Baka-Tsuki - User contributions [en]

Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-25T10:06:25Z

Ryukaiser: /* Translation */ comform -> conform

This is just a story that I picked up a while ago to practice my English writing skills.
If you want to correct any grammatical/spelling mistakes feel free to do so.

If you are going to post a portion or the whole translation else where please contact me.

- [[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]]

Please read the [[Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi|Discussion]] for news/opinions.

== Update ==

Older updates can be found [[Update|here]].

*April 22, 2006
** Volume 1, Chapter 3 complete
** Chapter 4 page opened, illustration uploaded
** '''New page created for creating the [[Format_guideline|Unified Format Guideline]], please use the [[Talk:Format_guideline|talk page]] there to discuss the projects general style.
** Moved all related discussion to format guideline talk page.'''
** Volume 1, Chapter 4 complete
** Fixed illustrations for chapters 3 and 4; chapter 3 should have two illustrations, chapter 4 should have one.

*April 23, 2006
**''' Discussion of Solutions to prevent "Chapters with multiple Translators Conflicting" in [[Format_guideline|Unified Format Guideline]] talk page.'''

*April 24, 2006
**Anonymous Editing has been available.
**All constructive contribution are welcomed!
'''**All Anonymous Contributors are advised to read the [[Format_guideline|Unified Format Guideline]] before contributing, to avoid any misunderstanding.'''
**If you plan to contribute more then once we ask that you Register, which is free!
**Once again we would like to thank you for all your help to advance Suzumiya Haruhi Series to the English world! m(_ _)m

== Translators ==

*[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]]
*[[User:Kinny Riddle|Kinny Riddle]]
*[[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]] (part-time)
*[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] (Special mention here, for large Image Contribution)

Note: Please [[User_talk:Thelastguardian|contact me]] if you are planning to contribute a significant amount of script.
- [[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]]

'''Translators are asked to [[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Registration Page|register]] which chapters they're working on''' (see [[Format_guideline#Translators|the Guideline page]] for usage rules).

== Editors ==

Users mentioned here have been recognised for their large & regular Editorial Contribution, which this project would like to thank, acknowledge & hope that they will continue to contribute in the future.

==== Dedicated Editors ====

*[[User:Psieye|Psieye]]
*[[User:Adelina|Adelina]]
*[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]]
*[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]]

==== New Editors Watchlist ====

Editors whose contributions are worth mentioning.

== Translation ==

'''Every Chapter (after editing) must conform to the agreed points highlighted in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline Unified Format Guideline]'''

Some of these chapters are translations of the Chinese edition of the novels, which are known to have some minor mistakes compared to the original Japanese text. If you have access to the originals and you spot an error, '''please feel free to make the corrections yourself''' - this is a Wiki which means it's meant for anyone to fix things (and if you screw up, we can revert back your changes if all deem necessary). We can see the corrections you make, so just go ahead instead of hiding or waiting for permission. --[[User:Psieye|Psieye]]

Just to add something else. I have changed the permission setting for the Wiki. '''You don't have to have an account to edit a page.''' Please do note that if you abuse this feature, I will personally hunt you down :) . --[[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]]

*The ''Suzumiya Haruhi'' series, by [[Tanigawa Nagaru]]
**Volume 1 - ''The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第一巻: 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Illustrations|Color Illustrations]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Prologue|Prologue]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter1|Chapter 1]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter2|Chapter 2]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter3|Chapter 3]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter4|Chapter 4]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter5|Chapter 5 (2/3 completed)]]
***Chapter 6
***Chapter 7
***Epilogue
***Author's notes

== Series Overview ==
* Volume 1 - ''The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第一巻: 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱
* Volume 2 - ''The Sighs of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第二巻: 涼宮ハルヒの溜息
* Volume 3 - ''The Boredom of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第三巻: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
* Volume 4 - ''The Vanishing of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第四巻: 涼宮ハルヒの消失
* Volume 5 - ''The Delusions of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第五巻: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走
* Volume 6 - ''The Trembling of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第六巻: 涼宮ハルヒの動揺
* Volume 7 - ''The Intrigues of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第七巻: 涼宮ハルヒの陰謀
* Volume 8 - ''The Indignation of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第八巻: 涼宮ハルヒの憤慨

User talk:Thelastguardian

2006-04-24T06:11:21Z

Ryukaiser: /* Use the "Current Event" page */

Hey just wanted to thank you for translating parts of this novel. After watching the first two episodes of the anime its nice to be able to read the parts of the original work and see what was changed. Its also easier to pick up hints in the novel than it is in the anime :)

== Nice translation. Mind if I proofread it? ==

While reading, I couldn't help but notice grammar and spelling errors. I've gone through Chapter 1 and fixed what blatant grammatical and spelling errors I could find as I read. Kyon's dialogue is in parenthesis during the first parts of the chapter but not in the later parts. I'm assuming this is present in the Japanese translation so I'll leave Kyon's speech alone in the later chapters. I've resisted changing any character's dialogue and only switched around words where the meaning was rough or unclear. I'll leave futher polishing up to you. [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:57, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

I'll add my thanks to '''Baltakatei''''s, and offer my help with proofreading/translation. See my user page for further introduction to me. --[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:03, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

== Nice translation. Mind if I grab a chapter? ==

I'm fiddling with translation of chapter 5, and I expect to be contributing a chunk of translated material later today, if this is all right with you. --[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 08:01, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== Use the "Current Event" page ==

Hey lastguardian! mind if we use the current event page for discussion between editors & translators for the guidelines for standardlising the project?

It'll easy to have everything under one page, then to have it on the main page discussion tab page or in the individual chapters talk pages.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 07:37, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

All righty... now we have several different places for discussion of the '''same''' part of the project. With text duplicated. That means that when an update is made, and discussion or commentary is needed, the text needs to be placed in two or more locations. This '''DOES NOT WORK'''.

I '''strongly suggest''' that all discussion on issues regarding individual chapters be kept to the talk pages for the chapters, and only central issues like Kyon's tenses and the like be discussed on the main page.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 02:46, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

::I was just thinking about that as I checked the pages yesterday. I tried to sort through them in my mind, and I pretty much have an outline. I was going to do it today, but I guess you beat me to it.

::--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 12:28, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

This is something I would agree with - it just makes more sense, to me, to discuss individual chapters on that chapter's talk page, and discussing more global things on the current events page.

Maybe, instead of duplicating all of the discussion to the current events page, we should just put a link to each chapter's discussion page somewhere on the current events page. Something like [[Talk:Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter1|Volume 1, Chapter 1 Discussion]], possibly? Just put one for each chapter at the top of the page, I guess. Above the table of content box.

--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:07, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

::Which is why I post "Awkward Phases" only in Discussion page. Anyway that is part of my plan that I was planning to discuss today.

::--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 12:28, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

I agree with Ryukaiser, we should just link to the discussions for each chapter, to avoid fiddling with duplicated text.

Which sort of ties in with the question of translation notes. Have a look at how I've arranged the discussion page for chapter 5. There's a complete section for translation notes, which is to say notes that are ''directly'' related to issues in that chapter. I've given each of them a subheader in the section for translation notes, in the order in which they occur in the text. I don't mention Kyon's tenses or stuff like that -- that's for a central debate on the main discussion page.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 05:50, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

I copied all the discussion in the "Awkward phrases" section that wasn't already there over to the Chapter 1 discussion page, and linked it in the format guideline discussion page. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 23:11, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

== FoN move to Dedicated Editor ==

Hello Captain :D

I've just read that noticed on the registration page about FoN's change of heart.

If this is the first time you heard of it, that's good, if not, well i hope you got this before you changed anything.

All i ask is that you hold off a little before you do it, i just wish to talk to him about this. I believe it will serious hamper the project if we lose one of our only two translators.

oh ok, i meant three :rolleyes:, but one of our [i]Active[/i] ones :D

let me talk to him, and see if i can persude him to not to change. if i can't, so be it. but at leased I have to try.

