Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoilers)

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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Ulrick » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:55 am

Volume 8 wrote: his power was helpless to turn back the clock of life

here is for you.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby bunnybacon » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:03 am

I am not talking about someone who has already died.
I mean strictly from the standpoint of old age. Scientifically (I say that to exclude "lifeforce"), our bodies deteriorate over time. This is because our immune systems become slower, our skin less vibrant and thus weaker at blocking sun exposure, etc. With this in mind, couldn't he continually revert his body back 1 day, thereby retaining the vibrancy of his cells and body structure?
Whats stopping him from doing this?
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Ulrick » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:51 am

That means that his magic can't stop aging, Honami was still alive and was even able to talk when tatsuya realised this. So, it's useless. It can revert back from event from outside the body (hurt by bullet and so...), but aging can't be stopped.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby abbad0n » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:32 pm

Yeah, I brought up something like this too and got shot down. :(

I think it's the difference between a slow (very very slow) burn - could also be called slow rusting or rot :lol: - which Tatsuya can't fix, and anything causing faster damage which Regrowth can work on.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Guest2 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:05 pm

There is also the fact that he would reduce his lifespan and may die early like his mother, if he continually used such powerful magic that often.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby TheLaG » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:40 am

Guest2 wrote:There is also the fact that he would reduce his lifespan and may die early like his mother, if he continually used such powerful magic that often.



I don't think it's really that simple, from what I understood from previous chapters, If you overuse magic (like Mayas and Miyas Father in Untouchable) then you can die, but if you not go beyond limit, you will be fine with enough rest :) Also, nobody knows how big is Tatsuyas limit :)
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby v-die » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:31 am

TheLaG wrote:I don't think it's really that simple, from what I understood from previous chapters, If you overuse magic (like Mayas and Miyas Father in Untouchable) then you can die, but if you not go beyond limit, you will be fine with enough rest :)

I also did get the same impression, it also lines up with Honami's death as she obviously overused her magic to shield them from the barrage
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby sutan » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:05 am

so His Regrowth magic can't help him restore his stamina or something like that ?
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Guest2 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:54 pm

It seems it is that simple. Its what happened to his mother. She got lots of rest while being hospitalized and still remained very weak despite having no problems with her body, and then died. But you are right that we do not know his limits. He could last 50 years longer or just 1. But it is a certainty he would be weaker since powerful magic burdens one's lifeforce and soul like in his mother's case.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby TheLaG » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:24 am

Guest2 wrote:It seems it is that simple. Its what happened to his mother. She got lots of rest while being hospitalized and still remained very weak despite having no problems with her body, and then died. But you are right that we do not know his limits. He could last 50 years longer or just 1. But it is a certainty he would be weaker since powerful magic burdens one's lifeforce and soul like in his mother's case.



You are incorrect, largely his mother was affected already after she altered her sisters memories. Next big overuse was operation on Tatsuya, so she clearly overused her magic. But Tatsuya doesn't look like he is having problems with magic, there are few exceptions on when he restores people, but it's not burden on magic abilities, much more on mind itself. So until he will use a lot of magic at the same time, he is not in danger, and considering his type of magic, he really need A LOT to break him :wink:
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby crisisavatar » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:20 am

His mother was fine after doing her sister and doing him couldn't have been that much tougher. What happened to her was that she basically burned herself out trying to learn how to undo what she did to Maya.

Also lol I couldn't be more worried about Tatsuya's limit, sure he makes everything go "poof" but he has to analyze the structure to the bone. I dread the day the author decides to put him in an scenario where he succumbs to this, cheapest possible fate for the character in my mind

Also no idea where you are all getting this idea that powerful magic = toxic to the user, Miyuki is the biggest walking powerful magic showcase and that's just training for her, Mr. Brother would have said something by now if there was a problem, trust me.

Correct formulas:

You use too much magic = you kick the bucket
High complexity = more taxing = arrive at limit quicker

Real question is how Tatsuya's special modifications help against this limit. Chick who died helping him ( lousy limit ) I'm sure had some modifications but I don't think is anywhere near as much as him, they went all out on him. There is also the fact that Tatsuya has a world class bloodline, that is a big factor.

Writing that a possible inconsistency comes to mind and that is with the blood prince. I remember him fighting and getting to the point where he was running on fumes but yeah this subject never came there so hmm, whatever needs to happen to make a good story I suppose ? Could be said that the best bloodlines do well against extremes but fall when abusing magic over long periods of times, idk; the correct answer is what the author decides it is at the end of the day and these rules aren't set in stone yet.

