Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by shichinanatsu »

and to back Smidge's theory, here's a little something i found in v6 of the novels (Asahina Mikuru no Yuuutsu)..
Spoiler! :
To tell you the truth, I was happy. Very happy. Walking side by side with one of North High's most beautiful students, even if someone chucked my Purple Diploma into the gutter, I would still not feel any sense of regret, seeing that the diploma was issued by a country that wasn't renowned for literature anyway.
seen in another light, this statement either points to kyon being a writer in the future, or the fact that kyon is a rendition of tanigawa nagaru-san in the light novels.. though i'm not sure if he ever had a purple diploma to begin with.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by Rectifier »

Also looks like a bit of a satire on the literature world's view on japanese literature.

I think Europe just got owned.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by Kaisos Erranon »

Rectifier wrote:Also looks like a bit of a satire on the literature world's view on japanese literature.

I think Europe just got owned.
OH SNAP.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by onizuka-gto »

Rectifier wrote:Also looks like a bit of a satire on the literature world's view on japanese literature.

I think Europe just got owned.

really? what is a "purple diploma"?

i still dunno what a "Diploma" is worth, i do know we started using them here is the UK late last year, but that's all.

Do they use "diploma" in Europe?
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by shichinanatsu »

hmm.. here in my side of the world, a diploma is proof a school gives upon completing a level of education; usually the only important one is what you receive for finishing college/university, and companies require you to have a diploma for jobs requiring a bachelor's degree.. though its not like we can't forge diplomas here, even class cards with nice grades.

also, reading between the lines, the Purple Diploma would be something like a domestic version of the Nobel Prize for literature.. and yeah, Tanigawa-san was being humble (or satiric) at saying Nihon-koku isn't renowned for literature, because there's Mishima Yukio-san, Murakami Haruki-san, and works such as Genji Monogatari and Taketori Monogatari
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by ainsoph9 »

At least here in the United States, a diploma is a good thing to have if you want a job. I would like to think that would be a pretty universal thing for jobs that require higher education. However, because the levels of education throughout the country are somewhat uneven even with state testing, I personally do not take too much stock into what a high school diploma means. A college diploma is much more respected (obviously! duh!), but going to a community college is not as looked highly upon as going to even a state or private school.

As for the known literature out of Japan, I am familiar with some of it, but that is something of a flaw with the education system here. Basically, K-12, they cram as much "American" and European literature down your throat as they can and call it good. I have never liked this approach to education because the United States and Europe are not the world. I would like to see some more Asian, African, and Latino/Spanish literature put into our textbooks, even if they have to translate them with a thousand monkeys chained to a thousand typewriters. (Seriously, I do not advocate animal cruelty.) I think that somewhere along the line they could squeeze in something to show people here that people in other countries are not illiterate cavemen. They are starting to do that with AP (Advanced Placement) Literature classes, but that is only as a way to show off to colleges here that somebody actually has a brain between their ears. In any event, our literature texts seem to totally fail in making an effort to show any sort of multiculturalism with respect to some parts of the world. It is my sincere hope that this changes soon, but we shall see. :?
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

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ainsoph9 wrote:At least here in the United States, a diploma is a good thing to have if you want a job. I would like to think that would be a pretty universal thing for jobs that require higher education. However, because the levels of education throughout the country are somewhat uneven even with state testing, I personally do not take too much stock into what a high school diploma means. A college diploma is much more respected (obviously! duh!), but going to a community college is not as looked highly upon as going to even a state or private school.

As for the known literature out of Japan, I am familiar with some of it, but that is something of a flaw with the education system here. Basically, K-12, they cram as much "American" and European literature down your throat as they can and call it good. I have never liked this approach to education because the United States and Europe are not the world. I would like to see some more Asian, African, and Latino/Spanish literature put into our textbooks, even if they have to translate them with a thousand monkeys chained to a thousand typewriters. (Seriously, I do not advocate animal cruelty.) I think that somewhere along the line they could squeeze in something to show people here that people in other countries are not illiterate cavemen. They are starting to do that with AP (Advanced Placement) Literature classes, but that is only as a way to show off to colleges here that somebody actually has a brain between their ears. In any event, our literature texts seem to totally fail in making an effort to show any sort of multiculturalism with respect to some parts of the world. It is my sincere hope that this changes soon, but we shall see. :?

That sucks dude, at least they're starting to give us some international literature here, such as last year when I read Cry, The Beloved Country by Alan Paton; a deceased South African writer.

The problem is that Europe and America have had soo much influence over Japan that they felt indebted to us and had those things in the curriculum, and over time they just stuck to that because it seemed to work.

