Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume1 Chapter5 - Revision history

Dohma at 15:38, 22 February 2014

2014-02-22T15:38:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 22 February 2014
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	::* He thinks it's going to be 'a difficult battle/struggle' if he has to win without losing any soldiers; I forgot to translate the 'has to win' part.. Also, with 'rattle my brains' I meant that Oubary has to think hard on it for a while. Is 'rack my brains' better?		::* He thinks it's going to be 'a difficult battle/struggle' if he has to win without losing any soldiers; I forgot to translate the 'has to win' part.. Also, with 'rattle my brains' I meant that Oubary has to think hard on it for a while. Is 'rack my brains' better?
	:::*I do think "rack my brains" would be better. I actually misinterpreted the meaning as it is currently. I thought it was saying that getting a ‘fair achievement for the prince’ would annoy him (rattle his brains), because he didn't want to be helping the prince. However, with "rack my brains", the subject performing the action should be the person, so the sentence should be rearranged to something like "I will/might have to rack my brains a little to figure out how to get a ‘fair achievement for the prince’." If you do adopt that new suggested phrasing for the rest of the sentence, then I think the "although at most" doesn't fit and should probably be reworded (I don't understand the intent well enough to suggest anything for that). - Cthaeh		:::*I do think "rack my brains" would be better. I actually misinterpreted the meaning as it is currently. I thought it was saying that getting a ‘fair achievement for the prince’ would annoy him (rattle his brains), because he didn't want to be helping the prince. However, with "rack my brains", the subject performing the action should be the person, so the sentence should be rearranged to something like "I will/might have to rack my brains a little to figure out how to get a ‘fair achievement for the prince’." If you do adopt that new suggested phrasing for the rest of the sentence, then I think the "although at most" doesn't fit and should probably be reworded (I don't understand the intent well enough to suggest anything for that). - Cthaeh
			::::* Used your suggestion. Thanks.

	Thus, the young princess wielded in her fervent speech that they should turn him back to his righteous self.		Thus, the young princess wielded in her fervent speech that they should turn him back to his righteous self.

Detalz at 03:52, 28 November 2013

2013-11-28T03:52:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:52, 28 November 2013
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	An anon edit changed emigrate to immigrate. I understand why he or she might have done this, because it's more natural sounding to say "emigrate ''from''" or "immigrated ''to''". Both work fine to some degree, however, I would argue that the correct usage depends on the frame of reference and emphasis on either leaving or arriving. In this case, the emphasis is that they left from Earth to an undefined location. Because the destination is undefined, I would say the original word choice of "emigrate to" is correct. Whether I'm right or wrong, this a more subtle issue, so I wanted to allow for any discussion before reverting that change. Also, whenever I or someone else corrects (or not) the emigrate issue, 'analyzed' should also be changed back to BE analysed. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:11, 27 November 2013 (CST)		An anon edit changed emigrate to immigrate. I understand why he or she might have done this, because it's more natural sounding to say "emigrate ''from''" or "immigrated ''to''". Both work fine to some degree, however, I would argue that the correct usage depends on the frame of reference and emphasis on either leaving or arriving. In this case, the emphasis is that they left from Earth to an undefined location. Because the destination is undefined, I would say the original word choice of "emigrate to" is correct. Whether I'm right or wrong, this a more subtle issue, so I wanted to allow for any discussion before reverting that change. Also, whenever I or someone else corrects (or not) the emigrate issue, 'analyzed' should also be changed back to BE analysed. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:11, 27 November 2013 (CST)
			:*I'm also of the opinion emigrate is correct for similar reasons. I'll approve of the reversion on both accounts on Dohma's behalf, since he's busy. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 21:52, 27 November 2013 (CST)

	== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==		== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==

Cthaeh: emigrate vs immigrate

2013-11-28T03:11:15Z

emigrate vs immigrate

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:11, 28 November 2013
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	::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
	*I'm getting a similar translation, though I would recommend "those who dragged down his feet" or "those who weighed him down" if you want literal, or 'slow him down' for liberal. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		*I'm getting a similar translation, though I would recommend "those who dragged down his feet" or "those who weighed him down" if you want literal, or 'slow him down' for liberal. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

