Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

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Would you like to see cover illustrations on the project page?

Yes.
177
84%
No.
33
16%
 
Total votes: 210

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Niflheim
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Niflheim »

For me it wouldnt, it would rid the world of that horrible block of white right of vol 2 :P
Would even be better if you could get 3 vol side by side, though I suspect ch titles take to much space.
But I mean, what looks good is highly subjective in the end.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by hypernova »

Niflheim wrote:With all due respect (right back at you) I've voted 4 times in it, thats how accurate it is. How I did that? As a guest from multiple computers, and the usual login vote. So I would honestly not take it for more than a hint as to what people wanted. Lets also overlook the like 25 new votes that happend the past 3 days because the thread was bumped up.


And I by no mean disagree with you on that, am I? So the hint is that people want them back, either by the vote count or by the posts discussed about them. I'm just saying that bringing them back the old way should be ok since we have a hint that people want them back. Larethian also said that he won't do it himself so I think someone else did it is ok while we wait for Larethian's new solution. Now I disagree with that solution, but that is another issue.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Niflheim »

He also said this nearly a month ago.
larethian wrote:I've thought of a way to do this properly, I'll implement it at another date.

Hence why the past few days activity in this thread has been a bit about an already resolved issue.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by cautr »

Niflheim wrote:For me it wouldnt, it would rid the world of that horrible block of white right of vol 2 :P
Would even be better if you could get 3 vol side by side, though I suspect ch titles take to much space.
But I mean, what looks good is highly subjective in the end.


Plus, it'd be pretty resolution-dependend, if you fill out 1080p. :D Any less and the format would snap due to the volumes being an odd number, I think. It might be fixable with more complex code, but why bother if it works, amirite? Haha. Oh well, just wanted to give you guys something like a solution, so you all get along again. Now hug each other and be proud to have TL'ed such a load of text.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Niflheim »

I got good monitors, I'm all set ;)
Tbh I wouldnt mind your little thing in ths corner of the world, it would reduce the scrolling if anything.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by hypernova »

Niflheim wrote:He also said this nearly a month ago.
larethian wrote:I've thought of a way to do this properly, I'll implement it at another date.

Hence why the past few days activity in this thread has been a bit about an already resolved issue.


I just think that, given the vote result and posts as hints, it is ok to revert to having covers while waiting for the new solution to be implimented.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Gohankuten »

Niflheim wrote:Gohan, I think he was making a suggestion and not actually going there and puting it into practice. Could be wrong but thats how it looked to me after larethian said what he wanted to do with it.

While that doesn't look to bad cautr, if it were aligned in the center it would be splendid :)

Actually if you go and check the change logs for the Mahouka page you would see I had to go in and revert the change he made cause he went in an put the covers in on his own.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by iamadooddood »

Gohankuten wrote:Dude don't just go an add the covers back on your own. Larethian is the project lead for Mahouka and thus is the only one allowed to put in place the covers. You may not like the way Lar implements it but that is what discussion on this thread is for.

See here.
larethian wrote:Well I don't want to be a dictator. If everyone wants it back, let it be so (I'm not going to do the work though). I was just trying to think of what's best for the project. Mou shiranai ssu.
He said earlier that it was OK for the covers to be added back, just that he wouldn't be the one doing it, which contradicts what you're saying. I even quoted that post in an earlier post of mine.

cautr wrote:Hey, pardon my intrusion, regarding the "freaking ugly on widescreen"-problem:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Oda_Nobuna_no_Yabou_%28Deutsch%29

The lines can be removed, just a stylish tick of mine. Maybe this helps in a way? Well, regarding the spoilers: True for volumes that are ahead of you. Then again, they could spoiler you in a book store as well. Just wanted to drop the link for the code. If you guys do not like it either, it won't offend me. :wink:

EDIT: Ah, regarding the spoilering: Why not put each volume into a separated spoiler, then? Dunno if this reduces loading times on mobiles, though. Or rather, don't know if the items inside a spoiler are loaded with the page or only on expanding the spoiler.

Putting it at the right looks nicer. Honestly speaking, this format looks ugly on my widescreen. (Then again, that's just my opinion; seems like most people here say putting it on the right makes it looks ugly.)

Considering that screens have different sizes and resolutions, we need a solution that fits all screen sizes. This one clearly doesn't.

cautr wrote:
Niflheim wrote:While that doesn't look to bad cautr, if it were aligned in the center it would be splendid :)


What exactly should be centered? If you center both volumes that are getting displayed next to each other, it'd look odd in comparisson to everything else on the page being left-sided, wouldn't it? Anyways, it's just a simple <center> command to center them.

