Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume2 Chapter2

2009-05-02T19:50:25Z

201.195.159.166:

== References & Translators Notes ==

== Editors' Notes ==

== Hands on fists ==

This line:

''Like 100% pure fruit juice, Asahina the waitress clutched her hands and placed them tightly on her fists and sat stiffly.''

Needs some work, no?

1. Clutch your hands

2. Place them on your fists???

I just don't see what Asahina is supposed to be doing...

--[[User:Xim|Xim]] 05:43, 18 August 2006 (PDT)

:I'm inclined to rewrite this line thus:

:''As sweet as 100% pure fruit juice, Asahina the waitress clutched her hands and placed them tightly on her lap, sitting stiffly.''

:This fits with Asahina's portrayal later in the same scene, and makes better sense of the first phrase too. This was probably the author's intent, even if the "hands on fists" is in the original text. Without objection, I'll change it when I pass by again.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 05:53, 8 February 2007 (PST)

:Was thinking of changing this line, when I read this (discussion.) Since it hadn't been changed by Nutcase, I changed it myself.
:JBV^_^. 18 Nov 2008

== Ambiguous passage ==

:"Up to today, our school life had been as normal as it gets, just that it got spiced up, to the level of nearly losing control, by Haruhi's over-enthusiasm in the making of her movie. If a survey were conducted in the high schools over the whole nation, I'm sure there are people who are as eccentric as us. In other words, they're all living a "normal" life.

:I wasn't attacked by Nagato's people; I didn't go time traveling with Asahina-san; and I didn't encounter any giants that shone like a glowing piece of blue mold; lastly, I never experienced any murder mysteries with a ridiculous truth hidden within."

I have two questions about this passage near the end of the chapter.

1. As it stands this statement is counterfactual. However, it would all make sense if prefaced with,"''From Haruhi's perspective'', up to today..." Has a qualifier of this sort somehow gotten lost in the translation, or is it really just implied by the context?

2. Is it really "murder mysteries?" Haruhi did experience a murder mystery with a ridiculous truth hidden inside. What she didn't experience was the ridiculous truth hidden in the ''mysterious '''disappearance''''' of the computer club prez.

Could someone please check the original on these points?--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 09:40, 8 February 2007 (PST)

: 1) A quick check reveals the paragragh is correct as-is, for the most part. If anything, I would add "I'm sure there are '''other''' people who are '''just''' as eccentric as us"

: 2) Chronologically speaking, it is not clear if Lone Island Syndrome has occured at this point in the story (though I'm fairly certain it has?) Perhaps Kyon isn't counting that incident since it was a setup from the start, or he's saying that nothing ''else'' has happened other than what was already described. Remember, though, that both Lone Island Syndrome nor Mystérique Sign are in Volume 3 - which the was published ''after'' this story - so for the reader, nothing has happened at all.

:[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 10:00, 8 February 2007 (PST)

::Thanks once again for the prompt feedback, Smidge. I'll let leave the Haruhi's perspective point lie hidden, and make the changes you suggest.

::It did occur to me that those episodes hadn't been written, so the murder mysteries remark is "foreshadowing". Perhaps the author changed his mind about exactly how the story was going to go between this foreshadowing of the as yet unwritten past and the actual writing.

Okay, I just figured that by changing "Until today" to "So far today" at the beginning of the passage, all difficulties are solved. The time frame shrinks from the whole six month period down to the single day. This moots the whole discussion.

== Subject of sentence in 'a normal life' ==

... If a survey were conducted on the high schools on the whole nation, I'm sure there are other people who are just as eccentric as us. In other words, they're all living a "normal" life.

I wasn't attacked by Nagato's people; I didn't go time traveling with Asahina-san; and I didn't encounter any giants that shone like a glowing piece of blue mold; lastly, I never experienced any murder mysteries with a ridiculous truth hidden inside.

It was a normal school life.

...
*shouldn't the 'I's in the second paragraph here be replaced with 'they'?[[User:202.156.12.12|202.156.12.12]] 08:13, 18 October 2007 (PDT)

== Haruhi's loudspeaker ==

There are several references to Haruhi carrying a "loudspeaker" as she directs the movie... but it sounds to me as if it was actually a megaphone, which is what people normally use when trying to speak to a crowd and remain mobile.
I don't know what the original text uses, but "megaphone" would IMHO fit a lot better than "loudspeaker".

== Captured into the viewing window ==

Lets face it: This is an awful way of saying "captured in the viewfinder", which is how you'd say it in english.

With the exception of a sheet-film camera, you view the scene you're going to record (on video or film) using a viewfinder. Doesn't matter if it's a simple wireframe or a digital display, it's still called a viewfinder.

JBV^_^

== References to future events as memories? ==

"Has it been six months already? How time flies by! So many things have happened since then! Amateur baseball tournament, lone island mansion...... Now that I think about it, these have all become happy memories. ......How was this possible?"

As far as I understand it, the baseball tournament and island mansion event haven't occurred yet, yet Kyon makes reference to them as memories. This causes my head to explode. Are the books written in non chronological order as well as the anime being aired as such, or am I simply missing something? Perhaps this has been addressed already, and if so, delete this.

: The novels are also released in non-chronological order, there's a story timeline in the project's main page if it doesn't make sense to you. -- [[Special:Contributions/201.195.159.166|201.195.159.166]] 19:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume9 Prologue

2008-12-17T17:34:30Z

201.195.159.166:

==Opening==

If you want some help on the first sentence, I'd translate it as such:

"I feel that the method used to feel the change of seasons varies from person to person, but in the case of myself for the past half year, the tendencies of my three colored house cat named Shamisen are some of the easiest clues to understand."

hope that gives you some insight =p really complicated first sentence(and second...) =/ maybe if i'm too far off i'll just quit(posting), but i'd like to try to aid in translation to further my japanese, as opposed to just trying to decipher it without writing anything down =p

the shamisen part is hard because you have to word it correctly or else it becomes too wordy and just doesn't read well. he says "ie de katteiru mikeneko shamisen" which literally translates to "the three colored cat that i'm raising at home named Shamisen", but it's best expressed as 'my three colored house cat named Shamisen' since it expresses the fact that it's his pet and is raised at home. perhaps "my calico house cat named Shamisen" or, "my calico house cat, Shamisen,". i'm not sure how you translators feel about freely adding commas.

--[[User:Canthelpit|Canthelpit]] 21:22, 1 April 2007 (PDT)

=="Wind"==

I fixed a grammar error, but I had to assume it said "winds." That is what it says, right? (I don't have the thing with me, nor do I actually know Japanese) I think scorching is a good word...

--[[Anonymous]] 1:29 14 April 2007 (PDT)

:I reviewed the edit. I agree that the original was a bit clunky, and there are two ways to fix it:

the wind'''s''' that blow(s) down from the mountains are still chilly

:or

the wind that blows down from the mountains '''is''' still chilly

:I favor the second option, but that's just me. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 04:30, 14 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Research Society has burnt his brains

Can someone take another look at the original text for the above sentence? Or think of an alternative English translation for it?

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 09:04, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Reserch Society has waited and seen

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 21:08, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

That still doesn't make a lot of sense in the context, I'm afraid ._.;

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 00:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Research Society has '''fried''' his brains

That expression is one commonly used in English.

