Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Hidan no Aria Archived

2013-08-14T17:49:02Z

LB Kasen: /* Vol. 11, and the issue of JP/CN/EN translations. */ new section

== Translation/Editing Board ==

Hi! I've finally finished translating Volume 10 Chapter 1. Guys, please help me edit. I don't think I did a good job though.

I'm currently working on Volume 10 Chapter 3, after I finish this chapter (it'll take about half a week), I will head on to the Afterword, and then you guys can read it :D

People who are worrying about Volume 11 to 14, please bear with us. As of now, many translators seem to be dormant. I think only Hiyono and I are working on it. And apparently Hiyono has ceased his operations temporarily, though he still roams in Baka-Tsuki once in a while.

Also, this Discussion Topic is for everyone who is translating/editing to congregate. Of course, if you want to ask for our progress, you can.

[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 03:32, 28 June 2013 (CDT)

If you guys are doing CN->EN I'd like to join in; if there's any editing external to B-T, that too. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 01:27, 14 July 2013 (CDT)

If you can, wait no more, start helping out. I've ceased my operations temporarily because it was kinda lonely. [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 02:09, 14 July 2013 (CDT)

Okay. I just wanted to ask who edited the main page for HoA, because I haven't finished the Volume10 Afterword. I'm going to finish it tomorrow, so stay tuned. (After I complete it, you might not see me for a week, I'm reading Baka to Tesuto to Syokanju.) [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 09:12, 17 July 2013 (CDT)

It's a wiki, so you can always just check the page history. For example, in this case, this is the answer to your question: [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hidan_no_Aria:Volume10&action=history]
[[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] ([[User talk:Hiyono|talk]]) 11:14, 17 July 2013 (CDT)

I have joined as an editor for this project, simply because I like HnA and would like to give back to the HnA community. I will do regular editing of full chapters at a time, every 1-3 days. --[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 09:11, 19 July 2013 (CDT)

Grrrrrr, exams are coming so I got banned from BT and my raws on my PC, so I think I'll have to go MIA till September.... Sorry guys. [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 04:45, 26 July 2013 (CDT)

== Translation ==
Are there anyone who is currently traslating volume 11-14?

I've been wondering... did the translators working on this put it on hiatus? becuase ive noticed that for the longest time, there has been no progress
Yo... the author of this series... he uses a pen name right? He's not actually named "middle school" right?

Hey I've been editing lately. I've found Kinji's last name spelled Tohyama and Tooyama, we should keep his name uniform at least. I'm gonna change them all to Tohyama, Tooyama is awkward for me for some reason. -blackfaia

nice novel, with a monthly manga and a coming anime

I wanted to compliment the translators on the speed and quality of their translation. You guys are dropping these volumes one by one, thank for your hard work.

WHERE ARE THE TRANSLATORS XD WHY WON'T THEY REPLY! WHY WONT THEY LET ME TRANSLATE >_<!!!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 08:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not just continue translating until they reply?

start translating from ch 3 so you are sure you won't translate the same thing^^

Mr. Seoulfighter, please lend us your godly powers and translate this LN, thank you very much ~Ghost

Fine I'll start picking this up soon since I've received no contact from the other translators, and realized it's never been updated. but right now I have to find a job to help pay for college -.-... my dad wasted my tuition on my stepmother... WASTED 35,000$ on her jewelry and clothes(tears)!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 02:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:That's sad. Sometimes I wonder how parents can be this cruel and selfish... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
::If this happened to me, I'd give those parents of mine a MASSIVE chewing out. I mean seriously, WTF? Well, good luck to you though Seoulfighter.

you have my sympathy Seoulfighter-san. Your tuition fee must be the top priority because it is the job of the parents to make sure their children graduate from school... Thanks again ~ Ghost

don't worry abouts TL and think about yourself, Real Life has top priority^^(even if this will make us a little sad)

I got contacted by the original translator, and Undying told me that his hard drive got wiped so he won't be working on this project. I guess for now, while I wait for a reply from the places I applied to I'll do some translating.

As for my parents if I tried to chew them out my dad would start a Socratic Seminar about how my line of logic is flawed and his is correct this lasts for 3 HOURS and can go up to 6 if I argue... my mom is poor, and my dad sold my car(My dad had 3 cars one of which he had originally planned on giving to me.) and gave that money to my sister.
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 18:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Your mom is poor? Step-mom or real mom?

::My Real mom who has a job... and my step-mom who is leeching off my father... both are poor. - seoulfighter

:::I get the feeling that you don't really like your stepmom...

children suffered because of their irresponsible parents.... Hang-on seoulfighter ~ Ghost

Your dad doesnt like you (anymore)? You haven't made him angry, did you? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
^^Your confidence made me lol. Either his father doesn't like him now, or his father never liked him... I will cry now.

lol No my dad never said he doesn't like me. He says he loves me like all his children =.=... which is meaningless considering all of us were kicked out to accommodate my stepmother... As for what I did to piss him off. He asked me during college to be a dog that just studies and stay in my room, and listen to every command he gives me =.=. What would YOU do if your parents said those words to you... Then said they only have your best interest in mind...
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 06:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all parents' words are correct, they are also human who commit mistakes. Have you talked about how you feel with your father? Maybe you and your father misunderstood each other. Misunderstanding might cause great conflict on the future. ~ Ghost

I have talked to him sat down face to face and tried to sort it out. The only thing that ended up happening is that he said I'm being illogical. He said he couldn't understand why I can't just listen to everything he says and have faith that every decision he's making for me is the best for me =.=. I'll start translating some more to blow off some steam >_<!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Man, your life's almost like a mix between Hayate No Gotoku and Cinderalla, you have my sympathy. ~ Aussie Curry.

wow... just finished reading the last chapter of volume one... I must say... chapter 5 is basically as long as the first 4 chapters combined... I'll refrain from giving spoilers but that was really an unexpected twist that I should have seen coming...

its almost a month or more since the last update..... any news? This and <sword art online> made me craving for more LOL ~ghost

Last time I checked, Spadey was approximately 42% done. Expect chapter 5 to be completed at least by the end of this month, if not the next.
--[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 05:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want, I can give you some spoilers on both this and SAO --[[User:Eveonder|Eveonder]] 05:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

ow thanks for the update! and about the spoiler... thanks but I will wait for the complete chapter ^^ --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]]

did he used the word dog?REAlly? wow i know who is in the (hell)list--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Here i go again and asking for the status LOL --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]] 10:35 , 15 October 2010 (GMT + 8:00)

Since the manga release at snail pace....I am waiting for the last chapter here... [[User:xenocross|xenocross]]

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Summary of previous discussion: Translator is trying to go to school. Has problems. Will gambatte. Our heartfelt approval.
--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 20:28, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

--I don't know how else to contact translators of this series, so I'll post here. Seeing as the anime adaption is coming out in around a week, I'm guessing there will be a lot more views of this series. As such, I wouldn't mind if the translators spit out a roughly translated version of the next few volumes, I have 2+ hours a day I can spend fixing up English, I can probably revise a chapter a day if need be. --[[User:Asteradragon|Asteradragon]] 8:52, 6 March 2011 (EST)

--Speed translating is an insult to the craft. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 21:55, 10 April 2011 (UCT)

Only if it's done horribly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:01, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

The anime is out now.. thats what brought me here. If you do decide to do a fast translation I would like to add that I can also edit anything you put out. -blackfaia

Vol 8 ?

Are their any plans to continue translating this series? Because it seems volume 8 and 9 in particular are almost done but their hasn't been any updates in quite some time...

Yo anyone want Vol 14? ISBN978-4-8401-4932-7 http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/bunkoj/book_detail/945 - Sexy

We need volume 8 and 9, to have pdf versions since they are finished [[User:Zeru|Zeru]] ([[User talk:Zeru|talk]]) 00:36, 23 January 2013 (CST)

...Look, all the pdfs are done by fans. BT doesn't have a staff per say. Bottom line, do your own pdfs, or wait for a fan to do up one.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] ([[User talk:Teh Ping|talk]]) 07:55, 23 January 2013 (CST)

==The Anime==

The Anime is starting today or tomorrow, does anyone have some hope for it? --[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 12:40, 14 April 2011 (UCT)

Slightly disappointing, but they do have to condense a lot of things in anime, so I'm not going to be too critical - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:13, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I can't say I disagree, but so far it doesn't look to bad. Though I have to admit I don't think Aria's voice is quite right, it just feels slightly wrong.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 18:28, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

A bit too cutesy for my taste, but that's Kugyuu for you - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

But the seiyu voice fits. I did think Aria's mannerisms were a lot similar to Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, but they went even further and added a dash of Nagi from Hayate no Gotoku, Aria's voice could not be in better hands since Kugimiya-san did both. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I don't know, it just seemed a bit too "squeeky" or a little too grating to fit with the character, at least that is what I think from reading the first 3 books.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 21:42, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

そうだった。She's described as having a Seiyuu like voice, so they can't go wrong there. XD However, I did think her voice would be slightly lower, possibly a more Shana-like tone. Anyways, do you guys like the OP/ED - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 22:00, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

My Opinions: OP = 3.5/5 , ED 2/5. Some parts of the OP sounded similar to Asura Cryin's OP (to me at least), loved that one. Fav. part from ep 1 (+ -)"Aaaa, Watashi no magazine!!!". BTW how far do you think the anime will cover the story? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 04:01, 17 April 2011 (UCT)

Shows ended now and it seems the DVD/Blu-Ray of vol.1 of the anime did not sell well enough for a second season so far. Thinking I am gonna have to stick to just reading the story here.[[User:ROOMA4HELL|ROOMA4HELL]] 04:39, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

== Picture Positioning ==

I'd like to discuss and debate about the picture positioning in the light novel chapter parts. Currently the pictures are being placed in such an order as to mimic the light novel position. (ie: text page ends picture page begins). However I believe that this is problematic to be used ''here'' because in reading a light novel one can see the picture page as well as the text page side by side when they open onto that page thus allowing easy comparison between the line and it's corresponding picture. But here, due to the layout being continuous it does not allow the corresponding to occur so smoothly. Instead the reader passes the line that the picture corresponds to and finds the image 10 to 20 lines below that right next to text lines that have either little or absolutely no relation to the picture at all. I acknowledge the argument that this is how the author wished it to be, however I wish to make a point that this was because of the very basic format of all books. No matter what page you open to, unless you fold one side to the back there will always be two pages before you. So I have two ideas to give here:
# Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them.
# Mark the end of each page with a <nowiki>----</nowiki> to insert a line signifying the end of a novel page(like demonstrated below) and making the pictures bigger so they may seem page sized as well.

----

:3. Make no changes and let the text and pictures remain unmatched.

Wow that's three. LOL. Personally, I believe the first idea is the best even if it does go against the original ordering. Does anyone have any objections and explanations as to why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UCT)

<s>I'll go with the first option. Initially, I thought that the picture placement was just some kind or bug or error or something. It didn't really occur to me that that was intentional. ;) Anyway, it will help the reader identify the scene and image better, since the picture is placed beside or near the accompanying text.</s> My ignorance is showing, sorry about that. Anyway, I read (or looked at a page, trying to find a word I know) the source and the images are pretty much around where they are here, the only difference being the format (page-to-page vs continuous). Cross-referenced other series (specifically ZnT) and the editing is the same. So even though it's not spot on, it is how the page is intended w/ the only difference being format. So I guess, 3rd option? [[User:Seyrine|s13]] 16:05, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not putting the pictures anywhere else. Each author chooses where to put their pictures for a very specific reason. If you think it doesn't correspond well, then minimize a picture of the photo and read it side by side.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:34, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

The OP is not incorrect that you can see the pictures side by side when you're reading it, but I prefer to just put it in at the end of the page, because, well...that's just how I see it. Putting it at the beginning would not necessarily be incorrect, but it's nice to read something before you look at the picture for it, which is the author's intent. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:09, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

What you are saying ''is'' partly true. But only in cases where the picture relating to the text is on the ''backside'' of the related text page. When it is on the page on the side it is obviously there so that the picture and the text could be easily referenced. Even here because of the picture's size it can be made to look as though it is right next to the page. That is what I believe the author's original intention is. I'm not wrong am I? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 17:16, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Rather I would say that because of the transition from side-by-side to continuous format the resulting positions of the pictures are something the author had not originally wanted, wouldn't you agree? As such shouldn't we choose from point 1 or 2 and not 3 regardless of how it's being done in the other light novels pages? Isn't it only correct that we do this? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Finally from what you have been saying, it seems that you want the format to be as follows:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

but instead it's '''''actually''''' like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''text'' '''page3''' ''picture'' '''page2'''

'''Note:''' Point 1 would make it like this:

''text'' '''page1''' ''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

whereas Point 2 would show it like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
----
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
----
''text'' '''page3'''

So which format would you prefer. According to this, even the current format is actually against the original author's wishes, isn't it?  [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 12:43, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

give it a few days before concluding that people are not answering. some of us are busy people in RL. besides, not everyone watches the pages, or are able to sift through the flood of "recent changes" to find their object of interest. bring it to the forums in that case. begging your pardon, as a translator, I think this is so trivial that I won't even waste time debating or discussing it. discussing stuff like terminologies such as the butei articles is more constructive than a few image placements, and there are very few indeed; begging your pardon again. if you really want to, you can set up a poll in the forums, but that would only make sense if a lot of people are actually concerned with this topic of interest. whatever the case, the supervisor (or translators) makes the final decision. on a side note, given that this is relatively popular project, nobody posting means no one cares about this? and sorry for my typing because I hate caps hahaha :3 --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 13:17, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

No problem. I do understand and it was my intention to wait. Plus the purpose of this topic is to persuade the editors and as stated in my previous post ''(see hidden text)'' the comment was just for motivation and I apologized to those who would take it the wrong way, finally I didn't actually say anything wrong, only laughed ''(evilly yes but only laughed)'', LOL. Besides, if my intention was not to persuade through discussion and debating the issue I wouldn't have started this in the first place. Trivial, it might be on face, but I still think it is worth discussing because of it's deeper implications. Plus if nobody cares doesn't that mean that any format is applicable? I think that is wrong, which is why I wish to confirm others views on this. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:46, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

I didn't say that you are saying something wrong. It's just my opinion that it's a trivial thing, just as it's in your opinion that it's important. Different opinions that's all. No right or wrong. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 14:06, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

True. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:49, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Yes indeed. Going over the previous posts I see that this is indeed a difference in opinion. Clarity is indeed needed. My opinion is that of a single reader, what's yours? Oh and we might need other readers' opinions as well, after all I am not the only one or a representative of all the readers. No, not at all. Thus more input from both sides would be appreciated. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:42, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Hmm... I wouldnt see any reason to do it different as it is done in the other translations... - aka text page / picture page / text page, but if you like you could put the corresponding line also under the picture (like it was done for Haruhi) to get a matching effect... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

Yeah that is being done here and there. But it still feels weird to scroll down a whole screen or two just to get to the picture that matches the text, especially when in the book the text-picture pages are side-by-side '''(See the layout example a few posts back for details)''. ''(After checking)'' See, the picture's still side-by-side even here, just with the wrong text page, so to speak. I'm proposing we correct that. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step but if we don't take the first step how will the journey begin? So why not take the first step when the result is an improvement? If it's a problem of time consumption while revising previous chapters then can't you let me take care of that detail. That way the translators won't have to stop their work. I can do it all within a few hours, albeit a bit roughly in the cases where the picture does not have labels. But even so. It's actually better than setting it next to the wrong page start. As said before I believe setting the picture, next to the page, after the one it is meant for (ie:

'''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text'' | '''page2''': ''picture''

) is not how the author wished it, though this is just my view as a reader. But it does hold some water, no? We could even switch the ordering around to make it even closer to the original format like so:

'''page2''': ''picture'' | '''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text''

What do you think? Oh and the offer, of me doing it if translators too busy translating, still stands. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 01:50, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

My opinion: remove the stupid text under the pictures and "Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them."

That's how I do it for every series [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 07:53, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not too busy translating, I'm too busy reading other things. Just because I translate this fanatically doesn't mean I don't have a mountain of other things to read/watch. As it stands, I'm practicing my Japanese by reading Mayo Chiki!, which is kind of a weird order, but that's irrelevant.

My opinion: I don't care enough to argue about it. If you're so horribly against putting it down there, then change it, but as I translate, I'm going to keep doing it the way it is currently. If you want to change it, then just do so after I put it in. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:09, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

That's fine with me. So to confirm, I can set the picture next to the related text while revising and there won't be an edit war over it, right? Cause that's really scary. This one time... Oh well that's... well, forget that. Anyway, I have permission to match text with pictures while revising, right? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, can I? Can I? Can I? Pleeeease? ''(Hoppity, hoppity, hop)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:42, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

At this point, I couldn't care less. If such a trivial thing irks you so badly, then by all means, go ahead and change it. I certainly won't be wasting time and effort to change it back. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:05, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Thank you! (Nyari) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:14, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

== Fuuma's speech to be changed==

I would like to change all of Fuumas "I" to "Oneself"/"myself" or "this one". Anything along those lines represent the "Sessha" she uses to refer to herself.
I would like opinions on this matter, for while "Myself/oneself" is my favorite, it should be the most easily-read one that prevails.

--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 22:59, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&p=82653#p82653

Forum backlink.

--------
An example would make things more clear. Though personally I think it a pretty good idea. It does conform to the ancient/honorable/humble manner of speaking. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:46, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

<nowiki>*</nowiki>Facepalm*. You know what, let's just change all of Patra's "I"s to "My Majesty". Also, "Myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Me myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "This unworthy one hasn't been able to meet with you for a while."

I'm not budging. This is ''not'' open to discussion. How does a servant refer to himself in front of his lord in ''English''? "Your lord master, your servant hasn't grown enough crops this year."?. That's what somebody says when they speak to God. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

--------

Yoake also has a point. But check this page out as well. It might help. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeism Illeism]. Just keeping an open mind here. I mean fansubbing translators usually do try and keep the Japanese manner of speech in their work rather than completely going English. The exotic manner is rather appealing. Just a thought though. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

I have an idea of how to completely retain the meaning. I write warawa or sessha and then link to the wikipedia page. That sound good? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:28, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

That is also a good idea. AH! Found it! This link would be better: ''http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns''. For Archaic references like ''sessha'' appending ''#Archaic_personal_pronouns'' would help ''(subsection link)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:36, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I was actually joking because that's amazingly retarded and nobody really cares enough, but, whatever floats your boat. Good luck fitting warawa in when I used me rather than I to refer to her. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, I'm being rude on purpose. I feel that the English language has no way of showing how bad of an idea I think this is if I don't resort to vulgarity. Rather, 'better; is a comparative phrase, and since I never actually mentioned a noun to which to compare to, a better word would be 'good'. At any rate, これは全然ひどい、全然無意味、全然迷惑なことって絶対変わらず。 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:47, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I see. But you also do have a point. Not everyone would be able to understand right off the bat that way. Oh well. By the way they actually did used to say ''"My liege, your servant requests permission to withdraw."'' or ''"Your servant would like to beg forgiveness for his tardiness."'' Rankings in the Royal court did actually effect the manner of speech greatly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:54, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't make Fuuma say 'your student'. Please. Please. Please. Please. Fansubbers can translate how they want, the seas could boil and the Earth would crack, but don't make a ninja call herself 'your student' in front of Kinji. There's an t/l note already, can we let it go? I'll make a concession and expand on it as well as adding a link.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 20:03, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Naze nara... kore wa zenzen hidoi, zenzen muimi, zenzen meiwaku na koto ka? LOL. Jodan desu. Yes explaining in more detail in the Translation Notes and References pages is also another good idea/option. Actually I think it is the best one yet. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 20:10, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

-----------
There is one short reference. But seriously Yoake, please consider what I am proposing seriously.
I'd like to stress that I am not attacking your translations here; I'm giving an opionion, not demanding word-by-word translations. If this insults you, I apologize for not putting it in kinder words.
But I won't have you being rude without properly hearing me out. It is demeaning.

Now, back to the matter itself:

There are archaic english that would properly convey the nuance of her speech; and I belive it would be worth the effort to try getting it across.
Now, I don't want to be harsly spoken, and I respect you work Yoake - In fact I really enjoy it. I just think we should be able to work something out to make it more along the authors intentions.I myself am not a native speaker, but I can see how:

"Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," should be written as "One has not been able to meet Instuctor for a while", reflecting the inpersonal part of sessha, and the second-part reference to oneself. Hasn't and the like are actually a good idea in my opinion, but they can be written to make a point of reflecting speech-patterns instead of as a rule.
As for Patra, aren't a royal "We" sufficient to reflect her nature coupled with a notice in the text?

In fact, most light novels translations fail on this part and I think everyone here could try to figure something out together instead of bashing the notion. Is that too much to ask for from a free wiki?
I sure don't think so.

Is this insufficient? I think that we should be able to see merit in this proposal.

With respect / --[[User:Novium|Novium]] 00:07, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Well done, great explanation. Strong points. What do you think Yoake? There is ''some'' weight in the arguments is there not? Indeed such ways of speaking have been used in ancient literature as well as medieval times. And yes, in English the use of the words "We" and "Us" are plural forms however they were used by royals to refer to themselves (them being the leader/representative of their people probably brought on that effect). The use of plural form is regarded as a sign of great respect in many languages. That is a hard fact. Humility also meant referring to oneself in the third-person. The arguments are indeed sound. Are they not? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:27, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

A famous example of the use of "One" and "Oneself" for self referral is the character of Andrew Martin in the film [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicentennial_Man_%28film%29 Bicentennial Man]. It chronicles the story of a robot and his journey into humanity. Before being ordered by his master to use "I" Andrew referred to himself as "one" or "oneself" as originally programmed to do so. It's a wonderful and beautiful story, you guys should try seeing it sometime. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 02:35, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

No.

Third person referral has a completely different meaning in Japanese. Since there is no equivalent for one, third person referral through using their names such as Riko saying "Riko" instead of I is a very feminine style of speech. As such, I'm not willing to use any third person. Go look at the forum. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I've read the forum posts. Now I understand why "One" or "Oneself" is not used here for "Sessha". It might be equivalent in some respects but not exactly. I see. I learned something new. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:50, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I can agree with the royal "we". That's it. = [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:14, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

See, discussions can actually help improve oneself if you see them in a certain way. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:10, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I am not a translator or even an editor and therefore have less value than the dirt on your shoes. But in light of my self-deprecation I hope you will accept my opinion. I agree with Yoake. Even someone referring to themselves as 'we' is a little weird to read in English, since it is not something that anyone ever does, unless they are a faggot. (forgive me) Imagine someone calling themselves we... If you want to create a suitably "exotic" atmosphere I think including suffixes after names, and leaving some nouns untranslated (but obviously in romaji) is good enough. -blackfaia

That's only because there are very few countries nowadays where kings and queens reign in full power (England has royalty but they're only figureheads). However, the royal terms "we" and "us" have been historically proven to be used. Pity English doesn't have honorific terms for the word "you" other than "Thee". Just an info tip. Not trying to revive this talk. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 03:45, 28 May 2011 (UCT)

== Question about Translation Notes ==

Why are the translation notes and references on a separate page when they can be even more easily shown as a list at the bottom of each chapter via use of the '''ref''' tag? It's so bothersome to have to either navigate to a new page or open it in a new tab or window just to see a small note. Using the '''ref'''erence tag allows for in-page navigation (ie: new page doesn't need time to load, screen just zeros in on the reference or back to text ''without'' page loading). So why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

Well its ''even'' more bothersome if you have to look up these references yourself. HnA is a light novel that has a substantial number of references and allusions to famous people, furthermore it is up to the translators creed. Also how is it that difficult to click on translation notes that simply opens a new page? Unless the readers are just being lazy. This really seems like a trivial matter to me. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 16:47, 23, May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well. Readers '''are''' lazing around, according to the elderly. LOL. But seriously, ''as a reader'' I would prefer having the translation notes at the bottom of the page rather than opening a new page. It might be lazy but it is ''faster'' in loading/navigation. If it's a problem of too much trouble I'd be happy to do it for you guys. I just think making a '''whole''' new/separate page for those notes is ''wasteful''. "A new page + data" takes more space than simply "data at the bottom of an already existing page". [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:36, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, it might be useful when you transform it unto a PDF format. Speaking of PDF, can someone go edit V2? [[User:Kira0802|きら]] 23:06, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

I can edit HnA volume 2 since I have nothing else to do atm Kira0802. Here's my opinion as a reader: just leave it as it is, this is such a trivial matter. If the reader wants such high-quality material, then they could learn the language and simply buy the light novels. Also, note that some translators do not bother making said these references at all, whether its the translation notes or foot notes at the bottom. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 00:10, 24, May 2011 (UCT)

Sorry, but learning the language takes years of hard work. Plus not every country has access to places that actually sell the light novels. The reason people come to online light novel, manga and anime sites is ''because'' they '''don't want''' to wait. But even if it does seem like a trivial thing, there are benefits to it:

# People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)
# Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)
# Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing.
# Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')

I'd be happy if you can give me points that can legitimately favor leaving the translation notes on a separate page. If it's just because of the trouble of doing the work I said I can do it. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Instead of worrying about the convenience of foot notes vs translation notes, editing takes priority. There are still a number of HnA volumes and chapters that still needs editing and proofreading. That should be your first responsibility as an editor. Although if you still feel so strongly about this issue, then its best to take it to the forums. The translators and supervisors get the last say in regards to this issue. [[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 17:31, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Here's my suggestion. If you're so bothered by this, Zero, then we can make a short reference at the bottom. If you want a more detailed, then we'll use the TL note&ref. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 18:07, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Let's look at the different points:

"1. People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)" -> the page with the translation's note are only text, it's really small.

"2. Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)" -> if it's '''well done''', you can easily go back and forth between the two. I know it's not the case right now but the editors should learn how to do it, it's not that hard.

"3. Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing." -> it's not the translator's job but the editor's job.

"4. Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')" -> who cares?

Anyway you can look at every BT projects and I'm almost sure that all of them put reference notes on a separate page and personally I like it this way. I don't want to see tl notes who pollute the bottom of the page of the translation. So if you want an argument then it's aesthetic, and I always privilege it. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 18:45, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

[[Sword Art Online]] doesn't and I think it looks good. But as to your counters:

# Even if the page is small it ''still'' takes time to load. Time which could be further shortened by using the ref tag. The ref tag ''exists'' for this reason.
# Why bother doing something the more complex way when you can do it the easier way. Oh... and there is no way to make a backlink to the referring text unless you actually make subsections in the chapters when using different pages for the translation notes (Something that will mess up the natural ordering of the chapter). But ref tagging allows '''not only''' to generate an automatic link ''to the note'' but a ''backlink'' to the referring text. Ref tagging is a legit and popular way to add reference notes, used in all wikias and wikipedia sites as well. This site seems to be a model of those and ref tags are here as well. So why not use it??? Furthermore it will allow for a more interactive experience. People can scroll down to the references and use the back link to check the referring text as they see fit. (ie: using the link for reference 1 but then catching sight of the next reference note 2 and using the backlink to check the referred text for ''that'' note. Not everyone just reads through the whole thing once, you know).
# Translation notes are the translator's job. But that's not even a valid point. So what if it was the editor's job. I'm not talking about external links here like names like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan Genghis Khan], I'm talking mainly about the translation notes that should normally appear at the bottom of the page for easy referral and its links <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki>. I'm saying ref tagging makes not only the translator but the editor's job easier by taking the linking job off their hands. So why not use it? Plus the <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki> are quite obviously a mimicry of the referral system. That's how the referral links are shown.
# "Who cares" is definitely not a valid argument. Isn't it always better to strive for advancement? Such terms only seek to arrest making something better. Why not just open your mind to the possibilities rather than closing it. I do have good and valid points. Don't shoot them down with such terms, it sounds wrong.

Finally I apologize if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack. That was not my intention. I only wished for something that actually allows for an improvement to the current system. Well mainly it is the backlinking. But it also is true that it saves website space, is that not a good thing? Saving space means more data can be saved, no? Well basically we will only be the space of the page container that will be reduced but every little bit helps, does it not? And complex coding can be avoided, is that not better? All one has to do is write so: <nowiki><ref>Enter translation note here</ref></nowiki> where the text that should refer is; instead of writing the external link <nowiki>[http://www.baka-tsuki.com/???]</nowiki> and then writing the translation notes in the page it refers to. Give it a thought, which process is more complex??? Also I don't thing any two humans have the exact same aesthetic sense. Why not think about the benefits of the ref system. And tell me of the benefits of the current system. I'm sure there must be some. I always concede when there are more benefits for using another system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:04, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Also there is one more point I'd like to make, though I'm not 100% sure about it. I think that the ref system is properly transferred during the use of template insertions like compiling into Full Text pages. I'm sure that problem was addressed during the development of the ref system. Though we might have to run some tests to make sure. But hey, it will solve the problem in the full text version's references if I'm right, right? Though I would like to point out that I not 100% sure about it. Maybe 85%. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:11, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Okay I just checked SAO's [[Sword_Art_Online:Volume_4]] page, the references '''do''' transfer seamlessly. That's point 5 for the ref system (100% sure now). Come on I'm sure there must be some positive points for letting the current system stay. No system is without benefits. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:20, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Hummmm....It starts to become a bit heated. So I recommend you to post it in the forums. Of course, posting politely will be asked. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 23:24, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, you're right. I apologize for that. But you know. I'm not asking for a full change in the whole website. Just recommending a change in Hidan no Aria's pages. If everyone believes that there are valid reasons for the system to stay this way then that is fine with me as well. I just want to know the reasons and feel that they are valid enough. I proposed this system not because I like or dislike it but because I sincerely believe that the ref system is better than the current one. That's why I gave the four... oops five now, reasons that I felt were beneficial to everyone. All of my reasons are legit. They actually do help better the site. I'm not too familiar with forums though so, if you really do want to take it there, it's fine so long as you provide a link for me. I just want this discussion to be resolved by professionally discussing the pros and cons of both systems. Not personal like or dislike. I'm fine with things being the way they are, I just need to be persuaded that there are better reasons for it to stay like this. That's all. It's just that no one is actually bringing forth any pros for the current system so far. There must be some if people prefer it, right? But I won't take reasons like "It's too much hard work or bothersome to change things now." I've already said I'm willing to do ''all'' the work if the ref system is implemented (I'm a ''really'' hard worker). Also ''one'' reason such as it won't look good is not enough. You have to have at least as many points as I do. (Tension breaker: If thou wishest to dissuade me, telleth me what advantages the current system hath. LOL.) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:24, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

@Zero I think what some of them meant is that Editing takes priority, so can the editors fix the English first?

