Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Chapter 4

2007-02-13T19:48:26Z

71.111.177.82: /* "Against the sun." */

Erm, yeah I removed the clear nonsense added by 201. whatever. Now you have taken it back to Bakafish's first update - he had done a second with a few more line in. When I put in "vandalism" I mean fixing it, not carrying it out - please compare versions. - [[User:81.101.40.82|81.101.40.82]] 16:46, 14 January 2007 (PST)

== Cat scene ==

:I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. Then I lifted Shamisen from my sister's wrist and shifted him down off my bed. Being the bothersome cat he is, he hmphed  and jumped right back onto my bed.

:So then I changed, my sister standing by the side there pinching Shamisen's furry cheeks. He immediately resisted and started to scamper away with a 'pata pata',  only to have two hands latch onto his tail. So, he let out a 'ぐふにゃあ'  and promptly escaped by running out of my room, my sister following him. Since they started this noise right in the morning, I was awake in no time at all.

:As I walked out of my room and started to wash my face, I saw my sister crooning 'Kitty scarf~'  while letting Shamisen sit on the back of her neck. Shamisen was hanging on to my sister's woolen sweater, trying to defy her as best he could. Accordingly, I decided to ignore them calmly.

I suggest the following:

I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. Then I lifted Shamisen from my sister's wrist and shifted him down off my bed. Being the bothersome cat he is, he 'hmphed' and jumped right back onto my bed.

So then I changed, my sister standing by the side there pinching Shamisen's furry cheeks. He immediately resisted and started to scamper away with a 'pata pata', only to have two hands latch onto his tail. So, he let out a complaining 'gnnyaa!' and promptly escaped by running out of my room, my sister in pursuit. Since they started this noise first thing in the morning, I was awake in no time at all.

As I walked out of my room and started to wash my face, I saw my sister crooning 'Kitty scarf~' while draping Shamisen on the back of her neck. Shamisen was hanging on to my sister's woolen sweater, trying to defy her as best he could. Accordingly, I decided to ignore them calmly.

--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 06:02, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== "Against the sun." ==

:As she said this, Haruhi looked like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid that ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

:Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. After entering the month of February, I had been fooled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

How should we interpret this? Is this Haruhi with an expression so dark that it defeats the sun, so arrogant as to trample the gods or (most likely in my view) so bright it outshines the sun? Kyon's response is hard to fit on the dark or arrogant interpretation. On the bright interpretation I'd suggest:

:As she said this, Haruhi glowed like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid away my own ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

:Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. Since entering the month of February, I had been lulled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 10:02, 13 February 2007 (PST)

:I think this is an extension of an earlier passage where Kyon describes a "battle" between the sun and the wind:
::''One side of my head was taking a bath in something that seemed like the North Wind in all its glory doing battle with the sun, so I hid my face in my scarf and walked forwards.''
:[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 11:06, 13 February 2007 (PST)

::Interesting take, that hadn't occurred to me. So if we take Haruhi as cold and blustery...well, that actually fits with the sharp banter at least as well, I could go with that. The more I consider, the more I like it. So the first line could become:

:::As she said this, Haruhi looked like the North Wind had won out against the sun.

::Or am I reaching for too much clarity?--[[User:71.111.177.82|71.111.177.82]] 11:48, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume2 Chapter2

2007-02-08T17:36:40Z

71.111.177.82: Ambiguous passage

== References & Translators Notes ==

== Editors' Notes ==

== Hands on fists ==

This line:

''Like 100% pure fruit juice, Asahina the waitress clutched her hands and placed them tightly on her fists and sat stiffly.''

Needs some work, no?

1. Clutch your hands

2. Place them on your fists???

I just don't see what Asahina is supposed to be doing...

--[[User:Xim|Xim]] 05:43, 18 August 2006 (PDT)

:I'm inclined to rewrite this line thus:

:''As sweet as 100% pure fruit juice, Asahina the waitress clutched her hands and placed them tightly on her lap, sitting stiffly.''

:This fits with Asahina's portrayal later in the same scene, and makes better sense of the first phrase too. This was probably the author's intent, even if the "hands on fists" is in the original text. Without objection, I'll change it when I pass by again.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 05:53, 8 February 2007 (PST)

== Ambiguous passage ==

:"Up to today, our school life had been as normal as it gets, just that it got spiced up, to the level of nearly losing control, by Haruhi's over-enthusiasm in the making of her movie. If a survey were conducted in the high schools over the whole nation, I'm sure there are people who are as eccentric as us. In other words, they're all living a "normal" life.

:I wasn't attacked by Nagato's people; I didn't go time traveling with Asahina-san; and I didn't encounter any giants that shone like a glowing piece of blue mold; lastly, I never experienced any murder mysteries with a ridiculous truth hidden within."

I have two questions about this passage near the end of the chapter.