-- Turbanator - [[User:87.203.187.123|87.203.187.123]] 06:00, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Kyon thinks that what the Computer Research Society is displaying is calmer than "The Day of Sagittarius III". I can't express the nuance in English well... In this context, I mean "calm" is ''less otaku''.
In Japanese, the nature of otaku isn't liked, so I think that the members of Computer Research Society try to be ''calm'' in order to get new members of not only otaku but also one who is a bit interested in the club.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 01:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Haha, more mainstream maybe?

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 08:31, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Shadowfall: Sorry, I don't understand the sentence. It means the problem has settled, doesn't it?

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 00:11, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

==Face Expression==

:English: ''The expression of endlessly smeared all over your face when you are making your speech'' during today's opening ceremony is not that easy to forget.
:Japanese: 始業式の全校朝礼で'''長々と訓示を述べていた顔'''をそうそう忘れたりはしないさ。

(when the student pres. is talking to Kyon) the italic part is missing a word or something. I think the translator needs to take a look.

And sorry about all the edits and stuff, I just created an account to help out and am really eager and excited to help this project!

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 14:59, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

To put it simply, the sentence wanted to mean that...
:The expression of your face when you are making your speech
Does this make sense?
Maybe, the translator thought "all over your face" to be a noun "face" modified by "all over your".
On the other hand, you thought "all over your face" to be an adverb.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 21:39, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

* lol. Ah proof that Akiha is Japanese! Only a Japanese can break down English with so much technicality, not even I know what your talking about Akiha, and I've been speaking English the day I was born. :/

But from what I think your trying to say is that the phrase is meant to describe the characters emotion on their face and that...er...dammn well i haven't read the script yet, I'll do it when I get off work, but in English It's fine to say "it's all over your face" but it's a abit vague, as it can mean more then one thing. Maybe we need to make more specific? As in terms so that readers will know it meant what...er...Akiha-san is trying to say something along the lines of "he/she made that familiar expression that you knew they wanted to say something"...or not.

Must read the script. :p

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 22:25, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

I changed it to "The expression smeared over your face during today's opening ceremony while you were making your speech is not that easy to forget" for now.

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 00:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks. Then have this problem been solved? I can't judge which of two sentences is better English.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 01:07, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

I got it! "When" is the cause of the confusion, isn't it? Although I omit it, I can tell you the reason technically! :D

BTW, Do only Japanese technically understand English? Don't other second language learners do it? I've thought this method is normal..

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 06:16, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

:* Second Language learner certainly learn the technicality of English, but not to the extremes that the Japanese Education system does. European English learner learn only 20-40% of the technicality, the rest is concentrated on the speaking and understanding it. Hong Kong Chinese are more alike to Japanese, they have a very good grasp of Written English and can even type out loads of documents with fluid and dynamic flair, (well all those I've met in my company are like that) but the minute I talk to them in English they falter, the less senior staff I talk to, the worse the spoken English becomes... :p
[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 07:10, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

This is interesting and educational. Thank you.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 07:43, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

I think it's OK now. It certainly makes sense in English, that Kyon didn't like the President's general expression while he was giving his speech. I think the only question is if it was indeed the general expression, or a specific expression that Kyon took offence to in the original text.

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 08:31, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

The former. To answer this question, we need to consider the dropped original text in translation, which is "for long time" (in Japanese: "長々と"). After all, the text is

:The expression smeared over your face during today's opening ceremony while you were making your speech ''for long time'' is not that easy to forget.

Kyon was impatient with the length of the speech. He took offence to pres. through his expression(face). To put it differently, his expression was merely the symbol of pres in this context. Therefore I think the expression in question is the general one, because he normally gave his speech as pres.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 09:47, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, that explains the "expression of endlessly" in the original translation then. In that case a better wording to use may be:

:It's not that easy to forget the expression that was smeared over your face during the speech you took so long in today's opening ceremony making.

(Shuffling the text around a bit so as not to break the sentence into too many parts). It's still kinda long though.

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 11:32, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

==Student Council==

Even if our treasurer had anything to say, it would be towards the president of your club seated over there.

Shouldn't this be in quotes? It's something the student council president is saying.

--[[User:Maian|Maian]] 06:45, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

yes. I reflected it.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 06:58, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

and I noticed a blunder too. the vice-president mentioned in the paragraph before this should be treasurer instead.

--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 03:03, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

==Contractions==

Just a quick note:

I've noticed that "till" has been used in every instance instead of "until". Please note that the actual contraction of "until" is " 'til", though I believe it would be best to write out "until" as it sounds more proper. In either case, "till" is completely wrong as it is a different word with its own meaning (as in a layer of soil or working on soil, as well as other meanings).

Keep up the great work everyone!

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 13:13, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Thank you Shadowfall for catching my blunder! I'll make sure that doesn't happen again!

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 13:37, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

==Classes==

I'm going over the current translation again very carefully and I came across this:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream are just enough for a class, and thus 2-8 has been decided to be used for such purpose.

I don't have the original work (and can't read any language other than English anyways), so I'm just going to suggest this change:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream were just barely enough for a class, and thus 2-8 had been allocated solely for this purpose.

It seems like Kyon is suggesting that there weren't enough students interested in the science field to group them into a homeroom, so they were spread out to other classes and the room 2-8 was set aside for classroom use only. I just wanted to check so as not to lose the original meaning. I feel like this sentence is trying to indicate a small number and the phrase "just barely enough" gives the sense of there being so few students that major rearrangements were required. "Just enough" doesn't quite seem to convey the same sense of urgency due to low numbers.

Either way, the part immediately after 2-8 should be fixed as I have suggested for verb tense agreement and readability.

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 15:17, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Kyon is saying that there are just enough students to fill up a science class, and 2-8 is then used for this purpose. The original 1-8, that is supposed to be promoted to 2-8, ends up getting split into the seven other classes.

Also, I think there is a mistake in the publication itself (I use the unofficial mainland chinese version). it is mentioned they are split into the other seven classes, but in actual fact Koizumi is in 2-9 means there are more than just 7 classes.

--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 03:07, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, okay, I understand now. So I will make it:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream were just enough for a class, and thus 2-8 had been allocated solely for this purpose.

This will make everything clear. And also, saying they were spread into the seven other classes is correct, as it is later mentioned that Koizumi pulled some strings to arrange the entirety of class 1-9 to be promoted to 2-9 with no changes whatsoever. Thus, class 2-9 is already filled and anybody who was not in class 1-9 will surely not be allowed into 2-9.

And the time code tag is 4 tildas (~) in a row. The button is the second from the right at the top of the editing pane.

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 17:55, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

The conclusion are equal to the original.

I'm not sure, but I think class 1-9 and 2-9 is a elite class and that this is metioned in the last story of vol.8... Later, I'll check the source.

I agree with deskoh91. We should use the forum of Baka-tsuki or topic-per-page style in talk pages. It is very annoying for me to get the grasp of each topic and follow updates in this chaos.

[http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=35 The proper forum]

Or

To open a new topic in a new page on wiki, just write this on a talk page.
<pre>[[tipic name]]</pre>
And follow the new created link. Hereby, everyone who wants do subscribe the topic can add the page to their watchlist to check update easily.

Now, we can get a benefit from a wiki or phpbb forum, which are cool web applications! I recommend to use the phpbb forum bacause it is created for discussion purpose. It just matches our demand. Technically, there is a few potential problems in using wiki as a discussion place in topic-per-page style.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 00:11, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

The source mentioned in the my last post, is quoted from [[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume8_Wandering_Shadow]].