PS. Tatsuya should be able to keep himself and sis immortal in theory by just refreshing the 2 of them daily but that would mean they both lose memories of those last 24 hours.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby gradient » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:24 am

crisisavatar wrote:PS. Tatsuya should be able to keep himself and sis immortal in theory by just refreshing the 2 of them daily but that would mean they both lose memories of those last 24 hours.

um... idk if you read vol 7 but they don't forget what happened to them even if Tatsuya heals them i don't see why they would if he rewound the day.

also i think the bigest problem whit this theory is that why theoretically he could live forever with this it puts a heavy burden on the mind (and soul if you believe in such), i'm talking emotional burden. and while one can argue that Tatsuya does not have emotions it would still be a problem to stay young when all of your friends have already died.

also if Miyuki ever wanted children, at least for the time of pregnacy they would have to stop with it.
The quantity and quality does not matter... make it big, and make plenty of it.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Intution » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:41 am

Ehm, guys? Aren't you mistaking about the nature of his "Regrowth" magic? He does not turn back time. Neither does it affect the memory or experience they already have gone through. It also does not affect emotions. Stress and other things that weights on someones mind cannot be restored as well - like excessive use of magic. Or a trauma that may remain being shot even though his body got restored. Ah, anyway, this is - after all - probalby wrong. At least, it hasn't been completly confirmed yet. Though it has been said, that Regrowth will not interact with the mind (i think?! not sure anymore).

Now let's go to the point as to why he cannot stop the aging proccess. You can view it as something like this.

Well, Let's start with a bit of "Time" also called "aging process".

--------------

A line made of "---". Just see one "-" as one second, okay?
Now the injury appears.

--------------x

Yes. "x" shows you the injury. Some time flies by before Tatsuya appears and uses his "Regrowth" magic.

-------------*-*x------------------------------<>

Current time is now here at "<>" when tatsuya appears and uses his magic ("<" Proccess of him using Regrowth magic. ">" Seeing the change. while both of them together means that time also continues and this proccess happens at that very second!). Tatsuya reviews the eidos back to the second before the injury occurred (the one "-" between the stars *) , copies the state before the injury happened and rewrites the "x"- making the line look like this.

---------------------------------------------<>----------

Now it bocomes like what Miyuki said in Volume 7 Chapter 12. The truth that the injury happened has been erased. Yet the time/aging process has not been stopped. But this still doesn't explain why that is the case. ...Now to the more interesting part. Let's go further into detail.

-------------*--*-----------------------------<>---------

Both of them are from the very same second! Meaning they are now one second short. This speaks for immortality. But the fact that it'll create a void yet the experience/memory remains means - that the world recognizes that it has been deceived. It'll create a misconception that "time" no, only "aging process" has been messed with instead. which - of course - will be furcefully restored by the restorative power of the eidos. This way, it will always reconnect the "aging process".

-------------*-*"-"---------------------------<>---------

*-* = the second he used to copy - before the injury happened
"-" = the duplicated second being restored by the restorative power of the eidos - still remains in a state of no injury.

You could also say that this natural phenomenon was caused by him using his "Regrowth" magic. Like his aunt. Who creates a natural phenomenon by using her magic. Edit - Instead of saying "natural phenomenom", i should have said "side effekt"...probably. Don't think it can still be considered a natural phenomenom.

Seriously complicated. He truly only erased the truth of the injury and explains why he cannot stop the aging.
But i am confident about this - no, my - theory. It is flawed. Yes. But... i believe in it's validity/rightness/accuracy (which word suits it better!?).
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby larethian » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:14 pm

For the record, using restoration to stop physical aging irrespective of not being able to prevent death by age is kind of debatable. What defines appearance, stamina, strength? The respective cells of the respective tissues right? It is said that differentiated cells have limited number of divisions in their lifetime. Go figure.
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Re: Mahouka Character Discussion: Shiba Tatsuya (bunko spoil

Postby Tsaimath » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:20 am

After reading this thread I wanted to calculate about how powerfull Tatsuya is, especially his Decomposition.
I assume that he can freely choose the level of decomposition, so it's up to him weather he breaks something in it's parts (often seen with guns), it's molecules (seen with humans, a tank in v7 and so on) or energy (Material Burst)
The biggest object decomposed so far would be the tank in v7 with a weight of 30tons =30000 kg
It is said that Material Burst uses the Einstein-Equation so it would be direclty mass -> energy with a simple factor
The ~1kg Flag decomposed in v7 results in an explosion equaling 20 000 000 tons TNT = 20 MT
So the tank would result in an explosion equaling 20 MT * 30000 = 600000 MT

According to wikipedia the strongest nuke ever detonated (Tsar-Bomb) had an output of 50 MT so Tatsuya would be 12 000 times stronger or another comparison would be the eruption of "La Garita Caldera" which had an energy output equaling 240 000 MT

And now I think it is obvious why the Yotsuba-Family is afraid of him, they tortured him (see v5) and are propably aware of the fact that he is able to destroy the world. One could guess that this was part of the reason to wipe out his emotions so he would never lose himself in rage and do something veeery stupid (think of the Dragon in "The Wheel of Time")
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