@Vaelis Well actually, I'm in the process of changing my projects from Translator's Notes page to using "ref"s. All my new translations use "ref"s. ^_^

Just to share my experiences, initially I didn't like it because I have less control on the formatting. I used to use a separate page and provide back links to navigate back to the page the reader was on. But I found that the back links will work wrongly on the FULL TEXT version. Of course, I can use some programming tricks and some of the new wiki's extensions to overcome this maybe, but using "references" solve this problem easily, since I put my "Translator's Notes header" and <nowiki><references/></nowiki> under <nowiki><noinclude></noinclude></nowiki> at the footer. The FULL TEXT version will then not have reincludes of the "References", and I can just add the <nowiki><references/></nowiki> at the bottom of the FULL TEXT page easily. The backlinks are generated automatically. Another trivial advantage is that I can use the "name" id to share the same reference across a page (though normally I don't do that). Oh yeah, when I read using my tablet over a intermittent 3G connection, I'd prefer not to open a separate page. But the key issue I wanted to solve is the problem of lacking seamless backlinks from the notes. You can check out [[Itsuka Tenma no Kuro Usagi#itsuten_v1|Itsuten Volume 1]] or [[Densetsu no Yūsha no Densetsu#daiden vol1|Daiden Volume 1]] on how I utilized it. ^_^ --[[User:Larethian|larethian]] 01:27, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I agree editing takes priority. I am working side by side the posted translation to fix spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors. I even put in many of the external links that others miss. I'm saying I can do both jobs. That's just how much of a hard worker I am. And yeah. I had seen the backlink problem in the full text version. It comes due to having two reference lists, one the full pages own generated one, the second from the chapter pages themselves. I had already known that the '''noinclude''' tag makes sure that the text encapsulated is not shown when the page is encapsulated in another using <nowiki>{{Insert page name here}}</nowiki>. So I had thought that that would solve the problem. I actually have a long history of wikipedia and wiki editing spanning 5 years, and templates are my expertise. I'm glad there is someone in my support. Thanks. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:36, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I leave it to the editors, but unless I take the time to figure out this wiki works, (I'm not,) I'm going to continue to use off-page references. Actually, to tell the truth, your attitude makes me want to stab my eyeballs out. Not for any particular reason. Don't feel obliged to care, either. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 09:05, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Now, now, I agree I have suggested more than a few changes, but I had zero, and I mean 0%, ill intentions. And using the ref tag is not that hard. It will make your job easier, Yoake. So don't be so stubborn and try to think of all the possibilities that this site has to offer. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 10:32, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

I don't particularly mind not having off-page notes, rather, I agree with you, I like how seamless the transition is between the note and the text. However, I can hardly say the same for how you're going about with this. You're saying that you're doing this for the betterment of the site and not your personal preference, which is full retard, because this kind of thing is completely personal and subjective. It's like trying to decide whether Monet's or Picasso's works are better. Personally, I think a five year old draws better than Picasso. Or, Hemingway and Tolkien. Personally, I think Hemingway writes like a five year old. What you're doing is trying to provide reasons as to ''why'' you think Hemingway writes like a five year old, and then blowing other's points as invalid or 'not a reason' because they're subjective when that's exactly what you're doing. Then, you say: "I'm a hard worker," as if Hiro doesn't do his fair share of editing. And, how the hell does it make my job easier? What? It makes it easier for me to understand Japanese? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 10:51, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Rather than editing two pages and switching between them you can add the translation note on the same page, at the reference line, seamlessly. That's how your job can become easier. By cutting down the time it takes for you to write the external link to the translation page, opening the page and then writing the translation note at it's place. These three steps are cut down to one <nowiki><ref>Insert Transation note here</ref></nowiki>. I never said anyone was not a hard worker. I merely mentioned myself and my intentions were not to belittle anyone. I never shot down any of the points except the one where the words ''"Who cares?"'' were mentioned. If I was really as you say I am I would not have bothered with this discussion, at all. Instead I did bother with it. The only reason I really mentioned being a hard worker was to remove one problem: ''"Who would be willing to spend time on changing things?"'' You must admit that is a reason that influences most changes. So by saying I will do it and telling just how much of a hard worker I am, I am preventing the following thoughts: ''"It's too troublesome." "I don't wanna do it." "It'll take too long."'' If it really was for my personal preference I would not have given such rational reasons for the change. Now, I would like for you to give me rational reasons as to why the current system is better than the reference system, which ''is used'' by some projects on this site. I'm an not adverse to having the current system, as long as you can actually give me some real points for it. And besides, it's not like I will suddenly start converting anything without approval. I don't see why you're being so hostile. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:16, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

You want to hear what might be a real point to Vaelis? "I like it." Do we need any other points? All your points are just things that you like, therefore, his point carries the exact same weight as all your points combined. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:08, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

What I'm trying to say is, rather than constructing this as a rational argument, which it's impossible to do so properly, it's a matter of personal preference. I mean, this decision mostly affects the readers, so the best thing to would be to ask them. Since you're good at wikis, is it possible to organize a poll or something in the front page? Rather, this is something that would be better measured with a majority, rather than points, which is a rather selfish way of doing things. It's simply not taking everyone's opinions into account, which is what something like this should do, rather than with rational points. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:48, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

But a poll without understanding the pros and cons of both systems just seems like a blind popularity contest to me (Example: A beauty contest with the girls hidden). Sorry, but my specialty in wikis is templates, what you're suggesting might involve bots and other complex mechanisms. I'm afraid I'm currently incapable of doing that. Even if it is my preference at least I did give pros for the reference system. Up until now, other than a small mention on the font style there has been absolutely no pros given forward for the current system despite my asking over and over (And I did ask over and over). Well, here's a compromise, how about putting this discussion on hold until all the translations are finished? It would give time to mull things over. I've seen giving a break to discussions helps clear up some things. Even I might change my mind. Or would you rather we keep on discussing? It does cut into translation/editing time doesn't it? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 07:30, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

The thing is, this is supposed to be a popularity contest. In essence, this change is based on what people like, whether they like having an off-page reference, or <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. I'm not really translating regularly, as exams are coming up, and it's not like I'm working set hours, so it's not wasting my translation time, as such. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

True. But every popularity contest has to have the subjects displayed and their advantages and disadvantages noted. But nobody even bothers to point out any advantages to the current system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] - [[User Talk:Zero2001]] - 14:07, 31 May 2011

Advantages: Translator can put whatever the hell she wants without inhibition XD. Doesn't mess up the aesthetics of the page, (for some.) Allows for additional information to be put where necessary. Makes it easier to keep track of. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

Nice debate. Well even if you do a poll I don't know if anyone will vote. You could just make a thread about this and stick a poll in there if you want. But, as a reader, I can clearly say that having refs on the same page is better. Honestly though, it makes nearly no difference whatsoever, majority of readers won't care too much either way. Since this is the case, whatever is more convenient for the translator should be used. I mean... this is baka-tsuki. You have minimal contact with your readers anyways, so just do what you want.--[[User:Blackfaia|Blackfaia]] 00:04, 12 June 2011 (UCT)

== quick question ==

Who's on the cover of volume 8? I don't recognize her. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:32, 5 June 2011 (UCT)

See here: ***SPOILER*** http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3574281#post3574281 ***SPOILER*** --[[User:Remotemine|Remotemine]]

== Problem: Incomplete Translations ==

So yea, the problem I would like to address is the one regarding '''incomplete translations'''.

The translators '''have not finished volume 8''' yet they start on 9? How will the readers get a full experience if they can't read the whole thing?

I would love to translate but unfortunately, I'm not fluent in Japanese. I'm not here to bitch, I'm just trying to resolve a problem. This post may become irrelavant as the translations progress, but as of now, I see incomplete translations.

Thanks for your attention,

-Kuro Light XIII

Same here, I would love to continue reading, but unfortunately there aren't any translations. So please, if you can translate it. I would help if i could ...

As I posted on Kuro's talk page, the reason why people translate after an unfinished volume is that we should keep the greatest constancy possible. Meaning that there's a max of 2 translators per volume, and preferably only one. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] ([[User_talk:Kira0802|Talk]]) 16:31, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Thx for the reply. So that means that volume 8 is currently with no translator... can you give a date by which the tranlation is complete(if you can manage to get a translator for that volume). If you can I would be very grateful...

There still hasn't been any progress with the translations of vol 8 since I last checked... please someone translate it,, im begging you -KuroLightXIII

man guys i love the anime guys and was so excited becuz of the light novel but found out that it only till 8 volume are complete....im on my

knees mann to anyone who are willing to take time off from real life to translate this piece of novel... honestly im being a bitch here becuz

im irritated it like watching clannad after story without watching it ending or angel beats without the tearful ending or code geass and just

watching the 1st season... but im still thankful for translating this work till volume 7 - loyal fan

As much as I want to agree with you guys about the incomplete translations, I'm asking you to please stop this kind discussion. Asking them to quickly finish translating can be a very rude thing (it depends on how you view it though) and this is something that I've recently understood as well. The translators are doing this without any type of monetary reward and requires a lot of sacrifice on their part. As those that cannot even contribute to the novel's translation, we show our appreciation to them by saying thanks and try to give them some moral support with words but that's it. You should understand as well how hard it is to cope with real life matters especially since it's more important than translating LNs for free. The only thing we can do now is pray that someone will be willing to complete the translations and at the same time show our appreciation to the ones who finished the earlier volumes. If you guys still want the translations to be finished, you can try asking some translators that's almost finished with their project to continue with this one once they're done but don't persist if they refuse. They've done their part and that's more than enough. A more definite solution would be to learn the Japanese language ourselves and buy the LNs. This way you don't bother the translators and you're also supporting the authors who we should ultimately give thanks to for writing the LNs in the first place. - Cataccountant

Hello, I am not currently a translator for baka tsuki, but I would like to become one. I have 2 years of Japanese schooling, 5 months of living there on exchange, and a ridiculous amount of anime that I have watched. I am a native English speaker with a tendency to read every book I enjoy within a few hours, so there shouldn't be many problems with vocabulary. I would like to try translating Hidan no Aria if possible, unfortunately I have not yet found a local store to pick up the untranslated volumes. If I am able to get access to the Japanese version I would happily work on translation. Please let me know if this would be possible, and if there is another way to get the raw versions.
Thanks,
- 0Starkller0

@0Starkller0 --Before I bought my real copies, I always found my JP raw volumes over at jCafe. Just a few weeks ago they were still available there so you should still be able to find them pretty quickly. Hope that helps a bit. Good Luck! --[[User:Fallton13|Fallton13]]
Thanks, I got my copy of volume 10 already, 8 and 11 are in the mail. Ordered them from kinokuniya online store. - 0Starkiller0

Hey, i was wondering if you are really going to translate HnA and if yes are you going to finish volume 8 or jump right into one of the untranslated volumes? - Daeverius

I hope translator can quickly finish volume 8 and 9. because I can not read in Japanese, sincerly I beg for translator to finish it. Thanks.

Volume 14, HNA will probably be published this month. There's no one to translate the volumes 10,11,12,13? Please. Thank you.

== Image Editing ==
Went ahead and edited the images from volume 1 to volume 7, I'll continue with them as translators finish their job translating, so once volume 8 and 9 get properly finished i'll work on the images for these volumes. --[[User:Krytyk|Krytyk]] ([[User talk:Krytyk|talk]]) 19:37, 15 December 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the hard work. I'll wait vol 8 & 9 eagerly.

Thanks for the translation. I'll be eagerly awaiting the volumes 10, 11, 12 and 13

I hope the translation vol. 10 finish soon. I'am looking forward for it. thanks [[User:Zerocrack|Zerocrack]] ([[User talk:Zerocrack|talk]]) 21:06, 10 June 2013 (CDT)

== 10th Volume ==

How come the second chapter is already done while chapter 1 has not seen major advance since last August? --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 05:54, 7 February 2013 (CST)

Because the ones working are different Translators | [[User:Koakuma|Koakuma]] ([[User talk:Koakuma|talk]]) 07:02, 7 February 2013 (CST)

== AfterWord/Author's Notes ==
Hey guys just curious as to why there aren't any of the afterwords/author's notes for HnA at all. I noticed that they actually do exists, and I am wondering if its on purpose or is it just forgotten? I wonder if anyone else would be interested in doing them with me if you guys think we should add them in for completions sake. -- [[User:Royaloyalz|Royaloyalz]] ([[User talk:Royaloyalz|talk]]) 06:37, 8 February 2013 (CST)

I can't speak on behalf of previous translators to say why they haven't been done, but they definitely exist. They're really quite short, so I'll see about taking a stab at them.
--[[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] ([[User talk:Hiyono|talk]]) 09:56, 8 February 2013 (CST)

== So. ==

What would it take for a commissioned translation effort? I'm willing to offer. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 17:24, 5 May 2013 (CDT)

I don't see what you mean.
--[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]]

== Original Sources ==

Currently I'm only working as a full-time editor. If anyone can point me to Chinese sources for chapters 10-14, I shall translate for you guys ASAP. Just saying, the project supervisor has dropped this project though the translators and editors are still at work. Please bear with it.

[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 00:05, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

Try to contact one of the translators, since the projects at this wiki are mainly translated fro chinese, with the direct translation from japanese on second place. (Though there's always someone to check the correct terms from japanese sources. --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 19:08, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Hi, please do not openly talk about "raws" which have a connotation of illegally scanned copyright infringement. In theory, you should own the actual book you're translating from. Anyway, if you're looking for Chinese sources, you should be aware of lightnovel.cn, which is sort of the Chinese equivalent of Baka-Tsuki:
http://lknovel.lightnovel.cn/main/vollist/66.html

And Kemm: please do not insult translators such as js06, Teh_Ping, Tap, Code-Zero, hayashi_s, stellarroze, etc (just to name a few) who actually translate from Japanese to English. On what basis do you assert that Japanese translation is secondary? Even in the case of Hidan no Aria, YoakeNoHikari switched from Chinese to Japanese sources quite early on.

--[[User:Zzhk|Zzhk]] ([[User talk:Zzhk|talk]]) 19:46, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Thanks, I've already started to translate Volume 10. I'm not supposed to translate Chapter 1, but I'm already 90% done on my private copy. Waiting for Yoake to reply to my registration though.

I see what you mean by copyright infringement, but I really can't find any on the Singapore market. I would say that this is for "private use" though. Please forgive me.
[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 00:05, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

Zzhk, I know that there are translators who translate directly from japanese, and was about to include it on my previous post, but didn't know how to fit it; what I meant is that, going by quantity, I have found that, for some reason, they number less than those who make use of chinese sources (that's why "second place"). And when I talk about "raws" (though maybe I'm misusing it) I don't mean only so-called "public raws" (illegal) but also physical copies (that can be bought or lent) and digitalizations of owned copies for personal use (so as to no have to translate with one hand on the keyboard and the other turning pages, being able to read it on your PC, laptop or e-book reader or for preservation purposes). --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 06:31, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

== PDF files ==

The PDF files of volume 1 to 7 have been remove from MF can someone reup them ty
Edit: NVM that found them https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cgf7kw5qvbc6img/z9tAs_KOPf

== Vol. 11, and the issue of JP/CN/EN translations. ==

You may have noticed that I registered most of Vol. 11, but have not posted anything. I currently have drafts of chapter 2 and a segment of 3, translated from a Chinese raw. It has become obvious that translating indirectly will cause problems, so I will be rewriting my drafts with the Japanese version as reference. Of course, I don't actually know Japanese, but some info for dubious segments can still be gleaned. What would be nice, however, is a translation checker. Would one of the other translators be willing to do a once-over of the original Japanese text and the translated script side by side to make sure they're consistent? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 12:49, 14 August 2013 (CDT)

User talk:Kemm

2013-08-03T10:56:26Z

LB Kasen:

> I don't know if you know, but Aria's vol. 10 chapter 1 is right now open to translation (or so says Carinderyeah).

Noted. I would have had to read the entire volume for consistency anyways. I'd like a JP translation check; any idea where I might come by that? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 05:56, 3 August 2013 (CDT)

== Seikoku no Ryuu Kishi (Dragner) ==
Thx. In the novel it did use this language and I don't know about it. Err, I don't speak Spanish... sorry even when I know more than ten languages. Please change it and '''Please''' edit it for me and I'll take it as a reference. Cause the release for the coming week will be also about the chapter.

This is the chinese's: 头盔、护颈……胸甲、背甲、腰甲、臀甲……裙甲、护肩、肩甲……上臂甲、护肘……前臂甲……铁手套……大腿护甲、护膝……胫甲……铁靴…………马刺
This is japanese written in katakana: アルメーて, ゴルハール, ペート, エスパルダール, ブラフオネーラ, フアルダーへ, エスカルセーラ, ブフェータ, オンブレーラ, ブラサール,
コダル, マノーボラ, キホーテ, ゲアルダ, ゲレーパ, エスカルペ, エスポラーソ.
Because it don't understand these katakanas, so i use the translate through the kanji, and i'll get kabuto for armet.
thx for reminding me.--[[User:TJYYEO|TJYYEO]] ([[User talk:TJYYEO|talk]]) 00:01, 30 June 2013 (CDT)

Yeah sure! But I'm uploading it once the entire section is finished unless it gets stalled due to other things I have to do.[[User:Skullheart|Skullheart]] ([[User talk:Skullheart|talk]])

posting the whole chapter on that date.--[[User:RikiNutcase|RikiNutcase]] ([[User talk:RikiNutcase|talk]]) 07:31, 8 July 2013 (CDT)

==Oreimo==

---Well, to tell you the truth, I was also not sure at first since the chapter seemed a bit short, but I checked it on other sources , including a quick Chinese>English translation, and this is indeed the full chapter. So enjoy, and stay tuned for the last few chapters of this great series, Oreimo. --[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 14:40, 12 July 2013 (CDT)

---Yes, I noticed that too and even read your post in the forum thread for "Oreimo" regarding this issue. But, the problem is that I have never seen Chaos(The current translator for Oreimo) on the forum. So, our best bet is to try leaving a message on his talk page or email him about this. You know what, I'm gonna leave this message on his talk page right now and email him too. If you see him somewhere, raise this concern of yours.--[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 14:50, 13 July 2013 (CDT)
:The problem has been resolved by Chaos. The missing lines have been added by him and then have been edited by me. Please read it and get closure. --[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 04:30, 14 July 2013 (CDT)
::Thanks tothe both of you.--[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm#top|talk]]) 05:14, 14 July 2013 (CDT)

== Maou na Ore to Ghoul no Yubiwa ==

Interested in doing this lol since I see you add some description XD? (and I am not that active/fast/whatever anyways) - [[User:Par74583|Par74583]] ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

Oh, it's fine and if you want to you can start on ch.3. My language department isn't that good too (I do CE BTW), and I already got a lot of things on hand plus the fact that I put the least efforts in this series so I concur there are a lot of errors. [[User:Par74583|Par74583]] ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

Should I list you as one of the translator? ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

User talk:Kemm

2013-08-03T10:56:08Z

LB Kasen:

> I don't know if you know, but Aria's vol. 10 chapter 1 is right now open to translation (or so says Carinderyeah).
Noted. I would have had to read the entire volume for consistency anyways. I'd like a JP translation check; any idea where I might come by that? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 05:56, 3 August 2013 (CDT)

== Seikoku no Ryuu Kishi (Dragner) ==
Thx. In the novel it did use this language and I don't know about it. Err, I don't speak Spanish... sorry even when I know more than ten languages. Please change it and '''Please''' edit it for me and I'll take it as a reference. Cause the release for the coming week will be also about the chapter.

This is the chinese's: 头盔、护颈……胸甲、背甲、腰甲、臀甲……裙甲、护肩、肩甲……上臂甲、护肘……前臂甲……铁手套……大腿护甲、护膝……胫甲……铁靴…………马刺
This is japanese written in katakana: アルメーて, ゴルハール, ペート, エスパルダール, ブラフオネーラ, フアルダーへ, エスカルセーラ, ブフェータ, オンブレーラ, ブラサール,
コダル, マノーボラ, キホーテ, ゲアルダ, ゲレーパ, エスカルペ, エスポラーソ.
Because it don't understand these katakanas, so i use the translate through the kanji, and i'll get kabuto for armet.
thx for reminding me.--[[User:TJYYEO|TJYYEO]] ([[User talk:TJYYEO|talk]]) 00:01, 30 June 2013 (CDT)

Yeah sure! But I'm uploading it once the entire section is finished unless it gets stalled due to other things I have to do.[[User:Skullheart|Skullheart]] ([[User talk:Skullheart|talk]])

posting the whole chapter on that date.--[[User:RikiNutcase|RikiNutcase]] ([[User talk:RikiNutcase|talk]]) 07:31, 8 July 2013 (CDT)

==Oreimo==

---Well, to tell you the truth, I was also not sure at first since the chapter seemed a bit short, but I checked it on other sources , including a quick Chinese>English translation, and this is indeed the full chapter. So enjoy, and stay tuned for the last few chapters of this great series, Oreimo. --[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 14:40, 12 July 2013 (CDT)

---Yes, I noticed that too and even read your post in the forum thread for "Oreimo" regarding this issue. But, the problem is that I have never seen Chaos(The current translator for Oreimo) on the forum. So, our best bet is to try leaving a message on his talk page or email him about this. You know what, I'm gonna leave this message on his talk page right now and email him too. If you see him somewhere, raise this concern of yours.--[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 14:50, 13 July 2013 (CDT)
:The problem has been resolved by Chaos. The missing lines have been added by him and then have been edited by me. Please read it and get closure. --[[User:Rohan123|Rohan123]] ([[User talk:Rohan123|talk]]) 04:30, 14 July 2013 (CDT)
::Thanks tothe both of you.--[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm#top|talk]]) 05:14, 14 July 2013 (CDT)

== Maou na Ore to Ghoul no Yubiwa ==

Interested in doing this lol since I see you add some description XD? (and I am not that active/fast/whatever anyways) - [[User:Par74583|Par74583]] ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

Oh, it's fine and if you want to you can start on ch.3. My language department isn't that good too (I do CE BTW), and I already got a lot of things on hand plus the fact that I put the least efforts in this series so I concur there are a lot of errors. [[User:Par74583|Par74583]] ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

Should I list you as one of the translator? ([[User_talk:Par74583|talk]])

User talk:LB Kasen

2013-08-03T10:54:42Z

LB Kasen:

I'm not sure what you're getting at. but the site does/doesn't support paid translations. . except if there is someone who wishes to take on the offer. . anyways. . anyone is free to take up your offer. . nobody just happens to be interested yet. . [[User:Carinderyeah|Carinderyeah]] ([[User talk:Carinderyeah|talk]]) 23:31, 5 May 2013 (CDT)

I don't know if you know, but Aria's vol. 10 chapter 1 is right now open to translation (or so says Carinderyeah). But what is that about "paid translations"? From what I know this is a free wiki with non-profit policies.--[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 20:10, 17 July 2013 (CDT)

Thanks for taking up volume 11. Do update us on your progress, we need to allocate portions of the volume. Otherwise the chapters may conflict. [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 04:14, 18 July 2013 (CDT)

Hmmm the translator do get paid with praises, respect, more praises and sometimes criticisms as for money you're in the wrong site. Your idea might apply to scanlanation groups not BT. The translator here is doing these because they want to do it. Plus that idea might shut down BT --[[User:SirEatALot|SirEatALot]] ([[User talk:SirEatALot|talk]]) 08:56, 27 July 2013 (CDT)

No, I really think you're all overreacting. I asked for a private commission, which I may or may not post for free. The right to do what I wanted with the finished product of the commission would presumably belong to me, bar original copyright holder issues. There's no problem here. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen#top|talk]]) 05:54, 3 August 2013 (CDT)

KanzakiAria Talk:Hidan no Aria

2013-07-20T01:43:50Z

LB Kasen:

I personally wanted to sort out different talks since I will be taking up other LNs, so I created this page. Please post your comments on their respective sections.

==Questions from Editors==

==Appreciation Bulletin==

==Questions and Answers==

==Miscellaneous==
Looking at the Chinese sources I'm working with, it's becoming obvious that I'll need some kind of TL check, so I'll be looking for Japanese raws to compare some specific segments against. It's mostly for places where I can't quite tell whether a special term or a generic noun is being used, and some areas where the particular syntax is important. Might I be able to find some people willing to do TL checks? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 20:43, 19 July 2013 (CDT)

Hidan no Aria:Registration Page

2013-07-17T19:41:30Z

LB Kasen:

To re-iterate the registration procedure:

* "First Come, First Served": please register your intended chapters here

* The maximum number of chapters you are recommended to work on is no more then half of any given volume

* Maximum number of Translators per volume is two

* Maximum number of volumes you may be active on is one

* This is not some Binding Contract of "I must do the work I put down here". Choices put down here are negotiable between translators (including their own selves who signed up for it).

== Hidan no Aria Series Registration ==

=== Volume 1 ===
::*Prologue - [[User:Ken FF|Ken FF]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Ken FF|Ken FF]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] - [[User:LightInDark|LightInDark]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:Spadey|Spadey]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:Spadey|Spadey]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Epilogue - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 2 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]]- '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - Small part by [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Epilogue - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 3 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Epilogue - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 4 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Nera Sleith|Nera Sleith]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Epilogue - [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 5 ===

::*Pierce 1 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Pierce 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Reload 1 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Reload 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Reload 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Epilogue - [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 6 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter -[[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 7 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Cosmic Eagle|Cosmic Eagle]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:Cosmic Eagle|Cosmic Eagle]] - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 8 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - [[User:NiMx1233|NiMx1233]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - [[User:NiMx1233|NiMx1233]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 9 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Othao|Othao]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:Othao|Othao]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:Othao|Othao]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:Othao|Othao]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:Othao|Othao]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] - [[User:Jan Kurem|Jan Kurem]] - [[User:NiMx1233|NiMx1233]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''

=== Volume 10 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User:Kira0802|Kira0802]] - [[User:IngridSenpai|IngridSenpai]] - [[User:NiMx1233|NiMx1233]] - [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 2 - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 3 - [[User:NiMx1233|NiMx1233]] - [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 4 - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''
::*Chapter 5 - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''
::*Final Chapter - [[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] - '''Completed'''
::*Afterword - [[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]]

=== Volume 11 ===

::*Chapter 1 - [[User: Carinderyeah|Carinderyeah]]
::*Chapter 2 - [[User: Kelvin|Kelvin]]
::*Chapter 3 - [[User: LB Kasen|LB Kasen]]
::*Chapter 4 - [[User: LB Kasen|LB Kasen]]
::*Final Chapter - [[User: LB Kasen|LB Kasen]]
::*Afterword - [[User: LB Kasen|LB Kasen]]

=== Volume 12 ===

::*Chapter 1 -
::*Chapter 2 -
::*Chapter 3 -
::*Chapter 4 -
::*Chapter 5 -
::*Afterword -

=== Volume 13 ===

::*Chapter 1 -
::*Chapter 2 -
::*Chapter 3 -
::*Chapter 4 -
::*Chapter 5 -
::*Final Chapter -
::*Afterword -

<noinclude>
{| border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaaaaa solid; padding: 0.2em; border-collapse: collapse;"
|-
| Return to [[Hidan_no_Aria|Main Page]]
|-
|}
</noinclude>

[[Category:Registration Page]]

Talk:Hidan no Aria Archived

2013-07-14T06:27:43Z

LB Kasen: /* Translation/Editing Board */

== Translation/Editing Board ==

Hi! I've finally finished translating Volume 10 Chapter 1. Guys, please help me edit. I don't think I did a good job though.

I'm currently working on Volume 10 Chapter 3, after I finish this chapter (it'll take about half a week), I will head on to the Afterword, and then you guys can read it :D

People who are worrying about Volume 11 to 14, please bear with us. As of now, many translators seem to be dormant. I think only Hiyono and I are working on it. And apparently Hiyono has ceased his operations temporarily, though he still roams in Baka-Tsuki once in a while.

Also, this Discussion Topic is for everyone who is translating/editing to congregate. Of course, if you want to ask for our progress, you can.

[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 03:32, 28 June 2013 (CDT)

If you guys are doing CN->EN I'd like to join in; if there's any editing external to B-T, that too. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 01:27, 14 July 2013 (CDT)

== Translation ==
Are there anyone who is currently traslating volume 11-14?

I've been wondering... did the translators working on this put it on hiatus? becuase ive noticed that for the longest time, there has been no progress
Yo... the author of this series... he uses a pen name right? He's not actually named "middle school" right?

Hey I've been editing lately. I've found Kinji's last name spelled Tohyama and Tooyama, we should keep his name uniform at least. I'm gonna change them all to Tohyama, Tooyama is awkward for me for some reason. -blackfaia

nice novel, with a monthly manga and a coming anime

I wanted to compliment the translators on the speed and quality of their translation. You guys are dropping these volumes one by one, thank for your hard work.

WHERE ARE THE TRANSLATORS XD WHY WON'T THEY REPLY! WHY WONT THEY LET ME TRANSLATE >_<!!!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 08:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not just continue translating until they reply?

start translating from ch 3 so you are sure you won't translate the same thing^^

Mr. Seoulfighter, please lend us your godly powers and translate this LN, thank you very much ~Ghost

Fine I'll start picking this up soon since I've received no contact from the other translators, and realized it's never been updated. but right now I have to find a job to help pay for college -.-... my dad wasted my tuition on my stepmother... WASTED 35,000$ on her jewelry and clothes(tears)!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 02:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:That's sad. Sometimes I wonder how parents can be this cruel and selfish... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
::If this happened to me, I'd give those parents of mine a MASSIVE chewing out. I mean seriously, WTF? Well, good luck to you though Seoulfighter.

you have my sympathy Seoulfighter-san. Your tuition fee must be the top priority because it is the job of the parents to make sure their children graduate from school... Thanks again ~ Ghost

don't worry abouts TL and think about yourself, Real Life has top priority^^(even if this will make us a little sad)

I got contacted by the original translator, and Undying told me that his hard drive got wiped so he won't be working on this project. I guess for now, while I wait for a reply from the places I applied to I'll do some translating.

As for my parents if I tried to chew them out my dad would start a Socratic Seminar about how my line of logic is flawed and his is correct this lasts for 3 HOURS and can go up to 6 if I argue... my mom is poor, and my dad sold my car(My dad had 3 cars one of which he had originally planned on giving to me.) and gave that money to my sister.
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 18:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Your mom is poor? Step-mom or real mom?