:Class 1-9 was a class for those interested in the Science and Mathematics Field, so it was naturally comprised of sharp-witted know-it-alls who did nothing but study.
:九組というのは特別進学理数コースであり、当然の次第として頭のいい野郎ばかりの集まり

I think 1-9 (or 2-9) itself is an exclusive class from the Japanese text.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 09:23, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

== Parody? ==

The screen continued playing the images, calling it an imitation is a nicer way to put it, in fact it is just going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round.

I believe it should go more like this:

The screen continued playing the images, but calling it a parody is a nicer way to put it as it is simply going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round.

For the description that follows is clearly talking about scenes from Star Wars and Superman. I believe parody would be the more appropriate term. Also, I think the last part of this sentence needs to be looked at again by a translator. I'm not sure if Kyon is talking about the places from the last movie, or if he is talking about places from the parodied films.

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 10:57, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Good word suggestion. Go with it.

--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 03:07, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Will do!

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 17:57, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Although I understand the structure of this, I don't tell the meaning of this. I think there is some idioms.
:it is simply going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round.
I translated the part from the original.
:there are tons of scenes from (famous) titles in it.
"famous" is a free translation, because usually, famous titles are referred in parody, for example Star Wars :)

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 06:47, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

I figured that that was what this sentence was trying to get at. That is why the last part about going to the same places didn't make sense to me. So how about

:The screen continued to play the images, but calling it a parody is a better way to phrase it as there are tons of scenes from famous titles with the original actors replaced by characters from Haruhi's previous movie.

That's my suggestion. I replaced "nicer" with "better" since "nicer" seems to give the connotation that Kyon is trying to defend or support the trailer, when that is clearly the last thing he would ever do. Also, "better" just seems to fit the sentence here anyway. I also rephrased the last part to make it clear according to what akiha said. I'll wait for approval from Deskoh91 or another translator before making this change in the actual prologue.

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 07:56, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

== Backing? ==

Why do you keep looking at me? Unfortunately, even if I have backing similar to those of Asahina and Nagato, it would still not be as advanced as understanding what one is trying to convey with just a look from a guy, would it?

This sentence could use retranslation. It seems to me like its talking about the ability Kyon has to accurately read Yuki and Mikuru's expressions, and how this naturally wouldn't work on Itsuki due to him being male. Would that be accurate?

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 13:11, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

What does "backing" mean? a support or help? If so, "backing" means the orgnization in the future in case of Asahina, besides it means the awesome presence in the universe in case of Nagato. But the meaing doesn't match to the original part in meaning. Anyway, I can't understand the meaning of the quoted text well.

This is the gist of the part from original.
:Stop looking at me. I'm willingly looked at by Asahina and Nagato, but I'm not willingly looked at by male such as you.

If a man aren't gay, is it by far more exciting that cute girls are looking at him siginificantly than men does?
Yes, it is for me, especially when Haruhi does. :)

Here is my tranlation. Notice that it is very faithful to the original, hereby, roundabout. Edit this as you think proper in terms of English and consistency with other parts.

:Why do you cast me a subtle glance? I can accept a eye contact from Asahina and Nagato, being aware of its implication, but unfortunately, the ability isn't effective to one from males like you.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 11:13, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

How about:

:Why do you cast me such a subtle glance? Eye contact from Asahina or Nagato is perfectly acceptable due to the implications behind such actions, but unfortunately the feeling is lost when the stare originates from a guy like you.

That's my suggestion.

--[[User:Haruhi's loyal subordinate|Haruhi's loyal subordinate]] 18:45, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

That makes a lot more sense than the original. Thanks, I made the change.

--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 11:38, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

==A mistranslation of a line of The Student Council President==
The Student Council president says.
; English : ''“And subduing those giants in the sealed reality created by the girl whose mind is filled with all sorts of ideas would be your job.”''
; Japanese : ''「あの脳内花畑女の首紐をつけておくのは、キミたちの役目だ」''
The English line shows that he knows of Avatars in the sealed reality, but the Japanese counterpart doesn't. I haven't read all of Haruhi series up to this point, I have a poor memory, and I'm lazy... So, I can't judge whether the English line is consistent with the previous volumes. Anyway, the Original line doesn't mention this here. He just tells that he wants members of SOS Brigade to watch the behavior of Haruhi in school to prevent her from causing trouble for him. Because of the ignorance of the extraordinary situation around Haruhi, he does only mention school-event-related her behavior. Also I don't feel any implication of indication of Avatars from the Japanese line, I guess. Regarding these, I suggest to correct this line.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 04:25, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

::あの脳内花畑女の首紐をつけておくのは、キミたちの役目だ。
::
:: *脳内 【のうない】 intracerebral (adj); intracranial (adj); intracranially (adv) (n); LS
:: *花畑 【はなばたけ】 (n) flower garden; flower bed; ED
:: *女 【おんな; じょ】 (おんな) (n) woman; (じょ) (n) woman; girl; daughter; SP
:: *首 【くび; しゅ】 (くび) (n) neck; (しゅ) (n,n-suf) counter for songs and poems; SP
:: *紐 【ひも】 (n) (1) string; cord; (2) man who is financially dependent on a woman (such as a gigolo or, in the case of a prostitute, a pimp); pimp; (P); EP
:: *役目 【やくめ】 (n) duty; business; role; (P); EP
:
: "Pimp" Haha! Anyway... this is a poor man's attempt at a translation.
: -
: "あの" is probably just a sound, like starting a sentance with "Uh..." in English.
: "脳内花畑" = Flower garden in the mind?
: "女の首" = Neck of a woman/girl
: "紐" = Leash (a type of cord or string assiciated with "neck")
: -
: So perhaps it translates to something like: "As for keeping a leash on that girl's flowering mind, that's your job." ? I'm sure I'm missing a few things...

--[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 05:22, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

I think because of two idiomatic wordings used in the Japanese, the mistranslation happened. No wonder Smidge204's translation isn't correct. Here is an explanation.
; structure : [[[あの[['''脳内花畑''']女]]の'''首紐]をつけておく''']のは、キミたちの役目だ
; simple translation : As for watching the behavior of Haruhi in school, that's your job.
; gist : He wants members of SOS Brigade to watch the behavior of Haruhi in school to prevent causing trouble for him.
#脳内花畑(literally: flower garden in the mind)
#*In Japanese, someone who has ''flower garden in the mind'' is thought to be crazy, insane, nonsense, etc. We think they are seeing an illusion that they play in the flower garden, regressing to childish behavior. So, meaning "that girl who has ''flower garden in the mind''", "あの[[脳内花畑]女]]" is referring to Haruhi in a very offensive and rude manner.
#首紐をつけておく(literally: to keep a leash on someone's neck)
#*If you have a dog, you keep it on a leash to prevent running away. When that is applied to a person in Japanese, that meaning is to watch him/her to prevent doing something bad. The wording has a forcible feeling, because of treating he/she as an animal.

Change my simple translation into more idiomatic one in English!

