Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Clannad:Guidelines

2007-12-29T07:38:54Z

71.202.158.239:

== Tenses ==
Velocity_7 requested I make a section for this on the discussion page.

So what do you guys think about the current rules for tenses? --[[User:Minagi|Minagi]] 22:28, 13 December 2007 (PST)

== Digits, Interjections, thinking words, shouts/screams and action words ==
I would like to clarify on some of the translation guidelines.

Firstly, do we substitute Arabic numerals on the original text for half-width digits (e.g. 20) or their English equivalents (Twenty)? If it had not been decided, I would suggest that we stick to digits for convention, clarity and conciseness. For kanji numerals, I'd rather we use English words.

In the translations I have seen, interjections were mostly substituted beautifully, but there were several crude ones, and some of those were translated in other ways for other scenarios.

May I suggest to translators and editors:

あの, ano -> Um

え, e -> Eh (repeated えs would be Eeeeh etc.)

ああ, aa -> Ya / K' / Yea / Aah (depending on context)

あ, a -> Ah

えっと, etto -> Erm / Err

っ, 'sokuon' -> ' (e.g. 「えっ？」 -> "Eh'?" , but only when the situation allows) (refer to the Yorkshire accent part on glottal stops in Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop])

For those at the end of sentences:

よ, ね, な, ぞ etc. -> huh / not? / (nothing, for when it is an integral part of the sentence, i.e. sounds awkward without it) / reflected in the sentence as

だろう, だろ -> I wonder / I guess / right? / not? / probably / it is probable

I believe the rest have more obvious equivalents in English, and won't have much trouble integrating.

In the topic of screams, as they usually hold no meaning, might I suggest substituting them word for word (Hepburn romanization with kana spelling) with the ー, chouon substituted for a dash, small vowels as their english equivalent (I have thought of substituting large vowels with caps, but wouldn't it lose some aesthetic quality?) and っ with a 'h' where aesthetic standards allow.

For action words that occupy a single line, may I suggest the format as per in the following example, :''もぐもぐ… *mogu mogu, munch munch''

I used the above format for action words in sentences like じっと、そこを見た during my translation draft (which was only at its third day as per this project's founding, despite that I started it near the end of December). However, I find it sloppy when nested in sentences, and I guess it also breaks the flow of the script. Please criticize this suggestions mercilessly.[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:34, 6 February 2007 (PST)

: I agree with most of the conventions used above, albeit with a few minor changes:
: - 'mogu mogu' should just be 'munch, munch'
: - IRJustman and I would like to go with using just words for numbers (e.g., five), unless it comes to maybe 10-yen coins. Not like someone can say "one million yen", right, as opposed to "1,000,000 yen"?
: - screams we'll have to think about, it's kind of hard to romanize say, Sunohara's ひぃぃぃぃぃぃ！！
: - most of the stuff above is freeform, so like you said, will depend on context.
: [[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 10:09, 6 February 2007 (EST)

: Ditto with velocity7. But I think the interjection translations should be guidelines; translators should retain free rein in using alternatives to naturalise/normalise the speech. Same goes for wild random screaming, this should be translator's call?
: More importantly, characters need to sound consistent throughout the game. Either this should be handled by QC, or translators can route-specialise. Or something; i'm new to this game.
: American English, or British English?
: --[[User:Kwok|Kwok]] 05:40, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== Naming ==
May I suggest adding a Female Youth name as a translation for 少女, shoujo, as a name title especially for the first Kotomi scene. At that first meeting, Tomoya was not too fond of her, hence the more formal name (albeit more conventional, in my opinion), even though name titles are not actually supposed to reflect relations.[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:34, 6 February 2007 (PST)

I'm inclined to follow your suggestion too, but will there be space constraints? Also, 'Female Youth' sounds rather detached and unemotional for a guy's thoughts, so would 'Girl' be simpler and sweeter? It's more casual and normalise the scenario that way. Same for shounen; we could call them "Guy".--[[User:Kwok|Kwok]] 05:29, 13 February 2007 (PST)

A bit of trouble with the main arc. Tomoya often refers to Akio as オッサン. Would that be 'Uncle'?--[[User:Kwok|kwok]] 01:46, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

== Punctuation and General Typography ==

In the guidelines page, ellipses were written as '...' (3 periods). However, there exists a special character for groups of 3 ellipses, '…'. This character is also used in the game text. Unless it is due to technical restrictions(which I doubt there is), the second ellipse should be used. That is to distinguish the ellipses from the period following, as per The Chicago Manual of Style[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%A6]. Yes, a period is required after ellipses when writing in English. I would not recommend using a program to substitute periods for this character after translating for fear that it might make some unwanted changes in the text.

