Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

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Niflheim
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Niflheim »

Shtirliz74 wrote:
NewAgeOfPower wrote:Man, Tatsuya's female resist is like over 9000. He's constantly in the presence of a large harem of extremely good looking girls with great personalities, and yet he doesn't react a single bit.
Isn't it because he emotionless?
Either he hasnt read this LN series and is just messing around, or I don't know really :?
How Tatsuya "works" is well described at the end of Vol 3. Chapter 2, no chance to miss it really or room to missunderstand it either.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Gohankuten »

Shtirliz74 wrote:
NewAgeOfPower wrote:Man, Tatsuya's female resist is like over 9000. He's constantly in the presence of a large harem of extremely good looking girls with great personalities, and yet he doesn't react a single bit.
Isn't it because he emotionless?
Nah it's because he only needs her highness Miyuki and no other girl can compete with Miyuki.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by NewAgeOfPower »

Niflheim wrote:
Either he hasnt read this LN series and is just messing around, or I don't know really :?
How Tatsuya "works" is well described at the end of Vol 3. Chapter 2, no chance to miss it really or room to missunderstand it either.
There isn't any room to misunderstand. His emotional center was reformatted to an artificial magical calculation area. Everything but his love for his imouto is gone- or so he thinks.

That's the joke...
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As death to the mortal, so failure to the immortal.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by gradient »

NewAgeOfPower wrote:
Niflheim wrote:
Either he hasnt read this LN series and is just messing around, or I don't know really :?
How Tatsuya "works" is well described at the end of Vol 3. Chapter 2, no chance to miss it really or room to missunderstand it either.
There isn't any room to misunderstand. His emotional center was reformatted to an artificial magical calculation area. Everything but his love for his imouto is gone- or so he thinks.

That's the joke...
uh... not all emotions just the strong ones
Vol.8 Ch14 wrote:"No, rather than saying emotions it may be better to say urges. Strong anger, deep sorrow, intense jealousy, grudges, hatred, hungering appetite, sexual lust, blind love. Such ‘beside oneself’ impulses were lost, with one single exception, and in exchange Tatsuya obtained the ability to use magic."
and i think even those are present as long as Miyuki is involved.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Niflheim »

NewAgeOfPower wrote: There isn't any room to misunderstand. His emotional center was reformatted to an artificial magical calculation area. Everything but his love for his imouto is gone- or so he thinks.

That's the joke...
It isn't a question of him thinking anything. Miya clearly states they were simply lost as a result of the magic operation, and then it wasn't the emotions per say just the strong urges.
Vol.8 Ch.14 wrote:"No, rather than saying emotions it may be better to say urges."
That is already told in Vol.3 Ch.2 as part of his own thoughts, he is well aware of his own situation.
He gives a more simplistic explanation in Vol.5 'Summer break' to Honoka as well.

I just can't see the joke in your original post that is all, besides the best before date on the 'Over 9000' meme was years ago.
gradient wrote: and i think even those are present as long as Miyuki is involved.
If you read further down from your quote Maya speaks of his only true emotion he got left, brotherly love. I guess it boils down to what each and everyone attach to that rather
diffuse description of his last emotion. What we do know is that it produces decent anger with in him and close to blind rage as well.

***
As this seem to have spun a tad OT I'm going to bow out and let the thread sail back to it's original purpose ^_^
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by yttam50 »

In my opinion, the loss of his emotions (except his love for Miyuki) has made him a sociopath http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath. Plus I don't think that his love for Miyuki triggers other strong emotions like rage as he once thought that it was "only natural to kill anyone who tried to hurt Mikuki" and he reached this conclusion through logic - albeit his own abnormal logic.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by crisisavatar »

He's no sociopath, insult to the character due to usual nasty connotation.

What they did to him affects him in that he can't have extreme emotions, doesn't mean he lacks them.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by NewAgeOfPower »

Under the strict definition of a sociopath... Tatsuya is definitely a sociopath.

Being a sociopath oft is better than being normal. And it's not like he's the axe-murderer type- unless you threaten Miyuki. Then he's going to turn you into a pancake, bake it, heal you to keep you alive, then feed it to a bunch of starving dogs.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Dreyakis »

That's simply ridiculous. Tatsuya fits neither the condition for a psychopath or a sociopath. In order for him to qualify for either/or, he would require a combination of the following:

1) Manifested amoral or antisocial behavior
2) Lack of ability to feel love or establish meaningful relationships
3) Extremely egocentric
4) Inability to learn from previous mistakes
5) Lacking in moral responsibility or social conscience

And debunked in order:

