Proposal: Main Page Update

[Akirasav]

In order to grow Baka-Tsuki and garner greater readership, I suggest we make BT more accessible and intuitive for new users. As such, I propose the following:

1. Revamp the main page
2. Creation of project summary pages
3. Creation of a FAQ

Click here to see the proposed main page. (Follow the links to see the other proposed pages.)

As a new user to BT back in the day, I had trouble finding out exactly what BT is. I searched in vain on the main page for info, and instead pieced together my knowledge of the site over many weeks. Heck, it was months before I even realized we had forums!

Consequently, I think we should make an effort to make BT more user friendly to the new guy. Hopefully this will boost our readership, sustaining BT for years to come.

Assumed Problem:
People who first enter the website want to know what the site is about and go to the main page. However, they are unable to quickly find what they are looking for and consequently leave the site for good.

Proposed Solution:
Update the main page and create associated pages to meet the needs of new users.

I hope that you agree with me in principal for the need for these changes. And of course each element is open to debate.

Akira



Specific notes on the Main Page

Spoiler! :

I’m sure the graphic artists among us can create an appropriate set of images to put in the placeholders.

I basically just made the main page as short, simple, and aesthetically pleasing as possible.

With regards to the things that are being removed: The self-introduction can easily be put on the About page. The supervisors section seems redundant with the “Current Staff” page. The other two items are moved to the bottom of the page as they are less relevant to the new user.

The Light Novel Database is somewhat optional, I thought it might be useful to some new readers; so I put it there.

Specific notes on Visual Novel Projects and Light Novel Projects.

Spoiler! :

The summary pages are a simplified version of the Projects page that Holy Cow once proposed.

I find the “Project Status” through “Recruiting” sections to be largely unnecessary. For the new guy they are just distractions, while they are not needed by the rest of us. All projects are active (at least on the proposed page) and virtually every project is recruiting (with minor exceptions). And when was the last time you needed to look up the names of multiple Project Supervisors?

I ordered the light novels by popularity as it is more useful for the new guy (as opposed to an alphabetical sorting). I assume a new user would be most interested in reading what others are reading. But if you guys have better ideas we can debate it.

Optimally, people familiar with each project would write the corresponding synopsis. I would suggest that each of the summaries be 3-4 sentences long and in the active voice (vs passive voice.) This makes the summaries concise and interesting respectively. This may also require rewording or writing a completely new synopsis.

Specific notes on the FAQ page.

Spoiler! :

I suppose the first question that comes to mind is: do we even need a FAQ? As for me, I definitely was wondering what a light novel is when I first came to BT. And I imagine that for every new person that I've seen ask about making an edit, there are five more who are thinking about it but don't ask.

The questions I put down are just what first came to mind. Feel free to insert better answers or questions if you have them.

[onizuka-gto]

Just had a quick browse, i'll keep my comment short for now, as it's a bit late for me to give you a more detailed analysis.

However I can see what you did there, almost forum like, segmented by genre.

But a question wouldn't that more or less make the side bar redundant?

Also related, do you have any detailed proposals in the reform of the side bar, followed by some examples? such as the link above?

(makes it easier for me to simply cut and paste if any reformat is agreed upon)

I'll be back with more after tomorrow after I woken up.

[Akirasav]

But a question wouldn't that more or less make the side bar redundant?

I see your point about the redundancy, Oni.

Look at it this way:

A new person not familiar with any of the projects decides to read one. But where to begin? It would take a considerable amount of time and effort to click on each of the sidebar links individually. I think it is much more convenient for the new guy to read the projects page.

(Side note: the projects page was helpful even for me. I had never bothered to click all the links myself, so I was surprised by few of the projects we had )

Main Point: The projects page is sort of like a stepping stone. First you use the projects page. Then, once you are familiar with the projects, you use the sidebar.

Also related, do you have any detailed proposals in the reform of the side bar, followed by some examples? such as the link above?

I assume that you're thinking that if the side bar is redundant, then one has to go or needs to be changed. But as I pointed out, they are both useful, just for different reasons. As such, I recommend we keep the sidebar as is.

Pleasant dreams!

[Zyzzyva165]

Just some opinion of mine.

The current layout of the main page looks fine to me. However, I agree strongly with Akira that we need to highlight the light novels and especially, the forum. If Shadow hadn't tipped me off that we have a forum, I would probably be still oblivious of it. Some visitors may miss this small link in the midst of the huge list of things at the sidebar. So I would suggest adding 2 more headlines - "Light novel projects" (the one HolyCow did) and a link to the forum, with a brief explanation.

As for the proposed main page, I find the layout changes not very necessary, but nevertheless a viable option.

[Krikit]

I think this is a viable point as well. I don't even know how I found the forums...but sometime a couple months after the I first visited the wiki, in my evergoing sense for more Spice and Wolf, I managed to come across it. (I'm pretty sure one day I was just clicking all the links on the sidebars, lol)

I can't really say it's redundant though. The sidebar just lists the titles. This new Main Page proposal woudn't list the titles, it would just give a quick overview of B-T to the average newcommer. They would SEE easily that B-T consists of Translated Light Novels, and Visual Novels. That it has a Forum, and etc etc.