There are also other things to take note of. The hyphen at your keyboard is only for hyphens. For dashes, use the following

For a limited range, e.g. '07–15' (haven't encountered any), or prefixing a term e.g. 'pre–World War II', use an en dash '–' (XP users: Alt+0150)

For an open range, e.g. 'Saturday—' an em dash '—'(XP users: Alt+0151)

A word that is cut off halfway (say, when some interrupts your conversation) is denoted by a character more commonly seen in Unicode art (well, it sure isn't ASCII, and it's not Shift-JIS)(part of the box drawing character set). It seems like Key used that character as it did not have gaps when placed consequentially. Long lines are usually multiples of this character too. I would recommend using the horizontal bar '―' (U+2013; ampersand, hash, 8213, semicolon), as it also joins with another itself.

As stated in the previous topic, the chouon is used for creative purposes in shouts and yells. The em dash is an excellent substitution for it.

The full width tilde '～' is used in several instances, like ぐっ～～. Seems like Key used it instead of the more politically correct wave symbol '〜' (they probably didn't know of it's existence). Both are in East Asian character sets. I can't find of any non-Asian character that imitates the full width tilde satisfactorily. Maybe we should default to half width tildes?

There is a quotation dash ⁓ (U+2053; ampersand, hash, 8275, semicolon). However, I currently cannot think of any instance it might be required in the script.
[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:05, 13 February 2007 (PST)

:I understand that there is a love for Unicode characters in the script at the moment. However, if you would all please have a look at [http://dev.haeleth.net/rldev/manual.html#htoc26 this website...]
:You'll notice that I am currently using Western encoding to encode the script with rlBabel. At the time of this writing, this is currently the only way to compile the script so that it looks and works fine. In other words, if the character is not supported under CP1251 or ISO-8859-1, it is not very likely to work. This includes all Japanese characters.

:That's the reasoning for my use of "..." at the moment. For all other characters, they will have to be replaced or modified in some way in order to match up with this. I haven't had time to go look back in scripts to fix this, so if you have time, please feel free to fix them.

:--[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]], February 13, 2007, 8:59 AM EST

CP1252 uses the code point 85 for ellipses, which is unassigned in ISO-8859-1. I'm guessing that this was what Haeleth meant by (ISO-8859-1 with extensions). Why not give it a try?

[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 12:37, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== 創立者祭 ==

A couple of possible translations for 創立者祭:[http://www.japanisdoomed.com/2006/10/01/school-festival/][http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/explore/calendar/november/festival.html]
*school festival (impossible due to SEEN2510)
*Founder's Day
*School Anniversary

Any comments? --[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]]

**I would pick Founder's Day. --[[User:Kwok|kwok]] 00:10, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
***Actually, I would pick School Foundation Day, lol... we have those days in school here :P --[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]] 11:00, 12 May 2007 (8:00+)

== Botan vs. Button ==

AnimeSuki thread[[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1102302&highlight=botan#post1102302]]
:I can't wait to see Botan as well ^-^ People seem to think it is Button... but I don't know which is which I found this
::During the Edo period, people started eating the meat of wild boar and called it "botan (peony)". The meat of deer was called "momiji (maple leaf)" and that of the horses was "sakura (cherry blossoms)." In this way the pious Buddhists could pretend to eat as vegetarians....
:source: http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa010307a.htm
:So wonder if it is Botan as in Button, Flower or...pork lol.
:Would make sense with the Botan-Nabe as in the Kyou After Scene the boar is Nabe... Would make sense with Kappei XD when he wants to eat him --Leo_Otaku
::Judging by their conversation... I can safely say that it's Botan (as in food) and not Button :3
::Thanks for pointing that out and giving some info
::Oh wait! I could also be wrong and Kyou really named him Button and the two might just be making "pun" with the name (ボタン) Button :3
::And so my idea divided... in Kyou's perspective... Botan's name can be Button... then, Tomoya made a pun about it using (ぼたん or 牡丹) botan, which could also mean, wild boar meat.
::But Kyou could also say it as Botan, as in peony... a name of a flower... and since Kyou knows that wild boar piglets looks like peony when they're little, it could also mean that she name her as Botan... anyway... I guess, only the creator can answer this question, since I talked about this with a native Japanese and he said that "maybe" it means peony XD--[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]]

==Miscellaneous==

A few questions I'd like to ask, but don't really fit into the talk pages of a particular SEEN:

What pronoun should be used to refer to Botan? It currently switches between he and it, sometimes even within the same sentence.

