ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

The translator finished chapter 5 and the annex last night. However, the translation is a little rough compared to the earlier chapters. I would like to get a hold of it and edit it before we post it up here. I leave for work in just a few minutes and won't be back till this evening. Could one of the other editors go ahead and work on chapter 5 so we can get it posted up today and finish the volume? If not I will start on it as soon as I get home from work this evening.

Also, I have another terminology question. The translator so far has used "Crescent Moon Guild" and the anime has used "Crescent Moon Alliance". They say "guild" in actual English several times in the anime, but use Japanese when saying Crescent's name so I lean towards Alliance since they appear to be different words. Could anyone with some knowledge of Japanese shed some light on this one?

The official name of the 'guild' is 三日月同盟, which translates to "Crescent Moon Alliance". From what I know, 同盟(Alliance) and ギルド(Guild) are not used interchangeably. Usage of 'guild' is meant to refer to the guild as a whole. However, 'guild' is not actually part of the name.

Detalz wrote:The official name of the 'guild' is 三日月同盟, which translates to "Crescent Moon Alliance". From what I know, 同盟(Alliance) and ギルド(Guild) are not used interchangeably. Usage of 'guild' is meant to refer to the guild as a whole. However, 'guild' is not actually part of the name.

Thanks. That is what I needed to know. There are portions where I am fairly certain guild is appropriate based on the context, but the areas where it is strictly the title I will change to Alliance.

*Edit* Changed the guild name for chapters 1 and 2. I also made some other small edits involving present and past tense, but there is still tons to do in that regard. I have some work to do for my job tonight so that is probably all I will get done tonight. Will update if I get anything else done.

Volume 3, Chapter 1 is now undergoing translation and editorial suggestions at 4chan's /a/ forum in the thread at: [link removed upon licensing] . Also, the BT Translation Project now has a registered translator.

Log Horizon Translation Project at Baka-Tsuki:
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... og_Horizon

Translator (as listed on the Log Horizon Translation Project page:
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... :Rozenbach

Made a few small edits on the Annex page such as capitalizing guild names. Also noticed that kannagi was used at least once for the shaman class, but shaman has been used for the rest of the translation. I did some digging around in the /a/ thread where the author sneaked in and looked for an answer. The author responding as vague as possible (used kannagi-shaman) but someone else posted the following.

"Kannagi is not a translation, its a romajisation. One of the things Kannagi can mean literally is Shaman. That's it."

I am going to take this person's view and use shaman. Some people (like me) don't know a word of Japanese and wouldn't have any idea what Kannagi is. If a project supervisor comes along and doesn't like it then I can change it, but for now that is what I am going to use.

I will continue my quest on unifying titles, guild names, and past and present tense tonight when I get home from work.

guardianknight wrote:"Kannagi is not a translation, its a romajisation. One of the things Kannagi can mean literally is Shaman. That's it."

I am going to take this person's view and use shaman. Some people (like me) don't know a word of Japanese and wouldn't have any idea what Kannagi is. If a project supervisor comes along and doesn't like it then I can change it, but for now that is what I am going to use.

Kannagi is the name of the class, it doesn't actually have to mean anything to anyone, even though in this case it does. Also just 'Shaman' is incorrect anyways.

Official text is 神祇官《カンナギ》 which reads 'Jingi-kan <Kannagi>' (we use the name listed in <> for all the classes and all the classes were romajisation), Jingi-kan aren't actually typical 'Shamans' as it's understood in the West.
Kannagi is a localized (Japanese only) class, so re-localizing something that is already localized is silly. They are also referred to as Shrine Priests/Maidens in-verse as a nickname.

Lastly, refer to:

(Authors twitter in case you didn't know)

Hope this helps.

Sphaela wrote:Kannagi is the name of the class, it doesn't actually have to mean anything to anyone, even though in this case it does. Also just 'Shaman' is incorrect anyways.

Summary:
While I also preferred Shaman along with Guardianknight, I will switch to using Kannagi in the translations after seeing Sphaela's explanation.


As I understood Guardianknight's logic:
Kannagi is from the romanji so it is more Japanese than using the Shaman. But is using the Japanese romanji word always the correct approach in translation? For example, with the same logic of using Kannagi in preference to Shaman, we could always use "sayanara" instead of "good bye". I remember those old fansubber translation wars back in the early 1990's where a lot of Japanophiles and purists took one side while various people who wanted full translations wanted the other. Out of that morass, the passing two decades still hasn't overcome some people wanting "-san" or "mister" to be used for proper translations. In English fantasy role-playing games, "shaman" would be the closest translated class name as Shaman is a type of class whereas "kannagi" doesn't exist as a class.