::My Real mom who has a job... and my step-mom who is leeching off my father... both are poor. - seoulfighter

:::I get the feeling that you don't really like your stepmom...

children suffered because of their irresponsible parents.... Hang-on seoulfighter ~ Ghost

Your dad doesnt like you (anymore)? You haven't made him angry, did you? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
^^Your confidence made me lol. Either his father doesn't like him now, or his father never liked him... I will cry now.

lol No my dad never said he doesn't like me. He says he loves me like all his children =.=... which is meaningless considering all of us were kicked out to accommodate my stepmother... As for what I did to piss him off. He asked me during college to be a dog that just studies and stay in my room, and listen to every command he gives me =.=. What would YOU do if your parents said those words to you... Then said they only have your best interest in mind...
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 06:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all parents' words are correct, they are also human who commit mistakes. Have you talked about how you feel with your father? Maybe you and your father misunderstood each other. Misunderstanding might cause great conflict on the future. ~ Ghost

I have talked to him sat down face to face and tried to sort it out. The only thing that ended up happening is that he said I'm being illogical. He said he couldn't understand why I can't just listen to everything he says and have faith that every decision he's making for me is the best for me =.=. I'll start translating some more to blow off some steam >_<!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Man, your life's almost like a mix between Hayate No Gotoku and Cinderalla, you have my sympathy. ~ Aussie Curry.

wow... just finished reading the last chapter of volume one... I must say... chapter 5 is basically as long as the first 4 chapters combined... I'll refrain from giving spoilers but that was really an unexpected twist that I should have seen coming...

its almost a month or more since the last update..... any news? This and <sword art online> made me craving for more LOL ~ghost

Last time I checked, Spadey was approximately 42% done. Expect chapter 5 to be completed at least by the end of this month, if not the next.
--[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 05:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want, I can give you some spoilers on both this and SAO --[[User:Eveonder|Eveonder]] 05:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

ow thanks for the update! and about the spoiler... thanks but I will wait for the complete chapter ^^ --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]]

did he used the word dog?REAlly? wow i know who is in the (hell)list--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Here i go again and asking for the status LOL --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]] 10:35 , 15 October 2010 (GMT + 8:00)

Since the manga release at snail pace....I am waiting for the last chapter here... [[User:xenocross|xenocross]]

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Summary of previous discussion: Translator is trying to go to school. Has problems. Will gambatte. Our heartfelt approval.
--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 20:28, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

--I don't know how else to contact translators of this series, so I'll post here. Seeing as the anime adaption is coming out in around a week, I'm guessing there will be a lot more views of this series. As such, I wouldn't mind if the translators spit out a roughly translated version of the next few volumes, I have 2+ hours a day I can spend fixing up English, I can probably revise a chapter a day if need be. --[[User:Asteradragon|Asteradragon]] 8:52, 6 March 2011 (EST)

--Speed translating is an insult to the craft. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 21:55, 10 April 2011 (UCT)

Only if it's done horribly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:01, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

The anime is out now.. thats what brought me here. If you do decide to do a fast translation I would like to add that I can also edit anything you put out. -blackfaia

Vol 8 ?

Are their any plans to continue translating this series? Because it seems volume 8 and 9 in particular are almost done but their hasn't been any updates in quite some time...

Yo anyone want Vol 14? ISBN978-4-8401-4932-7 http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/bunkoj/book_detail/945 - Sexy

We need volume 8 and 9, to have pdf versions since they are finished [[User:Zeru|Zeru]] ([[User talk:Zeru|talk]]) 00:36, 23 January 2013 (CST)

...Look, all the pdfs are done by fans. BT doesn't have a staff per say. Bottom line, do your own pdfs, or wait for a fan to do up one.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] ([[User talk:Teh Ping|talk]]) 07:55, 23 January 2013 (CST)

==The Anime==

The Anime is starting today or tomorrow, does anyone have some hope for it? --[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 12:40, 14 April 2011 (UCT)

Slightly disappointing, but they do have to condense a lot of things in anime, so I'm not going to be too critical - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:13, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I can't say I disagree, but so far it doesn't look to bad. Though I have to admit I don't think Aria's voice is quite right, it just feels slightly wrong.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 18:28, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

A bit too cutesy for my taste, but that's Kugyuu for you - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

But the seiyu voice fits. I did think Aria's mannerisms were a lot similar to Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, but they went even further and added a dash of Nagi from Hayate no Gotoku, Aria's voice could not be in better hands since Kugimiya-san did both. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I don't know, it just seemed a bit too "squeeky" or a little too grating to fit with the character, at least that is what I think from reading the first 3 books.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 21:42, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

そうだった。She's described as having a Seiyuu like voice, so they can't go wrong there. XD However, I did think her voice would be slightly lower, possibly a more Shana-like tone. Anyways, do you guys like the OP/ED - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 22:00, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

My Opinions: OP = 3.5/5 , ED 2/5. Some parts of the OP sounded similar to Asura Cryin's OP (to me at least), loved that one. Fav. part from ep 1 (+ -)"Aaaa, Watashi no magazine!!!". BTW how far do you think the anime will cover the story? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 04:01, 17 April 2011 (UCT)

Shows ended now and it seems the DVD/Blu-Ray of vol.1 of the anime did not sell well enough for a second season so far. Thinking I am gonna have to stick to just reading the story here.[[User:ROOMA4HELL|ROOMA4HELL]] 04:39, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

== Picture Positioning ==

I'd like to discuss and debate about the picture positioning in the light novel chapter parts. Currently the pictures are being placed in such an order as to mimic the light novel position. (ie: text page ends picture page begins). However I believe that this is problematic to be used ''here'' because in reading a light novel one can see the picture page as well as the text page side by side when they open onto that page thus allowing easy comparison between the line and it's corresponding picture. But here, due to the layout being continuous it does not allow the corresponding to occur so smoothly. Instead the reader passes the line that the picture corresponds to and finds the image 10 to 20 lines below that right next to text lines that have either little or absolutely no relation to the picture at all. I acknowledge the argument that this is how the author wished it to be, however I wish to make a point that this was because of the very basic format of all books. No matter what page you open to, unless you fold one side to the back there will always be two pages before you. So I have two ideas to give here:
# Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them.
# Mark the end of each page with a <nowiki>----</nowiki> to insert a line signifying the end of a novel page(like demonstrated below) and making the pictures bigger so they may seem page sized as well.

----

:3. Make no changes and let the text and pictures remain unmatched.

Wow that's three. LOL. Personally, I believe the first idea is the best even if it does go against the original ordering. Does anyone have any objections and explanations as to why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UCT)

<s>I'll go with the first option. Initially, I thought that the picture placement was just some kind or bug or error or something. It didn't really occur to me that that was intentional. ;) Anyway, it will help the reader identify the scene and image better, since the picture is placed beside or near the accompanying text.</s> My ignorance is showing, sorry about that. Anyway, I read (or looked at a page, trying to find a word I know) the source and the images are pretty much around where they are here, the only difference being the format (page-to-page vs continuous). Cross-referenced other series (specifically ZnT) and the editing is the same. So even though it's not spot on, it is how the page is intended w/ the only difference being format. So I guess, 3rd option? [[User:Seyrine|s13]] 16:05, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not putting the pictures anywhere else. Each author chooses where to put their pictures for a very specific reason. If you think it doesn't correspond well, then minimize a picture of the photo and read it side by side.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:34, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

The OP is not incorrect that you can see the pictures side by side when you're reading it, but I prefer to just put it in at the end of the page, because, well...that's just how I see it. Putting it at the beginning would not necessarily be incorrect, but it's nice to read something before you look at the picture for it, which is the author's intent. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:09, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

What you are saying ''is'' partly true. But only in cases where the picture relating to the text is on the ''backside'' of the related text page. When it is on the page on the side it is obviously there so that the picture and the text could be easily referenced. Even here because of the picture's size it can be made to look as though it is right next to the page. That is what I believe the author's original intention is. I'm not wrong am I? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 17:16, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Rather I would say that because of the transition from side-by-side to continuous format the resulting positions of the pictures are something the author had not originally wanted, wouldn't you agree? As such shouldn't we choose from point 1 or 2 and not 3 regardless of how it's being done in the other light novels pages? Isn't it only correct that we do this? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Finally from what you have been saying, it seems that you want the format to be as follows:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

but instead it's '''''actually''''' like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''text'' '''page3''' ''picture'' '''page2'''

'''Note:''' Point 1 would make it like this:

''text'' '''page1''' ''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

whereas Point 2 would show it like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
----
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
----
''text'' '''page3'''

So which format would you prefer. According to this, even the current format is actually against the original author's wishes, isn't it?  [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 12:43, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

give it a few days before concluding that people are not answering. some of us are busy people in RL. besides, not everyone watches the pages, or are able to sift through the flood of "recent changes" to find their object of interest. bring it to the forums in that case. begging your pardon, as a translator, I think this is so trivial that I won't even waste time debating or discussing it. discussing stuff like terminologies such as the butei articles is more constructive than a few image placements, and there are very few indeed; begging your pardon again. if you really want to, you can set up a poll in the forums, but that would only make sense if a lot of people are actually concerned with this topic of interest. whatever the case, the supervisor (or translators) makes the final decision. on a side note, given that this is relatively popular project, nobody posting means no one cares about this? and sorry for my typing because I hate caps hahaha :3 --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 13:17, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

No problem. I do understand and it was my intention to wait. Plus the purpose of this topic is to persuade the editors and as stated in my previous post ''(see hidden text)'' the comment was just for motivation and I apologized to those who would take it the wrong way, finally I didn't actually say anything wrong, only laughed ''(evilly yes but only laughed)'', LOL. Besides, if my intention was not to persuade through discussion and debating the issue I wouldn't have started this in the first place. Trivial, it might be on face, but I still think it is worth discussing because of it's deeper implications. Plus if nobody cares doesn't that mean that any format is applicable? I think that is wrong, which is why I wish to confirm others views on this. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:46, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

I didn't say that you are saying something wrong. It's just my opinion that it's a trivial thing, just as it's in your opinion that it's important. Different opinions that's all. No right or wrong. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 14:06, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

True. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:49, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Yes indeed. Going over the previous posts I see that this is indeed a difference in opinion. Clarity is indeed needed. My opinion is that of a single reader, what's yours? Oh and we might need other readers' opinions as well, after all I am not the only one or a representative of all the readers. No, not at all. Thus more input from both sides would be appreciated. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:42, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Hmm... I wouldnt see any reason to do it different as it is done in the other translations... - aka text page / picture page / text page, but if you like you could put the corresponding line also under the picture (like it was done for Haruhi) to get a matching effect... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

Yeah that is being done here and there. But it still feels weird to scroll down a whole screen or two just to get to the picture that matches the text, especially when in the book the text-picture pages are side-by-side '''(See the layout example a few posts back for details)''. ''(After checking)'' See, the picture's still side-by-side even here, just with the wrong text page, so to speak. I'm proposing we correct that. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step but if we don't take the first step how will the journey begin? So why not take the first step when the result is an improvement? If it's a problem of time consumption while revising previous chapters then can't you let me take care of that detail. That way the translators won't have to stop their work. I can do it all within a few hours, albeit a bit roughly in the cases where the picture does not have labels. But even so. It's actually better than setting it next to the wrong page start. As said before I believe setting the picture, next to the page, after the one it is meant for (ie:

'''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text'' | '''page2''': ''picture''

) is not how the author wished it, though this is just my view as a reader. But it does hold some water, no? We could even switch the ordering around to make it even closer to the original format like so:

'''page2''': ''picture'' | '''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text''

What do you think? Oh and the offer, of me doing it if translators too busy translating, still stands. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 01:50, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

My opinion: remove the stupid text under the pictures and "Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them."

That's how I do it for every series [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 07:53, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not too busy translating, I'm too busy reading other things. Just because I translate this fanatically doesn't mean I don't have a mountain of other things to read/watch. As it stands, I'm practicing my Japanese by reading Mayo Chiki!, which is kind of a weird order, but that's irrelevant.

My opinion: I don't care enough to argue about it. If you're so horribly against putting it down there, then change it, but as I translate, I'm going to keep doing it the way it is currently. If you want to change it, then just do so after I put it in. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:09, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

That's fine with me. So to confirm, I can set the picture next to the related text while revising and there won't be an edit war over it, right? Cause that's really scary. This one time... Oh well that's... well, forget that. Anyway, I have permission to match text with pictures while revising, right? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, can I? Can I? Can I? Pleeeease? ''(Hoppity, hoppity, hop)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:42, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

At this point, I couldn't care less. If such a trivial thing irks you so badly, then by all means, go ahead and change it. I certainly won't be wasting time and effort to change it back. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:05, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Thank you! (Nyari) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:14, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

== Fuuma's speech to be changed==

I would like to change all of Fuumas "I" to "Oneself"/"myself" or "this one". Anything along those lines represent the "Sessha" she uses to refer to herself.
I would like opinions on this matter, for while "Myself/oneself" is my favorite, it should be the most easily-read one that prevails.

--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 22:59, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&p=82653#p82653

Forum backlink.

--------
An example would make things more clear. Though personally I think it a pretty good idea. It does conform to the ancient/honorable/humble manner of speaking. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:46, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

<nowiki>*</nowiki>Facepalm*. You know what, let's just change all of Patra's "I"s to "My Majesty". Also, "Myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Me myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "This unworthy one hasn't been able to meet with you for a while."

I'm not budging. This is ''not'' open to discussion. How does a servant refer to himself in front of his lord in ''English''? "Your lord master, your servant hasn't grown enough crops this year."?. That's what somebody says when they speak to God. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

--------

Yoake also has a point. But check this page out as well. It might help. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeism Illeism]. Just keeping an open mind here. I mean fansubbing translators usually do try and keep the Japanese manner of speech in their work rather than completely going English. The exotic manner is rather appealing. Just a thought though. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

I have an idea of how to completely retain the meaning. I write warawa or sessha and then link to the wikipedia page. That sound good? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:28, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

That is also a good idea. AH! Found it! This link would be better: ''http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns''. For Archaic references like ''sessha'' appending ''#Archaic_personal_pronouns'' would help ''(subsection link)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:36, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I was actually joking because that's amazingly retarded and nobody really cares enough, but, whatever floats your boat. Good luck fitting warawa in when I used me rather than I to refer to her. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, I'm being rude on purpose. I feel that the English language has no way of showing how bad of an idea I think this is if I don't resort to vulgarity. Rather, 'better; is a comparative phrase, and since I never actually mentioned a noun to which to compare to, a better word would be 'good'. At any rate, これは全然ひどい、全然無意味、全然迷惑なことって絶対変わらず。 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:47, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I see. But you also do have a point. Not everyone would be able to understand right off the bat that way. Oh well. By the way they actually did used to say ''"My liege, your servant requests permission to withdraw."'' or ''"Your servant would like to beg forgiveness for his tardiness."'' Rankings in the Royal court did actually effect the manner of speech greatly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:54, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't make Fuuma say 'your student'. Please. Please. Please. Please. Fansubbers can translate how they want, the seas could boil and the Earth would crack, but don't make a ninja call herself 'your student' in front of Kinji. There's an t/l note already, can we let it go? I'll make a concession and expand on it as well as adding a link.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 20:03, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Naze nara... kore wa zenzen hidoi, zenzen muimi, zenzen meiwaku na koto ka? LOL. Jodan desu. Yes explaining in more detail in the Translation Notes and References pages is also another good idea/option. Actually I think it is the best one yet. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 20:10, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

-----------
There is one short reference. But seriously Yoake, please consider what I am proposing seriously.
I'd like to stress that I am not attacking your translations here; I'm giving an opionion, not demanding word-by-word translations. If this insults you, I apologize for not putting it in kinder words.
But I won't have you being rude without properly hearing me out. It is demeaning.

Now, back to the matter itself:

There are archaic english that would properly convey the nuance of her speech; and I belive it would be worth the effort to try getting it across.
Now, I don't want to be harsly spoken, and I respect you work Yoake - In fact I really enjoy it. I just think we should be able to work something out to make it more along the authors intentions.I myself am not a native speaker, but I can see how:

"Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," should be written as "One has not been able to meet Instuctor for a while", reflecting the inpersonal part of sessha, and the second-part reference to oneself. Hasn't and the like are actually a good idea in my opinion, but they can be written to make a point of reflecting speech-patterns instead of as a rule.
As for Patra, aren't a royal "We" sufficient to reflect her nature coupled with a notice in the text?

In fact, most light novels translations fail on this part and I think everyone here could try to figure something out together instead of bashing the notion. Is that too much to ask for from a free wiki?
I sure don't think so.

Is this insufficient? I think that we should be able to see merit in this proposal.

With respect / --[[User:Novium|Novium]] 00:07, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Well done, great explanation. Strong points. What do you think Yoake? There is ''some'' weight in the arguments is there not? Indeed such ways of speaking have been used in ancient literature as well as medieval times. And yes, in English the use of the words "We" and "Us" are plural forms however they were used by royals to refer to themselves (them being the leader/representative of their people probably brought on that effect). The use of plural form is regarded as a sign of great respect in many languages. That is a hard fact. Humility also meant referring to oneself in the third-person. The arguments are indeed sound. Are they not? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:27, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

A famous example of the use of "One" and "Oneself" for self referral is the character of Andrew Martin in the film [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicentennial_Man_%28film%29 Bicentennial Man]. It chronicles the story of a robot and his journey into humanity. Before being ordered by his master to use "I" Andrew referred to himself as "one" or "oneself" as originally programmed to do so. It's a wonderful and beautiful story, you guys should try seeing it sometime. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 02:35, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

No.

Third person referral has a completely different meaning in Japanese. Since there is no equivalent for one, third person referral through using their names such as Riko saying "Riko" instead of I is a very feminine style of speech. As such, I'm not willing to use any third person. Go look at the forum. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I've read the forum posts. Now I understand why "One" or "Oneself" is not used here for "Sessha". It might be equivalent in some respects but not exactly. I see. I learned something new. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:50, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I can agree with the royal "we". That's it. = [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:14, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

See, discussions can actually help improve oneself if you see them in a certain way. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:10, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I am not a translator or even an editor and therefore have less value than the dirt on your shoes. But in light of my self-deprecation I hope you will accept my opinion. I agree with Yoake. Even someone referring to themselves as 'we' is a little weird to read in English, since it is not something that anyone ever does, unless they are a faggot. (forgive me) Imagine someone calling themselves we... If you want to create a suitably "exotic" atmosphere I think including suffixes after names, and leaving some nouns untranslated (but obviously in romaji) is good enough. -blackfaia

That's only because there are very few countries nowadays where kings and queens reign in full power (England has royalty but they're only figureheads). However, the royal terms "we" and "us" have been historically proven to be used. Pity English doesn't have honorific terms for the word "you" other than "Thee". Just an info tip. Not trying to revive this talk. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 03:45, 28 May 2011 (UCT)

== Question about Translation Notes ==

Why are the translation notes and references on a separate page when they can be even more easily shown as a list at the bottom of each chapter via use of the '''ref''' tag? It's so bothersome to have to either navigate to a new page or open it in a new tab or window just to see a small note. Using the '''ref'''erence tag allows for in-page navigation (ie: new page doesn't need time to load, screen just zeros in on the reference or back to text ''without'' page loading). So why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

Well its ''even'' more bothersome if you have to look up these references yourself. HnA is a light novel that has a substantial number of references and allusions to famous people, furthermore it is up to the translators creed. Also how is it that difficult to click on translation notes that simply opens a new page? Unless the readers are just being lazy. This really seems like a trivial matter to me. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 16:47, 23, May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well. Readers '''are''' lazing around, according to the elderly. LOL. But seriously, ''as a reader'' I would prefer having the translation notes at the bottom of the page rather than opening a new page. It might be lazy but it is ''faster'' in loading/navigation. If it's a problem of too much trouble I'd be happy to do it for you guys. I just think making a '''whole''' new/separate page for those notes is ''wasteful''. "A new page + data" takes more space than simply "data at the bottom of an already existing page". [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:36, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, it might be useful when you transform it unto a PDF format. Speaking of PDF, can someone go edit V2? [[User:Kira0802|きら]] 23:06, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

I can edit HnA volume 2 since I have nothing else to do atm Kira0802. Here's my opinion as a reader: just leave it as it is, this is such a trivial matter. If the reader wants such high-quality material, then they could learn the language and simply buy the light novels. Also, note that some translators do not bother making said these references at all, whether its the translation notes or foot notes at the bottom. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 00:10, 24, May 2011 (UCT)

Sorry, but learning the language takes years of hard work. Plus not every country has access to places that actually sell the light novels. The reason people come to online light novel, manga and anime sites is ''because'' they '''don't want''' to wait. But even if it does seem like a trivial thing, there are benefits to it:

# People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)
# Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)
# Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing.
# Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')

I'd be happy if you can give me points that can legitimately favor leaving the translation notes on a separate page. If it's just because of the trouble of doing the work I said I can do it. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Instead of worrying about the convenience of foot notes vs translation notes, editing takes priority. There are still a number of HnA volumes and chapters that still needs editing and proofreading. That should be your first responsibility as an editor. Although if you still feel so strongly about this issue, then its best to take it to the forums. The translators and supervisors get the last say in regards to this issue. [[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 17:31, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Here's my suggestion. If you're so bothered by this, Zero, then we can make a short reference at the bottom. If you want a more detailed, then we'll use the TL note&ref. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 18:07, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Let's look at the different points:

"1. People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)" -> the page with the translation's note are only text, it's really small.

"2. Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)" -> if it's '''well done''', you can easily go back and forth between the two. I know it's not the case right now but the editors should learn how to do it, it's not that hard.

"3. Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing." -> it's not the translator's job but the editor's job.

"4. Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')" -> who cares?

Anyway you can look at every BT projects and I'm almost sure that all of them put reference notes on a separate page and personally I like it this way. I don't want to see tl notes who pollute the bottom of the page of the translation. So if you want an argument then it's aesthetic, and I always privilege it. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 18:45, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

[[Sword Art Online]] doesn't and I think it looks good. But as to your counters:

# Even if the page is small it ''still'' takes time to load. Time which could be further shortened by using the ref tag. The ref tag ''exists'' for this reason.
# Why bother doing something the more complex way when you can do it the easier way. Oh... and there is no way to make a backlink to the referring text unless you actually make subsections in the chapters when using different pages for the translation notes (Something that will mess up the natural ordering of the chapter). But ref tagging allows '''not only''' to generate an automatic link ''to the note'' but a ''backlink'' to the referring text. Ref tagging is a legit and popular way to add reference notes, used in all wikias and wikipedia sites as well. This site seems to be a model of those and ref tags are here as well. So why not use it??? Furthermore it will allow for a more interactive experience. People can scroll down to the references and use the back link to check the referring text as they see fit. (ie: using the link for reference 1 but then catching sight of the next reference note 2 and using the backlink to check the referred text for ''that'' note. Not everyone just reads through the whole thing once, you know).
# Translation notes are the translator's job. But that's not even a valid point. So what if it was the editor's job. I'm not talking about external links here like names like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan Genghis Khan], I'm talking mainly about the translation notes that should normally appear at the bottom of the page for easy referral and its links <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki>. I'm saying ref tagging makes not only the translator but the editor's job easier by taking the linking job off their hands. So why not use it? Plus the <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki> are quite obviously a mimicry of the referral system. That's how the referral links are shown.
# "Who cares" is definitely not a valid argument. Isn't it always better to strive for advancement? Such terms only seek to arrest making something better. Why not just open your mind to the possibilities rather than closing it. I do have good and valid points. Don't shoot them down with such terms, it sounds wrong.

Finally I apologize if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack. That was not my intention. I only wished for something that actually allows for an improvement to the current system. Well mainly it is the backlinking. But it also is true that it saves website space, is that not a good thing? Saving space means more data can be saved, no? Well basically we will only be the space of the page container that will be reduced but every little bit helps, does it not? And complex coding can be avoided, is that not better? All one has to do is write so: <nowiki><ref>Enter translation note here</ref></nowiki> where the text that should refer is; instead of writing the external link <nowiki>[http://www.baka-tsuki.com/???]</nowiki> and then writing the translation notes in the page it refers to. Give it a thought, which process is more complex??? Also I don't thing any two humans have the exact same aesthetic sense. Why not think about the benefits of the ref system. And tell me of the benefits of the current system. I'm sure there must be some. I always concede when there are more benefits for using another system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:04, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Also there is one more point I'd like to make, though I'm not 100% sure about it. I think that the ref system is properly transferred during the use of template insertions like compiling into Full Text pages. I'm sure that problem was addressed during the development of the ref system. Though we might have to run some tests to make sure. But hey, it will solve the problem in the full text version's references if I'm right, right? Though I would like to point out that I not 100% sure about it. Maybe 85%. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:11, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Okay I just checked SAO's [[Sword_Art_Online:Volume_4]] page, the references '''do''' transfer seamlessly. That's point 5 for the ref system (100% sure now). Come on I'm sure there must be some positive points for letting the current system stay. No system is without benefits. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:20, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Hummmm....It starts to become a bit heated. So I recommend you to post it in the forums. Of course, posting politely will be asked. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 23:24, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, you're right. I apologize for that. But you know. I'm not asking for a full change in the whole website. Just recommending a change in Hidan no Aria's pages. If everyone believes that there are valid reasons for the system to stay this way then that is fine with me as well. I just want to know the reasons and feel that they are valid enough. I proposed this system not because I like or dislike it but because I sincerely believe that the ref system is better than the current one. That's why I gave the four... oops five now, reasons that I felt were beneficial to everyone. All of my reasons are legit. They actually do help better the site. I'm not too familiar with forums though so, if you really do want to take it there, it's fine so long as you provide a link for me. I just want this discussion to be resolved by professionally discussing the pros and cons of both systems. Not personal like or dislike. I'm fine with things being the way they are, I just need to be persuaded that there are better reasons for it to stay like this. That's all. It's just that no one is actually bringing forth any pros for the current system so far. There must be some if people prefer it, right? But I won't take reasons like "It's too much hard work or bothersome to change things now." I've already said I'm willing to do ''all'' the work if the ref system is implemented (I'm a ''really'' hard worker). Also ''one'' reason such as it won't look good is not enough. You have to have at least as many points as I do. (Tension breaker: If thou wishest to dissuade me, telleth me what advantages the current system hath. LOL.) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:24, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

@Zero I think what some of them meant is that Editing takes priority, so can the editors fix the English first?

@Vaelis Well actually, I'm in the process of changing my projects from Translator's Notes page to using "ref"s. All my new translations use "ref"s. ^_^

Just to share my experiences, initially I didn't like it because I have less control on the formatting. I used to use a separate page and provide back links to navigate back to the page the reader was on. But I found that the back links will work wrongly on the FULL TEXT version. Of course, I can use some programming tricks and some of the new wiki's extensions to overcome this maybe, but using "references" solve this problem easily, since I put my "Translator's Notes header" and <nowiki><references/></nowiki> under <nowiki><noinclude></noinclude></nowiki> at the footer. The FULL TEXT version will then not have reincludes of the "References", and I can just add the <nowiki><references/></nowiki> at the bottom of the FULL TEXT page easily. The backlinks are generated automatically. Another trivial advantage is that I can use the "name" id to share the same reference across a page (though normally I don't do that). Oh yeah, when I read using my tablet over a intermittent 3G connection, I'd prefer not to open a separate page. But the key issue I wanted to solve is the problem of lacking seamless backlinks from the notes. You can check out [[Itsuka Tenma no Kuro Usagi#itsuten_v1|Itsuten Volume 1]] or [[Densetsu no Yūsha no Densetsu#daiden vol1|Daiden Volume 1]] on how I utilized it. ^_^ --[[User:Larethian|larethian]] 01:27, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I agree editing takes priority. I am working side by side the posted translation to fix spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors. I even put in many of the external links that others miss. I'm saying I can do both jobs. That's just how much of a hard worker I am. And yeah. I had seen the backlink problem in the full text version. It comes due to having two reference lists, one the full pages own generated one, the second from the chapter pages themselves. I had already known that the '''noinclude''' tag makes sure that the text encapsulated is not shown when the page is encapsulated in another using <nowiki>{{Insert page name here}}</nowiki>. So I had thought that that would solve the problem. I actually have a long history of wikipedia and wiki editing spanning 5 years, and templates are my expertise. I'm glad there is someone in my support. Thanks. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:36, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I leave it to the editors, but unless I take the time to figure out this wiki works, (I'm not,) I'm going to continue to use off-page references. Actually, to tell the truth, your attitude makes me want to stab my eyeballs out. Not for any particular reason. Don't feel obliged to care, either. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 09:05, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Now, now, I agree I have suggested more than a few changes, but I had zero, and I mean 0%, ill intentions. And using the ref tag is not that hard. It will make your job easier, Yoake. So don't be so stubborn and try to think of all the possibilities that this site has to offer. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 10:32, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

I don't particularly mind not having off-page notes, rather, I agree with you, I like how seamless the transition is between the note and the text. However, I can hardly say the same for how you're going about with this. You're saying that you're doing this for the betterment of the site and not your personal preference, which is full retard, because this kind of thing is completely personal and subjective. It's like trying to decide whether Monet's or Picasso's works are better. Personally, I think a five year old draws better than Picasso. Or, Hemingway and Tolkien. Personally, I think Hemingway writes like a five year old. What you're doing is trying to provide reasons as to ''why'' you think Hemingway writes like a five year old, and then blowing other's points as invalid or 'not a reason' because they're subjective when that's exactly what you're doing. Then, you say: "I'm a hard worker," as if Hiro doesn't do his fair share of editing. And, how the hell does it make my job easier? What? It makes it easier for me to understand Japanese? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 10:51, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Rather than editing two pages and switching between them you can add the translation note on the same page, at the reference line, seamlessly. That's how your job can become easier. By cutting down the time it takes for you to write the external link to the translation page, opening the page and then writing the translation note at it's place. These three steps are cut down to one <nowiki><ref>Insert Transation note here</ref></nowiki>. I never said anyone was not a hard worker. I merely mentioned myself and my intentions were not to belittle anyone. I never shot down any of the points except the one where the words ''"Who cares?"'' were mentioned. If I was really as you say I am I would not have bothered with this discussion, at all. Instead I did bother with it. The only reason I really mentioned being a hard worker was to remove one problem: ''"Who would be willing to spend time on changing things?"'' You must admit that is a reason that influences most changes. So by saying I will do it and telling just how much of a hard worker I am, I am preventing the following thoughts: ''"It's too troublesome." "I don't wanna do it." "It'll take too long."'' If it really was for my personal preference I would not have given such rational reasons for the change. Now, I would like for you to give me rational reasons as to why the current system is better than the reference system, which ''is used'' by some projects on this site. I'm an not adverse to having the current system, as long as you can actually give me some real points for it. And besides, it's not like I will suddenly start converting anything without approval. I don't see why you're being so hostile. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:16, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

You want to hear what might be a real point to Vaelis? "I like it." Do we need any other points? All your points are just things that you like, therefore, his point carries the exact same weight as all your points combined. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:08, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

What I'm trying to say is, rather than constructing this as a rational argument, which it's impossible to do so properly, it's a matter of personal preference. I mean, this decision mostly affects the readers, so the best thing to would be to ask them. Since you're good at wikis, is it possible to organize a poll or something in the front page? Rather, this is something that would be better measured with a majority, rather than points, which is a rather selfish way of doing things. It's simply not taking everyone's opinions into account, which is what something like this should do, rather than with rational points. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:48, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

But a poll without understanding the pros and cons of both systems just seems like a blind popularity contest to me (Example: A beauty contest with the girls hidden). Sorry, but my specialty in wikis is templates, what you're suggesting might involve bots and other complex mechanisms. I'm afraid I'm currently incapable of doing that. Even if it is my preference at least I did give pros for the reference system. Up until now, other than a small mention on the font style there has been absolutely no pros given forward for the current system despite my asking over and over (And I did ask over and over). Well, here's a compromise, how about putting this discussion on hold until all the translations are finished? It would give time to mull things over. I've seen giving a break to discussions helps clear up some things. Even I might change my mind. Or would you rather we keep on discussing? It does cut into translation/editing time doesn't it? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 07:30, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

The thing is, this is supposed to be a popularity contest. In essence, this change is based on what people like, whether they like having an off-page reference, or <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. I'm not really translating regularly, as exams are coming up, and it's not like I'm working set hours, so it's not wasting my translation time, as such. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

True. But every popularity contest has to have the subjects displayed and their advantages and disadvantages noted. But nobody even bothers to point out any advantages to the current system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] - [[User Talk:Zero2001]] - 14:07, 31 May 2011

Advantages: Translator can put whatever the hell she wants without inhibition XD. Doesn't mess up the aesthetics of the page, (for some.) Allows for additional information to be put where necessary. Makes it easier to keep track of. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

Nice debate. Well even if you do a poll I don't know if anyone will vote. You could just make a thread about this and stick a poll in there if you want. But, as a reader, I can clearly say that having refs on the same page is better. Honestly though, it makes nearly no difference whatsoever, majority of readers won't care too much either way. Since this is the case, whatever is more convenient for the translator should be used. I mean... this is baka-tsuki. You have minimal contact with your readers anyways, so just do what you want.--[[User:Blackfaia|Blackfaia]] 00:04, 12 June 2011 (UCT)

== quick question ==

Who's on the cover of volume 8? I don't recognize her. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:32, 5 June 2011 (UCT)

See here: ***SPOILER*** http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3574281#post3574281 ***SPOILER*** --[[User:Remotemine|Remotemine]]

== Problem: Incomplete Translations ==

So yea, the problem I would like to address is the one regarding '''incomplete translations'''.