Then for experiences users, (I guess I can include myself?) who already have their pages bookmarked, they rarely go to the Main Page again. Just open B-T from a bookmarked page, and then use the sidebars to navigate to new material.

I like Akira's new design, though maybe keep the "Self Introductions of the Founder" part or whatever as well, I think that would be okay. With the list of the Administrative Staff.

[quethiril]

I like having a centralized place with summaries of all series. I did click through all the links in the sidebar, but I think it's easier at first to have a one-stop-shop.

I don't think it's necessary to completely redo the main page (but I'm not opposed to it either), but I strongly support having just the first paragraph. Right now, the main page doesn't even mention Japanese novels. It just says "translation community". (Yes, it has the word "novel" in the sidebar, but people might not even get that far.)

[Akirasav]

As for the proposed main page, I find the layout changes not very necessary, but nevertheless a viable option.

Do you mean that you don't think the changes are necessary to you personally? Or that the changes are unnecessary for everyone? My point is that these changes will help out new guy, but not real change anything for older folks like you and me Zyzzyva165. So its natural if you feel that the changes are not beneficial to you personally.

I like Akira's new design, though maybe keep the "Self Introductions of the Founder" part or whatever as well, I think that would be okay. With the list of the Administrative Staff.

Krikit, in my "notes" I suggested that the self-introduction be moved to the About page to keep the Main Page simple. I also felt that the Admin list was redundant with the Current Staff page. I'm not sure if you read that part. Do you still think they are better left on the main page?

...I strongly support having just the first paragraph. Right now, the main page doesn't even mention Japanese novels. It just says "translation community". (Yes, it has the word "novel" in the sidebar, but people might not even get that far.)

Thanks, I thought it was very helpful too.

----

All that said, I'm glad that everyone seems to see the need for some of the changes.

[b0mb3r]

as a young lad after finished season 1 of haruhi i became obess to hunt down any translated novels. once finish all translated novel i hunt for this forum to express my love of this series. i thank google of this task.

my opinion. yeah it does get a bit confusing, with the main page since it lacks an attraction. to me it looks like any standard wikia. still i find the four links a bit distracting, as if out of place

[Akirasav]

Here’s another look at what I’m trying to do.

People who visit the site can be divided into three groups:

Enthusiasts
Enthusiasts will go to great lengths to find a wiki and forums about light novels. Most of the people currently at BT, myself included, fall into this group.

Intrigued
Intrigued are moderately interested in light novels and would likely join a forum. However, they don’t want to spend too much time trying to figure out yet another websites system.

Indifferent
Indifferent have no interest in light novels. Regardless of the effort spent, this group can’t be persuaded to join BT.

Note that no special actions need to be taken for the “Enthusiasts” or the “Indifferent.” They will join/not join regardless of what the main page looks like. However, to get the “Intrigued” to join, special attention needs to be given. The bar needs to be lowered for them, so to speak. I feel that this group has been neglected thus far.

Also note that the “Enthusiasts” are not really hurt by these changes as they will stop it nothing to join.

These changes are a way of reaching out the “Intrigued” class of visitors who might join if the website is streamlined to meet their needs.

[Zyzzyva165]

Do you mean that you don't think the changes are necessary to you personally? Or that the changes are unnecessary for everyone? My point is that these changes will help out new guy, but not real change anything for older folks like you and me Zyzzyva165. So its natural if you feel that the changes are not beneficial to you personally.

Yes, I would say unnecessary for everyone. ("It" refers to the changes to the layout to that of this forum.) IMHO, the big headline and then some details underneath (the current one) is not a bad one.

And as said, the proposed layout is a viable option nevertheless.

[onizuka-gto]

right, first of, after more or a reflection, restructuring the front page seems like a better idea each time I ponder about it.

However, creating a two layer approach to categorise the titles we currently have on the sidebar, in my opinion is taking a step backwards.

In that respect I think the sidebar should continue to contain the links to the viable projects.

However the I do agree we must do something about the rest of the links, to which we must prioritizing the association with the forum and the IRC channel, followed by the guidelines.

The creation of a FAQ is an interesting idea, perhaps a limited one, as it can help solve a few quick answer, such as pointing our new readers tot he guideline forum, quick guide to using the wiki so that they can hit the floor running. etc.

Many of the questions we are frequently asked only need a quick link to the relevant guides that are already available, but as we have come to realise were simply not advertised or easily discovered.

In regards to the other links such as "main page", "About", "Current Staff" and "salutation"

I agree in scrapping the first redundant link, for the second, it is an important but perhaps not so vital to the day to day working of the wiki.perhaps simply moving it to a less popular hotspot as a reader only has to read it once.

As for current staff page, hmm. I'm not really sure.

On one hand it is an important page for readers to find the relevant contacts, but on the other hand they can simply find out the contact details via the forum.

I'm still not sure about this one, I'll leave it aside for now.

"salutation" could be seen as redundancy, as much salutation can be conducted on the forum, but at the same time...hmmm...

another difficulty to decided.

