Talk:Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei:Volume 7 Chapter 9 - Revision history

Popocatepetl: /* Fujibayashi talk */

2014-01-01T07:29:38Z

Fujibayashi talk

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	==Fujibayashi talk==		==Fujibayashi talk==

	When it says: "No matter how much it hurt her, , he was still an invaluable asset, so her position did not afford her the luxury of saying "stay out of it" ", does Fujibayashi mean that it hurts her that he is an invaluable asset (envy) or does she mean that it hurts her that he has to use him even though he is a teenager and does not want to hurt him more than necessary (divine left)?		When it says: "No matter how much it hurt her, , he was still an invaluable asset, so her position did not afford her the luxury of saying "stay out of it" ", does Fujibayashi mean that it hurts her that he is an invaluable asset (envy) or does she mean that it hurts her that he has to use him even though he is a teenager and does not want to hurt him more than necessary (divine left)? --[[User:Popocatepetl\|popocatepetl]] ([[User talk:Popocatepetl\|talk]]) 01:29, 1 January 2014 (CST)

	== Electrons ==		== Electrons ==

Popocatepetl at 07:29, 1 January 2014

2014-01-01T07:29:15Z

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	thank you for the update.		thank you for the update.

			==Fujibayashi talk==

			When it says: "No matter how much it hurt her, , he was still an invaluable asset, so her position did not afford her the luxury of saying "stay out of it" ", does Fujibayashi mean that it hurts her that he is an invaluable asset (envy) or does she mean that it hurts her that he has to use him even though he is a teenager and does not want to hurt him more than necessary (divine left)?

	== Electrons ==		== Electrons ==

EnigmaticAxiom at 00:20, 15 February 2013

2013-02-15T00:20:36Z

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	:Technobabble in stories ALWAYS needs to be accurate based on what the original text says, not on what actual research says. Making "helpful" corrections to information in order to make them actual facts can actually piss a lot of people off if it gets referenced later on by something else and there's no consistency. [[User:Rava\|Rava]] ([[User talk:Rava\|talk]]) 17:49, 14 February 2013 (CST)		:Technobabble in stories ALWAYS needs to be accurate based on what the original text says, not on what actual research says. Making "helpful" corrections to information in order to make them actual facts can actually piss a lot of people off if it gets referenced later on by something else and there's no consistency. [[User:Rava\|Rava]] ([[User talk:Rava\|talk]]) 17:49, 14 February 2013 (CST)

			It is possible the author used "Electron Repulsive Forces" because "Electric Repulsive Forces" does not quite exist in the Japanese language, or because that phrase would refer to a more electricity type phenomenon than an atomic one. It is also possible he uses the term as an all-encompassing one, including both the forces from the nuclei and the electrons. If you read further down in the requirements section of the wiki page (geh, I hate referring to wiki, but it's the easiest to find and understand resource), there's mention that removing electrons requires much less energy than fusing the nucleii together, and other electrons are released due to the instability of the atom, which provides enough energy to overcome the energy barrier required for fusion to occur. Assuming this is the case, there would be a mass of electrons floating about, which could also pose a problem, since their repulsive forces should theoretically be about the same as the nuclei repulsive force (coulomb's law is dependent on charge and distance, not mass).

			Anyway, I'm ending it here now. It's a pointless conversation, I think. I feel the author tries to be as accurate as possible to the science, but the explanation is a bit too vague for such a complicated topic (despite how many pages he spends talking about it) to really say anything one way or the other :(

			I really wish I had that piece of paper I wrote all this one, because I'm pretty sure it addressed this very issue. Then again, I read the web novel over a year ago, so that paper is long gone. --[[User:EnigmaticAxiom\|EnigmaticAxiom]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticAxiom\|talk]]) 18:20, 14 February 2013 (CST)

Rava: /* Electrons */

2013-02-14T23:50:18Z

Electrons

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	[this response is now redundant with the above, but I don't feel like throwing away what I typed. simultaneous edits...] While I'm not a nuclear physicist, I would have to agree with Kemm that the explanation of a thermonuclear reaction in the chapter seemed off. The repulsion forces between the nuclei are the primary barrier that must be overcome for fusion to occur. Electrons do of course repel each other, but they don't have any reason to collide or fuse in a nuclear fusion reaction. ''That said, I could believe that the translation is accurate as it is''. Light novel authors aren't necessarily picky about their scientific details, or being scientifically accurate (though this is one of the larger hic-ups I've seen). Of course, the author could also always just say that physics and "thermonuclear fusion" don't work the same way in this universe; there is already magic. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 17:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)		[this response is now redundant with the above, but I don't feel like throwing away what I typed. simultaneous edits...] While I'm not a nuclear physicist, I would have to agree with Kemm that the explanation of a thermonuclear reaction in the chapter seemed off. The repulsion forces between the nuclei are the primary barrier that must be overcome for fusion to occur. Electrons do of course repel each other, but they don't have any reason to collide or fuse in a nuclear fusion reaction. ''That said, I could believe that the translation is accurate as it is''. Light novel authors aren't necessarily picky about their scientific details, or being scientifically accurate (though this is one of the larger hic-ups I've seen). Of course, the author could also always just say that physics and "thermonuclear fusion" don't work the same way in this universe; there is already magic. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 17:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)

