Sword Art Online - Names and Terminology

[BeginnerXP]

Thank you for the opinions, I'll change them to Blue Rose Sword then.

[Tap]

Wouldn't "of" be more accurate due to the "の", though?

[KuroiHikari]

Wouldn't "of" be more accurate due to the "の", though?

Not necessary, no is just a particle that connects two nouns together, although you can join characters together the kanji way too

[Tap]

Yea, but "青薔薇剣" and "青薔薇の剣" are also both usable, but Kawahara chose the latter.

[Pryun]

adding の usually looks cooler, i guess. It's equivalent to 'of' in english in most cases, but not this one (to me)

[KuroiHikari]

Yea, but "青薔薇剣" and "青薔薇の剣" are also both usable, but Kawahara chose the latter.

Yea, I normally pick whichever flows nicer in English, I had encountered an instance where I had to put "of" between the Kanjis connected directly and join the parts connected by の, because it was just too weird the other way.

[BeginnerXP]

Well, I like 'of' in the middle as well, that's why I used Sword of Blue Rose at first. But when two editors (Pryun & M.A.D) whose English level is way beyond me prefer Blue Rose Sword, I will agree to their opinions.

[Shiroux]

The two are the same thing and naming sense has nothing to do with language proficiency, it's just personal preference. That's why there are often many debate on this subject.

[CorbanSaezer]

While they are all legitimate interpretations of the same kanji, they each place emphasis on different things. I have underlined what I feel is the emphasis.

Blue Rose Sword
Sword of Blue Rose
Blue Rose's Sword

It's hard to tell them apart because the possessor subject is not human. That our mind treats object and people associations differently is the product of evolutionary psychology. When you replace it with a person, I think the differences become more apparent because our minds take the distinction more seriously:

Corban Saezer Sword - Places equal emphasis on the parts
Sword of Corban Saezer - This sword is awesome because it is associated with Corban Saezer!
Corban Saezer's Sword - This sword made Corban Saezer awesome.

I don't have the Japanese text in front of me, but I offer the aforementioned examples to the translators so they can choose what fits. For this particular example, think about this: is the sword awesome because it's Blue Rose? Or is Blue Rose awesome because of the sword? If we know nothing about Blue Rose, then perhaps it is better to have Blue Rose Sword.

[Tap]

I'm bored and we seem to be doing an in-depth analysis for no reason, so I'll just do this.
Ways the sword is related to "blue rose":
- Blue rose decoration on the sword itself.
- Legend that a blue rose tripped random hero when he tried to take it.

By the first reference, Blue Rose Sword works fine.
It's a sword with a blue rose on it.

By the second, it's more towards Sword of (the) Blue Rose, since it's like that particular blue rose guards or possesses that sword.
("the" might had actually be suitable since it refers to that particular blue rose from the legend.)

Either way, it works. Yay!
Seriously though, I suggest you use whichever looks better to you, Beginner, since you're the translator here.
They're in all proper English, so that's a moot point.

[BeginnerXP]

Well, thanks for all the analysis. I already edited the wiki since my last post anyway. Both names work fine, just I need it to be consistent, not Blue Rose Sword in one chapter, and Sword of Blue Rose in another chapter. I wouldn't raise this issue if the anon didn't touch the term, his other edits are very good so I'm not sure if I got it wrong or not.

[Drake]

Well, thanks for all the analysis. I already edited the wiki since my last post anyway. Both names work fine, just I need it to be consistent, not Blue Rose Sword in one chapter, and Sword of Blue Rose in another chapter. I wouldn't raise this issue if the anon didn't touch the term, his other edits are very good so I'm not sure if I got it wrong or not.

Hiya,

I'm the anon in question... Fairly new so still working my way through the site but found this and thought I might as well register and mention the reasons why 'Sword of Blue Rose' is incorrect (Blue Rose Sword is fine, but I feel loses some of the grandeur associated with the weapon)
The main reason is because 'rose' is singular and therefore for proper English requires an article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_%28grammar%29). This equates to naming the weapon as 'Sword of the Blue Rose'; in this case the double link between the Blue Rose from legend and the rose on the hilt is apparent.

With pluralisation, such a name as 'Sword of Blue Roses' would be perfectly fine as a zero article is generally allowed with plural forms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-marki ... ro_article)

Going back to 'Sword of Blue Rose' ; as it is written, there are a couple of conclusions that could be drawn from it, both erroneous; either it is the sword belonging to 'Blue Rose' (like Sword of Corban Saezer) or the sword is made from 'Blue Rose' (like sword of bronze, axe of adamantine)

Well, there are my 2 cents...
If you are interested - hope it helps; if not sorry for the essay

[Pryun]

Thanks for your edits(they were pretty good overall)

Those are pretty good reasons, but the sword is a name... and the article rules and stuff no longer apply due to poetic license. XD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_license

[BeginnerXP]

Thank you for your contributions, Drake.

I'm glad you registered for the account and hope you continue your contributions using the account, it's easier to communicate if there's an issue the translators need to discuss.

Since you're okay with Blue Rose Sword, which is the change I already applied to the wiki, I think we can stick with it. IMO, The Sword of the Blue Rose, while might be more corrected, is too long...

[Shin Aku]

Blue Rose's Sword is right!
"no" is also a genitive particle in the japanese grammar.