1. As it stands this statement is counterfactual. However, it would all make sense if prefaced with,"''From Haruhi's perspective'', up to today..." Has a qualifier of this sort somehow gotten lost in the translation, or is it really just implied by the context?

2. Is it really "murder mysteries?" Haruhi did experience a murder mystery with a ridiculous truth hidden inside. What she didn't experience was the ridiculous truth hidden in the ''mysterious '''disappearance''''' of the computer club prez.

Could someone please check the original on these points?--[[User:71.111.177.82|71.111.177.82]] 09:36, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Chapter 2

2007-02-02T19:31:31Z

71.111.177.82: Kyon, Mikuru, Tsuruya scene setting

Hmm.... who could the person be.... Its not Asakura, its not Nagato. It can't be Haruhi of course. Tsuruya? Probably not. Koizumi? Maybe. The Computer Club President? Nah. The green haired alien girl? No. Taniguchi? Can't be.

I'm betting its Koizumi.--[[User:66.245.248.87|66.245.248.87]] 17:38, 26 December 2006 (PST)

:no, tsuruya for sure.
:#Mikuru says they can"t tell him.her the secret -> koizumi already know
:#Kyon'd prefer die than making mikuru stay at another man's house XD
:#they never went to koizumi,'s house, but went to tsurara's during the movie shots.
:[[User:Darkoneko|DarkoNeko]] <small>[[User_Talk:Darkoneko|talk]]</small> 17:41, 26 December 2006 (PST)

::Nice try, DN. >.>
::It is, in fact, *spoil*!
::^__^.
::[[User:BaKaFiSh|BaKaFiSh]]

== I'm having trouble ==

believing this... I mean, I knew Tsuruya was thick, but this is excessive! To the point of unbelievability. Next he'll say its all to help the poooor orphans and ask for a "donation."--[[User:66.245.248.87|66.245.248.87]] 10:31, 3 January 2007 (PST)
:She's not really believing him, actually. She just don't show it. [[User:Darkoneko|DarkoNeko]] <small>[[User_Talk:Darkoneko|talk]]</small> 14:49, 3 January 2007 (PST)

== "That won't flatter anymore." ==

"But, I am here."

Said the unshaking voice, there was nobody more reliable than her.

'''"That won't flatter anymore."'''

This line makes no sense as it stands. What would make sense here could be something like, "I won't falter anymore." Or does it mean something more in the spirit of, 'I'm no faction's pawn anymore"?--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 07:58, 2 February 2007 (PST)

== Kyon, Mikuru, Tsuruya scene setting ==

I interpret the scene as starting out at a wooden gate into a courtyard. So, for example this sentence:

Tsuruya-san let us into the Tsuruya house, then put the (something) on the inside of the closed door.

would become:

Tsuruya-san let us into the Tsuruya compound, then put the bar back in place on the inside of the closed gate.

I don't see how this scene can make any sense as entry through a door into a building. Any objection to a rewrite on this basis? Or am I misunderstanding something?--[[User:71.111.177.82|71.111.177.82]] 11:31, 2 February 2007 (PST)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume6 Charmed at First Sight LOVER

2007-01-25T18:34:20Z

71.111.177.82: Barbed fence

== Nakagawa's position ==

I don't know if this is an error in the original text or a mistranslation. Nakagawa is initially stated to be a kicker but at the game he's a tight end. [[User:Confucious|Confucious]] 14:07, 5 January 2007 (PST)
:Hmm. It seems you found a mistranslation! The original line is "もちろん俺はスタメンで出る" (Mochiron are (wa) SUTAMEN de deru) which doesn't have anything in it to suggest "kicker". I'd personally translate that line as "Of course, I'm in the starting lineup" (mochiron = of course, are = I, me, SUTAMEN = abbeviation for "starting member" and deru = to appear). Kinny has a habit of taking liberties with the translation but at least he's usually more consistent than this :p [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 16:22, 5 January 2007 (PST)

== Tomcat ==

I checked the Japanese raws and it does say "Who's the tomcat?"
「どっちがトムキャットだ」
I also have no idea what this means...
:Considering the context, I think Kyon is asking (sarcastically) who Koizumi's boyfriend is. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 07:04, 9 January 2007 (PST)

While plausible, I take a different line from Smidge on this. I read it as, "Aren't you the tomcat?" (meaning, not necessarily the words.) Kyon shows no signs at all of homophobia, he doesn't make intrusive personal attacks, and in general the characters seem very respectful of personal privacy. Koizumi's "tomcatting" is "on the table" between Kyon and Koizumi, but the limits of his sexuality aren't. So the meaning becomes, "why don't '''you''' mess around with her?" rather than, "so you're not enough of a man?" Of course the ambiguity on this point could be intentional, making both of us correct. Still, "Aren't you..." might be preferable as it is easier for the English reader to follow.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 06:59, 25 January 2007 (PST)

== taking or giving dictation ==

"It requires a great deal of courage to use such language in a confession letter. And you reveal yourself to be a generally nice person by agreeing to '''dictate''' it. If I were you, my fingers would have been trembling too much to be able to '''write''' anything,"

This doesn't quite make sense. Nakagawa dictates to Kyon, Kyon transcribes. later, Kyon reads to Nagato. What he doesn't do is 'dictate.'

