Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2014-02-19T11:45:13Z

42.112.3.98:

[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1697525#post1697525 Illustration overview] reminder found in the project forum...

== How I enlist ? ==

I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here.
Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2148&start=195 project forum]. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose

actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - ([[User:Kili|Kili]])

The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: <nowiki>[[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]]</nowiki> ([[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]])), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.

am i wrong ?

I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've noticed some irregular grammar and English usage on several chapters, do the translators/lead editors for this series mind if I take an axe to these chapters? My English is pretty good, it's just that I may be a bit liberal in changing adjectives or phrasing of words --[[User:Asteradragon|Asteradragon]] 11:33, 6 April 2011 (EST)

==Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.==
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_'''Chapter1'''" So I think of them is wrong?
--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

==What the shit.==
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".

you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at [[user:Joay|Joay]] in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_light_novels] has synopses of all the novels. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work.
oh yeah, and... Ganbare!--[[User:AzraRillian|-AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis]] 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

===Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...===

The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?

And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what [[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?

Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

== What tense to use? ==

So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? [[user:AJS90|AJS90]] 21 March 2010

I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose

Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== I need illustrations for Volume 10 ==

Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping

would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7
-ark

== Pic translation ==
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).

Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: [[:Image:Index v01 002-003.jpg|Image 1]]; [[:Image:Index v01 004-005.jpg|Image 2]]; [[:Image:Index v01 006-007.jpg|Image 3]] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

== Just a slight concern. ==

As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping

== Spanish section request ==

I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--[[Special:Contributions/190.41.2.140|190.41.2.140]] 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternative Language Forum] for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose

== I'll try to translate a bit ==

Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet.
If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume.
Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

==Thanks for your work!!==
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast.
At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)

another fan of Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for all of the great work ^^)/

Just wanted to tip my hat to Js06, in recognition of his speed (averages a volume in under 2 weeks) and his grasp of colloquial English. [[Special:Contributions/75.92.217.27|75.92.217.27]] 14:34, 23 May 2013 (CDT)

== Translations? ==

I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff.
I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.

Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?

===Go ahead and just upload it===

The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.

Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.

EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Some Question ==

Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume...
and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?

===Here's what you need===

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline#Wiki_Editing_Tips

1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.

2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.

3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)

4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.

5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.

6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to
read.)

7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).

8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)

9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be <nowiki>[[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]</nowiki>

10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.

If you need any more help, you can pm me.

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

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==VOLUME 11==

english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?

===Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there===

Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

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Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.

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Actually, check the scan of the [http://img55.imageshack.us/f/009xf5.jpg/ original table of contents]. You'll see that it's actually in said gratuitous Italian. (This may be incorrect, but I doubt it) --[[User:MerrickXasis|MerrickXasis]]

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Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

==To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3==

Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous

the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.

==Consensus: Past or Present?==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 poll]'''
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With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the '''official''' Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that a discussion was recently started in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3547 forum] too --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:12, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 14 ==

I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?

I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

== Churches ==

To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England],[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church] exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa]. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.

"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).

I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.

Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.

イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "

--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*No hand facepalm...*

Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.

For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.

Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

That could need a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3514 guideline discussion]... ;) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:01, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.

My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use ''teaching,'' ''rite,''(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) ''tradition'' in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page [http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Amakusa-Style_Remix_of_Church] which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'

By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is ''suggesting'' real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:30, 17 November 2010

Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.

The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
 
 

Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?)
But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it.
Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author.
Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

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I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.

But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?

That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.

Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.

Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' '''only''' in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the ''Amakusa seikyou'' has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'

By this reasoning, '''only''' the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --[[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

凄 also means ''wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real''. --[[User:El Phoenix|El Phoenix]] 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:

* Prologue: 行動開始　The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: 学園都市　Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: ローマ正教　The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: イギリス清教　Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教　AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: 行動終了　The_Page_is_Shut. --[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Main Page Format ==
'''Please Vote [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll]'''
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Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.

And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.

So, ideas, opinions? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.

Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:

* Novel Illustrations
* Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened.
* Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship.
* Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
* Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church.
* Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
* Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut.
* Afterword

I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:

*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi.  ''The_Page_is_Opened.''

That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?

And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).

Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.

As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.

My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- [[User:Senile seinen|Senile seinen]] 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

We have created a [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=3562 poll] regarding that in the wiki!

@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...

Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <nowiki>  </nowiki> and with the "subtitle" in ''italic'' separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --[[User:Flere821|Flere821]] 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What would you think if it was formated like that:
----
===Example===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 3===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Prologue|Prologue: Radio Noise]]
** Level2
*Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Chapter1|Level0(and_More)]]
* Radio Noise
**Level2(Product_Model)

----
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
----
===Example 2===
'''<nowiki>===Volume 1===</nowiki>'''
*[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume3_Illustrations|Novel Illustrations]]
*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]
*'''Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 1|FAIR,_Occasionally_GIRL.]]
*'''Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 2|The_7th-Edge.]]
*'''Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 3|Forget_me_not.]]
*'''Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Chapter 4|(N)Ever_Say_Good_bye.]]
*'''Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Epilogue|Index-Librorum-Prohibitorum.]]

----
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:

*'''Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話'''
**[[To Aru Majutsu no Index:Volume1_Prologue|The_Imagine-Breaker.]]

Just a minor suggestion. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. [[User:The Shadow|The Shadow]] 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

==Awards==
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Short Synopsis==
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

==Header==
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

== chapter title Vol2 Ch3 ==

I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

=="To Aru" Majutsu no Index==
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

I spotted a lot of changes to 'Toaru' in the Recent changes, at which point I came here looking for information; what is the rationale behind changing To Aru to Toaru? 'To Aru' are definitely two separate words; the first is the particle To, the second is the verb Aru. There is no verb Toaru that I know of, though there is a verb Tooru (通る). As far as I am aware, it is not standard practice to run together non-noun words by leaving out their spaces (the difference between 'Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai' and 'Kami nomizo Shiru Sekai' which could easily be mistaken for a nonsensical 'Kami no mizo Shiru Sekai', for one thing...).

I call upon the weight of Google! '"To Aru Majutsu no Index"' 28 million results (including Toaru results), '"Toaru Majutsu no Index"' 3 million results, '"To Aru Majutsu no Index" -toaru' 26 million results. Google has spoken. (Can we reverse this local trend towards Toaru? Please? *puppy-dog eyes*)

Well, if you do not know for sure the correct choice, may as well go with what this^^ guy said. Probably won't make a difference either way, but according to myself and google, To Aru is the more recognizable. So why make hundreds of changes

I have direct proof from Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#Requested_move their consensus on this series being "Toaru Majutsu no Index"]. Yes, I should have provided this earlier, but you could've just walked into the discussion page. In any case, massive move finished. P.S.: Don't do *action* when trying to convince me of something; it hurts your case ''really'' badly. --[[User:Tactician J|Tact]] 10:48, 16 June 2011 (UCT)

== Underscores ==

Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did [[User:Kraft|Kraft]] take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --[[User:Lighthalzen|Lighthalzen]] 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

==Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?==
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Text pages get single pages, but two-/three-page illustration spreads will be fused together, more or less. --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

==Thought processes==
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), ''italics'', or ''(italics and parenthesis)''. Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]]

Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but '''Italics''' just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --[[User:Snorca|Snorca]] 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

== british vs american english ==

which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

british will be better because they don`t use america--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Do you mean to say that the story has English characters but no (few?) American characters? That makes some sense.--[[User:CarVac|CarVac]] 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

American English. See the [[Format_guideline#Spelling_and_Grammar|Format guideline]]. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

That standard was established before we had multiple projects, and was left in. given that it was written for when we only had one project, should it be up to each project to decide which version?
the original line was this:
:* '''Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors & Readers the standard spelling lexicon for this project will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary]''' --13:18, 26 April 2006 by [[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]]

the current version in place is
:Due to the nature of this website, and the nationality of the majority of Editors and Readers, the standard spelling lexicon for this Wiki will be based upon American English as defined by the Fourth Edition of the [http://www.bartleby.com/61/ American Heritage Dictionary] --5:37, 16 March 2007 by [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]]

which was changed as part of the original update altering the format page from a Haruhi only version to a version for all projects.

also, [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] stopped editing a year before this project was created: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index&dir=prev&action=history here] vs [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Smidge204 here]. and thus the format page, in it's current form, would not have considered a project that might have reason to use british english.

As the current text came about due to a change regarding the style of the formatting page, and not as an actual policy decision, and as the party who made the original style decision is no longer on the wiki to ask, I argue that the statement currently on the format page can be overridden by the people working on a particular project, especially if there is reason beyond personal preference, as has been argued above.

thus we come back to the question: which would the contributors prefer for this project? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 14:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah stop arguing. As the one responsible for all of these, I'll take the charges (my job anyway, haven't updated the Supervisor tag)

I have already PMed Big Boss regarding this, so if he doesn't have any personal preference regarding this, I will make the decision.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 14:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

To quote the PM:

[quote="thelastguardian"]Well, if they are from England, of course they speak British English :p . Seems perfectly logical to me.[/quote]

There you have it. I'm going to introduce a new set of guidelines soon.

I'd let the England-based characters speak British English, but what about the narration? --Tactician J 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't like the idea of switching languages here and there so easily, feels weird to me because it's like the characters are in a different realm from the readers.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

== Dragon ==

who is this dragon in vol 15?

see volume 19 --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== who's gonna translte volume 15 and 19? ==

can someone translate all of volume 15 and 19? the parts about shiage are just epic.

- Give it some time. JS06 is translating SS1. Volume 15 hasn't been translated dedicated-ly since December and Vol 19 was mostly translated by Flare in December-who is less active now. Volume 15 has a higher chance of being translated soon after SS1 is completed.

Well, I'm not letting anyone translate 15 until Joay himself says that he will allow others to take over.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 17:45, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

+ That's fine. Can you ask Joay if it is ok for others to take over vol 15?

Sounds like you are under the assumption that someone would do it if no Joay doesn't they might work the earlier novels... On a side note can someone post on the boards that activation email are down. I can't get the activation email and I can't post telling someone to look into that. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] 01:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Way ahead of you, check js06's talk page.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 02:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

== volume 23 and 24 ==

i heard its out already, volume 23 and 24. are you guys going to translate them?

Volume 23 will be called New Testament Volume 1. As for whether we will be translating it, you can bet on it once we get resources.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 13:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

==And Misaka Mikoto?==
Looks like the novel have the "New testament" series and you already put a Spoier about Touma (Dead), Accelerator and Shiage, but WHAT HAPPENED TO MISAKA? (and index but I relly do not care too much).

== SS Volume 2? ==

Just wondering: where in the timeline does SS Volume 2 take place? On the main page it's shown between Volumes 16 and 17, but on the Registration page it's shown between Volumes 19 and 20.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 00:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

== alternative language? ==

according to Category:Alternative Languages, british english is an alternative language. does this mean this project is, or only that projects with a british english variant are alternative? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 19:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

== Terminology ==

In Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4, Tatemiya Saiji is referred to as "Substitute Pope". He was previously referred to in Volumes 7 and 11 as "substitute Supreme Pontiff" (likewise, Kanzaki Kaori is referred to as "Supreme Pontiff"). If the Japanese writing for these terms is the same in each instance, then it would be best to pick a standard translation and use that.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 05:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit:
Also "Acqua of the Back" (Volume 14 Epilogue) versus "Acqua of the Rear".

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 06:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

It's Supreme Pontiff and Acqua of the Back, according to the TamnI wiki. We follow their spellings and terminology, as far as I know. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, alright then. I've been avoiding looking at the wiki because every time I look at it, I accidentally read another spoiler.

--[[User:Stiyl|Stiyl]] 04:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

==New Testament: Toaru Majutsu no Index or Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament?==

Just to make sure we have a set standard for how the title should be, should we refer to the new series with NT in front of the title or after? Since Kamachi has "Shinyaku" in front of "Toaru Majutsu no Index", I'm inclined to believe that it's his intention to have the series referred to with New Testament at the front of the title. Also, do really need to have 'NT' in front of the volumes? I don't think it's necessary personally. -- [[User:Suzuku|Suzuku]] 22:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I just named it like that because I was too lazy to put in spacing in front...--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 07:58, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

==Volume 22 - continuation?==

If I may ask, I've been around B-T since the last week of October and I noticed that Volume 22 almost done and were left hanging, will any translator still going to translate the rest of the parts? Please don't take my question in a different way, thank you. -- アクシス

As of now, our only hope here is for either js06 or pikachuwei to finish up those parts. I'm out, that's for sure. No problems asking about who will translate the volumes or whatsoever, but I am 'a bit' annoyed about timeframes, seeing how recent events have gone for me, so I am terribly sorry if I antagonized anyone because of this.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 07:43, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

Iiya, Iiya, I truly understand, I'm just asking, if it is going to be continued or not because I'm planning to order the novel, if it is not (^_^;). Your answer was a yes, so I'll keep waiting, there're still many LN's here anyway that are very interesting to read like Bt-Tt-Shoukanjuu, Mushi to Medama, Fate/Zero, ZnT and many more that'll take me months to finish it. Thanks for anwsering (￣▽￣)ノ -- アクシス

== The Spin-Offs ==

Are there plans to translate those? Because if not, I suggest that they link to the summaries posted in the To Aru wiki, so that people can at least know what happens in those stories.