			An anon edit changed emigrate to immigrate. I understand why he or she might have done this, because it's more natural sounding to say "emigrate ''from''" or "immigrated ''to''". Both work fine to some degree, however, I would argue that the correct usage depends on the frame of reference and emphasis on either leaving or arriving. In this case, the emphasis is that they left from Earth to an undefined location. Because the destination is undefined, I would say the original word choice of "emigrate to" is correct. Whether I'm right or wrong, this a more subtle issue, so I wanted to allow for any discussion before reverting that change. Also, whenever I or someone else corrects (or not) the emigrate issue, 'analyzed' should also be changed back to BE analysed. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:11, 27 November 2013 (CST)

	== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==		== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==

Cthaeh: reply

2013-09-26T01:05:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:05, 26 September 2013
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	:*The middle sentence "rattle my brains" seems like it might have a more natural phrasing, but I can't think of one at the moment. The last sentence phrasing seems a little awkward. I interpreted it as something like "I think it will be difficult to get through this battle without losing any soldiers". The structure of the current sentence makes the following interpretation come to mind, "I think it won't be too difficult to go through this battle without losing a single soldier", but that obvious has a completely different meaning from the actual sentence.		:*The middle sentence "rattle my brains" seems like it might have a more natural phrasing, but I can't think of one at the moment. The last sentence phrasing seems a little awkward. I interpreted it as something like "I think it will be difficult to get through this battle without losing any soldiers". The structure of the current sentence makes the following interpretation come to mind, "I think it won't be too difficult to go through this battle without losing a single soldier", but that obvious has a completely different meaning from the actual sentence.
	::* He thinks it's going to be 'a difficult battle/struggle' if he has to win without losing any soldiers; I forgot to translate the 'has to win' part.. Also, with 'rattle my brains' I meant that Oubary has to think hard on it for a while. Is 'rack my brains' better?		::* He thinks it's going to be 'a difficult battle/struggle' if he has to win without losing any soldiers; I forgot to translate the 'has to win' part.. Also, with 'rattle my brains' I meant that Oubary has to think hard on it for a while. Is 'rack my brains' better?
			:::*I do think "rack my brains" would be better. I actually misinterpreted the meaning as it is currently. I thought it was saying that getting a ‘fair achievement for the prince’ would annoy him (rattle his brains), because he didn't want to be helping the prince. However, with "rack my brains", the subject performing the action should be the person, so the sentence should be rearranged to something like "I will/might have to rack my brains a little to figure out how to get a ‘fair achievement for the prince’." If you do adopt that new suggested phrasing for the rest of the sentence, then I think the "although at most" doesn't fit and should probably be reworded (I don't understand the intent well enough to suggest anything for that). - Cthaeh

	Thus, the young princess wielded in her fervent speech that they should turn him back to his righteous self.		Thus, the young princess wielded in her fervent speech that they should turn him back to his righteous self.

Dohma: replied on comments

2013-09-25T10:59:28Z

replied on comments

Show changes

Cthaeh: /* Suggested revisions and discussion of style */ new section

2013-09-23T02:07:00Z

Suggested revisions and discussion of style: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:07, 23 September 2013
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	:* Also, the impression I got from the raw is that more ether is needed to float in higher, which seems legit; which is why it loses in strength to repel the earth's gravity. Also I'm not entirely sure if the ether gets collected while it's in flight, or if it's collected beforehand and stored in replica-artefacts. I believe it's the latter. I'll look into the explanation again later and see if I can word it better. --[[User:Dohma\|Dohma]] ([[User talk:Dohma\|talk]]) 08:51, 23 August 2013 (CDT)		:* Also, the impression I got from the raw is that more ether is needed to float in higher, which seems legit; which is why it loses in strength to repel the earth's gravity. Also I'm not entirely sure if the ether gets collected while it's in flight, or if it's collected beforehand and stored in replica-artefacts. I believe it's the latter. I'll look into the explanation again later and see if I can word it better. --[[User:Dohma\|Dohma]] ([[User talk:Dohma\|talk]]) 08:51, 23 August 2013 (CDT)