The translators '''have not finished volume 8''' yet they start on 9? How will the readers get a full experience if they can't read the whole thing?

I would love to translate but unfortunately, I'm not fluent in Japanese. I'm not here to bitch, I'm just trying to resolve a problem. This post may become irrelavant as the translations progress, but as of now, I see incomplete translations.

Thanks for your attention,

-Kuro Light XIII

Same here, I would love to continue reading, but unfortunately there aren't any translations. So please, if you can translate it. I would help if i could ...

As I posted on Kuro's talk page, the reason why people translate after an unfinished volume is that we should keep the greatest constancy possible. Meaning that there's a max of 2 translators per volume, and preferably only one. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] ([[User_talk:Kira0802|Talk]]) 16:31, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Thx for the reply. So that means that volume 8 is currently with no translator... can you give a date by which the tranlation is complete(if you can manage to get a translator for that volume). If you can I would be very grateful...

There still hasn't been any progress with the translations of vol 8 since I last checked... please someone translate it,, im begging you -KuroLightXIII

man guys i love the anime guys and was so excited becuz of the light novel but found out that it only till 8 volume are complete....im on my

knees mann to anyone who are willing to take time off from real life to translate this piece of novel... honestly im being a bitch here becuz

im irritated it like watching clannad after story without watching it ending or angel beats without the tearful ending or code geass and just

watching the 1st season... but im still thankful for translating this work till volume 7 - loyal fan

As much as I want to agree with you guys about the incomplete translations, I'm asking you to please stop this kind discussion. Asking them to quickly finish translating can be a very rude thing (it depends on how you view it though) and this is something that I've recently understood as well. The translators are doing this without any type of monetary reward and requires a lot of sacrifice on their part. As those that cannot even contribute to the novel's translation, we show our appreciation to them by saying thanks and try to give them some moral support with words but that's it. You should understand as well how hard it is to cope with real life matters especially since it's more important than translating LNs for free. The only thing we can do now is pray that someone will be willing to complete the translations and at the same time show our appreciation to the ones who finished the earlier volumes. If you guys still want the translations to be finished, you can try asking some translators that's almost finished with their project to continue with this one once they're done but don't persist if they refuse. They've done their part and that's more than enough. A more definite solution would be to learn the Japanese language ourselves and buy the LNs. This way you don't bother the translators and you're also supporting the authors who we should ultimately give thanks to for writing the LNs in the first place. - Cataccountant

Hello, I am not currently a translator for baka tsuki, but I would like to become one. I have 2 years of Japanese schooling, 5 months of living there on exchange, and a ridiculous amount of anime that I have watched. I am a native English speaker with a tendency to read every book I enjoy within a few hours, so there shouldn't be many problems with vocabulary. I would like to try translating Hidan no Aria if possible, unfortunately I have not yet found a local store to pick up the untranslated volumes. If I am able to get access to the Japanese version I would happily work on translation. Please let me know if this would be possible, and if there is another way to get the raw versions.
Thanks,
- 0Starkller0

@0Starkller0 --Before I bought my real copies, I always found my JP raw volumes over at jCafe. Just a few weeks ago they were still available there so you should still be able to find them pretty quickly. Hope that helps a bit. Good Luck! --[[User:Fallton13|Fallton13]]
Thanks, I got my copy of volume 10 already, 8 and 11 are in the mail. Ordered them from kinokuniya online store. - 0Starkiller0

Hey, i was wondering if you are really going to translate HnA and if yes are you going to finish volume 8 or jump right into one of the untranslated volumes? - Daeverius

I hope translator can quickly finish volume 8 and 9. because I can not read in Japanese, sincerly I beg for translator to finish it. Thanks.

Volume 14, HNA will probably be published this month. There's no one to translate the volumes 10,11,12,13? Please. Thank you.

== Image Editing ==
Went ahead and edited the images from volume 1 to volume 7, I'll continue with them as translators finish their job translating, so once volume 8 and 9 get properly finished i'll work on the images for these volumes. --[[User:Krytyk|Krytyk]] ([[User talk:Krytyk|talk]]) 19:37, 15 December 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the hard work. I'll wait vol 8 & 9 eagerly.

Thanks for the translation. I'll be eagerly awaiting the volumes 10, 11, 12 and 13

I hope the translation vol. 10 finish soon. I'am looking forward for it. thanks [[User:Zerocrack|Zerocrack]] ([[User talk:Zerocrack|talk]]) 21:06, 10 June 2013 (CDT)

== 10th Volume ==

How come the second chapter is already done while chapter 1 has not seen major advance since last August? --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 05:54, 7 February 2013 (CST)

Because the ones working are different Translators | [[User:Koakuma|Koakuma]] ([[User talk:Koakuma|talk]]) 07:02, 7 February 2013 (CST)

== AfterWord/Author's Notes ==
Hey guys just curious as to why there aren't any of the afterwords/author's notes for HnA at all. I noticed that they actually do exists, and I am wondering if its on purpose or is it just forgotten? I wonder if anyone else would be interested in doing them with me if you guys think we should add them in for completions sake. -- [[User:Royaloyalz|Royaloyalz]] ([[User talk:Royaloyalz|talk]]) 06:37, 8 February 2013 (CST)

I can't speak on behalf of previous translators to say why they haven't been done, but they definitely exist. They're really quite short, so I'll see about taking a stab at them.
--[[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] ([[User talk:Hiyono|talk]]) 09:56, 8 February 2013 (CST)

== So. ==

What would it take for a commissioned translation effort? I'm willing to offer. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 17:24, 5 May 2013 (CDT)

I don't see what you mean.
--[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]]

== Original Sources ==

Currently I'm only working as a full-time editor. If anyone can point me to Chinese sources for chapters 10-14, I shall translate for you guys ASAP. Just saying, the project supervisor has dropped this project though the translators and editors are still at work. Please bear with it.

[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 00:05, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

Try to contact one of the translators, since the projects at this wiki are mainly translated fro chinese, with the direct translation from japanese on second place. (Though there's always someone to check the correct terms from japanese sources. --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 19:08, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Hi, please do not openly talk about "raws" which have a connotation of illegally scanned copyright infringement. In theory, you should own the actual book you're translating from. Anyway, if you're looking for Chinese sources, you should be aware of lightnovel.cn, which is sort of the Chinese equivalent of Baka-Tsuki:
http://lknovel.lightnovel.cn/main/vollist/66.html

And Kemm: please do not insult translators such as js06, Teh_Ping, Tap, Code-Zero, hayashi_s, stellarroze, etc (just to name a few) who actually translate from Japanese to English. On what basis do you assert that Japanese translation is secondary? Even in the case of Hidan no Aria, YoakeNoHikari switched from Chinese to Japanese sources quite early on.

--[[User:Zzhk|Zzhk]] ([[User talk:Zzhk|talk]]) 19:46, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Thanks, I've already started to translate Volume 10. I'm not supposed to translate Chapter 1, but I'm already 90% done on my private copy. Waiting for Yoake to reply to my registration though.

I see what you mean by copyright infringement, but I really can't find any on the Singapore market. I would say that this is for "private use" though. Please forgive me.
[[User:KanzakiAria|KanzakiAria]] ([[User talk:KanzakiAria|talk]]) 00:05, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

Zzhk, I know that there are translators who translate directly from japanese, and was about to include it on my previous post, but didn't know how to fit it; what I meant is that, going by quantity, I have found that, for some reason, they number less than those who make use of chinese sources (that's why "second place"). And when I talk about "raws" (though maybe I'm misusing it) I don't mean only so-called "public raws" (illegal) but also physical copies (that can be bought or lent) and digitalizations of owned copies for personal use (so as to no have to translate with one hand on the keyboard and the other turning pages, being able to read it on your PC, laptop or e-book reader or for preservation purposes). --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 06:31, 27 June 2013 (CDT)

Talk:Hidan no Aria Archived

2013-05-05T22:24:36Z

LB Kasen: /* So. */ new section

== Translation ==
I've been wondering... did the translators working on this put it on hiatus? becuase ive noticed that for the longest time, there has been no progress
Yo... the author of this series... he uses a pen name right? He's not actually named "middle school" right?

Hey I've been editing lately. I've found Kinji's last name spelled Tohyama and Tooyama, we should keep his name uniform at least. I'm gonna change them all to Tohyama, Tooyama is awkward for me for some reason. -blackfaia

nice novel, with a monthly manga and a coming anime

I wanted to compliment the translators on the speed and quality of their translation. You guys are dropping these volumes one by one, thank for your hard work.

WHERE ARE THE TRANSLATORS XD WHY WON'T THEY REPLY! WHY WONT THEY LET ME TRANSLATE >_<!!!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 08:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not just continue translating until they reply?

start translating from ch 3 so you are sure you won't translate the same thing^^

Mr. Seoulfighter, please lend us your godly powers and translate this LN, thank you very much ~Ghost

Fine I'll start picking this up soon since I've received no contact from the other translators, and realized it's never been updated. but right now I have to find a job to help pay for college -.-... my dad wasted my tuition on my stepmother... WASTED 35,000$ on her jewelry and clothes(tears)!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 02:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

:That's sad. Sometimes I wonder how parents can be this cruel and selfish... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
::If this happened to me, I'd give those parents of mine a MASSIVE chewing out. I mean seriously, WTF? Well, good luck to you though Seoulfighter.

you have my sympathy Seoulfighter-san. Your tuition fee must be the top priority because it is the job of the parents to make sure their children graduate from school... Thanks again ~ Ghost

don't worry abouts TL and think about yourself, Real Life has top priority^^(even if this will make us a little sad)

I got contacted by the original translator, and Undying told me that his hard drive got wiped so he won't be working on this project. I guess for now, while I wait for a reply from the places I applied to I'll do some translating.

As for my parents if I tried to chew them out my dad would start a Socratic Seminar about how my line of logic is flawed and his is correct this lasts for 3 HOURS and can go up to 6 if I argue... my mom is poor, and my dad sold my car(My dad had 3 cars one of which he had originally planned on giving to me.) and gave that money to my sister.
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 18:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

:Your mom is poor? Step-mom or real mom?

::My Real mom who has a job... and my step-mom who is leeching off my father... both are poor. - seoulfighter

:::I get the feeling that you don't really like your stepmom...

children suffered because of their irresponsible parents.... Hang-on seoulfighter ~ Ghost

Your dad doesnt like you (anymore)? You haven't made him angry, did you? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 20:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
^^Your confidence made me lol. Either his father doesn't like him now, or his father never liked him... I will cry now.

lol No my dad never said he doesn't like me. He says he loves me like all his children =.=... which is meaningless considering all of us were kicked out to accommodate my stepmother... As for what I did to piss him off. He asked me during college to be a dog that just studies and stay in my room, and listen to every command he gives me =.=. What would YOU do if your parents said those words to you... Then said they only have your best interest in mind...
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 06:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all parents' words are correct, they are also human who commit mistakes. Have you talked about how you feel with your father? Maybe you and your father misunderstood each other. Misunderstanding might cause great conflict on the future. ~ Ghost

I have talked to him sat down face to face and tried to sort it out. The only thing that ended up happening is that he said I'm being illogical. He said he couldn't understand why I can't just listen to everything he says and have faith that every decision he's making for me is the best for me =.=. I'll start translating some more to blow off some steam >_<!
--[[User:Seoulfighter|Seoulfighter]] 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Man, your life's almost like a mix between Hayate No Gotoku and Cinderalla, you have my sympathy. ~ Aussie Curry.

wow... just finished reading the last chapter of volume one... I must say... chapter 5 is basically as long as the first 4 chapters combined... I'll refrain from giving spoilers but that was really an unexpected twist that I should have seen coming...

its almost a month or more since the last update..... any news? This and <sword art online> made me craving for more LOL ~ghost

Last time I checked, Spadey was approximately 42% done. Expect chapter 5 to be completed at least by the end of this month, if not the next.
--[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 05:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want, I can give you some spoilers on both this and SAO --[[User:Eveonder|Eveonder]] 05:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

ow thanks for the update! and about the spoiler... thanks but I will wait for the complete chapter ^^ --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]]

did he used the word dog?REAlly? wow i know who is in the (hell)list--[[User:Cognitio|Cognitio]]

Here i go again and asking for the status LOL --[[User:Ghost|Ghost]] 10:35 , 15 October 2010 (GMT + 8:00)

Since the manga release at snail pace....I am waiting for the last chapter here... [[User:xenocross|xenocross]]

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --[[User:Asian InvAsian|Asian InvAsian]] 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Summary of previous discussion: Translator is trying to go to school. Has problems. Will gambatte. Our heartfelt approval.
--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 20:28, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

--I don't know how else to contact translators of this series, so I'll post here. Seeing as the anime adaption is coming out in around a week, I'm guessing there will be a lot more views of this series. As such, I wouldn't mind if the translators spit out a roughly translated version of the next few volumes, I have 2+ hours a day I can spend fixing up English, I can probably revise a chapter a day if need be. --[[User:Asteradragon|Asteradragon]] 8:52, 6 March 2011 (EST)

--Speed translating is an insult to the craft. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 21:55, 10 April 2011 (UCT)

Only if it's done horribly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:01, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

The anime is out now.. thats what brought me here. If you do decide to do a fast translation I would like to add that I can also edit anything you put out. -blackfaia

Vol 8 ?

Are their any plans to continue translating this series? Because it seems volume 8 and 9 in particular are almost done but their hasn't been any updates in quite some time...

Yo anyone want Vol 14? ISBN978-4-8401-4932-7 http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/bunkoj/book_detail/945 - Sexy

We need volume 8 and 9, to have pdf versions since they are finished [[User:Zeru|Zeru]] ([[User talk:Zeru|talk]]) 00:36, 23 January 2013 (CST)

...Look, all the pdfs are done by fans. BT doesn't have a staff per say. Bottom line, do your own pdfs, or wait for a fan to do up one.--[[User:Teh Ping|Teh Ping]] ([[User talk:Teh Ping|talk]]) 07:55, 23 January 2013 (CST)

==The Anime==

The Anime is starting today or tomorrow, does anyone have some hope for it? --[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 12:40, 14 April 2011 (UCT)

Slightly disappointing, but they do have to condense a lot of things in anime, so I'm not going to be too critical - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:13, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I can't say I disagree, but so far it doesn't look to bad. Though I have to admit I don't think Aria's voice is quite right, it just feels slightly wrong.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 18:28, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

A bit too cutesy for my taste, but that's Kugyuu for you - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

But the seiyu voice fits. I did think Aria's mannerisms were a lot similar to Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, but they went even further and added a dash of Nagi from Hayate no Gotoku, Aria's voice could not be in better hands since Kugimiya-san did both. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I don't know, it just seemed a bit too "squeeky" or a little too grating to fit with the character, at least that is what I think from reading the first 3 books.--[[User:Darn2k|Darn2k]] 21:42, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

そうだった。She's described as having a Seiyuu like voice, so they can't go wrong there. XD However, I did think her voice would be slightly lower, possibly a more Shana-like tone. Anyways, do you guys like the OP/ED - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 22:00, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

My Opinions: OP = 3.5/5 , ED 2/5. Some parts of the OP sounded similar to Asura Cryin's OP (to me at least), loved that one. Fav. part from ep 1 (+ -)"Aaaa, Watashi no magazine!!!". BTW how far do you think the anime will cover the story? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 04:01, 17 April 2011 (UCT)

Shows ended now and it seems the DVD/Blu-Ray of vol.1 of the anime did not sell well enough for a second season so far. Thinking I am gonna have to stick to just reading the story here.[[User:ROOMA4HELL|ROOMA4HELL]] 04:39, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

== Picture Positioning ==

I'd like to discuss and debate about the picture positioning in the light novel chapter parts. Currently the pictures are being placed in such an order as to mimic the light novel position. (ie: text page ends picture page begins). However I believe that this is problematic to be used ''here'' because in reading a light novel one can see the picture page as well as the text page side by side when they open onto that page thus allowing easy comparison between the line and it's corresponding picture. But here, due to the layout being continuous it does not allow the corresponding to occur so smoothly. Instead the reader passes the line that the picture corresponds to and finds the image 10 to 20 lines below that right next to text lines that have either little or absolutely no relation to the picture at all. I acknowledge the argument that this is how the author wished it to be, however I wish to make a point that this was because of the very basic format of all books. No matter what page you open to, unless you fold one side to the back there will always be two pages before you. So I have two ideas to give here:
# Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them.
# Mark the end of each page with a <nowiki>----</nowiki> to insert a line signifying the end of a novel page(like demonstrated below) and making the pictures bigger so they may seem page sized as well.

----

:3. Make no changes and let the text and pictures remain unmatched.

Wow that's three. LOL. Personally, I believe the first idea is the best even if it does go against the original ordering. Does anyone have any objections and explanations as to why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UCT)

<s>I'll go with the first option. Initially, I thought that the picture placement was just some kind or bug or error or something. It didn't really occur to me that that was intentional. ;) Anyway, it will help the reader identify the scene and image better, since the picture is placed beside or near the accompanying text.</s> My ignorance is showing, sorry about that. Anyway, I read (or looked at a page, trying to find a word I know) the source and the images are pretty much around where they are here, the only difference being the format (page-to-page vs continuous). Cross-referenced other series (specifically ZnT) and the editing is the same. So even though it's not spot on, it is how the page is intended w/ the only difference being format. So I guess, 3rd option? [[User:Seyrine|s13]] 16:05, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not putting the pictures anywhere else. Each author chooses where to put their pictures for a very specific reason. If you think it doesn't correspond well, then minimize a picture of the photo and read it side by side.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:34, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

The OP is not incorrect that you can see the pictures side by side when you're reading it, but I prefer to just put it in at the end of the page, because, well...that's just how I see it. Putting it at the beginning would not necessarily be incorrect, but it's nice to read something before you look at the picture for it, which is the author's intent. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:09, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

What you are saying ''is'' partly true. But only in cases where the picture relating to the text is on the ''backside'' of the related text page. When it is on the page on the side it is obviously there so that the picture and the text could be easily referenced. Even here because of the picture's size it can be made to look as though it is right next to the page. That is what I believe the author's original intention is. I'm not wrong am I? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 17:16, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Rather I would say that because of the transition from side-by-side to continuous format the resulting positions of the pictures are something the author had not originally wanted, wouldn't you agree? As such shouldn't we choose from point 1 or 2 and not 3 regardless of how it's being done in the other light novels pages? Isn't it only correct that we do this? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Finally from what you have been saying, it seems that you want the format to be as follows:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

but instead it's '''''actually''''' like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
''text'' '''page3''' ''picture'' '''page2'''

'''Note:''' Point 1 would make it like this:

''text'' '''page1''' ''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
''text'' '''page3'''

whereas Point 2 would show it like this:

''text'' '''page1'''<br>
----
''picture'' '''page2'''<br>
----
''text'' '''page3'''

So which format would you prefer. According to this, even the current format is actually against the original author's wishes, isn't it?  [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 12:43, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

give it a few days before concluding that people are not answering. some of us are busy people in RL. besides, not everyone watches the pages, or are able to sift through the flood of "recent changes" to find their object of interest. bring it to the forums in that case. begging your pardon, as a translator, I think this is so trivial that I won't even waste time debating or discussing it. discussing stuff like terminologies such as the butei articles is more constructive than a few image placements, and there are very few indeed; begging your pardon again. if you really want to, you can set up a poll in the forums, but that would only make sense if a lot of people are actually concerned with this topic of interest. whatever the case, the supervisor (or translators) makes the final decision. on a side note, given that this is relatively popular project, nobody posting means no one cares about this? and sorry for my typing because I hate caps hahaha :3 --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 13:17, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

No problem. I do understand and it was my intention to wait. Plus the purpose of this topic is to persuade the editors and as stated in my previous post ''(see hidden text)'' the comment was just for motivation and I apologized to those who would take it the wrong way, finally I didn't actually say anything wrong, only laughed ''(evilly yes but only laughed)'', LOL. Besides, if my intention was not to persuade through discussion and debating the issue I wouldn't have started this in the first place. Trivial, it might be on face, but I still think it is worth discussing because of it's deeper implications. Plus if nobody cares doesn't that mean that any format is applicable? I think that is wrong, which is why I wish to confirm others views on this. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:46, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

I didn't say that you are saying something wrong. It's just my opinion that it's a trivial thing, just as it's in your opinion that it's important. Different opinions that's all. No right or wrong. --[[User:Larethian|Larethian]] 14:06, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

True. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:49, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Yes indeed. Going over the previous posts I see that this is indeed a difference in opinion. Clarity is indeed needed. My opinion is that of a single reader, what's yours? Oh and we might need other readers' opinions as well, after all I am not the only one or a representative of all the readers. No, not at all. Thus more input from both sides would be appreciated. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:42, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Hmm... I wouldnt see any reason to do it different as it is done in the other translations... - aka text page / picture page / text page, but if you like you could put the corresponding line also under the picture (like it was done for Haruhi) to get a matching effect... --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

Yeah that is being done here and there. But it still feels weird to scroll down a whole screen or two just to get to the picture that matches the text, especially when in the book the text-picture pages are side-by-side '''(See the layout example a few posts back for details)''. ''(After checking)'' See, the picture's still side-by-side even here, just with the wrong text page, so to speak. I'm proposing we correct that. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step but if we don't take the first step how will the journey begin? So why not take the first step when the result is an improvement? If it's a problem of time consumption while revising previous chapters then can't you let me take care of that detail. That way the translators won't have to stop their work. I can do it all within a few hours, albeit a bit roughly in the cases where the picture does not have labels. But even so. It's actually better than setting it next to the wrong page start. As said before I believe setting the picture, next to the page, after the one it is meant for (ie:

'''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text'' | '''page2''': ''picture''

) is not how the author wished it, though this is just my view as a reader. But it does hold some water, no? We could even switch the ordering around to make it even closer to the original format like so:

'''page2''': ''picture'' | '''page1''': ''text''<br>
'''page3''': ''text''

What do you think? Oh and the offer, of me doing it if translators too busy translating, still stands. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 01:50, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

My opinion: remove the stupid text under the pictures and "Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them."

That's how I do it for every series [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 07:53, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not too busy translating, I'm too busy reading other things. Just because I translate this fanatically doesn't mean I don't have a mountain of other things to read/watch. As it stands, I'm practicing my Japanese by reading Mayo Chiki!, which is kind of a weird order, but that's irrelevant.

My opinion: I don't care enough to argue about it. If you're so horribly against putting it down there, then change it, but as I translate, I'm going to keep doing it the way it is currently. If you want to change it, then just do so after I put it in. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 18:09, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

That's fine with me. So to confirm, I can set the picture next to the related text while revising and there won't be an edit war over it, right? Cause that's really scary. This one time... Oh well that's... well, forget that. Anyway, I have permission to match text with pictures while revising, right? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, can I? Can I? Can I? Pleeeease? ''(Hoppity, hoppity, hop)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:42, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

At this point, I couldn't care less. If such a trivial thing irks you so badly, then by all means, go ahead and change it. I certainly won't be wasting time and effort to change it back. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:05, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Thank you! (Nyari) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:14, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

== Fuuma's speech to be changed==

I would like to change all of Fuumas "I" to "Oneself"/"myself" or "this one". Anything along those lines represent the "Sessha" she uses to refer to herself.
I would like opinions on this matter, for while "Myself/oneself" is my favorite, it should be the most easily-read one that prevails.

--[[User:Novium|Novium]] 22:59, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&p=82653#p82653

Forum backlink.

--------
An example would make things more clear. Though personally I think it a pretty good idea. It does conform to the ancient/honorable/humble manner of speaking. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 18:46, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

<nowiki>*</nowiki>Facepalm*. You know what, let's just change all of Patra's "I"s to "My Majesty". Also, "Myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Me myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "This unworthy one hasn't been able to meet with you for a while."

I'm not budging. This is ''not'' open to discussion. How does a servant refer to himself in front of his lord in ''English''? "Your lord master, your servant hasn't grown enough crops this year."?. That's what somebody says when they speak to God. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

--------

Yoake also has a point. But check this page out as well. It might help. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeism Illeism]. Just keeping an open mind here. I mean fansubbing translators usually do try and keep the Japanese manner of speech in their work rather than completely going English. The exotic manner is rather appealing. Just a thought though. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

I have an idea of how to completely retain the meaning. I write warawa or sessha and then link to the wikipedia page. That sound good? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:28, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

That is also a good idea. AH! Found it! This link would be better: ''http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns''. For Archaic references like ''sessha'' appending ''#Archaic_personal_pronouns'' would help ''(subsection link)'' [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:36, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I was actually joking because that's amazingly retarded and nobody really cares enough, but, whatever floats your boat. Good luck fitting warawa in when I used me rather than I to refer to her. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, I'm being rude on purpose. I feel that the English language has no way of showing how bad of an idea I think this is if I don't resort to vulgarity. Rather, 'better; is a comparative phrase, and since I never actually mentioned a noun to which to compare to, a better word would be 'good'. At any rate, これは全然ひどい、全然無意味、全然迷惑なことって絶対変わらず。 - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 19:47, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

----------
I see. But you also do have a point. Not everyone would be able to understand right off the bat that way. Oh well. By the way they actually did used to say ''"My liege, your servant requests permission to withdraw."'' or ''"Your servant would like to beg forgiveness for his tardiness."'' Rankings in the Royal court did actually effect the manner of speech greatly. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 19:54, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't make Fuuma say 'your student'. Please. Please. Please. Please. Fansubbers can translate how they want, the seas could boil and the Earth would crack, but don't make a ninja call herself 'your student' in front of Kinji. There's an t/l note already, can we let it go? I'll make a concession and expand on it as well as adding a link.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 20:03, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Naze nara... kore wa zenzen hidoi, zenzen muimi, zenzen meiwaku na koto ka? LOL. Jodan desu. Yes explaining in more detail in the Translation Notes and References pages is also another good idea/option. Actually I think it is the best one yet. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 20:10, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

-----------
There is one short reference. But seriously Yoake, please consider what I am proposing seriously.
I'd like to stress that I am not attacking your translations here; I'm giving an opionion, not demanding word-by-word translations. If this insults you, I apologize for not putting it in kinder words.
But I won't have you being rude without properly hearing me out. It is demeaning.

Now, back to the matter itself:

There are archaic english that would properly convey the nuance of her speech; and I belive it would be worth the effort to try getting it across.
Now, I don't want to be harsly spoken, and I respect you work Yoake - In fact I really enjoy it. I just think we should be able to work something out to make it more along the authors intentions.I myself am not a native speaker, but I can see how:

"Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," should be written as "One has not been able to meet Instuctor for a while", reflecting the inpersonal part of sessha, and the second-part reference to oneself. Hasn't and the like are actually a good idea in my opinion, but they can be written to make a point of reflecting speech-patterns instead of as a rule.
As for Patra, aren't a royal "We" sufficient to reflect her nature coupled with a notice in the text?

In fact, most light novels translations fail on this part and I think everyone here could try to figure something out together instead of bashing the notion. Is that too much to ask for from a free wiki?
I sure don't think so.

Is this insufficient? I think that we should be able to see merit in this proposal.

With respect / --[[User:Novium|Novium]] 00:07, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Well done, great explanation. Strong points. What do you think Yoake? There is ''some'' weight in the arguments is there not? Indeed such ways of speaking have been used in ancient literature as well as medieval times. And yes, in English the use of the words "We" and "Us" are plural forms however they were used by royals to refer to themselves (them being the leader/representative of their people probably brought on that effect). The use of plural form is regarded as a sign of great respect in many languages. That is a hard fact. Humility also meant referring to oneself in the third-person. The arguments are indeed sound. Are they not? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:27, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

A famous example of the use of "One" and "Oneself" for self referral is the character of Andrew Martin in the film [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicentennial_Man_%28film%29 Bicentennial Man]. It chronicles the story of a robot and his journey into humanity. Before being ordered by his master to use "I" Andrew referred to himself as "one" or "oneself" as originally programmed to do so. It's a wonderful and beautiful story, you guys should try seeing it sometime. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 02:35, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

No.