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 19:43, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

:Ah, so it's an idiom. "Keeping a leash on someone" is also an idiom in English, and it means the same thing. So, fixing the part about the flower garden:
::"As for keeping a leash on that psychopathic girl, that's your job."
:To make it sound more natural, I would remove the comma...
::"Your job is to keep a leash on that psychopathic girl."
:This also works in the context, since the president is interrupting and (rudely) correcting Koizumi.
:[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 03:56, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

== [[User:Akiha#Type of suggestion|high]] Autumn not Spring ==

;English(Wrong) : “The Revenge of Nagato Yuki will open during the spring cultural festival!”
;Japanese : "長門ユキの逆襲、今秋文化祭にて一斉公開堂々上映予定!"
;Correct : “The Revenge of Nagato Yuki will open during the cultural festival this autumn!”
Although this is a tiny mistranslation, it has a significant effect on story. Of course the original says "fall" not "spring". Usually a cultural festival is held in fall in each year. I haven't heard a cultural festival held in Spring.

I apologise. Do make the change.
--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 06:48, 13 May 2007 (PDT)

== Stoned ==
Sasaki looked like she wanted to enter the names and looks of the three brigade members into her brain and stoned for a while, before turning back to me……

Is stoned supposed to be stared?
--[[User:Shadowfall|Shadowfall]] 14:31, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

I don't know why "stoned" is used... Anyway, here is a faithful translation. I think Shadowfall's opinion is correct too. I leave it to Editors to adopt which one.

;Current English text:Sasaki looked like someone that's trying to commit the names and looks of the three brigade members into their memory and ''stoned'' for a while, before turning back to me……
;Japanese text:佐々木は三人の顔と名前を記憶するような佇まいでいたが、くるりと俺を振り返り、
;Correct English text:Sasaki looked like someone that's trying to commit the names and looks of the three brigade members into their memory and ''kept standing'' for a while, before turning back to me……

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 22:46, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

== Delphi Oracle? ==

: I would not tell you the Oracle like the Priestess of Delphi either.

I don't get this statement, nor Koizumi's reply. Something about not wanting to hear about the forces beyond your control? In any case, this statement is unclear in its meaning. Do you mean, "Unlike the Priestess of Delphi, I would not tell you the Oracle"? --[[User:Maian|Maian]] 22:54, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

Wow I did not notice that I had such lousy grammar. Pardon me since I worked really quickly through some of the parts and I may really literally translate the line to english while I am at it. You are quite right on your guess.
--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 09:15, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

== Eclipse ==

Pardon commentary from an anonymous reader, but noticed this: "Showed a beautiful smile that radiated the glow of an eclipse of three major planets".

I haven't checked the Japanese, but I suspect this is referring to a conjunction of planets. Eclipsing is usually only used to refer to something blocking out the moon or the sun; a conjunction is simply the planets lining up. Whether that's actually any brighter than a planet would normally be I have no idea, but that's my guess as to the intended meaning there. [[User:17.102.122.37|17.102.122.37]] 14:10, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

;Current English:Showed a beautiful smile that radiated the glow of ''an eclipse of three major planets''
;Japanese:やっぱり、どの角度から見ても三重連星のように輝く核融合じみた笑顔だった。
;My translation:Showed a beautiful smile that radiated the glow of ''an nuclear fusion of multiple stars''

;三重連星:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_star multiple stars]
;核融合:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion nuclear fusion]

This post is terse. but I think it suffices to explain. Sorry for my laziness :)

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 23:58, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

== "Those two" ==

:...Of course I am not the only one who will think this way. And of course, after those two [TL Note: This part is slightly confusing. It is Koizumi talking, and the two being referred to here is Yuki and Asahina] understand your circumstances,...

I believe "those two" refers to Kunikida and Nakagawa, mentioned by Kyon on the previous sentence. --[[User:128.194.78.55|128.194.78.55]] 23:29, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

No. From Japanese text, I certain that "those two" refers to Asahina and Yuki.

;Current:And of course, after those two understand your circumstances, they would quit worrying after a while and not take it to heart.
;Japanese:ひょっとしたら朝比奈さんや長門さんも同じことを考えるかもしれません。まあ、あのお二人は少しはあなたに関する情報をお持ちでしょうから杞憂ですませるとしても、
;Faithful translation:Perhaps, Asahina and Nagato may think this way. However, because those two know your circumstances, they quit worrying after a while and not take it to heart.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 00:15, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

My bad, the originally translation seemed to indicate otherwise. Thanks for the verifycation.--[[User:128.194.78.55|128.194.78.55]] 20:24, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

== Sasaki gender neutral edits ==

[[User:Magus|Magus]] made a bunch of edits in [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume9_Prologue&oldid=15776 this] and the next revision that made all references to Sasaki gender neutral. Was it really the intent of the author to leave the gender of Sasaki unknown until later on? Making Sasaki gender neutral makes for awkward phrasing - leaving gender unspecified is not a trick that can be done easily in English. --[[User:Maian|Maian]] 22:56, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

yes, it is the original intent of the author to avoid mentioning the gender till much later in prologue.

I agree that sentence phrasings will be really awkward if they are deliberately gender neutral in english, and so I opted to just proceed with using she, while attempting to retain her more boyish talking style. but that is of course my choice. I see that magus and Dan had ram through the neutralisation thing, and I think it is pretty well done. keep it up.
--[[User:Deskoh91|Deskoh91]] 05:58, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

One awkward phrase left - "Sasaki, slightly shooked head" - which of course could be corrected to "Sasaki slightly shook head" but would still be awkward - I've changed this to "Sasaki gave a slight shake of the head" which achieves both smoothness and gender-neutraility. "gave a shake of the head" ("slight" or otherwise) is a canned phrase in which "the head" seems natural to a reader (whereas "Sasaki shook the head" would be horrible, and a giveaway that something is being hidden!). I hope this is a solution to the problem of English awkwardness here! --[[User:Ids|Ids]] 18:48, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
== Nonsense sentence ==

;Current translation:''We already know each other'' so well, even if we want to talk in circles, let's leave it for other, more unique topics instead. ..... While we are considered mature, compared to Nagato and Asahina our credibility doesn't seem that high.
;Japanese:お互い、''知らない仲ではない''のですから、回りくどく韜晦するのは違う話題のときにしましょう.......'''しょうがないな。'''''知らない仲ではない''というのは真実だ。長門や朝比奈さんと比べたら、もう一つ信用には足らんヤツだが。
;Faithful translation:''We already know each other'' so well, even if we want to talk in circles, let's leave it for other, more unique topics instead. ..... Although you are less credible than Asahina [and|or](I don't know which is correct, tell me the which and the why) Nagato, it is true that ''we already know each other''. '''There is no way than a way to comply with your request and be serious and direct.'''

;TL Note: Some paragraph looks missing here, or my book translation is bad. There is no connection between the two sentences. Please take a look at it.
;ED Note: Reworded and preserved meaning to restore flow

; "your request" : even if we want to talk in circles, let's leave it for other, more unique topics instead.
I omit an explanation. Pardon me for cutting corners. I'm very tired and sleepy... If you have a question, feel free to post it. After waking up, I'll reply it.

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 01:16, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

== Wood Blocks and Wooden Foil==

;Current Translation: Menial jobs such as the cutting and painting of said ''wood blocks'' were of course done by me, as you probably expected.
;English usage note: A wood block is a small piece of wood, usually less than 20 cm on a side, and usually has substantially cubic dimensions. A sign would be made of ''boards'', which are larger and relatively thin in one dimension.

;Suggested Change: Menial jobs such as the cutting and painting of said ''boards'' were of course done by me, as you probably expected.

