Gakusen Toshi Asterisk - Names and Terminologies

[chancs]

Created for Names and Terminologies.

The last discussion was:

I'm not a big fan of the whole《 》thing. I'm not particularly opposed to them; I just prefer things without them.

It't technically possible to set it up so you can have the <>'s visible or hidden as preference (or even customisable to preferred braces, a lot of projects use [word] for their bracketing).

I'm currently using this sort of trick with Infinite Stratos v1-7, setup to support them showing either the old or new images, I just haven't properly inserted the images for the first four volumes released with the new ones yet. >.>

Granted it's rather clunky at the moment, but there didn't seem to be the functions available in the current version of mediawiki installed here compared to the one I was testing with. (And compared to wikipedia the functionality here's pretty simple; wikipedia's got an embedded programming language (lua) interpreter of all things running in their system! )

Anyway, are you planning on doing anything while setsuna works on Madan, denormative?

Hrm... running around doing some other minor translation for this, possibly just the stuff that is on those embedded map and information pages (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... _00005.jpg , etc), since I'm pretty slow with translating, so little bite-sized chunks work well for me.

Do lots of one/two-line-translations of chunks of Infinite Stratos so I can insert the new images into the right place. This is either going to be easy, or rather painful depending upon how much editing the new company gave the volumes...

Read/translate a whole three pages of the Prologue of Kajishima Masaki/Mizuki Hiro's Paradise War since whatever Kajishima has his hand in seems to greatly entertain me. (With the really peculiar exception of his h-anime titles, which I never got interested in. )

Fix my semi-b0rk3n PDF creator that seems to die downloading IS v8's images, but works fine downloading IS v7's ones'... yeah doesn't make sense to me either.

Anyway, rambling, busier then I expected. I apparently have an 8-hour-a-day job I'm supposed to attend as well. <.<

Edit: Oh, I was in the middle of tidying up Seikoku no Ryuu Kishi too before getting distracted too...

All yours

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Was wondering about some of the attack names and what not that would come up later in volume 1, so I thought I'd post them and see what peoples' thoughts are.

隔絶の赤傘花 (レッドクラウン) - Red Umbrella Flower of Complete Isolation (Red Crown), Probably referring to fritillaria rubra (It's a defensive technique)

呑竜の咬焔花 (アンテリナム．マジェス) - Biting Firebloom of the Drinking Dragon (Antirrhinum Majus), referring by the flower of the same name (It's a fire dragon attack)

極楽鳥の燈翼 (ストレリーティア) - Solar Wings of the Bird of Paradise (Strelitzia), referring to a flower of the same name (It creates wings).
This last one gave me some problems. It looks like Strelitzia reginae is called the "Bird of Paradise" flower, and the first three kanji mean Extreme, Comfort, and Bird. As for the last two, the final kanji can mean wing, while the first of the two is a non-standard kanji. With that said, the parts (登) and (火) mean ascension and flame respectively. Something above "fire" could be thought of as sun, but honestly, it feels weak to me. Any thoughts?

天霧辰明流中伝 "九牙太刀" - Amagiri Dragon Arts Inner Transmission "Nine Fangs" (the attack itself is not described much, so we don't know exactly what it is)
Honestly, I'm just not sure how to handle 中伝. 中 is Inside/central/middle, whatever whatever, but 伝 is what really gets me. Any thoughts on this as well?

[denormative]

Was wondering about some of the attack names and what not that would come up later in volume 1, so I thought I'd post them and see what peoples' thoughts are.

隔絶の赤傘花 (レッドクラウン) - Red Umbrella Flower of Complete Isolation (Red Crown), Probably referring to fritillaria rubra (It's a defensive technique)

Looks good. (Though if you wanted to chuuni it up, you could use "Supreme Isolation". )

呑竜の咬焔花 (アンテリナム．マジェス) - Biting Firebloom of the Drinking Dragon (Antirrhinum Majus), referring by the flower of the same name (It's a fire dragon attack)

Ah, yeah, the "snapdragon". It's a cute plant.