Should Sunohara be using "she" to refer to Tomoyo before he's convinced that she's actually a girl?

Talk:Clannad:Guidelines

2007-12-29T07:38:02Z

71.202.158.239:

== Tenses ==
Velocity_7 requested I make a section for this on the discussion page.

So what do you guys think about the current rules for tenses? --[[User:Minagi|Minagi]] 22:28, 13 December 2007 (PST)

== Digits, Interjections, thinking words, shouts/screams and action words ==
I would like to clarify on some of the translation guidelines.

Firstly, do we substitute Arabic numerals on the original text for half-width digits (e.g. 20) or their English equivalents (Twenty)? If it had not been decided, I would suggest that we stick to digits for convention, clarity and conciseness. For kanji numerals, I'd rather we use English words.

In the translations I have seen, interjections were mostly substituted beautifully, but there were several crude ones, and some of those were translated in other ways for other scenarios.

May I suggest to translators and editors:

あの, ano -> Um

え, e -> Eh (repeated えs would be Eeeeh etc.)

ああ, aa -> Ya / K' / Yea / Aah (depending on context)

あ, a -> Ah

えっと, etto -> Erm / Err

っ, 'sokuon' -> ' (e.g. 「えっ？」 -> "Eh'?" , but only when the situation allows) (refer to the Yorkshire accent part on glottal stops in Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop])

For those at the end of sentences:

よ, ね, な, ぞ etc. -> huh / not? / (nothing, for when it is an integral part of the sentence, i.e. sounds awkward without it) / reflected in the sentence as

だろう, だろ -> I wonder / I guess / right? / not? / probably / it is probable

I believe the rest have more obvious equivalents in English, and won't have much trouble integrating.

In the topic of screams, as they usually hold no meaning, might I suggest substituting them word for word (Hepburn romanization with kana spelling) with the ー, chouon substituted for a dash, small vowels as their english equivalent (I have thought of substituting large vowels with caps, but wouldn't it lose some aesthetic quality?) and っ with a 'h' where aesthetic standards allow.

For action words that occupy a single line, may I suggest the format as per in the following example, :''もぐもぐ… *mogu mogu, munch munch''

I used the above format for action words in sentences like じっと、そこを見た during my translation draft (which was only at its third day as per this project's founding, despite that I started it near the end of December). However, I find it sloppy when nested in sentences, and I guess it also breaks the flow of the script. Please criticize this suggestions mercilessly.[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:34, 6 February 2007 (PST)

: I agree with most of the conventions used above, albeit with a few minor changes:
: - 'mogu mogu' should just be 'munch, munch'
: - IRJustman and I would like to go with using just words for numbers (e.g., five), unless it comes to maybe 10-yen coins. Not like someone can say "one million yen", right, as opposed to "1,000,000 yen"?
: - screams we'll have to think about, it's kind of hard to romanize say, Sunohara's ひぃぃぃぃぃぃ！！
: - most of the stuff above is freeform, so like you said, will depend on context.
: [[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 10:09, 6 February 2007 (EST)

: Ditto with velocity7. But I think the interjection translations should be guidelines; translators should retain free rein in using alternatives to naturalise/normalise the speech. Same goes for wild random screaming, this should be translator's call?
: More importantly, characters need to sound consistent throughout the game. Either this should be handled by QC, or translators can route-specialise. Or something; i'm new to this game.
: American English, or British English?
: --[[User:Kwok|Kwok]] 05:40, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== Naming ==
May I suggest adding a Female Youth name as a translation for 少女, shoujo, as a name title especially for the first Kotomi scene. At that first meeting, Tomoya was not too fond of her, hence the more formal name (albeit more conventional, in my opinion), even though name titles are not actually supposed to reflect relations.[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:34, 6 February 2007 (PST)