;Current Translation: Haruhi, upon confirming that the president was finally out of sight, planted the sign into the ground and tore off the thin layer of ''wooden foil'' with the words 'Literature Club' to reveal 'SOS Brigade'.

;Suggested Change: Haruhi, upon confirming that the president was finally out of sight, planted the sign into the ground and tore off the thin layer of ''wood veneer'' with the words 'Literature Club' to reveal 'SOS Brigade'.

[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:13, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

== Bolt of cloth ==

;Current translation:If I were to narrate all the amazing events that occurred in this past year, it would be longer than a bolt of cloth.
;TL Note: I am not sure of the exact translation for this, but it would be ~36 inches or ~80cm - comment:actually bolt is 50 yards of fabric, which makes more sense
;Japanese:俺が過ごしてきたここ一年の北高不思議ライフを話し出すと長くなるぜ。
;Faithful translation:If I were to narrate all the amazing events that occurred in this past year, it would be long.

This is mysterious. Japanese text describes the length of the narration as just "long", not "longer than a bolt of cloth".

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 18:08, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

:A bolt of cloth is 40 yards (36.57m) but hey, that's still long. :)
:
:The discrepancy is probably from the Chinese version of the text. Part of me wants to keep that description, part of me wants to make it match the original Japanese... what to do? [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 02:59, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

== Unknown moving object ==

When Kyon is talking about coming to north high last year in the beginning of the prologue, he says:
"I ended up in North High due to my results, and met Suzumiya Haruhi, the unknown moving object."

First of all, are results referring to his grades or something? I don't think that it is very clear in the english as it stands. Second, I'm not sure what "unknown moving object" refers to. Is that like a Japanese trans-literal equivalent of a UFO (unknown flying object)? I could understand it as a pun, but it seems sort of awkward.

--[[User:Pxstg|Pxstg]] 1:40, 25 May 2007 (EST)

;The corresponding japanese: 俺がこの高校に入学したのは学区割りという制度の仕業だが、そこから涼宮ハルヒという未確認移動物体と出会っちまった

Halfway yes. He entered North High, because of "学区割り(gakku wari:school district assignment)" and his grade. Japanese middle school students may enter a high school near which they live. They can choose which school to enter from schools in the school district they live in. And they usually cannot enter a school in other school district. This way, Japanese education system prevents centralization of students to urban schools and thus commercialization of schools. So, he chose a school from his school district which suits himself in terms of his grade. Of course, it was North High school.

"Unknown moving object" is literally translated from "未確認移動物体". And it refers to Haruhi. This way, Kyon indicates '''Haruhi is Haruhi, not anyone else''', who behaves as she like. You know, the behavior is outrageous, ridiculous and mysterious. So it doesn't make sense for most of people, not forgetting Kyon, as it is much like ''unknown'' moving objects. The Japanese expression has humorous and a bit sarcastic feeling, but isn't a pun.

While considering this, please rephrase the translation!

--[[User:Akiha|Akiha]] 13:58, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Okay, so how does this sound for a possible rephrasal:
;Suggested Change: Due to the school district assignments I ended up in North High and met Suzumiya Haruhi, the walking enigma.
Since the Japanese doesn't mention anything about his grades I didn't think it was necessary to include it. I think "walking enigma" is a bit more understandable English than "unknown moving object". The meaning is slightly different, as this translation indicates that Haruhi is a "moving unknown" rather than saying anything about her being an "object". However, I think the intention of the phrase is made more clear and less awkward this way. If some one fluent in Japanese could give their approval I'd appreciate it.

[[User:Pxstg|Pxstg]] 08:18, 1 June 2007 (PDT)

==SOS Brigade==

I am not a translator and I know that the translation is not literal in order to keep the abbreviation working, but wasn't it usually translated as the "'''S'''ave the world by '''O'''verloading it with fun, '''S'''uzumiya Haruhi Brigade" instead of "'''S'''preading Excitement All '''O'''ver the World with '''S'''uzumiya Haruhi's Brigade" ?

-- Anonymous 17 December 2008

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Prologue

2008-12-09T15:33:14Z

201.195.159.166: /* Koizumi's time diagram discussion */

== References & Translator's Notes ==

=== Kirlian photograph ===

A 'photograph' created by exposing a photographic plate to an electric field instead of light. The electrical properties of the subject being photographed generates a unique electrical field around it, creating an "aura" around it.

=== Pochibukuro ===

In Japan, it is a New Year’s custom to give small amounts of money to children in decorative envelopes called ‘pochibukuro’.

=== Fukuwarai and Sugoroku ===
[http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/virtual/fukuwarai/what-is.html Fukuwari] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugoroku Sugoroku] are the games the group played while on the trip to Snow Mountain in the story [http://project.baka-tsuki.net/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume6_Where_did_the_Cat_Go%3F Where did the cat go?]

=== Spring Setsubun ===

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setsubun Setsubun] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichun Risshun] is the eve of and the first day of a season, respectively. In this case, the season is springtime. The novel uses the kanji 節分 (せつぶん - "Setsubun") here, which is specifically a holiday for end of winter (Bean Throwing Night).

=== Rolled Sushi ===

The word used in the novel is "ehoumaki." (Can someone please expand this? It seems this word has a special meaning associated with the occasion, but I'm not clear what it is.) (I'm trying to confirm this in word from the scans... -Smidge)(This is discussed in the Setsubun wiki, it is not rolled sushi - but "Lucky Direction Roll Sushi", it's named this because it is rolled in the direction of the Zodiac sign of the time of year.)

=== Bernoulli lemniscate ===

Latin for "[http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html a pendant ribbon]", a polar curve whose most common form is the locus of points the product of whose distances from two fixed points documented by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bernoulli Bernouli] in 1694.

=== Fuku wa uchi ===

The second half of the phrase "Oni wa soto! Fuku wa uchi!" (鬼は外! 福は内! - "Demons out! Luck in!") which is traditionally yelled while throwing the soy beans during Setsubun. Only the second half ("Luck In") is said because Haruhi wanted to be nice to the demons.

=== Naita Akaoni ===

[http://harujpn-citron.blogspot.com/2005/11/naita-akaoni.html Naita Akaoni] is a children's story about two kind demons, a Red and Blue demon, who wish to be friends with the humans, who are always running away from them.

== Discussion ==

=== General ===

=== "Hoping time will reverse." ===

: Here, I'm hoping that time will '''reverse'''. I have no clue what Haruhi is planning, since I need to come to terms with my own situation first. Starting to reminisce about the past year in February is a bit early, but since what I have to say is not unsayable, I might as well tell it enthusiastically and completely.

Is "reverse" the correct word here? The intent here isn't for time to flow backwards. It's more like Kyon wants to hit the "Pause" button and step out of "real" time while assimilating recent events, which involves rewinding the tape of the previous month and playing it forward. I can see the use of "reverse" here as a way to get accross the correct concept without it being literally accurate, but i can also see it as a placeholder in translation of a confusing passage.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 06:47, 19 February 2007 (PST)

=== "the wrong amount to set off" ===

''I think I know what Nagato wants to say. I had told Asahina-san that it was because Nagato had let the wrong amount to set off, so the world changed on December the eighteenth.''

This sentence doesn't seem right. Can anyone please confirm the translation?

:Well, Kyon told Mikuru Yuki had put too much data into it and caused the world to change. Maybe change it to Nagato had (exploded) too much data? ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

:I have taken some liberties here, putting in "set things in motion" as capturing the sense in idiomatic English. Could make it "caused the wrong current state to be entered" to stay closer to BaKaFiSh's translation. This contacts the notion of the universe-as-computer more clearly. Yeah, that's better, gonna change it.