Regards your Aide De Camp.

(‘-’)\

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 18:50, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Format guideline

2006-04-24T06:08:35Z

Ryukaiser: Linking to Chapter 1 discussion page

Hello, so lets kick this up, what things should we address first?

Which things should be established first?

please use the "add comment" icon above.
Please scroll down for current Discussion.
Pervious Discussion on related format guidelinetopics have been copied here for reference.

==Volume 01, Chapter 01 Discussion==
For discussion of issues solely related to Chapter 1, please see [[Talk:Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter1|the discussion page for Chapter 1]].

==== Suzumiya Haruhi's language ====
This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass."
-- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style.
[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。
Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--[[User:Cruzz|Cruzz]] 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 02 Discussion ==

==== The Fall of Hyperion ====
About this passage:

''All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.''

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた
とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に
もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

''Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.''

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be ''The Fall of Hyperion'' by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his ''to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru''.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 04 Discussion ==

==== Once it's all over, a post-mortem will be held to review and prepare for further developments. ====

Post-mortem? That sort of suggests a death, although I know what is trying to be said, but it might give the wrong meaning to other people. I wonder if there is another word we could substitute this with? Would anyone like to give a suggestion? --[[User:Adelina|Adelina]] 07:44, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

In the military, they use the term "After Action Report" (abbr. AAR). --[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 10:10, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Debriefing? --[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 23:03, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

Review. --[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 02:22, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Review is already said in the sentence, but we could change that. Out of which do you think Haruhi would be the most likely to say? --[[User:Adelina|Adelina]] 05:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

To be honest, I think "debriefing" fits in very well in the sentence. It also suits the quasi-militaristic secret superspy-agent-hero-fantasy world that the SOS Brigade has its roots in. "Once it's all over, a debriefing will be held to review and prepare for further developments." See? It looks good. Kudos to '''velocity7''' for ''le mot juste''.--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 05:54, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 05 Discussion ==

For this material, please see [[Talk:Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter5|the discussion page for Chapter 5]].

== Current Discussion - New Points Discussed Here ==

== Dialogue syntax issues ==

As you can tell from the first chapter, Kyon represses a significant amount of his thoughts during conversations. Most of these thoughts take the form of a silent aside that the other characters are not aware of. However, there are times when Kyon's inner dialogues are leaked out into the open but the parenthesis is left out. For example, in Chapter 1:

''After class, Taniguchi, with his mystified face, tried to corner me. Taniguchi, you look like a total moron with that expression of yours!

"Be quiet! I don't care what you say. Anyway, just what magic did you cast?"''

From what thelastguardian tells me, the lack of parenthesis is the author's style. The reason I bring this up is because a casual reader might be confused in certain places when deciding whether Kyon speaks or not. I believe the author's style should be reverted with no parentehsis added. What is your opinion?

Another issue is how place the "Haruhi said" and other such lines that directly reference to a character's line. In the current format, such lines are separated by a space. I'm of the opinion these spaces should be closed and the short commentary following a line should be closed. Already, this has been taken care of by others and myself in a few instances.

''"Which is why I'm going to obtain one now," Haruhi said, like a hunter looking for its prey.''

But before I start linking dialogue to commentary, what do you think? --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:32, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:Agreed on closing some of the linebreaks for dialogue syntax. Breaking a new line all over the place probably looks right with Japanese text, but English novels are written with "Haruhi said" descriptions and following commentaries on the same line as the dialogue (as well as further dialogue by the same person). Then again, Kyon's inner voice commentaries and asides I'd count as 'dialogue' and therefore require a change in line. For example, from Ch 2:

:''"I see... I understand."''
:''What did you understand?''
:''"I'll quit the Calligraphy Club, and join your club..." Her voice is so full of sadness. "But, I don't know what the Literature Club does." ''

:Oh and just to clarify, I don't think we need to add any 'somebody said,' descriptions if they're not already there - as was discussed it is pretty easy to guess who's speaking what line even if we don't get "verbalised accents" (such as trademark deviations from Standard Japanese and -yo, -desu endings).
:--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 03:48, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

::Though on second thought, ''"her voice is so full of sadness"'' and many other such descriptions feel like 'dialogue'/'monologue commentary' since this is Kyon First Perspective afterall. Mmm... maybe making a finer distinction like this would just cause more trouble. Ok, I guess only doing the no-linebreak thing with "lines that directly reference a character's line" cases would be sensible, as Baltakatei originally suggested.
::--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 10:42, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

== Kyon's Narration Tense ==

Kyon's Narration Tense is something we should quickly agree on I think. I point to the small conversation that started on this
[[Talk:Format_guideline#It_is_as_if_to_her.2C_the_guys_are_pumpkins_or_potato_sacks.2C_and_she_couldn.27t_care_less. | in Ch 1's discussions]] regarding how I think we ought to first agree on what 'the present' is for Kyon's Narration.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 18:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

* Ahh you mean this one?

'''Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

'''

personally I agree, i mean Kyon speak for the present, he doesn't speak with the knowledge of the future of past.

He's the vocal of the audience.

I guess with have to check with an a translator to know if he ever does start to speak with hindsight/foresight.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:07, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

There are certainly times when he speaks about the future, for example, from Chapter 1: "As I said, at first I felt very irritated, but later on I learned that all those people graduated from East Junior High." --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 20:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:Yes but that's an example from chapter 1, which I've already suggested as being a "Let me tell you how I got to where I am in this newly formed, I-have-no-idea SOS-dan" backstory session. So Chapter 1 should also be in past tense I think. Chapter 2 onwards (perhaps right from the start of it, thus setting 'the present' to just after Haruhi's Inspiration for a club) should be present tense narration.

:Of course, if it's explicitly clear he suddenly adds in a comment from future hindsight, then we do that in past tense. But I think it's pretty clear when those happen - incidentally do they happen much beyond chapter 1?
:--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 03:55, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

Ah, well there you go.
it gets more complicated already.
i'll leave it up to you lot ^^;

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 20:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== anything to put on the front page? ==

just wondering if you lot got any guides you wanna put up yet?

it looks funny with those bits at the bottom.

unless this is not necessary, then i'll remove it. it's kinda bugging me now :/

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 06:05, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm... it seems people are continuing to deal with the chapter-specific stuff in each chapter's Talk page so the chapter-specific discussions that were cloned above can just be moved back I guess. Regarding overall issues, well discussion seems to have stopped. For now, why not put up the points made in the Dialogue Syntax section? i.e.
1) no parenthesis for when Kyon's "inner dialgue leaks out"
2) the "no-line break for lines that directly reference a character's line"

I'd like to also put up the point of setting Kyon's narration tense with the 'Kyon is telling the story in the present from Vol 1 Ch 2 onwards, and before that he was giving backstory' rule of thumb. However, the lack of discussion on this point means we can't really put it up yet - there are valid alternate rules of thumb (e.g. most things after prologue/backstory-Ch-1 in immediate past tense) and we need to agree on one (even if that is as simple as 'whatever the original text uses').

Perhaps getting clearing the redundat chapter-specific discussions above would highlight how this has yet to be discussed?

--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:59, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

ok. well i'll just put those two points up for now.

It'll look better with something to complain about then nothing to look at. like now.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 09:31, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Regarding the "Narration Tenses" issue: to be honest, so long as we agree to stick to a consistent Tense processing standard, I'm not really bothered with what we decide on - I tend to naturally focus more on where the English doesn't seem to flow right and what tense is being used usually doesn't register as a problem to me. So, if no further discussion happens on this, shall we just say "stick with whatever tenses the original text uses" for preservation purposes and be done with this stagnant subject? I think the translators are naturally preserving the tenses from the original text so asking them to stick with that policy seems good enough to me.