As to 呑 it'd be probably better to think 飲む (the dude really likes using more uncommon kanji then the common equivalents...), so you could use "Swallowing Dragon" or "Engulfing Dragon". (My dictionary mentions specifically that the 呑む is often used metaphorically.) Somehow or other it also can mean "overwhelming" and "suppressing" as well.

極楽鳥の燈翼 (ストレリーティア) - Solar Wings of the Bird of Paradise (Strelitzia), referring to a flower of the same name (It creates wings).
This last one gave me some problems. It looks like Strelitzia reginae is called the "Bird of Paradise" flower, and the first three kanji mean Extreme, Comfort, and Bird. As for the last two, the final kanji can mean wing, while the first of the two is a non-standard kanji. With that said, the parts (登) and (火) mean ascension and flame respectively. Something above "fire" could be thought of as sun, but honestly, it feels weak to me. Any thoughts?

I agree with 'Strelizia', though ストレリチア seems to be the common katakana version, and 極楽鳥 literally refers to the Bird of Paradise: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%A5%B5% ... D%E9%B3%A5

燈 just looks to be the old form of 'light'; probably the author's chuuni showing through again. >.<

It looks like the 翼 kanji also has references to a Chinese constellation, so given the 'star' emphasis I'd probably upgrade it in scope to "Stellar Wings of the Bird of Paradise". (I like "Light Wings" too, but that could be just the Tenchi-fanboy in me speaking. )

天霧辰明流中伝 "九牙太刀" - Amagiri Dragon Arts Inner Transmission "Nine Fangs" (the attack itself is not described much, so we don't know exactly what it is)
Honestly, I'm just not sure how to handle 中伝. 中 is Inside/central/middle, whatever whatever, but 伝 is what really gets me. Any thoughts on this as well?

I went through and re-translated setsuna's version of 天霧辰明流剣術初伝 --〝貳蛟龍〟back when I was editing it, but it doesn't look like it was actually applied. From a PM:

From spending too much time staring at the furigana, I think it's supposed to be more: "Amagiri Bright Dragon Style Sword Technique First Transmission -- Twin Water Dragons". I don't like "Bright" I would prefer "Shining" or something, and the "Transmission" should probably just be replaced by "Strike" (or "Slash") since it sounds weird in English. Honestly though these skill names are painful to work out.

Given that these are energy attacks, I've reconsidered and think the 'transmission' works fine. Given the 中 in the 9-fangs one, maybe this should be "Beginning", the 9-fangs should be "middle", so we can have an "end" one later?

Also do we need the 太刀 in 九牙太刀 as well? "Nine tusks long-sword"? "Nine tusks sword"? It has a nice mental image of one of those totally-unrealistic fantasy swords with lots of curvy spiky things on the blade.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Snapdragon, that's it. I couldn't find the flower, sadly, but I wasn't really looking too much for that one. I think I was just sleepy at that time when I was looking at it.
As for Light wings, I thought of that too, but her element is fire, so it seems a bit odd. I could see stellar, though, I guess. Either way, I thought something to do with sun would work best, since it does combine a concept of fire and stars. Strictly speaking, all stars are like that, but sun first 'cause it's ours.
As for the whole Amagiri thing, I was thinking about Bright/Shining, but I decided to just go with what was on the wiki because it was there and it meant less for me to think about, but if the PM conversation had a potential change, then that's fine.
Most of all, thanks for giving me insight on the Transmission deal, since that was the one that confused me most. And yeah, Tusks sounds better. I think putting "Blade" or "Sword" at the end makes it sound odd for some reason, though.

[Hiyono]

Some thoughts, from the Chinese point of view (I'm responding to denormative's comments; I simply quoted Enigmatic for simplicity's sake):

隔絶の赤傘花 (レッドクラウン) - Red Umbrella Flower of Complete Isolation (Red Crown), Probably referring to fritillaria rubra (It's a defensive technique)

隔絶 together mean to isolate. 隔 alone means to separate, and 絶 wouldn't mean absolute unless used first as a modifier.