			== Suggested revisions and discussion of style ==

			Here are the sentences I would suggest for further revision. Also, the first two items are examples of matters of general style that I'd like to get your opinions/instructions on. And as always, thanks for the translations, --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:07, 22 September 2013 (CDT)

			<hr>

			'''I'm going to pull these first two out of the proper order to use them as examples to discuss issues of style:'''

			The cavalry and the dragonriders atop the small-sized dragons guarded all directions, while in the centre, surrounded by the soldiers on foot, the imperial and royal family members moved in coaches.
			:*I already deleted a comma after cavalry, but I would also propose rearranging the last half to "while the imperial and royal family members moved in coaches at the centre, surrounded by the soldiers on foot."
			:*This proposed revision is an example of something that I have occasionally edited without bringing up for discussion when I could do so with minimal changes. But since it's technically an issue of style, I wanted to bring it up for discussion before I do so anymore. The stylistic change I've made is rearranging the pieces of the sentence such that the sentence has a more linear structure that doesn't require the use of as many commas. The sentence is technically correct, so such changes are actually a matter of style. But I think sentences that are highly fragmented by commas tend to be unnatural sounding in English. I was under the impression that sentence fragmentation in general is often a remnant of the structure of the sentence in Japanese, but I suppose it could be the intentional style for this project. So my question are: Is the sentence fragmentation an intentional style? And if not, is it alright if I continue to defragment sentences without posting them on the discussion page when I can do so with minimal changes? (Apologies for doing it previously without asking)

			Anyhow, the vehicles that have the ability to suspend above ground and go through the sky on this planet, like the airships and air frigates, aren’t science, but an inheritance from the magic that Zodias gave birth to.
			:*This is another question of style, but in this case I think I've left it as is in my edits thus far. In this sentence, general information is given in the present tense, even though most of the narration is in the past tense. Tense use is always a matter of style, and if I'm not mistaken becomes more complicated in translation because the style of narration and tenses in the original often does not match "typical" usage in English. My impression of the most common English style for third person narration, which is mostly what is used in this project, is that everything is in the past tense. For first person and second person narration, where the narrator is a person in the world of the story, it is more common to use the present tense for general descriptions of the world such as this example. However, the tense use and narration is always a matter of style, and it is not really wrong to do it any particular way. So just to get it explicit guideline for the future, what are your thoughts on the tense for this and other similar general descriptions? I favor past tense for everything, but from the fact you've used present tense so far, I'd guess you prefer it be present but I'm just double checking.

			<hr>

			'''Back to normal revision suggestions:'''

			Ryucown cut off the heads of all the messengers, not even depending on the counsel from his own home country Garbera.
			:*The "not even depending on the counsel" seems a little awkward to me. I would replace it with "disregarding even the counsel" or "rejecting even the counsel".

			And that was the ulterior motive Fedom had. Originally, the written letters had urged him to return to his homeland, Birac. Simon alone had been assigned to be the prince’s support. However, Simon knew the prince’s nature very well. So, because he suspected there were concerns about the prince being a fake at the current campaign, other ‘support’ was necessary.
			:*In the last sentence, I believe the "he suspected" refers to Fedom, but I was a little confused at first because the previous two sentences had Simon as the subject, so my first though was that "he suspected" was referring to Simon. So possibly replacing "he" with "Fedom" would clarify it (if it's not just me that gets confused).

			Although I do hope you’re not doing that to bear the shock received from what happened at Seirin Valley.
			:*I don't think it's a big issue, but "cope with the shock" might be more natural phrasing than "bear the shock"

			she was the image of a beautiful girl in her puberty and whatnot
			:*I feel like "whatnot" is very informal word choice that doesn't match the rest of the translation. I don't really know what to replace it with though.

