[Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

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Should BT remove the concept of linked project.

Yes
8
20%
No
24
60%
Maybe with some changes
8
20%
 
Total votes: 40

KuroiHikari
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[Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by KuroiHikari »

With less and less people wanting to put their actual content onto BT and the fact that LN is now more popular outside BT, I think that BT is no longer needed as a source to reach out to people for these blogs. As such, I am proposing that we remove linked projects and refocus BT as a hub for contribution. BT should not turn into an aggregator for LNs

Explain your reasons.
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Re: Removing the notion of linked projects

Post by KuroiHikari »

Plain votes will just represent opinion.
If you strongly feel about this, please post your opinion with your reasons why this is bad or good.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by TheCatWalk »

While I am against outright removing them. I do feel a bit reluctant that some of the linked projects are in the main project section. Those arent even bt project.
I propose we create a new section or something for linked projects with less that one volume worth of actual content on bt and remove them from the main projects section.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by veritatis cupitor »

Edited due to change of view.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by KuroiHikari »

I know this is a drastic change but it'll really help keep BT focused.
The whole linked project concept just doesn't make too much sense, cuz once you clicked into the 1st chapter, you don't need the link to the 2nd chapter.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by cloudii »

I personally don't like the idea of having two sections. We actually got rid of the two sections (they used to be called "hosted projects") a while back because there were quite a few projects that have both wiki contributors and outside translation groups working on it.

I personally favor a smaller wiki (less linking), but I won't be supporting any changes until it looks like the idea is more popular.

While I doubt this idea is very widespread right now, feel free to restart the poll again a couple months or year in the future when you think public opinion has changed. Or try the admin forums.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by KuroiHikari »

I'll just leave here to gather feedback for now (if only people actually gave feedback).
I personally would want to push for this as part of the restructuring of BT but I think perhaps there may be a more middle-ground approach to these. (opinions please :D )
My personal stand is that the project page with individual chapter linking out externally doesn't work. Project pages perhaps should be reserved for projects hosted and contributed onto the BT wiki.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by larethian »

I am for removing them if the entire project consists of purely external links, as while people can use BT as an easy means to access the external projects, the linked projects do not bring anything to the table and contribute anything back to BT. It is a one-way benefit which makes no sense to me and should not have been allowed in the first place in my opinion.
External translations sites are already linked and they are already many ways available (fb/twitter/various forums/etc.) to get people to be aware of them.

However, if the project is such that it consists of a mix of external and non-external translations, then it should be allowed.
Translators who opt to have their content directly available on BT and wish to also link to the corresponding external project page can be allowed as well.

That's my take.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by Simon »

I'm against removing the linked projects. B-T is there to host LN projects, be it local or external.
larethian wrote:the linked projects do not bring anything to the table and contribute anything back to BT
Nyeh. The do, they don't and they don't need to.

1. They are translating a novel
2. You know that someone is translating it
3. For some time the wiki is used as a gateway, generating traffic and hist (both is good)
4. BREX is able to access the links that are displayed and allows mobile reading
5. You don't have to maintain it

Well, this is only my opinion but B-T's ideology is to share the interesting content to different demographics. And I'd rather make it stay that way.
People wanting to host their own stuff and have full control of it is also good. You don't have to worry about takedowns or any strange thing that come with translations as it's not directly on B-T.

If they follow the rules and maintain the page themselves and choose to put their link there, why not ? It's not you doing it. You glance over it. It looks ok and you go on. And all three sides are happy.
One has full control of their translations, the other has no need to care about that page unless it breaks a rule and the third can find the novel and read it on BREX.

Win-Win-Win situation ?
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by veritatis cupitor »

Edited.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by Cthaeh »

I vaguely support the original suggestion in the long term, but am hesitant to support it immediately.

Some thoughts on topics raised in other posts, BT currently functions both as a translation community and a hub for people to find translations. Removing the links makes sense if you consider BT as only a translation community as a place for people to host translations. I vaguely support it the long term because I believe there are benefits to splitting those two pieces, but am hesitant because I think the hub aspect is important as long as there's no appropriate alternative.