呑竜の咬焔花 (アンテリナム．マジェス) - Biting Firebloom of the Drinking Dragon (Antirrhinum Majus), referring by the flower of the same name (It's a fire dragon attack)

呑 means swallowing, so yes, "Engulfing Dragon" works well.

極楽鳥の燈翼 (ストレリーティア) - Solar Wings of the Bird of Paradise (Strelitzia), referring to a flower of the same name (It creates wings).

As you said, 燈 just means light. The thing is, it means a light as in a physical object like a lamp or lantern. As such, I doubt "Light Wings" would be correct. I think "Stellar Wings" is as good a guess as any, though it hinges on whether or not the constellation connotation of 翼 was intended.

天霧辰明流中伝 "九牙太刀" - Amagiri Dragon Arts Inner Transmission "Nine Fangs" (the attack itself is not described much, so we don't know exactly what it is)

This one is really hard to interpret, so it's possible you guys are completely right. That said, some thoughts.

As I understand it, you guys are breaking things down this way:
天霧辰明流中伝 = [Amagiri][Dragon][Bright][Inner Transmission]

Are you guys accounting for the 流 in 明流? While 明 does mean bright or clear, 明流 instead means "free-flowing" (in Chinese anyway).

Personally, I wouldn't go with "transmission" for 伝 in this case. The Japanese seems to carry the meanings of: 1: legend; tradition; 2: biography; life; 3: method; way (according to jisho). The third definition seems the most fitting contextually, although it doesn't have that meaning in Chinese, so I can't comment. Given the Chinese, however, I'd say the first definition is most likely.

As for the technique itself, I'd say 太刀 is necessary. It should be something along the lines of "Nine-fanged Sword".

[EnigmaticAxiom]

隔絶 together mean to isolate. 隔 alone means to separate, and 絶 wouldn't mean absolute unless used first as a modifier.

Actually, I gave some thought on that as well. When I was looking at it, I thought of 3 possibilities.
Isolation - Like you said, this is the most probable meaning
Complete Separation - Again, a more literal translation
Complete Isolation - Redundant, since Isolation as a concept is complete.
I ended up liking Complete Isolation anyway, despite the redundancy because "Complete Separation" just doesn't sound as cool, and, humorously, "Isolation" looks too lonely by itself, especially since it's one word in a long string of words.

呑 means swallowing, so yes, "Engulfing Dragon" works well.

Sounds much cooler. Much much cooler. Still, I think I'd stick with denormative's snapdragon, since that's an actual flower, and her Strega abilities are flower-based.

As you said, 燈 just means light. The thing is, it means a light as in a physical object like a lamp or lantern. As such, I doubt "Light Wings" would be correct. I think "Stellar Wings" is as good a guess as any, though it hinges on whether or not the constellation connotation of 翼 was intended.

Good to know it means a light as opposed to light as a concept. And stellar sounds cooler than solar I like Stellar Wings!

天霧辰明流中伝 "九牙太刀" - Amagiri Dragon Arts Inner Transmission "Nine Fangs" (the attack itself is not described much, so we don't know exactly what it is)

This one is really hard to interpret, so it's possible you guys are completely right. That said, some thoughts.

As I understand it, you guys are breaking things down this way:
天霧辰明流中伝 = [Amagiri][Dragon][Bright][Inner Transmission]

Are you guys accounting for the 流 in 明流? While 明 does mean bright or clear, 明流 instead means "free-flowing" (in Chinese anyway).

Personally, I wouldn't go with "transmission" for 伝 in this case. The Japanese seems to carry the meanings of: 1: legend; tradition; 2: biography; life; 3: method; way (according to jisho). The third definition seems the most fitting contextually, although it doesn't have that meaning in Chinese, so I can't comment. Given the Chinese, however, I'd say the first definition is most likely.