=== "I'll give you something to see" ===

''The movie I was watching gradually disappeared. Has the service been cut? I'll give you something to see. Like during my three-day long memory loss, it's a brigade leader's responsibility to worry about the members, that's the way it is, Haruhi.''

This paragraph seems a bit confused. Can anyone please confirm the translation?

:maybe 'think about' instead of 'see' would make more sense... ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/setsubun.htm

: I read this as Kyon is talking to himself, and the thing that he clings to in the timeless, placeless void is Haruhi's concern for him. The 'you' being himself is the slippery point here, so if anything, I'd make it. "I'll give you something to see, Kyon."--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 07:56, 5 February 2007 (PST)

=== Lucky Daughters ===

Perhaps this is a reference to [http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/setsubun.htm Toshi Otoko] (the person/people who would throw the beans in such a ritual)?

=== "Box." ===

:When we first started, the students down below didn't know what was going on, and ran around like a group of insects not wanting to die. But before a minute had passed, the guys had come back in twos and threes and started to fight for the beans Asahina-san and Nagato were throwing down just like it was for money. They generally avoided the beans that Haruhi and her strong arms were firing off, considering it was kind of like the beans were fired out of a gun. For this, they moved in unison, going left and right at the same time.

:"'''Box'''."(<--makes no sense.)

:Haruhi then said, lamenting,

"Box" as in "Pass a box of ammo?" or as in "Stand and fight?" What kind of box? Smidge?--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 17:15, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Okay, on this pass, I'm taking it to mean "Stand and fight!" It fits in the context. I've made the edit. If nobody says this is a mistake, I'll delete this section in a while.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 15:31, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:: The original text says "しまったわ" (Shimatta wa). "Shimatta" is a mild explitive ("Damn it!") so I would translate this outburst as either "Damn it!" or "Damn you!" [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 16:15, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:The current ''Stand and Fight'' makes as little sense as the original ''Box'', given that she's ''lamenting''. '''Damn.''' would seem to fit better than either of Smidges' suggestions, as they seem too aggressive.
:BTW, why was ''Box'' used in the first place?
:JBV^_^

=== Koizumi's time diagram discussion ===

I'm not a translator...just a reader commenting on the story.

I'm sure you didn't mistranslated Koizumi's time loop explanation or least Kyon's interpretation of the left loop ("The left loop was the time I missed. It was the time from when I lost consciousness after being stabbed up to when I woke up in the hospital. Those three days were this loop.").

But when I tried to do it myself (yes I have lots of free time :p), I got a different diagram, so I think the author got it wrong or something:

[[Image:Suzumiya haruhi time travel timeline.png]]

If you look at the linked diagram, the right loop in Koizumi's diagram would be 3->4->1->3 in my diagram (which correspond to the events in Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi), and his left loop would 3->5->3 in mine (which correspond to the 3 days b/w the stairwell accident and Kyon waking up from his coma). But notice how there is no 5->3 in my diagram. Instead the left loop should be 6->3->5->6.

If you look at the diagram, you'll also see what Koizumi was talking about when he said "The memory we have but you don't have...... when you fell down the stairs on the eighteenth, to your awakening on the twenty-first, three days later, maybe it never existed." This involves deleting the line segment 3->5, and merging 4 and 5 into a single point that would describe 2 things: Kyon pressing the <Enter> key to travel to the past again; and the alternate timeline morphing back to the original timeline, where the memories of the deleted 3->5 segment are fake.

--[[User:Maian|Maian]] 10:07, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

:I think koizumi's drawing was much simpler from the one you did, probably something like this[http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=timelineng5.png], having in mind only the time from 3 to 5 and from 3 to 4.

=== "mass" ===

: Falling heads over heels and revolving in a no-gravity zone is something I have experienced many times before. Even though I think I'm used to these sensations, this time is vastly different from all the other times. If all the other times were like riding a roller-coaster in an amusement park, this is a noisy, anarchic space shuttle I'm randomly flying about in without a seat belt. But, since my body has no '''mass''', it is actually not being twirled around.

Mass is the amount of matter an object has while weight is the force due gravity.
With or without gravity, the amount of mass an object has doesn't change. Hence, even if Kyon, encounters something in a no-gravity zone, his mass will not change. To cut the story short, it should not be mass which is used here, it should be weight.

--[[User:jedlionheart|jedlionheart]] March, 2008

== Closed Discussion Items ==

The following discussion items ahve been resolved in some form or another...

=== Snow Mountain Syndrome reference ===

For uniformity, I decided to reference the location of the Snow Moutnain Syndrome storyline as a "mysterious mansion on the mountain" - this seems to adequately describe it without spoiling the actual story. To differentiate, the ''other'' location in that story is referred to as a villa.

=== doesn't fit SOS ===
'シズン毎にオンタイムな行事をしめやかに実行する組織'(literally something like Organization that respectfully holds events appropriate to the season....but that doesn't fit SOS)

Maybe something along the lines of "Specially Observing all events approriate to the Season"?

/kaoSFell

:yeah, there's a forum topic on it now~ http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=563 ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

=== Bernoulli line ===
I think they meant the lemniscate. See http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Curves/Lemniscate.html.
:I agree, it definitely matches up with Koizumi's drawing. (Also http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html)

=== Cleaning bin? ===
The last line of the prologue, you used the phrase "cleaning bin" of the literature club room. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but shouldn't it be utility closet? At least that's what I translated in Melancholy of Mikuru and Chapter 1. Since they're refering to the same object, I think we better standardize things a bit. Cleaning bin or utility closet? XD
--[[User:HolyCow|HolyCow]] 22:16, 2 December 2006 (PST)

:''Cleaning Bin'' sounds like a trash can. When I first read that line I thought, "Who's hiding in the trash can?". A utility/broom closet makes a lot more sense. I'll make that change when I revew the rest of the prologue later today. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 04:56, 3 December 2006 (PST)
::I thought the same :) [[User:Darkoneko|DarkoNeko]] [[User_Talk:Darkoneko|talk]] 05:22, 3 December 2006 (PST)
:::Sure, =P, I just put cleaning bin because that's how I store all my cleaning crap...I shove it into a bin in the closet downstairs...=P...I guess that would make more sense... ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

== New Year has has! ==

''New Years has come and gone, and we left the troublesome old year behind almost a month ago. If time seems to have flown by, it's probably because you've kept yourself busy doing a lot of New Years related things during that first month.''

A I've stated in the inline comment I made, the first ''New Years'' should really be ''New Year's'', but that makes the first sentence New Year has has. The reason it shouldn't be '''years''' being that the first '''New Year''' refers to the current new year and hence should be singular, not plural.

The second should really be singular too, but it could be argued that it refers to things that are performed every year, hence can be left as a plural.

JBV^_^

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Prologue

2008-12-09T15:31:33Z

201.195.159.166: /* Koizumi's time diagram discussion */

== References & Translator's Notes ==

=== Kirlian photograph ===

A 'photograph' created by exposing a photographic plate to an electric field instead of light. The electrical properties of the subject being photographed generates a unique electrical field around it, creating an "aura" around it.

=== Pochibukuro ===

In Japan, it is a New Year’s custom to give small amounts of money to children in decorative envelopes called ‘pochibukuro’.

