Wiki Project Reorganization (2014 edition)

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Cthaeh
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Wiki Project Reorganization (2014 edition)

Post by Cthaeh »

EDIT: The proposal in this first post has now been implemented. There are some further ideas in the replies.

Kadi in Jan 2012 wrote:In my opinion, we have too many "true projects". There are more than 50 of them.
Quoting for the amusement that the same issue was raised two years ago, and now we have more than double the projects (53 then, 125 (129*) now).

This topic keeps coming up in recent discussions, but no solution has ever been formally approved. So I want to repeat the proposal to reduce the size of the sidebar by removing projects that have less than 1 complete volume, and make that the new standard for upgrading teaser projects.


This is a list of the 24 (26*) projects that would be removed by applying this rule: This is the list of 3 (5*) projects that would be removed, but currently have an active TL. (possible grandfathered exceptions)
Spoiler! :
Ero_Manga_Sensei
Fuyuu Gakuen no Alice and Shirley*
Maoyuu Maou Yuusha
Onii-chan_Dakedo_Ai_Sae_Areba_Kankei_Nai_yo_ne—
Rokka no Yuusha*
Any opinions, opposition, or support?

Note: *Some projects (both with and without 1 complete volume) are not currently on the sidebar, but it have been included in "Category:Light novel (English)", which, if I understand correctly, will be replacing the current sidebar list.

Edit: List last updated April 4th. (The list reflects the state before changes were implemented on April 14th, 2014)
Last edited by Cthaeh on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:26 am, edited 6 times in total.
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cautr
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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization

Post by cautr »

heya, I'm the supervisor of OniAi, as well as TL, editor, you name it. I've got no problem with this rule, I don't mind OniAi being a teaser again, I don't think inaban has either.

We will finish a volume eventually, and if we don't we can hardly be named a full project. If a one volume rule already scares off translators, then they simply don't qualify for TLing a full project.

So this'd cut the list down by roughly 20%, with no harm done.

Though I'd suggest to split the teaser list into English teaser and alternative language teaser, it'll get crowded otherwise.

Another way to further cut down the list would be to part them into active and inactive (no new content in half a year or a year (half a year's a lot of time already though) unless it has caught-up or is completed). Here I could understand if people don't like the idea.

Sorry if I just repeated stuff that has already been said, my head's not up for reading, caught a cold. Also sorry the above sounds gibberish, same reason.
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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization

Post by Nurin »

Also, Mayo Chiki! is close to the finish of the volume one, I need to translate only 20 pages... But I am without my laptop now :( Sad...
Call me Nurin!

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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization

Post by cloudii »

Cthaeh wrote: This topic keeps coming up in recent discussions, but no solution has ever been formally approved. So I want to repeat the proposal to reduce the size of the sidebar by removing projects that have less than 1 complete volume, and make that the new standard for upgrading teaser projects.
I know I mentioned this earlier in the QC thread, but I also strongly support the idea of reducing the aggregate size of the sidebar:
  • Projects should not be added to the sidebar until at least 1 volume is fully translated.
Here are several reasons why I think this is a good idea:
  • For readers randomly clicking along the sidebar for something new to read, it's frustrating to click a link and come upon a stalled project with 1-2 chapters translated.
  • One full volume translated is basically a standalone work. Even if the translator is gone/stalled (like Kamimemo), the existing completed translations are size-able enough for an enjoyable reading experience.
  • If less than one full volume is translated (and it's not foreseeable that it'll be finished soon), we shouldn't be advertising it to readers yet. To me (my opinion), it's still a teaser, since it's still an excerpt of a book. Would you go to the library to borrow half a book? Would you enjoy an anime episode that only is only subbed half way? For the sake of reader enjoyability, I think the sidebar should contain projects that reach a minimum level of continuity (1 full volume translated). The state OreGairu Project, for example (ignoring Spyro's Volume 7, bless him)... is not an enjoyable reader experience. Random single chapters of every volume translated gets frustrating for readers. It shouldn't be on the sidebar until one volume is finished entirely. Just my opinion, though.
Kira082 wrote:That's for BT Propanganda. Basically, it means "Hey guys, look how many projects there are, get interested and translate for us!"
Honestly, I don't think people are impressed by the size of the sidebar, or the number of projects BT has. I think everyone's well aware that BT has a ton of projects. At this point, I think people find the super-huge sidebar more of a hassle. Also, I think the #1 reader complaint (not counting "wen iz next TL coming?1!!"), is that projects are translated out of order. We can't do anything about that, but if we're thinking BT reputation, perhaps projects like HataMaou should be kept in teasers until a full volume is translated. Readers tend to have lower expectations for teasers than the sidebar projects.

On the other hand, if we maintain a full project listing like Series List, and put that in a HUGE link on the Main Page, readers shouldn't have a problem finding the smaller projects.

As for moving stalled, less-than-one-volume projects off the sidebar... (possibly back to teasers) we'd have to do that to shrink sidebar size. I think its fair to do that for projects that for which the translator has vanished. For active less-than-one-volume projects like OniiAi, cautr kindly volunteered that he'd be willing to take OniAi off the sidebar <3. In short: for active projects, we consult the active translators/supervisors if they're okay with it.

The more important implication is with the new upcoming projects. We get 1-5 new teasers every month. You can do the math pretty quickly. How big will the sidebar be in 2 years? I think we're around 80-100 items on the sidebar right now. 2 years ago I think we were around the 50-70 range(?). The sidebar can't sustain this kind of growth. T_______T;

EDIT: This thread should be merged with the pinned announcement sidebar thread, since that was moved out of the administration forum.
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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization (2014 edition)

Post by Talinnilat »

A slightly different suggestion that in no way conflicts with moving projects back to Teasers. What about moving the completed (no more books are coming out AND all are translated) to a new section on the sidebar? As a reader I'd find that useful and I know a lot of other people are the types who never started a series like the Wheel of Time until it was done or abandoned it part way through to wait until it's done. Some people like to binge on books like people are binging on seasons of House of Cards on Netflix. Just worked through over 20 volumes of Toaru Majutsu this last week myself.

Sidebar would look something like:
Network
Completed Light Novels
Ongoing Light Novels
Visual Novels
Cthaeh
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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization (2014 edition)

Post by Cthaeh »

It wouldn't be bad to have a Completed novels category, in fact we already have one, but I'm not sure I'd want those novels to be only in that category (I like all full project novels being in one category). There's currently only 12 there, and it might make harder for people to find those if they don't know to look there, though if it was right on the sidebar.

What complicates the situation a little is that the sidebar will be changing. It sounds like to just links to various categories, but I'm not sure exactly what Darkoneko has planned, or what it will end up as.
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Re: Wiki Project Reorganization (2014 edition)

Post by cloudii »

FYI: This is what DarkoNeko had in mind.

I'm playing messenger again, but Zzhk once suggested (and I agree with her), that in DarkoNeko's future sidebar, it'd be nice to list every single completed project one-by-one... for recognition purposes you know? Hall of fame-like thing.

EDIT: Lol I forgot the link: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index ... did=326512
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