--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 09:35, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

== Chapters with multiple Translators Conflicting ==

I think it's best we start discussing a solution to this, best to nip it in the buds, as this has potential to happen again.

One idea I have in the future to have a translator "declare" which chapters they will commence work actively, one only. You cannot, "reserve" a chapter or do one chapter partly only to return to complete another one. Or alternativelr you could all agree together which should do which one, and we will note it down somewhere so that everyone sticks to it.

It will be easier for Editors to standardlize the entire chapter, then to have more then one translator working, as experienced in chapter 05 ([http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Talk:Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter5#Translation_Issues|Chapter Chapter 05 Translation Issue]).

But then this will reduce the efficency, as most translators work faster then others, and this could result in random chapters being completed before others. at this moment i have't thought of a solution.
but from the top of my head, we could split the chapters perhaps? and have fall back agreements,meaning that if a chapter is not completyed for whatever reason, the assigned translator for that chapter will know that another agreed translator will take over.
food for thought.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 10:08, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

For small groups of people, it's best to keep things simple. Your suggested system may be necessary if we had 6+ active translators or so, but until then we can make do with a much simpler system:

Create a page where translators announce the status of their work - what chapter and roughly how much of it they've translated. I'd imagine it would be most natural to work on one chapter at a time, but in case it's not... well have the translators discuss such points between themselves? Such discussion is easy in a small group like this provided necessary information (the status page) is readily available.

--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 11:11, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

mmm...I suppose so.

But at this moment , there seems to be an agreement that Kinny will do Volume 01.

As for the others volumes beyond that, well that is open to debate.

Kinny and Thelastguardian favours a volume to volume approach, while i'am aware of the favouable arguments for it, i still do not believe it will ultilize the translators efficently.

however i do like your idea, it is best to show all transparency,
I think it's best to inform everyone and discuss this matter.

Disptes fears that more then one translator operating one volume will yield lower quality for faster times.

There is a happy medium that i believe we can reach, too many translators perhaps but surely having a few quality translators on one volume with editors to suppport them will more then compensate for the fears of "inconsistent style" after all, isn't this the point of this page?

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 11:20, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

== Standard English Words? i.e. "Consortium" ==

Just read the added contribution from kinny on Chapter 05.

noticed you used the word, "Consortium"

sounds strange, i've heard other alternatives such as The "Organisation".

"Consortium" seems to imply a planet wide group yet Itsuki mentioned it only consists of 10 known members. when put with that even "Organisation" seems a bit grand.

perhaps "brotherhood" sounds better?

Either way i think its best we agree what words we should use, and also other important ones.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 10:21, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

I vote for "Instrumentality" -- see discussion page for Chapter 5.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 13:57, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

A couple of other standardising suggestions:

1) "Literature Club" not "Literacy Club"

2) "Class 1-5" not "Fifth Class" etc

If no other discussion is generated on these two points after 2 days, I'll put them on the Format page

--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 16:04, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

I completely endorse [[User:Psieye|Psieye]]'s two points. These seem like simple and obvious standard translations.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 16:13, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

2006-04-24T06:05:45Z

Ryukaiser: Consolidating chapter 1's discussion

== Suzumiya Haruhi's language ==
This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass."
-- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style.
[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。
Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--[[User:Cruzz|Cruzz]] 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

No excuse here. I was being radical. Personally I feel that this translation corresponds closest to the actual undertone of the phase.

I wanted to go for the really literal route- what an English speaker may say in that situation.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 14:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

== Vague/Awkward sounding phrases ==
As I work on fixing up the various grammar, I keep coming across some phrases that sound odd, but which I am unsure what to do with. I hesitate to change them around too much on my own, so I'll list whatever ones I find here for discussion. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== "Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all." ====
On one of SH's official wallpapers, the line is translated as the following in the ever so amusing Engrish style- ''man of doesn't have the interest. Please come to me If you are Alien, TimeTraveler, Another world person, ESP. That's it...'' --[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 14:46, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The fansub for the anime translates the equivalent line to something quite similar, so it seems pretty accurate, to me. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 16:53, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

==== She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch ====
I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

: Is the "had" really necessary in "had assumed"? Why not just "so I assumed she went to the cafeteria..."? It's simpler and carries the same message. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:06, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

::Well, to me, since the story is narrated in past tense, just "I assumed" could cause some confusion, as it kind of implies he did so throughout the story, while "had assumed" says he did so at that time. The latter seems to be more accurate, to me. Others may disagree, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 23:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:::I see what you mean. The "had" is a good choice. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:34, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday. ====
This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I had assumed that as well, but now that Ryukaiser mentions it, I think it should go to with the "would have looked like" thing. I guess we need to see the original translation to really tell?
--[[User:Adelina|Adelina]] 10:44, 21 April 2006 (CST)

:I agree with using the present tense in Kyon's musings about the hair styles. I think the "would have looked like" phrase works well without having the original Japanese on hand. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:12, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less. ====
The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as ''"It's as if to her, guys are..."'' Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What is that girl trying to pull? ====
Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

: Heh "unfathomable"... IMHO, I believe the phrase is fine as it is. The reader doesn't know what Haruhi was doing so Kyon is politely expressing his wonder at the time without giving any spoilers. Also, since large illustrations are used to accompany each page, I believe that the novel tries to involve the reader as much as possible. When I read the passage in question, I imagined seeing an illustration of Haruhi grinning mischeviously from Kyon's point of view. Maybe such thoughts stem from my exposure to the animated version of the novel. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:46, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly. ====
This phrase sorta confuses me. All what mess? Perpetrator of what? How does "May arrives quietly" relate to the rest of the sentence? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, I don't know. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it to mean that there were a great many rumours, uproars, disturbances etc which could all be somehow traced back to Haruhi. "May arrives" I interpret as 'in the midst of this chaos, May arrived.' Yeah, I guess this phrase does need to be re-written for greater clarity.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:Yeah, I'll bug a translator and get this clarified. :) --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:00, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

'''[[User:Freak Of Nature|I (FON)]] was the translator that was bugged, and this is copied from my [[User_talk:Freak_Of_Nature|talk page]]:'''

:Since you apparently have access to the original Japanese novel here's a question. In Chapter 1 Kyon says:
:''In the middle of all this mess there was always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrived quietly.''
:In this passage, Kyon implies that all disturbances at the school are related to Haruhi's antics. In contrast, May is said to arrive without significant events occuring. Does the original Japanese contain this conflict? -- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:59, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

::Glad to assist. The original passage (end of page 25 in the novel) is

::そんなこんなをしながら～～もっとも、そんなこんなをしていたのはハルヒだけだったが～～五月がやってくる。

::'''sonnakonna o shinagara -- mottomo, sonnakonna shite ita no wa Haruhi dakedatta ga -- gogatsu yatte kuru.'''

::Or in other words:

::"As this and that was happening -- although, it was always Haruhi doing this and that, however -- May arrived."

::That's the literal translation, and I think the translation you cited above is perhaps a bit too free.

::--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 02:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

After some thought, I've reached the conclusion that the sentence should be:

"As this and that is happening -- although it was always Haruhi doing this and that, however -- May arrives."

This preserves Kyon's weird tenses throughout the sentence -- notice how the primary sentence is in present tense, whereas the secondary clause is in past tense. This is really most exasperating for a translator.

I've made the change in the text to this sentence.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 02:39, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever! ====
Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?"
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:I'm amused at the "What the hell does Earth want?!" It's not a phrase you hear often or at all. It also doesn't sound like something a translator can make up. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:05, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

It's a pretty accurate translation of the original text, which is:

地球はいったい何がやりたいんだろう。黄熱病にでもかかってるんじゃないか。

''chikyuu wa ittai nani ga yaritain darou. ounetsubyou ni demo kakatterun ja nai ka.''

I take it to mean that Kyon is anthropomorphizing the Earth, as an entity that is actively out to get him, by deliberately placing weather and natural obstacles in his path.