I'm inclined to follow your suggestion too, but will there be space constraints? Also, 'Female Youth' sounds rather detached and unemotional for a guy's thoughts, so would 'Girl' be simpler and sweeter? It's more casual and normalise the scenario that way. Same for shounen; we could call them "Guy".--[[User:Kwok|Kwok]] 05:29, 13 February 2007 (PST)

A bit of trouble with the main arc. Tomoya often refers to Akio as オッサン. Would that be 'Uncle'?--[[User:Kwok|kwok]] 01:46, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

== Punctuation and General Typography ==

In the guidelines page, ellipses were written as '...' (3 periods). However, there exists a special character for groups of 3 ellipses, '…'. This character is also used in the game text. Unless it is due to technical restrictions(which I doubt there is), the second ellipse should be used. That is to distinguish the ellipses from the period following, as per The Chicago Manual of Style[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%A6]. Yes, a period is required after ellipses when writing in English. I would not recommend using a program to substitute periods for this character after translating for fear that it might make some unwanted changes in the text.

There are also other things to take note of. The hyphen at your keyboard is only for hyphens. For dashes, use the following

For a limited range, e.g. '07–15' (haven't encountered any), or prefixing a term e.g. 'pre–World War II', use an en dash '–' (XP users: Alt+0150)

For an open range, e.g. 'Saturday—' an em dash '—'(XP users: Alt+0151)

A word that is cut off halfway (say, when some interrupts your conversation) is denoted by a character more commonly seen in Unicode art (well, it sure isn't ASCII, and it's not Shift-JIS)(part of the box drawing character set). It seems like Key used that character as it did not have gaps when placed consequentially. Long lines are usually multiples of this character too. I would recommend using the horizontal bar '―' (U+2013; ampersand, hash, 8213, semicolon), as it also joins with another itself.

As stated in the previous topic, the chouon is used for creative purposes in shouts and yells. The em dash is an excellent substitution for it.

The full width tilde '～' is used in several instances, like ぐっ～～. Seems like Key used it instead of the more politically correct wave symbol '〜' (they probably didn't know of it's existence). Both are in East Asian character sets. I can't find of any non-Asian character that imitates the full width tilde satisfactorily. Maybe we should default to half width tildes?

There is a quotation dash ⁓ (U+2053; ampersand, hash, 8275, semicolon). However, I currently cannot think of any instance it might be required in the script.
[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 03:05, 13 February 2007 (PST)

:I understand that there is a love for Unicode characters in the script at the moment. However, if you would all please have a look at [http://dev.haeleth.net/rldev/manual.html#htoc26 this website...]
:You'll notice that I am currently using Western encoding to encode the script with rlBabel. At the time of this writing, this is currently the only way to compile the script so that it looks and works fine. In other words, if the character is not supported under CP1251 or ISO-8859-1, it is not very likely to work. This includes all Japanese characters.

:That's the reasoning for my use of "..." at the moment. For all other characters, they will have to be replaced or modified in some way in order to match up with this. I haven't had time to go look back in scripts to fix this, so if you have time, please feel free to fix them.

:--[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]], February 13, 2007, 8:59 AM EST

CP1252 uses the code point 85 for ellipses, which is unassigned in ISO-8859-1. I'm guessing that this was what Haeleth meant by (ISO-8859-1 with extensions). Why not give it a try?

[[User:Jc100|Jc100]] 12:37, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== 創立者祭 ==

A couple of possible translations for 創立者祭:[http://www.japanisdoomed.com/2006/10/01/school-festival/][http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/explore/calendar/november/festival.html]
*school festival (impossible due to SEEN2510)
*Founder's Day
*School Anniversary

Any comments? --[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]]

**I would pick Founder's Day. --[[User:Kwok|kwok]] 00:10, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
***Actually, I would pick School Foundation Day, lol... we have those days in school here :P --[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]] 11:00, 12 May 2007 (8:00+)