Also, I wouldn't say linked translations don't cost any effort to maintain. It may be because of self-imposed rules, but in terms of project page management, I might spend more time trying to resolve issues with linked projects compared to normal BT projects; recently that has mostly been the instances of people engaging in commercial activity or hosting licensed series. I'm not saying that by itself is a reason to get rid of all of them, but just pointing out that linked projects do have their own set of issues from a managerial point of view.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by Won-Tola »

I'm against removing them completely, but maybe as a requirement to be linked in BT they could post their work in here as a normal project but add a link to their page in the main page of the project.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by WakuKun »

I'm not sure about this.

Sure it's making no sense, that people share or 'advertise' their external translations on BT since it is possible to search for translations, advertise them and stuff via all the social networks like facebook, twitter and else.

So the already linked external translations on BT only help visitors to maybe find the translation they're searching for. It somehow has nothing to do with BT, unless someone creates a BT Project out of it.

Though, maybe some of the external translators consider to upload their translations on BT as soon as they have like some more translation to show.
I think external translators who share their links to external translations here should be asked, if they would like to create BT Projects. Maybe they just don't know how to start a BT Project or they do not know how the wiki works (just like me at first, oh well..).

So, I wouldn't remove all the external links from BT by now, but ask the external translators, who already have shared their links to their external projects, to create a BT Project. Maybe they already have. Otherwise, I guess they have reasons for their decision to not create a BT Project. So I think it might be a good idea to ask them about their doubts. Maybe it is necessary to change some other rules to help get translators back to BT if that's the main issue, idk.

I think it might be a good idea, to make a rule that doesn't allow to advertise on BT for external translations in future.

Does anyone know how many external links are on BT? Just to get a little overview about the issue.
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by Cthaeh »

WakuKun wrote:Does anyone know how many external links are on BT? Just to get a little overview about the issue.
I'ts not quite number of links, but a few months ago I did do a survey of projects with links for another reason, so I have a somewhat accurate list of those projects (including ones that both have text on BT and links).
Spoiler! :
Cthaeh wrote:I was looking through all projects containing links to external sites and I thought I'd post the list of them here since it's relevant, though I started doing it for a different reason. Teasers and Main Projects are mixed together. I think I got them all, but there's a reasonable possibility I missed something. This is only projects where the chapters are linked; it ignores projects with hosted text and a single link (or a few links) to the external site. Some of them are the proper project names, some are my shorthand.

Baccano
Dawnbringer
Etsusa Bridge
Famima!
Fuyuu Gakuen no Alice and Shirley
Gakuen Kino
Gekka no Utahime to Magi no Ou
GJ-Bu
Hai to Gensou no Grimgal
Hundred
Iriya no Sora UFO no Natsu
Kill No More
Knight's and Magic
Kono Subarashii Sekai ni Shukufuku o!
Kore wa Zombie desu ka?
Lillia to Treize
Love★You
Maou-ppoi no
Mayo Chiki!
Mismarca Koukoku Monogatari
Moonlight Sculptor
Mushi Uta
Ojamajo Doremi 16
Onii-chan Dakedo Ai Sae Areba Kankei Nai yo ne—
Ore ga Ojou-Sama Gakkou ni ‘Shomin Sample’ Toshite Usarareta Ken
Ore to Kanojo ga Geboku de Dorei de Shuujuu Keiyaku
Oreimo
Overlord
Queen's Knight Kael
Rokka no Yuusha
Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?
Rune Troopers
Saekano
Sakurasou
Samayou Shinki no Duelist
Sasami-san@Ganbaranai
Sayonara Piano Sonata
Seitokai no Ichizon
Sekai Ichi no Imouto-sama
Shinonome Yuuko wa Tanpen Shousetsu o Aishite Iru
Sugar Dark
The Indecent Relationship between Four Lovers
Tsuki Tsuki!
Usotsuki Mii-kun to Kowareta Maa-chan
Vamp
Wordmaster
Yahari
Yuusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shuushoku o Ketsui Shimashita
Allison
Altina
Amagi Brilliant Park
Ark
Baccano
Boku to Kanojo no Game Sensou
Clotaku Club
Coiling Dragon
Desolate Era
Fate/Zero
Haganai
Hakushaku to Yousei
Hyouketsu Kyoukai no Eden
Kikou Shoujo wa Kizutsukanai
Maou na Anoko to Murabito A
Maoyuu Maou Yuusha
Maru-MA
Moonlight Sculptor
MT
Netgame no Yome
New Gate
Sakurasou
Shinrei Tantei Yakumo
Shippai Kinshi
Slave Harem
Sorcerous Stabber Orphen
Tate
Wordmaster
World Teacher
Yahari
Zhan Long
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Re: [Proposal] Removing the system of linked projects