Actually, I was curious about the Bright vs. Flowing, but since it was already up, I didn't give it much thought. I'd say it's closer to "Clear Flowing Dragon" in a literal sense, so it might be better to go with that? I'll leave that to the official translators.

As a side note, I had a few suggestions for some other terminology already up.
ヴァルディッシュ＝レオ -- Would that be Valdish Leo, or Bardiche Leo? I understand Bardiche would strictly be バルディッシュ, but he's using a massive axe for crying out loud
過励万応現象 -- Over-Excitation Total Response Phenomenon really is a mouthful, so maybe Overflow (as in, beyond the limit) Response Phenomenon. It flows a little better. Up to whoever.
Also, regarding Lux, rather than calling them "Shining Type Armament" and "Pure Star Type Armament", I think it would look better to just drop the word "Type" altogether. Also, saying Lux weapon and Ogre Lux weapon is a bit redundant, since they're already "Armaments." While I know there are non-weapon forms of Lux, for the sake of the story which uses Lux to refer to weapons, I think it's unnecessary.

[Hiyono]

過励万応現象 -- Over-Excitation Total Response Phenomenon really is a mouthful, so maybe Overflow (as in, beyond the limit) Response Phenomenon. It flows a little better. Up to whoever.

Pretty sure 万応 here is a reference to mana, and not meant to be translated literally. Given the context, the idea is essentially that you're stimulating (励) mana (万応) past capacity (過). I'm not sure what the best way to phrase that would be, maybe "mana overdrive phenomenon" ("drive" being a synonym for "motivate")?

Also, regarding Lux, rather than calling them "Shining Type Armament" and "Pure Star Type Armament", I think it would look better to just drop the word "Type" altogether. Also, saying Lux weapon and Ogre Lux weapon is a bit redundant, since they're already "Armaments." While I know there are non-weapon forms of Lux, for the sake of the story which uses Lux to refer to weapons, I think it's unnecessary.

I agree. It was probably hard to tease out, but I attempted to keep all singular forms of Lux and Ogre Lux as-is. I only used "weapons" to refer to them in the plural because I didn't want to say Luxes and Ogre Luxes, which I think looks stupid. That's just a personal preference thing though.

I also tried to ditch the kanji translation in favor of the ruby whenever possible, using the {{Furigana}} notation only the first time 'round. Even though the Japanese usually presents the Japanese form minus its ruby in later instances, in English we usually just describe something, give it a name, and then stick with the name from then on. Again, simple personal preference.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Pretty sure 万応 here is a reference to mana, and not meant to be translated literally. Given the context, the idea is essentially that you're stimulating (励) mana (万応) past capacity (過). I'm not sure what the best way to phrase that would be, maybe "mana overdrive phenomenon" ("drive" being a synonym for "motivate")?

Good point. I never even gave the "Mana" part a thought. Then Mana Overflow Phenomenon would probably work just as well.

I also tried to ditch the kanji translation in favor of the ruby whenever possible, using the {{Furigana}} notation only the first time 'round. Even though the Japanese usually presents the Japanese form minus its ruby in later instances, in English we usually just describe something, give it a name, and then stick with the name from then on. Again, simple personal preference.

Personally, I like to keep the Ruby as the base in all instances and use the meaning in the description. You could probably see this in some of my later pdf files, but essentially, it would be {{furigana:《Genestella》|Starpulse Generation}} or whatever the notation is.

[denormative]

Edit: A bit off topic, but denormitive, Do you have the raw images for this novel? I downloaded the raws on M-Z, so the images, primarily on the split images, is annoying. While the quality is better than what I can download off B-T, since I'm assuming you downsized them to fit the size recommendations for the site, they've got the annoying staple and folded edges on them.