Maybe, good point. As of now, there are plans to translate the side story, but the main story takes precedence. I can assure you though that there are plans to do that.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 07:43, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

Then, if main story is highest priority, then will translation of Volume 17 be next after NT is completed? --[[Special:Contributions/164.107.33.220|164.107.33.220]] 12:59, 25 March 2011 (EDT)Lojik:)

Is there a PDF version for Toaru Kagaku no Railgun SS: A Superfluous Story, or A Certain Incident’s End? Been looking around and couldn't find one.

== Volume SS1 - Afterword? ==

Will the afterword of SS1 be translated? I'm quite interested in Kamachi Kazuma's thoughts.

When Js06 posted the link to the epilogue (or was it the full text?) on 4chan, I asked him if there was no afterword. He said there isn't. I also checked now the raw, and seems the last thing is the epilogue. [[User:Kokonice|Kokonice]] 18:21, 19 April 2011 (UCT)

== Are there any translations regarding Bardway? ==

With her appearance in New Testament and the side-mention in the arc for volumes 17/18 making her existence increasingly relevant, is there any possibility of translations of stories in which Bardway has appeared directly (referred to on the Wikipedia character page)? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index_characters#Dawn-colored_Sunlight) (Thank you very much for your time; I wish to convey extreme gratitude for the translating which has been done!)

Well, the rest are on the side stories, which aren't translated, ''yet''.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 10:09, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

== Kreuzhev or Croitsev ? ==
I recently made some edits to standardize the name, so I change croitsev to kreuzhev, but after further check, it seems the toaru wikia use Croitsev and the Project Guidelines also use it. But Kreuzhev seems more original in terms of russian name.
Which one should we use?
Teh_Ping use Croitsev in vol 4 and Js06 use Kreuzhev in later volumes [[User:Xenocross|Xenocross]] 21:55, 22 June 2011 (UCT)

It's "Croitsef", according to Season 2's character info on her. I know I indicated this in the Project-Specific Guidelines... --[[User:Tactician J|Tact]] 01:47, 24 June 2011 (UCT)

==THANK YOU!==
OMG YOU DID IT!!! Thank you guys so much and please keep up the good work on the side stories! (Yeah, I know some of the early on volumes of the main series aren't finished, but people can just watch season 1 of the show to find out what happens)
Question: Is the author of TAMnI a lolicon? There's loli every where in each chapter of the book

* Light Novel authors tend to be lolicons. Or they think that lolicon protagonists are awesome. The pedo protagonist made me stop reading Hidan to Aria and watching Shana. Hopefully Touma won't end up a lolicon.

==Religion vs Denomination==
I've seen it multiple times through the series, and the following stood out the most: "The three largest religions of Christianity have finally joined forces." Technically, the only Religion at play here is Christianity, The Anglican Church, The Roman Catholic Church and The Russian Orthodox Church are all denominations of Christianity, not religions of Christianity (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination)
--[[User:Draringi|Draringi]] 15:47, 4 July 2011 (UCT)

"The three largest factions of Christianity have finally joined forces."
Better?
[[User:Kokonice|Kokonice]] 16:28, 4 July 2011 (UCT)

That is correct. For me, I put it as 'sect' to make it as unrealistic though.

My vicar's going to give me one long sermon if he finds out that the 'model student' is actually doing this series...--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 16:41, 4 July 2011 (UCT)

@Kokonice: I was thinking "The three largest denominations of Christianity have finally joined forces.", but anything other than religion is an improvement --[[User:Draringi|Draringi]] 01:23, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

== Something that may need to change ==

In the "Others" section in the "Series Overview" section, it says next to the two Railgun SS that they are each a set of eight short stories. I haven't read them yet, but I was under the impression that they were each a whole story split into eight parts and not eight stand alone stories. Is a change necessary?

== nicer navbar ==

[[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] was nice and fixed the mess I made into this great navbar:
{{Toaru Nav}}
Shall we use this? I can't see any downsides.--[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:31, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Other than it looking like a wikipedia Navbar (with all the additional navs, I have no problems with it, go for it then.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] 07:36, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

How should we add the official parody to the nav bar? in with side stories? under it's own section? a subsection of sidestories? just keep it left out? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] ([[User talk:Saganatsu|talk]]) 22:38, 26 February 2013 (CST)

== Volume 19 ==

I just started reading Vol. 19 and it seems to need some heavy editing, at least in the beginning. It's readable, but it does distract from the story a little. I'd help myself, but I'd rather get up to date with the series first.

well, volume 19 will be fully locked on 17/10/2011 if the date doesnt change again, so if you are up to date be4 that you can try to edit yourself, just take care to follow the format standards [[User:Carj|Carj]] 20:32, 17 August 2011 (CDT)

Like I said, I can help. But I would seriously advise for a veteran editor to check it out before the lock. For starters, while I'm confident with my English, it isn't my native language. [[Special:Contributions/190.62.5.160|190.62.5.160]] 00:01, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I could probably edit volume 19 sooner or later because I still have to read volumes 15, SS 2, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 for personal interest. I could just edit the volumes as I read, but I would like another editor to assist me if possible. [[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 06:31, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

Well, I figure that I can edit as I read as well. If you don't need someone with experience I may be of assistance.[[Special:Contributions/190.62.56.180|190.62.56.180]] 13:37, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I would strongly recommend creating an account first if you're going actively edit. Your help is more than welcomed. --[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 15:17, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

I started a little bit, please check it up (ch. 1, part 1). --[[User:Ppaaccoojrf|ppaaccoojrf]] 17:39, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

== Unreadable emails in SS1 / vol14 ==

Hi, does anyone know what was in the emails Misaka sent to Toma during the SS1 arc where Toma was having the class hot-pot outing? I'm re-reading the novels (good job translators!) but cannot find out what was the event for the handphone mails. It was said Misaka also called Toma but lost connection. Would be grateful if anyone can tell me thanks!

At this point it's not revealed: we'll have to wait for the railgun manga to get there... --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 07:25, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

I see, thanks. I thought it might be involved with one of the SS with Misaka as the lead. Lets see what the author comes up with.

== NT3 Chapter Names ==

Well, after reading the prologue, I have a strong belief that what I had "In the Fifty States" is more accurate. Fifty States refers to the United States, and there is no mention of a fiftieth state or anything like that in the prologue. What are the opinions of others? --[[User:Jonathanasdf|jonathanasdf]] 19:31, 11 December 2011 (CST)
:No, the chapter title is correct. The scene takes place in Hawaii, which was the 50th and final(for now) state to join the United States. [[Special:Contributions/108.208.102.9|108.208.102.9]] 19:42, 11 December 2011 (CST)
::Ahh, thanks for explaining that. --[[User:Jonathanasdf|jonathanasdf]] 19:45, 11 December 2011 (CST)

== Was this ever translated? ==
[http://r-s.sakura.ne.jp/w/s/ipi.htm It's a short story on Kiyotaka's website.]

== NT Volume 4 ==
Just a suggestion. When the traslition of NT 4 is finished you could divde the book in 4, 5 or 8 chapters, because that should look better. I do not understand why the autor divided the book like that.

honestly by the looks of the chapters it looks like an ss volume, if you know what i mean. Anyways i think most tlers like to keep everything as close to the authors work as possible.--[[User:J112|J112]] 15:09, 13 March 2012 (CDT)

I know that, but you could use the "Period" parts to divide the chapters, there are 3 "Periods", and in the end you have some chapters like "A_Cardinal_Error.34", "Capter n" and the epilogue.

I suggest something like this (when the translation is finished):

*Illustrations
*Chapter 1 (01-07)
*Chapter 2 (08-21)
*Chapter 3 (22-32)
*Chapter 4 (33-37)
*Afterword

Or:

*Illustrations
*Chapters 01-07
*Chapters 08-21
*Chapters 22-32
*Chapters 33-37
*Afterword

*Illustrations
*Chapter 1
*Chapter 2
*Chapter 3
*Chapter 4
*Afterword

NOTE: 07, 21 and 32 are "Period" parts

== Haimura's website ==

'''js06''' recently translated his comments info on the character designs and such. isn't it possible for those to be added here as well?
[[User:Hao-sama|Hao-sama]] 08:33, 13 June 2012 (CDT)

== The extent of Touma's ability's nullifying... ==
I recall the time when Index first experience Touma's ability there was a mention of something like negate God's miracles and bringing him misfortune. Could that right hand have nullified Touma's ability to perceive the garden thrust before his eyes every single day? I mean there are instances where you can tell he is a healthy young male but REALLY? REALLY REALLY? Before the great battle between 'the erotic fallen angel vs the ever so holy elemental fairy' I would have sought proper compensation to bring forth such a grand battle even sooner. He may be suffering from a misfortune greater than we can imagine.

That's for my first theory. However my second theory is that right hand brings misfortune to others. As Mikoto is Misuzu's biological daughter but the difference is... well anyways, maybe her contact with Touma had some unwanted effects? How convenient was the explanation of what happened to Fraulein Kreutune afterwords? Even though Hamazura has Takitsubo did Touma's intervention influence Fremea's presence. Accelerator only needed to complete the Level 6 Shift Project, his powers weren't meant for babysitting. Can Touma's right hand really negate God's miracles? Is the world facing a new crisis after WWIII? What happen to that forest of huge breast from when first appeared in the NT series? What the hell is he doing with people like Birdway and Cendrillon?

Yea I'm up to no good [[User:Keisanichi|Keisanichi]] ([[User talk:Keisanichi|talk]]) 21:58, 2 February 2013 (CST)

-for your first theory I'm pretty sure that he just claims that ...it can nullify anything it touches ..
he Is healthy bit he used to misfortune that he really don't see any fortune in getting a girl (espicially after index bitting him always and mikoto shocking him almost every time they meet) another thing that he don't remember meeting them the first time it makes him awkward w/them ..
about mikoto's ""unwanted effects?"" she still young right ?--[[User:Ahmadmanga|Ahmadmanga]] ([[User talk:Ahmadmanga|talk]]) 16:39, 14 April 2013 (CDT)

==What happened . .==

Hello guys, just recently checked TaMnI wiki page and noticed the Supervisor notice, (Not that I want to add further into the subject), removal of Novel Cover Illustrations for each volume. I mean, what happened? (point = Internal wars? where/what is this?). Also, the illustrations for each volume was already translated and under editing, all that is still untranslated would be Volume 6 of New Testament. [[User:Carinderyeah|Carinderyeah]] ([[User talk:Carinderyeah|talk]]) 00:01, 23 March 2013 (CDT)

Regarding the novel cover illustrations, I don't think they have ever been next to each volume. Some projects seem to have the cover illustrations next to the volumes on the main page; others, like this one, simply don't. Regarding the supervisor notice, there was one set of undo's and a little discussion regarding some formatting. Unless there were communications that weren't visible to me, I assumed that TehPing was just preemptively saying not get him involved. I wouldn't have called it a "war". Perhaps it is a little confusing to visitors to have that bit of the message be the first thing they see coming to this page... --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 18:46, 23 March 2013 (CDT)

== Volume 21 ==

Hello, when I was importing volume 21 into my library, I noticed that it shared the same metadata as volume 20, and problems occurred. For some reason, I can't edit the PDF's metadata, so I would appreciate it if someone could reupload it with the proper metadata. Thanks.