As for the Yellow Fever thing? Well, either he means "jaundice" (although that would be 黄疸 ''oudan''), or we can chalk it down to the rather unscientific (superstitious, even) Japanese attitude to disease and health issues. Yellow Fever is a contagious disease that is spread to humans by infected mosquitos in tropical regions, but in Japan there is still an almost 19th century-ish belief that contagious diseases can arise from exertion or exhaustion. It's amusing, really -- I'm a medical historian, and I see this sort of thing all the time, in European texts from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 03:17, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

I'm sure that readers will be just as confused as we editors were with this, but now we have an explanation it's much clearer. I think we should have a page for translator's notes so that the readers and editors won't be so confused.
--[[User:Adelina|Adelina]] 07:22, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

:Agreed. Somewhere to explain references that can be lost across the cultures is necessary - we're translating across cultures as well as languages afterall.
:--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 09:37, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

==== He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest. ====
I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:"across" is a good word to use. I concur. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:07, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

The passage in question (on page 26 of the novel) is:

「よ、キョン」

後ろから肩を叩かれた。谷口だった。

ブレザーをだらしなく肩に引っかけ、ネクタイをよれよれに結んだニヤケ面で、

「ゴールデンウィークはどっか行ったか？」

__

"Hey, Kyon."

From behind, somebody clapped me on the shoulder. It was Taniguchi.

His blazer hung slovenly on his shoulders, his necktie was wrinkled and skewed to one side.

"Where did you go for Golden Week?"

__

I've taken the liberty of making this correction in the text.
--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 15:38, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world. ====
I don't like the "is are" part of this sentence. I mean, I understand why it is there, but it looks awkward. The best idea I have is to put a comma after the phrase "or how amazing or cute someone's pet is," but it still looks awkward to me. And that's where I'll end my proofreading of chapter 1 for now. I'll pick it back up sometime later. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Oh, then let's break it up into two sentences *makes that minor edit too*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

:Good call. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:12, 22 April 2006 (PDT)

==== My grandma was the one who first called me that. ====

『最初に言い出だしたのは叔母の一人だったように記憶している。』

My mistake. I used the Chinese edition to translate and it was a mistake. The original Japanese version says "one of my aunts". I checked the Japanese volume to make sure it says aunts.

Found on MegaTokyo. Strangely enough no one tried to correct the mistake. I really hope people just correct it- if you notice the mistake, correct it.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 02:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

User talk:Thelastguardian

2006-04-23T12:07:30Z

Ryukaiser: /* Use the "Current Event" page */

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

2006-04-22T23:53:43Z

Ryukaiser: /* "Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all." */ woops forgot to sign.

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

2006-04-22T23:53:25Z

Ryukaiser: /* "Normal humans don't interest me. If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all." */

Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-22T07:12:56Z

Ryukaiser: /* Update */ fixing link

This is just a story that I picked up a while ago to practice my English writing skills.
This is just for fun; If you want to correct any grammatical/spelling mistakes feel free to do so.

If you are going to post a portion or the whole translation else where please contact me.

- thelastguardian

Please read the [[Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi|Discussion]] for news/opinions.

== Update ==

*November 11, 2005
** Start of project

*December 24, 2005
** Volume 1, Prologue complete

*April 15, 2006
** Moved everything to MediaWiki
** Volume 1, Chapter 1 complete

*April 17, 2006
** Volume 1, Chapter 2 complete

*April 18, 2006
** Illustrations added for Volume 1 Chapter 1 and 2

*April 21, 2006
** Color Illustration section added, illustrations for chapters 1-3 updated
**'''Discussion of condition of standardlized text format, request all Major Editors & Contributors to take part in this debate. Click [[Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi|Discussion]] tab.'''

*April 22, 2006
** Volume 1, Chapter 3 complete
** Chapter 4 page opened, illustration uploaded
** '''New page created for creating [[Format_guideline|Unified Format Guideline]], please use the talk page there to discuss the projects general style.

Lastguardian will added it to Navigation bar soon, in the mean time here is the link:

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline

** moved all related discussion to format guideline talk page.'''

** Volume 1, Chapter 4 complete

== Translators ==

*[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]]
*[[User:Kinny Riddle|Kinny Riddle]]
*[[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]] (part-time)
*[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] (Special mention here, for large Image Contribution)

Note: Please [[User_talk:Thelastguardian|contact me]] if you are planning to contribute a significant amount of script.
- [[User:thelastguardian|thelastguardian]]

== Editors ==

Users mentioned here have been recognised for their large Editorial Contribution, which this project would like to thank, acknowledge & hope that they will continue to contribute in the future.

*[[User:Psieye|Psieye]]
*[[User:Adelina|Adelina]]
*[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]]
*[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]]

== Translation ==

'''Every Chapter must comform to the agreed points highlighted in the [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline Unified Format Guideline]'''

*The ''Suzumiya Haruhi'' series, by [[Tanigawa Nagaru]]
**Volume 1 - ''The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第一巻: 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Illustrations|Color Illustrations]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Prologue|Prologue]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter1|Chapter 1]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter2|Chapter 2]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter3|Chapter 3]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter4|Chapter 4]]
***[[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter5|Chapter 5 (Unfinished)]]
***Chapter 6
***Chapter 7
***Epilogue
***Author's notes

== Series Overview ==
* Volume 1 - ''The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第一巻: 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱
* Volume 2 - ''The Sighs of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第二巻: 涼宮ハルヒの溜息
* Volume 3 - ''The Boredom of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第三巻: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
* Volume 4 - ''The Vanishing of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第四巻: 涼宮ハルヒの消失
* Volume 5 - ''The Delusions of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第五巻: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走
* Volume 6 - ''The Trembling of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第六巻: 涼宮ハルヒの動揺
* Volume 7 - ''The Intrigues of Suzumiya Haruhi'' / 第七巻: 涼宮ハルヒの陰謀

Talk:Format guideline

2006-04-22T06:24:06Z

Ryukaiser: /* She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch */

Hello, so lets kick this up, what things should we address first?

Which things should be established first?

please use the "add comment" icon above.
Please scroll down for current Discussion.
Pervious Discussion on related format guidelinetopics have been copied here for reference.

==Volume 01, Chapter 01 Discussion==

==== Suzumiya Haruhi's language ====
This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass."
-- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style.
[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。
Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--[[User:Cruzz|Cruzz]] 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

=== Vague/Awkward sounding phrases ===
As I work on fixing up the various grammar, I keep coming across some phrases that sound odd, but which I am unsure what to do with. I hesitate to change them around too much on my own, so I'll list whatever ones I find here for discussion. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch ====
I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

: Is the "had" really necessary in "had assumed"? Why not just "so I assumed she went to the cafeteria..."? It's simpler and carries the same message. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:06, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

::Well, to me, since the story is narrated in past tense, just "I assumed" could cause some confusion, as it kind of implies he did so throughout the story, while "had assumed" says he did so at that time. The latter seems to be more accurate, to me. Others may disagree, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 23:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday. ====
This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I had assumed that as well, but now that Ryukaiser mentions it, I think it should go to with the "would have looked like" thing. I guess we need to see the original translation to really tell?
--[[User:Adelina|Adelina]] 10:44, 21 April 2006 (CST)

I agree with using the present tense in Kyon's musings about the hair styles. I think the "would have looked like" phrase works well without having the original Japanese on hand. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 23:12, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less. ====
The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as ''"It's as if to her, guys are..."'' Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What is that girl trying to pull? ====
Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly. ====
This phrase sorta confuses me. All what mess? Perpetrator of what? How does "May arrives quietly" relate to the rest of the sentence? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, I don't know. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it to mean that there were a great many rumours, uproars, disturbances etc which could all be somehow traced back to Haruhi. "May arrives" I interpret as 'in the midst of this chaos, May arrived.' Yeah, I guess this phrase does need to be re-written for greater clarity.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever! ====
Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?"
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest. ====
I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world. ====
I don't like the "is are" part of this sentence. I mean, I understand why it is there, but it looks awkward. The best idea I have is to put a comma after the phrase "or how amazing or cute someone's pet is," but it still looks awkward to me. And that's where I'll end my proofreading of chapter 1 for now. I'll pick it back up sometime later. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Oh, then let's break it up into two sentences *makes that minor edit too*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 02 Discussion ==

==== The Fall of Hyperion ====
About this passage:

''All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.''

