ばか！バカ！　馬鹿ー月！

I agree with Hocc.. I said that earlier...

hobogunner wrote:I think that we should just leave it as links to their main page:

I.E.: http://www.baka-tsuki.org

Instead of: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... o_Syokanju

It is not ours to take, though we can spread around their name.

I agree with the link. But what about the ads below? It's TLG's revenue source to keep the wiki alive.

Though for the direct links to other blogs/etc for LNs, i'd prefer that it has a special wiki page for that, and not in the main page.

hobogunner wrote:I think that we should just leave it as links to their main page:

I.E.: http://www.baka-tsuki.org

Instead of: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... o_Syokanju

It is not ours to take, though we can spread around their name.

They are free to explore the site themselves. But what if their site is cluttered with random stuff that just makes it complicated. It's like receiving a youtube link to a specific video, doesn't deter them from exploring youtube, just makes it way organized. Sp I want to read SAO chapter 13. I click on this link and it redirects me to a site that is not showing ch 13 but some random site homepage. I have to figure out how to navigate that specific site to find this material. Why wouldn't you put the effort to make it easier and just link every ch individually.

Because the people who run that site tell us not to....?

There is no point to starting a war when there is no need.

Linking to the root of a site is all around easier and less troublesome on our admins.

omg, THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT AGAINST LINKING! if anything we are ADVERTISING their site. No one would say no to this. It's even on the outline of many sites to only 'Link" their chapters and not "copy and host" their work. And you say that updating a chapter link is harder than making sure translations/edits are not abused every single day? Can you actually see a site saying "Hey don't link us, we don't want an increase of people coming to our site and appreciating the translations we do"

lp113. No matter how much sense you make, your words do not carry weight. And you are starting to piss me off with all your talk and no action. You have made suggestions and talk about all the good stuff of this and that. But have you considered things like the negative impact and what work is required, what kind of activity is needed to maintain them? May I know what have you done to contribute baka-tsuki besides reading, some editing here and there, and making many suggestions? I'm not saying suggestions are bad, but they take time for us to consider and even if we find them good, we won't do it overnight. But so much talk in just a few days and getting a little ahead of yourself in your posting is definitely not helping you. If you want to make yourself heard, to have your words carry weight, you have to earn the right.

lp113 wrote:omg, THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT AGAINST LINKING! if anything we are ADVERTISING their site. No one would say no to this. It's even on the outline of many sites to only 'Link" their chapters and not "copy and host" their work. And you say that updating a chapter link is harder than making sure translations/edits are not abused every single day? Can you actually see a site saying "Hey don't link us, we don't want an increase of people coming to our site and appreciating the translations we do"

Sir, first off, I'm going to have you to pull back your reins a little, you have suggested about 4-5 different things for us to do, and recognize we cannot respond to them all easily, as some things take time.

Secondly, all the sites that are linked for Durarara!! which is the example that you gave I see no problem with the layout, and believe that there is quite simple access. In fact, there is absolutely no way to link to an entire volume, so unless someone went in and put it up chapter by chapter linking, then it just won't work. (I would also advise against this chapter-by-chapter, as the site doing it may have an important announcement or something of the sort, regarding their translations.) The linking to their pure site isn't to inconvenience our readers, it is simply so that they can see everything that the group offers. Unless you have run a translation show, you don't recognize how much better it feels to be linked to your main page, not just a post you made. Most of these places are small and doing 1 volume or less, so finding things isn't a problem whatsoever. It is not ours to share any deeper than their front page, therefore unless we get express permission to link every chapter (which I would not allow, if it was my show), the status quo will not change.

Sincerely,
-hobogunner

Hobo, Lar, It is not in my power to do anything else but what I have done. A series needed editing, I went and edited. Updates needed to be posted, I went and updated. This forum thread is made for feedback/suggestions, I made as many as I could to help improve B-T. I saw how there was a vurnablity in using made pdf's to be bought and sold, and helped give B-T the credit by asking all pdf makers to create a credits page to notify people that this was worked on by B-T contributions. I can not create new series and link them even when the site gives permission, since I neither have the powers nor your approval. I can not help code a front page only offer suggestions to how to improve it, since again there is a thread to "improve mainsite". As far as I know it, im a pretty good B-T member. Active, helps out, gives feedback in a feedback forum thread... Would you rather me not give suggestions, not edit, and just read? I already said I can help do these changes I'm suggesting. And it hurts my pride a little to say I edit here and there... I know Lar you do a lot, but I edited every single chapter after v1 of SAO basically either on this site or on the google docs rough translations before the chapters are posted here (since v1 was made before I came to B-T and it was already pretty edited).

Okay okay, enough guys. LP you have good intentions, but your tone is getting way too harsh and its setting off some people. Yes maybe we do have to standardize something, but give it time. Everything takes time for something like that. Let the big guys discuss it and implement it. Lare was sort of out of line with the "words not having weight" but still, don't walk in like a captain of a ship and steer the damn thing.

Copyright is still a big issue, and while we may not have copyright on the pdf's, we still translate LICENSED Light Novels. (Japanese, but still) So we have to take it seriously, as we are one of the bigger LN Translation sites we could go down hard because of the amount of things that we have. When I was active on the forums pdf's were just fan made items, we took a hands off approach to that.

Right now it looks like you're annoyed about not getting credit for your work which I can sympathize with. However, demanding and shouting at people to get things done is not the way to do it. Please tone it down.

If this gets out of hand anymore I will ask someone to close this topic. End of Discussion.

I'm still here and going to be here if you need any help making these changes. As I said before, my only wish is to expand the B-T community since I love this site and want it to grow. I'm offering help out on all of these suggestions i'm putting out for the administration to take into consideration. Taking 20 minutes out of my day to add new chapter updates or series is nothing compared to what you translators spend hours on translations. Trying to make a difference in what I can possibly do. Thanks Poke for hearing me out.

Maybe we should make the sidebar even bigger lol? Or add it to the main page. Anyone seem like that would be better?

Hm... Basically I think it's a good idea, but I'd suggest not adding those links to the navigation. The navigation is already way too cluttered in its current state. I'd prefer copying our comrades at TLWiki and creating a special page dedicated to off-site light novel projects as shown here. This way you can visualize much more data at one glance and it's editable by any member, making it easy to keep the list up-to-date (though I don't like the idea of abusing MediaWiki for a database).

So the another page idea basically? Seems legit.

If we grab all the Offsite LN Translation sites we can add links like crazy to everything.
Link the project pages/chapter pages on the wiki.

Sidebar needs changes =/ I have no suggestion on fixing the Navigation on that though sadly, one day B-T will have too much to list by itself even without these affiliate series. I'm thinking you really might have to make a separate page.. since nothing comes to mind. It's just too much stuff for one bar.

You guys do realize that all these is for naught if TLG or Oni don't agree with that, right? And to be honest, there isn't really much urgency in this, so if you guys want to demand for changes, ask for them one at a time, and do not be too forceful.