Japanese RPG: Kannagi exists but Shaman doesn't
English RPG: Shaman exists but Kannagi doesn't

I have to agree that for westerners who have no exposure to kannagi or Japan's historical miko, the word Shaman is preferable since it already carries with it a number of implied functions such as spirit/soul-based magic along with weapon usage. But since this is being used with the context of educating people new to japanese media, using Kannagi would serve that purpose best.


Sphaela's key point for choosing 'kannagi' over 'shaman' is:
Official text is 神祇官《カンナギ》 which reads 'Jingi-kan <Kannagi>' (we use the name listed in <> for all the classes and all the classes were romajisation), Jingi-kan aren't actually typical 'Shamans' as it's understood in the West. Therefore, using "Shaman" in translations for Log Horizon would probably be less accurate than "Kannagi" once the players started role-playing aspects of a Kannagi such as wearing Japanese Shrine Priest/Maiden garb or doing other things that temple miko do.

As for using the author's twitter, it doesn't specifically rule out Shaman especially since there is the case where the author came to 4chan for a Q/A session. The Kannagi versus Shaman question was posed to him. His answer resulted in "Kannagi-Shaman". Ha, ha. If I can take a liberty, it would be as if I asked you whether you preferred Vanilla or Chocolate ice cream and your answer was 'I like vanilla-chocolate ice cream". So, that was also part of the context Guardianknight had when choosing the term Shaman.

Naeko wrote:As for using the author's twitter, it doesn't specifically rule out Shaman especially since there is the case where the author came to 4chan for a Q/A session. The Kannagi versus Shaman question was posed to him. His answer resulted in "Kannagi-Shaman". Ha, ha. If I can take a liberty, it would be as if I asked you whether you preferred Vanilla or Chocolate ice cream and your answer was 'I like vanilla-chocolate ice cream". So, that was also part of the context Guardianknight had when choosing the term Shaman.

The twitter question was asked after the Q&A on /a/ so we could get clarification (I work on the English lh wiki posted by Vin so we wanted to sort it out). The other issue we had with using the term 'Shaman' was that Kannagi only exists on the Japanese servers, and are called something else on the other servers (ex. Medium on North America). There was also a conflict with 'Shaman' being the name of a Druid build we found on the authors site.

I get why people would want to localize Kannagi though.

This is why we need a project supervisor so they can help lay down the law when it comes to terms.

I saw the logic of the other option before Sphaela posted it, but I still vote for Shaman. I think it would be better to use something that doesn't leave people that are completely new to such things having to google all the terms used in the translation. For those that know Japanese, is there anything else out there we could use for this class name?

As a side note, we should be seeing this class show up in the anime this week. Therefore, I will see what those translators come up with. They have been a half decent guide so far.

guardianknight wrote:As a side note, we should be seeing this class show up in the anime this week. Therefore, I will see what those translators come up with. They have been a half decent guide so far.

If they talk about Minori, she'll be referred to as a Shrine Maiden. Actually, didn't that already happen?

4chan anonymous is continuing translation of Vol.3 Chap.1 from where it left off in the prior thread. If you wish to participate in the editing commentary, or read the "early version" translation, see: [link removed upon licensing] . And yes, the anonymous translator does listen to people's serious recommendations and has altered the translation accordingly.

You can suggest a standardization for Touya's name there too. Otherwise, it would be 4chan /a/ humour to use To☆Ya as their "official" spelling especially since he's an up and rising star.

Sphaela wrote:
If they talk about Minori, she'll be referred to as a Shrine Maiden. Actually, didn't that already happen?

It did, and I missed it the first time. Well looks like the anime messed up this one. Wouldn't be opposed to shrine maiden except we know there are guys playing the class as well, so it doesn't really fit. Back to the drawing board.

LiTTleDRAgo wrote:regarding touya's name, what should be used for his name?
toya, touya, or tohya?

I noticed all 3 used this morning and was going to ask that very question. When you get that figured out I will help go through and change it.