=== Fukuwarai and Sugoroku ===
[http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/virtual/fukuwarai/what-is.html Fukuwari] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugoroku Sugoroku] are the games the group played while on the trip to Snow Mountain in the story [http://project.baka-tsuki.net/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume6_Where_did_the_Cat_Go%3F Where did the cat go?]

=== Spring Setsubun ===

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setsubun Setsubun] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichun Risshun] is the eve of and the first day of a season, respectively. In this case, the season is springtime. The novel uses the kanji 節分 (せつぶん - "Setsubun") here, which is specifically a holiday for end of winter (Bean Throwing Night).

=== Rolled Sushi ===

The word used in the novel is "ehoumaki." (Can someone please expand this? It seems this word has a special meaning associated with the occasion, but I'm not clear what it is.) (I'm trying to confirm this in word from the scans... -Smidge)(This is discussed in the Setsubun wiki, it is not rolled sushi - but "Lucky Direction Roll Sushi", it's named this because it is rolled in the direction of the Zodiac sign of the time of year.)

=== Bernoulli lemniscate ===

Latin for "[http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html a pendant ribbon]", a polar curve whose most common form is the locus of points the product of whose distances from two fixed points documented by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bernoulli Bernouli] in 1694.

=== Fuku wa uchi ===

The second half of the phrase "Oni wa soto! Fuku wa uchi!" (鬼は外! 福は内! - "Demons out! Luck in!") which is traditionally yelled while throwing the soy beans during Setsubun. Only the second half ("Luck In") is said because Haruhi wanted to be nice to the demons.

=== Naita Akaoni ===

[http://harujpn-citron.blogspot.com/2005/11/naita-akaoni.html Naita Akaoni] is a children's story about two kind demons, a Red and Blue demon, who wish to be friends with the humans, who are always running away from them.

== Discussion ==

=== General ===

=== "Hoping time will reverse." ===

: Here, I'm hoping that time will '''reverse'''. I have no clue what Haruhi is planning, since I need to come to terms with my own situation first. Starting to reminisce about the past year in February is a bit early, but since what I have to say is not unsayable, I might as well tell it enthusiastically and completely.

Is "reverse" the correct word here? The intent here isn't for time to flow backwards. It's more like Kyon wants to hit the "Pause" button and step out of "real" time while assimilating recent events, which involves rewinding the tape of the previous month and playing it forward. I can see the use of "reverse" here as a way to get accross the correct concept without it being literally accurate, but i can also see it as a placeholder in translation of a confusing passage.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 06:47, 19 February 2007 (PST)

=== "the wrong amount to set off" ===

''I think I know what Nagato wants to say. I had told Asahina-san that it was because Nagato had let the wrong amount to set off, so the world changed on December the eighteenth.''

This sentence doesn't seem right. Can anyone please confirm the translation?

:Well, Kyon told Mikuru Yuki had put too much data into it and caused the world to change. Maybe change it to Nagato had (exploded) too much data? ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

:I have taken some liberties here, putting in "set things in motion" as capturing the sense in idiomatic English. Could make it "caused the wrong current state to be entered" to stay closer to BaKaFiSh's translation. This contacts the notion of the universe-as-computer more clearly. Yeah, that's better, gonna change it.

=== "I'll give you something to see" ===

''The movie I was watching gradually disappeared. Has the service been cut? I'll give you something to see. Like during my three-day long memory loss, it's a brigade leader's responsibility to worry about the members, that's the way it is, Haruhi.''

This paragraph seems a bit confused. Can anyone please confirm the translation?

:maybe 'think about' instead of 'see' would make more sense... ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/setsubun.htm

: I read this as Kyon is talking to himself, and the thing that he clings to in the timeless, placeless void is Haruhi's concern for him. The 'you' being himself is the slippery point here, so if anything, I'd make it. "I'll give you something to see, Kyon."--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 07:56, 5 February 2007 (PST)

=== Lucky Daughters ===

Perhaps this is a reference to [http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/setsubun.htm Toshi Otoko] (the person/people who would throw the beans in such a ritual)?

=== "Box." ===

:When we first started, the students down below didn't know what was going on, and ran around like a group of insects not wanting to die. But before a minute had passed, the guys had come back in twos and threes and started to fight for the beans Asahina-san and Nagato were throwing down just like it was for money. They generally avoided the beans that Haruhi and her strong arms were firing off, considering it was kind of like the beans were fired out of a gun. For this, they moved in unison, going left and right at the same time.

:"'''Box'''."(<--makes no sense.)

:Haruhi then said, lamenting,

"Box" as in "Pass a box of ammo?" or as in "Stand and fight?" What kind of box? Smidge?--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 17:15, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Okay, on this pass, I'm taking it to mean "Stand and fight!" It fits in the context. I've made the edit. If nobody says this is a mistake, I'll delete this section in a while.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 15:31, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:: The original text says "しまったわ" (Shimatta wa). "Shimatta" is a mild explitive ("Damn it!") so I would translate this outburst as either "Damn it!" or "Damn you!" [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 16:15, 4 March 2007 (PST)

:The current ''Stand and Fight'' makes as little sense as the original ''Box'', given that she's ''lamenting''. '''Damn.''' would seem to fit better than either of Smidges' suggestions, as they seem too aggressive.
:BTW, why was ''Box'' used in the first place?
:JBV^_^

=== Koizumi's time diagram discussion ===

I'm not a translator...just a reader commenting on the story.

I'm sure you didn't mistranslated Koizumi's time loop explanation or least Kyon's interpretation of the left loop ("The left loop was the time I missed. It was the time from when I lost consciousness after being stabbed up to when I woke up in the hospital. Those three days were this loop.").

But when I tried to do it myself (yes I have lots of free time :p), I got a different diagram, so I think the author got it wrong or something:

[[Image:Suzumiya haruhi time travel timeline.png]]

If you look at the linked diagram, the right loop in Koizumi's diagram would be 3->4->1->3 in my diagram (which correspond to the events in Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi), and his left loop would 3->5->3 in mine (which correspond to the 3 days b/w the stairwell accident and Kyon waking up from his coma). But notice how there is no 5->3 in my diagram. Instead the left loop should be 6->3->5->6.

If you look at the diagram, you'll also see what Koizumi was talking about when he said "The memory we have but you don't have...... when you fell down the stairs on the eighteenth, to your awakening on the twenty-first, three days later, maybe it never existed." This involves deleting the line segment 3->5, and merging 4 and 5 into a single point that would describe 2 things: Kyon pressing the <Enter> key to travel to the past again; and the alternate timeline morphing back to the original timeline, where the memories of the deleted 3->5 segment are fake.

--[[User:Maian|Maian]] 10:07, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

:I think koizumi's drawing was much simpler from the one you did, probably something like this[http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=timelineng5.png].

=== "mass" ===

: Falling heads over heels and revolving in a no-gravity zone is something I have experienced many times before. Even though I think I'm used to these sensations, this time is vastly different from all the other times. If all the other times were like riding a roller-coaster in an amusement park, this is a noisy, anarchic space shuttle I'm randomly flying about in without a seat belt. But, since my body has no '''mass''', it is actually not being twirled around.

Mass is the amount of matter an object has while weight is the force due gravity.
With or without gravity, the amount of mass an object has doesn't change. Hence, even if Kyon, encounters something in a no-gravity zone, his mass will not change. To cut the story short, it should not be mass which is used here, it should be weight.