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた
とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に
もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

''Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.''

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be ''The Fall of Hyperion'' by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his ''to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru''.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 05 Discussion ==

==== Original text ====

'''Page 161'''

第五章

週明け、そろそろ梅雨を感じさせる湿気を感じながら登校すると着いた頃には今までにも増
して汗みずくになった。誰かこの坂道にエスカレータを付けるという公約を掲げて選挙に出る
奴はいないものか。将来選挙を得たときにそいつに投票してやってもいい。

教室で下敷きを団扇代わりにして首元から風を送り込んでいたら、珍しく始業の鐘ギリギリ
にハルヒが入ってきた。

どすりと鞄を机に投出し、

「あたしも扇いでよ」

「自分でやれ」

ハルヒは二日前に駅前で別れたときまったく変化のない仏頂面で唇を突き出していた。最
近マツな顏になったと思っていたのに、また元に戻っちまった。

「あのさ、涼宮。お前『しあわせの青い鳥』って話知ってるか？」

「それが何？」

'''Page 162'''

「いや、まあ何でもないんだけどな」

「じゃあ訊いてくんな」

ハルヒは斜め上を睨み、俺は前を向き、岡部教師がやって来てホームルームが始まった。

この日の授業中、不機嫌オーラを八方に放射するハルヒのダウナーな気配がずっと俺の背中にプレッシャーを与えていた、いや、今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった。

山火事をいち早く察知した野ネズミのように、俺は部室棟へと退避する。

==== The Blue Bird of Happiness ====

First published in 1908 as ''L'Oiseau bleu'', this is a children's play by Belgian poet and playwright Maurice Polydore-Marie-Bernard Maeterlinck (1862-1949). Like [[Tanigawa Nagaru]], Maeterlinck first studied law, then turned to literature.

The play contains several elements that are congruent with the story of Suzumiya Haruhi and her merry friends. In the play, two children, a boy and a girl, are sent forth by a fairy, to seek the mystical Blue Bird of Happiness. On their journey, they visit numerous locales symbolic of human thought and emotion, including the Land of Memory, the Palace of Night and the Kingdom of the Future (note how these mirror Haruhi's companions). The children's quest is futile, but returning home, they find that the Blue Bird has been in the cage all along. The moral is that happiness can be found at home, and that the journey is as important as the goal.

No doubt Tanigawa-sensei is making an oblique point about the nature of his story. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]]

==== Haruhi's downer, and other minor points ====

1) Yes, it does, in fact, say "downer" in the text: ハルヒのダウナー

2) ''"the chime at the end of the day sounded like the peal of Heaven"'' is my best attempt to render 今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった into a form that flows well in English.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:16, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

----

== Current Discussion - New Points Discussed Here ==

== Kyon's Narration Tense ==

Kyon's Narration Tense is something we should quickly agree on I think. I point to the small conversation that started on this
[[Talk:Format_guideline#It_is_as_if_to_her.2C_the_guys_are_pumpkins_or_potato_sacks.2C_and_she_couldn.27t_care_less. | in Ch 1's discussions]] regarding how I think we ought to first agree on what 'the present' is for Kyon's Narration.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 18:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

* Ahh you mean this one?

'''Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

'''

personally I agree, i mean Kyon speak for the present, he doesn't speak with the knowledge of the future of past.

He's the vocal of the audience.

I guess with have to check with an a translator to know if he ever does start to speak with hindsight/foresight.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:07, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

There are certainly times when he speaks about the future, for example, from Chapter 1: "As I said, at first I felt very irritated, but later on I learned that all those people graduated from East Junior High." --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 20:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Ah, well there you go.
it gets more complicated already.
i'll leave it up to you lot ^^;

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 20:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Format guideline

2006-04-22T03:27:43Z

Ryukaiser: /* Volume 01, Chapter 01 Discussion */ minor format edit.

Hello, so lets kick this up, what things should we address first?

Which things should be established first?

please use the "add comment" icon above.
Please scroll down for current Discussion.
Pervious Discussion on related format guidelinetopics have been copied here for reference.

==Volume 01, Chapter 01 Discussion==

==== Suzumiya Haruhi's language ====
This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass."
-- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style.
[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。
Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--[[User:Cruzz|Cruzz]] 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

=== Vague/Awkward sounding phrases ===
As I work on fixing up the various grammar, I keep coming across some phrases that sound odd, but which I am unsure what to do with. I hesitate to change them around too much on my own, so I'll list whatever ones I find here for discussion. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch ====
I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday. ====
This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less. ====
The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as ''"It's as if to her, guys are..."'' Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What is that girl trying to pull? ====
Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly. ====
This phrase sorta confuses me. All what mess? Perpetrator of what? How does "May arrives quietly" relate to the rest of the sentence? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, I don't know. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it to mean that there were a great many rumours, uproars, disturbances etc which could all be somehow traced back to Haruhi. "May arrives" I interpret as 'in the midst of this chaos, May arrived.' Yeah, I guess this phrase does need to be re-written for greater clarity.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever! ====
Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?"
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest. ====
I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world. ====
I don't like the "is are" part of this sentence. I mean, I understand why it is there, but it looks awkward. The best idea I have is to put a comma after the phrase "or how amazing or cute someone's pet is," but it still looks awkward to me. And that's where I'll end my proofreading of chapter 1 for now. I'll pick it back up sometime later. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Oh, then let's break it up into two sentences *makes that minor edit too*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 02 Discussion ==

==== The Fall of Hyperion ====
About this passage:

''All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.''

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた
とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に
もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

''Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.''

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be ''The Fall of Hyperion'' by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his ''to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru''.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 05 Discussion ==

==== Original text ====

'''Page 161'''

第五章

週明け、そろそろ梅雨を感じさせる湿気を感じながら登校すると着いた頃には今までにも増
して汗みずくになった。誰かこの坂道にエスカレータを付けるという公約を掲げて選挙に出る
奴はいないものか。将来選挙を得たときにそいつに投票してやってもいい。

教室で下敷きを団扇代わりにして首元から風を送り込んでいたら、珍しく始業の鐘ギリギリ
にハルヒが入ってきた。

どすりと鞄を机に投出し、

「あたしも扇いでよ」

「自分でやれ」

ハルヒは二日前に駅前で別れたときまったく変化のない仏頂面で唇を突き出していた。最
近マツな顏になったと思っていたのに、また元に戻っちまった。

「あのさ、涼宮。お前『しあわせの青い鳥』って話知ってるか？」

「それが何？」

'''Page 162'''

「いや、まあ何でもないんだけどな」

「じゃあ訊いてくんな」

ハルヒは斜め上を睨み、俺は前を向き、岡部教師がやって来てホームルームが始まった。

この日の授業中、不機嫌オーラを八方に放射するハルヒのダウナーな気配がずっと俺の背中にプレッシャーを与えていた、いや、今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった。

山火事をいち早く察知した野ネズミのように、俺は部室棟へと退避する。

==== The Blue Bird of Happiness ====

First published in 1908 as ''L'Oiseau bleu'', this is a children's play by Belgian poet and playwright Maurice Polydore-Marie-Bernard Maeterlinck (1862-1949). Like [[Tanigawa Nagaru]], Maeterlinck first studied law, then turned to literature.