The same thing happens over here in America, I know alot of people that have read To Kill a Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, as well as a few others.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by ainsoph9 »

Yeah. It just might be my state: the "great" state of Michigan (insert sarcasm here). Personally, I think that it is sad that most literature that I have read as part of compulsory education has been by old white men. I mean this in no sexist or racist way; rather, I just find that with so much more out there, why do we not find that kind of literature in our classrooms?
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by Rectifier »

ainsoph9 wrote:Yeah. It just might be my state: the "great" state of Michigan (insert sarcasm here). Personally, I think that it is sad that most literature that I have read as part of compulsory education has been by old white men. I mean this in no sexist or racist way; rather, I just find that with so much more out there, why do we not find that kind of literature in our classrooms?
I read that in my Michigan high school, as well as Slaughterhouse Five, some Edgar Allen Poe, some Phillip K. Di.ck (Yes that's his name, without the dot of course), and others.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by shichinanatsu »

*opinions seconded*

the average high school literature playlist here in my parts are mostly american and european classics, i.e. W. Shakespeare, V. Hugo, E. Hemingway, J. Steinbeck, M. Twain, and a few others i can't remember. for the more privileged (those with meatier curricula, that included me), you would expect to see some J. Swift, D. Defoe, H. Lee, E. Bronte, G. Eliot, Cervantes, and a very light sprinkling of Oriental.

come tertiary level, those with meatier curricula (again, that includes me) begin to take on Homer, Plato, some spicy sauce in the forms of A. Dumas and J. Conrad, and if you're lucky (NOT) you get to have some Bhagavad Gita and Confucius, but that's about it. if you want some recent Oriental lit, you read it as a hobby of sorts (like the B-T project!!!)


i agree with ainsoph in that educators just give the students any decent, READABLE lit they can get their hands on. the problem lies in the fact that there is so much more DECENT sauce to be spread, and yet it remains out of reach JUST because of the lingual barrier. i have yet to hear of any commercialized mass-translation project anywhere in the world, the only ones i hear are those you see in universities, and those entirely sponsored by the average readers who happen to know what's they're translating (B-T of course, what else!?)

if i say anymore, i might start dissing the imperialistic nature of the English language, which i'm sure most here would not appreciate.. so i'm gonna stop here..

EDIT: as expected from B-T, any - and every topic - will be derailed as soon as the members pitch in..
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by ainsoph9 »

shichinatsu wrote:
come tertiary level, those with meatier curricula (again, that includes me) begin to take on Homer, Plato, some spicy sauce in the forms of A. Dumas and J. Conrad, and if you're lucky (NOT) you get to have some Bhagavad Gita and Confucius, but that's about it. if you want some recent Oriental lit, you read it as a hobby of sorts (like the B-T project!!!)
I think that part of the problem is that people in a lot of places do not learn about their own culture and history enough outside of school to make it internalized. Because of this, they do not have the time to learn about other cultures. Then, they wonder why they cannot understand half of the people around the world, and I do not mean the language barrier. Hence, reading material that is outside of one's culture and language becomes a bit of a hobby for those who are in the minority. It is similar to having a taste in the top things in life. Not everyone will want to go out there to get the best in life (i.e., candy, music quality, etc.), but there will always be a few who want that kind of stuff. So, I guess that until the masses join in looking at more multicultural things, we will just be a minority to try to reach those masses.
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Re: Chapter 3 : Mystérique Sign

Post by shichinanatsu »

i think, you don't have to fully understand something in order to enjoy it fully, you can enjoy something even if you understand it lightly. take sex; it has many aspect, and perhaps only the physical part can be fully understood, but for the most part everyone enjoys sex.

going back to SHnY - and all other foreign works of lit. i managed to somehow introduce a few people to haruhiism via the light novels, and all of them enjoyed it. but not everyone converted to haruhiism. they were people who aren't normally interested in sino-jap culture, and would rather watch Marvel-inspired movies than say, Afro Samurai. for the one other person i managed to convert, she took it on her own to start brushing up on nihon culture (meaning spending hours at a library AND wikipedia), as the effect of SHnY on her paralleled mine when i first read it.

every good work of literature has a life-like characteristic; the general understanding of people who read it changes over the years, as some aspects of their mentalities become dominant, and others recede into the background. imho, the SH light novels have this characteristic, morphing understanding aside. as i read and reread and reread it (20x++ in a year, but who's counting..) more and more of previously unnoticed aspects become apparent, ideas that used to seem disjoint suddenly gain connections. all in all, as the novels are 'life-like', i can continue trying to understand it, but i will never fully understand it (and probably tanigawa-san himself), as one person can never fully understand another person.


on a lighter note, i actually printed vols. 1 to 7 of the SH series (i read better with hard copies over soft ones). and i have the slightest feeling what i did is a most grave offense. *awaits the iron hand of the B-T masters (oni-san)*
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