Subbing 'transcribe' or 'record' for 'dictate' solves the problem one way, subbing 'read' solves it another. One could also put in 'communicate.'What is closer to the sense of the original Japanese?--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 06:59, 25 January 2007 (PST)

== Barbed fence ==

"Barbed fence" isn't idiomatic in American English, but maybe it is in English English.

The fence would seem to be a "chain link" fence. It's certainly not a three strand "barbed wire" fence of the sort used for containing livestock. Chain link fences are sometimes topped with barbed wire. However, the top of the fence doesn't factor at all in this story. If no one objects, I'll change all references to "chain link."--[[User:71.111.177.82|71.111.177.82]] 10:34, 25 January 2007 (PST)

User talk:Nutcase

2007-01-25T16:42:34Z

71.111.177.82: Charmed at First Sight LOVER

To preserve for ongoing consideration

As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)
----

To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance from "Lone Island Syndrome" boils down to this:

"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears."

Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent.

Smidege204: The line in question is "ハルヒの問いに圭一さんは苦笑い" in which "苦笑い" means "bitter smile" - so wryly fits perfectly here :)

"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.

"Squeamish" is actually a good choice as a translator's default as long as it is understood to be a placeholder; it's easy to find and usually so incongruent that it obviously needs to be replaced when somebody gets around to it. The author's intention is going to be particularly nuanced exactly on this sort of point, so a translator may well want to bypass it while doing the heavy lifting part of the translation. One wants to finish framing before breaking out the planes and the sandpaper.

This is my view. Since it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, I have acted on this view, examining, with scalpel in hand, all examples of "squeamish." ;)

== Lone Mountain Syndrome ==

I did a very messy job of editing this chapter. It's embarrassing. Oh well, live and learn.

90% is just the usual clean-up stuff, uncontroversial. The entryway layout is somewhat more consequential. I do figure it for double doors as the best explanation for the mixed use of "gates" and "doors."

Another somewhat questionable point has to do with the "What's with you and Yuki" scene; at the end, I first changed "dull" eyes (can't possibly be right) to "brimming," but that seemed out of character - not out of the question, congruent with blinking, but still...so finally I downshifted to "soft." Probably impossible to distinguish "dull" and "soft" in the original Japanese without the context, and "dull" is just so wrong...

Late in the story I noticed Koizumi observing that, "Eutopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same mirror." Hmmm...did he really say that? My ears always light up when I encounter such an interesting mixed metaphor.

== Live A Live ==

This is the one story that I feel was substantially improved upon in the anime compared to the book. Of course the story as written has an unworkably long performance sequence for the anime, but set that aside. "God Knows" in particular is an actually great performance of an actually great song. Hirano Aya belts this one out of the park, and the animaters did it justice. Beyond that, the reaction of the audience is more congruent. Audiences don't reward a stunningly great pop music performance with stunned silence. Also it's more in the realm of plausibility to get solid interpretations for two songs worked out in an hour, rather than trying to construct solid interpretations on the fly for several songs. Finally, I like how "God Knows" can be taken as a "confession." You don't have to read it that way, but I take it as a factor in Kyon's stunned expression.

== Charmed at First Sight LOVER ==

This chapter includes an important scene between Koizumi and Kyon which pivots on this line:

「どっちがトムキャットだ」

currently interpreted as, "Who's the tomcat?" This is Kyon's response to Koizumi saying:

"Besides, you could still mess around with Suzumiya-san to reduce stress. Unfortunately, I do not have such a luxury."

What does this mean? In the context, Kyon could be, in essense, calling Koizumi a pussy - "Then who's your boyfriend?"; this was my first take. But take it a little further and this interpretation feels cross-threaded. Kyon doesn't make this kind of insult - he's prickly, not intrusively stabbing with his sarcasm. Also Kyon doesn't take Koizumi lightly. Plus having a tomcat boyfriend wouldn't necessarily be an obstacle.

It's more plausible that Kyon means that Koizumi is both bolder and more promiscuous/detached, and therefore better qualified to "mess around" with Haruhi. Kyon knows himself to not be a tomcat, and of course he is wary of having his heart ripped out. He is a bit envious of Koizumi's defenses. The main point of the scene is that Koizumi reveals some vulnerability to Kyon even through his mask. It ties in with the chronologically later "confession" Koizumi makes in Snow Mountain Syndrome, a confession of loyalty to the SOS Dan ahead of the Organization.