The play contains several elements that are congruent with the story of Suzumiya Haruhi and her merry friends. In the play, two children, a boy and a girl, are sent forth by a fairy, to seek the mystical Blue Bird of Happiness. On their journey, they visit numerous locales symbolic of human thought and emotion, including the Land of Memory, the Palace of Night and the Kingdom of the Future (note how these mirror Haruhi's companions). The children's quest is futile, but returning home, they find that the Blue Bird has been in the cage all along. The moral is that happiness can be found at home, and that the journey is as important as the goal.

No doubt Tanigawa-sensei is making an oblique point about the nature of his story. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]]

==== Haruhi's downer, and other minor points ====

1) Yes, it does, in fact, say "downer" in the text: ハルヒのダウナー

2) ''"the chime at the end of the day sounded like the peal of Heaven"'' is my best attempt to render 今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった into a form that flows well in English.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:16, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

----

== Current Discussion - New Points Discussed Here ==

== Kyon's Narration Tense ==

Kyon's Narration Tense is something we should quickly agree on I think. I point to the small conversation that started on this
[[Talk:Format_guideline#It_is_as_if_to_her.2C_the_guys_are_pumpkins_or_potato_sacks.2C_and_she_couldn.27t_care_less. | in Ch 1's discussions]] regarding how I think we ought to first agree on what 'the present' is for Kyon's Narration.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 18:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

* Ahh you mean this one?

'''Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

'''

personally I agree, i mean Kyon speak for the present, he doesn't speak with the knowledge of the future of past.

He's the vocal of the audience.

I guess with have to check with an a translator to know if he ever does start to speak with hindsight/foresight.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:07, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

There are certainly times when he speaks about the future, for example, from Chapter 1: "As I said, at first I felt very irritated, but later on I learned that all those people graduated from East Junior High." --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 20:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Format guideline

2006-04-22T03:24:34Z

Ryukaiser: /* Kyon's Narration Tense */

Hello, so lets kick this up, what things should we address first?

Which things should be established first?

please use the "add comment" icon above.
Please scroll down for current Discussion.
Pervious Discussion on related format guidelinetopics have been copied here for reference.

===Volume 01, Chapter 01 Discussion===

==== Suzumiya Haruhi's language ====
This is mostly about thelastguardian's translation of Haruhi using "kick ass". Psieye toned it down to "awesome". Although I am personally against using strong language, if this same crude language is present in the original Japanese, I won't complain keeping the "kick ass."
-- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:22, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Cruzz used the word "radical" for that passage. It certainly seems the best choice but his whole style is different so perhaps "radical" isn't what we're seeking here for this translation's style.
[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 23:44, 19 April 2006 (GMT)

I guess I'll jump in to say something. The original japanese line is:

高校にはもっとラディカルなサークルがあると思ってたのに。
Koukou ni wa motto radikaruna saakuru ga aru to omotteta no ni.

As such, I never even considered any other words except "radical". It covers both bases, and frankly I'd be willing to bet that the line is mostly referring to actual radicalness (differing from a norm).

--[[User:Cruzz|Cruzz]] 10:21, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Vague/Awkward sounding phrases ====
As I work on fixing up the various grammar, I keep coming across some phrases that sound odd, but which I am unsure what to do with. I hesitate to change them around too much on my own, so I'll list whatever ones I find here for discussion. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== She didn't carry a lunch box, so I guessed she went to the cafeteria to enjoy her lunch ====
I changed "guessed" to "had assumed" - it seems a bit clearer to me, but still seems awkward. (I'd have left it as "had guessed", but that sounds even worse.) --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== I suddenly want to see her hairstyle on Sunday. ====
This phrase bothers me a bit. From what I can tell, as he is narrating the story / remembering the events, he suddenly gets really curious about what her hair looked like on Sunday (which is very understandable). So, it should probably be in present tense, like it already is. What bothers me, though, is that Kyon should know, as he's relating events from the past, that she stops following that pattern, so, while his want is in the present, what he wants to see is something from the past. The best I can do to make it sound better is "I suddenly want to see what her hair would have looked like on a Sunday." but I don't know. What does anyone else think? --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, I automatically assumed that he got that urge to see her Sunday hair when he first figured out the pattern. Your interpretation works too though... either way I guess this phrase does need changing, but which way?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== It is as if to her, the guys are pumpkins or potato sacks, and she couldn't care less. ====
The ever-present tense issue. Have we come to a consensus about what tense these kind of phrases should be in? I changed it to past tense because, well, the description relates to her actions in the past. She may or may not still think that, but the actions which gave him that impression happened in the past. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.

Using my assumption above, it's easy to say that the above phrase should stay as ''"It's as if to her, guys are..."'' Question is, how valid is my assumption of when 'the present' is?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What is that girl trying to pull? ====
Kyon should know by now what she was up to, as he asks her about it later, so just changing it to past tense won't work. On the other hand, none of Kyon's other dialogue has anything like "I said" or "I wondered" or whatever, so it is difficult to make it clear that it is something he wondered at the time. I have no idea what to do with this one. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Mayhaps a complete rephrasing to something like "Her actions were so enigmatic" or "Her motives were an unfathomable mystery"?
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== In the middle of all this mess there is always only one perpetrator: Haruhi – May arrives quietly. ====
This phrase sorta confuses me. All what mess? Perpetrator of what? How does "May arrives quietly" relate to the rest of the sentence? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, I don't know. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it to mean that there were a great many rumours, uproars, disturbances etc which could all be somehow traced back to Haruhi. "May arrives" I interpret as 'in the midst of this chaos, May arrived.' Yeah, I guess this phrase does need to be re-written for greater clarity.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== What the hell does Earth want?! If this continues I would get Yellow Fever! ====
Another of Kyon's internal dialogues. The second part should probably be "If this continued, I would get Yellow Fever!" and I changed it as such, but I have no idea what to do with the first. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I took it simply as a figure of speech, an exclaimation. If we are to change that first part, try to find a more familiar exclaimation I guess: e.g. just shortening it to "What the hell?"
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== He lay his sports jacket on his shoulders; his shirt is wrinkled throughout his chest. ====
I am guessing the first part should be "His sports jacket layed on his shoulders," and I've changed it to that. I am not sure what to do with the second part, though. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest "shirt was wrinkled across his chest" *makes that minor edit*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Frankly, topics like what dreams people have, or how amazing or cute someone's pet is are, in my book, are some of the dullest topics in the world. ====
I don't like the "is are" part of this sentence. I mean, I understand why it is there, but it looks awkward. The best idea I have is to put a comma after the phrase "or how amazing or cute someone's pet is," but it still looks awkward to me. And that's where I'll end my proofreading of chapter 1 for now. I'll pick it back up sometime later. --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:51, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Oh, then let's break it up into two sentences *makes that minor edit too*
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 08:55, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 02 Discussion ==

==== The Fall of Hyperion ====
About this passage:

''All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.''

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた
とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に
もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

''Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.''

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be ''The Fall of Hyperion'' by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his ''to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru''.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Volume 01, Chapter 05 Discussion ==

==== Original text ====

'''Page 161'''

第五章

週明け、そろそろ梅雨を感じさせる湿気を感じながら登校すると着いた頃には今までにも増
して汗みずくになった。誰かこの坂道にエスカレータを付けるという公約を掲げて選挙に出る
奴はいないものか。将来選挙を得たときにそいつに投票してやってもいい。

教室で下敷きを団扇代わりにして首元から風を送り込んでいたら、珍しく始業の鐘ギリギリ
にハルヒが入ってきた。

どすりと鞄を机に投出し、

「あたしも扇いでよ」

「自分でやれ」

ハルヒは二日前に駅前で別れたときまったく変化のない仏頂面で唇を突き出していた。最
近マツな顏になったと思っていたのに、また元に戻っちまった。

「あのさ、涼宮。お前『しあわせの青い鳥』って話知ってるか？」

「それが何？」

'''Page 162'''

「いや、まあ何でもないんだけどな」

「じゃあ訊いてくんな」

ハルヒは斜め上を睨み、俺は前を向き、岡部教師がやって来てホームルームが始まった。

この日の授業中、不機嫌オーラを八方に放射するハルヒのダウナーな気配がずっと俺の背中にプレッシャーを与えていた、いや、今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった。

山火事をいち早く察知した野ネズミのように、俺は部室棟へと退避する。

==== The Blue Bird of Happiness ====

First published in 1908 as ''L'Oiseau bleu'', this is a children's play by Belgian poet and playwright Maurice Polydore-Marie-Bernard Maeterlinck (1862-1949). Like [[Tanigawa Nagaru]], Maeterlinck first studied law, then turned to literature.