Almost finished going through all of volume 2 and changing the name to "Crescent Moon Alliance". There were some parts in chapter 4 where I left it Crescent Moon because the context was less about the name and more about the group of people. I know for myself if I was on a game talking about a group I would say "Those guys over at Crescent Moon." instead of "Those guys at Crescent Moon Alliance." Just to be clear, I didn't take guild or alliance off of the name anywhere. There were parts where it wasn't there and I left it if I thought it fit. As always I will work on it again when I get home from work, and I will review chapter 4 tonight to double check the ones without the last bit to make sure they sound ok.

Sphaela wrote:

Naeko wrote:As for using the author's twitter, it doesn't specifically rule out Shaman especially since there is the case where the author came to 4chan for a Q/A session. The Kannagi versus Shaman question was posed to him. His answer resulted in "Kannagi-Shaman". Ha, ha. If I can take a liberty, it would be as if I asked you whether you preferred Vanilla or Chocolate ice cream and your answer was 'I like vanilla-chocolate ice cream". So, that was also part of the context Guardianknight had when choosing the term Shaman.

The twitter question was asked after the Q&A on /a/ so we could get clarification (I work on the English lh wiki posted by Vin so we wanted to sort it out). The other issue we had with using the term 'Shaman' was that Kannagi only exists on the Japanese servers, and are called something else on the other servers (ex. Medium on North America). There was also a conflict with 'Shaman' being the name of a Druid build we found on the authors site.

I get why people would want to localize Kannagi though.

Somehow missed this post last night. The Shaman build part does pose a problem. I am confused though. You said that Kannagi only exists on the Japanese servers (I am assuming mentioned in later novels), but then you said it is called something else on other servers. Doesn't that mean it does exist just with a different name? I am assuming that since we still have this problem that Medium was only your example and we have no idea what the NA servers use, otherwise I would say go with that. If the class actually does not exist in any form on the other servers then maybe we use Kannagi and put some reference links attached to it so people like me don't get a deer in headlights look. If the class does exist on other servers but is called something else then I think we should try and find a name that works as that something else.

guardianknight wrote:It did, and I missed it the first time. Well looks like the anime messed up this one. Wouldn't be opposed to shrine maiden except we know there are guys playing the class as well, so it doesn't really fit. Back to the drawing board.

If there isn't a Priest/Priestess class already it could be an option.

guardianknight wrote:Somehow missed this post last night. The Shaman build part does pose a problem. I am confused though. You said that Kannagi only exists on the Japanese servers (I am assuming mentioned in later novels), but then you said it is called something else on other servers. Doesn't that mean it does exist just with a different name? I am assuming that since we still have this problem that Medium was only your example and we have no idea what the NA servers use, otherwise I would say go with that. If the class actually does not exist in any form on the other servers then maybe we use Kannagi and put some reference links attached to it so people like me don't get a deer in headlights look. If the class does exist on other servers but is called something else then I think we should try and find a name that works as that something else.

Each server will have the equivalent number of classes(12 in total), but Samurai and Kannagi are Japanese server only classes. It's not known whether or not the other servers will get a completely different class (as in they serve different roles), or just the same class (so same role) with a different theme. All we know is that they exist under different names, relevant to their location.

guardianknight wrote:It did, and I missed it the first time. Well looks like the anime messed up this one. Wouldn't be opposed to shrine maiden except we know there are guys playing the class as well, so it doesn't really fit. Back to the drawing board.

In-verse on the Japanese server female Kannagi are referred to as Shrine Maidens, while males are referred to as Shrine Priests. They're just nicknames the players came up with, not official designations by the game.

LiTTleDRAgo wrote:regarding touya's name, what should be used for his name?
toya, touya, or tohya?

Direct reading of トウヤ is Touya, but I'll leave that up for editors to decide since I have a feeling you guys pronounce them all the same way anyways.

Niflheim wrote:

guardianknight wrote:It did, and I missed it the first time. Well looks like the anime messed up this one. Wouldn't be opposed to shrine maiden except we know there are guys playing the class as well, so it doesn't really fit. Back to the drawing board.

If there isn't a Priest/Priestess class already it could be an option.

That isn't a bad idea. I did a head count of all the classes we currently know about and nothing called priest/priestess. Although there is cleric and that is somewhat similar, but I don't think it is so similar that we couldn't use priest/priestess. I have played some games where both a priest and a cleric class existed. I will keep thinking of other ideas but that is definitely a possibility.

*Edit* Finished changing the guild name to Crescent Moon Alliance on chapter 5. That should be all of volume 2. I will review and proof read it tonight and then I will start the next major project which will be correcting past and present tense.