Ah, looks like the name was the same as volume 20. Here, see if [http://www.mediafire.com/?nrf1q77tmld9yax this] one works. -[[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]] ([[User talk:Ultranova17|talk]]) 02:51, 13 May 2013 (CDT)

== Seivelun sisters' paired language quirks: ==

I've previously asked and learned that Fremea's often-used term is 'Daitai'. Today, watching the eighth Railgun S episode, I've learned that Frenda also uses a term often, 'Kekkyoku'.
 | 
If I understand correctly, currently the translations here are consistent with those on the To Aru/Toaru wiki, 'Essentially' and 'Basically'. However, from the nuances of common use, 'Daitai' and 'Kekkyoku' can also be translated as 'In the first place' and 'In the end'. These can be seen as complementary(/bookend) phrases, appropriate given the sibling relationship (and maybe also their younger/older statuses?), and may be better choices for communicating that link to readers unaware of the terms' original forms.
 | 
I am aware that it would be inconvenient to go through all usages and implement this, but I nevertheless request that it be considered. If time passes and there is no objection, I may attempt this myself (with my apologies if I attempt it and it is objected to after the fact). Thank you for your time! -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 03:43, 1 June 2013 (CDT)

My opinion as someone who reads and edits Index is that, in general for things that fall into the realm of preference/format, it's good to go with what the translator(s) use so that it's consistent with the least number of edits. Not having any jp language skills, I can't speak to whether the nuance of those terms would be a matter of accuracy rather than preference, but if so, it seems to me that it would then be considered a major edit that should be approved by the translator or supervisor first. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:06, 2 June 2013 (CDT)
:Thank you for this! The translators are likely multiple, and the "just don't involve me" supervisor notice on the main page leaves doubt as to the preferred course of action, but the '[...]before any major contribution' paragraph on the Registration page gives someone else to approach for guidance (though in theory only required for Anonymous contributions?). *will attempt to do so* -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 16:20, 3 June 2013 (CDT)
::While there have been many translators who have contributed, the only currently active one is [[User talk:js06|js06]]. And as for supervisor, I was referring to the one in the [[To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index#Project_Staff|project staff list]], [[User talk:Teh_Ping|Teh_Ping]]; however, as you noted, the supervisor notice implies he may not be interested in deciding on this issue. I noticed that you contacted thelastgaurdian. He is the head admin (creator) for the wiki, and he wouldn't normally get involved with project specific things like this. Also, he apparently no longer visits the wiki frequently and is [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=186492#p186492 very hard to get a hold of]. I would say [[User talk:js06|js06]] is the one you most likely want to contact. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 17:13, 3 June 2013 (CDT)
:::Thank you very much for the information! *copies across* -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 02:12, 4 June 2013 (CDT)

This had never really occurred to me as "in the first place" is a secondary meaning of 大体 and I was trying to match it to "basically", but you have a point. On top of that, I honestly can't even remember why I chose "basically" instead of the more accurate "in the end" for Frenda. You can change it if you want and I'll check to see what is being used the next time one of the characters shows up. However, I've noticed that people often oppose changes to accepted translations of terms or speech patterns even when the new version is better and/or more accurate, so it's possible people will try to change it back or complain. [[User:Js06|Js06]] ([[User talk:Js06|talk]]) 12:14, 4 June 2013 (CDT)

That works for me. Anyone that has a problem with the change can be linked to this page for further discussion. I'll begin work on changing the text in the illustrations and the PDFs. Were you going to go ahead and make the changes on BT Multipartite? -[[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]] ([[User talk:Ultranova17|talk]]) 14:04, 4 June 2013 (CDT)

ooh, do go through with this. I do believe that since at least in this case, "in the first place" and "in the end" carry significant (if not symbolic) meaning that shouldn't be lost, it would be good to have the translations reflect this. I am behind you 100% (and too lazy to help you out myself) [[User:SonodaYuki|SonodaYuki]] ([[User talk:SonodaYuki|talk]]) 21:06, 4 June 2013 (CDT)

My thanks! I would be glad to attempt the changes; I will aim to begin within the day (possibly in two-to-three hours when I should have a large block of time). If I record the number of changes in each section here, it should make it easier to change again in the worst-case scenario. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 03:14, 5 June 2013 (CDT)

(Starting with the special cases first, then panning out to the normal cases.) 
Frenda wiki page, 2 changes; Fremea wiki page, 3 changes. 
NTV6C5 Part 1, 4 (proxy) Frenda changes; other parts, 7 Fremea changes. 
No mention of either sister's name in any of the Side Stories, in SS1, or in SS2. No changes to make in V22. 
Frenda's lifespan narrowed down to V15 chapters 2 and 4 only, to my surprise. Chapter 2, 8 Frenda changes (Part 2 only); Chapter 4, 0 Frenda changes. 
| 
In V15C4, there's a line 'Basically, that was all Frenda was – all a comrade was – to Mugino.' As it's not something that Frenda says I've left it unchanged, but if it's 'Kekkyoku' then it's very likely a deliberate narrative reference to her way of speaking, in which case it should be changed. 
| 
Saving this record for the moment; will immediately continue and finish (unless I've overlooked a volume) with the NT volumes, looking for Fremea's name and/or words only. This is taking a little longer than it otherwise might as I find myself enjoying rereading sections I haven't read in a while. *happiness* -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 06:33, 5 June 2013 (CDT)
:(Actually, my desire for thoroughness/completeness is niggling at me. I'm assuming 'Kekkyoku' for the V15C4 line and changing it, but please change it back if it's in fact different. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 06:38, 5 June 2013 (CDT))
NTV1C3 8 Fremea changes; NTV1C4 5 Fremea changes; NTV1C5 4 Fremea changes. 
I consistently end up nostalgically rereading the chapters... nevertheless, it's getting late, so I'll make an effort to not do so for the remaining volumes. 
NTV2C2 5 Fremea changes; NTV2C3 1 Fremea change. 
NTV5C2 2 Fremea changes; NTV5C4 20 Fremea changes. 
NTV6C6 10 Fremea changes; NTV6C7 2 Fremea changes. 
NTV6C2 5 Fremea changes; NTV6C3 3 Fremea changes; NTV6C4 2 Fremea changes; NTV6Epilogue 3 Fremea changes. 
Complete! (Unless I've overlooked something.) ((*happiness*)) -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 11:10, 5 June 2013 (CDT)

You were right. It is 'Kekkyoku'. --[[User:Rock96|Rock96]] ([[User talk:Rock96|talk]]) 11:18, 5 June 2013 (CDT)
:(*happiness!*) Thank you for checking! -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 17:50, 5 June 2013 (CDT)

== Regarding the Creation of a Calendar/Timeline Section for the Index Project Page ==

'''Okay, maybe not a timeline per say (as we already have one on the Index Wiki).'''

It is now the tenth year of the Index franchise and the material in it is getting 'slightly' annoying to put into some sort of chronological order. Not surprising since the franchise spans 2 light novel series, 3 manga series, 4 anime series and a bunch of side stories.

I have noticed for a while that on the Sword Art Online page there is a timeline section which organizes and presents the events that occur in the light novels as a visual timeline and a text based one similar to the one on the Index Wiki. '''This is not what I am asking for.'''

What I am asking for is a similar section on the Index page which displays a visual representation of all of the events which have occurred in the Index Light Novel Series, the Railgun manga series and the Side Stories. However since the events in Index seem to occur in consecutive short periods of time usually lasting a day to 3 days, it would not be a timeline but more of a '''calendar''' for the current year in the Index continuity.

Of course, I am not asking any of '''you''' guys to make it. I've sort of already gone through the trouble. I have created a PNG file called '''A Certain Unified Calendar''' which organizes every single story arc in the light novels, manga and adaptations (minus a few exceptions) into a nice colour coded calendar. The calendar is chronologically correct, well presented and has a small file size (368KB). There are spoilers for a few of the early novels but aside from that the only real spoilers are the names of the story arcs.

I made the calendar for a few reasons. Firstly, IMO the timeline on the Index wiki is far too congested with information and we needed a nice streamlined way of viewing the order of events. Secondly, for the sake of the unfortunately split fanbases of both Index and Railgun. Index and Railgun form an interconnected narrative and particularly in Railgun, one requires knowledge of the events and timeline of the other series to get 100 percent of the implied meaning. Also I was getting tired of Railgun fans watching the current Railgun S anime questioning the order of events or "whether a certain event had occurred yet or not", etc... Lastly, I had a lot of free time on my hands and would be happy to share this with the fandom. ''There may also be a small hint of jealousy there due to Sword Art Online but you can ignore that.''

I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Also as I am a new user here I am not entirely sure how to upload the file on my computer to the site if need be; rather I dont know any of the formalities on this site. A bit of help on that would also be appreciated.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 03:26, 8 July 2013 (CDT)

Well since no one has said anything to the contrary, I have gone ahead and created a section for the Calendar. If no one likes the inclusion of the calendar, first discuss it here and remove it on an agreed consensus. In the mean time, I will eventually ask for a thread to be opened up on the Animesuki forum as the place for discussion regarding any revisions that may need to be made to the calendar as the story progresses.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 07:52, 10 July 2013 (CDT)

Alright. I love it. Thank you so much.
I've been re-reading the novels, and I need to get around to watching the Railgun anime. This makes it a lot easier to remember what went on in which volume and when. [[User:Astralmeson|Astralmeson]] ([[User talk:Astralmeson|talk]]) 13:08, 10 July 2013 (CDT)

The calendar section has been moved from the top of the page to under the PDFs as per Teh Ping's suggestion.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 10:04, 29 July 2013 (CDT)

== Name of Gremlin magicians (and related) ==

I've seen that all of the names of Gremlin magicians have been explained... but one. And that's Othinus. From what I've found, "Othinus" is latin for "Odin", which explains why she's the head and why she seeks Gungnir. And I don't know if it will be relevant, but on Odin's second exile, he was replaced by Ullr (Ollerus, in latin), an skiing hunting archer god (take note Odin was originally a hunting god too).--[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 14:05, 24 September 2013 (CDT)

== Index project page renovations feedback ==
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" data-collapsetext="Hide" data-expandtext="Show">
Just my personal opinion/feedback on the changes to the project page. My personal preference is to avoid extra clicking, even at the expense of extra scrolling; so I preferred it when the chapter links were available without having to click the "show" icon, even if it meant I had to scroll (scroll wheel ftw) though the entire (long) page. For things like awards, I do prefer them hidden since I don't need to see them each time I visit the page. But finding and clicking on the chapter links is the main reason I visit the page. Also, one unfortunate loss of functionality is that clicking on a link in the table of contents no longer brings you to that volume (unless you've already clicked show to open the table). My preference/vote would be that the tables that hide the chapters be set to default open when loading the page, and then those that want to can close them by clicking "hide". With regards to the volume covers, I don't think it's necessary, but I'm pretty apathetic. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:51, 2 December 2013 (CST)

Also, particularly if the chapter tables stay closed, I suggest adding the volume ranges in parenthesis for each set so it's easier to know which table needs to be opened to find the volume you want. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:51, 2 December 2013 (CST)

I agree with quite a few things you said. Additionally, I'd like the Table of Contents to reflect what the collapsed tables look like.
--[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 23:03, 2 December 2013 (CST)

 
I have made edits such that the collapsible tables will start open when you first navigate to the page (or when the page is refreshed). This means you will be able to use the ToC to navigate to the novel you want without hassle or needing to open tables, etc. I am hesitant about making changes to the ToC as I dont know how these edits may influence viewing the series on the bakareader ex app (I am probably worrying about this unneccesarily). If there are no problems with that, I too agree that ToC should be edited to reflect the tables. Also, now that the tables will start open, I may be able to take out the volume ranges in the parenthesis (with consultation obviously).

The addition of the novel covers to the page shouldn't really affect older readers of the series (rather they should be indifferent to it); however, as long as it makes the page and series even just a little bit more enticing, appealing, accessible to the newer readers it can't be a bad thing. I stopped at Volume 22 after being given a heads up by [[User:Skies|Skies]] about getting permission from Teh Ping. I have tried to contact him via Animesuki and his Index Talk Page for feedback regarding the edits but he has yet to respond (though he gave me permission to use the tables). If he doesn't say anything regarding them, I will probably put up the rest of the covers within a week from now unless Teh Ping responds. It should be easy to remove the covers and change things back to how they were should Teh Ping say otherwise.
--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 01:44, 6 December 2013 (CST)
:::I have edited headings so that the ToC reflects the collapsible tables.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 15:50, 6 December 2013 (CST)
:::I have modified the page a bit more by compacting the Parody Stories Section, adding in experimental 'Back to Contents' links and other minor edits.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 20:22, 7 December 2013 (CST)

:I think I have gotten the hard part out of the way. I have changed the code on the collapsible tables so that they work better with the browser. Each collapsible table can now be expanded and collapsed by clicking on the corresponding colour bar. The opening and closing animations for the tables have noticably improved. The tables have the same initial state from before so there should be no hassles with navigating using the ToC.
:Lastly, I have added a toggle above the ToC that once clicked, collapses all of the open novel sections. This is particularly useful when first navigating to the page and allows the viewer to quickly close all the open sections. The downside is that the code screws up if they the sections arent all open or all closed. eg. if one is open and the rest are closed, clicking the button will lead to one being closed and the rest being opened. If there is a code that only collapses the novel sections, I am all ears.
:Things left to do include:
::Fixing the aforementioned toggle problem.
::Add novel covers for the rest of the series (follwing the plan that was outlined above)
::Modify first paragraph to include updated information (towards end of month)
:::I was contemplating making a character introduction section as well but I realised how stupid that would be for this series.
:I plan to finalise all of these edits before New Testament Volume 9 is released. Continual feedback is welcome as always.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 22:24, 8 December 2013 (CST)
 
::Finally managed to fix that master toggle problem to a degree that I actually feel satisfied with. Only Pictures and Opening Paragraph are left. Pictures on Friday, Opening Paragraph modified next year.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 07:31, 10 December 2013 (CST)

Starting off with a bit more simple feedback: --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)
*One thing that seems a little awkward to me is having the close/open all bar (and now the individuals too) at the top of the page. Because of the toc and other sections in between, that bar isn't together with the actual volumes, so it's a little strange to open and close them without being able to see it happen. I would probably put it right above the "The Toaru Majutsu no Index series" header.
*Something very minor is that the "series overview" collapsible tables at the bottom currently have the two newest entries outside the tables, but I would say they can be lumped in with the rest that are under the table (even if there translations haven't been completed). I also prefer the current version of the side stories collapsible table where the Necessarius SS is included in the table, as opposed to a past version where it was the only thing outside the tables when they were collapsed. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)