The images currently up on the site are mostly from the official ebook version, and they're 100% of the size that they gave me; that is to say they're totally crap due to the tiny size of the double-page spreads and the massive jpeg artifacting and gif stippling/banding problems depending upon the pages. I have uploaded a few pages from the physical scans due to necessity though, for example this: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/image ... _00005.jpg is the physical vs this: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/image ... _00005.gif the digital, notice the 'fan' scan is the only one that is readable.

I'm still half heartedly thinking of uploading most of the rest of the scans though, since even if they're blurry along the spine for some of them, a lot of the rest are just better looking then their book equivalents.

[denormative]

天霧辰明流中伝 "九牙太刀" - Amagiri Dragon Arts Inner Transmission "Nine Fangs" (the attack itself is not described much, so we don't know exactly what it is)

This one is really hard to interpret, so it's possible you guys are completely right. That said, some thoughts.

As I understand it, you guys are breaking things down this way:
天霧辰明流中伝 = [Amagiri][Dragon][Bright][Inner Transmission]

Are you guys accounting for the 流 in 明流? While 明 does mean bright or clear, 明流 instead means "free-flowing" (in Chinese anyway).

There doesn't seem to be any similarities in Japanese, though extrapolating from the existing kanji-pair words with 明 at the start you could get 'clear-flowing'. Though now I think of it, given that 明 can mean 'light', it could be 'light flow' or 'light stream' as well...

Ah... actually, now I remember why I translated it as such, there's furigana everywhere saying exactly how to pronounce it so which particular meaning they want. Let me cut, paste, and de-mangle:

天霧 (あまぎり)
辰 (しん)
明 (めい) <- brightness/clarity
流 (りゅう) <- style of/method of/manner of
剣 (けん)
術 (じゅつ)
初 (しょ)
伝 (でん)
――
貳 (ふたつ)
蛟龍 (みずち)

Personally, I wouldn't go with "transmission" for 伝 in this case. The Japanese seems to carry the meanings of: 1: legend; tradition; 2: biography; life; 3: method; way (according to jisho). The third definition seems the most fitting contextually, although it doesn't have that meaning in Chinese, so I can't comment. Given the Chinese, however, I'd say the first definition is most likely.

The original reason I didn't go with method/way was there was the phrase already seemed to be overloaded with 'style', 'method', 'technique' and so on style words, so I figured he was wanting to focus more on the 'transmission' side of things. But now we've got another example with less repetition it looks like it might be more correct to use method/way.

As for the technique itself, I'd say 太刀 is necessary. It should be something along the lines of "Nine-fanged Sword".

Yeah, I think the 'sword' is important. I'm pretty sure there is a historical weapon known as a 'tusked sword', but there's no way easy way to find decent historical stuff on weaponry on the internet with all the MMO/RPG crud bubbling to the top. I wonder if the 'fangs' are envisaged like the hook on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachiwara

Meh, probably over-thinking this.

[denormative]

Anyway, before we go further, the furigana for this one, since I think it might actually answer a few questions:

Same as the first:
天霧 (あまぎり)
辰 (しん)
明 (めい)
流 (りゆう)
Where it differs:
中 (ちゆう)
伝 (でん)

九 (く)
牙 (が)
太刀 (たち)

So yeah, I think from here 伝 would hint more as 'way' or 'tradition', but it still doesn't produce as nice English as I'd like.

呑 means swallowing, so yes, "Engulfing Dragon" works well.

Sounds much cooler. Much much cooler. Still, I think I'd stick with denormative's snapdragon, since that's an actual flower, and her Strega abilities are flower-based.

FYI, "Snapdragon" is literally the common name in English for the Antirrhinum Majus (they're named like that since the flowers look like little 'dragon mouths', and you can press on the sites of them and they'll open and close); so it's not technically a translation. (Grandmother and great-grandmother both had ridiculous flower gardens; I never quite expected my knowledge of botany would be useful in translation. >.> )

Actually, I was curious about the Bright vs. Flowing, but since it was already up, I didn't give it much thought. I'd say it's closer to "Clear Flowing Dragon" in a literal sense, so it might be better to go with that? I'll leave that to the official translators.

