Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

User talk:DGreater1

2007-05-23T10:06:35Z

Mashu: /* Progress */

User talk:Mashu

2007-05-21T09:06:52Z

Mashu: /* Tsukkomi */ Corrections

== Tsukkomi ==

Tsukkomi is best interpreted as a jab at something. It's not as complicated as I've seen some comments about it. I'm sure you guys already know what it is, but I'll just explain just in case. It's basically where one butts in and makes corrections to someone's stupid mistake or statement.

Example: Kotomi tells Tomoya that it's okay for students of this school to come to the library freely. He thinks:
今は閉室時間だろとか、そもそも今日は学校休みだろとか、ツッコミたいことは山ほどあったが、問題はそこじゃない。
*Wouldn't you think that: Mountains of corrections such as 'isn't it supposed to be closed' and 'school is not even active today' came to mind, but that wasn't the problem.
*Sounds a lot better than: There are mountains of tsukkomi I could do such as 'isn't it supposed to be closed' and 'school is not even active today' but that wasn't the problem.

Discuss!

== Un and Uun. ==

Well, un and uun is obviously yes and no, though you'll also notice this is Kotomi's given behavioural pattern. As you notice, she is denoted as very childish, since despite having the characteristic of being a number one student, she is absolutely poor in socialising. Thus, un and uun were used to denote this specific pattern that does not exist in any other character. Since Kotomi's route is independent given that she does not exist in any other route, using an abnormal amount of yes and no had certain redundancy. It also made itself different than hai and iye (er I don't know the roomanji for the other no), because that version of yes and no exists in the other girl characters within the same route, yet they are so much different.

You'll also notice she says are and arere a lot. Surely it is huh but under context it's a very obvious implication. Again, child-like behaviour emphasized. Due to the oddity of repetition, it causes using this entirely in English seem the more awkward, especially when many notations are purely Japanese such as a certain Japanese idioms, which we probably wouldn't know immediately, as well as other things. Also are would be huh, but so would arere, as the second huh wouldn't denote the extra confusion or the denoted repetition.

In this sense un and uun can seem more like sounds of agreement. Like mmhmm and mmm mmm/nn nn (... yes and no). Like, it's supposed to be a notation of agreement or understanding, but not a strict yes, since that would be hai, or something like that. Well, that's just what I think. Same thing with no, it seems more like the version that you would do while shaking your head. You're saying no, but you're saying "nn nn" or in Japanese, "uun", though we wouldn't put mmhmm or nn nn or however you spell those.

Of course that doesn't mean un and uun are better than yes and no. Just wanted to briefly state why it was left like that, as you'll notice if you went through all the seens, all of them are un and uun for this specification that denotes Kotomi's independent personality that has no similarities to any characters, thus it was used as a distinguishing pattern. Though again, it is a notation of the childish behaviour, thus you see certain excessive repetition. You also already see how communication itself is already two different pages.

Though in all honesty it was simply used as personal flavouring, which was propelled by how independent the route is. You'll notice nearly immediately that when playing the game, you cannot have Kotomi routes coexist with any other routes, aside from the first day you meet her through skipping class.

Yes and no is fine, though there will be a ridiculously high amount of it. It would be English accurate, but by text alone it is less obvious of the mood or tone that one is a childish yes and the other a normal yes. So yes and no weren't used as distinguishing factours.

I repeated myself too much. Kotomi's route has more variability and less limitations, so it's easier to interchange. Notice how the language reversal was already a problem, though un and uun was merely preference. Yes and no is still correct. Of course there were also problems with not recognising lines from famous books or scientific names. Then you also have the SFX of a nod, then Tomoya saying she nodded, same goes with stopping, spinning, and whatever other sound effects occur in this route given the tsukkomi implications as well as Kotomi's relative cluenessness and odd behaviour. Again, that was why un and uun was used, to make the responses contain the oddity yet under context being obvious that there's more like sounds of agreement rather than a proper yes and no despite the fact that she is polite, she is still childish. So yeah, implicative notation is how I see it. I'm not going to change anything though.

--[[User:Amoirsp|Amoirsp]]
: Pros & Cons of maintaining the '''Un''' & '''Uun''' 
:
:'''Pros:''' As for me who knows how '''un''' and '''uun''' works, maintaining it has a good deal of reflecting a bit of Kotomi's timid personality which is one of the aspect that differentiate her to the other girls. It also eliminates the redundancy of too much ''yes'', ''okay'', ''no'', ''not really'' and it fits how the word and voice is single syllable. And it also maintains her universal reply (all purpose agreement and disagreement with something.) and gives the reader an imagination that she might be shaking her head for ''uun'' and nodding once for ''un''. It's almost the same as maintaining the way Fuuko says her name in most of her sentences :3
:'''Cons:''' One of the cons is I'm not sure if most people would be able to understand how '''un''' and '''uun'''... 
:
:But anyway, I guess I'm a little bit in favor of maintaining it since I (personally) have no problem with it.
:--[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]]