Third person referral has a completely different meaning in Japanese. Since there is no equivalent for one, third person referral through using their names such as Riko saying "Riko" instead of I is a very feminine style of speech. As such, I'm not willing to use any third person. Go look at the forum. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I've read the forum posts. Now I understand why "One" or "Oneself" is not used here for "Sessha". It might be equivalent in some respects but not exactly. I see. I learned something new. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 13:50, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I can agree with the royal "we". That's it. = [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 15:14, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

See, discussions can actually help improve oneself if you see them in a certain way. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:10, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I am not a translator or even an editor and therefore have less value than the dirt on your shoes. But in light of my self-deprecation I hope you will accept my opinion. I agree with Yoake. Even someone referring to themselves as 'we' is a little weird to read in English, since it is not something that anyone ever does, unless they are a faggot. (forgive me) Imagine someone calling themselves we... If you want to create a suitably "exotic" atmosphere I think including suffixes after names, and leaving some nouns untranslated (but obviously in romaji) is good enough. -blackfaia

That's only because there are very few countries nowadays where kings and queens reign in full power (England has royalty but they're only figureheads). However, the royal terms "we" and "us" have been historically proven to be used. Pity English doesn't have honorific terms for the word "you" other than "Thee". Just an info tip. Not trying to revive this talk. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 03:45, 28 May 2011 (UCT)

== Question about Translation Notes ==

Why are the translation notes and references on a separate page when they can be even more easily shown as a list at the bottom of each chapter via use of the '''ref''' tag? It's so bothersome to have to either navigate to a new page or open it in a new tab or window just to see a small note. Using the '''ref'''erence tag allows for in-page navigation (ie: new page doesn't need time to load, screen just zeros in on the reference or back to text ''without'' page loading). So why? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

Well its ''even'' more bothersome if you have to look up these references yourself. HnA is a light novel that has a substantial number of references and allusions to famous people, furthermore it is up to the translators creed. Also how is it that difficult to click on translation notes that simply opens a new page? Unless the readers are just being lazy. This really seems like a trivial matter to me. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 16:47, 23, May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well. Readers '''are''' lazing around, according to the elderly. LOL. But seriously, ''as a reader'' I would prefer having the translation notes at the bottom of the page rather than opening a new page. It might be lazy but it is ''faster'' in loading/navigation. If it's a problem of too much trouble I'd be happy to do it for you guys. I just think making a '''whole''' new/separate page for those notes is ''wasteful''. "A new page + data" takes more space than simply "data at the bottom of an already existing page". [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 21:36, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, it might be useful when you transform it unto a PDF format. Speaking of PDF, can someone go edit V2? [[User:Kira0802|きら]] 23:06, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

I can edit HnA volume 2 since I have nothing else to do atm Kira0802. Here's my opinion as a reader: just leave it as it is, this is such a trivial matter. If the reader wants such high-quality material, then they could learn the language and simply buy the light novels. Also, note that some translators do not bother making said these references at all, whether its the translation notes or foot notes at the bottom. -[[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 00:10, 24, May 2011 (UCT)

Sorry, but learning the language takes years of hard work. Plus not every country has access to places that actually sell the light novels. The reason people come to online light novel, manga and anime sites is ''because'' they '''don't want''' to wait. But even if it does seem like a trivial thing, there are benefits to it:

# People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)
# Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)
# Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing.
# Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')

I'd be happy if you can give me points that can legitimately favor leaving the translation notes on a separate page. If it's just because of the trouble of doing the work I said I can do it. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Instead of worrying about the convenience of foot notes vs translation notes, editing takes priority. There are still a number of HnA volumes and chapters that still needs editing and proofreading. That should be your first responsibility as an editor. Although if you still feel so strongly about this issue, then its best to take it to the forums. The translators and supervisors get the last say in regards to this issue. [[User:Hiro Hayase|Hiro Hayase]] 17:31, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Here's my suggestion. If you're so bothered by this, Zero, then we can make a short reference at the bottom. If you want a more detailed, then we'll use the TL note&ref. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 18:07, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Let's look at the different points:

"1. People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)" -> the page with the translation's note are only text, it's really small.

"2. Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)" -> if it's '''well done''', you can easily go back and forth between the two. I know it's not the case right now but the editors should learn how to do it, it's not that hard.

"3. Internal links are automatically generated when using '''ref''' tag making it easier for the translator while writing." -> it's not the translator's job but the editor's job.

"4. Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an ''already existing page'')" -> who cares?

Anyway you can look at every BT projects and I'm almost sure that all of them put reference notes on a separate page and personally I like it this way. I don't want to see tl notes who pollute the bottom of the page of the translation. So if you want an argument then it's aesthetic, and I always privilege it. [[User:Vaelis|Vaelis]] 18:45, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

[[Sword Art Online]] doesn't and I think it looks good. But as to your counters:

# Even if the page is small it ''still'' takes time to load. Time which could be further shortened by using the ref tag. The ref tag ''exists'' for this reason.
# Why bother doing something the more complex way when you can do it the easier way. Oh... and there is no way to make a backlink to the referring text unless you actually make subsections in the chapters when using different pages for the translation notes (Something that will mess up the natural ordering of the chapter). But ref tagging allows '''not only''' to generate an automatic link ''to the note'' but a ''backlink'' to the referring text. Ref tagging is a legit and popular way to add reference notes, used in all wikias and wikipedia sites as well. This site seems to be a model of those and ref tags are here as well. So why not use it??? Furthermore it will allow for a more interactive experience. People can scroll down to the references and use the back link to check the referring text as they see fit. (ie: using the link for reference 1 but then catching sight of the next reference note 2 and using the backlink to check the referred text for ''that'' note. Not everyone just reads through the whole thing once, you know).
# Translation notes are the translator's job. But that's not even a valid point. So what if it was the editor's job. I'm not talking about external links here like names like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan Genghis Khan], I'm talking mainly about the translation notes that should normally appear at the bottom of the page for easy referral and its links <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki>. I'm saying ref tagging makes not only the translator but the editor's job easier by taking the linking job off their hands. So why not use it? Plus the <nowiki>[1] [2] [3]</nowiki> are quite obviously a mimicry of the referral system. That's how the referral links are shown.
# "Who cares" is definitely not a valid argument. Isn't it always better to strive for advancement? Such terms only seek to arrest making something better. Why not just open your mind to the possibilities rather than closing it. I do have good and valid points. Don't shoot them down with such terms, it sounds wrong.

Finally I apologize if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack. That was not my intention. I only wished for something that actually allows for an improvement to the current system. Well mainly it is the backlinking. But it also is true that it saves website space, is that not a good thing? Saving space means more data can be saved, no? Well basically we will only be the space of the page container that will be reduced but every little bit helps, does it not? And complex coding can be avoided, is that not better? All one has to do is write so: <nowiki><ref>Enter translation note here</ref></nowiki> where the text that should refer is; instead of writing the external link <nowiki>[http://www.baka-tsuki.com/???]</nowiki> and then writing the translation notes in the page it refers to. Give it a thought, which process is more complex??? Also I don't thing any two humans have the exact same aesthetic sense. Why not think about the benefits of the ref system. And tell me of the benefits of the current system. I'm sure there must be some. I always concede when there are more benefits for using another system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:04, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Also there is one more point I'd like to make, though I'm not 100% sure about it. I think that the ref system is properly transferred during the use of template insertions like compiling into Full Text pages. I'm sure that problem was addressed during the development of the ref system. Though we might have to run some tests to make sure. But hey, it will solve the problem in the full text version's references if I'm right, right? Though I would like to point out that I not 100% sure about it. Maybe 85%. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:11, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Okay I just checked SAO's [[Sword_Art_Online:Volume_4]] page, the references '''do''' transfer seamlessly. That's point 5 for the ref system (100% sure now). Come on I'm sure there must be some positive points for letting the current system stay. No system is without benefits. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 23:20, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Hummmm....It starts to become a bit heated. So I recommend you to post it in the forums. Of course, posting politely will be asked. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] 23:24, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, you're right. I apologize for that. But you know. I'm not asking for a full change in the whole website. Just recommending a change in Hidan no Aria's pages. If everyone believes that there are valid reasons for the system to stay this way then that is fine with me as well. I just want to know the reasons and feel that they are valid enough. I proposed this system not because I like or dislike it but because I sincerely believe that the ref system is better than the current one. That's why I gave the four... oops five now, reasons that I felt were beneficial to everyone. All of my reasons are legit. They actually do help better the site. I'm not too familiar with forums though so, if you really do want to take it there, it's fine so long as you provide a link for me. I just want this discussion to be resolved by professionally discussing the pros and cons of both systems. Not personal like or dislike. I'm fine with things being the way they are, I just need to be persuaded that there are better reasons for it to stay like this. That's all. It's just that no one is actually bringing forth any pros for the current system so far. There must be some if people prefer it, right? But I won't take reasons like "It's too much hard work or bothersome to change things now." I've already said I'm willing to do ''all'' the work if the ref system is implemented (I'm a ''really'' hard worker). Also ''one'' reason such as it won't look good is not enough. You have to have at least as many points as I do. (Tension breaker: If thou wishest to dissuade me, telleth me what advantages the current system hath. LOL.) [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 00:24, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

@Zero I think what some of them meant is that Editing takes priority, so can the editors fix the English first?

@Vaelis Well actually, I'm in the process of changing my projects from Translator's Notes page to using "ref"s. All my new translations use "ref"s. ^_^

Just to share my experiences, initially I didn't like it because I have less control on the formatting. I used to use a separate page and provide back links to navigate back to the page the reader was on. But I found that the back links will work wrongly on the FULL TEXT version. Of course, I can use some programming tricks and some of the new wiki's extensions to overcome this maybe, but using "references" solve this problem easily, since I put my "Translator's Notes header" and <nowiki><references/></nowiki> under <nowiki><noinclude></noinclude></nowiki> at the footer. The FULL TEXT version will then not have reincludes of the "References", and I can just add the <nowiki><references/></nowiki> at the bottom of the FULL TEXT page easily. The backlinks are generated automatically. Another trivial advantage is that I can use the "name" id to share the same reference across a page (though normally I don't do that). Oh yeah, when I read using my tablet over a intermittent 3G connection, I'd prefer not to open a separate page. But the key issue I wanted to solve is the problem of lacking seamless backlinks from the notes. You can check out [[Itsuka Tenma no Kuro Usagi#itsuten_v1|Itsuten Volume 1]] or [[Densetsu no Yūsha no Densetsu#daiden vol1|Daiden Volume 1]] on how I utilized it. ^_^ --[[User:Larethian|larethian]] 01:27, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I agree editing takes priority. I am working side by side the posted translation to fix spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors. I even put in many of the external links that others miss. I'm saying I can do both jobs. That's just how much of a hard worker I am. And yeah. I had seen the backlink problem in the full text version. It comes due to having two reference lists, one the full pages own generated one, the second from the chapter pages themselves. I had already known that the '''noinclude''' tag makes sure that the text encapsulated is not shown when the page is encapsulated in another using <nowiki>{{Insert page name here}}</nowiki>. So I had thought that that would solve the problem. I actually have a long history of wikipedia and wiki editing spanning 5 years, and templates are my expertise. I'm glad there is someone in my support. Thanks. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 11:36, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I leave it to the editors, but unless I take the time to figure out this wiki works, (I'm not,) I'm going to continue to use off-page references. Actually, to tell the truth, your attitude makes me want to stab my eyeballs out. Not for any particular reason. Don't feel obliged to care, either. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 09:05, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Now, now, I agree I have suggested more than a few changes, but I had zero, and I mean 0%, ill intentions. And using the ref tag is not that hard. It will make your job easier, Yoake. So don't be so stubborn and try to think of all the possibilities that this site has to offer. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 10:32, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

I don't particularly mind not having off-page notes, rather, I agree with you, I like how seamless the transition is between the note and the text. However, I can hardly say the same for how you're going about with this. You're saying that you're doing this for the betterment of the site and not your personal preference, which is full retard, because this kind of thing is completely personal and subjective. It's like trying to decide whether Monet's or Picasso's works are better. Personally, I think a five year old draws better than Picasso. Or, Hemingway and Tolkien. Personally, I think Hemingway writes like a five year old. What you're doing is trying to provide reasons as to ''why'' you think Hemingway writes like a five year old, and then blowing other's points as invalid or 'not a reason' because they're subjective when that's exactly what you're doing. Then, you say: "I'm a hard worker," as if Hiro doesn't do his fair share of editing. And, how the hell does it make my job easier? What? It makes it easier for me to understand Japanese? - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 10:51, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Rather than editing two pages and switching between them you can add the translation note on the same page, at the reference line, seamlessly. That's how your job can become easier. By cutting down the time it takes for you to write the external link to the translation page, opening the page and then writing the translation note at it's place. These three steps are cut down to one <nowiki><ref>Insert Transation note here</ref></nowiki>. I never said anyone was not a hard worker. I merely mentioned myself and my intentions were not to belittle anyone. I never shot down any of the points except the one where the words ''"Who cares?"'' were mentioned. If I was really as you say I am I would not have bothered with this discussion, at all. Instead I did bother with it. The only reason I really mentioned being a hard worker was to remove one problem: ''"Who would be willing to spend time on changing things?"'' You must admit that is a reason that influences most changes. So by saying I will do it and telling just how much of a hard worker I am, I am preventing the following thoughts: ''"It's too troublesome." "I don't wanna do it." "It'll take too long."'' If it really was for my personal preference I would not have given such rational reasons for the change. Now, I would like for you to give me rational reasons as to why the current system is better than the reference system, which ''is used'' by some projects on this site. I'm an not adverse to having the current system, as long as you can actually give me some real points for it. And besides, it's not like I will suddenly start converting anything without approval. I don't see why you're being so hostile. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 16:16, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

You want to hear what might be a real point to Vaelis? "I like it." Do we need any other points? All your points are just things that you like, therefore, his point carries the exact same weight as all your points combined. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:08, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

What I'm trying to say is, rather than constructing this as a rational argument, which it's impossible to do so properly, it's a matter of personal preference. I mean, this decision mostly affects the readers, so the best thing to would be to ask them. Since you're good at wikis, is it possible to organize a poll or something in the front page? Rather, this is something that would be better measured with a majority, rather than points, which is a rather selfish way of doing things. It's simply not taking everyone's opinions into account, which is what something like this should do, rather than with rational points. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 17:48, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

But a poll without understanding the pros and cons of both systems just seems like a blind popularity contest to me (Example: A beauty contest with the girls hidden). Sorry, but my specialty in wikis is templates, what you're suggesting might involve bots and other complex mechanisms. I'm afraid I'm currently incapable of doing that. Even if it is my preference at least I did give pros for the reference system. Up until now, other than a small mention on the font style there has been absolutely no pros given forward for the current system despite my asking over and over (And I did ask over and over). Well, here's a compromise, how about putting this discussion on hold until all the translations are finished? It would give time to mull things over. I've seen giving a break to discussions helps clear up some things. Even I might change my mind. Or would you rather we keep on discussing? It does cut into translation/editing time doesn't it? [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] 07:30, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

The thing is, this is supposed to be a popularity contest. In essence, this change is based on what people like, whether they like having an off-page reference, or <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. I'm not really translating regularly, as exams are coming up, and it's not like I'm working set hours, so it's not wasting my translation time, as such. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

True. But every popularity contest has to have the subjects displayed and their advantages and disadvantages noted. But nobody even bothers to point out any advantages to the current system. [[User:Zero2001|Zero2001]] - [[User Talk:Zero2001]] - 14:07, 31 May 2011

Advantages: Translator can put whatever the hell she wants without inhibition XD. Doesn't mess up the aesthetics of the page, (for some.) Allows for additional information to be put where necessary. Makes it easier to keep track of. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

Nice debate. Well even if you do a poll I don't know if anyone will vote. You could just make a thread about this and stick a poll in there if you want. But, as a reader, I can clearly say that having refs on the same page is better. Honestly though, it makes nearly no difference whatsoever, majority of readers won't care too much either way. Since this is the case, whatever is more convenient for the translator should be used. I mean... this is baka-tsuki. You have minimal contact with your readers anyways, so just do what you want.--[[User:Blackfaia|Blackfaia]] 00:04, 12 June 2011 (UCT)

== quick question ==

Who's on the cover of volume 8? I don't recognize her. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 06:32, 5 June 2011 (UCT)

See here: ***SPOILER*** http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3574281#post3574281 ***SPOILER*** --[[User:Remotemine|Remotemine]]

== Problem: Incomplete Translations ==

So yea, the problem I would like to address is the one regarding '''incomplete translations'''.

The translators '''have not finished volume 8''' yet they start on 9? How will the readers get a full experience if they can't read the whole thing?

I would love to translate but unfortunately, I'm not fluent in Japanese. I'm not here to bitch, I'm just trying to resolve a problem. This post may become irrelavant as the translations progress, but as of now, I see incomplete translations.

Thanks for your attention,

-Kuro Light XIII

Same here, I would love to continue reading, but unfortunately there aren't any translations. So please, if you can translate it. I would help if i could ...

As I posted on Kuro's talk page, the reason why people translate after an unfinished volume is that we should keep the greatest constancy possible. Meaning that there's a max of 2 translators per volume, and preferably only one. [[User:Kira0802|Kira]] ([[User_talk:Kira0802|Talk]]) 16:31, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Thx for the reply. So that means that volume 8 is currently with no translator... can you give a date by which the tranlation is complete(if you can manage to get a translator for that volume). If you can I would be very grateful...

There still hasn't been any progress with the translations of vol 8 since I last checked... please someone translate it,, im begging you -KuroLightXIII

man guys i love the anime guys and was so excited becuz of the light novel but found out that it only till 8 volume are complete....im on my

knees mann to anyone who are willing to take time off from real life to translate this piece of novel... honestly im being a bitch here becuz

im irritated it like watching clannad after story without watching it ending or angel beats without the tearful ending or code geass and just

watching the 1st season... but im still thankful for translating this work till volume 7 - loyal fan

As much as I want to agree with you guys about the incomplete translations, I'm asking you to please stop this kind discussion. Asking them to quickly finish translating can be a very rude thing (it depends on how you view it though) and this is something that I've recently understood as well. The translators are doing this without any type of monetary reward and requires a lot of sacrifice on their part. As those that cannot even contribute to the novel's translation, we show our appreciation to them by saying thanks and try to give them some moral support with words but that's it. You should understand as well how hard it is to cope with real life matters especially since it's more important than translating LNs for free. The only thing we can do now is pray that someone will be willing to complete the translations and at the same time show our appreciation to the ones who finished the earlier volumes. If you guys still want the translations to be finished, you can try asking some translators that's almost finished with their project to continue with this one once they're done but don't persist if they refuse. They've done their part and that's more than enough. A more definite solution would be to learn the Japanese language ourselves and buy the LNs. This way you don't bother the translators and you're also supporting the authors who we should ultimately give thanks to for writing the LNs in the first place. - Cataccountant

Hello, I am not currently a translator for baka tsuki, but I would like to become one. I have 2 years of Japanese schooling, 5 months of living there on exchange, and a ridiculous amount of anime that I have watched. I am a native English speaker with a tendency to read every book I enjoy within a few hours, so there shouldn't be many problems with vocabulary. I would like to try translating Hidan no Aria if possible, unfortunately I have not yet found a local store to pick up the untranslated volumes. If I am able to get access to the Japanese version I would happily work on translation. Please let me know if this would be possible, and if there is another way to get the raw versions.
Thanks,
- 0Starkller0

@0Starkller0 --Before I bought my real copies, I always found my JP raw volumes over at jCafe. Just a few weeks ago they were still available there so you should still be able to find them pretty quickly. Hope that helps a bit. Good Luck! --[[User:Fallton13|Fallton13]]
Thanks, I got my copy of volume 10 already, 8 and 11 are in the mail. Ordered them from kinokuniya online store. - 0Starkiller0

Hey, i was wondering if you are really going to translate HnA and if yes are you going to finish volume 8 or jump right into one of the untranslated volumes? - Daeverius

I hope translator can quickly finish volume 8 and 9. because I can not read in Japanese, sincerly I beg for translator to finish it. Thanks.

Volume 14, HNA will probably be published this month. There's no one to translate the volumes 10,11,12,13? Please. Thank you.

== Image Editing ==
Went ahead and edited the images from volume 1 to volume 7, I'll continue with them as translators finish their job translating, so once volume 8 and 9 get properly finished i'll work on the images for these volumes. --[[User:Krytyk|Krytyk]] ([[User talk:Krytyk|talk]]) 19:37, 15 December 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the hard work. I'll wait vol 8 & 9 eagerly.

Thanks for the translation. I'll be eagerly awaiting the volumes 10, 11, 12 and 13

== 10th Volume ==

How come the second chapter is already done while chapter 1 has not seen major advance since last August? --[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 05:54, 7 February 2013 (CST)

Because the ones working are different Translators | [[User:Koakuma|Koakuma]] ([[User talk:Koakuma|talk]]) 07:02, 7 February 2013 (CST)

== AfterWord/Author's Notes ==
Hey guys just curious as to why there aren't any of the afterwords/author's notes for HnA at all. I noticed that they actually do exists, and I am wondering if its on purpose or is it just forgotten? I wonder if anyone else would be interested in doing them with me if you guys think we should add them in for completions sake. -- [[User:Royaloyalz|Royaloyalz]] ([[User talk:Royaloyalz|talk]]) 06:37, 8 February 2013 (CST)

I can't speak on behalf of previous translators to say why they haven't been done, but they definitely exist. They're really quite short, so I'll see about taking a stab at them.
--[[User:Hiyono|Hiyono]] ([[User talk:Hiyono|talk]]) 09:56, 8 February 2013 (CST)

== So. ==

What would it take for a commissioned translation effort? I'm willing to offer. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 17:24, 5 May 2013 (CDT)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria

2013-02-09T22:39:04Z

LB Kasen:

==The Synopsis==
It feels like an advertisement, like the sort that would appear on a chain bookstore's window, which I feel is improper. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 02:01, 27 August 2012 (CDT)
:Agreed. Feel free to write one. Sadly, I suck at this kind of thing, but I remember seeing a decent one in one of those fake Anime previews [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] ([[User talk:EusthEnoptEron|talk]]) 02:04, 27 August 2012 (CDT)
::On a related note: there's a bunch of stuff on the front page that's sort of accreted over time - for instance, the description of Haruaki as a baseball fan is technically correct, but is also a bit off. (He's clearly a member of the baseball club/team, etc etc.) My guess is that circa 2010/V1, it was a quick description for a seemingly second-string character...That being said, there's a slippery slope wrt character descriptions and spoilers for V1+...one that I'm a bit too burnt out to negotiate at the moment. But others should feel free to tackle such issues :D [[User:Grrarr|Grrarr]] ([[User talk:Grrarr|talk]]) 02:28, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

==Other Comments==

Comment: Just wanted to say, this novel is awesome. It keeps me wanting more. Keep up with the good work, and thanks for translating this and sharing it so that more people can read this awesome novel.

don't understand....

how much more is there in the story?
:I've done about a thirth. Or to be more specific: ''115/331 pages''. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Question: What general tensing are you trying to use? First couple of chapters seem to be mostly past tense, then they switch to present. I was trying to edit them all to be the same, but ended up not being sure. >_<

~ Macavity

To me, since it talks about time loops, it seems like the main character is experiencing it first-hand in the present(since he doesn't remember much from his "past" loops) But I'm not 100% sure if thats the narration view -SwiftStrike
:I tried to use present tense in the first few loops, but then switched to past tense. In the book everything is in present tense and written in the perspective of Kazuki. But I thought it "might" sound more natural if I used past tense for actions and present tense only for his actual toughts. In the end I have no idea which one is better. Any opinions? ;) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 05:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Bleh, it might be better to switch everything to just present tense then. I'm going to play around with changing the tensing for the first few parts of chapter 10876 to past. Take a look at it when I'm done. It might take some heavy editing, so we can revert it if it doesn't work for you, 3E. ~Macavity

Thanks for the example. I thought it was easier to read than the old all-present version. My only fear is that some direct thoughts of Kazuki might start to sound strange by putting them into past tense. e.g.
There's no way I'd know if you ask me suddenly like this.
→ There was no way I'd know if you asked me suddenly like that.
Past tense, but directly pointed at Kokone. Might as well just be because English's not my mother tongue.
The easiest would be to adopt the tenses of the book. But that would make it harder to read, I guess. And for, say, [http://hmtbs.wordpress.com/category/light-novels/ Ore no Imouto] it worked with the thoughts=present/actions=past mix.
So for now I'll vote for the past/present mix. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Gah, whoever edited that is a real pro. That's ridiculously readable. (Well, ignoring a lot of stuff on here is about on the same level). Alright, if that's what you want to go for. I'll probably revert the past tense edit and work from the present tense version. It'll be easier.

Pointing the direct thoughts in past tense is pretty difficult anyway. Gah, English. Why must you abuse your speakers so? ~Macavity

==Comments==
Thanks for translating this series and I'm looking forward for what's yet to come. I'll probably do some editing in the future, but as I'm pretty lax about it this may not come to pass (I've noticed a couple here and there throughout my marathon of what was translated... Kind of why I don't ever officially call myself an editor, as I'm lazy and lax). I would of posted this in its forum thread, but I couldn't find it, if it even exists. ~EnigmaticRepose
:Thanks for the cheers, I'm glad you like it. A real forum thread will/might come soon if everything goed right, but for now there's one in the Teaser forum. Feel free to do or not to do some editing as the whim takes you - every bit helps. ;) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 05:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

::To be precise at the moment a thread is [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3161 here] - feel free to post. Maybe the link should be re-added to the project page? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for translating. This is turning out to be an interesting series.

Its so good. I like the style too. Its nice to read something different. (I guess that sums it all up)

is this novel still on pending? it's really good too... i have read it 4 times already XD

: Holy shit, you've read it more than me. :D But glad you guys like it.<br>And yeah, still pending. I've written a message to onizuka but I guess he has not much time for B-T at the moment. 公認より早く、完成させてやろうじゃないか!　[[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 17:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! this novel really impressed me, it's unique and good!
==So Surreal==
This series that is... But still, it kicks ass, because it's the kind of surreal that I still understand. Thanks for translating it Eush!

I love volume 2 soooo much! Thx for translating this great novel!!!

I totally fell for this novel. It's a really great fiction. I can't wait to read more!

==Problem==
The link for the light novel is only visible if you goto Sword Art Online first

Huh? I can't find a problem... I can think of nothing which would even relate the two projects... what does "link is only visible if..." even mean? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 02:49, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Im using a mac, and the link to this light novel isnt on the list unless i go to Sword Art Online first. Its completely missing between Toradora and Zero no Tsukaima if I don't go to SAO first

:This is because of the MediaWiki cache. You don't get the problem if you're logged in. Try adding "&action=purge" to the URL to clear the cache. Example:<br />http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page → http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=purge <br />[[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 04:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, its working now even without that

Oh yea, I was wondering how many volume this novel have out there? Tried to searched in google but can't find much.

:There are three at the present time. And the fourth should be released soon (he mentioned spring, if I remember correctly) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 19:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

==Chronological Order?==
How would it be to read the volume 1 in chronological order? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 00:37, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

confusing, with some spoilers... probably not a good idea: it would be like going through a series of manga, and watching all the flashbacks when they occur chronologically: everything would either be a spoiler or nonsensical. I would not recommend it, but, admittedly, I have not tried. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==What about a manga???==
i hope they make a manga on it, the few images are not enough^_^
(ps anime is even better;P)

== Raw scans! ==

If anyone wants to contribute, raw scans are *Link removed*. Too bad I can't read Japanese :( [[Special:Contributions/99.22.52.253|99.22.52.253]] 00:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, but as far as I know, links to RAWs are forbidden on the wiki, just as on the forums.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 18:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
* really? the [[Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights|copyrights]] page didn't say anything about not allowing links... [[Special:Contributions/24.6.131.120|24.6.131.120]] 05:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

(Happiness/Gratitude! The current point is maria03_232.png , volume 3 pagenumber 230. The colour pictures at the start of the volumes have also been pleasant to look at.) --Multipartite/131.111.229.54, 10:28, 1 June 2010 (GMT +1)

:Well, there's nothing to help with anymore, though. :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 10:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Requesting permission for a French translation of Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria. ==

Well I've already readen the first 2 volumes of Maria and my god I was blown away.This novel is so awesome, I was so inspired that I decided to translate it in french for a bunch of my friends who can't read english (and they are a anime,games,manga fans and such.So can you guys please let me translate it?(By the way I already started today and done about 6 pages already,sorry couldn't hold myself back).Thanks for reading.
:Feel free to use my translation, a français translation would be great! If you want to put it onto Baka-Tsuki, the steps you need to take (afaik):
:# Create [[Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria (French)]], copy the translated text from [[Utsuro_no_Hako_to_Zero_no_Maria|here]] into it and add "<nowiki>{{Warning:ATP}}</nowiki>" somewhere to the text.
:# Add one chapter, or well, as much as you have.
:# Ask an administrator for permission to host it on B-T, [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=group you can find those here].
:I suggest you compare how it has been done with [[Toradora!]].
:Whew, this reminds me that I will have to learn French again in a few months... :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 22:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

And dont forget to create a thread in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternate Language section] in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/ forum] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 00:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Slovak translation ==

I´m doing slovak translation of Utsuro no Hako from english. I hope you don´t mind. I think I´ll upload it after I translated more than half on first volume. I´ve translated about 20% of all the text, I´m doing shorter chapters first so I have translated 1/2 of all chapters. I think I know how to do the registration page and I´ll contact some administrator or someone later.

== Question ==

I´d like to know what meaning has second sentense in chapter 9999th time in vol 1.
'''"How to make oneself absolutely not wanting to meet a certain person?"'''
Isn´t it supposed to be something like: "How to make oneself completly avoid meeting a certain person?"
Does it mean something like: that person does not want to meet a certain person by any means?
Is that what is Mogi asking Haruaki there?
I kinda have a little problem with that sentense.
:I think you got the sentence right. Mogi asks Haruaki how she can make herself avoid a certain person. Or how she can get the "feelings" of wanting to avoid that person, so she can subconsciously reject that person. Good luck with the translation, btw! :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 11:13, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Considering starting a portuguese version ==

I'll start translating in a few days if there isn't a problem whit it (plus where i'm going this week i have no pc).
Also if anyone needs help in french, spanish or italian version i'm willing to help out, as soon as i get back.
--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

== Hey is there a volume 5? ==

I just ended of read this magnific novel and i have only one question..... WHERE IS THE VOLUME 5!!!!

wow this novel is awesome and its in CONTINUED so there is a volume 5 no?
:Ya, pleased to read that you enjoyed it. There is no date for volume 5 yet, but hopefully it will come out later this year. There is no information about it, though. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 17:03, 22 July 2011 (UCT)

It's been a while, no its been a heck of a long time!! Any news about volume 5 yet? [[Special:Contributions/218.102.79.4|218.102.79.4]] 09:23, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Nothing has been announced yet. Eusth posted in the forum today and said that it was not among the July releasesr. So if it ever gets released, it won't be before August or September.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 11:04, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
:*Sad* (._.)--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 22:47, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Hi! I have a good new for you guys. THE VOLUME 5 WILL COME OUT ON JULY, 10TH !!!!!!!
For more info, google > "空ろの箱と零のマリア5 2012..2012"
^o^

Seriously??! If this is true I'm sooooo freaking happy!!! We're counting on you EusthEnoptEron and Kadi!! I can't wait for more Maria!! XD

Vol 5 is out... FINALLY~!! <3<3<3
: (^_^) BTW, I noticed the change in illustration. Is the illustrator different or does he just change his style?--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 21:44, 22 July 2012 (CDT)

I believe its the same illustrator. The main way to tell is the expression in the pictures (mouth & eyebrows), the eyes, and the crease under the eyebrow. EG:
v1: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/3/37/UtsuroNoHako_vol1.jpg
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/d/d4/UtsuroNoHako_003.jpg
v2: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako2_1.jpg
v3: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako3_4.jpg
v4: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako4_5.jpg
If you look closely in v4, you can tell the art changed subtly but more or less the same.
Now, v5: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/c/c6/UtsuroNoHako5_1.jpg
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/7/7b/UtsuroNoHako5_5.jpg
Expression, eyes, and crease are extremely similar. Its still Tetsuo , the drawings look more sharp now and for some odd reason Tetsuo really focused on making the charas look more mature. I was fine with Maria in v1 ^^

i waited so long for this. Thank you very much for your hard work :)

OMG the end of vol 5 is really cool, and it seems the story is almost near the end, maybe 2 or 3 more volumes. I hope you will translate them once they are all out! Thanks a LOT EusthEnoptEron for translating this great novel, I mean A LOT!!