It's somewhat difficult for me to give feedback because I think I have a different personal preference for the project page. I tend to prefer things be simple, but you obviously prefer the added functionality (I'm not saying either is view is better than the other). I think the following things will fall under this difference of views, so they're less likely to be useful for your vision for the project page: --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)
*I do think that which volumes went into the anime is useful information to have somewhere on the page (since people always ask), but I probably wouldn't have divided up the volume links into as many pieces. I probably would have just made OT, NT, and other stories as tables, under the assumption that the table collapse would be most commonly used by people skipping OT to get to the newest NT chapter (but I still prefer to have all tables default open). The other things is the divisions use headers/breakdowns that are, I assume, not official labels (Prelude to War, WWIII, Gremlin Saga), though I could be wrong about that. I think they're very reasonable labels, but it still falls under my general preference of keeping things simple.
*For me personally, the back to contents links aren't as necessary since I just use the (browser's) back button on my mouse. But maybe others would use them.
*I would probably put all of the award years under a single collapsible table, since that would be less clicking for me if I wanted to look at the awards over the years (my guess is that someone would want to either look at all of the awards or none of them). I do agree with the use of the collapsed table in general here, because the awards are too long and would take up too much space before getting to the chapter links. I would also same the same thing (a single collapsible table) for the "series overview" tables at the end, but there's fewer there, so I don't notice it as much.
*When I first encountered your new style of table, it took me a little getting used to the fact that the whole thing was effectively a button and that my mouse cursor didn't switch to the 'link' version (a hand). Though this might just mean I'm not as used to dealing with interactive websites. I do think the tables are fancier with this new version, and I wouldn't suggest changing anything. I just thought I'd mention it here since it was the first thing I noticed about them, though I've gotten perfectly used it after using them a few times.
*The cover images don't currently align with the volume headers. Many pages with cover images have code to do that, but I'm not sure if I would actually want it here because it would make everything a little bit longer. But as I said before, I'm pretty apathetic about cover images whatever is done with them (unless it's the left-right alignment, then I'd have a stronger opinion against it, no offense meant to Cautr).
As I said, I don't expect you to necessarily act on that feedback since our viewpoints are different, I was just elaborating on those since you asked for feedback. As far as the actual code, I don't notice any bugs when using it, and the tables do have some fancy functionality and formatting. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 20:21, 10 December 2013 (CST)

Well you don't need to worry about whether your feedback will be helpful or not. Even a contrarian's feedback has its uses. If I can make you happy at the same time as accomplishing my goals, its a victory for everyone! Anyway, just to address the things you have said:
:*"''I would probably put (the template) right above the "The Toaru Majutsu no Index series" header.''" == '''That sounds like it is worth trying.'''
:*"''Something very minor is that the "series overview" collapsible tables at the bottom currently have the two newest entries outside the tables, but I would say they can be lumped in with the rest that are under the table''" == '''I can't say that I have strong opinions about this but I do prefer it as it is. It is a way for people to see what the latest content in the franchise is.'''
:*"''...but I probably wouldn't have divided up the volume links into as many pieces.''" == '''Teh Ping originally suggested this layout, so I went with that idea. This could change in the future but honestly I think that the Season 1 and 2 sections should be left as is.'''
:*"''For me personally, the back to contents links aren't as necessary since I just use the (browser's) back button on my mouse. But maybe others would use them.''" == '''I guess I could put less emphasis on the links then (like in the Parody and Short Stories Sections).'''
:*"''I would probably put all of the award years under a single collapsible table...''" == '''Maybe...In the short term I can add a toggle just like the ones for the novel sections that switches open and closed sections.'''
:*"''...my mouse cursor didn't switch to the 'link' version (a hand).''" == '''I can fix that.'''
'''So yeah, the feedback had some actionable insights. Thanks!'''--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 22:53, 10 December 2013 (CST)
 
Further edits have been made in light of Cthaeh's feedback.
*Master Toggle has been moved down
*Master Toggle for Awards Section created
*TOC links are now smaller
*Mouse changes to pointer (hand) when hovering above all toggles.
*Page looks much better in general now.
Still waiting on you Teh Ping--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 23:56, 10 December 2013 (CST)

Wow, I have no idea such things can be done on the wiki XD.

Actually, I wanted to break volumes 14-19 down into smaller parts, but because of the focus of 3 different protagonists, I decided not to (then again, it would be redundant to divide everything into such small parts when the aim of the collapsable tables are to prevent that). I felt that there should at least be seasons 1 and 2 since many new fans would probably have started from the anime, and would want to know where to continue after this.

Anyway, that is a solid job (okay, easily an understatement here) right there. I'm fine with the covers being placed on the main page, but for consistency sake, please continue to place the other covers on the main page.

Now back to TPのいない馬鹿ー月--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] ([[User talk:Teh Ping|talk]]) 08:57, 11 December 2013 (CST)

I really like the master Open/Close row.
If I may offer one more suggestion for conformity, a brief teaser of Volumes 1~22 before the start of the volumes, like the New Testament section.
--[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 18:00, 11 December 2013 (CST)

I have updated the page with the rest of the novel covers and changed the picture that is shown with the New testament teaser. I am not entirely sure as to what could be put in the teaser for Volumes 1~22 as I feel that it is already adequately covered in the story synopsis. At the very least, the vast majority of the renovations appear to be done. Now lets hope a new Toaru anime is announced in the coming year...10th anniversary on April 10 2014 after all.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 22:44, 11 December 2013 (CST)
 
:Updated the opening paragraph of the page with more current information. With this all of the renovations appear to be over... unless someone wants me to make a character introduction section. That would be hell...--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 04:20, 13 December 2013 (CST)

This is a little late given that the section is already under construction, but I dislike the idea of including a character introduction section. It goes back to my general preference for a simple things and keeping the project page smaller. I don't think character introduction information is necessary or directly relevant for reading the series; and it's starting to overlap with outside sources of information such as the TAMNI wikia. Obviously a few other projects have it, so there are people who like it, but that's my two cents. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 08:51, 14 December 2013 (CST)

I love the changes to the site, except when one tries using the android app from this site, BakaReader EX, none of the volumes or chapters show up to click on.--[[Special:Contributions/198.189.249.49|198.189.249.49]] 15:43, 14 December 2013 (CST)

Leaving the whole issue of the character introduction aside for now, I really enjoy using the BakaReader EX App as it is very convenient for reading light novels; so I was rather worried when the above comment mentioned that none of the volumes or chapters show up to click on. However, when I checked the app on my phone, and downloaded all chapters, everything still seems to be working. I have actually been double checking the app to see if my edits were screwing up the Index section. '''However, when I deleted a volume and tried to refresh to see if the volume would come back, it didn't.''' I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what is causing the problem but for that, I will need to test it. Please bare with me....--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 06:04, 15 December 2013 (CST)

Aaaaaand the problem has been identified. When I changed the layout of the page in order to have the ToC reflect the page's contents, I made the Headings of the Novels one level lower. Turns out, the app only registers novels if their Heading is Level 3 (if it is surrounded by 3 equals signs). We will have to sacrifice the look of the ToC in order to get the page working again on the app. I believe that the app holds more importance than the ToC. I will get to work on it straight away.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 06:16, 15 December 2013 (CST)

'''The ToC layout has been changed back to what it used to be in order to fix the problem occurring on the BakaReader EX App.''' Now all new volumes should be appearing as normal. Thanks alot to [[Special:Contributions/198.189.249.49|198.189.249.49]] for pointing it out as I would have missed it otherwise. For those of you not in the know, a problem occurred if attempting to refresha nd download a completely unlisted volume on the app. Any missing volumes wouldn't show up. The problem was directly caused by changing the ToC layout (it seems the layout is crucial for the functioning of the app). Thank God this was solved before the release of Volume NT9; I would have been extremely pissed off if the problem came to light during that time.
:...And with that finally solved, I am making a '''character's introduction section''' (similar to Oda Nobuna and DxD) on my user page as a trial. Cthaeh's comment regarding the intro has slightly disheartened me in continuing but '''perhaps other people have a different view on it'''. Veteran readers shouldn't really care: it will be in an already-collapsed table upon load. So you don't have to read or view it. I have been creating it in a way that doesn't have any spoilers or reveal any of the important plot but you can judge that for yourself. Again, it is mostly for newer readers to get interested in the series, just like the novel covers. If you are curious as to how it looks, check my user page to see how it is coming along. Perhaps you could even give me suggestions for the character descriptions...I am struggling with those...--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 06:52, 15 December 2013 (CST)

Sorry, my earlier comment was hastily written, didn't really say what I intended, and came out pretty negative as a result. The bulk of my opinion would be better represented as "more trouble than it's worth". There are a lot of characters in Index, so it's a lot of work. The fact that you've already started likely means you likely think it's worth the trouble. I have a minimalist opinion in general, so that affects in my personal opinion on character sections, but I'm probably in the minority. As you said, it really doesn't affect the long time readers that much. If you really did want feedback for casual/new readers, they probably don't look at discussion pages; the place with the highest number of casual readers is likely the facebook page. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 12:00, 15 December 2013 (CST)

I'm gonna be blunt when I say I frankly don't want to see character introductions on the project page. I don't honestly like the format of the Highschool DxD project page. I think we're at the point now where we should slow down on the edits. I really liked how the Index page looked prior to adding the collapsing tables. At this point I think the expansion of the page is reaching overly zealous.--[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 14:06, 15 December 2013 (CST)

And with that, I am outnumbered in opinion regarding the character's section. I think Skies makes a fair point. The page has changed quite a bit in look since I have started editing; with collapsing tables and novel covers etc. I will play it safe and end this editing process this time around. The original goals of the edits were to compact the page's length and make the page a bit more appealing to newer readers. I think those goals have been accomplished and adding a new section would be overkill. I will still make the character's section in private but with no actual intention of using it in the short term. Perhaps if because of a new anime, Index's light novel popularity becomes red hot again and new readers will visit the page, then I can reconsider the proposal then. But such a time would happen, at least a year from now... I guess now I can finally go back to my original task then.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 16:58, 15 December 2013 (CST)
</div>

This is not really an update but more of a summary of the recent changes that have been made to the Index Main Page. Previous feedback and conversations have been collapsed.
:*'''Modified opening paragraph to better reflect the current standing of the series in regards to franchise material and recent awards. Extra information has been hidden in a collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)'''
:*Greatly expanded Awards section with past and recent Kono LN ga Sugoi! Rankings
:*'''Placed Awards for different years in collapsed-on-load tables with clickable custom toggles to open/close years. (Page Space Saved)'''
:*Placed great portion of the list of updates into a collapsed-on-load table with clickable custom toggles titled 'Older Updates.' <strike>Due to compatability isses with the Firefox Browser, the Updates Section Collapsing table itself shouldn't be placed in div tags.</strike>Update: Section is now placed in div tags after site was updated--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 20:10, 14 January 2014 (CST)
:*'''Split the novel sections into different sub-sections with First Series headings suggested by Teh Ping. Each sub-section is a collapsible table with clickable custom toggles. (Page Space Saved when collapsed)'''
:*Novel Sections collapsible tables are open-on-load due to some readers using the Table of Contents (ToC) to navigate. ToC links do not work unless collapsible table is open.
:*'''ToC does NOT reflect the new subsections as a formatting issue leads to the BakaReader EX App not functioning properly for the Index novels. Problems that occurred when this was being tested should not be happening anymore.'''Small Update: BakaReader EX seems to have updated the App to handle the previous layout of the ToC. But I am fine with things as they are right now.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 19:28, 25 December 2013 (CST)
:*Created and added a Master toggle that shows which sections are open/closed and allows for quick collapsing of the novel sections.
:*'''Added light novel cover illustrations opposite novel content, similar to other Baka-Tsuki Pages.'''
:*Added small 'Back to Contents' links throughout page for those that want them.
:*'''Changed image next to New Testament intro description. (Page Space Saved)'''
:*Place Inactive translators into collapsed-on-load table. (Page Space Saved)
:*'''Place Editors in side by side wikitables (Page Space Saved)'''
:*Placed Series Overview section in Collapsed-on-Load Tables with clickable custom toggles. Novels that have not been completely translated stay outside of the tables. (Page Space Saved)
A character's introduction section idea was thrown out there by me. However, considering the large amount of changes already made to the page in the last month, the idea was quickly withdrawn from this set of edits. The idea may be put out there again when a new anime for the Index franchise is announced; however there is currently no timeframe for this. For those still interested in what a theoretical character introduction section for Toaru Majutsu no Index would look like, head to my user page. It is currently still in beta stage. The above edits have been okayed by supervisor Teh Ping. '''As of now, the renovation period is over.''' ''Toaru Kagaku no Accelerator begins in the next issue of Dengeki Daioh; NT Volume 9 is released on January 10; Funimation has announced Index II and Movie; the 10th Anniversary of the entire franchise will be on April 10th, 2014.'' --[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 22:56, 18 December 2013 (CST)
 

== Volume 11 Notes ==

Now, not to be rude to Teh_ping or anything since he did so much of the translation work on this series, but volume 11 has several notes on Christianity. I question why these are in the text. I mean at most I would expect them to be translator notes at the bottom, though I wonder if they even belong there as they're notes on well, the bible, rather than anything in the series.