The play contains several elements that are congruent with the story of Suzumiya Haruhi and her merry friends. In the play, two children, a boy and a girl, are sent forth by a fairy, to seek the mystical Blue Bird of Happiness. On their journey, they visit numerous locales symbolic of human thought and emotion, including the Land of Memory, the Palace of Night and the Kingdom of the Future (note how these mirror Haruhi's companions). The children's quest is futile, but returning home, they find that the Blue Bird has been in the cage all along. The moral is that happiness can be found at home, and that the journey is as important as the goal.

No doubt Tanigawa-sensei is making an oblique point about the nature of his story. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]]

==== Haruhi's downer, and other minor points ====

1) Yes, it does, in fact, say "downer" in the text: ハルヒのダウナー

2) ''"the chime at the end of the day sounded like the peal of Heaven"'' is my best attempt to render 今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった into a form that flows well in English.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:16, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

----

== Current Discussion - New Points Discussed Here ==

== Kyon's Narration Tense ==

Kyon's Narration Tense is something we should quickly agree on I think. I point to the small conversation that started on this
[[Talk:Format_guideline#It_is_as_if_to_her.2C_the_guys_are_pumpkins_or_potato_sacks.2C_and_she_couldn.27t_care_less. | in Ch 1's discussions]] regarding how I think we ought to first agree on what 'the present' is for Kyon's Narration.
--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 18:39, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

* Ahh you mean this one?

'''Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

'''

personally I agree, i mean Kyon speak for the present, he doesn't speak with the knowledge of the future of past.

He's the vocal of the audience.

I guess with have to check with an a translator to know if he ever does start to speak with hindsight/foresight.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:07, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

There are certainly times when he speaks about the future, for example, from Chapter 1: "As I said, at first I felt very irritated, but later on I learned that all those people graduated from East Junior High." --[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 20:24, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter1

2006-04-21T12:51:14Z

Ryukaiser: Added a section for the discussion of awkward- or odd-sounding phrases

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-21T12:50:10Z

Ryukaiser: /* Standardlizing Script Format */

== Haruhi FOEEEVVEEER ==

hey mates! thanks for all your work!

Just want to tell you we appriciate what your doing, for all use dis-lingo haruhiist!

:p

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 16:57, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

== Thanks ==

I love the story so far. Thanks a lot~

== Kyon's Tenses ==

Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

== Regrading the format of Baka-Tsuki Wiki ==

I am not really a fan of adding all those volumes' names into the "Finished works" part as it might make others think that we(the translators/editors) have it all planned out.
Therefore I am going to move the volume titles into another section of the page.

That being said, if any of you want to translate a particular volume (doesn't have to be in numerical order), you are welcome to do so.

Those aside. I am currently trying to find the best format for this wiki. Thus please do not edit the main pages excessively for the next few days.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:54, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we may be making this look more "professional" than we want to. There is always a danger of being ''too'' professional, if you see what I mean. Meanwhile, I've added a page on [[Tanikawa Nagaru]] with some biographical data and a bibliography.
--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:42, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

If you are referring to the edits I've made to a couple of the main pages, I just find it much easier to be able to click "Community portal" on the sidebar to go back to the index then to have to go to the main page and click the link. That and I don't like how external links look.
--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:38, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== As for the tenses problem ==

''I can't decide. As you are probably aware, there are some parts that are more suitable with passive voice, while others are plainly narrarated in past tense.'' - I on AS forum

I will leave it at the translators' discretion for now until we come to a general consensus.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:56, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

: I think when Kyon is relating to a specific image that is depicted in the novel, he is more likely to talk in the present tense (such as when he makes an aside comment or explanation aimed at the audience). It sounds like a way for the author to immerse the reader in Kyon's environment. Oh, and I don't think using past tense for Kyon's musings of Haruhi's personality is proper since it implies that Haruhi is now different from how she was in the past. There are moments such as when Kyon considers his outlook on life where using the past tense seems obvious. I'm of the opinion of mixing past/present tense in consideration of the Kyon's current focus (Haruhi, dialogue, life outlook, audience aside, etc.). Overall, I think The Melancholy of Haruhi novel reads best when rendered as a very descriptive play.

: As for the passive/active voice, I'm only making changes where I think the text reads too rough or awkward in the wording. That's some ambiguous criteria, but it's all I have to go by with no special training. -- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

::Personally, in the proofreadings I've been doing, I would just change it to past tense if it is obvious Kyon is talking about something in the past. If it isn't, I leave it as-is. I'm kind of unsure what to say about a standard for this, though. Some things are obviously present, while others - such as the example mentioned above (when Kyon talks about others' personalities and such) are more debateable. -- [[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:44, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== Differentiating Kyon's dialogue ==
From what Thelastguardian tells me, Kyon's dialogue is not contained in parathesis in the novel. This sounds like the author is trying to allow the reader to connect with Kyon on a more personal level by making him less a character in a story and more a familiar friend sharing a personal story. Of course, that makes for some confusing dialogue since his words are not differentiated from his inner thoughts. And even if we put parenthesis around his words, there are no ", said Kyon" or ", mumbled Kyon" like is found in most novels that I'm familiar with.

A solution that I believe will do nicely is to simply italicize Kyon's words throughout the novel. Thus, we are both maintaining the author's literary style and differentiating Kyon's words in a way not overly invasive of the original text.

--[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:48, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

That Kyon's dialogue isn't in parentheses, I took to mean that much of it was internal dialogue -- in effect, the only person Kyon is speaking to is the reader, as Kyon functions as narrator.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:44, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

: Not exactly. There are parts that make no sense if Kyon didn't say that line out loud. It goes something like this (just some random sentences).
: ''A: "But this can't be true!!"'' 
: ''B: Well, this is what is happening now!'' 
: ''A: "I don't care!"''

: You can almost say that the point of view of the story changed briefly in that dialogue.

: It is almost as if Kyon is talking to us, the reader, as well as the character inside the story.

: The script is littered with this kind of dialogues.
: --[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 17:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Editor section ==

While there are many contributing users, some stand out more then others so I have added a editor section to show who has been contributing more then three times.

That is my take, but perhaps we need a discussion on how many edits and the quality of them, to determines who should be mentioned here?

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 13:15, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== Standardlizing Script Format ==

Hello fellow Editors & contributors.

Lets open the debate on the topic of standardlize writing format.

While we all respect each translators scripting style, it has been general agreed by thelastguardian that it would be unwise for readers to experience different styles across each chapters, and he has suggested that a translater undertakes a volume each.

I personally find that this will only result in the same problems except it will be by volume to volume with each translators taking more time, and forcing the reader to take longer to change from one style to another as they will have grown familiar with each volume style.

I suggest we let the translators to get on with their jobs, and have the editors worry about it, let you lot standardlize it so that they will flow together.

lets find a compromise between all the translators styles, finding the easiest and less labour edit intense would be preferred.

I suggest those who have just recently join this projects, to read this thread at Animesuki.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31120

We are hoping to form some sort guideline by the end of this, so please debate here, or on the animesuki thread mentioned above.

thanks.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 04:42, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

::Intriguing idea. I am of the same opinion, and, in fact, I was just opening a new section on Chapter 1's talk page for the discussion of odd-sounding phrases and how to make them sound more natural.
::
::In any case, though, it would be a good idea to have some standard for editors. Some issues have already been brought up here, but there seems to have been little actual discussion about them.
::
::--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:50, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-20T11:44:02Z

Ryukaiser: /* As for the tenses problem */

hey mates! thanks for all your work!