== Botan vs. Button ==

AnimeSuki thread[[http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1102302&highlight=botan#post1102302]]
:I can't wait to see Botan as well ^-^ People seem to think it is Button... but I don't know which is which I found this
::During the Edo period, people started eating the meat of wild boar and called it "botan (peony)". The meat of deer was called "momiji (maple leaf)" and that of the horses was "sakura (cherry blossoms)." In this way the pious Buddhists could pretend to eat as vegetarians....
:source: http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa010307a.htm
:So wonder if it is Botan as in Button, Flower or...pork lol.
:Would make sense with the Botan-Nabe as in the Kyou After Scene the boar is Nabe... Would make sense with Kappei XD when he wants to eat him --Leo_Otaku
::Judging by their conversation... I can safely say that it's Botan (as in food) and not Button :3
::Thanks for pointing that out and giving some info
::Oh wait! I could also be wrong and Kyou really named him Button and the two might just be making "pun" with the name (ボタン) Button :3
::And so my idea divided... in Kyou's perspective... Botan's name can be Button... then, Tomoya made a pun about it using (ぼたん or 牡丹) botan, which could also mean, wild boar meat.
::But Kyou could also say it as Botan, as in peony... a name of a flower... and since Kyou knows that wild boar piglets looks like peony when they're little, it could also mean that she name her as Botan... anyway... I guess, only the creator can answer this question, since I talked about this with a native Japanese and he said that "maybe" it means peony XD--[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]]

==Miscellaneous==

A few questions I'd like to ask, but don't really fit into the talk pages of a particular SEEN:
What pronoun should be used to refer to Botan? It currently switches between he and it, sometimes even within the same sentence.
Should Sunohara be using "she" to refer to Tomoyo before he's convinced that she's actually a girl?

User talk:72.64.51.114

2007-12-27T10:30:41Z

71.202.158.239:

Please see the '''[[Clannad:Guidelines|Clannad Guidelines]]''' page for guidelines one ellipsis use (there's supposed to be a space after ellipses).
:Ah, sorry. I'm so used to using no space I didn't even consider it might be different. [[User:72.64.51.114|72.64.51.114]] 19:51, 23 December 2007 (PST)

Are you actually reading through all these SEENs looking for missing quotation marks? Please tell me you have some automated way of finding them...

User talk:71.202.158.239

2007-12-24T07:40:13Z

71.202.158.239:

Note to anyone checking my edits: I know absolutely no Japanese. All my edits are from the point of view of someone trying to make the script sound like what I believe is normal English- if my proposed changes go against what the actual Japanese says, feel free to erase/delete/revert them.

It looks like you've made some good edits. Keep it up, anonymous editor! --[[User:Richard 23|Richard 23]] 21:34, 23 November 2007 (PST)

Right now I'm working on the Fuuko Master SEENs. There's a lot of problems with using more than one tense in a single sentence that I want to fix, but since I don't know any Japanese I have no idea what the correct tense is supposed to be. Therefore, I ask a translator to either fix SEEN1005, where I've marked lines that need fixing with *s, or to post the fixes to the lines here. Once someone's done that, I'll spread the changes to the other Fuuko Master SEENs (there's a lot of repetition between them).

SEEN1005 problems: fixed!

*Thanks for specifying this. The reason why it probably wasn't adjusted is that there's no clear format whether to use present or past tense when the narrator describes what just happened. The ambiguity stems from the fact that a quote just stated was previous, but it is current nonetheless. Like "Hey..." is what I was going to (or about) to say. Or "Hey..." is what I said. That's somewhat past tense but it's current, and since there's also actions that are concurrent (er I threw that word in there randomly) when mentioning the narration, that would be present tense. Right now it's not set in stone but what you say makes sense. I'd implement some now if I weren't doing homeworks. -Amoirsp

Okay, new question. Do we want to make the dialogue that's the same across several SEENs (that is, the parts of Fuuko Master that are literally repeated word-for-word each time) have the same translation each time as well?

*If it's 100% identical, I don't see the issue, go ahead and make such a change (though I wouldn't know which variation would be superior). My problem is that it's hard to find them sometimes, but the change isn't much to argue. Like you said, across several seens, so finding it slightly harder. If it's the same seen that's a bit easier. Since identical line matching and tensing are both not directly based on the context, the edits on it aren't as strict and probably are easier to have variability. As we know, Japanese context in this manner is um, less complicated than English one, and since it's a visual novel, it can be slightly vague as well. -Amoirsp

*Another note on the /b and /u. Although it makes sense that you only are supposed to italicize the word, the reason why the quotation mark was also italicized is because if it is not, then there will be a text overlap between the question mark italicized and the quotation mark not italicized. If the ending punctuation is a period, the size of the period is too small to slant into an overlap, so only question marks and exclamation marks would lead to this. Thus, /u is after the quotation mark in a question or a shout to prevent text override, but it's done before the quotation mark if the ending is a period since there's no overlap thus it doesn't matter. This was the explanation given to me and it makes sense. -Amoirsp

Another question: Is Fuuko's continual use of third person in talking about herself intentional? And should this line from SEEN1005 be modified because of that?