(Teh_ping: For your information, he wasn’t. He was one of the Seventy, not Twelve)

(Teh_ping: for more information, read Genesis 18:16 to 19:29)

(Teh_ping: In Sodom)

(Teh_ping: She got turned into a pillar of salt)

(Teh_ping: Nope, Jesus here did carry the Cross up the hill himself.)

--[[User:Kaloo|Kaloo]] ([[User talk:Kaloo|talk]]) 20:23, 31 December 2013 (CST)

They should be translation notes at the bottom. If anything, editors just haven't gotten around to fixing this volume (in fact, many of the middle volumes haven't seen any real edits in quite a while). As for the fact they're notes on Christianity, it's best to include them. What may or may not be common knowledge doesn't necessarily hold true for people in other parts of the world.
--[[User:Skies|Skies]] ([[User talk:Skies|talk]]) 03:14, 1 January 2014 (CST)

On this topic, according the synoptic gospel, weren't there someone named Simon of Cyrene who actually helped Jesus carried the cross to the calvary?--[[Special:Contributions/139.228.6.168|139.228.6.168]] 00:59, 10 February 2014 (CST)

== Early Volumes Translation Fixing ==

As has already been said on my user page, I have begun making edits to Volume 1 as part of a greater project to fix the translations for the Season 1 and 2 light novels. The edits are being made with direct consultation with the series' translator js06. Volumes 1 and 2 will serve as the basis for all critique on my edits. Once everyone is satisifed with the way things look, I will proceed onwards from there. Any feedback regarding the edits should go on my talk page in the relevant section. I only ask editors to wait until I finish a whole volume (volume 1) before giving feedback.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 19:38, 6 January 2014 (CST)
 '''Volume 1 Edits are complete. Any feedback should go to my talk page.--[[User:OH&S|OH&S]] ([[User talk:OH&S|talk]]) 03:10, 8 January 2014 (CST)
'''

== PDF files not updated ==

I know there is a generate PDF function, but I don't like the layout it created so I prefer user made ones. But why hasn't anyone updated the files, particularly the old ones ? There are still mistakes from the previous version on Baka-tsuki that have been fixed in the HMTL files, but not in the PDF. [[Special:Contributions/42.112.3.98|42.112.3.98]] 10:09, 18 February 2014 (CST)

What mistakes are you talking about? The last modified date of the PDFs was about two and a half weeks ago. There are only nine or so edits that have happened since. -[[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]] ([[User talk:Ultranova17|talk]]) 11:43, 18 February 2014 (CST)

My bad. I forgot that the naming issues will be resolved only when OH&S starts his fixing, and when I saw the duplicate paragraph in the afterword of vol. 4, my mind just grouped them together. That duplicate is the only mistake I remember, and if you still keep updating the files, then there's no prob then. And also thank you for your work [[User:Ultranova17|Ultranova17]], I really appreciate it. [[Special:Contributions/42.112.3.98|42.112.3.98]] 05:45, 19 February 2014 (CST)

Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index

2014-02-18T16:09:57Z

42.112.3.98: /* PDF files not updated */ new section

Sword Art Online:Caliber SS

2013-10-23T17:12:36Z

42.112.3.98: Fix typo

== Translator's Note: ==
The Caliber SS is an alternate end to the Caliber story found in Volume 8. It takes part after Part 3 and follows a "What if Klein didn't save Freyja" scenario. In order to fully enjoy the chapter, it is recommended that one finish reading the normal end first (the entire Caliber story line).

The first half of this chapter is almost entirely the same as the first half of Part 4 (with minor changes such as removing all references to Freyja) and was translated by [[User:BeginnerXP|BeginnerXP]]. The story diverges about halfway through, in the middle of the battle with Þrym. To make it easier to navigate, I broke the chapter into sections, the third section being where the story path diverges.

'''Note:''' Here SS means 少し失敗 (sukoshi shippai) which translates to Slight Failure. However since there are no synonyms for failure starting with the letter S, therefore the title has been left the same as it was in the original.

== Caliber SS ==
=== Part 1 ===

The katana user finished off the black Minotaur evil-god by stabbing it with his special skill, as if releasing the grudges he had kept up to this moment. Not paying any attention to the drop items on the spot the enemy avatar had burst apart, he turned around and yelled,

"Oi Kiritard! What did ya do just now!?"

That question obviously referred to my usage of one-handed sword skills while equipped with two swords, and explaining in detail would be very troublesome, so I obeyed my inner thoughts and said while giving my most troubled face,

"......Do I have to say it?"

"'Course! After seeing something like that!"

It seemed I had pressed Klein's curiosity button, and since it was unavoidable, I answered briefly,

"It was a skill outside the system, «Skill Connect»."

Oo―, was the sound which flowed out of Liz, Silica, and Sinon mouth; suddenly Asuna pressed her fingertips to her right temple and growled,

"Um......somehow, I got a strong feeling of Déjà vu......"


"It's just your imagination."

I shrugged my shoulders and clapped my hand on our healer-sama's back, whom despite her support duty in the back row, had sneaked in during the battle with the gold Minotaur to deliver the killing blow.

"This is not the time for relaxed talk. Lyfa, how much time do we have left?"

"Ah, right."

After sheathing her long sword in its scabbard behind her waist, Lyfa held up the medallion hanging from her neck. From a few steps away, I could see that the light within the jewel was almost completely lost.

"......At the current pace, we still have an hour or two."

"I see. ――Yui, this dungeon structure has four floors right?"

I continued asking, so the little fairy sitting on my head the whole time responded clearly,

"Yes, the third floor is around seventy percent of the second floor size, the forth floor should be mostly the boss room."

"Thank you."

Stretching my right hand, my fingertips stroked my hair while I quickly considered the situation.

At this moment, in the Jötunheimr field far below us, the players accepting the «Frost Giant Tribe» side's quest and the hunting of the beast type evil-gods had gained momentum. The number of quest participants would only increase and not decrease. The remaining time was estimated to be around an hour. The battle with the last boss ―― probably «King Þrym» himself ―― should take about thirty minutes, we wouldn't be able to move to the third and forth floor within thirty minutes.


If there were a little more time, we could explain the situation to the players on the field, asking for their assistance in revoking the ongoing quest, but at this moment we didn't have enough time to go back to the ground. The other alternative was to message the fairy lord requesting reinforcements, but organizing a force in the capital city beyond the mountain range, moving it to the Aarun plateau, and reaching Jötunheimr from the dungeon stairs, by the time they did them the sun would have set.

In other words, with just seven people, we were in a hopeless situation. ―― Or rather, factoring in the failure of «Queen Urðr»'side quest from the Cardinal's automatic quest generator function, Þrymheimr castle would surface on Alfheim, and trigger the start of a large-scale campaign quest «Ragnarök». The fault was obviously the character who inherited its function from its creator.

Anyway――

"......In that case, I don't care if it's the king of the evil-gods or not, we will just «Smash» him for good!"

Lisbeth said that with a slap on my back, the rest of them altogether went "Oo!" in agreement. Where did they get that recklessness from? While thinking that, I strongly nodded.

"――Alright, everyone's HP and MP have fully recovered right? Then let's clean up the third floor quickly!"

The combined voice echoed once more, seven people then kicked the floor, and started running, aiming for the boss' room on the lowest floor, which was visible through the ice.



Just as Yui said, the third floor was clearly narrower than the second floor. It was natural for the lower parts of an upside down pyramid, but this place was quite a narrow and also had a complicated passage. For a normal clearing, we would be confused by the gimmick of the paths, but we had, enshrined on my head, the Navigation Pixie-sama which could give the latest model of an intelligent car navigation system a run for its money.

Our trump card accessed the map data, and with her instructions, we could run through the winding passage at full speed. Even the gimmick puzzles using levers, gears, or stepping switches were cleared without any time used to solve them. If this affair were to be observed from the outside, there would be no mistake for them to think that we were doing a time attack for the fastest clearing.

We ran into the sub-boss twice, but we still reached the boss room of the third floor in only eighteen minutes. What awaited us there had twice the size of the Cyclops and Minotaur from the previous floors, both sides of its long lower body had ten pairs of centipede-like feet, it was clearly the creepy evil giant, but it didn't have much physical resistance. Of course its attack power was through the roof, so the HP gauge belonging to Klein and me were in the red so many times after being targeted by it. This battle, which made my stomach sore later, when I thought that either of us dying would lead to a wipe, went on for nine minutes.


During that time; Liz, Silica, Sinon, and Pina tried their best to cut down the giant's feet one by one, I then finished it off with the «Skill Connect» which included multiple sword skills once it was unable to move. With our high spirits, we rushed into the fourth floor to beat King Þrym and his Niflheimr. Once we stepped into the passage leading to the boss room, we stopped, as in front of our eyes ―― a scene came into view.

It was a cage made of elongated icicles on the wall's edge.

Behind the fence caused by the stalactite growing sharply from both the ground and the ceiling, was a single figure. It was not of a giant's size. As it had collapsed on the ground, its accurate size was difficult to tell, but its body should be about the same height as the Undine Asuna's.

The skin was as white as the powdery snow lying thick around. The long flowing hair was a deep brown gold. The volume of the chest covered by the clothing that could be seen from her sorry state, it would be best not to say this out loud, as it could easily overwhelm all of our girl members. Both her hands and feet were shackled in the rugged ice.

The unexpected scene caused us to halt and feel worried, then the captive girl's shoulders made a sudden but subtle shake, as she lifted her face, with the blue chains ringing.

Her pupils were also of the same tea gold, like her hair. Her face, if it was a player avatar, would surely be because of overwhelming luck when it was created, or the account was bought with the large sum of money. However, her face was sublimed with the western European beauty, which was quite rare in this game.


Blinking once, her long eyelashes moved down then up, the girl said in a fine voice,

"Please...... Help me......out of here......"

The katana user was sucked aimlessly toward the ice cage, I grabbed and pulled the bandana tail which dangled from behind his head.

"It's a trap."

"Trap."

"That's a trap."

The last two were Sinon's and Liz's words.

Klein straightened his back and turned around, as he made a subtle expression while scratching his head.

"O-Oh......It's a trap. ......A trap, right?"

For the katana user on his death bed's sake, I asked in a small voice, "Yui?". The pixie on my head promptly replied,

"It's an NPC. Just like Urðr-san, there is connection to the language engine module. ――But, there is one difference. This person has the HP gauge enabled."

Normally, the HP gauge of the quest giving NPCs would be disabled to prevent them from taking damage. The exceptions were, when the NPC was the escort quest's objective, or the NPC was actually――


"A trap."

"It's a trap."

"I think it's a trap."

Asuna, Silica, and Lyfa said at the same time.

His eyebrows made a 八 shape, his eyes widened, and his mouth was pursed; I patted Klein's shoulder who was stiff in those complex expressions and quickly said,

"Of course it could be possible that it isn't a trap, but now we don't have time for trial and error. We need to reach Þrym's place as early as possible, even if it is a second sooner."

"O......Oo, hmm, well, that's right, yeah."

Klein nodded slightly and moved his glance from the ice cage.

When we ran until just a few steps before reaching the stairs, the voice came again from behind,

"......Please...... anybody............"

――To be honest, I also had the urge to help her, as I didn't think that NPCs were merely the system's automatically generated moving objects, but dwellers living in this world. If this was in a normal quest progression, helping that girl, accompanying her, and as the story progressed until the end, hearing her laugh from behind, "Uhahahaha, you fool―", would still be amusing. However, we were not in the situation to take that unnecessary risk now.

=== Part 2 ===

The width of the descending stairs increased as we went down, and the decorative objects on the surrounding pillars and statues became more gorgeous at the same time. The «approaching boss room and resulting map data would be larger» tradition from Aincrad was also present here.

Standing at the end of the path were two wolves carved into the massive ice gate. So this was the throne room of King Þrym. About 10 meters away from the gate, I cautioned everyone to slow down, as I turned to gaze at the medallion Lyfa was wearing. The delicate light orbs which once adorned the medallion were now 90% tainted black. We probably only had around 30 minutes left.

I took a deep breath, and said:

“Based on the dungeon design, the BOSS should be behind those doors. This BOSS will be harder than the previous ones, we'll need to do everything we can to defeat him. Before engaging, we'll first identify his attack pattern and focus on defense. I'll give the signal to counterattack. When the BOSS's HP bar drops to yellow or red, his attack patterns will likely change again, so please be careful everyone.

I nodded and looked at the face of my companions, before adding:

“— This is the last battle, let's give it all we have!!”

“Yeah!”

This was the third cheer we had given since the start of this quest. Even Yui who was sitting on my head and Pina who was perched on Silica's shoulders cheered.

The gate began opening to both sides automatically once we were about five meters away. The cold air, along with a difficult to explain pressure, came from within. Asuna began re-applying supporting magics, and after confirming the numbers of buff icons below our HP/MP gauges, everyone made eye contact. We all nodded and rushed in at once.

The interior was an extraordinarily huge space in both horizontal and vertical directions. The wall and floor were blue ice, like the rest of the dungeon. The purple fire swayed eerily on the ice candles. High up on the ceiling were chandeliers of the same color, lined up. But what grabbed our attention was the dazzling reflection from the left and right wall lined along the interior.