1) Tatsuya is not inherently amoral or exhibit antisocial behavior, by which I mean that he does not choose the illegal and foul means as his first reaction. Generally, he is a law-abiding citizen content to remain beneath the radar. I would argue that his only "heinous" acts were committed against villainous targets: No-Head Dragon.
2) I should just let Seitsuki handle this one, but I'll oblige. Tatsuya clearly feels affection for Miyuki and has grown as a person since he managed to establish meaningful friendships that he doesn't want to lose with people around him. Even in the recent vampire arc, Tatsuya felt inclined to intervene on the incident because Leo had gotten injured and Mikihiko/Erika were in danger.
3) Tatsuya is the antithesis of being egocentric. He has such poor self-esteem that he doesn't view himself as the center of anything, despite what other people (Miyuki) try to tell him. The only thing that comes close is his lethargy when it comes to dealing with things he doesn't perceive to affect him, but even that's a stretch.
4) If he were unable to learn from his mistakes, Tatsuya would never have grown to become Mr. Silver, Yakumo's prized disciple, or the ace in the 101st Independent Magic-Equipped Battalion.
5) As mentioned above, Tatsuya only bestirs himself when he feels that his life is being encroached upon, but again, based on his willingness to involve himself because he felt that he was responsible for not nipping the vampire incident in the bud, thus causing Leo's injury, he feels responsible for the situation.

tl;dr Tatsuya does not fulfill the clinical or casual definition of sociopaths/psychopaths. Please be more careful about slinging those terms around without further contemplation.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Ulrick »

Quite the explanation. Thank You, Dreyakis.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Niflheim »

This took a turn for the worst, big leaps from lacking urges to being a psychopath or a sociopath. So I guess I'll pitch in and add to Dreyakis debunks.

1) Even if one can see some of the signs for anti-social behaviour in him, these are simply born out of his need to hide his powers as well as his and Miyuki's real identities. When you get past that, since it is a valid explaination for his actions, he is as law-abiding as they come. Add what he has done as Silver for the magical community makes him show a more pro-social behaviour then anything else.

2) With his only genuine feeling left being the love for his sister I'd say we knocked that out nice and easy. It may not be romantic love, but it is still a form of love. Other than towards Miyuki he do show some sort of affection towards a few of the other female characters in his own quirky way.

Despite how much of a dunce he is he is extreamly capable on the relationship front. He got several close friends for whom he goes above and beyond when needed. He got close relations to several seniors. He bridged the gap between himself and several female course 1 students during the Nine Schools Competition. Then you got the work enviorment at FLT's CAD Development 3rd Division that is more homely then anything else in nature.

3) He doesnt fit the bill for egocentrism or egocentrism in adolescence. His level of work as Silver, and general level of researchers know how, negates general egocentrism since he is fully capable to understand and cope with other peoples opinions. Even with him self-deprecating himself left, right, front and center it doesnt skew his vision on reality or make him unable to work in society, this goes against egocentrism in adolesence.

4) Nothing to really add to what Dreyakis said here.

5) Not going to touch the morality issue with him that much, since the values seem to be a bit off here and there in this world and we would enter the world of ethics essentially. One thing though is that he doesnt lack moral responsibility. He frequently give praise, rewards and punishment to acts according to his moral obligation. The most obvious to this is when something threatens his person, Miyuki or his close friends.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Breakers »

Dreyakis wrote: 3) Tatsuya is the antithesis of being egocentric. He has such poor self-esteem that he doesn't view himself as the center of anything, despite what other people (Miyuki) try to tell him. The only thing that comes close is his lethargy when it comes to dealing with things he doesn't perceive to affect him, but even that's a stretch.
i don't know if he is egocentric. but i think he just doesn't want to involve himself with other people issue or problem.
even maybe he won't help other people if his sister is not involve in it.

for example, in nine school competition arc.
maybe he won't help anyone in the bus accident if his sister in not inside the bus. ( he used gram demolition )

he just simply doesn't care with other people.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by yttam50 »

ok I didn't mean that in any derogatory way, I was just trying to categorize Tatsuya's psyche, since I like psychology, and apologize if any one took my comment the wrong way.
And thank you Dreyakis and Niflheim for pointing out where I was wrong.
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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by DarkDooM »

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Re: Mahouka - Visitor Arc : Volumes 9, 10 & 11

Post by Niflheim »

yare yare

Thought it was pretty common knowledge these days to take all deadlines on fan translations with a pinch of salt. It is done when it is done. Pretty sure pics like that ain't appreciated/allowed on the forum in general either.
Riso raknar, rann álfraudull, nordr at niflheim
nióla sótti; upp nam ár Giöll Úlfrúnar nidr,
hornþytvalldr Himinbiarga

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