	:Technobabble in stories ALWAYS needs to be accurate based on what the original text says, not on what actual research says. Making "helpful" corrections to ~~factually true~~ information can actually piss a lot of people off if it gets referenced later on by something else and there's no consistency. [[User:Rava\|Rava]] ([[User talk:Rava\|talk]]) 17:49, 14 February 2013 (CST)		:Technobabble in stories ALWAYS needs to be accurate based on what the original text says, not on what actual research says. Making "helpful" corrections to information in order to make them actual facts can actually piss a lot of people off if it gets referenced later on by something else and there's no consistency. [[User:Rava\|Rava]] ([[User talk:Rava\|talk]]) 17:49, 14 February 2013 (CST)

Rava at 23:49, 14 February 2013

2013-02-14T23:49:42Z

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	[this response is now redundant with the above, but I don't feel like throwing away what I typed. simultaneous edits...] While I'm not a nuclear physicist, I would have to agree with Kemm that the explanation of a thermonuclear reaction in the chapter seemed off. The repulsion forces between the nuclei are the primary barrier that must be overcome for fusion to occur. Electrons do of course repel each other, but they don't have any reason to collide or fuse in a nuclear fusion reaction. ''That said, I could believe that the translation is accurate as it is''. Light novel authors aren't necessarily picky about their scientific details, or being scientifically accurate (though this is one of the larger hic-ups I've seen). Of course, the author could also always just say that physics and "thermonuclear fusion" don't work the same way in this universe; there is already magic. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 17:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)		[this response is now redundant with the above, but I don't feel like throwing away what I typed. simultaneous edits...] While I'm not a nuclear physicist, I would have to agree with Kemm that the explanation of a thermonuclear reaction in the chapter seemed off. The repulsion forces between the nuclei are the primary barrier that must be overcome for fusion to occur. Electrons do of course repel each other, but they don't have any reason to collide or fuse in a nuclear fusion reaction. ''That said, I could believe that the translation is accurate as it is''. Light novel authors aren't necessarily picky about their scientific details, or being scientifically accurate (though this is one of the larger hic-ups I've seen). Of course, the author could also always just say that physics and "thermonuclear fusion" don't work the same way in this universe; there is already magic. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 17:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)

			:Technobabble in stories ALWAYS needs to be accurate based on what the original text says, not on what actual research says. Making "helpful" corrections to factually true information can actually piss a lot of people off if it gets referenced later on by something else and there's no consistency. [[User:Rava\|Rava]] ([[User talk:Rava\|talk]]) 17:49, 14 February 2013 (CST)

Cthaeh: /* Electrons */

2013-02-14T23:38:55Z

Electrons

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	According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion#Requirements, the "primary obstacle for thermonuclear power" that Suzune is talking about should be the repulsive electrostatic force between positively charged protons. Nuclear fusion involves bringing the two protons together and fuse them to form helium nuclei, and this involves very short distances that I don't think the free electrons will come to play at all. Also, it has been a while since I took chemistry, but I think the term "ionized electron" doesn't make any sense. Ions always refer to the atomic nucleus that has lost or gained electrons so that the whole become positively/negatively charged. So, if we are strictly following the physics, I believe it should be changed to protons. But if that is what is in the original raw, I guess it is more important to maintain translation accuracy?		According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion#Requirements, the "primary obstacle for thermonuclear power" that Suzune is talking about should be the repulsive electrostatic force between positively charged protons. Nuclear fusion involves bringing the two protons together and fuse them to form helium nuclei, and this involves very short distances that I don't think the free electrons will come to play at all. Also, it has been a while since I took chemistry, but I think the term "ionized electron" doesn't make any sense. Ions always refer to the atomic nucleus that has lost or gained electrons so that the whole become positively/negatively charged. So, if we are strictly following the physics, I believe it should be changed to protons. But if that is what is in the original raw, I guess it is more important to maintain translation accuracy?