Gold. Gold coins and ornaments, swords, armors, shields, sculptures and furniture, all kinds of golden objects were piled up to a scale where it was impossible to count. As the insides of the room sank into darkness, the full extent of the treasure was entirely unfathomable.

"............How much Yurudo are all these worth......?"

Inside the room; Lisbeth, the only person who managed a player shop here murmured in a trance. “I should have emptied my inventory!” I thought, but I never mentioned this to anyone.

On the right side of the party, Klein slowly made his way towards the treasure mountain, as if motivated by his bushidō way of life. However, as he approached the treasure――

"...... A bug flew in."

The low frequency mutter could be heard from the dark open space deep within the room, causing the floor to tremble.

"I hear an annoying buzz. Where is it? I'll crush the bad bug."

Boom, the floor trembled. Boom, boom, the trembles approached, it sounded as if it were so heavy that it might break the ice floor.

Once it reached the lighting range, a human shape appeared.

Giant ―― wouldn't be a suitable word. The humanoid evil-god was huge even compared to the bosses we fought in this castle so far. Its height must be at least fifteen meters. Even if I jumped with full force, I wouldn't be able to reach the knee of those giant tree trunk sized legs.

Its skin color was dull blue, like lead. Dark brown fur coiled around its arms and legs, and I wondered what kind of large animal the fur came from. A single part of the plate armor on its waist had the size of a small boat. While the upper part of the body was bare, the prosperous muscle looked as if it was able to repel any weapons directed at it.

Its muscular chest had its blue beard hung over it. Its head above it sank into a silhouette and we could only see its outline. However, the gold crown on its forehead and the blue and bleak blinking eyes below shone brightly in the dark.

In the old Aincrad, the system limit of the floor height was a hundred meters, the boss room inside the labyrinth zone was also under the same rule, it was unavoidable for all boss monsters to have vertical size in moderation. So up until now, I had no experience in fighting with an enemy which I had to look up to. As I couldn't fly, how could I fight like this? The best I could do was cutting no higher than its shins.

While I was thinking about various things, the gigantic giant ―― the double expressions are necessary to describe its size ―― took another step closer, and laughed like a gong being hit,

"Hu, hu...... the Alfheim bugs? Creeping into this place under Urðr's seduction? How about this, you small fry. Just tell me where that woman is hiding, and you can take the gold in this room with you, hmm?"

With the enormous body and the crown on its forehead, along with the speech just now, this guy was the «Frost Giant King Þrym», no doubt about it.

It was Klein who faced and replied to the great giant, who was an AI like Urðr.

"......Heh, a warrior just needs to eat, sleep, and laugh! Don't bother trying to tame us with a cheap invitation like that!"

While we made subtle expressions of relief from behind, as in front of us, Klein pulled his beloved katana from its scabbard.

With that signal, the rest of us took out our weapons as well.

They might not be legendary class equipment, but all of them either carried the name of ancient class weapons, or were carved to a satisfactory level by the master smith Lisbeth. However, the daring smile under the long moustache of the Giant King Þrym didn't fade due to the light from our weapons. Maybe it was natural, as our weapons to him were just slightly longer than toothpicks to him anyway.

The shining phosphorescence from the dark eye sockets glared at us from a very high place, the glance stopped at the eight person who stood there unarmed.

"......Ho, ho. I hear the buzzing of wings again. Very well then, I shall crush you beneath my feet, treat it as my gift, being turned into part of Jötunheimr!”

Thump, the giant king suddenly stepped forward, its large HP gauge appeared on the upper right of my field of vision. Moreover, it was stacked three layers. Cutting that off would be very troublesome.

As the HP gauge of those evil floor bosses in the new Aincrad were invisible in order to frustrate the player's mind, compared to those bosses, this battle's pace would be much easier to grasp.

"――Here it comes! Listen to Yui's instructions and focus on avoiding at the start!"

Immediately after my shout, Þrym raised his huge rock-like right fist high up near the ceiling ―― a blue frost storm wrapped its fist, then furiously swung down.

The last battle in Þrymheimr castle ―― but probably ―― was as expected, a large and fierce battle I had never experienced.

The King Þrym's early attack patterns were punches from both fists, three continuous stomping using the right foot, an ice breath in a straight line, and summoning twelve ice Dwarf minions from the ground.

The creation of the Dwarves was the most troublesome, but they were swiftly taken care of from the back of the party by Sinon's bow, cleaning them up in the blink of an eye by piercing their weak points with marvelous accuracy. The rest of the attacks were avoidable after observing its timing once, the counts from Yui also helped the three front row attackers in avoiding direct hits.

Once the defense was in place, it was finally the time to attack, however, this was certainly the hardest part. As I had feared, our swords could only reach Þrym's shins, and the thick fur protecting that area had high physical resistance, like the gold Minotaur. I took a small chance to attack it with a three hit sword skill, risking my HP to do so, but a low delay skill also had low attribute damage. The result was an unpleasant response, like hitting an indestructible object.

We fought hard in the battle for ten minutes before the first HP gauge finally depleted, causing the giant king to make an overpowered roar.

"Pattern changed! Be careful!"

As I shouted, Lyfa who was next to me said in a nervous voice,

"This is bad, Onii-chan. Only two lights remain in the medallion. We only have about ten minutes left." 

"............"

Þrym had three HP gauges. However, we took more than ten minutes to deplete one gauge. It could be said that cutting the remaining two gauges within ten minutes would be very difficult.

But, for this opponent, the «Skill Connect» wouldn't work like it did when we were fighting the gold Minotaur. During monster delay ―― or to say the delay occurring after its attack, «striking the weak point to create heavy concentrated damage» was needed. However, Þrym was weak to neither sword nor magic, so even if the sword skill connected four times, it wouldn't be able to make much change to that amount of HP.

As if seeing the moment of my impatience――

Þrym suddenly inhaled a large amount of the air, inflating his chest like a bellows.

An overpowering wind occurred, sucking in the five people in the front and mid rows. It's bad, this is surely the harbinger of a full force wide area of effect attack. For evading, first of all, the sucking power of the wind magic must be neutralized. While I was thinking this, to my left, Lyfa started reciting a spell.

But, there was probably not enough time once I noticed the enemy motion.

"Lyfa, everyone, take defense!"

At my call, Lyfa suspended the spell, crossed her arms in front and bent her body. All members took the same posture, in that moment,

From Þrym's mouth, which had sent out a breath in a straight line many times up until this point, released a wide conal diamond dust.

The shining pale wind wrapped around us. The cold which penetrated Asuna's buff made it feel like our skin was being torn off. Gin, gin, with a sharp sound, the avatars of five people froze at once. I tried to escape, but the thick shell of the ice completely locked my movements. Lyfa, Klein, Liz, Silica with Pina being hugged tightly to her chest, and I turned into blue ice sculptures.

At the moment, our HP gauge still haven't decreased. But we couldn't feel at ease. As this kind of special skill would increase the damage taken in direct proportion to the time being suspended.

Þrym approached, then lifted up his massive right leg. Bad, pinch, danger. ―― as I screamed in my mind, at almost the same time,

"Nuuu―!"

With a thick roar, Þrym stomped furiously on the floor. The violent shock wave from it swallowed us while we were still frozen――

Gaching! the frightening sound of breaking echoed throughout the hall, those of us covered in ice shattered. My eyes went dark due to shock. My body slammed hard on the floor while the damage effect light continued on.

At the edge of my vision, the top five of seven HP gauges suddenly turned to a deep red.

While the five vanguards got caught in Þrym's large-scaled ranged attack, of course the two people in the back row weren't just watching.

Our HP gauges were taken by nearly eighty percent when suddenly, a soft blue light rained down on us, healing our wounds. It was Asuna's high ranked full recovery spell. The timing was perfect, which would be impossible to achieve without anticipating the occurrence of the damage and pre-casting the spell in advance.

However, in this game's large-scaled recovery magics, most of them were of the «Heal over Time» type, which didn't recovery all the lost HP instantly. So it'd be fatal if we were attacked again while our HP was still recovering.

Þrym stepped forward in order to deliver the final blow to us who finally stood up. The long beard that hung over its throat ―― was suddenly pierced by a rapid succession of fire arrows blazing bright red, causing a big explosion. It was Sinon's two-handed long bow sword skill «Explode Arrow». With ten percent physical, and ninety percent flame damage property striking the frost giant tribe's weak point, his HP gauge clearly decreased.

"Munuuuun!"

Þrym raised an angry voice and changed his direction to target Sinon. Flashy attacks on the enemy's weak point from the back row's damage dealers caused a massive amount of hate, taking over the hate of the vanguards, resulting in the enemy switching targets. It was a mistake beginners always did, but of course, this wasn't the case this time. Sinon acted as a decoy, knowing it would likely lead to her death, to buy us time for recovery.

"Sinon, give me thirty seconds!"

While shouting, I gulped down a recovery potion from my pouch. Next to me, the others also poured similar red liquids down their mouths. Pina, Silica's partner, seemed to have narrowly survived because of its master's guard skill. In this world, unlike Aincrad, there was a pet resurrection spell, but taking time to do so during a battle would be very difficult.

My vision switched between the irritatingly slowly increasing HP gauge, and the blue Cait Sith's continuing to avoid Þrym's fierce attacks. Even though Sinon had come to ALO not long ago, her body control was spectacular. In GGO, as a sniper who forfeited all defensive skills, running away was the only way if an attacker type approached, that experience was probably still with her now.

"......Prepare the attack."

Removing my eyes off the HP gauge, which had finally came back up to eighty percent, I called my companions. Re-gripping both of my swords, I began to start counting, in that instant――

=== Part 3 ===

“Onii-chan!”

Lyfa's trembling voice vibrated from my side.

“It's too late... The lights in the medallion, are gone...”

“What...?”

I held my breath and turned towards the large jewel on her chest. The jewel that seemed to be made of intricate carvings was almost completely black, save a small shred of light that remained near the bottom. Even as I spoke, it was gradually turning black.

That was to say, beneath the Ice Castle Þrymheimr, on the frozen fields of Jötunheimr, the beast-type evil gods, Tonkii and Urðr's brethren, were close to being completely slaughtered. In other words, we who had accepted the quest "Urðr's request" had failed, and the hundreds of players who took Þrym's quest had succeeded—

Even though my brain registered this fact, I couldn't accept it no matter what, as I stood there with my mouth wide open. From the looks on their faces, everyone felt the same too. Even so, I managed to pull myself together, and prepared to yell at Sinon, who was dodging Þrym's fierce attacks alone far away from the party, to retreat. However——

<nowiki>*</nowiki>DUUUN!* A huge shockwave shook the earth, and the wide floorboards started to vibrate.

I lost my balance and fell to the floor. Far away, Sinon slipped too, and Þrym raised his ice-covered right fist to smite her delicate body.

However, Þrym's movements seemed to have slowed down. Then, two things happened at once. First, Þrym's HP bar which had more than 60% HP remaining disappeared. Next, a string of red text messages flashed across my sight: “QUEST FAILED”.

“Uwa... Uwahahaha...”

Slowly lowering his fists, the king of Giants laughed out loud.

“Uwahahahaha...... I can feel it... I can feel it! The one who has constantly been opposing me and my brethren, that hateful woman's aura is finally gone! Wahahaha......”

Once again, the frozen ground—— No, the entire castle started to vibrate. The blue flames on the wall suddenly flared up, as if coming to life. The gleam in Þrym's eyes seemed to be magnified tenfold.

The five vanguards finally found the energy to stand and reunite with Asuna and Sinon. However, their faces no longer held that determined look they usually had. Ignoring the pitiful ones on the ground who had to spread their legs to even stand straight, Þrym let out a loud roar:

“Now! Now is the time my long-awaited wish will finally be fulfilled! Come forth... My brethren!”

His brethren? Who?

Just as I was lost in thought, huge crashes echoed throughout the throne room.

<nowiki>*</nowiki>CRASH!*

The mountain of treasure that was previously stacked high suddenly expanded, before crashing down towards the floor. And emerging from within were ——even though they weren't as tall as Þrym—— giants, with sick blue skin and sporting matching blue beards. These were undoubtedly Þrym's minions... The frost giants.

There were more than 30 of them. Creating miniature earthquakes as they walked, the lined up in a row at the center of the room, and placed one of their arms on their chests. They looked like statues from afar.

Seeing this scene full of muscle-bound males, most of us forgot about our failed quest and just stood there in shock. Even Yui, who was sitting on my head, didn't respond.

Again ignoring the fairies on the ground, Þrym lifted his head sternly, planted his left hand on his waist, and lifted his right fist high. Everyone else looked at the direction he pointed - the huge crystal chandelier.

No, that wasn't it. He was pointing to something beyond the chandelier, after penetrating the castle and the crust, the place he pointed to was——

Our kingdom, The Fairy Kingdom Alfheim.

My suspicions were affirmed as that large bearded mouth started moving.

"Let us go! With our breaths let us bury that kingdom blessed by Yggdrasil in a sheet of ice!!"