<pre>
<0130> \{Fuuko} "Then Fuuko realized that there was a cup of coffee in front of me."
// \{風子}「気づいたら、目の前にコーヒーが置いてありましたっ」
</pre>

:Right, that would be like, "Then realized that there was a cup of coffee in front of Fuuko." Though because it's in third person, that random adjustment may be less accurate, but the removal of "me" is very likely to implement (or just remove "of me" lol). -Amoirsp

I'm fixing up any of Fuuko's uses of first person as well as the new ellipsis guideline for now. Automated checking is convenient...

Use of いただきます in SEEN 4XXX:
4221 (line 113)
4222 (line 40)
4223 (line 42) This one is different from the last two.

User talk:71.202.158.239

2007-12-24T07:10:33Z

71.202.158.239:

Note to anyone checking my edits: I know absolutely no Japanese. All my edits are from the point of view of someone trying to make the script sound like what I believe is normal English- if my proposed changes go against what the actual Japanese says, feel free to erase them.

It looks like you've made some good edits. Keep it up, anonymous editor! --[[User:Richard 23|Richard 23]] 21:34, 23 November 2007 (PST)

Right now I'm working on the Fuuko Master SEENs. There's a lot of problems with using more than one tense in a single sentence that I want to fix, but since I don't know any Japanese I have no idea what the correct tense is supposed to be. Therefore, I ask a translator to either fix SEEN1005, where I've marked lines that need fixing with *s, or to post the fixes to the lines here. Once someone's done that, I'll spread the changes to the other Fuuko Master SEENs (there's a lot of repetition between them).

SEEN1005 problems: fixed!

*Thanks for specifying this. The reason why it probably wasn't adjusted is that there's no clear format whether to use present or past tense when the narrator describes what just happened. The ambiguity stems from the fact that a quote just stated was previous, but it is current nonetheless. Like "Hey..." is what I was going to (or about) to say. Or "Hey..." is what I said. That's somewhat past tense but it's current, and since there's also actions that are concurrent (er I threw that word in there randomly) when mentioning the narration, that would be present tense. Right now it's not set in stone but what you say makes sense. I'd implement some now if I weren't doing homeworks. -Amoirsp

Okay, new question. Do we want to make the dialogue that's the same across several SEENs (that is, the parts of Fuuko Master that are literally repeated word-for-word each time) have the same translation each time as well?

*If it's 100% identical, I don't see the issue, go ahead and make such a change (though I wouldn't know which variation would be superior). My problem is that it's hard to find them sometimes, but the change isn't much to argue. Like you said, across several seens, so finding it slightly harder. If it's the same seen that's a bit easier. Since identical line matching and tensing are both not directly based on the context, the edits on it aren't as strict and probably are easier to have variability. As we know, Japanese context in this manner is um, less complicated than English one, and since it's a visual novel, it can be slightly vague as well. -Amoirsp

*Another note on the /b and /u. Although it makes sense that you only are supposed to italicize the word, the reason why the quotation mark was also italicized is because if it is not, then there will be a text overlap between the question mark italicized and the quotation mark not italicized. If the ending punctuation is a period, the size of the period is too small to slant into an overlap, so only question marks and exclamation marks would lead to this. Thus, /u is after the quotation mark in a question or a shout to prevent text override, but it's done before the quotation mark if the ending is a period since there's no overlap thus it doesn't matter. This was the explanation given to me and it makes sense. -Amoirsp

Another question: Is Fuuko's continual use of third person in talking about herself intentional? And should this line from SEEN1005 be modified because of that?

<pre>
<0130> \{Fuuko} "Then Fuuko realized that there was a cup of coffee in front of me."
// \{風子}「気づいたら、目の前にコーヒーが置いてありましたっ」
</pre>

:Right, that would be like, "Then realized that there was a cup of coffee in front of Fuuko." Though because it's in third person, that random adjustment may be less accurate, but the removal of "me" is very likely to implement (or just remove "of me" lol). -Amoirsp

I'm fixing up any of Fuuko's uses of first person as well as the new ellipsis guideline for now. Automated checking is convenient...