== PDFs? ==

Is anyone currently in the progress of making PDF's for the completed volumes?
: Originally, I only wanted to upload PDFs once the volumes are fully edited, but since that's not going to happen, I guess we could add some. For now, if you're interested in PDFs, you'll find some on BakaBT, indowebster, [http://sinisterspark.weebly.com/1/category/5light%20novelc704abb736/1.html here] and [http://arczyx.blogspot.ch/2012/01/utsuro-no-hako-to-zero-no-maria-light.html here]. Pick one. :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 08:47, 6 June 2012 (CDT)
:: Slight update - PDF's of varying degrees of accuracy are already a done deal afaik, but that being said, fully edited volumes are likely going to happen. At a bare minimum, V1 will get there... [[User:Grrarr|Grrarr]] ([[User talk:Grrarr|talk]]) 02:31, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

== epubs ==
I made some epubs today, [http://www.mediafire.com/?0h12i5uim0a5a here].
I couldn't test them on my ereader since mine just got rma'd, but it should work.

== Synopsis ==
I want to change the synopsis. For now, I'm planning on using an anonymous one I've found on the Interwebs as a basis to work on. Everyone is welcome to participate / propose a synopsis. Once everyone's satisfied (and I hope that "everyone" doesn't only consists of me :P), I'll update the main page. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] ([[User talk:EusthEnoptEron|talk]]) 12:21, 25 October 2012 (CDT)
:To be honest my memory of what happened in v1 became cloudy now, but I don't think "Kazuki Hoshino has unwittingly created the Rejecting Classroom" is accurate, isn't it? Also, mentioning "Rejecting Classroom" may itself considering a spoiler?--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] ([[User talk:Hypernova|talk]]) 15:55, 27 October 2012 (CDT)
::You're right, but it's okay because he's accused of doing it for about the first half of the first volume. Of course, I wouldn't mind if someone proposed a better synopsis, though. :P I also spotted a nice one on TVTropes. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] ([[User talk:EusthEnoptEron|talk]]) 16:18, 27 October 2012 (CDT)
:::How about something like "Accused of creating (the 「Rejecting Classroom」,) an endless recurrence of time by using a wish-granting 'box', Kazuki Hoshino is confronted by Aya Otonashi..."? What is in the parenthesis could be left out.--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] ([[User talk:Hypernova|talk]]) 20:45, 27 October 2012 (CDT)

== Synopsis Drafts ==
By using a wish-granting 'box', Kazuki Hoshino has unwittingly created the Rejecting Classroom, an endless recurrence of time. His antagonist, Aya Otonashi, is determined to end the loop and obtain his box, no matter what the cost. [the number of repetitions and lengths she has to go to.]

Waiting warmly for Volume 6. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 16:39, 9 February 2013 (CST)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria

2013-02-09T22:37:19Z

LB Kasen:

File talk:UtsuroNoHako6 6.jpg

2013-01-19T05:04:37Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "...This looks like a rather liberal translation. ~~~~"

...This looks like a rather liberal translation. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 23:04, 18 January 2013 (CST)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume 5

2012-08-28T02:10:04Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "It's not a huge problem, but many chapters of this volume don't work too well in mobile browsers, because of the Very Long Nooooooos. Is there something like an invisible auto..."

It's not a huge problem, but many chapters of this volume don't work too well in mobile browsers, because of the Very Long Nooooooos. Is there something like an invisible auto-break implemented by the wiki? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 21:10, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume1 Prologue

2012-08-27T08:07:39Z

LB Kasen:

Grarr, mind if I push my opinion a bit?
I feel that in a novel, especially a surrealistic one like Hakomari, maintaining the stylistic individuality of the writing is much more important than following orthodox usage customs. "Break any rule sooner than say anything outright barbarous," after all. A translation is a new work - and I feel that EEE imparted to many parts of Hakomari a very likable style, which I feel should be preserved.

For example, the change {I think I asked him something trifling then, something like ‘Why are you giving this to me?’} -> {I think I asked him (or her) something trivial at that point, along the lines of ‘Why are you giving this to me?’}.
<small>(Actually, rereading that, it should be edited to {I think I asked him something trifling then - something along the lines of ‘Why are you giving this to me?’})</small>

It's very, very difficult to explain, but I feel there's an odd charm in the choice of words and phrasing in the original - in this case, it would be the usage of {trifling}, as well as the structure of {something --- then, something like}. Using {something trivial at that point}, while more consistent with current vernacular and rules, removes the bit of 'flavor' the original phrasing imparted to the story. A similar argument applies to many of your other edits - especially the more liberal ones. The original lack of conjunctions is another example of this charm.

I realize this is also a case of the version first read imprinting itself on my perception of Hakomari as a whole, like the King James Bible on our perception of the Bible - but I'd like to defend that first style, regardless. I do think lots of your grammar edits improved the readability though.

Your view?
[[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 03:00, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

User talk:Grrarr

2012-08-27T08:02:28Z

LB Kasen: /* Yo. */ new section

== Notes to self re: trivial edit tracking, Utsuro no Hako Illustrations & Illustration summary pages ==

Complete: Utsuro no Hako V1
:illustration summary
:individual illustrations

Utsuro no Hako V2
:Complete/trivial: illustration summary
:Todo:
*April 7th- Announcement (1.Needs to be sync'd, in part, w/ending phrase of V1. 2.Need to grab EEE/downtime re: the current desription of Maria as a "firm beauty" ....)
*April 23rd - Classroom
*May 1st - Confession

V3

V4

V5:
:illustration summary
:individual illustrations - Untranslated

==tsukumodo==
yo) about the changing of the order of editing Tsukumodo chapters, as you so kindly proposed - both you and ss were going at the last chapter of vol. 1 pretty hard. if you're not finished with it yet, can i humbly request you to do that chapter first? i thought about it and things seemed to coincide a bit: you're doing it anyway with ss and i just felt like i needed to tl the best chapter in the volume next after the first chapter (i need some motivation to keep going as tsukumodo isn't all that fun really). and by the time i finish said last chapter you will have probably edited the whole volume , so after that the order isn't a problem. sorry i didn't think of this sooner... PS. god, i love "future in the past" (tense)--[[User:Idiffer|Idiffer]] 03:45, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

hey! no worries, totally not a prob. (Just a heads up - I'll probably crap out at some point and get busy w/other stuff this week, so don't be so sure that I'll have gotten thru the volume by the time you TL it... :P) [[User:Grrarr|Grrarr]] 10:43, 29 July 2012 (CDT)

oh, hey. thanks for the update. but really, no need apologize. plus, i've been lazy myself (i have still have half of 'coincedence' to go) + i tl'd a chapter Boku wa tomodachi ga sukunai and have things to be busy with other than tsukumodo, mainly proofreading + my new job is pretty much hell in terms of work shifts. so all in all, i have no problem waiting. --[[User:Idiffer|Idiffer]] ([[User talk:Idiffer|talk]]) 22:51, 14 August 2012 (CDT)

Cool - well, not so much the work shifts being hell part...but glad I haven't been holding you up/you've been otherwise occupied. About to send you a PM [[User:Grrarr|Grrarr]] ([[User talk:Grrarr#top|talk]]) 00:02, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

'''Reminder to self: do "coincidence" then "present" ''' Also, at some pt, make sure the prologues and other word-for-word copies of "what is a relic" in the various chapters are all consistent... [[User:Grrarr|Grrarr]] ([[User talk:Grrarr#top|talk]]) 16:13, 24 August 2012 (CDT)

== Notes to self re: edit tracking, Utsuro no Hako V1 ==

Novel Illustrations
Prologue
1st time
23rd time
1,050th time
13,118th time
10,876th time
8,946th time
2,601st time
2,602nd time
4,609th time
5,232nd time
== 27,753rd time
Interlude
27,753rd time
== 27,754th time
3,087th time
== 27,754th time<br />
0th time<br />
p= 27,755th time<br />
== 27,755th time<br />
== 27,755th time<br />
== 27,755th time
0th time
== 5,000th time<br />
== 6,000th time
7,000th time
8,000th time
9,000th time
== 9,999th time<br />
== 10,000th time
27,755th time
== 27,756th time<br />
== 1st time
Epilogue
== Author’s Notes<br />
== Translator’s Notes

== Yo. ==

Wanted to direct your attention to an argument I'm putting forth here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Utsuro_no_Hako:Volume1_Prologue

Speaking of style, I see you're getting away from the "formal/academic/calcified writing style" - I think that's a really nice thing to do. It's one of my primary hobbies to look at different interesting writing styles, for example from Orwell and Russell (considerably different choice of vocabulary, tendency for longer, more complex sentences; "styled like a dusty BBC radio broadcast") to a translation of The Brothers Karamazov (short, clipped sentences delivered in a very matter-of-fact tone) to a recent nonfiction book on psychology for the masses (informal; American spoken vernacular), and so forth. Having to write for academia is pretty suffocating, so I hope you have fun with that 'getting away.'

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume1 Prologue

2012-08-27T08:00:14Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "Grarr, mind if I push my opinion a bit? I feel that in a novel, especially a surrealistic one like Hakomari, maintaining the stylistic individuality of the writing is much mor..."

Grarr, mind if I push my opinion a bit?
I feel that in a novel, especially a surrealistic one like Hakomari, maintaining the stylistic individuality of the writing is much more important than following orthodox usage customs. "Break any rule sooner than say anything outright barbarous," after all. A translation is a new work - and I feel that EEE imparted to many parts of Hakomari a very likable style, which I feel should be preserved.

For example, the change {I think I asked him something trifling then, something like ‘Why are you giving this to me?’} -> {I think I asked him (or her) something trivial at that point, along the lines of ‘Why are you giving this to me?’}.
<small>(Actually, rereading that, it should be edited to {I think I asked him something trifling then - something along the lines of ‘Why are you giving this to me?’})</small>

It's very, very difficult to explain, but I feel there's an odd charm in the choice of words and phrasing in the original - in this case, it would be the usage of {trifling}, as well as the structure of {something --- then, something like}. Using {something trivial at that point}, while more consistent with current vernacular and rules, removes the bit of 'flavor' the original phrasing imparted to the story. A similar argument applies to many of your other edits, especially the more liberal ones.

I realize this is also a case of the version first read imprinting itself on my perception of Hakomari as a whole, like the King James Bible on our perception of the Bible - but I'd like to defend that first style, regardless. I do think lots of your grammar edits improved the readability though.

Your view?
[[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 03:00, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria

2012-08-27T07:01:47Z

LB Kasen:

==The Synopsis==
It feels like an advertisement, like the sort that would appear on a chain bookstore's window, which I feel is improper. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 02:01, 27 August 2012 (CDT)

==Other Comments==

Comment: Just wanted to say, this novel is awesome. It keeps me wanting more. Keep up with the good work, and thanks for translating this and sharing it so that more people can read this awesome novel.

don't understand....

how much more is there in the story?
:I've done about a thirth. Or to be more specific: ''115/331 pages''. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Question: What general tensing are you trying to use? First couple of chapters seem to be mostly past tense, then they switch to present. I was trying to edit them all to be the same, but ended up not being sure. >_<

~ Macavity

To me, since it talks about time loops, it seems like the main character is experiencing it first-hand in the present(since he doesn't remember much from his "past" loops) But I'm not 100% sure if thats the narration view -SwiftStrike
:I tried to use present tense in the first few loops, but then switched to past tense. In the book everything is in present tense and written in the perspective of Kazuki. But I thought it "might" sound more natural if I used past tense for actions and present tense only for his actual toughts. In the end I have no idea which one is better. Any opinions? ;) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 05:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Bleh, it might be better to switch everything to just present tense then. I'm going to play around with changing the tensing for the first few parts of chapter 10876 to past. Take a look at it when I'm done. It might take some heavy editing, so we can revert it if it doesn't work for you, 3E. ~Macavity

Thanks for the example. I thought it was easier to read than the old all-present version. My only fear is that some direct thoughts of Kazuki might start to sound strange by putting them into past tense. e.g.
There's no way I'd know if you ask me suddenly like this.
→ There was no way I'd know if you asked me suddenly like that.
Past tense, but directly pointed at Kokone. Might as well just be because English's not my mother tongue.
The easiest would be to adopt the tenses of the book. But that would make it harder to read, I guess. And for, say, [http://hmtbs.wordpress.com/category/light-novels/ Ore no Imouto] it worked with the thoughts=present/actions=past mix.
So for now I'll vote for the past/present mix. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Gah, whoever edited that is a real pro. That's ridiculously readable. (Well, ignoring a lot of stuff on here is about on the same level). Alright, if that's what you want to go for. I'll probably revert the past tense edit and work from the present tense version. It'll be easier.

Pointing the direct thoughts in past tense is pretty difficult anyway. Gah, English. Why must you abuse your speakers so? ~Macavity

==Comments==
Thanks for translating this series and I'm looking forward for what's yet to come. I'll probably do some editing in the future, but as I'm pretty lax about it this may not come to pass (I've noticed a couple here and there throughout my marathon of what was translated... Kind of why I don't ever officially call myself an editor, as I'm lazy and lax). I would of posted this in its forum thread, but I couldn't find it, if it even exists. ~EnigmaticRepose
:Thanks for the cheers, I'm glad you like it. A real forum thread will/might come soon if everything goed right, but for now there's one in the Teaser forum. Feel free to do or not to do some editing as the whim takes you - every bit helps. ;) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 05:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

::To be precise at the moment a thread is [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3161 here] - feel free to post. Maybe the link should be re-added to the project page? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 06:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for translating. This is turning out to be an interesting series.

Its so good. I like the style too. Its nice to read something different. (I guess that sums it all up)

is this novel still on pending? it's really good too... i have read it 4 times already XD

: Holy shit, you've read it more than me. :D But glad you guys like it.<br>And yeah, still pending. I've written a message to onizuka but I guess he has not much time for B-T at the moment. 公認より早く、完成させてやろうじゃないか!　[[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 17:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the update! this novel really impressed me, it's unique and good!
==So Surreal==
This series that is... But still, it kicks ass, because it's the kind of surreal that I still understand. Thanks for translating it Eush!

I love volume 2 soooo much! Thx for translating this great novel!!!

I totally fell for this novel. It's a really great fiction. I can't wait to read more!

==Problem==
The link for the light novel is only visible if you goto Sword Art Online first

Huh? I can't find a problem... I can think of nothing which would even relate the two projects... what does "link is only visible if..." even mean? --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 02:49, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Im using a mac, and the link to this light novel isnt on the list unless i go to Sword Art Online first. Its completely missing between Toradora and Zero no Tsukaima if I don't go to SAO first

:This is because of the MediaWiki cache. You don't get the problem if you're logged in. Try adding "&action=purge" to the URL to clear the cache. Example:<br />http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page → http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=purge <br />[[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 04:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, its working now even without that

Oh yea, I was wondering how many volume this novel have out there? Tried to searched in google but can't find much.

:There are three at the present time. And the fourth should be released soon (he mentioned spring, if I remember correctly) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 19:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

==Chronological Order?==
How would it be to read the volume 1 in chronological order? --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 00:37, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

confusing, with some spoilers... probably not a good idea: it would be like going through a series of manga, and watching all the flashbacks when they occur chronologically: everything would either be a spoiler or nonsensical. I would not recommend it, but, admittedly, I have not tried. --[[User:Saganatsu|Saganatsu]] 00:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

==What about a manga???==
i hope they make a manga on it, the few images are not enough^_^
(ps anime is even better;P)

== Raw scans! ==

If anyone wants to contribute, raw scans are *Link removed*. Too bad I can't read Japanese :( [[Special:Contributions/99.22.52.253|99.22.52.253]] 00:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

:Sorry, but as far as I know, links to RAWs are forbidden on the wiki, just as on the forums.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 18:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
* really? the [[Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights|copyrights]] page didn't say anything about not allowing links... [[Special:Contributions/24.6.131.120|24.6.131.120]] 05:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

(Happiness/Gratitude! The current point is maria03_232.png , volume 3 pagenumber 230. The colour pictures at the start of the volumes have also been pleasant to look at.) --Multipartite/131.111.229.54, 10:28, 1 June 2010 (GMT +1)

:Well, there's nothing to help with anymore, though. :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 10:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

== Requesting permission for a French translation of Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria. ==

Well I've already readen the first 2 volumes of Maria and my god I was blown away.This novel is so awesome, I was so inspired that I decided to translate it in french for a bunch of my friends who can't read english (and they are a anime,games,manga fans and such.So can you guys please let me translate it?(By the way I already started today and done about 6 pages already,sorry couldn't hold myself back).Thanks for reading.
:Feel free to use my translation, a français translation would be great! If you want to put it onto Baka-Tsuki, the steps you need to take (afaik):
:# Create [[Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria (French)]], copy the translated text from [[Utsuro_no_Hako_to_Zero_no_Maria|here]] into it and add "<nowiki>{{Warning:ATP}}</nowiki>" somewhere to the text.
:# Add one chapter, or well, as much as you have.
:# Ask an administrator for permission to host it on B-T, [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=group you can find those here].
:I suggest you compare how it has been done with [[Toradora!]].
:Whew, this reminds me that I will have to learn French again in a few months... :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 22:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

And dont forget to create a thread in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=29 Alternate Language section] in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/ forum] --[[User:Darklor|Darklor]] 00:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

== Slovak translation ==

I´m doing slovak translation of Utsuro no Hako from english. I hope you don´t mind. I think I´ll upload it after I translated more than half on first volume. I´ve translated about 20% of all the text, I´m doing shorter chapters first so I have translated 1/2 of all chapters. I think I know how to do the registration page and I´ll contact some administrator or someone later.

== Question ==

I´d like to know what meaning has second sentense in chapter 9999th time in vol 1.
'''"How to make oneself absolutely not wanting to meet a certain person?"'''
Isn´t it supposed to be something like: "How to make oneself completly avoid meeting a certain person?"
Does it mean something like: that person does not want to meet a certain person by any means?
Is that what is Mogi asking Haruaki there?
I kinda have a little problem with that sentense.
:I think you got the sentence right. Mogi asks Haruaki how she can make herself avoid a certain person. Or how she can get the "feelings" of wanting to avoid that person, so she can subconsciously reject that person. Good luck with the translation, btw! :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 11:13, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

== Volume 4 ==

Is there an ETA for when translation on Volume 4 will be started now that Volume 3 is complete? --[[Special:Contributions/216.80.16.49|216.80.16.49]] 22:24, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

When it's done. :-) And since you asked nicely: Eusth still needs to read the book in the first place, so it should take some time until you get something translated.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 00:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

== Considering starting a portuguese version ==

I'll start translating in a few days if there isn't a problem whit it (plus where i'm going this week i have no pc).
Also if anyone needs help in french, spanish or italian version i'm willing to help out, as soon as i get back.
--[[User:AADragon|AADragon]] 16:36, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

== Hey is there a volume 5? ==

I just ended of read this magnific novel and i have only one question..... WHERE IS THE VOLUME 5!!!!

wow this novel is awesome and its in CONTINUED so there is a volume 5 no?
:Ya, pleased to read that you enjoyed it. There is no date for volume 5 yet, but hopefully it will come out later this year. There is no information about it, though. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 17:03, 22 July 2011 (UCT)

It's been a while, no its been a heck of a long time!! Any news about volume 5 yet? [[Special:Contributions/218.102.79.4|218.102.79.4]] 09:23, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Nothing has been announced yet. Eusth posted in the forum today and said that it was not among the July releasesr. So if it ever gets released, it won't be before August or September.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 11:04, 2 April 2012 (CDT)
:*Sad* (._.)--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 22:47, 2 April 2012 (CDT)

Hi! I have a good new for you guys. THE VOLUME 5 WILL COME OUT ON JULY, 10TH !!!!!!!
For more info, google > "空ろの箱と零のマリア5 2012..2012"
^o^

Seriously??! If this is true I'm sooooo freaking happy!!! We're counting on you EusthEnoptEron and Kadi!! I can't wait for more Maria!! XD

Vol 5 is out... FINALLY~!! <3<3<3
: (^_^) BTW, I noticed the change in illustration. Is the illustrator different or does he just change his style?--[[User:Hypernova|Hypernova]] 21:44, 22 July 2012 (CDT)

I believe its the same illustrator. The main way to tell is the expression in the pictures (mouth & eyebrows), the eyes, and the crease under the eyebrow. EG:
v1: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/3/37/UtsuroNoHako_vol1.jpg
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/d/d4/UtsuroNoHako_003.jpg
v2: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako2_1.jpg
v3: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako3_4.jpg
v4: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=File:UtsuroNoHako4_5.jpg
If you look closely in v4, you can tell the art changed subtly but more or less the same.
Now, v5: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/c/c6/UtsuroNoHako5_1.jpg
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/images/7/7b/UtsuroNoHako5_5.jpg
Expression, eyes, and crease are extremely similar. Its still Tetsuo , the drawings look more sharp now and for some odd reason Tetsuo really focused on making the charas look more mature. I was fine with Maria in v1 ^^

i waited so long for this. Thank you very much for your hard work :)

== PDFs? ==

Is anyone currently in the progress of making PDF's for the completed volumes?
: Originally, I only wanted to upload PDFs once the volumes are fully edited, but since that's not going to happen, I guess we could add some. For now, if you're interested in PDFs, you'll find some on BakaBT, indowebster, [http://sinisterspark.weebly.com/1/category/5light%20novelc704abb736/1.html here] and [http://arczyx.blogspot.ch/2012/01/utsuro-no-hako-to-zero-no-maria-light.html here]. Pick one. :D [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 08:47, 6 June 2012 (CDT)

== ebups ==
I made some ebups today, [http://www.mediafire.com/?0h12i5uim0a5a here].
I couldn't test them on my ereader since mine just got rma'd, but it should work.

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume5 Before the Show Begins

2012-08-16T02:21:14Z

LB Kasen:

I see that Ruu-chan in previous volumes has been changed to Luu-chan; I disagree with this. Unless the author made it clear that that's the preferred romanization, I think it's better to stick with the one that was first used, for the same reason that we still use the King James Bible. Also, her name is still given as "Ruka Hoshino." [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] 16:13, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
: I see where you are coming from, but personally, I think "Luka" has a better ring to it. Then again, that's just my personal preference. I might start a poll for this if required. (Although I don't think there's a need to stick to the previous translations -- I consider them a work-in-progress. Besides, when I first came across Luka/Ruka, I just wanted to get the thing done as fast as possible and didn't give her naming much thought.) - [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 16:24, 7 August 2012 (CDT)
:: Hah, I have the exact opposite opinion. Well, I guess it's your translation, though a poll would be nice. [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] ([[User talk:LB Kasen|talk]]) 21:21, 15 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume5 Before the Show Begins

2012-08-07T21:14:23Z

LB Kasen:

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume5 Before the Show Begins

2012-08-07T21:13:19Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "I see that Ruu-chan in previous volumes has been changed to Luu-chan; I disagree with this. Unless the author made it clear that that's the preferred romanization, I think it's b..."

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume5 Prologue

2012-08-07T21:09:50Z

LB Kasen:

Let me ask something that its confusing me... the name of the being that give the boxes its zero (0) or O as letter? I'm pretty sure that it name is zero because it identify itself as a coordinate, therefore 0,0 or 0. If I'm wrong, be kind and point me in the right direction.

Also, why everything is bold?

I still think it's O (as letter) like OH, it sound like something omnipotent rather than zero, personaly i think that way. But yeah, it's just my assumtion, As for why it's in bold, probably it's the same with the original. As far as i remember, most prolog, or maybe dream where they meet O, written in bold. [[User:Tony Yon|Tony Yon]] 23:09, 30 July 2012 (CDT)

:It's the letter. You'll see why. Also yes, bold is for prologues. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:17, 31 July 2012 (CDT)

:: Then, do the previous references to '0' actually refer to 'O'? [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] 16:09, 7 August 2012 (CDT)

Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume5 Illustrations

2012-07-17T14:34:06Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "Wow, can't believe that these are drawn by the same person as the previous volumes. I think I like this style better, though. Excited for the translation! ~~~~"

Wow, can't believe that these are drawn by the same person as the previous volumes. I think I like this style better, though. Excited for the translation! [[User:LB Kasen|LB_Kasen]] 09:34, 17 July 2012 (CDT)

Tsukumodo:Volume 1 Memories and Notes

2012-07-14T06:17:06Z

LB Kasen: A misspelling.

The word memory means "past experience retained in the mind." The scientific definition reads "information from outside the human body stored within the human body by copying the data into the synapses of the biological neural network".

But knowing that doesn't make my memory any better.

If I consider the outcome of poor memorization, well, the result of the exams becomes a very unpleasant affair.

Unlike the nationwide mock exams that test your knowledge, the midterms and finals test whether you paid attention during class.

Good grades don't really mean much to me. I'm okay as long as I can avoid supplementary exams. Memorizing the school books is enough to get me there.

Except that ''that's'' exactly what's so terrible and difficult to accomplish.

Are there no easier methods to remember things?

Come to think of it, I heard that you can remember anything if you write it on a note and eat it. I once gave it a shot for an exam.

...I suffered from an upset stomach for my trouble.

Why do I address this subject?

Well, because a teacher, who had already finished marking our exams, made a certain remark as I was leaving.

"The supplementary exam will cover the same subjects. Prepare yourself accordingly."

Right, then. Today's dinner is a bundle of memos.

But just where do I get them...?

...do photocopies also count?

<div style="text-align: center">◆</div>

<div style="font-family: Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Times, serif">
My mother passed at the hospital after falling down the stairs at home.

Death by accident. Her death was set aside with those three words.

But I had seen the truth.

I saw. Through a gap in the door of the room I'd been locked into, I saw. With swollen cheeks and bereft of clothes, I saw.

I saw him push her down.

I desperately tried to get a hearing, but no one believed me.

(The truth is going to fade away and be forgotten.

I will forget before long, too.

I have a bad memory, so I will forget.

I don't want to.

I mustn't.)

So I wrote it down.

In a notebook my mother had once given to me along with the advice that I should record everything that I absolutely didn't want to forget inside it.

It was not just a memento of her.

It was a special notebook—different from those I usually used—whose contents I never forget.

Therefore, I recorded it.

In order not to forget, I recorded it.

I recorded the truth behind my mother's death.

(...Someone's here. Sheesh. It might be him. He'll destroy this if he finds it. I'll forget if he does.

I don't want to.

I mustn't.)

The door opened slowly.

It was his hands.

He had come, after all.

I closed the notebook and looked for a place to hide it. However, I couldn't decide on a place because none seemed certain.

The door was still being opened.

With my gaze I compared the notebook that contained the truth of her death and the slowly opening door.

There was no time.

I tore off the page I had just written, pushed it into my mouth and gulped it down.

I concealed the truth of her death in my stomach.

(Now I won't forget.

I won't forget for the rest of my life......)

.........

A while after waking up, I was so confused that I didn't know where I was.

I felt as though my consciousness had been gotten caught in between dream and reality.

After gazing at the patterns in the wooden ceiling for a few moments, I got a clear mind.

It took me a few more minutes to recognize that I lived here.

Fragments of my memories from before waking up were still in my head.

I'd had a dream.

But I had forgotten what it was about in these few minutes.

Leaving me with an irksome feeling, the memory of the dream had disappeared.

What kind of dream was it?

This memory wasn't going to return,

Unless I made a note, I couldn't recall memories that had disappeared.

(Again. As always.)

I couldn't recall things I wanted to recall.

Even though I couldn't forget things I wanted to forget.

I had trouble coping with the frustration of my helplessness.

I buried my face in the pillow and covered myself under the blanket, curling up in the darkness.

The moment my vision went black, a miracle occurred along with a sensation of sparks flying.

—I remembered. I remembered my dream.

It was a dream of my past.

At the same time, it also answered my question.

I finally realized why I couldn't forget it.
</div>

<div style="text-align: center">◆</div>

Because of exams, there were no afternoon classes.

I was, despite everything, a mere student and, naturally, went to school. Since I went to school, I naturally also took classes. Since I took classes, I naturally also had to take exams when the time arrived. And, since I had to take exams, I naturally also had to take supplementary exams. Right. "Naturally." I disregard any opinions that claim otherwise. 

Anyway, I went to the shop a little early even though my shift was scheduled for evening like always. I planned on studying for the supplementary exam the next day. Am I not dilligent?

To my surprise, however, there was a customer.

It was extremely rare for someone else to be present other than the owner, Towako-san, or my workmate, Saki. One could take the shop's lack of customers for granted. One might ask, "What the hell?," but I've had enough of that question.

From her appearance, the unexpected customer was in her early twenties. However, her presence made her seem a little older. She seemed fragile somehow, or insecure. The sad expression on her face may have augmented that impression.

Listening to her at a table that was for sale—a fake of a table with the ability of keeping everything on it even when flipping the table over like the pops of the showa era loved to do—was Towako-san.

(Since when did we offer counseling?)

That moment, Saki came out of the living room with a tray of black tea and our eyes met.

"Quite rare that we have a customer, huh?"

"It's an acquaintance of an acquaintance of Towako-san."

I thought about asking her for some black tea as well, but without leaving me any opportunity to enjoy some tea, Towako-san beckoned me over, "You came at just the right time. Tokiya, take a seat!"

I didn't know what "right time" it was, but I obediently sat down next to her. The woman on the other side greeted me with a nod, but looked a little perplexed.

"This is my part-timer. And this is Etsuko Uwajima," Towako-san introduced us to each other. "She's come her because of a problem she has. Join me in listening to her."

She loved to bargain over a Relic she was eyeing, but apparently she was bored of listening to someone's problems and planned on pushing the job onto me.
[[Image:Tsukumodo_V1_P170.jpg|400px|right]]

While I didn't have enough experience to counsel an adult woman, I wasn't so immature as to decline.

"All right, I am sorry, but may I ask you to start all over again?"

Etsuko-san nodded without seeming offended, and started calmly.

"To tell the truth, there is something I just can't seem to forget."

"Aha..."

"I have a bad memory and often forget things. This is due to the brain damage I received in a traffic accident when I was young."

Unsure what to say, I nodded vaguely. She continued without minding.

"I have absolutely no memory of anything before the accident. The memories right after the accident, too, have become very vague. I remember almost nothing from that period. Apparently, the portion of the brain that manages my memories was damaged in the accident. Moreover, I don't only forget about my past, but I am also very forgetful about everything," she said and gave a few examples to elaborate. "I immediately forget things like faces or the locations of shops I frequent. Sometimes, I forget to take my money at the bank or to wrap my purchases even though I take the change. Also, one time I was searching for something but forgot what I was looking for in the process. It's been like this since I was a child, and because of that I was often scolded. In elementary school, for example, I set the record of forgetting something one week in a row. ...Or was it two weeks? No, three weeks?"

She talked rather leisurely, or "other-wordly" perhaps. As a side note, she took a whole five minutes for the explanation so far. That should give an idea of just how sluggishly—excuse me, I mean how leisurely her way of speaking was.