"ROAR!!!"

<nowiki>*</nowiki>DUM*, *DUM DUM*. The thirty giants and Þrym marched, the vibrations throwing us off our feet.

"Þrymheimr —— ATTACK!!"

<nowiki>*</nowiki>GOWAAAAAAAN!!* A huge shockwave vibrated throughout the castle. I tried to stabilize myself before realizing I had been put into some sort of Gravity Bind - a huge force was being applied to me from above. No, that wasn't it — I was being suppressed by the force of the floor — the castle moving upwards.

A huge crashed emanated from the castle's four walls, the loudest sound I had heard so far in ALO. This was undoubtedly the sound of the castle breaking through the boundary between Jötunheimr and Alfheim. Þrym's plan which Urðr spoke of, "To forever encase Alfheim in snow and make his way up Yggdrasil" had apparently been put into motion.

"...... What's going to happen... next......"

Hugging her war hammer near her chest, Lisbeth asked. Of course, no one had an answer. The only one who knew would probably be the "Cardinal System" who created this quest. No, maybe it could be said that this world had been devoured by darkness to the point that not even gods could tell what would happen next.

The castle had been rising for about three minutes now. In the meantime, Þrym stood with his fist pointed towards the distance, like some warped representation of a legendary hero. The rest of the giants were going "OOR, OOAR!!" non-stop, while stamping their feet in unison.

Soon, there came the final, loudest crash yet, and the castle, as well as the giants, went silent.

I noticed that the throne, which had been dark until now, suddenly lit up. I watched as light trickled in from the north wall, like rays of gold. It was Sunlight, something the underground world of Jötunheimr shouldn't posses — the radiance of the sun.

Þrym slowly retraced his right fist, coming into contact with sunlight briefly. His face contorted in displeasure, as he tightened his fists. A low sounds escaped his throat, unlike anything an NPC usually produced. It seemed as if he was speaking to himself.

"... Look out, Æsir... I will reach the top of the world tree and overthrow Midgard, before taking over Asgard which all of you are cowardly hiding, and crush everything under my feet..."

Lifting his right leg, he stomped his feet, as if trampling someone who wasn't there. Then, as if suddenly remembering our existence, the king of giants turned his blueish white eyes towards us and said, with a smile.

"......Shouldn't you thank me, insects? Hurr~?"

"W-Why should we thank you, you bastard?"

Klein shouted, his red hair shot upright. Þrym looked at him in amusement and said while smiling:

"Uwahaha, because I saved you the time to travel back here from Jötunheimr! Look around you and behold my castle's true form."

The king of giants, snapped his fingers *SNAP!*, and—

Suddenly, the floor we had been standing on slid open, revealing a huge gaping hole.

"Waah!?"

I shouted in surprise, and the wings on my back started flapping instinctively. However, even though the castle was no longer in Jötunheimr, I still couldn't fly. Just like that, the seven fairies plus one more (Yui) plus a dragon (Pina) fell into the newly formed hole. To be exact, only Silica's pet dragon was capable of flight, but because her owner was gripping her so tightly in front of her chest, she wasn't able to do anything.

"AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!"

The loudest scream was made by Asuna, who had a fear of falling from great heights. Lisbeth and Silica also made similar screams, while the cold Sinon actually shrugged and shook her head in midair. Even the speed freak Lyfa didn't scream "YAHOO" and instead clutched my left shoulder tightly.

"I'LL GET YOU FOR THIS YOU OLD GEEZER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!"

Klein's curse trailed into a long scream, as the seven of us fell right down the hole.

Thinking back about it, Þrym has no reason to spare our lives back there, instead of dealing the finishing blow. Though one could probably argue that falling from such heights would lead to our deaths anyway. Just as I was thinking to use magic like 'Feather Fall', the darkness in front of me began to curve, before finally becoming an icy slope. With our behinds planted on the icy surface, we had no choice but to slide down the frozen ramp. Before long, a white light appeared in front of us, and quickly began expanding. At the same time, there was a change in the air——

"...... We're gonna fly! Get your wings ready!"

I shouted out, just before the entire party plunged into the void.

I spread my shoulders and commanded my wings to fly. This time, a very reliable flapping could be heard, and a propelling force wrapped around my body. Gently picking up Yui who was perched on my head with my right hand, I placed her in my front shirt pocket, and began flying upwards. I looked to my left and right, and soon everyone noticed me.

The scenery before me that was tinted with white slowly regained its original palette. Right in front of me was a blue sky above green field, and numerous white mountains. This was, without a doubt, The Valey of Aarun, located in central Alfheim.

From the looks of the earth, it seemed as if the castle was heading south of the valley. That is to say, the great World Tree should be behind me, along with the town of Aarun which rested near one of its roots.

However, I hesitated to look back. What had happened to the beautiful scenery of Aarun, this was something I was afraid to find out. That said, I couldn't continue flying straight either, or I would end up in Salamander territory. I decelerated and gradually came to a halt, hovering in midair.

Taking a deep breath, I turned around.

"...Oh... Ohhh......"

The stiffled cry came from Lyfa, who was to my right. It was followed by the surprised cries of the other six people.

The Central City Aarun, the capital of Alfheim which was bustling with life throughout the year —— no longer existed.

The world tree, even though it looked as grand as always, had something lodged near its roots. Numerous roots had been upturned, and just a few hours ago, a lively stonework city was supposed to be there. The stones that Aarun were built on were now scattered all over, like a mountain of rubble.

Taking its place was a huge, eight-sided crystalline object that reflected off all the sun's rays.

This was without a doubt the castle Þrymheimr. However, when observed from Jötunheimr, it was the shape of an inverted triangle. That was to say, what we had previously seen was only the bottom half of the castle. Perched on top of the inverted pyramid was another similar pyramid, and it was its sharp tip that had pierced through the earth's crust.

The queen of the lake Urðr had used her powers to keep Þrymheimr sealed, but as her kind perished, so did her power. The castle had then broke free of its chains and revealed its true form. It was about 300 meters wide, and the height from the tip to the base was approximately 300 times √2, around 424 meters. Only about one tenth had pierced through the rubble, the tip pushing upwards lunging greedily for the world tree's core. The world tree still held strong with its remaining 10 or so roots, but even then it seemed it would eventually fall.

I exhaled and glanced away from Þrymheimr, surveying my surroundings.

The original inhabitants of Aarun were scattered around the valleys. Looking like ruin excavators, countless players stood there transfixed, their gaze upon the ice castle which had caused the city's ruin. If a player was running a shop in Aarun or simply taking a rest in their own house, the sudden emergence of a huge block of ice that laid waste to the entire city would certainly be quite a surprise. Because the city was a designated safe zone, none of the players had their HP reduced, though after going through such a shock it wouldn't be a surprise if their lives were shortened in the real world.

A group of players were pointing at the ice castle, their mouths moving nonstop. Because fairies had enhanced hearing, I could faintly pick up what they were saying.

"...This kinda event is too much no? Even my house is gone..."

"That's right, and not even a word of warning! It's still quite some time away to the annual end of year event too..."

"The appearance of Aincrad wasn't announced either, but this is beyond what you'd call a surprise event I think..."

Even though they hadn't fully recovered from shock, but their emotions should be turning to rage soon enough. Just like the conversation I had heard early, the entire streets of Aarun——

"...Players who had houses in Aarun or item storages, what's going to happen to them?"

Lisbeth, who was to my left, said, taking the words out of my mouth. Klein answered, seemingly robbed of spirit.

"Of course... Everything's gone, no matter how you look at it."

"No, it seems that property has been converted to Yurudo while items have been converted into scrolls and stored in the players' inventories."

This explanation came from Yui, who stuck her head out from my shirt pocket. Normally immovable objects could be converted into scrolls through the banker NPC. It seemed that even the Cardinal System wasn't cruel enough to remove players' items in an instant. It felt oddly heartwarming.

"......Is that true? At least some things can still be salvaged then..."

Just as Lisbeth was speaking.

A huge shrill scream from behind us interrupted her.

"Hey hey hey, is that true?! The scroll conversion I mean? Please please please tell me it's true!!!"

I turned around in surprise. About two meters away, a small girl wearing a round hat was standing, no, levitating in the air. A cloak was draped around her, and her right arm clutched a staff almost as tall as herself. From the rims of her hat, a large amount of golden curls fell forward, covering her eyes. Her skin was milky white, and her wings were pale yellow.

''...Who's that? No, before that, what race is she?'' Someone short enough for me to look downwards, she was either Cait Sith or a Leprechaun, but she didn't have the symbolic cat ears on her head of gold hair. Upon further pondering, I came to the conclusion that she was an NPC. If that was the case, her color cursor should be the same as Þrym.

To affirm my point, I looked straight at her and locked my cursor upon her veiled face.

However, a rectangular frame appeared at the top right corner of my vision, accompanied with a soft sound effect. This frame displayed the cursor information, and meant that the target was either a player or a monster. I nervously scanned her name. "Marinca", spelled entirely using alphabets. Wait, the ALO system shouldn't display names of unaccustomed players. No matter how much I racked my brains, I couldn't recall where had I met her before. If so, how was I able to see her name...?

"Ahh..."

Silica, who was hugging Pina tightly against her chest, let out a soft gasp from behind me. A moment later, I finally understood.

There was a string of shining letters hovering above the mysterious girl — Marinca's cursor.

"GAME MASTER"

"W-Woah, aren't you a GM?! Wow, it's the first time I've seen one in ALO!"

Klein muttered in amazement. I was similarly shocked. A Game Master was, as the name implied, the ones who managed to world of Alfheim Online. They were positioned higher than the Cardinal System, in other words they were employees of the company running ALO.

As to how much influence a GM had in game, this differed among games. There were MMOs where GMs specially dived in to interact with players and announce of upcoming events, but I never heard of such things happening in ALO. To me, this was the first time I had seen a GM's Avatar in Alfheim.

"E-Erm, I'm sorry, I haven't told you my name... You can call me Marinca from Ymir..."

[[Image:Sword Art Online Caliber SS.jpeg|thumb]]

Ymir, this was the name of the company running ALO. After RECTO's dissolution, ALO was supposed to be shut down too. Ymir though decided to purchase the servers despite declining player population, just like gods descending to save a doomed planet. However this wasn't revealed to the players. Even I didn't know much about the company, save that one of the employers was an old friend of Agil's.

Despite that, this GM, a supposed God in this world, gave me a feeling that she was unreliable. I shook my head, thinking of the current situation, and asked.

"...Erm, Marinca, you previously asked if the scroll conversion was true... Does that mean even Ymir doesn't know what's going on in Alfheim right now...?"

"Err——Erm... To be precise..."

Marinca lifted her staff into the air, twirled it for a moment, before saying:

"To be honest, this situation in Alfheim was just discovered not long ago."

"......W-What...?"

This low sound came from Asuna, who was standing on my right. Recognizing this voice full of agitation as the voice of "the sub-leader of the Knights of Blood" before going berserk, I hastily tried to stop her — but I was one step too late.

"What irresponsible words!! How long do you think this quest has been going on? Haven't you had ample opportunities to stop the script using administrator privileges?! To think none of you noticed this before Aarun crumbled, what are the game managers doing?"

"I'm s-s-sorry!!!"

As Asuna berated Marinca, Klein and I both tucked our heads away in fear, a habit inherited from attending her strategy meetings in the past. It was fortunate that Asuna didn't notice our gestures, as she moved a step forward —her shoes made a sound as they scrapped against the ground, this might just be me imagining things— and yelled in an enraged voice:

"Let's ignore the matter of how this happened in the first place — in a situation like this, wouldn't a simple Rollback be sufficient? How many hours can we rollback to?"

A rollback was the final measure in an MMO. Because the server was reverted back to a state in the past, it would reset all progress players' made in this time frame, including Yurudo and Experience. Of course, these were extremely important.

Even though we had took up "Urðr's request" to avoid complete destruction, we failed at the last moment. It should be dawning on the players who had taken "Þrym's quest" now, that they had indirectly caused Aarun's destruction, and the holy sword promised as a reward was nothing but the "Fake Sword Caliburn". Since things had progressed to such a level, a rollback was inevitable, and most players should be able to understand. Now to hope that the time lost was as minimal as possible. That was what I thought as I awaited Marinca's reply.

How would she reply? This GM who didn't look at a GM at all would probably stutter and smile clumsily at us.

"Well, about that... I checked the logs and it appears that the completion of the quest, in other words the beginning of this script, triggered a server backup..."

"W-What????"

This loud sound came from the seven of us. The GM's small stature quivered, as she continued nonchalantly.

"But it's such a relief that all the items were converted into scrolls! This is like casting an anchor windward... No, a blessing in disguise... That's not right either..."

"By the skin of your teeth"

In a low voice, Sinon who was situated behind me replied. "True, True", the rest of us agreed. Taking out a strand of spear mint from her pocket and placing it in her mouth, the sniper coolly asked:

"GM-kun, how did the situation get like this? Did the Cardinal System's 'automatic quest generation' feature malfunction?"

Upon hearing this, Marinca pouted "Uuuu" and said.