Covered in a previous post, hopefully the furigana will give a hint.

[denormative]

過励万応現象 -- Over-Excitation Total Response Phenomenon really is a mouthful, so maybe Overflow (as in, beyond the limit) Response Phenomenon. It flows a little better. Up to whoever.

Pretty sure 万応 here is a reference to mana, and not meant to be translated literally. Given the context, the idea is essentially that you're stimulating (励) mana (万応) past capacity (過). I'm not sure what the best way to phrase that would be, maybe "mana overdrive phenomenon" ("drive" being a synonym for "motivate")?

Pretty sure 万応 here is a reference to mana, and not meant to be translated literally. Given the context, the idea is essentially that you're stimulating (励) mana (万応) past capacity (過). I'm not sure what the best way to phrase that would be, maybe "mana overdrive phenomenon" ("drive" being a synonym for "motivate")?

Good point. I never even gave the "Mana" part a thought. Then Mana Overflow Phenomenon would probably work just as well.

From a PM, so I don't have to rewrite it:

If I'm reading right, the 'Star Power' excites the 'Mana Dite' to produce the 'Lux's effect, in the same way putting power into a metal/gas excites the electrons in it in a lightbulb to produce light. So if you're dumping more 'Star Power' in your 'Mana Dite', you're 'over-exciting' it, thus causing bigger effects in the same way you can alter light brightness by increasing the voltage.

I like Over-Excited Mana Phenomenon myself. From the context, it's supposed to sound scientific and precise, thus in English it would sound somewhat 'clunky' and alien sounding; so I don't think simplifying it too much is necessary, especially if it's only used one or twice.

Also, regarding Lux, rather than calling them "Shining Type Armament" and "Pure Star Type Armament", I think it would look better to just drop the word "Type" altogether. Also, saying Lux weapon and Ogre Lux weapon is a bit redundant, since they're already "Armaments." While I know there are non-weapon forms of Lux, for the sake of the story which uses Lux to refer to weapons, I think it's unnecessary.

I agree. It was probably hard to tease out, but I attempted to keep all singular forms of Lux and Ogre Lux as-is. I only used "weapons" to refer to them in the plural because I didn't want to say Luxes and Ogre Luxes, which I think looks stupid. That's just a personal preference thing though.

I find the 'Ogre' annoying myself. I know how it got there ('Oni' =~ 'Ogre'), but given his previous pattern of terms, I suspect he meant 'Demon' instead. I'd prefer if it was just 'Power Lux' myself.

I also tried to ditch the kanji translation in favor of the ruby whenever possible, using the {{Furigana}} notation only the first time 'round. Even though the Japanese usually presents the Japanese form minus its ruby in later instances, in English we usually just describe something, give it a name, and then stick with the name from then on. Again, simple personal preference.

Personally, I like to keep the Ruby as the base in all instances and use the meaning in the description. You could probably see this in some of my later pdf files, but essentially, it would be {{furigana:《Genestella》|Starpulse Generation}} or whatever the notation is.

I think I prefer Hiyono's method myself. It does get rid of a lot of the ludicrously long text used in furigana.

... ug. I think I've caught up now. >.<

[Hiyono]

Thoughts on Lester's nickname? 轟遠烈斧 with ruby of Kornephoros.

[EnigmaticAxiom]

Furious Axe of (Distant) Thunder?

[denormative]

Furious Axe of (Distant) Thunder?

Yeah, definitely needs the 'Distant' in there. ("Distant thunder" has connotations of 'threatening' in English too, so that works nicely.) I'm not quite sure how that constellation fits into it though. Granted an axe and a club both have the same feeling of primitive melee weapons.

An annoyance from chapter 3:

擬形体 =~ quasi-(forms/figures/shapes)
I'm not sure what term to use, none of them really work. 形体 can also be translated as "one's appearance" apparently, so I'm inclined to translate it as 'quasi-humans', given they're called 'puppet's.