:It really doesn't matter to me how it's left, and I already know why it was left as un and uun. It'll just have to be real clear what un and uun means to the players. I was just more concerned about how the players will feel about un and uun.
:
:My real concern is the reversing of the languages. I notice that some places where she's reading something in English, it was translated as her reading in Japanese, or a phrase in English is switched into a phrase in Japanese. I think this would just make things even more confusing, since the setting is already in Japan. Since the players are already aware that everybody in the game is Japanese, and that the game itself is Japanese, I really don't think any language should be reversed.
:--[[User:Mashu|Mashu]] 21:56, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
::Oh about the language reversal on her route? The problem is the climax of her route. I really believe that it requires to reverse that part there because there's a purpose why that line is in English... and I don't think reversing that alone would be good with the flow of the translation. Take for example the scissor part with Kotomi in the bookshop. She said scissors in her first explanation but in the second explanation, she said, "In English it's scissor..." which is kind of redundant that's why I reversed it as "In Japanese..." that part also exist with Yukine's route where Sunohara said, "Really" in English then Tomoya commented on it with "More English words came out." It will look redundant and kind of odd when you read it because the readers are reading an English translation despite knowing that it's a Japanese game. You should also read this [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=User_talk:Amoirsp#About_the_language_reversal About the Language Reversal]. Anyway, you'll see what I mean once you finish Kotomi's route... though I'm sure you'll finish reading Kotomi's route first before I finish translating her route ^_^; --[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]] 1:30PM (+8:00)

User talk:Mashu

2007-05-21T09:04:58Z

Mashu:

== Tsukkomi ==

Tsukkomi is best interpreted as a jab at something. It's not as complicated as I've seen some comments about it. I'm sure you guys already know what it is, but I'll just explain just in case. It's basically where one butts in and makes corrections to someone's stupid mistake or statement.

Example: Kotomi tells Tomoya that it's okay for students of this school to come to the library freely. He thinks:
今は閉室時間だろとか、そもそも今日は学校休みだろとか、ツッコミたいことは山ほどあったが、問題はそこじゃない。
Wouldn't you think that:
Mountains of corrections such as 'isn't it supposed to be closed' and 'school is not even active today' came to mind, but that wasn't the problem.

Sounds a lot better than:
There are mountains of tsukkomi I could do such as 'isn't it supposed to be closed' and 'school is not even active today' but that wasn't the problem.

Discuss!

== Un and Uun. ==

Well, un and uun is obviously yes and no, though you'll also notice this is Kotomi's given behavioural pattern. As you notice, she is denoted as very childish, since despite having the characteristic of being a number one student, she is absolutely poor in socialising. Thus, un and uun were used to denote this specific pattern that does not exist in any other character. Since Kotomi's route is independent given that she does not exist in any other route, using an abnormal amount of yes and no had certain redundancy. It also made itself different than hai and iye (er I don't know the roomanji for the other no), because that version of yes and no exists in the other girl characters within the same route, yet they are so much different.

You'll also notice she says are and arere a lot. Surely it is huh but under context it's a very obvious implication. Again, child-like behaviour emphasized. Due to the oddity of repetition, it causes using this entirely in English seem the more awkward, especially when many notations are purely Japanese such as a certain Japanese idioms, which we probably wouldn't know immediately, as well as other things. Also are would be huh, but so would arere, as the second huh wouldn't denote the extra confusion or the denoted repetition.

In this sense un and uun can seem more like sounds of agreement. Like mmhmm and mmm mmm/nn nn (... yes and no). Like, it's supposed to be a notation of agreement or understanding, but not a strict yes, since that would be hai, or something like that. Well, that's just what I think. Same thing with no, it seems more like the version that you would do while shaking your head. You're saying no, but you're saying "nn nn" or in Japanese, "uun", though we wouldn't put mmhmm or nn nn or however you spell those.

Of course that doesn't mean un and uun are better than yes and no. Just wanted to briefly state why it was left like that, as you'll notice if you went through all the seens, all of them are un and uun for this specification that denotes Kotomi's independent personality that has no similarities to any characters, thus it was used as a distinguishing pattern. Though again, it is a notation of the childish behaviour, thus you see certain excessive repetition. You also already see how communication itself is already two different pages.

Though in all honesty it was simply used as personal flavouring, which was propelled by how independent the route is. You'll notice nearly immediately that when playing the game, you cannot have Kotomi routes coexist with any other routes, aside from the first day you meet her through skipping class.