Post by WakuKun »

Cthaeh wrote:
WakuKun wrote:Does anyone know how many external links are on BT? Just to get a little overview about the issue.
I'ts not quite number of links, but a few months ago I did do a survey of projects with links for another reason, so I have a somewhat accurate list of those projects (including ones that both have text on BT and links).
Spoiler! :
Cthaeh wrote:I was looking through all projects containing links to external sites and I thought I'd post the list of them here since it's relevant, though I started doing it for a different reason. Teasers and Main Projects are mixed together. I think I got them all, but there's a reasonable possibility I missed something. This is only projects where the chapters are linked; it ignores projects with hosted text and a single link (or a few links) to the external site. Some of them are the proper project names, some are my shorthand.

Baccano
Dawnbringer
Etsusa Bridge
Famima!
Fuyuu Gakuen no Alice and Shirley
Gakuen Kino
Gekka no Utahime to Magi no Ou
GJ-Bu
Hai to Gensou no Grimgal
Hundred
Iriya no Sora UFO no Natsu
Kill No More
Knight's and Magic
Kono Subarashii Sekai ni Shukufuku o!
Kore wa Zombie desu ka?
Lillia to Treize
Love★You
Maou-ppoi no
Mayo Chiki!
Mismarca Koukoku Monogatari
Moonlight Sculptor
Mushi Uta
Ojamajo Doremi 16
Onii-chan Dakedo Ai Sae Areba Kankei Nai yo ne—
Ore ga Ojou-Sama Gakkou ni ‘Shomin Sample’ Toshite Usarareta Ken
Ore to Kanojo ga Geboku de Dorei de Shuujuu Keiyaku
Oreimo
Overlord
Queen's Knight Kael
Rokka no Yuusha
Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?
Rune Troopers
Saekano
Sakurasou
Samayou Shinki no Duelist
Sasami-san@Ganbaranai
Sayonara Piano Sonata
Seitokai no Ichizon
Sekai Ichi no Imouto-sama
Shinonome Yuuko wa Tanpen Shousetsu o Aishite Iru
Sugar Dark
The Indecent Relationship between Four Lovers
Tsuki Tsuki!
Usotsuki Mii-kun to Kowareta Maa-chan
Vamp
Wordmaster
Yahari
Yuusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shuushoku o Ketsui Shimashita
Allison
Altina
Amagi Brilliant Park
Ark
Baccano
Boku to Kanojo no Game Sensou
Clotaku Club
Coiling Dragon
Desolate Era
Fate/Zero
Haganai
Hakushaku to Yousei
Hyouketsu Kyoukai no Eden
Kikou Shoujo wa Kizutsukanai
Maou na Anoko to Murabito A
Maoyuu Maou Yuusha
Maru-MA
Moonlight Sculptor
MT
Netgame no Yome
New Gate
Sakurasou
Shinrei Tantei Yakumo
Shippai Kinshi
Slave Harem
Sorcerous Stabber Orphen
Tate
Wordmaster
World Teacher
Yahari
Zhan Long
Thank you, Cthaeh!

I didn't expect so many projects to be affected with that issue. I took a quick random look at some of the projects listed, and I honestly think it is pretty annoying to find myself on another external website after (innocently) clicking on a chapter. People should be warned that the link will lead to another external website! Honestly!

I think it isn't safe to allow everyone to just link their own 'translation blogs' to the wiki.

Man I think this is a serious problem.

Somehow, I think people should be asked to create wiki-pages for their translations. If they don't want to, I'd delete their stuff, because it might be not safe for wiki-visitors. Also, I think it is a good idea to completely forbid that linking-stuff in future.

If that's too rude, I think the affected chapter names should include a warning in future, like 'Chapter 1 [external link]'. But that's........ nah.. since it is also bad for the appearance of the wiki.
(I came out on a site with mustard color background and it seriously hurt my eyes.)

Besides there's the question what's happening to the external sites in future. Maybe they're going to be deleted without any warning. Maybe the external projects are going to be abandoned. How should another translator take care of the translation after that? And how will we know that the project is abandoned? Just by guessing? Naaaah..

Though I would like to know why people do such stuff. No offense, though I think that's not ok the way it is.
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