Just want to tell you we appriciate what your doing, for all use dis-lingo haruhiist!

:p

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 16:57, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

== Thanks ==

I love the story so far. Thanks a lot~

== Kyon's Tenses ==

Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

== Regrading the format of Baka-Tsuki Wiki ==

I am not really a fan of adding all those volumes' names into the "Finished works" part as it might make others think that we(the translators/editors) have it all planned out.
Therefore I am going to move the volume titles into another section of the page.

That being said, if any of you want to translate a particular volume (doesn't have to be in numerical order), you are welcome to do so.

Those aside. I am currently trying to find the best format for this wiki. Thus please do not edit the main pages excessively for the next few days.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:54, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we may be making this look more "professional" than we want to. There is always a danger of being ''too'' professional, if you see what I mean. Meanwhile, I've added a page on [[Tanikawa Nagaru]] with some biographical data and a bibliography.
--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:42, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

If you are referring to the edits I've made to a couple of the main pages, I just find it much easier to be able to click "Community portal" on the sidebar to go back to the index then to have to go to the main page and click the link. That and I don't like how external links look.
--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:38, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== As for the tenses problem ==

''I can't decide. As you are probably aware, there are some parts that are more suitable with passive voice, while others are plainly narrarated in past tense.'' - I on AS forum

I will leave it at the translators' discretion for now until we come to a general consensus.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:56, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

: I think when Kyon is relating to a specific image that is depicted in the novel, he is more likely to talk in the present tense (such as when he makes an aside comment or explanation aimed at the audience). It sounds like a way for the author to immerse the reader in Kyon's environment. Oh, and I don't think using past tense for Kyon's musings of Haruhi's personality is proper since it implies that Haruhi is now different from how she was in the past. There are moments such as when Kyon considers his outlook on life where using the past tense seems obvious. I'm of the opinion of mixing past/present tense in consideration of the Kyon's current focus (Haruhi, dialogue, life outlook, audience aside, etc.). Overall, I think The Melancholy of Haruhi novel reads best when rendered as a very descriptive play.

: As for the passive/active voice, I'm only making changes where I think the text reads too rough or awkward in the wording. That's some ambiguous criteria, but it's all I have to go by with no special training. -- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

::Personally, in the proofreadings I've been doing, I would just change it to past tense if it is obvious Kyon is talking about something in the past. If it isn't, I leave it as-is. I'm kind of unsure what to say about a standard for this, though. Some things are obviously present, while others - such as the example mentioned above (when Kyon talks about others' personalities and such) are more debateable. -- [[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:44, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== Differentiating Kyon's dialogue ==
From what Thelastguardian tells me, Kyon's dialogue is not contained in parathesis in the novel. This sounds like the author is trying to allow the reader to connect with Kyon on a more personal level by making him less a character in a story and more a familiar friend sharing a personal story. Of course, that makes for some confusing dialogue since his words are not differentiated from his inner thoughts. And even if we put parenthesis around his words, there are no ", said Kyon" or ", mumbled Kyon" like is found in most novels that I'm familiar with.

A solution that I believe will do nicely is to simply italicize Kyon's words throughout the novel. Thus, we are both maintaining the author's literary style and differentiating Kyon's words in a way not overly invasive of the original text.

--[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:48, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

That Kyon's dialogue isn't in parentheses, I took to mean that much of it was internal dialogue -- in effect, the only person Kyon is speaking to is the reader, as Kyon functions as narrator.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:44, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

: Not exactly. There are parts that make no sense if Kyon didn't say that line out loud. It goes something like this (just some random sentences).
: ''A: "But this can't be true!!"'' 
: ''B: Well, this is what is happening now!'' 
: ''A: "I don't care!"''

: You can almost say that the point of view of the story changed briefly in that dialogue.

: It is almost as if Kyon is talking to us, the reader, as well as the character inside the story.

: The script is littered with this kind of dialogues.
: --[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 17:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-20T11:38:30Z

Ryukaiser: /* Regrading the format of Baka-Tsuki Wiki */

hey mates! thanks for all your work!

Just want to tell you we appriciate what your doing, for all use dis-lingo haruhiist!

:p

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 16:57, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

== Thanks ==

I love the story so far. Thanks a lot~

== Kyon's Tenses ==

Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.

== Regrading the format of Baka-Tsuki Wiki ==

I am not really a fan of adding all those volumes' names into the "Finished works" part as it might make others think that we(the translators/editors) have it all planned out.
Therefore I am going to move the volume titles into another section of the page.

That being said, if any of you want to translate a particular volume (doesn't have to be in numerical order), you are welcome to do so.

Those aside. I am currently trying to find the best format for this wiki. Thus please do not edit the main pages excessively for the next few days.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:54, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we may be making this look more "professional" than we want to. There is always a danger of being ''too'' professional, if you see what I mean. Meanwhile, I've added a page on [[Tanikawa Nagaru]] with some biographical data and a bibliography.
--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:42, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

If you are referring to the edits I've made to a couple of the main pages, I just find it much easier to be able to click "Community portal" on the sidebar to go back to the index then to have to go to the main page and click the link. That and I don't like how external links look.
--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:38, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== As for the tenses problem ==

''I can't decide. As you are probably aware, there are some parts that are more suitable with passive voice, while others are plainly narrarated in past tense.'' - I on AS forum

I will leave it at the translators' discretion for now until we come to a general consensus.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:56, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

: I think when Kyon is relating to a specific image that is depicted in the novel, he is more likely to talk in the present tense (such as when he makes an aside comment or explanation aimed at the audience). It sounds like a way for the author to immerse the reader in Kyon's environment. Oh, and I don't think using past tense for Kyon's musings of Haruhi's personality is proper since it implies that Haruhi is now different from how she was in the past. There are moments such as when Kyon considers his outlook on life where using the past tense seems obvious. I'm of the opinion of mixing past/present tense in consideration of the Kyon's current focus (Haruhi, dialogue, life outlook, audience aside, etc.). Overall, I think The Melancholy of Haruhi novel reads best when rendered as a very descriptive play.

: As for the passive/active voice, I'm only making changes where I think the text reads too rough or awkward in the wording. That's some ambiguous criteria, but it's all I have to go by with no special training. -- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

== Differentiating Kyon's dialogue ==
From what Thelastguardian tells me, Kyon's dialogue is not contained in parathesis in the novel. This sounds like the author is trying to allow the reader to connect with Kyon on a more personal level by making him less a character in a story and more a familiar friend sharing a personal story. Of course, that makes for some confusing dialogue since his words are not differentiated from his inner thoughts. And even if we put parenthesis around his words, there are no ", said Kyon" or ", mumbled Kyon" like is found in most novels that I'm familiar with.

A solution that I believe will do nicely is to simply italicize Kyon's words throughout the novel. Thus, we are both maintaining the author's literary style and differentiating Kyon's words in a way not overly invasive of the original text.

--[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:48, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

That Kyon's dialogue isn't in parentheses, I took to mean that much of it was internal dialogue -- in effect, the only person Kyon is speaking to is the reader, as Kyon functions as narrator.

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:44, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

: Not exactly. There are parts that make no sense if Kyon didn't say that line out loud. It goes something like this (just some random sentences).
: ''A: "But this can't be true!!"'' 
: ''B: Well, this is what is happening now!'' 
: ''A: "I don't care!"''

: You can almost say that the point of view of the story changed briefly in that dialogue.

: It is almost as if Kyon is talking to us, the reader, as well as the character inside the story.

: The script is littered with this kind of dialogues.
: --[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 17:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Suzumiya Haruhi

2006-04-18T21:13:36Z

Ryukaiser: Edited links to be internal instead of external.