"Y-You sure know a lot! I've been working at Ymir for two weeks, and only known of Cardi-chan yesterday! No, I'm not joking!"

In these three sentences, there was at least one I was tempted to take a jab at, to the point my mouth was twitching on its own. Marinca waved her arms and said in an innocent tone:

"Wow, Cardi-chan sure is amazing! Not only can it identify bugs in quests, it can also fix dungeons with exploitable EXP mobs and even trace players with abnormal Yurudo and EXP stats!"

I suppose by Cardi-chan she was referring to the Cardinal System. This was one of its main advantages, of which we were all familiar of by now. In the old SAO, the Cardinal System often found our 'EXP farming spots' and quickly patched them. My lively daughter Yui was also part of the Cardinal System's low level processes; I shudder to imagine how powerful the computing levels of the Cardinal System are.

Marinca, who probably had no idea that the majority of us were SAO survivors, clasped her hands together.

"I also wish to one day reach Cardi-chan's level of administration! During yesterday's maintenance, even though it wasn't required, I still dived in from a specialized VR Console to monitor the situation up close. I even discovered many unused functions and models in the Quest interfaces. I thought that since the server was shut down, messing around a little wouldn't do any harm..."

"...Just like one of those movies, where the single press of a button would cause an explosion..."

Lyfa mumbled. I felt the same way too, but Marinca seemed to have missed that and continued her astonishing story as a GM.

"...But then, even when I turned the settings ON, nothing happened. So I continued watching the maintenance, and finally when it was time to reboot the server, I totally..."

"Forgot to turn the settings OFF, right?"

Asuna took another menacing step forward. Marinca immediately stopped talking and let out her third whimper.

"I-I'm the kind of person who is great at turning things like television, lights and air conditioners on, but I'm really bad when it comes to turning them off. I've been telling myself that in order to not cause trouble for others, I need to erm, mind my own business... Ahh, that's not it..."

This time Sinon didn't correct her. She continued staring straight ahead, with the spear mint still in her mouth. Maybe something about the Cath Sith's gaze caused Marinca to straighten up and finish her story.

"So um... After confirming the maintenance was complete, I slept for a while in the office. In the afternoon I was awoken by the shouts of other employees... It seemed that something huge had happened in-game. Looking at the situation, I had no idea if Cardi-chan was going on a rampage or kicking up a fuss... Actually, I was the one who had activated the 'Speed up mission' option! Ahh, this is the dream of every MMO operator — even though it's freeware, it's still capable of such intricate and powerful operations, Cardi-chan sure is awesome!! O-Oh yeah, where was I? Ahh yes, after I woke up, I was ordered to assess the situation in Aarun. Hearing that the players' items have been converted into scrolls is such a relief, like a blessing in disguise... No I mean... Ahh how should I put it!"

Taking our gazes off the GM who was frantically hugging her hat, we exchanged gazes.

"...Anyway, at least we now know the reason why the Cardinal System's quest suddenly accelerated."

Yui, who was resting in my front pocket, nodded after hearing my word.

"This fits the saying 'You can't hate a crying GM'<ref>Originally 'You can't hate a crying kid'</ref> pretty well"

"Yeah... Even the Cardinal System wouldn't be able to sit idly in dummy mode forever.<ref>Referring to the current situation of perfect autonomous server management, without the need for GMs</ref> Putting it in another perspective, it seems that the Cardinal System's finally shown its true potential..."

"It must be a desire that's been accumulating for months, finally exploding all at once."

We all agreed to Silica's words. If we treated the Cardinal system as a living being instead of a regulating program, it wouldn't be too hard for us to understand its feelings. The question was, just how much power did the Cardinal System have? Even though the world was supposedly based on the Norse Mythology of Ragnarök and the «Twilight of the Gods» seemed to be a fitting final battle, but...

I looked at Lyfa, who was gazing up at the blue, frozen castle basked under the sun.

"From Þrym's speech it seems that the Frost Giants aim to reach the top of the World Tree. If we just ignore this, not only Aarun, even the entire Yggdrasil City could be decimated..."

"E-Ehh?!"

This came from Lisbeth, who owned a smithing shop in the city of Yggdrasil. Even though the Yurudo used for purchasing the shop and the items within were safe, it was hard to accept a giant flattening her shop which she had painstakingly spent months to acquire and decorate.

Asuna and I had previously rented a small house near Liz's shop in Yggdrasil City. After we moved to the 22nd floor of the floating castle Aincrad, I no longer had any reason to defend Yggdrasil City. However, there was one thing which made me uneasy.

"Say, Lyfa."

I said to the Slyph swordswoman, who turned towards me with her golden ponytail swishing in the wind. Searching my memory of the past ten or so minutes, I asked:

"Before we were ejected from the castle, that old geezer Þrym said something about what he would do after climbing the World Tree... Something about overthrowing Midgard. What exactly is Midgard?"

"Mmm, even though I've never heard about it in ALO, but according to Norse Mythology it's supposedly one of the nine realms. Just like how Jötunheimr is the world of Frost Giants, Alfheim is the world of elves and Asgard is the world of gods... Midgard is the world of humans. But there is no human race available for ALO players."

Staring at my sister who was rapidly feeding us information, I muttered the only conclusion I came to.

"Then Midgard... Should probably refer to Aincrad..."

"W-WHAT??"

This time it was Klein, who up until now had knitted his brows and crossed his arms, that screamed.

"Overthrow from the sky... The entire Aincrad? If that's the case, shouldn't the final act be starting..."

"Final act?"

"Of course... The 'Legendary Samurai Klein' Act"

Not even bothering to come up with a reply, I dragged the swordsman by his patterned bandana aside and looked at Asuna, asking her 'What do you think?' with my eyes.

Upon hearing that Aincrad, or more specifically 'The house in the forest on the 22nd floor' was in jeopardy, she should be in a state of panic. However, the expression on Asuna's face was unbelievably calm, and after a quick moment of thinking, she nodded her head.

"Yeah... I think that's possible. In the old SAO, all of the players were human. After being incorporated into ALO, it's possible that NPCs would designate that castle as the 'Human World Midgard'."

"H-How can that..."

With an expression that looked like she was about to cry, with her ears drooped down to the lowest, Silica said in a pained voice. In perfect contradiction, the other Cait Sith who was waving her tail around like a Metronome, concluded the situation in an icy voice even colder than Asuna's.

"This means that if we don't stop the Frost Giants' imminent attack on Yggdrasil City and prevent them from obtaining the 'Golden Apple' on the tip of the World Tree, it might not only be Aarun and Yggdrasil City which lie in ruin, even Aincrad would be at danger of being destroyed. Let's stop thinking about what they plan to do next. What we need to do now is to stop them at all costs... But what can we do to prevent that..."

Everyone nodded solemnly after listening to Sinon's report. True enough, we had failed the quest "Urðr's request", but the quest window didn't point us to a follow up quest. There was bound to be another opportunity to attack Þrymheimr castle in the future, but before that battle, King Þrym's HP bar was nonexistent. In this state he was no different from an unengageable NPC. This was what I was worried about the most, as even if we made preparations and stormed the throne room again, if we were unable to fight him it would be meaningless in the end.

However, the one who gave us our next clue was unexpectedly the clumsy GM Marinca.

"No worries, there's a way!"

"......"

All of us looked at the administrator who didn't look like one at all. Her gaze unshifting, Marincase puffed out her chest and said:

"I just checked Cardi-chan's quest generation status, it seems that an event will happen later at 3 in the afternoon! If you join that event, I'm sure you'll receive a follow up quest!"

"......Erm, I think Ymir should be capable to doing something from the outside, is that not?"

I asked casually. For the fourth time a whimper escaped Marinca. We could only hope that it was the last.

"Ah, I just received a message from my superiors, it seems there are only two options — 'Rollback to two weeks ago' or 'Complete the Cardinal System's Quest!' Oh there's a postscript, 'Since you've been involved until now, take responsibility and join an in-game party in clearing the quest'! Ohh, this is like being paralyzed while you're poisoned!<ref>A pun on a proverb which roughly translates to 'adding snow to frost'. An English equivalent would be adding insult to injury.</ref>"

"That's why, please accept me into your party! Ahh the numbers don't matter, as a GM I can join as a special 8th member!"

Stunning silence.

Being able to hear such words, I don't think such opportunities will ever present themselves again.

I removed the AmuSphere from my head and continued lying down on my bed, stretching my rigid hands and feet.

A minimal amount of Winter Sunlight poured through the window into the room, landing on the surface of my alarm clock next to my bed before warmly reflecting off. The time was one thirty. The second chapter in our quest would continue only at three, hence it was vital that we ate and did any other things in the meantime. Due to this, we checked in an inn situated in the Aarun valley and logged out.

With all my might, I let out a deep sigh and said to myself.

"...Things sure have gotten bad huh..."

Cardin-chan — That is to say, the Cardinal System, even though it was a self sustaining, high level VRMMO management system, all this mess happened because it threw a ruckus. No, maybe the Cardinal System didn't think there was a problem. Instead of saying it 'managed' the world, a more appropriate term would be 'supported' it — that would be the reason for and proof of her (because of Marinca calling her affectionately, I couldn't help but visualize her as a female now) existence...

As I was lost in thought, there was a light knock on my door. Even though there wasn't a voice, I could guess who it was. Because aside from me, there was only someone else in this house.

"Please come in."

I sat up as the door opened with a *Ka-chak*. I was confused for a moment — if it was the person I expected, the door should have opened with a *Ka-chak-Pong* sound.

Slowly opening the door and peeking her head in, it was my sister Suguha after all. She wore the same green shirt as she did this morning, however her expression was different.

"Onii-chan... Before we have lunch, can we talk for a moment?"

Suguha looked very nervous, as if she was seeking assurance. I nodded and replied unsurely "Ahh... Okay, yeah". She quickly closed the door and hopped lightly across the floorboards, sitting on the other side of the bed.

Her fringe was trimmed just before her eyebrows. Lowering her head, she said softly.

"......Will it be alright?"

At first I thought she meant Alfheim, but I quickly changed my mind. If she was worried about the Elven Kingdom, Suguha would definitely shout energetically "We'll try harder this time!" or something to that effect. She was worried not about the current situation, but about her precious comrade.

I moved next to my sister and patted her back, saying:

"Of course he'll be alright. Right now he's not a monster but an NPC, even if someone else attacks him, he'll have no HP Bar. The next time we want to descend into Jötunheimr, he'll definitely come flying over when he hears our call."

Of course, the comrade in question was the Evil god-type monster Tonkii, which we had rode on plenty of times. Right now, in the underground world Jötunheimr, hundreds of players had accomplished "Þrym's quest", which meant all beast-type evil gods had been slain. Suguha was worried about whether or not Tonkii had been slain too.

"...And that guy, he's always flying up high above ground. It's impossible for players to fly in Jötunheimr, so swords and magic definitely can't reach him."

I added enthusiastically. Suguha finally looked up at me and smiled, saying:

"Yeah... That's right. Thank you Onii-chan, now I can finally be at ease."

Suguha tilted her body and rested her head on my right shoulder. My posture was already odd to begin with, with the added weight of Suguha's body, I lost my balance and fell onto the bed.

Suguha came tumbling down moments later, her head landing on my chest.

"Uwaa..."

Upon hearing her, I immediately tried to move my body, but it was once again squashed by something warm, as I sank further into the bed.

"Oi oi, Suguha..."

As I frantically moved my body, my brain searched for words to be used in this situation. My mind however failed me and I was unable to come up with anything to say. Suguha whispered into my ear:

"...The next quest starts at 3, there's still some time left. So for a while... Just let me..."

I had no idea what to do or what was going on. At the very least, I should stop moving. A nostalgic yet slightly different smell wafted through my nostrils, and from my chest I felt my heartbeat accelerate.

"...Unbelievable."

Suguha, who was lying on my right shoulder, squinted and looked at me straight in the eye.

"After something so monumental happened over there in 'that world', it feels unbelievable to be back here again. It's just like, that's reality, and this is the illusionary world..."

"Yeah... To an extent, I understand."

I continued speaking, momentarily forgetting my nervousness.

"It's surreal... Just like a dream. I've felt that before. It's like a dream I experience once I fall asleep in the inn over there..."

"...Yeah, just like that. A dream... That could be the case maybe."

"Heh heh." That familiar, innocent yet somehow appealing face let out a laugh, causing me to hold my breath.

I closed my eyes, not due to tiredness but because I felt a wave of drowsiness wash over me in this situation. Suguha's voice was like the trickling of a stream, comforting my senses.

"If this is a dream..."

—If this is a dream?

"...Then let's redo the failed mission."

—So that's it.

With my eyes closed, I let out a bitter laugh. Maybe because my concentration was waning due to being on the verge of sleep, but my gamer's instinct told me this.

We failed the quest "Urðr's request"... Even though it was due to us being short-handed, I had this feeling that if we hadn't made a mistake or missed something somewhere, we might have been able to complete the quest.

The only point where a choice was offered in the game— that would be......

It was here that I stopped thinking further and fell asleep. It might be a short nap till our next adventure in a matter of minutes... Or an infinite sleep where I would never wake up.

(End?)

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==References and Translation Notes==

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