Oh, in regards to the light novel database, I do believe it will be obsolete, as I recently discovered via Animesuki, that the contributors for that project has moved on to db.lightnovel.org , whether we should pursue our own version is up for debate as to be honest, an independent wiki with it's own infrastructure and resources does seem like a far sensible choice for a serious database collection then to have it to depend on Baka-Tsuki.

This will also bring in question into the reform of the teasers as should we simply scrap the teaser section and move all existing teasers to the new db.lightnovel.org ?


well that should give you more food for thought.....

[Darklor]

Uh, I dont think you should scrap the teasers. First they are also Baka-tsuki projects (of some sorts), second they can be used as a start point for a full feldged project what also already happened to some of the old teaser projects, third db.lightnovel.org is not a (real) Baka-tsuki project, right? (and at the moment they dont even have entries for the (real) Baka-tsuki projects)

[Akirasav]

However, creating a two layer approach to categorise the titles we currently have on the sidebar, in my opinion is taking a step backwards.

So you're suggesting that if we make a projects page, it would have all the light novel and visual novel projects together?

Many of the questions we are frequently asked only need a quick link to the relevant guides that are already available, but as we have come to realise were simply not advertised or easily discovered.

Very true. And most people are too lazy to read through all the guides looking for a specific answer


I hadn't thought about consolidating the links on the sidebar, but I agree that it is a good idea.

With regards to keeping/deleting the "current staff" page (or any page for that matter), we should ask our selves "is this page used by enough users to justify it?" and "does this page require updating/do we keep this page up to date?"

Take the "Salutations" page for example. How many people scan through all the links vs. how many people actually leave/read the salutations. Every extra link makes the sidebar little more complicated for everyone.

As for highlighting the forums and IRC, I think that they should keep their own box. If they are mixed in with other links, they will be lost in the shuffle. Perhaps move the links category to between the navigation and light novels. Then changing "links" to "Talk With Us!" or some name like that.

[onizuka-gto]

So you're suggesting that if we make a projects page, it would have all the light novel and visual novel projects together?

hmmm....

If you are going to consolidate all projects on to a single page, then I have to ask what is the primary objective of the restructure?
Will creating a new consolidating page with two layers be any efficient then the current one layer sidebar links?

If the primary objective is to enhance certain links at the expense of an more efficient structure on the sidebar, I'm not sure if I can compromise on that.

With regards to keeping/deleting the "current staff" page (or any page for that matter), we should ask our selves "is this page used by enough users to justify it?" and "does this page require updating/do we keep this page up to date?"

Take the "Salutations" page for example. How many people scan through all the links vs. how many people actually leave/read the salutations. Every extra link makes the sidebar little more complicated for everyone.

Well to be honest, these pages are rarely glanced at, the current staff was more or less just a fun page to play with.

But the "salutations" page is a valuable piece of B-T history, but it is dispensable. I doubt it will be missed. I can always translated it over to a archived thread on the forum.

As for highlighting the forums and IRC, I think that they should keep their own box. If they are mixed in with other links, they will be lost in the shuffle. Perhaps move the links category to between the navigation and light novels. Then changing "links" to "Talk With Us!" or some name like that.

I like this idea, It could occupy the location where the current navigation box is on the side line.

But do you think the links will be more effective on main page? Will it be necessary to have a redundant link to the forum on the sidebar as well?

Since your draft page clearly advertises the forum already...?

[Vaelis]

Hmm personally I would remove a lot of the links in the navigation bar and put them somewhere else.

The navigation bar would become:

Navigation
*Main Page <--we add in this page all the removed links: Current Staff, About Baka-Tsuki, Disclaimers, Format/Style guideline, Salutation and Official IRC Channel-->
*Projects presentation <--a page with a summary of all the projects-->
*Recent changes
*Baka-Tsuki Forum

Light Novels
*7 Nights
*Baccano!
*Baka to Tesuto to Syokanju
*Chrome Shelled Regios
*CubexCursedxCurious
*Fate/Zero
*Ginban Kaleidoscope
*Ghost Hunt
*Hidan no Aria
*Kara no Kyoukai
*Kaze no Stigma
*Kino no Tabi
*Maria-sama ga Miteru
*Mushi to Medama
*Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu
*PuiPui
*Read or Die
*Seikai no Senki
*Shakugan no Shana
*Slayers
*Spice and Wolf
*Strike Witches
*Suzumiya Haruhi
*To Aru Majutsu no Index
*Toradora!
*Zero no Tsukaima

Visual Novels
*Clannad
*Fate/Stay Night
*Tomoyo After

Teaser Projects <--a link to a page with all the teaser projects)

Category <--a link to a page with all the categories-->

-----------------------------------------
Only four links in the "Navigation" -> they stand out more (the top left is where you look for the most important links).
I don't see the point of having all the categories in the navigation bar -> we create a category page.
This way the "Teaser projects" are more visible since the link is alone.


For the projects presentation I would do it differently than here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... l_Projects
Instead of a list I would do a table with at least 3 or 4 columns.