Use of いただきます in SEEN 4XXX:
4221 (line 113)
4222 (line 40)
4223 (line 42) This one is different from the last two.

User talk:72.64.51.114

2007-12-24T00:21:25Z

71.202.158.239: New page: Please see the '''Clannad Guidelines''' page for guidelines one ellipsis use (there's supposed to be a space after ellipses).

Please see the '''[[Clannad:Guidelines|Clannad Guidelines]]''' page for guidelines one ellipsis use (there's supposed to be a space after ellipses).

User talk:71.202.158.239

2007-11-25T02:49:26Z

71.202.158.239:

User talk:71.202.158.239

2007-11-24T23:08:29Z

71.202.158.239:

It looks like you've made some good edits. Keep it up, anonymous editor! --[[User:Richard 23|Richard 23]] 21:34, 23 November 2007 (PST)

Right now I'm working on the Fuuko Master SEENs. There's a lot of problems with using more than one tense in a single sentence that I want to fix, but since I don't know any Japanese I have no idea what the correct tense is supposed to be. Therefore, I ask a translator to either fix SEEN1005, where I've marked lines that need fixing with *s, or to post the fixes to the lines here. Once someone's done that, I'll spread the changes to the other Fuuko Master SEENs (there's a lot of repetition between them).

SEEN1005 problems:
<pre>
<0002> She stops and turns around as I called her.*
//"Stops" and "turns" are present tense, "called" is past.
// 俺の呼びかけに足を止めて、振り返る。

<0029> I stick the note on her forehead with a scotch tape.*
// Needs to be either "with a piece of scotch tape" or just "with scotch tape"
// その額にぺたりとセロハンテープで貼り紙を貼る。

<0050> I jump back as she returns to reality, and distanced myself, pretending I didn't know anything.*
// "jump" and "returns" are present tense, while "distanced" and "didn't" are past tense.
// 風子が我に返る。俺は飛び退き、距離を置いて、平静を装う。

<0073> We turn a corner, then I shut her inside a narrow path and went back to the corridor alone.*
// "turn" is present tense and "went" is past tense. "shut" can be either.
// 角を曲がって、狭い通路の先に夢想状態の風子を押し込めると、俺はひとり廊下に舞い戻る。

<0079> \{Fuuko} "There are lots of urinals lined up that were unfamiliar!"*
// "are" is present tense, "were" is past tense.
// \{風子}「見慣れない形の便器がたくさん並んでましたっ！」

<0099> \{Fuuko} "It feels really good, but then Fuuko noticed that there's a man with a beard right beside, and he gave a smile!"*
// "feels" is present tense, but "noticed" and "gave" are past tense (I'm not sure if there's can stand for "there was" as well as "there is").
// "gave a smile" also sounds awkward in English, so consider doing something there too.
// \{風子}「とても、気持ちよかったんですが、隣に髭を生やした大人の人がいて、風子を見ながら微笑んでいました！」

<0160> She realize that the one standing in front of her is not me.*
// "realize" should be either "realizes"(present tense) or "realized"(past tense).
// 正面に立つのが俺でなくなっていることに気づく。

<0190> I wave at the male student, and gave him a sign that it's alright now.*
// "wave" and "it's" are present tense, "gave" is past tense.
// 俺は男子生徒にもういいと手で合図した。

<0191> We exchanges places as Fuuko looks down and placed her head in her hands.*
// "looks" is present tense, "placed" is past tense.
// "exchanges" should be either "exchange" (present tense) or "exchanged" (past tense).
// 風子が頭を抱えて顔を伏せてる間に、入れ代わる。

</pre>More to come-

*Thanks for specifying this. The reason why it probably wasn't adjusted is that there's no clear format whether to use present or past tense when the narrator describes what just happened. The ambiguity stems from the fact that a quote just stated was previous, but it is current nonetheless. Like "Hey..." is what I was going to (or about) to say. Or "Hey..." is what I said. That's somewhat past tense but it's current, and since there's also actions that are concurrent (er I threw that word in there randomly) when mentioning the narration, that would be present tense. Right now it's not set in stone but what you say makes sense. I'd implement some now if I weren't doing homeworks. -Amoirsp

User talk:71.202.158.239

2007-11-24T22:40:18Z

71.202.158.239: