Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Zuruumi
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

Post by Zuruumi »

Tha could as well end up as a draw if they had both the same speed (or rather mutual kill). But I think Miyuki should be a bit slower (well only my guess, as she still hesistates a bit when using this magic).
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Zuruumi wrote:Tha could as well end up as a draw if they had both the same speed (or rather mutual kill). But I think Miyuki should be a bit slower (well only my guess, as she still hesistates a bit when using this magic).
Not when her brother's anything is on the line.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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shido wrote:If Miyuki and Maya were to fight, it would all boils down to how fast Miyuki can cast Cocytus before Maya can cast her unique ability. I don't see a way for anyone to be able to block either of those magics.
Wouldn't Cocytus be impossible if Maya or any other high-level magician used Zone Interference around their body? It wouldn't even have to be very wide. Maya for example would know Miyuki could use it (if it were an all out fight)
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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I don´t think Maya would stand any chance if it were to come to battle of zone interference.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Zuruumi wrote:I don´t think Maya would stand any chance if it were to come to battle of zone interference.
I don't know, but surely she would be able to do it if it were only a little area around herself?
The nature of Cocytus makes it so that the magic needs direct contact with the brain.

And don't forget Maya's one of the strongest in the world, while Miyuki still has a lot of time to become stronger.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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It would still come down to how fast can they deploy Zone Interference around them. Unless they came to battle prepared that is.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

Post by TriDent14 »

I think you guys underestimate Maya and overestimate Miyuki.
First of all- in volume 11 when Lina saw that magic it was stated that in the usna they were taught how to counter that magic, so it's possible to counter it
and Maya is said to be the strongest magician in her generation- she surely knows a way or to how to counter that.
Maya's magic is not absolute either, it's just so hard to counter it that practically no 1 can do it.
There is no magic that is absolute, every magic has weakness but there are some that are better and have almost no weaknesses, but still
not perfect. Taken from Vol 8:
"Just as it’s impossible to defend against by magic which shields against physical phenomena, it’s almost impossible to defend against Meteor Line with anti magic. Since it’s mediated via the physical phenomenon called light, preventing it purely via anti magic such as interference over an area is extremely difficult. If one’s interference strength in the single element ‘distribution of light’ cannot exceed Maya’s, ‘Meteor Line’ is unstoppable. As ‘distribution of light’ is Maya’s innate magic, interfering with it is far too high a hurdle. And once the magic has been activated, even if one tries to cause interference in the area of effect, the phenomena rewriting effect that ‘light has moved’ has already taken place."
In other words even Miyuki probably doesn't have enough interference strength to block Maya's magic because it's her innate magic and thus making it extremely difficult
to interfere with. Another thing is, once the magic activated, interference wont work and as we saw in Miyuki vs Lina battle Miyuki cast interference around her
but it wasn't wide enough to reach Lina so in other words even if Miyuki could have enough interference strength, she still probably wont be able to block Maya's magic.
On the other hand, Maya is 1 of the strongest magicians and 1 of the Yotsuba's specialties is Mind Magic so she surely has the knowledge how to counter it.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Well the main problem is, that we don´t have any idea of Maya´s strength. We saw Miyuki using Cocytus, Nifheim, Inferno and I would guess there should be also quite a lot of other deadly magics she should be able to use with Tatsuya´s help. On the other hand we know of only one magic Maya is capable of wielding. We know nothing about her other abilities (including interference strength). Therefore it is fairly hard to guess how good Maya is. Not even speaking about the fact, that she should get a bit weaker every year, as the magic abilities should weaken after some age, and it should also take a toll on her body (not sure where exactly, but it was mentioned somwhere), though she might still be at her full power, who knows, we seriously know almost nothing about her.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Zuruumi wrote:Well the main problem is, that we don´t have any idea of Maya´s strength. We saw Miyuki using Cocytus, Nifheim, Inferno and I would guess there should be also quite a lot of other deadly magics she should be able to use with Tatsuya´s help. On the other hand we know of only one magic Maya is capable of wielding. We know nothing about her other abilities (including interference strength). Therefore it is fairly hard to guess how good Maya is. Not even speaking about the fact, that she should get a bit weaker every year, as the magic abilities should weaken after some age, and it should also take a toll on her body (not sure where exactly, but it was mentioned somwhere), though she might still be at her full power, who knows, we seriously know almost nothing about her.
Ecsuce me sir, but it's absurd.
Yotsuba Maya is known as 1 of the strongest magicians in the world, and her night magic is practically ultimate as practically no 1 can defend against it.
On the other hand Miyuki, talented- yes. But to compare her to 1 of the strongest magicians in the world is absurd.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Nothing against it, I just pointed out, that we can´t evaluate this clearly as long as we do not know her full potential (or at least a part of it). By the way, though unexperienced (well compared to Maya, though not compared to others) Lina is supposed to be one of the strongest magicians too and she got trashed. Not even speaking about Lu Gonghu who got trashed by high schoolers of lower level than Miyuki (though it was like 4 vs 1, and yeah Mari and Mayumi are weaker than Miyuki). Of course I am not saying Miyuki would win, but to gauge whether she would have anything like a chance of winning we know about Maya too little.
By the way, though magic you can´t defend against is bothersome it doesen´t make it absolute. For example you might do something like Mikihiko did in the Nine School Competition (though it is true it might be impossible against her even if higher level magic was used) or just crush her with her residence sooner than she can ascertain where you are (Maya spends almost all the time at home so her location should be easy to guess fo Miyuki). Also as long as you use some ability that would make it hard for her to ascertain your location (either earlier mentioned camuflage or just ultra-high speed somevement with some tricks) her ability is almost useless. That is why I say, that if we do not know any more of her abilities we can´t really say it is impossible to defeat her (for Miyuki). As long as it is restricted to the only magic we saw her using there is quite a number of possible counters.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

Post by TriDent14 »

Zuruumi wrote:Nothing against it, I just pointed out, that we can´t evaluate this clearly as long as we do not know her full potential (or at least a part of it). By the way, though unexperienced (well compared to Maya, though not compared to others) Lina is supposed to be one of the strongest magicians too and she got trashed. Not even speaking about Lu Gonghu who got trashed by high schoolers of lower level than Miyuki (though it was like 4 vs 1, and yeah Mari and Mayumi are weaker than Miyuki). Of course I am not saying Miyuki would win, but to gauge whether she would have anything like a chance of winning we know about Maya too little.
By the way, though magic you can´t defend against is bothersome it doesen´t make it absolute. For example you might do something like Mikihiko did in the Nine School Competition (though it is true it might be impossible against her even if higher level magic was used) or just crush her with her residence sooner than she can ascertain where you are (Maya spends almost all the time at home so her location should be easy to guess fo Miyuki). Also as long as you use some ability that would make it hard for her to ascertain your location (either earlier mentioned camuflage or just ultra-high speed somevement with some tricks) her ability is almost useless. That is why I say, that if we do not know any more of her abilities we can´t really say it is impossible to defeat her (for Miyuki). As long as it is restricted to the only magic we saw her using there is quite a number of possible counters.
First of all the fight Lina vs Miyuki wasn't fair at all. Lina was tired and she tried to best Miyuki in a field she specializes in.
Fresh Lina with Brioniac will probably have the upper hand versus Miyuki, it's really hard to say cause we dont know exactly how Miyuki's mind magic works
and how to counter it, but I am sure as hell Miyuki won't be able to block Lina's strategic class magic with her zone interference, and Lina's strategic class magic
can be fired from very long distances and she can control the scale of the magic too.
About Lu Gonghu, as you said urself it was 4v1 and even combined they were inferior in terms of skills, they won because of the awesome strategy that they made.
Another thing is, I don't know how you can say Miyuki is stronger than Mari/Mayumi when we really have never seen them fight 1v1.
And I am not saying it's impossible to beat Maya, even the strongest can lose, it's just that Miyuki's skills and abilities are probably not enough.
And about ur "ways" to counter Maya's magic- do you really believe that if wearing something with magic in it was enough to counter her magic she would
have been considered that strong? About camfoulage or ultra high speed movement- Miyuki is unable to do any of that(probably?) and again if it was enough to
counter her she surely would not have been known as 1 of the strongest.
Her light magic is so knows because it's said to be "invincible" and even the Juumonji's Phalanx can't block it.
I am not saying it's impossible to kill Maya, but seriously the probability of Miyuki being able to do so in 1v1 without and handicaps are really low so I am not
denying it completely, but I really don't believe that Miyuki is capable of doing that and if she is then I will really be dissapointed.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Well, Mari vs Miyuki would end quite quickly as Mary would get absolutely no chance of affecting Miyuki with her magic (she doesen´t posses enoguh power to break through her zone interference) and as long as they don´t start in 3 or less meters apart Miyuki would crush Mari before she has any chance of getting near her. Mayumi vs Miyuki would be a bit more interesting, but I doubt she would get to her too. She might be able to attack her from out of her area of interference, but that would give Miyuki enough time to do something against the atacks. As for them being inferior to her in their pure technical talent it was mentioned in the visitors arc when she was playing the "game" with Lina (well I am not sure about this, as it wasn´t really clear though). If the fight was Mari + Mayumi vs Miyuki... that would be hard to guess, at long range Miyuki would still win, but if they started from like 5 meters i don´t think even she would have won.

And about Mikihiko´s trick, I wasn´t refering to his clothes (robe or whatever it was) but about the magic he used to show a mirrage of himself which was then atacked. Well, though with the help of the clothes.
Shadow magic had displaced an illusion of himself several steps away for the enemy to shoot at.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Zuruumi wrote:Well, Mari vs Miyuki would end quite quickly as Mary would get absolutely no chance of affecting Miyuki with her magic (she doesen´t posses enoguh power to break through her zone interference) and as long as they don´t start in 3 or less meters apart Miyuki would crush Mari before she has any chance of getting near her. Mayumi vs Miyuki would be a bit more interesting, but I doubt she would get to her too. She might be able to attack her from out of her area of interference, but that would give Miyuki enough time to do something against the atacks. As for them being inferior to her in their pure technical talent it was mentioned in the visitors arc when she was playing the "game" with Lina (well I am not sure about this, as it wasn´t really clear though). If the fight was Mari + Mayumi vs Miyuki... that would be hard to guess, at long range Miyuki would still win, but if they started from like 5 meters i don´t think even she would have won.

And about Mikihiko´s trick, I wasn´t refering to his clothes (robe or whatever it was) but about the magic he used to show a mirrage of himself which was then atacked. Well, though with the help of the clothes.
Shadow magic had displaced an illusion of himself several steps away for the enemy to shoot at.
You jump too quickly to conclusions. Why do you think it would be so easy to "crush" Mari before she has any chance of getting near her?
Why do you think Mayumi is inferior to Miyuki?
How can you jump into this conclusions? I don't even know where to start but Mari is really strong and she can attack from mid or long range too(dont remember
what she did when she assisted her boyfriend vs Lu Gonghu) and anyway we really didnt see her fight 1v1 and know very little about how she fights
and the same goes to Mayumi(we know she can nullify magic and a few more things but it's all we know).
About Miyuki being superior to them- it was said that she was the best in that certain game and it's all, games and battle are 2 different things and
I am not sure that Mayumi or Mari even played the game against her but anyway it doesn't indicate anything, let Tatsuya play this game he will probably lose to every 1,
let Tatsuya fight he will beat everyone's ass. Anyway my point is game doesn't equal battle and we know too little about how Mari or Mayumi fight against equal opponents.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

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Finally someone agreeing Miyuki would get trashed by Maya.

But I probably would agree that Miyuki is more powerful than Mayumi or Mari. No matter how tired you say Lina was, it is still quite a feet to beat the most powerful magician in the USNA. And let's not forget that Miyuki was also more powerful when they went at it in school. But just because she's that powerful doesn't mean that she would win in a fight. Mari specializes in anti-personnel combat, so tactically she would have the advantage, also she is very diverse in her magic so it wouldn't be a one-on-one power match like against Lina.
And about fighting Maya: the woman is what 45 tops? In 2095 it's quite possible that that's like 35 now. So I doubt she'd be weaker and even if she is, it's not like a 45 year old has lost that much power. Look at old man Kudou, it's possible he can't wield much magic anymore(we don't know what he can still perform), but he still can do it.
And why would you think some squiggly question marks on a robe or high-speed or camouflage are going to help you? High speed: faster than light????, location and camouflage: v8:
Spoiler! :
This magic which had cemented Maya’s place as one of the most powerful magicians in the world, earning her the names ‘Devil of the Far East’ and ‘Queen of Night’ is a Convergence type Systematic magic which controls the distribution of light in its area of effect. Its power is especially amplified in a closed space such as rooms or tunnels.
The apparent process of this magic first forms countless tiny balls of light floating in the darkened area, which are then shot out as rays.
The attack appears like a shower of lasers, but the power of Meteor Line has no connection with the energy of the light. Even the amount of light is irrelevant.
The essence of the magic lies in forcing the redistribution of light, where the coordinates, for light to be in, are set as little balls ,and lines are then drawn between them.
Anything in the path of the space the light passes through is modified as the light is transmitted: regardless of the hardness of the object, heat resistance, plasticity, or resilience, a hole is drilled through. Not even highly transparent glass holds an optical transparency of 100%, and cannot escape the event modification that ‘light has passed through’ and therefore ‘a hole was made’.
Looking at the logic behind this magic, rather than the phenomenon itself, it can be concluded that the magic interferes with the structural information of the object via the distribution of light, directly vaporizing solids and liquids without affecting heat or pressure; in other words a type of decomposition magic which decomposes into gas. Since it’s defined as a ‘ray of distributed light’, it cannot be defended against via blocking, reflecting, or refracting. Since the light doesn't come from any particular direction, it cannot be shielded against by magic either. Even if one were to cover themselves with a spherical shield in all directions, it cannot alter the movement of photons and the phenomena ‘light has become a line’ will still be produced, resulting in a hole.
Just as it’s impossible to defend against by magic which shields against physical phenomena, it’s almost impossible to defend against Meteor Line with anti magic. Since it’s mediated via the physical phenomenon called light, preventing it purely via anti magic such as interference over an area is extremely difficult. If one’s interference strength in the single element ‘distribution of light’ cannot exceed Maya’s, ‘Meteor Line’ is unstoppable. As ‘distribution of light’ is Maya’s innate magic, interfering with it is far too high a hurdle. And once the magic has been activated, even if one tries to cause interference in the area of effect, the phenomena rewriting effect that ‘light has moved’ has already taken place.
Not even the Phalanx of the Juumonjis, which perfectly combines defense against physical forces with defense against magic, can hold against it. Due to that Maya stands invincible in a fight between magicians, and is regarded as one of the ‘strongest magicians in the world’.
However—as ‘Meteor Line’ operates by indirectly affecting the structural information of an enclosed space, it decisively loses out to Tatsuya’s ability to directly interfere with structural information. The magical barrier through which light passes crafted by ‘Night’ via interfering with the structural information is easily shattered by interference which directly affects the structural information.
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Re: Mahouka - Double Seven Arc : Volume 12

Post by Zuruumi »

The problem is: if you want to dodge it than you have to be faster than light, BUT, she has to aim for you, if you are 10 centimeters from her and in the next moment you are 10 meters from her, do you think she will be ablr to make it so, that the light runs through you? As for the other thing, as long as she thinks you are 10 meters far away from the point you are, of course she can´t kill you, she will kill the shadow she sees.
But my point wasn´t:"Miyuki would win" my point was:"Theire are countermeasures to her main magic, therefore as long as we do not know how she could supplement it we can´t judge her full potential".
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