EDIT: Also: The spoiler-function can be edited in a way, which combines my display of volumes (So next to each other, cover near the chapters) and, well, the spoiler-function itself. So you could expand the spoiler with the volume display I use. The bandwith aside I don't see, how this would collide with any of the opinions here. No covers right on start-up, but when you click on the spoiler, it's nice and tidy up there.

I'm against covers alone being discriminated against, but this is a good idea. Now this would make things even less cluttered.

Some projects have the names of individual chapters included in there too. If a cover page could contain spoilers, more so for chapter names.

Only thing we need now is a show/hide all button like we have for TV Tropes, for those who want to see the page in its entirety.

Niflheim wrote:He also said this nearly a month ago.
larethian wrote:I've thought of a way to do this properly, I'll implement it at another date.

Hence why the past few days activity in this thread has been a bit about an already resolved issue.

Considering this post of his and the one before it, I took that to be that you can put the covers back for now, at least until he implements this new solution.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by larethian »

iamadooddood wrote:
Niflheim wrote:I'm fairly sure you are free to translate what is not picked by another translator in december if that is your desire to do so.

Sweet.

larethian wrote:I want the covers to be put in a separate sub-section that is collapsable (and collapsed by default) rather than beside each volume.

I still don't get why you insist on hiding the covers, but if you must, then...

I remember some wikis have codes for collapsible spoiler sections, if that helps. In fact, I saw one once on the Chinese Wikipedia before, but it's gone now. Though I don't know how or where to find the codes. Or whether BT has them or not, or if it doesn't, whether they can be implemented.

EDIT: I found what the code was (shown below), but Wikipedia no longer uses spoilers, so it was kind of hard to find.

{{HideH|Spoiler description}}

Spoilered stuff

{{HideF}}


On a side note: I'll say that having covers on the project page has almost become the norm here to many readers on BT. They have been around long before I even knew of BT's existence; many of the LNs here already had them when I first came here. Naturally, you initially wanting to remove them from the project page on grounds of risk of spoilers (a reason I'd call a "wait, what?" reason) have shocked all who take these covers for granted, so please don't take it to heart.

Because someone added the Double Seven magazine scan as unofficial cover which greatly pisses me. People start discussing about the cover and I got spoiled before I read it (I deleted those posts before it got out of hand). Blame that guy who did it if you will.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Niflheim »

Gohankuten wrote:Actually if you go and check the change logs for the Mahouka page you would see I had to go in and revert the change he made cause he went in an put the covers in on his own.

I don't have an account for the wiki, for various reasons so I wouldnt know. Why I went by what it sounded like he did. If he went and did that I can think of some less nice words to use.
hypernova wrote:I just think that, given the vote result and posts as hints, it is ok to revert to having covers while waiting for the new solution to be implimented.

So as long as you get a few covers back asap to oggle you are okay despite it being extra work on the part of the one meant doing it.
iamadooddood wrote:Considering this post of his and the one before it, I took that to be that you can put the covers back for now, at least until he implements this new solution.

So you just choose to ignore the actual content of the latest posts of his, the one you should have listen too.

I've said this before, but seems it needs to be said again. All anyone had to do was sit and wait and the covers would have come back, patiences is a virtue. I'm genuinely curious as how it can seem you have the patience to wait for translations but can't extent that patience towards this. It baffles me really. I thought that it would itch more waiting for the next chapter rather then not seing thoes cover pics you already seen and would only add a bit of aesthetic value to the wiki.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by larethian »

You can put them back, but if possible, use a separate collapsable (wiki extension already installed) sub-section for it. Do not use magazine scans.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by iamadooddood »

larethian wrote:Because someone added the Double Seven magazine scan as unofficial cover which greatly pisses me. People start discussing about the cover and I got spoiled before I read it (I deleted those posts before it got out of hand). Blame that guy who did it if you will.

That changes the scope of this argument.

It's no longer about whether covers spoil. It's about what counts as legit covers on the project page, because there's no such policy concerning this on BT. As in, what constitutes a volume cover, and what doesn't.

So far on BT, I've only seen actual LN bunkobon covers used as volume covers (other than that Double Seven scan). As far as I'm concerned, that magazine scan does not count as a volume cover, because you can't really call that magazine a volume. Only covers of bunkobon should count as volume covers, because, well, light novel volumes come in bunkobon format? (Interestingly, some Chinese translated LN sites have no problems with putting those too, for some reason. Yes, magazine scans as volume covers. And no one there complains of them being spoilers lol. Not that I do either; the reason why IMO they don't belong on the project page is because they aren't volume covers, not because they spoil stuff. But looking back, seems like some of them do spoil stuff.)

But as to volume covers themselves, there's no reason to remove them from the project page.

