanese research articles that suggest 制御型 = Control-Type, but seeing as I don't read Japanese, clarification would be appreciated. Now 炉 in any normal context would mean furnace, which would still work, except for the Fusion part. To me, Fusion Reactor sounds a lot more convincing than Fusion Furnace.

I interpreted that long one as Gravity-controlled Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor using machine translations (sorry, that's probably not useful), but if you read the section around it, it makes sense. It took me a good hour or so to read through that page or two of information, since I'm not knowledgeable in the language. Honestly speaking, I think it's good, seeing how the thing actually works. Coulombic Forces decrease the strain on the system, Gravity pulls the electrons to the center of the reaction, fueling it further. Not only did it take me all that time to read it, it took me about an additional hour to research the fusion reactor and coulomb stuff to make sure I wasn't making some grievous error, though I suppose it wasn't that important, since I only needed the gist of it to release a summary.

As for the terminology I used for other things in the summaries I released, I tried to remain consistent with what was on B-T before the project picked up more people. Anyway, here's what I used.

起動式 = Activation Sequence (The translation currently has this as Activation Ritual, I believe)
魔法式 = Activation Ritual (The translation currently has this as Magic Ritual, I believe. I prefer it as the translators used, since there is a lot less repetition of words, though it can get a bit confusing if only the word "Ritual" is used)
十師族 = Ten Families (I quite like this. Reference to individual families, using the Saegusa as an example, included Saegusa House/household, Saegusa Family, or Saegusa Clan. I used them interchangeably, changing it based on whether I had "House" or "Family" in the same sentence, mainly to avoid repetition.)
加速・加重 = Speed/Weight
移動・振動 = Movement/Vibration
収束・発散 = Convergence/Dissipation
吸収・放出 = Absorption/Dispersion (These are more just a stylistic issue, obviously.)
現代魔法 = Modern Magic
古式魔法 = Ancient Magic
系統魔法 = Systemic Magic
系統外魔法 = Non-Systemic Magic
無系統魔法 = External-Systemic Magic
知覚系魔法 = Perception-Systemic Magic
対抗魔法 = Anti-Magic (I tried to keep these consistent with what was posted on B-T originally, and for those that weren't, I tried to keep it consistent.)

Dreyakis, some ones you specifically addressed, since you are the main (only) translator currently
想子情報体 = Information Body (I took it literally as is from machine translation. Sorry, that's probably not helpful. I didn't think much about it not fitting, since magic is all about Event Modification and Information and what not)
魔法工学技師/魔工技師/魔工師 ==> Being unable to really tell the difference off the bat (mainly because I found some common terms and did a copy/paste when reading through the text so I wouldn't have to re-translate things hundreds of times when reading), I believe Magic Artificer (I like that term!), Magic Engineer, and Engineer would probably work for them. There hasn't really been any notice of Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical Engineers or anything like that in the series so far, so I think it's fine to shorten it to Engineer.
轉譯 seems like it would be fine as Compiling. Most engineers use some software to build models, and it's typically referred to as compiling or a similar term. I don't see a problem with you using it.

Anyway, hope I'm not out of line typing all this stuff up. I'm actually working on a 10 post count so I can PM stuff for Madan no Ou, and I hate contributing nothing. Also, I just noticed it's a good 2-3 weeks since this was last posted in, but it was a lot of work organizing this information, so please forgive me a bit

I have been using Sequence in place of Ritual since I started working on this series. If I recall correctly, larenthian and company also use Sequence for the manga translations. Larenthian also has 十師族 has Ten Master Clans, though I typically use Saegusa Family (for example) in actual text as it flows better in English. Your machine translation of 想子情報体 is very close to my take: Psion Information Body, since I ran into the same issue, AKA there's probably a pithier name out there, but until notified otherwise, I'm going with this. Otherwise, I think our terms mirror each other quite well.

By the way, don't worry about being out of line or that nonsense. Discussing translations is important for improving the translation quality after all. I'll take whatever help you can offer and likely thank you for it. Actually, let me do that now. Thank you and keep 'em coming.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

I have been using Sequence in place of Ritual since I started working on this series. If I recall correctly, larenthian and company also use Sequence for the manga translations. Larenthian also has 十師族 has Ten Master Clans, though I typically use Saegusa Family (for example) in actual text as it flows better in English. Your machine translation of 想子情報体 is very close to my take: Psion Information Body, since I ran into the same issue, AKA there's probably a pithier name out there, but until notified otherwise, I'm going with this. Otherwise, I think our terms mirror each other quite well.

By the way, don't worry about being out of line or that nonsense. Discussing translations is important for improving the translation quality after all. I'll take whatever help you can offer and likely thank you for it. Actually, let me do that now. Thank you and keep 'em coming.

Thanks for that. By the way, thanks for the good work on the translations. I can never think of good words to use, since my vocabulary, while not particularly limited, does not seem terribly accessible

[MiY4Gi]

I've been looking over Vol 2 Chap 6, and I came across the following statement in Tatsuya's explanation of his Cast Jamming magic:

“To be precise, it’s not Cast Jamming. What I used is a practical application of Cast Jamming, ‘Specific Magic Jamming’.”

I found the phrase "Specific Magic Jamming" to be a little ambiguous/confusing. Is it saying that the jamming is specific to magic, or is it saying that it's a specific type of magic-jamming, or is it saying that it's jamming which targets specific types of magic?

If it's the last one, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it "Selective Magic Jamming"? I've been reading through the rest of Tatsuya's explanation, and he doesn't really mention anything which would clarify why his application of Cast Jamming should be called "Specific Magic Jamming"? What is the literal translation from the source material?

Any ideas?