Yes and no is fine, though there will be a ridiculously high amount of it. It would be English accurate, but by text alone it is less obvious of the mood or tone that one is a childish yes and the other a normal yes. So yes and no weren't used as distinguishing factours.

I repeated myself too much. Kotomi's route has more variability and less limitations, so it's easier to interchange. Notice how the language reversal was already a problem, though un and uun was merely preference. Yes and no is still correct. Of course there were also problems with not recognising lines from famous books or scientific names. Then you also have the SFX of a nod, then Tomoya saying she nodded, same goes with stopping, spinning, and whatever other sound effects occur in this route given the tsukkomi implications as well as Kotomi's relative cluenessness and odd behaviour. Again, that was why un and uun was used, to make the responses contain the oddity yet under context being obvious that there's more like sounds of agreement rather than a proper yes and no despite the fact that she is polite, she is still childish. So yeah, implicative notation is how I see it. I'm not going to change anything though.

--[[User:Amoirsp|Amoirsp]]
: Pros & Cons of maintaining the '''Un''' & '''Uun''' 
:
:'''Pros:''' As for me who knows how '''un''' and '''uun''' works, maintaining it has a good deal of reflecting a bit of Kotomi's timid personality which is one of the aspect that differentiate her to the other girls. It also eliminates the redundancy of too much ''yes'', ''okay'', ''no'', ''not really'' and it fits how the word and voice is single syllable. And it also maintains her universal reply (all purpose agreement and disagreement with something.) and gives the reader an imagination that she might be shaking her head for ''uun'' and nodding once for ''un''. It's almost the same as maintaining the way Fuuko says her name in most of her sentences :3
:'''Cons:''' One of the cons is I'm not sure if most people would be able to understand how '''un''' and '''uun'''... 
:
:But anyway, I guess I'm a little bit in favor of maintaining it since I (personally) have no problem with it.
:--[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]]

:It really doesn't matter to me how it's left, and I already know why it was left as un and uun. It'll just have to be real clear what un and uun means to the players. I was just more concerned about how the players will feel about un and uun.
:
:My real concern is the reversing of the languages. I notice that some places where she's reading something in English, it was translated as her reading in Japanese, or a phrase in English is switched into a phrase in Japanese. I think this would just make things even more confusing, since the setting is already in Japan. Since the players are already aware that everybody in the game is Japanese, and that the game itself is Japanese, I really don't think any language should be reversed.
:--[[User:Mashu|Mashu]] 21:56, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
::Oh about the language reversal on her route? The problem is the climax of her route. I really believe that it requires to reverse that part there because there's a purpose why that line is in English... and I don't think reversing that alone would be good with the flow of the translation. Take for example the scissor part with Kotomi in the bookshop. She said scissors in her first explanation but in the second explanation, she said, "In English it's scissor..." which is kind of redundant that's why I reversed it as "In Japanese..." that part also exist with Yukine's route where Sunohara said, "Really" in English then Tomoya commented on it with "More English words came out." It will look redundant and kind of odd when you read it because the readers are reading an English translation despite knowing that it's a Japanese game. You should also read this [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=User_talk:Amoirsp#About_the_language_reversal About the Language Reversal]. Anyway, you'll see what I mean once you finish Kotomi's route... though I'm sure you'll finish reading Kotomi's route first before I finish translating her route ^_^; --[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]] 1:30PM (+8:00)

User talk:Mashu

2007-05-20T04:56:31Z

Mashu:

== Un and Uun. ==

Well, un and uun is obviously yes and no, though you'll also notice this is Kotomi's given behavioural pattern. As you notice, she is denoted as very childish, since despite having the characteristic of being a number one student, she is absolutely poor in socialising. Thus, un and uun were used to denote this specific pattern that does not exist in any other character. Since Kotomi's route is independent given that she does not exist in any other route, using an abnormal amount of yes and no had certain redundancy. It also made itself different than hai and iye (er I don't know the roomanji for the other no), because that version of yes and no exists in the other girl characters within the same route, yet they are so much different.

You'll also notice she says are and arere a lot. Surely it is huh but under context it's a very obvious implication. Again, child-like behaviour emphasized. Due to the oddity of repetition, it causes using this entirely in English seem the more awkward, especially when many notations are purely Japanese such as a certain Japanese idioms, which we probably wouldn't know immediately, as well as other things. Also are would be huh, but so would arere, as the second huh wouldn't denote the extra confusion or the denoted repetition.

In this sense un and uun can seem more like sounds of agreement. Like mmhmm and mmm mmm/nn nn (... yes and no). Like, it's supposed to be a notation of agreement or understanding, but not a strict yes, since that would be hai, or something like that. Well, that's just what I think. Same thing with no, it seems more like the version that you would do while shaking your head. You're saying no, but you're saying "nn nn" or in Japanese, "uun", though we wouldn't put mmhmm or nn nn or however you spell those.