I had taken a side-glance at Towako-san, but she pretty much allowed the explanation go in one ear and out the other. For her, that pace and nature had to be hard to endure.

Suddenly, the woman took a laptop out of her bag and started to look something up.

What was so important to pause and look it up?

"...Ah, it was in high school. I remember now."

She had checked ''that'' up as it seemed. Had she stored her personal history on that laptop or something?

To be honest, I didn't give a shit. To begin with, didn't she kinda recall the wrong part there?

"Ah, but it's not like I forget each and every thing. I can memorize things like the multiplication tables or how to buy tickets."

Amnesia only involves forgetting part of one's experiences, like one's memories, but does not include bare knowledge. Besides, memorization itself doesn't decrease, so new memories are retained just fine.

Apparently, it's like the way to the old memories is being cut off.

In her case, it might have been something similar.

"Anyhow, once my mother, concerned about me, told me that I could memorize things if I wrote them on a notepad and ate it. When I tried it out, I really became able to memorize all kinds of things. Since then I have been eating notes to fight against my forgetfulness. I can keep things in mind quite a long time thanks to that. Quite the progress, isn't it?"

Like I care.

"So?"

"Yes?"

"..."

"..."

"...Um, is something wrong?" I asked.

Etsuko-san was holding her cheek and cocking her head absent-mindedly.

"Hello?" I asked again, upon which she peeked into my face.

"Excuse me, but what have I been talking about?"

Can I go home already?

"...and that's where you stopped."

I went to the trouble of repeating what she had said.

"Ah, I see," she said as she clapped her hands together with a beaming smile.

"Um, so what concern brings you here today?"

"Yes, listen please. As I said, I am still memorizing things by eating memos, and those memories fade away after a while, but there is one memory I just can't seem to forget. I really want to, but I can't..."

"Aha..."

"This is the notebook I mentioned."

With these words, Etsuko-san pointed at a notebook on the table.

It was soft to the touch and of high quality, and had a binding made of Japanese paper. Just, apart from that it was a boringly normal A4 notebook that contained unlined blank pages. If I had to tell if it looked tasty or not, well, no, it didn't. Although that was no problem.

Unsure how to react, I looked to the side. Towako-san gave me a nod. That's when I realized that this notebook was a Relic.

"I once had an acquaintance of mine show it to me. Probably there's no doubt."

"What kind of power does it have?"

"You don't forget anything you note down in it. Whatever is written in there remains in your memory—no matter how much time passes, word for word."

(So in short, I guess she's written something in it and can't forget it anymore.)

"As soon as you've written something, is it really impossible to forget it?"

"No, you just have to erase it to revoke its effect. You can use an eraser or even just strike it out."

"Hey, then it's quite the simple task."

If she was unable to forget that memory, we just had to erase the corresponding text.

"Just, you know...," she sighed and showed me the opened notebook.

I saw the traces of torn-off pages.

"She's eaten the note."

"Exactly," the woman nodded in agreement.

A notebook that lets you remember everything you write in it.

A notebook that lets you forget something again if you erase it.

Then what happens if one were to eat a page?

"Dunno, no one has ever tried," Towako-san explained curtly. "But sweet Jesus, this is the first time I heard of someone ''eating'' a Relic! You never know what happens in life, though, and that's what makes it fun."

"Eating a memo isn't new, though."

That eating a memo will enable you to remember anything you've written on it is just a superstition some fool came up with when he was driven into a corner by his exams. But there are people who have to rely on such a superstition (can't talk about others).

She happened to be one of these people as well.

And in her case, she happened to have eaten a memo from a Relic.

"Normally, it's a really simple item... you remember what you write, and if you don't need it anymore, you just erase it," Towako-san said.

"If erasing does the trick, perhaps she'll forget when the note is digested?" I suggested.

"Unless she's eaten it today, it should be long digested by now."

"Then maybe in her shi—UGH!"

"We're eating."

Saki hit me with a tray. With good reason.

We were having a slightly late lunch. Saki's homemade cod roe spaghetti.

Only I, Saki and Towako-san were sitting around the lunch table. We had noted down Etsuko-san's contact information and sent her on her way.

The notebook itself was still here, as we were going to investigate it.

Etsuko Uwajima-san. 21 years old.

She had received the notebook from her mother when she was young and was told to write everything in it she didn't want to forget. We didn't know how her mother had obtained the notebook, nor did we know if she had known about Relics, but, at the very least, she seemed to have been aware of its power.

She had passed away ten years ago. Apparently, she had slipped on the stairs and fallen badly, resulting in her death. Her parents were divorced, so the father had not been there. I couldn't ask for details about her family environment, but I guessed it was a rather complicated one. At the moment she lived alone. Her address was about three stations from here. That was about all we knew about her.

"She remembers stuff like this, huh."

Despite her lackluster memory, she was able to tell us these things rather easily. Well, for part of it she had used her computer, though.

"Keep in mind that there are two factors you must distinguish. Otherwise you'll get confused," Towako-san said.

"I am already. So, what factors do you mean?"

"First, she lost her memory due to an accident, which has also made her memories thereafter ambiguous and uncertain."

"The other one?" I asked.

"She's simply forgetful from nature."

"Yeah, she was quite the airhead..."

I looked at Saki. Wasn't she also an airhead in a sense?

"What?" She looked back at me expressionlessly upon noticing my gaze.

"No, nothing."

I turned back to Towako-san.

"I'm no expert in this field either, so I'm basing this on common knowledge and my own guesswork," she started, "A human brain has a short-term memory and a long-term memory. Furthermore, the latter consists of the episodic memory, used for recollections, and the semantic memory, used for factual knowledge. None of this is new to you, right?"

"Right."

(Never heard of it.)

"The accident probably damaged her long-time memory. I guess it's true that she can remember almost nothing from her past, but in her computer she has a decent amount of data that fills in the gaps. That's why she remembers her mother for example."

(So the hard disk of her computer is supplementing her brain?)

"And as for why she forgets to take her money at the bank and had forgotten things during elementary school, well, she's a scatterbrain. It's not just her—these things can happen to everyone. Everyone forgets his or her short-term memory within a few minutes, after all. It's just that normally, you repeat those things in mind or look at a memo, so you can store it in your long-term memory. A scatterbrain tends to neglect doing so, or just gets distracted with something else."

(Does that mean that I can't remember anything from classes because it never reaches the long-term memory? I don't study at home after all.)

"In her explanation, she mixed the damage of her memory and her forgetfulness, which made her story incoherent. Looks like she didn't notice it herself, though. At any rate," she sighed, "The notebook Relic makes her remember things without paying heed to her mind structure."

"So, what do we do?"

"Well, I think I'll solve her problem. It's rude to leave her to her own devices after accepting her request for advise. Besides, there's a reward. A reward!"

(The ratio is 1:3, huh... That's how bad our sales are.)

"But is there really a need to do anything? After all, she has written it into her notebook because she ''didn't want'' to forget."

"Presently, she wants to forget. Although I don't know ''what''."

Right. In the end, we couldn't find out ''what'' she wanted to forget.

She asked us not to press her on it because it were private. We accepted for now, since we deemed it possible to find "a way to forget" even without knowing "what to forget".

Nonetheless, I was somewhat interested in whatever it was that could be troublesome to remember.

"That said, this hasn't happened before, so there's nothing we could research. Let's wait and see for a while."

"I agree... By the way, she was introduced to you by an acquaintance, right?"

"Mm? Yeah."

"What kind of person is it?"

"What do you mean by 'what kind'?"

"Nah, I just wondered if it's someone like you."

"What's that supposed to mean?"

(Well, someone who isn't only a sucker for Relics, but oddities of all kinds, and who loves to try them out on others. In other words, an oddball that can't adapt to society...?)

"No, don't tell me. If you do, one of my important part-timers might come to a bad end."

She'd rather reflect on her actions than restrain herself and not ask. That said, I was not so stupid as to voluntarily go in harm's way.

"So what kind of person is it?"

"Oh, just an old friend. A nuisance that gives Relics to people on a whim," Towako-san muttered with an absent gaze.

As the matter had been settled for the time being, I decided to study.

I had a supplementary exam the following day; there was enough pressure to get me into the mood.

(If I'd had even just a tenth of my current willingness at school, then I wouldn't have to suffer now...)

Well, I knew only too well that this was impossible, though.

"Didn't your exams end today?" Saki asked with an observant look.

"H-Homework."

"You got yourself a supplementary exam, didn't ya?" Towako-san hit the bull's eye.

Well, it was a bad excuse anyway, since I never did homework.

"You're quite the maverick for wanting to take a supplementary exam," Saki remarked in a flat voice.

I would have laughed back at her if that had been sarcasm. But in her case, she apparently didn't know what a supplementary exam was. There we have another oddball who can't adapt to society.

"Even though I helped you so much yesterday...," Towako-san sighed.

(You call ''that'' help?

I admit: doing it like a quiz and asking me questions is a perfectly valid way to study, but I have a strong feeling that it was  more just me helping her kill time.)

"Alrighty, repetition time. Explain the Doppler effect!"

"Uuhm, aah, let me think... that's that swaying of the pitch when an ambulance passed by or when you come by a railroad crossing."

"Not examples, tell me the definition."

"Umm, something about... the source of waves..."

"The formulae?"

"Weell, there were a few..."

That was a problem I hadn't been able to answer after three tries the other day. Of course this had also been in the exam, but it was questionable if I had answered correctly. Since I hadn't been able to answer it in the shop, I had given up on it when I came across it in the exam.

Towako-san let out a deep sigh.

"If your grades drop too much, I won't be able to let you work here."

"They're not high enough to drop."

"Don't act big, you fool," she said and tore off a page from the notebook Relic for some reason. "Here. It belongs to someone else, so I can't give you the whole thing, but a page should be okay."

She tossed me the torn-off page.

"M-May I really?"

"It'd rub me the wrong way if your grades dropped because of my shop. Note only the things down you can't remember whatever you try."

Suddenly, for the first time, she looked like an angel to me.

Studying had never been so effective in my life.

After all, everything went straight into my head as soon as I had written it down. For the first time in my life, I had fun studying. I was now able to accept the statement that studying was fun if you caught on.

I noted down everything the exam covered, writing as tiny as I could. I couldn't get everything on the page, front and back, but it was enough to avoid falling flat.

To my surprise, Towako-san prepared Tonkatsu<ref>A fried pork cutlet. It is often prepared before important exams and the likes—because "katsu" also means "to win"</ref> for dinner to raise my spirits and make me "win" against the exam. She was just like a mother to her son who had to take an entrance examination.

It was always Saki who prepared the meals, so I was surprised Towako-san could actually cook. She couldn't wash and clean, but cooking was something different according to her.

"Yum, really tasty!"

"Hehe, looking in a different light at me now?" Towako-san boasted with a smirk. "Okay, we're doing some repetition while eating! Question: What is the Doppler effect?"

"A phenomenon that occurs due to the relative motion of a wave and its source, or a wave and its observer. The formula to calculate the frequency if the source approaches the observer is..."

I smirked like Towako-san, "Hehe," and answered with ease like reciting the one times table. The answer came out so fluently, I could hardly believe this was my mouth.

I was able to answer almost all questions Towako-san asked me—except for the ones that weren't written in the Relic.

(I've got it! My preparations are perfect.)

It was also the first time that I couldn't wait for my exams.

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01:00pm: I went to the Tsukumodo Antique Shop (FAKE) with my notebook—the memento of my mother.

I talked with Towako Setsutsu, the owner, and her employees, Saki Maino and Tokiya Kurusu.

What I talked about: myself. My name, my address, my phone number and my age. My accident. My defective memory. The notebook.

What I learned about: the notebook. Confirmed that it lets me remember everything I write in it, as my mother said, and it's known as a "Relic". In order to forget, I only have to erase or cross out the corresponding section. But it's unknown what happens to sections I have eaten.

They are looking for a way to let me forget the memory in question.

I have left the notebook in their care. (←''important!'')

On the way home I made my purchases.

What I bought: chicken breast meat, potatoes and onions for dinner. Furthermore: tissues and a packet of toothbrushes.

For dinner I prepared chicken sauteed with a potato salad, an onion soup and French bread.

...Having written my diary to that point, I took a breath.

I called it diary, but as a matter of fact, you could say I traced my memories. After writing all that had happened that day before the memories faded, I copied the text to my computer.

I did so to help me remember these things when I forgot about them in the future.

As for the text I'd written on a memo, I was going to eat it to make my memories hold longer. I usually ate such memos distributed on my lunch, my dinner and before going to bed. Eating memos to remember things is said to be a superstition, but to me it had already become a habit, because I had been doing it since I was young on the order of my mother.

The notebooks I was using were common ones you can buy in every store and not the Relic she had bequeathed to me. Because it was all stored in my computer as well, I used such notebooks unless it was something I wanted to remember no matter what.

I fetched some water and tore the page off the notebook. I then crumpled it up, making it a little easier to eat. I used to throw up or upset my stomach in the past, but by now I had become used to it.

I soaked the page in water and put it into my mouth. It wasn't a pleasant taste at all, but still I kept chewing to make it squashier.

Previously I had mixed it into my meals, but I couldn't do so anymore as of late.

The chime rang.

I stopped chewing and gulped the page down.

I washed it down with the remaining water and headed to the entrance.

It was Hideki-san who had come home from work.

"Hey."

"Welcome back."

Hideki-san entered and I welcomed him with a smile.

He was my fiancé I was going to marry soon. We had known each other since childhood, and after going separate ways for a while, we met again and started dating each other.

"Aah, I'm starving! Is dinner ready?"

"Yes, it's prepared. I just have to warm it up."

He lived in the house next to mine, and always came for dinner after work. Therefore, I couldn't mix the notes into my meals anymore, but I didn't mind it.

"What's for today?"

"Chicken sauteed with a potato salad, an onion soup and French bread."

(Thank goodness, I remembered it.)

"Could I have some rice instead of bread?"

"There are leftovers from yesterday, I'll warm them up for you."

(I have to add this and eat it before going to sleep.)

With these thoughts in mind, I took out a pan to fry the chicken breast.

After dinner, we made ourselves comfortable and watched TV.

When I made us some tea and came back from the kitchen, Hideki-san raised a subject, "On the way here I heard our neighbors talking about a suspicious person lingering in this area."

"Really?"

"Yeah. Make sure you lock the door when you leave, okay?"

Indeed. This was a serious matter for me, as I often forgot to lock up.

"What does he look like?" I asked, since knowing his features was going to help me identify him.

"Umm..."

"Wait a second."

I prepared a pen and a notebook, so I wouldn't forget.

As Hideki-san knew about my accident and the after effects on my memory, he patiently waited for me.

"...They said it's a man about fifty or sixty. He's been walking around in these quarters wearing a jumper and was covering his face with a cap."

"Fifty or sixty...?"

A fearful notion crossed my mind.

I shook that thought off right away. He wasn't supposed to know where I was. It had to be someone else. I told myself to stop having such useless premonitions.

"Does it ring a bell with you? Did you see him or no?" 

"Ah, no. I just thought that quite a lot fall under these conditions."

"Well, indeed." He didn't consider suspicious characters or criminals a direct threat. While he took note of the case, apparently he wasn't bothered that much and changed the subject. "Anyways, there's something I wanted to ask you about our wedding ceremony!"

"Ah, yes?"

"Do you even remember the date?"

"O-Of course!"

There was a date that came to mind, but I was too unsure to put it into words. I had no confidence. If I was wrong, he would certainly be offended. My defective memory aside, it would be outrageous to forget such an important thing.

(I know... I really do... but...)

"Just joking! I mean, you wouldn't forget ''that'', now would you?" he laughed without showing any doubt.

I felt a pang of conscience.

"Anyway, a friend of mine is planning on making a slideshow for the wedding reception. You know, that thing where you show old photos. For that I'd like to have a few of you, too. Where do you keep them?"

"They are in a cardboard in the room over there... I think. I'll take a look."

"Ah, there's no hurry. Let's pick some together another time."

"I agree."

"Then about your guests..."

My heart skipped a beat.

"Are you sure you only want to invite your grandparents from your relatives?"

"Yes. I don't really maintain contact with my relatives, you know. I'm sorry. I know, you have invited a lot..."

"I don't mind, but are you sure you don't want to get in touch with your father?"

"...yes. I'm sorry."

"No, don't worry. Sorry for pestering you about it. All right! We have a lot to do!" Hideki-san laughed.

I was seized by unrest, afraid that I might ruin his smile.

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The next day.

There were two other students in the classroom, desperately cramming with their books and notes before the supplementary exam started.

(Give it your best shot, my friends. Struggle to your heart's content! As you have no choice! Unlike me.)

I watched them from behind—just like a certain colonel who once said "Aha, some human garbage!" while looking down on the mob.

"Is everyone here?" asked the teacher as he entered through the door at the rear. "Quite confident today, aren't you?" he said upon noticing that I wasn't struggling to do my last preparations. "You look like you have completed your preparations."

"Something like that, yes."

"Now if only you'd make that be the case at the normal exams as well."

"Let's not go into ''that''!"

"Hahaha, very well, then show me what you can," the teacher said, apparently reassured by my self-confidence.

He distributed the exercise sheets to the three of us. I was devoid of fear of what awaited me on the other side of the turned sheets.

(He, he, he! No problem, my dear teacher. Lean back and let me show you my skill!)

"You have sixty minutes. You can leave when you're done. The test covers the same subjects as the previous one. I even made the problems a little easier. Try to ease your tension a little and you'll be able to use your full power."

(You made them easier? Oh, but my dear teacher, there was no need to do that.

Well? Since I'm not alone, I guess you had no other choice.

Allow me to thank you on their behalf.

I shall respond in kind to the goodwill you've shown your students with a good grade.)

"Okay, start!"

As soon as I heard the start call, swiftly flipped around the paper.

Lots of questions leaped to my eye.

Making up my mind, I tightened my grip on the pen and—

".........eh?"

—grew stiff.

"How was the exam?" Towako-san asked right away when I came rushing in.

I ignored her and started searching my study materials I had used the day before.

"Welcome back. How was the..." Saki was eager to know as well.

"It's not there! Nowhere! Hey, where is the torn-off note that I put here?!"

"Note?"

"Yes! Look, there was a paper with the exam questions on it, right?"

"Didn't you bring it to school?"

I hadn't, since there had been no need to.

"It's not there?" she asked.

"I'm asking because it's not!"

I started rummaging through the trash bin. However, I didn't find the note on which I had written the scope of the exam in the minutest details.

"Looks like it ended up as expected, heh," Towako-san chuckled, seeing my fruitless search attempt.

With a queasy feeling, I pressed on her. "What's that supposed to mean? As expected?"

"By 'as expected' I mean that the result I expected became reality!"

"That's not what I want to hear... Towako-san, you know where the note is, don't you?"

Towako-san pointed at me with a broad smile.

"If I had it, I wouldn't be searching, now would I? I didn't take it with me!"

"I know that you didn't. To be exact, you couldn't. Ah no, should I say that you did, in this case?"

"Tell me where it is, already!"

"As I said, right there!"

She pointed at me once more. Specifically, at the center if my body—my stomach.

"Or is it perhaps already over there, to be exact?" she corrected herself and moved her finger toward the restroom.

"N-No way...?"

"But yes. I blended that note into yesterday's Tonkatsu. You loved it, didn't you? Your Relic-flavored cutlet," she said with a brazen face. "So we learned that digesting a memo has the same effect as erasing the text. That's a step forward!"

So that was why she had prepared dinner the other day.

She dared use me as a laboratory rat...

"Good boys don't abuse a Relic to pass an exam, you know?"

Towako-san laughed teasingly and flicked my forehead.

My face turned ashen.

Ashen white like a corpse.

...Incidentally, I was in for a second supplementary exam.

With the exam slated for the following week, I started looking for a solution to this case.

My teacher probably thought that a day wasn't enough. He gave me a full week of time to study. I still vividly remember the raging smile—sounds strange, but is the truth—he showed me when he told me that, holding my blank answer sheet. That smile was going to haunt my nightmares. I wasn't going to remember that face forever. Even without the notebook Relic.

It was then that Towako-san and I made a deal.

She promised to give me a page of that notebook if I solved the case.

I wasn't going to fail this time. In other words, I wasn't going to eat it.

No, don't you tell me to study! If that would suffice, I wouldn't be relying on a notebook for that exam to begin with.

Anyways.

Concerning the reason why Etsuko-san couldn't forget that certain memory:

In my case, I forgot about the text when I ate and digested it. Pretty obvious, now that I thought about it, since the text was erased by stomach acid after all.

She visited just yesterday. It was very unlikely that her memory had yet to have been digested at that point, as she must have eaten it at least prior to the day before yesterday.

So why was she unable to forget nonetheless?

There was only one conceivable answer.

Which is to say, she hadn't eaten that memo.

She claimed to have done so, but her word wasn't of much weight in lieu of her poor memory and her forgetful nature. Perhaps, she had confused it with some other scrap she had eaten, or she had simply put it somewhere and had forgotten to eat it.

If I managed to locate that memo and erase it, she would be able to forget it.

Therefore, I decided to search her house.

Using the address Etsuko-san had told us, Saki and I headed to her house.

The reason for taking Saki with me was that I thought there might be spots a man should not rummage about, since Etsuko-san lived alone.

We passed by a closed elementary school that served us as a point of orientation, and entered the residential area not far from there. It didn't take long until we found the house in question. Etsuko-san was sweeping right before the entrance.

When I greeted her, she bowed her head in reply and said, "Excuse me, but do we know each other?"

"...I'm Tokiya Kurusu."

Etsuko-san took a notepad out of the pocket of her apron and clapped her hands together after she had looked something up. I sneaked a peek and found out that it was some sort of memo of her schedule today.

"Welcome! I've been waiting for you."

(But you forgot!)

Before I could make that remark, a man left the house next door. He was about in his late twenties and gave Etsuko-san a wave when he saw her. Apparently able to memorize at least the face of her neighbor, she greeted him with a smile.

The man looked at Etsuko-san and then at us. Perhaps we seemed like curious combination to him.

"Who are they?"

Searching for an answer, Etsuko muttered, "Umm..."

She didn't know how to put it.

"We are from the Tsukumodo Antique Shop. We have come to acquire items like antiques or old furniture."

At the perfect moment, Saki started her business talk. This was the pattern we often used in situations where we had to reveal ourselves. After all, we couldn't just give anyone an explanation of what Relics were.

"If you are interested as well, be welcome to get in touch with us."

"No, I do not have anything of interest for you."

While he wasn't suspicious of us, he quickly left and didn't want to have anything to do with us. After seeing that he had gone around the next corner, Etsuko-san let us in.

"Excuse the mess."

This was no empty phrase. There were indeed piles of cardboard boxes in the corridor and so forth. However, it was not like she had neglected cleaning the house.

"I haven't put everything in order yet since I moved here."

Now I got why there were cardboard boxes in the corridor and the living room. At the same time, the probability that she had left the scrap somewhere and forgotten about it grew. Or perhaps she had lost it while she was tidying things away from her move.

"Okay, let's begin, shall we?"

Because we couldn't just tell her, "You haven't eaten the memo but left it somewhere," we told her that she might have another Relic that caused her to remember.

While she owned one, she hadn't known about Relics until she heard it from us, so she believed us quite easily.

Etsuko-san lived alone in a two-storied house. Judging from the stains on the walls and the scars in the posts, the building wasn't new. To be honest, I had no clue why she would move into such a house instead of an apartment.

After we had been led to the living room, we decided on ask a few question for starters.

"That memory is still there, right?"

"Yes."

My faint hope that she might have forgotten by now was blasted in a snap.

"Okay, then could you tell us what's been going on recently? Specifically, have you done anything special during the last week?"

"Special?"

Etsuko-san opened her laptop and looked back at her actions this week.

"You even forget things that only happened a week ago?" I asked.

"Not everything, but parts."

"By the way, what are you always writing in your computer?"

"A diary on a daily basis."

On my request, she let me take a look. There were folders for every year and month, and in there were a bunch of text files for every day.

"In the beginning, I used real diaries, but they grew so much in number that it became bothersome to carry them around. Therefore, I switched to a computer."

Judging from the file size, her diary entries were very long.

"Okay, one week ago I stood up at seven in the morning. Then I had breakfast. I had toast, fried egg and salad. I also drank some black tea..."

"...You don't have to tell us such things."

How detailed did she write her entries? Anyway, that kind of information wasn't much use to us.

"Um, did you go somewhere during this week?" I asked.

Etsuko-san navigated her computer.

"Only when I made my purchases, and perhaps to your shop for some advise."

"...Did you take the notebook Relic with you for your purchases?"

"No. A a basic rule, I don't carry it around. Only my computer and perhaps a notepad."

(This eliminates the possibility that she has dropped it somewhere.)

"...By the way, when did you move here?"

"Just recently. At the beginning of the month...," she said and took a look at her computer. "Yes. At the beginning of the month."

(About two weeks ago... So I guess I should inquire about her move, too...)

That moment, Saki posed a question.

"When did you eat the memo anyway?"

Right. I hadn't asked that question. It had slipped my mind because I was confident that she hadn't eaten it. With that information, we knew until when she had the memo, and could investigate on Etsuko-san's actions thereafter.

I was thoughtless—I wasn't in the position to talk badly about Etsuko-san.

"Um... wait a moment, please."

She started looking it up on her computer. She had opened several folders, so the search was taking some time. She had probably no idea where it was.

"By the way, it ate it after moving here, right?"

If she had eaten—or more like, torn off—the note before moving, her previous house would come into question as well. If her memo had ended up in the trash bin but still got off undamaged, then we might already be at our wits' end.

"No, before."

"In your previous house?"

That put a spoke in my wheel. To my surprise, however, Etsuko-san shook her head.

"No. I ate it here!"

"Huh? But didn't you just say you ate it before moving here?"

"Yes."

...She lost me.

"Um, but ''when'' was that anyway? You needn't look it up. Just roughly. Um, one week... no, one month ago?"

"No," she shook her head.

"Ten years ago."

According to the explanation she gave us, she had lived in this house until ten years ago, and had moved somewhere else, just to return recently.

But she had eaten that note ten years ago. In other words, when she still lived here—which was ten years from now, and with two moves in between. Of course, we had no idea where that scrap of paper was.

We took a look around in the house just to be sure, but naturally our search remained fruitless.

"Should we set the house on fire and erase it for good?"

"Have you lost it?"

I quickly said, "Just joking!" when Saki scolded me. Although I was half-serious.

We had gone into Etsuko-san's room and were still searching for the memo.

It was a completely ordinary room with a desk, a bookshelf and a wardrobe, and a curtain atop the window. There were several post-it notes on the wardrobe that marked what was inside. She had probably developed her own tricks for her daily life. What puzzled me was that there were cardboard boxes here as well.

I asked Saki to search the bookshelf and the desk, whereas I went for the cardboard boxes. I had already gotten permission from Etsuko-san.

I unsealed one of the boxes and took an album out of it.

Since she didn't mind if we looked, I flicked through it.

"Cute."

"We're not here to play around," I complained to Saki who was peeking at the album over my shoulders, but still we continued looking through it.
[[Image:Tsukumodo_V1_P205.jpg|left|400px]]

It started off with photos of a baby, and recorded her gradual growth to a young girl. Around the time she went to elementary school, she started to resemble her current self. And at the time, she had still had her parents at both sides.

There was also a picture of her time at the hospital. She stood there with a bandage wrapped around her head and a flower bouquet in her hands. She was surrounded by a doctor and nurses. It was probably a picture of her discharge, and the only one of that time.

A few pages after, her father disappeared from the photos.

It was a couple of years after the accident. Only her mother remained at her side.

There had been no large span between the divorce and the decease of her mother; after only a few pictures, her parents were replaced by an aged man and woman on the pictures.

I suspected they were Etsuko-san's grandparents who had taken her in. They appeared on the photographs of her graduation from elementary, middle and high school, as well as her coming-of-age celebration. It seemed like a kind-hearted old couple.

I paged back to the last picture with her parents.

It was about ten years ago, when she was in elementary school.

It had immediately rang a bell with me when she told me that she had used the notebook ten years ago.

Her mother's accidental death, ten years ago.

The memory she had recorded in the Relic, ten years ago.

These two facts could not be unrelated.

The thing she wanted to forget was bound to have something to do with her mother's decease.

I had no idea what exactly she had recorded.

But I strongly doubted it was something pleasant.

There was probably more to it.

Something she couldn't tell anyone.

I had no clue what it was—no I did. But I sealed that thought away, because it was a crazy thought and absolutely not something to say carelessly.

I pushed the box with albums aside and pulled another one to me. It was labeled at the side as "Diaries (1)".

"Do you plan on reading the diaries as well?"

"I'll just skim through them. I'll try my best not to read anything."

I did have permission, but I had no intention of violating her privacy. That said, I was ready to read sections that might contain a clue.

I took out the diaries. They were all of high quality and had a leather binding. Quite extravagant and mature for an elementary schooler to use.

The diaries had their year marked on the cover.

They started fifteen years ago, about the time she was in the first year of elementary school.

"I suppose she started after she had met with an accident," Saki commented.

No wonder the diaries were of high quality and leather-bound!

To her, the memories recorded in those diaries were an irreplaceable treasure.

At least her parents must have thought so when they bought them for her.

I opened one of the diaries and found a clumsy handwriting that didn't match the splendidly made diary. The size of the letters was as irregular as it gets, there were misspellings all over the page, and the grammar had been ignored entirely. It was well-nigh unreadable.

Nevertheless, I was sure she had read through these entries again and again when she wanted to recall old memories.

The pages were worn with frequent use, and there were places that had gotten wet and had dried up, although I didn't know whether the cause was sweat or tears.

As time went by, the entries changed into a proper writing. However, I was taken aback by all the details.

Not only did they contain the events of every day, but also what time she stood up, what she ate, which train she took, what she was doing and thinking during the day, and so forth. Therefore, the number of diaries was quite overwhelming.

Probably this also served as some sort of rehabilitation. It was hard to guess how much time she had spent everyday to write those diaries.

I took another diary.

One that was written just ten years ago. The period of time she had used the Relic.

With a sting of remorse, I opened the diary.

Among other things, it contained the entry of the day of her mother's decease.

As always, it started with the time she stood up and what she had for breakfast, and contained a detailed report of her experiences at school.

However, it mentioned that she was scolded by her mother for neglecting her diary for once. Apparently, she had played together with her friends instead of going straight home.

There was a touch of irony in the fact that her mother fell from the stairs on that day of all days. Moreover, it happened when Etsuko-san was in the midst of writing her diary. The entry of that day stopped there.

I flipped the page. In the next entry she wrote about the decease of her mother at the hospital and the wake that was going to be held.

Even after that, she had continued writing her diary without skipping a day.

However, I didn't find anything she may have wanted to hide.

Well, if there was, she wouldn't have allowed me to freely look through them.

The entry that day that was broken off unfinished... how was it supposed to end?

...Or was the continuation written in the Relic?

"Why don't you take a break?" Etsuko-san startled me, standing beside me all of a sudden.