--[[User:jedlionheart|jedlionheart]] March, 2008

== Closed Discussion Items ==

The following discussion items ahve been resolved in some form or another...

=== Snow Mountain Syndrome reference ===

For uniformity, I decided to reference the location of the Snow Moutnain Syndrome storyline as a "mysterious mansion on the mountain" - this seems to adequately describe it without spoiling the actual story. To differentiate, the ''other'' location in that story is referred to as a villa.

=== doesn't fit SOS ===
'シズン毎にオンタイムな行事をしめやかに実行する組織'(literally something like Organization that respectfully holds events appropriate to the season....but that doesn't fit SOS)

Maybe something along the lines of "Specially Observing all events approriate to the Season"?

/kaoSFell

:yeah, there's a forum topic on it now~ http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=563 ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

=== Bernoulli line ===
I think they meant the lemniscate. See http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Curves/Lemniscate.html.
:I agree, it definitely matches up with Koizumi's drawing. (Also http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html)

=== Cleaning bin? ===
The last line of the prologue, you used the phrase "cleaning bin" of the literature club room. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but shouldn't it be utility closet? At least that's what I translated in Melancholy of Mikuru and Chapter 1. Since they're refering to the same object, I think we better standardize things a bit. Cleaning bin or utility closet? XD
--[[User:HolyCow|HolyCow]] 22:16, 2 December 2006 (PST)

:''Cleaning Bin'' sounds like a trash can. When I first read that line I thought, "Who's hiding in the trash can?". A utility/broom closet makes a lot more sense. I'll make that change when I revew the rest of the prologue later today. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 04:56, 3 December 2006 (PST)
::I thought the same :) [[User:Darkoneko|DarkoNeko]] [[User_Talk:Darkoneko|talk]] 05:22, 3 December 2006 (PST)
:::Sure, =P, I just put cleaning bin because that's how I store all my cleaning crap...I shove it into a bin in the closet downstairs...=P...I guess that would make more sense... ~~[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

== New Year has has! ==

''New Years has come and gone, and we left the troublesome old year behind almost a month ago. If time seems to have flown by, it's probably because you've kept yourself busy doing a lot of New Years related things during that first month.''

A I've stated in the inline comment I made, the first ''New Years'' should really be ''New Year's'', but that makes the first sentence New Year has has. The reason it shouldn't be '''years''' being that the first '''New Year''' refers to the current new year and hence should be singular, not plural.

The second should really be singular too, but it could be argued that it refers to things that are performed every year, hence can be left as a plural.

JBV^_^

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume6 Live A Live

2008-12-08T02:27:52Z

201.195.159.166:

==The proper tranalation of the title==

The title of this chapter should be Live Alive - it is the title that appeared in the Chinese tranlated version of the novel (Chinese version is published by Kadokawa Taiwan - subsidary of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadokawa_Shoten Kadokawa Shoten]). --Leeyc0

:I concur. The Katakana can't be said any other way anyway. [[User:150.101.121.216|150.101.121.216]] 05:47, 14 November 2006 (PST)

:Could it not be a pun, concerning the fact that Haruhi performed in a LIVE (concert)? It could also be a nod to the Super Nintendo RPG [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_A_Live Live A Live], in which the player takes on the role of one of the characters, and the other characters' separate plots converge (this is the first time in which the SOS Brigade is off doing their own thing, but come together at the LIVE ... heh.) --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 16:51, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

==Singular to Plural Feminine Inflection==
"Why? The sight of Haruhi and Nagato in her school festival outfit made me want to close my eyes. Why were those two in a Pop Music Society band?" Instead of "her" outfit, it should be "their" outfits.

Oh and: "The original lead singer and main guitarist was absent due to some unforseen events." - "was" should be "were". --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 23:31, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

:I forgot to sign, so the signature is the same as the signature for this reply. -_-; --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 23:31, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

==Molestation==

Quoested from this chapter:
"speaking of waitresses, all my dirty mind could think of was that tight uniform she wore in the movie, giving me a great urge to want to '''molest''' her."
Is molest an appropriate word? I can understand this transation if the original text said such a thing, but it seems out of Kyon's personality to say something like that.

==and and==

And that leader, bassist and and drummer actually agreed?

== The Secret Switch ==

''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi's has been switched on and was generating strange ideas once again.''

As it stands, the sentence implies that something that is part of Harui or that she owns has a secret switch, but doesn't actually say where the switch is.

This should changed to say ''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi's brain has been switched on...'' or just ''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi has been switched on...'' I've changed it to the latter as I think it's the better option.

JBV^_^

:I think its ''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi's mind has been switched on...'' or at least that's what the translators of the anime thought. Besides, it makes more sense to me, since it probably was a typing error.

== Plural Mistake ==

In the sentence:
"For Tsuruya-san, "a moment" probably meant a little over half an hour, because we had to wait for about thirty minutes before we finally arrived at the front of the queue and was let in the classroom."

I think you mean "... at the front of the queue and '''were''' let in the classroom."

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume6 Live A Live

2008-12-08T01:43:33Z

201.195.159.166:

==The proper tranalation of the title==

The title of this chapter should be Live Alive - it is the title that appeared in the Chinese tranlated version of the novel (Chinese version is published by Kadokawa Taiwan - subsidary of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadokawa_Shoten Kadokawa Shoten]). --Leeyc0

:I concur. The Katakana can't be said any other way anyway. [[User:150.101.121.216|150.101.121.216]] 05:47, 14 November 2006 (PST)

:Could it not be a pun, concerning the fact that Haruhi performed in a LIVE (concert)? It could also be a nod to the Super Nintendo RPG [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_A_Live Live A Live], in which the player takes on the role of one of the characters, and the other characters' separate plots converge (this is the first time in which the SOS Brigade is off doing their own thing, but come together at the LIVE ... heh.) --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 16:51, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

==Singular to Plural Feminine Inflection==
"Why? The sight of Haruhi and Nagato in her school festival outfit made me want to close my eyes. Why were those two in a Pop Music Society band?" Instead of "her" outfit, it should be "their" outfits.

Oh and: "The original lead singer and main guitarist was absent due to some unforseen events." - "was" should be "were". --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 23:31, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

:I forgot to sign, so the signature is the same as the signature for this reply. -_-; --[[User:Partymetroid|Aaron]] 23:31, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

==Molestation==

Quoested from this chapter:
"speaking of waitresses, all my dirty mind could think of was that tight uniform she wore in the movie, giving me a great urge to want to '''molest''' her."
Is molest an appropriate word? I can understand this transation if the original text said such a thing, but it seems out of Kyon's personality to say something like that.

==and and==

And that leader, bassist and and drummer actually agreed?

== The Secret Switch ==

''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi's has been switched on and was generating strange ideas once again.''

As it stands, the sentence implies that something that is part of Harui or that she owns has a secret switch, but doesn't actually say where the switch is.

This should changed to say ''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi's brain has been switched on...'' or just ''The secret switch that only exists in Haruhi has been switched on...'' I've changed it to the latter as I think it's the better option.

JBV^_^

== Plural Mistake ==

In the sentence:
"For Tsuruya-san, "a moment" probably meant a little over half an hour, because we had to wait for about thirty minutes before we finally arrived at the front of the queue and was let in the classroom."

I think you mean "... at the front of the queue and '''were''' let in the classroom."