			[this response is now redundant with the above, but I don't feel like throwing away what I typed. simultaneous edits...] While I'm not a nuclear physicist, I would have to agree with Kemm that the explanation of a thermonuclear reaction in the chapter seemed off. The repulsion forces between the nuclei are the primary barrier that must be overcome for fusion to occur. Electrons do of course repel each other, but they don't have any reason to collide or fuse in a nuclear fusion reaction. ''That said, I could believe that the translation is accurate as it is''. Light novel authors aren't necessarily picky about their scientific details, or being scientifically accurate (though this is one of the larger hic-ups I've seen). Of course, the author could also always just say that physics and "thermonuclear fusion" don't work the same way in this universe; there is already magic. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 17:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)

220.255.1.113 at 23:33, 14 February 2013

2013-02-14T23:33:51Z

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	"Electron" was written in hiragana/katakana, instead of kanji, so it was not a mistake. Remember, the energy used for nuclear fusion is used to force the nuclei together, but the electrons are left floating on their own, exerting their own repulsive forces, which is why it is called electron repulsive forces. While I can't be 100% sure, I have translated this passage twice, using google/atlas for the web novel, and a dictionary for the light novel. On top of that, I did the research when reading the web novel and reviewed the material when reading the light novel, so I have some confidence in it :P --[[User:EnigmaticAxiom\|EnigmaticAxiom]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticAxiom\|talk]]) 17:10, 14 February 2013 (CST)		"Electron" was written in hiragana/katakana, instead of kanji, so it was not a mistake. Remember, the energy used for nuclear fusion is used to force the nuclei together, but the electrons are left floating on their own, exerting their own repulsive forces, which is why it is called electron repulsive forces. While I can't be 100% sure, I have translated this passage twice, using google/atlas for the web novel, and a dictionary for the light novel. On top of that, I did the research when reading the web novel and reviewed the material when reading the light novel, so I have some confidence in it :P --[[User:EnigmaticAxiom\|EnigmaticAxiom]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticAxiom\|talk]]) 17:10, 14 February 2013 (CST)

			According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion#Requirements, the "primary obstacle for thermonuclear power" that Suzune is talking about should be the repulsive electrostatic force between positively charged protons. Nuclear fusion involves bringing the two protons together and fuse them to form helium nuclei, and this involves very short distances that I don't think the free electrons will come to play at all. Also, it has been a while since I took chemistry, but I think the term "ionized electron" doesn't make any sense. Ions always refer to the atomic nucleus that has lost or gained electrons so that the whole become positively/negatively charged. So, if we are strictly following the physics, I believe it should be changed to protons. But if that is what is in the original raw, I guess it is more important to maintain translation accuracy?

EnigmaticAxiom: /* Electrons */

2013-02-14T23:10:29Z

Electrons

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	Though some of them could be "electric" (electron repulsion forces -> electric repulsion forces). --[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 16:31, 14 February 2013 (CST)		Though some of them could be "electric" (electron repulsion forces -> electric repulsion forces). --[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 16:31, 14 February 2013 (CST)

			"Electron" was written in hiragana/katakana, instead of kanji, so it was not a mistake. Remember, the energy used for nuclear fusion is used to force the nuclei together, but the electrons are left floating on their own, exerting their own repulsive forces, which is why it is called electron repulsive forces. While I can't be 100% sure, I have translated this passage twice, using google/atlas for the web novel, and a dictionary for the light novel. On top of that, I did the research when reading the web novel and reviewed the material when reading the light novel, so I have some confidence in it :P --[[User:EnigmaticAxiom\|EnigmaticAxiom]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticAxiom\|talk]]) 17:10, 14 February 2013 (CST)

Kemm: /* Electrons */

2013-02-14T22:32:47Z

Electrons

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	Not that I have RAWs to check it, but since they are talking about nuclear fusion (mind that "nuclear"), shouldn't it be "protons" (or nuclei) instead of "electrons"?--[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 14:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)		Not that I have RAWs to check it, but since they are talking about nuclear fusion (mind that "nuclear"), shouldn't it be "protons" (or nuclei) instead of "electrons"?--[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 14:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)

	Though some of them could be "electric" (electron repulsion forces -> electric repulsion forces). --[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 16:31, 14 February 2013 (CST)		Though some of them could be "electric" (electron repulsion forces -> electric repulsion forces). --[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 16:31, 14 February 2013 (CST)

Kemm: /* Electrons */

2013-02-14T22:31:54Z

Electrons

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	Not that I have RAWs to check it, but since they are talking about nuclear fusion (mind that "nuclear"), shouldn't it be "protons" (or nuclei) instead of "electrons"?--[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 14:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)		Not that I have RAWs to check it, but since they are talking about nuclear fusion (mind that "nuclear"), shouldn't it be "protons" (or nuclei) instead of "electrons"?--[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 14:38, 14 February 2013 (CST)
			Though some of them could be "electric" (electron repulsion forces -> electric repulsion forces). --[[User:Kemm\|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm\|talk]]) 16:31, 14 February 2013 (CST)