Even though I had permission, I couldn't help feeling a little awkward when I closed the diary.

"Y-You have a stunning collection of diaries there!"

"Yes. It has become so many because I kept writing them," she answered without any concerns. "So, how about it?"

"Eh? ...Ah, the break? Yes."

We accepted her proposal and put the diaries back into their cardboard box.

While at it, I was seized by misgivings.

(Is it okay for us to help her erase that memory?)

We didn't know what she wanted to forget.

But it couldn't be anything good.

But no matter how much she wanted to forget, what if it was a memory that was meant to be remembered?

"Um, may I ask you a question?"

"Yes?"

"...Why do you want to forget about ''it''?"

After a moment's silence, she answered with a sad face,

"Because I want to start a new life."

While drinking a cup of coffee, we were taking a break in the living room.

As we had already been searching for a few hours, I had gotten a stiff neck. However, my doubts were fruitless. We didn't even find any hints.

The odds were against us finding a ten years old scrap of paper.

But still, why did Etsuko-san get the wish to forget that memory now of all times?

What was the reason that a memory she had left untouched for ten years became unnecessary?

"May I ask a question?" Saki, who had been silent so far, said.

"Yes, go ahead."

"What's the relationship between you and the man we saw earlier?"

Against all my expectations, she asked something entirely unrelated.

I already prepared myself to make a remark, when suddenly Etsuko-san turned as red as a beet and cast her eyes down.

"To tell the truth, we're marrying next month."

Saki had probably guessed their relationship right away. I had not. What a sharp-eyed girl.

"Congratulations," Saki said bluntly as if she didn't know the meaning of Etsuko-san's words, but Etsuko-san gave her thanks without taking offense. "How did you get to know him?"

"He's a childhood friend, or perhaps, he was something like the boy next door? We lost contact entirely when I moved away, but he happened to frequent the shop I worked at, you know..."

I listened to her without going into the question whether she was really able to work.

"But at first, I didn't realize who he is. Not only me, but it was the same for him. Because I used my father's surname when I still lived here, he didn't realize who I am, either. It stayed that way until I visited his parents to introduce myself. That was quite the surprise."

"A fateful encounter."

"Yes, indeed."

Etsuko-san was smiling, but a shadow or some sort of hesitation loomed in her expression.

"Is there a problem?" I asked thoughtlessly, suspecting she had marriage blues.

However, this time she tensed up visibly.

I regretted my own stupidity.

Hadn't I thought about it just moments ago?!

About the reason why a memory she had left untouched for ten years became unnecessary!

If she had to forget it ''now'', there was only one reason.

The memory she wanted to forget was an obstacle to her wedding—to her happiness.

Hence, she wanted to forget it before her marriage.

Suddenly, the telephone rang, breaking the heavy silence.

Etsuko-san stood up after asking to be excused, and went to the telephone. She accepted the call after she had picked up the pen that was placed next to the phone with a notepad. She had probably formed a habit of recording her calls.

"Yes, Uwajima speaki... father..."

My full attention was directed at Etsuko-san's voice and her holding the breath. 

If my memory served me right, she did no longer keep in contact with her divorced father. I didn't want to be rude, but I couldn't help perking up my ears.

"...How did you find out? Grandpa? I see..."

Apparently, she hadn't informed her father that she moved back here. Her grandfather had gotten in touch with him when the wedding became official.

They kept talking for a while.

The reunion of father and daughter was everything but touching. Etsuko-san didn't wish to see him again. She was rejecting any contact with him.

"...Do you remember what I said at mother's funeral? Please forget it. I will do so, too. And please keep away from me," she said one-sidedly and hung up and let out a sigh.

Her face was full of distress. However, recalling our presence, she quickly slapped on a smile.

"Did you keep in contact with your father?"

"No. This was the first time since the funeral of my mother. ...Despite everything, I recognized him by his voice. You remember such things forever, don't you?"

Etsuko-san seemed to be surprised about the fact that she had recognized her father by phone.

It had been about ten years. I felt that this was the bonds between parent and child, and completely unrelated to memory and such.

"What kind of father was he?"

"He's not a bad person. He would just often get into an argument with my mother about my upbringing. He was against keeping such a diary. He wanted to bring me up like a normal child. My mother often said he was too concerned about the eyes of the neighborhood. I think so as well."

Indeed, keeping such a detailed diary was a little abnormal from a normal perspective. But as there was an accident, this couldn't be helped. But her father had apparently been unable to think so.

"Do you have a grudge against him?"

"That's not the problem. It's something entirely different. I neither hate him, nor do I bear a grudge against him. I just don't want to have anything to do with someone my mother has severed all contact with... since it's like I were betraying her. And I don't want to betray her any more."

Does keeping in touch with her father her mother has broken contact equal betraying her? Or was there another reason to it?

Either way, judging from the way she talked, she wasn't down on her father or anything, but merely kept away because of her mother.

But still, I couldn't help being surprised that she remembered that sort of thing rather well.

"Oh, did I dampen the mood...? Ah, right. Please wait a moment."

Etsuko-san forcefully put on a bright face and went into another room. She returned carrying a snow-white wedding dress.

I'm not versed in wedding dresses, but it looked like a slightly old design.

"My father chose this dress for my mother. Hideki-san offered me to be a new one or rent one, but I insisted on wearing this. I want to show at least a little filial piety."

Etsuko-san held the dress in front of her.

She would have looked great in it.

"Come here, Maino-san."

Beckoned over by Etsuko-san, Saki walked hesitantly to her.

Etsuko-san turned Saki around and held the dress in front of her.

"Do you like it, Kurusu-san?" With a mischievous smile, she asked for my impressions.

(Don't abuse me to brighten the mood... I can't say that I like it, now can I?)

"Fine feathers make fine birds."

"I knew you'd say that."

"What? Did you want me to praise you?"

"No?"

"Don't get angry!"

"I'm not angry."

"But you are!"

"Whatever."

I heard Etsuko-san whisper into her ear, "He's just shy," when Saki turned away from me.

(Please say such things hidden from me.)

Saki's fashion show continued for a while until Etsuko-san was satisfied, and then she went back to the other room to stow away the dress.

Saki looked at me with an inquiring look. No, she wasn't asking for my impressions.

"I know!"

Etsuko-san had been behaving a little strange since the call from her father. The scene she had made just now had been obviously forced. Probably it was just sympathy I had, but I hoped her marriage would bring her happiness, because of the worries about her parents and her accident and its after effects were tormenting her.

I wanted to let her forget "that memory" whatever it was going to take. Saki was probably of the same mind.

Suddenly, I noticed something moving outside the window. I opened the curtain and took a look out of the window. Someone was peeking into the house from behind the wall. He quickly ducked, but it was already too late for him.

"Who are you!"

"Tokiya?"

I rushed out without even answering her.

I quickly looked in the direction the man escaped. He was just going around the corner. I hurried after him.

When I came around the same corner, I spotted him from behind.

He wasn't so far away. Without wanting to brag, I'm in good form. As I sped after him, he ran round another corner.

As we were in a residential area, there were lots of branches, but there were almost no people on the streets, so I wasn't going to lose him.

He kept fleeing desperately. But I was faster. The distance between us gradually shrunk. I reached out. Just a little more. The man turned around to take a look behind—that moment his speed dropped slightly. My hand touched him.

I took a leap at him.

With full vigor, the both of us rolled on the ground.

However, my hand didn't let go of him.

"Got you!"

I grabbed the prone man and turned him face-up.

"You...?"

I knew his face.

<div style="text-align: center">◆</div>

<div style="font-family: Times New Roman, Times New Roman, Times, serif">
When I returned to my room to put away my wedding dress, the boxed-in diaries and an opened album caught my eye.

They were things that meant much more to me than the wedding dress.

The precious diaries mother had bought for me.

The precious picture of me and my mother.

Out of worry about me and my defective memory, she had bought countless diaries for me. She had taken countless photographs of me for the album. Not only on our vacation, but also when there was an event at school or even on normal days.

Thanks to her, I was able to keep a lot of my recollections.

If it hadn't been for my mother, and if I hadn't continued doing as she had told me, I would have been empty like a blank sheet by now.

But I was going to betray her.

I was going to betray my mother who had wished for my happiness more than anyone else.

"Forgive me... Mom..."

I embraced the diary. I couldn't suppress my tears.

"Forgive me... Mom, but I will throw that memory away and become happy."

Even now I still hesitated to erase that memory.

But a word from my mother had brought me to that decision.

"I don't need anything if you attain happiness!"

These were words she had left behind for me the day before she passed away.

She hadn't foreseen her death, but these words became something like her last will by chance.

And her will lived on in my heart.

Therefore, I was going to betray her.

I was able to protect her last will, even if I betrayed her.

"You have wished for my happiness more than anyone else, so you'll understand, right?"

Therefore, I—

"I'll attain happiness. So please forgive me."

Suddenly, the bell rang.

I put away the diary and headed toward the entrance after wiping off my tears.

Kurusu-san and Maino-san weren't in the living room.

Although perplexed, I still went to the door and looked through the peephole. I held my breath.

"Father..."

</div>

<div style="text-align: center">◆</div>

"Hideki-san...?"

"Could you get off me for starters?" he said, smiling wryly. Apparently he wasn't going to flee anymore.

For the time being, I decided to listen to him and got off him.

Hideki-san stood up as he brushed off the stains from his suit. I followed suit.

"Oh boy, I used to be a marathon runner when I was young, but looks like I get too little exercise."

"You peeked into the house just now, right?" I asked to be sure, but he admitted it right away. "Why did you do that?"

"I was worried! Look, you know Etsuko-san. After hearing that story about buying off antiques, I suspected that you meant to deceive her. Since I couldn't shake of my worries, I came back to take a look. But watching you guys would have been like saying 'I don't trust you', so I watched from outside."

Understanding what he wanted to say, I nodded.

From his perspective, it was only natural to be worried about her. All the more because he knew her well.

"May I ask?"

"What?"

"What did you come for? I've never heard of any antiques in her belongings."

"As there seems to be a misunderstanding, let me tell you that the articles our shop handles are a little different from the antiques you know. Excuse the lacking explanation, but let's just say they're ''special''."

Relics are not commonly known. If I had told him we handled tools with a special power, he would have grown even more suspicious of us.

(Maybe next time we should pose as employees from a second-hand shop who came for household utensils and electric appliances.)

"In other words, in her house there is something of value for our shop. It's something she has inherited from her mother, and..."

"Tokiya," Saki called as she rushed to me with a wild breath.

Apparently, she had followed me.

"Thank goodness. I was about to get lost."

"Then why didn't you just stay there?"

"I had no idea what was going on when you rushed out all of a sudden! ...Hideki-san? Hideki-san was that suspicious character?"

"Suspicious character? Now don't exaggerate. Hideki-san was only watching what we were doing."

"Really? On my way here I heard people talk about a suspicious character that has been lingering about again, so I was sure it was him."

"Aah, about that. Recently there have been reports of a suspicious character in these quarters. I haven't seen him myself, but according to our neighbors, he has been peeping at her house. But it's not me! He's said to be about fifty."

A suspicious character peeping at Etsuko-san's house who's about fifty years old?

She hadn't mentioned anything about such a person. We had no one in mind.

(No, wait. A man who's about fifty? I have never met him, but there ''is'' a suspect.

If we consider how old Etsuko-san is, he should be about that age.)

"He's appeared recently?"

"Well, yeah."

It had also ben recently that her grandparents had gotten in touch with him. As it was the house he had lived in the past, it would be no surprise if he knew the address.

Come to think of it, there was a phone call not long ago. What if that was to check if she was at home...?

"That man might be Etsuko-san's father."

"No, her father divorced and isn't around anymore. They haven't met in over ten years."

"Eh? Why do you..."

I was going to ask why he knew, but of course he did. Hideki-san was her childhood friend and most likely knew her father in person.

I noticed another thing.

It was not only Etsuko-san and her father who knew about what happened ten years ago. Hideki-san might know as well.

But as a mere employee at an antique shop, I was not in the position to ask him about it.

To begin with, there was no time anyway.

"Saki, we're going back! Hideki-san, you too!"

Leaving behind only these words, I ran back to Etsuko-san's house without waiting for an answer.

Perhaps it was a crazy thought.

Perhaps it was absurd.

But it was something I had been thinking the whole time. Ever since I realized that there was a connection between the ten-years old memory she wanted to forget and her mother's decease.

If it was only an accident, there was no secret to hide.

If it was only an accident, there was no secret to forget.

This is a hypothesis.

But if Etsuko-san and Hideki-san's reunion had triggered something—

If they shared a secret and their marriage was a thorn in her father's flesh, it would make sense if his action was triggered now.

But what was he going to do after such a long time? That was the question.

I opened the door and rushed into her house.

"Etsuko-san!" I yelled, but there was no reply.

I rushed through the corridor and jumped into the living room.

Etsuko-san was nowhere to be seen. But in her room, I found a man.

A man, who was about fifty and had partly white hair, turned to me, surprised. In his hands, an album and a diary.

"W-Who are you?"

"You're Etsuko-san's father, aren't you?"

"Y-Yes...?"

"Where is she?"

Even though I talked in a strong voice, she didn't appear.

"What have you done to her?!"

"Calm down," said Saki, who had come in a few moments later, as she clung to me from behind and held me back from attacking the old man. "Her shoes aren't here. Where did she go?"

"Aah, she was called out by phone and just left. She asked me to look after the house."

"Look after the house?"

I felt how my boiling blood cooled down after hearing that surprising answer.

"This is also his house, so why should he not be here?" Saki said.

"W-Well..."

However, after hearing that, Etsuko-san's father straightened himself and said with a bitter smile,

"This isn't my house anymore! I have abandoned this place. I don't even have the right to call myself her father anymore. As you said, I shouldn't be here," he declared and stood up. "You two, are you her friends?"

"Ah, yeah. Kind of," I nodded vaguely as I didn't know how to reply.

"Can I leave the house in your care, then? I think I'll take my leave."

"Eh? Don't you want to wait for her return?"

"I actually came to give her the money I had set aside for her marriage, but she won't accept it. I'm going to hand it over to my father-in-law instead... Please convey my greetings to her. And also tell her that I won't bother her anymore."

"W-Wait a moment, please! Saki, go fetch Etsuko-san."

I was unsure if I could just let him go, so I wanted Saki to bring Etsuko-san, but her father said,

"She's meeting Hideki-kun right now, so please don't disturb them."

"Huh?"

What did he just say? —Hideki-san?

"There was a call from him just now. Or do you not know Hideki-kun? He's her husband-to-be!"

"We know. But Hideki-san has been together with us until just now."

Come to think of it, he hadn't come back here with us.

"When did you get the call?"

"Just now. A few moments before you arrived here. It seemed like an urgent matter."

(What's that supposed to mean... almost as if to make us miss her...)

I started to feel strong qualms.

Had I gotten something completely the wrong way?

A thought crossed my mind. A thought I had had earlier.

''It's not only Etsuko-san and her father who know about what happened ten years ago. Hideki-san might know as well.''

(Why did I miss the possibility that was a step ahead from there?)

The possibility that Hideki-san, her childhood friend, was involved in the incident.

"I'm sorry, but please tell us if you know what happened ten years ago."

Her father's grew visibly pale.

"Right. Her mother passed away. What happened at the time?" I added.

"...My wife slipped and fell from the stairs. Unfortunately, she..."

"That's all? What about Etsuko-san at the time?"

"Apparently, she was locked in her room in the second floor because she had misbehaved."

"That's all? Didn't she say anything more?"

"......"

"Please tell us! It's important!"

After a short silence, he muttered, "....All right."

"She said that Hideki-kun had pushed her mother down."

I was left speechless.

"I only met her once at the funeral. She told me then. But at the time, he was still in elementary school, so he would have never done that. I suspect she made this up because she didn't want to blame herself, because she believed this wouldn't have happened if she hadn't misbehaved."

Finally I realized what the ten-years old memory she wanted to forget was.

Etsuko-san witnessed ten years ago how Hideki-san killed her mother. But her father didn't believe her. No one believed her.

Because she didn't trust her own memory, she wrote the truth down in the Relic and ate it to make sure she wouldn't forget. I don't know why she ate it. Either to make herself remember, or to hide it.

However, she met Hideki-san again.

She met him again without knowing who he was—and fell in love.

Therefore, she wanted to forget the truth about her mother's death. She wanted to forget that the man she loved had killed her mother.

"Tell me one more thing," I asked. "Has her brain ''really'' been damaged and caused her memory to be defective?"

Her father widened his eyes.

That was enough for me.

"Her memory is operating properly, right?"

While talking to Etsuko-san, I entertained doubts several times. When we asked her about her past, she would always consult her computer. But there were never any contradictions to what she had said before.

While she was forgetful and a scatterbrain, her long-term memory seemed just fine. Everything she had forgotten was quite normal.

I don't remember how long my record of forgetting things in elementary school was, either. I don't remember what I ate a week ago. But she considered forgetting such things ''strange''.

She had no confidence in her memory... no, she was obsessed with thinking so.

"...It's like you said. Her memory is operating perfectly fine! She has only suffered from a loss of memory, but her memory itself remained undamaged. Sure, she's very forgetful and has trouble remembering faces, but there's no big difference from others. The doctor also confirmed that there was no problem to her brain."

"Then why is it that she thinks so about herself...?"

"My wife is the origin. When Etsuko forgot something, she would persuade herself that the accident was to blame and forced Etsuko to memorize lots of useless things. She bought diaries for her and made her write her diary every day. In extreme detail, Etsuko had to write what she had thought and what she had done, and even pointless things like what she had eaten. If she didn't write the diary, my wife would beat her and lock her up in her room until she completed the entry. Naked, at that. I often got into an argument with my wife because of that. This was also the cause for our divorce. When I rebuked her and told her that she was going to far, she yelled at me that I was not thinking about Etsuko. But I could understand why she became like that."

"Was there a reason?"

"Etsuko's accident. But not the accident itself... after meeting with the accident, she was unconscious for a week. When she finally woke up and looked at her mother, her first words were:

—'Who are you?'

Most likely her memories were only a little mixed up. She recognized her shortly after. But this didn't deaden the shock my wife had gotten. From the fact that Etsuko had lost memories of her past, she arrived at the idea that Etsuko's memory had gotten defective. Therefore, she tried to make her remember more than necessary. Because of that, Etsuko also started to believe that her memory were defective. No matter how much I told her otherwise, she just wouldn't believe me."

Etsuko-san had told us that she could not forget what had happened ten years ago. No wonder. Who would forget the death of one's mother after only ten years? It's a matter of course that one can't forget it for a lifetime. It's a matter of course to remember.

The information of her defective memory had misled me.

It was a completely normal thing.

"I'm sorry, but did she say where she went?"

"Mm, she left in a hurry, you know. But I think she wrote a memo...?"

I went to the phone.

Next to the phone was a notepad and a pen. A rather thick notepad. She had most likely the habit of taking notes, since she had no confidence in her memory. It may go without saying, but the memo where she had noted the meeting point had been torn off.

But it was still there. The meeting place was still written there.

I took the pen and moved it over the new memo. While paying attention not to press to hard, I painted the memo black. Fine white lines became visible on the black surface. The pressure of her pen stroke had left an impression on the underlying sheet.

"......"

But all the impressions that had been made over time overlapped and made it impossible to read it.

Because several letters overlapped each other, it looked only like a pattern that couldn't be read at all or that could be read as anything.

I sharpened my eyes and looked again at the memo. However, the more I tried, the more I failed to make sense of it.

"Tokiya..."

Saki's uneasy voice stroked my back.

It was then that a painful noise crossed my mind—

Etsuko-san and Hideki-san were facing each other.

I don't know where this is.

Etsuko-san was standing with her back to a fence, and Hideki-san was standing in front of her.

I was watching this scene from afar. To be more exact, it was like looking down from a higher building at the roof of a lower building.

Etsuko-san was shaking her head.

I couldn't make out her expression. I could only see her back. Most likely she was appealing to him, but I couldn't understand what she said.

Hideki-san slowly approached her.

She took a step back but had to stop because she bumped against the fence.

Behind the fence was nothing.

My field of vision moved downward.

Below the fence was a wall with windows. There were a lot of window glasses that were neatly arranged in a regular interval. An apartment house? No. There was a round clock on the wall.

My field of vision moved back up.

At the same time, Etsuko-san bent back and was pushed over the fence.

"———!"

"Tokiya!"

Saki's strong voice brought me back.

The future my artificial right eye—a Relic named "Vision"—had shown me, was the worst that could happen.

"What's wrong?"

"If we don't do something, Etsuko-san is going to be..."

I was about to say ''killed'', but I held myself back. I couldn't say this in front of her father. But Saki had apparently guessed.

"Where is she?" she asked.

"At school."

A fenced roof, regularly arranged windows, a clock on the wall.

The only building that incorporated all of these elements was a school.

"They are at school."

I looked again at the memo. The unreadable letters. Within them I could recognize something.

—"Closed School".

"It's that closed school."

The place "Vision" had shown to me was no doubt a roof of a school.

Etsuko-san was going to be pushed off the roof by Hideki-san.

I looked at the clock. The time was 18:45. The time I had read off the clock at the school was a few minutes before 19:00.

We could still make it in time. But we didn't have much. We had to hurry.

"Quick, Saki!"

I rushed out of the house and ran toward the closed school.

I jumped over the chained metal school gate and entered the school area.

Saki was probably unable to keep up with me and still underway. But I couldn't wait for her.

This school consisted of two buildings with a courtyard in between. The buildings were marked as "Building A" and "Building B". Nearly all window glasses were already broken and the courtyard was covered by a cloud of dust, indicating the age of the school. The doors had been broken off, too, destroyed by someone thoughtless. This made it easy to advance into the buildings.

According to "Vision", they were on the roof.

The question was on which.

I compared the two buildings.

However, both of them looked the same, making it hard to determine which one "Vision" had shown to me.

They were only connected at the first floor, so I would have to go all the way down to the first floor if I picked the wrong one.

The building "Vision" had shown to me had a fence, windows and a clock.

But those existed on both buildings.

(Which one is it?)

I compared the two school buildings like one of those "Spot The Difference" games.

But I didn't find out which it was.

I turned around to the school gate. There was no sign of Saki.

"What's that slowpoke doing!"

If she had been here, we could have split into groups...!

A look at the clock revealed to me that it was soon 19:00.

The time limit was almost over. No time to wait for Saki.

(Which one do I pick?

I'll have to go by instinct.)

The moment I thought so, I noticed.

There was one difference.

Their height.

Both had three floors, but either because of a miscalculation or because of the ground, the Building A was somewhat taller.

Without a moment's hesitation, I selected the lower building—Building B—and entered it.

There was no guarantee that it really was Building B.

My only reason was that in my vision, I had looked down from a higher building at a lower building. However, the only function "Vision" has is to show me someone's death. The perspective does not matter in any way. In other words, it was not sure if I had looked down from Building A at Building B.

However, right now I had nothing else to rely on.

I rushed up to the roof at a breath and opened the metal door.

My prediction proved true.

But I was fatally out of luck.

No, I mustn't blame my luck for it.

If anything, I had to blame it on my slow-wittedness or my indecision.

By the time I arrived at the roof, Etsuko-san was nowhere to be seen anymore.

The only thing I saw was Hideki-san's back and a figure that was disappearing beyond the fence.

Hideki-san turned around.

His eyes were bloodshot and his breath was wild. In contrast to his absurdly heavily shivering lips, his eyes were widened so much he couldn't even wink anymore.

He only required a few seconds to regain his composure after recognizing me.

By just that, he regained his composure.

Even though he had pushed down his wife-to-be, he regained his damn composure in a mere few seconds.

"Why are you here?"

"To stop you from killing her...!"

Hideki-san widened his eyes even more. Had he thought I hadn't seen him?

"T-That's..."

"Don't even try to tell me it was an accident," I declared.

He swallowed the word he was about to say.

"Tell me, why?"

"...To protect myself."
[[Image:Tsukumodo_V1_P239.jpg|right|400px]]

He realized that he couldn't talk himself out anymore, and admitted that he had pushed her down. But I couldn't make sense of his reason.

"To protect yourself?"

"Yes. She's given you the gist of it, hasn't she?"

"...About what happened ten years ago?"

Hideki-san nodded silently.

"So you ''did'' kill her mother?"

He contorted his face because I had apparently opened an old wound.

"That was an accident. Just because Etsuko played with me before going home, she was beaten and locked in by that hag. I didn't know what she was so angry about. Etsuko was crying. Crying to let her out. Therefore, I tried to help her. When I did so, I got in a quarrel with her mother, and eventually she lost balance and... I was still a child and desperate to help Etsuko... It wasn't on purpose..."

To Etsuko-san's mother, keeping the diary was more important than playing. She wanted her daughter to write her diary even if it meant to lock her in. But to Hideki-san, this was of no importance. He only wanted to help his crying friend.

But that didn't matter right now. Those regrets were completely insignificant.

For they didn't explain anything.

"That doesn't make a reason to kill her!"

"Even if she approached me to take revenge?"

His contorted face became even more twisted. A laugh resounded. But a bitter laugh.

"It's a ridiculous story! Because she had changed her surname, I started going out with her without even realizing that she was Etsuko. I didn't realize until I visited my parents to introduce her as my fiancee.

My heart sank to my boots when she said that she had once lived here, while pointing at the house next to ours... After that, she bothered to move back into her previous house. It was then that I realized that she had approached me, making it look like coincidence!"

"She showed no sign of such an intention."

"But she did when she was alone with me. Every day. As if there was no need to hide it anymore, because I had noticed. She ''provocatively'' wrote those detailed diaries, saying that it was to remember that day's events. To tell me indirectly that she hadn't forgotten what I had done! But every time I unobtrusively asked her about her past, she feigned ignorance. On purpose. To make a fool of me!

...I experienced firsthand what 'applying the screws by degrees' means! I couldn't sleep in the same room like her anymore. I couldn't sleep because I was so afraid of what she might do to me. The decisive factor was that she got in touch with her father after ten years. I tried to convince myself that she did so for our wedding ceremony. But she kept denying it. Even though I asked her about it several times. I was sure they had a scheme. Every time I heard the rumor of a suspicious guy peeking at her house, I thought he was really observing my house. I lived in fear that he might break in, and didn't sleep a wink. I was at my limit."

"Therefore, you called her out to this roof and wanted to make things clear?"

"Yes."

"She denied it, didn't she?"

"Oh, she did. But..."

"Of course she did. Because she never had such intentions to begin with."

"You don't know anything!"

"But I do. After all, she asked us to erase her memories from ten years ago."

"?"

Hideki-san pulled a baffled face, as if he was unable to understand me.

"She tried to forget. Because she loved you from heart, she tried to forget what happened ten years ago. But she couldn't, so she asked us for help."

"......"

"It seems like you think that she got in touch with her father behind your back, but it was her grandfather who got in touch with him. She didn't tell you because she didn't know for real. Today was the first time they talked with each other."

"Lies..."

"I learned from no one else but her ''father'' that she had said that you killed her mother ten years ago. She didn't tell us a word about it. No, she even tried to eliminate that truth by erasing her memory of it."

"Lies...," Hideki-san whispered aghast.

"Tell me... you're lying..."

I don't know if he searched for someone to ask or if he wanted to check if the one he was supposed to ask still lived, but he leaned over the fence and looked down.

That moment, the old fence started to bend over.

Unstoppable, but almost like in slow-motion, the fence broke and Hideki-san disappeared from the roof.

<div style="text-align: center">◆</div>

Nearly a week had passed since that day.

I was studying hard at the shop because the second supplementary exam was on the following day.

I decided against using the notebook Relic. In the end, the notebook stayed in our care, but when thinking about the emotions Etsuko-san's mother had given it to her daughter with, I couldn't use it carelessly.

Forgetting is a gift given to man.

But how do we forget things?

I believe that is because we stop thinking about them.

However bitter a memory is, it gradually fades away with time. Because we stop thinking about that "something" in our cruelly unstoppable daily lives, the memory fades away.

Until we forget it one day.

But on the other hand, as long as we keep thinking about it, we will absolutely not forget it. The memory won't even fade.

The death of her dear mother. The big mistake of her loved one. No way she would just stop thinking about it.

She must have recalled it every time she opened her diary—the diaries she had received from her mother.

Despite everything, her memories had surely faded a little.

Those ten years had surely made her bitter memories fade a little.

But she met Hideki-san again.

From the day she realized who he was, she started thinking about it again. She recalled that day over and over.

She wanted to forget those memories because she loved him. But the more she wanted to do so, the more she recalled.

Her strong wish to forget had, quite the reverse, fortified her memories over and over and turned it into a firm and clear memory. What an irony.

"But why did Etsuko-san move to the house next to Hideki-san's?" I wondered.

"Probably she wanted to be together with her mother. In the house full of memories, even just for the little while until her wedding. I think this was Etsuko-san's subtle way of atoning for her sin," Saki said as she put a cup of black tea in front of me.

The sweet fragrance of black tea tickled my nose. By the way, Towako-san was pulling a grimace while looking at our sales figures.

It was the same sight as always. Will there be a day I forget this sight?

Suddenly, the door opened and the attached bell announced the arrival of a customer.

Saki went to welcome the customer.

It was Etsuko-san.

By a miracle, she had come off with just a light blow because she had bounced against an awning and then fell on a mat that had been left there by chance. As regards Hideki-san, he unfortunately hadn't had as much luck and missed the mat. Even worse, he had fallen right on the fence that had stuck into the ground and—

"Thank you very much for your help. And forgive me for the belated thanks."

She had undergone investigation.

As we had been involved as well, we received notification from the Police that this case was set aside as an accident in the end.

The Police don't know that Hideki-san tried to kill her. Just like they don't know that he had killed Etsuko-san's mother.

"Did you come for this?" Towako-san asked as she held the notebook aloft.

Etsuko-san shook her head. "You can keep it."

"Are you sure? Didn't we agree that I'd just take a few pages?"

"It's okay. I have enough mementos of my mother, and I don't need it anymore."

"Oh?" I noticed that she didn't have her computer with her.

She looked at me and nodded.

"I don't carry it around any longer. I finally managed to believe my father. My brain has taken no damage and my memory is not defective."

Perhaps it was this kind of confidence she had needed the whole time.

Not a bunch of diaries, and certainly not a notebook that let her remember anything.

"It's really curious. So far I used to believe my memory was cloudy, but now it seems awfully clear to me."

A tear rolled down her cheek.

She looked very, very sorrowful.

"Etsuko-san?"

"Truly, it's all so clear. Be it my mother's death or Hideki-san's attempt to kill me, I remember it all so clearly.

—It's all so ''unbearably'' clear. So..."

Etsuko-san continued.

"Is there a notebook that makes me forget everything I write in it?"

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File talk:UtsuroNoHako5 1.jpg

2012-07-11T03:44:45Z

LB Kasen: Created page with "Who is that? Is it Maria? Her hair's about the right length, but a bit too light."

Who is that? Is it Maria? Her hair's about the right length, but a bit too light.