Of course that doesn't mean un and uun are better than yes and no. Just wanted to briefly state why it was left like that, as you'll notice if you went through all the seens, all of them are un and uun for this specification that denotes Kotomi's independent personality that has no similarities to any characters, thus it was used as a distinguishing pattern. Though again, it is a notation of the childish behaviour, thus you see certain excessive repetition. You also already see how communication itself is already two different pages.

Though in all honesty it was simply used as personal flavouring, which was propelled by how independent the route is. You'll notice nearly immediately that when playing the game, you cannot have Kotomi routes coexist with any other routes, aside from the first day you meet her through skipping class.

Yes and no is fine, though there will be a ridiculously high amount of it. It would be English accurate, but by text alone it is less obvious of the mood or tone that one is a childish yes and the other a normal yes. So yes and no weren't used as distinguishing factours.

I repeated myself too much. Kotomi's route has more variability and less limitations, so it's easier to interchange. Notice how the language reversal was already a problem, though un and uun was merely preference. Yes and no is still correct. Of course there were also problems with not recognising lines from famous books or scientific names. Then you also have the SFX of a nod, then Tomoya saying she nodded, same goes with stopping, spinning, and whatever other sound effects occur in this route given the tsukkomi implications as well as Kotomi's relative cluenessness and odd behaviour. Again, that was why un and uun was used, to make the responses contain the oddity yet under context being obvious that there's more like sounds of agreement rather than a proper yes and no despite the fact that she is polite, she is still childish. So yeah, implicative notation is how I see it. I'm not going to change anything though.

--[[User:Amoirsp|Amoirsp]]
: Pros & Cons of maintaining the '''Un''' & '''Uun''' 
:
:'''Pros:''' As for me who knows how '''un''' and '''uun''' works, maintaining it has a good deal of reflecting a bit of Kotomi's timid personality which is one of the aspect that differentiate her to the other girls. It also eliminates the redundancy of too much ''yes'', ''okay'', ''no'', ''not really'' and it fits how the word and voice is single syllable. And it also maintains her universal reply (all purpose agreement and disagreement with something.) and gives the reader an imagination that she might be shaking her head for ''uun'' and nodding once for ''un''. It's almost the same as maintaining the way Fuuko says her name in most of her sentences :3
:'''Cons:''' One of the cons is I'm not sure if most people would be able to understand how '''un''' and '''uun'''... 
:
:But anyway, I guess I'm a little bit in favor of maintaining it since I (personally) have no problem with it.
:--[[User:Dgreater1|DGreater1]]

:It really doesn't matter to me how it's left, and I already know why it was left as un and uun. It'll just have to be real clear what un and uun means to the players. I was just more concerned about how the players will feel about un and uun.
:
:My real concern is the reversing of the languages. I notice that some places where she's reading something in English, it was translated as her reading in Japanese, or a phrase in English is switched into a phrase in Japanese. I think this would just make things even more confusing, since the setting is already in Japan. Since the players are already aware that everybody in the game is Japanese, and that the game itself is Japanese, I really don't think any language should be reversed.
:--[[User:Mashu|Mashu]] 21:56, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

User:Mashu

2007-05-18T09:24:47Z

Mashu:

== Information ==

*Nickname: Mashu
*IRC Name: Mashu
*Name: Mathew
*Age: 20
*Hobbies: Graphic design, anime, manga, video games.

== Project ==

*Currently helping on Clannad Visual Novel, working from SEEN0414 to SEEN0429, cleaning up and retranslating.
*Currently playing through Clannad for the first time, taking the Kotomi route.

== Progress ==
*Currently playing the game to get a better understanding of how to translate.
*Currently making changes to SEENs as they are discovered while playing the game and reading the SEENs.
*SEEN0414 - 52%
*SEEN6416 - 100%

User:Mashu

2007-05-16T01:30:32Z

Mashu: /* Progress */

User:Mashu

2007-05-13T21:59:44Z

Mashu: /* Project */

User:Mashu

2007-05-13T21:59:25Z

Mashu:

== Information ==

*Nickname: Mashu
*IRC Name: Mashu
*Name: Mathew
*Age: 20
*Hobbies: Graphic design, anime, manga, video games.

== Project ==

Currently helping on Clannad Visual Novel, working from SEEN0414 to SEEN0429, cleaning up and retranslating.
Also reading through Nagisa scenarios SEEN6416-??

== Progress ==

SEEN0414 - 52%
SEEN6416 - 100%

User:Mashu

2007-05-11T08:45:34Z

Mashu: New page: == Information == *Nickname: Mashu *IRC Name: Mashu *Name: Mathew *Age: 20 *Hobbies: Graphic design, anime, manga, video games. == Project == Currently helping on Clannad Visual Novel, ...