			With his own country still negotiating with the Garberan side, no more than coming to conclude matters, there was nothing he could decide on without permission.
			:*I wasn't really sure what "no more than coming to conclude matters" meant.

			But foremost, Orba’s anger was at the nobles who controlled lives and destinies as they wished, so that they truly were not treated the same as the people surrounding them.
			:*The last half "so that they truly were ..." seemed a little out of place. There's nothing wrong, so maybe there's nothing to change, it just felt like they didn't link well together.

			They looked left and right in confusion at the prince’s sudden appearance, which he thought wouldn’t be so strange if Kain hadn’t been working on an escape plan for the night, and he laughed inwardly.
			:*The sentence is constructed fine, I was just a little confused by the logic. The normal behavior is to look left and right in confusion, which they did. But then why is that behavior considered strange when Kain is working on an escape plan (which is how I interpreted the middle part of the sentence)?

			Fedom’s anger, seemingly about to faint anytime soon, also directing his glare at Dinn, and Orba was about to dismiss the grand noble from his room.
			:*I didn't quite understand what "seemingly about to faint" meant. In addition, how the sentence is currently constructed has "Fedom's anger" as the subject performing the action "directing his glare", for which "Fedom" would be a better subject.

			Placing gladiators directly under his control as soldiers for instance, although looking back, he couldn’t honestly say that he’d saved from the nobles.
			:*I think it's missing a "them" in "he'd saved ___ from the nobles". But I wasn't sure enough of the meaning to do it myself. I was assuming that it meant although he saved the gladiators from the town's lord, but since he drafted them into the imperial guard, he wasn't really saving them.

			It was decided that they attack the fortress on both sides, where Mephius would advance from the west, and Garbera from the right.
			:*This could easily be perfectly right as is, but Mephius advances from a cardinal direction (west), but Garbera comes from the "right" which undescriptive without a frame of reference. But that could just be how it is in the original.

			''You should just leave everything to Oubary after this. Well, although at most, getting a ‘fair achievement for the prince’ will rattle my brains a little. I think it will be a difficult battle not to lose a single soldier.''
			:*The middle sentence "rattle my brains" seems like it might have a more natural phrasing, but I can't think of one at the moment. The last sentence phrasing seems a little awkward. I interpreted it as something like "I think it will be difficult to get through this battle without losing any soldiers". The structure of the current sentence makes the following interpretation come to mind, "I think it won't be too difficult to go through this battle without losing a single soldier", but that obvious has a completely different meaning from the actual sentence.

			Thus, the young princess wielded in her fervent speech that they should turn him back to his righteous self.
			:*The phrase "wielded in her fervent speech" seemed a little awkward, though it probably reflect the original phrasing. Something that may be a little more natural might be "advocated with her fervent speech". Or as a slightly larger change, replacing with "fervently advocated/argued" would probably be the most natural phrasing.

			“... They will also be prepared to face off against Ende, and they have the opportunity to place Garbera indebted to them with the current campaign.”
			:*"to place Garbera indebted to them" seems to me to be unusual phrasing. I would propose either "to place Garbera in their debt" or "to make Garbera indebted to them".

			“It’s ''still'' fine. Because I was ''still'' waiting for exactly ''this'' moment to arrive.”
			:*I think some of the awkwardness I feel from this sentence comes from the difficulty of what I assume is trying to match the emphasis placed on certain words in the original (the use of the word ''still''). But other than that, I thought "I was ''still'' waiting for exactly ''this'' moment" would be better in the present tense as "I am ''still'' waiting for exactly ''that'' moment". I thought the "moment" Orba is waiting for was when someone tries to kidnap the princess and kill the prince, in which case it hasn't happed yet, so "am still waiting" is more appropriate. The current wording with past tense "was still waiting" makes it sound like the "moment" Orba is referring to has passed.

			For he had fully realized what it was had been lost to him before.
			:* At the least I think it needs a "that" in "what it was ___ had been lost". Or you could delete the "it was".

			However, some of it had little effect as the Mephius’ encampment was further from the fortress.
			:*It's a small issue, but I feel like "much of it had little effect" would fit the context a little better than "some", if that's consistent with the intended meaning.