Niflheim wrote:So you just choose to ignore the actual content of the latest posts of his, the one you should have listen too.

I've said this before, but seems it needs to be said again. All anyone had to do was sit and wait and the covers would have come back, patiences is a virtue. I'm genuinely curious as how it can seem you have the patience to wait for translations but can't extent that patience towards this. It baffles me really. I thought that it would itch more waiting for the next chapter rather then not seing thoes cover pics you already seen and would only add a bit of aesthetic value to the wiki.

Read again. His latest posts had nothing to do with whether it was OK to put back the covers. (Other than the latest latest one.)

I'm fine with waiting now that he's stated his plan, but that's a different matter altogether. It may seem that I don't have patience, but depending on the outcome of this, it may potentially end up affecting the whole BT.
Last edited by iamadooddood on Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by larethian »

iamadooddood wrote:
larethian wrote:Because someone added the Double Seven magazine scan as unofficial cover which greatly pisses me. People start discussing about the cover and I got spoiled before I read it (I deleted those posts before it got out of hand). Blame that guy who did it if you will.

That changes the scope of this argument.

It's no longer about whether covers spoil. It's about what counts as legit covers on the project page, because there's no such policy concerning this on BT. As in, what constitutes a volume cover, and what doesn't.

So far (other than that Double Seven scan), I've only seen actual LN bunkobon covers used as volume covers. As far as I'm concerned, that magazine scan does not count as a volume cover, because you can't really call that magazine a volume. Only covers of bunkobon should count as volume covers, because, well, light novel volumes come in bunkobon format? (Interestingly, some Chinese translated LN sites have no problems with putting those too, for some reason. Yes, magazine scans as volume covers. And no one there complains of them being spoilers lol.)

But as to volume covers themselves, there's no reason to remove them from the project page.

Niflheim wrote:So you just choose to ignore the actual content of the latest posts of his, the one you should have listen too.

I've said this before, but seems it needs to be said again. All anyone had to do was sit and wait and the covers would have come back, patiences is a virtue. I'm genuinely curious as how it can seem you have the patience to wait for translations but can't extent that patience towards this. It baffles me really. I thought that it would itch more waiting for the next chapter rather then not seing thoes cover pics you already seen and would only add a bit of aesthetic value to the wiki.

Read again. His latest posts had nothing to do with whether it was OK to put back the covers. (Other than the latest latest one.)

Just letting you know, I just read your posts properly since I had been really too busy to do that. The way you are going about adamantly asking for the covers to be put back and your manner of debating really piss me off. More and more old staff had given up on BT because of the way many new people (some even with translator/senior translator/editor tags which I feel are undeserving) are trying to 'run' things here without asking, going through the right channel, or be nice about their requests (one of the greatest loss being Vaelis). Each project has its own staff and space. You see how I ask rpapo for his blessing before I start working on Golden Time? I don't go about getting involved in a project which someone already took ownership in without getting his blessing. Not that I'm going to do anything to you or stop you from putting back the covers. I tried too hard to keep things proper and in line in many areas here but with less and less support from the old staff, I feel like washing my hands off things here.

I'll just avoid the popular projects and focus on niche stuff. You guys can do whatever you want.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by cautr »

iamadooddood wrote:Considering that screens have different sizes and resolutions, we need a solution that fits all screen sizes. This one clearly doesn't.


Well, at least at my side, the volumes go into a vertical line, if the resolution is too small for both of them being displayed besides each other. I can't think of a resolution that is common and would trash the display of even one volume. But with the current code three would not work, that's right. That's due to the code relying on an even number of volumes in one "bubble", which are two in that example.


larethian wrote:I'll just avoid the popular projects and focus on niche stuff. You guys can do whatever you want.


Then I guess he should be scolded for doing so.

larethian wrote:Because someone added the Double Seven magazine scan as unofficial cover which greatly pisses me.


Seriously sad that it comes down to this. Also I can imagine that older staff just got older and retired. But who am I to say that, you're in to that more.
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Re: Removal of covers from Mahouka project page

Post by Niflheim »

iamadooddood wrote:I'm fine with waiting now that he's stated his plan, but that's a different matter altogether. It may seem that I don't have patience, but depending on the outcome of this, it may potentially end up affecting the whole BT.

Oh please, effect the entierty of BT? You really do live in your own little world don't you. If you truely were patient about this you would not have started the past days discussion in the first place. Because you were going to get your beloved covers eventually.
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Sad to hear you feel like that larethian.
Only thing I'll say is you should just power trip it, set your wanted rules and stick to them. Ultimately this is "by fans for fans" so offended readers got nothing they can say. That was the only way I lasted back in the old days and I only ran distro, edited and policed irc channels.
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