Dohma: /* Anti-gravity ships confusion: */

2013-08-23T13:51:59Z

Anti-gravity ships confusion:

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:51, 23 August 2013
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	*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
	::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)		::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)

			:* Also, the impression I got from the raw is that more ether is needed to float in higher, which seems legit; which is why it loses in strength to repel the earth's gravity. Also I'm not entirely sure if the ether gets collected while it's in flight, or if it's collected beforehand and stored in replica-artefacts. I believe it's the latter. I'll look into the explanation again later and see if I can word it better. --[[User:Dohma\|Dohma]] ([[User talk:Dohma\|talk]]) 08:51, 23 August 2013 (CDT)

Multipartite: /* Anti-gravity ships confusion: */ Gratitude for the explanation!

2013-08-22T20:15:32Z

Anti-gravity ships confusion:: Gratitude for the explanation!

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:15, 22 August 2013
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	Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
	*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
			::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)

Detalz at 23:55, 21 August 2013

2013-08-21T23:55:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:55, 21 August 2013
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	* I actually translated this very freely because I didn't really understand the above expression in bold, this sounded best in my opinion considering the context.		* I actually translated this very freely because I didn't really understand the above expression in bold, this sounded best in my opinion considering the context.
	::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
			*I'm getting a similar translation, though I would recommend "those who dragged down his feet" or "those who weighed him down" if you want literal, or 'slow him down' for liberal. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

	== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==		== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==

	Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
			*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

Multipartite: /* Anti-gravity ships confusion: */ new section

2013-08-21T23:09:33Z

Anti-gravity ships confusion:: new section

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	* I actually translated this very freely because I didn't really understand the above expression in bold, this sounded best in my opinion considering the context.		* I actually translated this very freely because I didn't really understand the above expression in bold, this sounded best in my opinion considering the context.
	::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		::"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

			== Anti-gravity ships confusion: ==

			Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:51, 23 August 2013
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	*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
	::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)		::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)

			:* Also, the impression I got from the raw is that more ether is needed to float in higher, which seems legit; which is why it loses in strength to repel the earth's gravity. Also I'm not entirely sure if the ether gets collected while it's in flight, or if it's collected beforehand and stored in replica-artefacts. I believe it's the latter. I'll look into the explanation again later and see if I can word it better. --[[User:Dohma\|Dohma]] ([[User talk:Dohma\|talk]]) 08:51, 23 August 2013 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:15, 22 August 2013
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	Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		Given that gravity is weaker the further you get from the planet, and ether flows from the sun, why does the text say 'Of course[...]the more it rises in altitude, the more the power to repel gravity loses its strength.'? This doesn't seem to follow. An explanation would be welcome. puzzlement -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 18:09, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
	*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)		*The ether isn't created from sunlight alone, but formed upon a reaction once it hits and gets absorbed into the waters. You can think of it as mining for oil, where you first mine crude oil, and purify it to a point where it's usable and sell it. The sunlight here is the 'raw material' that can't be used until it hits the waters. Therefore, natural 'ether' emanates from the waters, which the higher the ship flys, the further it gets away from its source. But that is to say, I doubt they have a 'ether generator' that collects surrounding ether, just as they don't have solar panels on the ships to collect energy from the sun. It's more of, ether works more efficiently closer to the conditions it was created....probably :P. It might be better if the sentence was reworded a bit though, "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and vaporized into the sea, had an entirely different nature." --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
			::Ahh, I see! Thank you very much for the explanation! I saw the part about vaporisation, but though it meant losing its properties. Plausibly there's a lot of vaporised ether in the lower atmosphere (down to the ground) like clouds/mist, and like an airplane flying above the clouds trouble occurs if one climbs to less dense strata... For the last sentence, perhaps "He discovered that the mechanism involved a substance that poured down from the sun and took an an entirely different nature when vaporized by the sea."? -[[User:Multipartite\|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite\|talk]]) 15:15, 22 August 2013 (CDT)