Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume2 Chapter3 - Revision history

Detalz at 05:58, 23 December 2013

2013-12-23T05:58:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:58, 23 December 2013
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	The branches of the forest rustled, the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights, as gentle smiles spread across the faces of the guests as they watched the unfolding scene take place.		The branches of the forest rustled, the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights, as gentle smiles spread across the faces of the guests as they watched the unfolding scene take place.
	*The revision changed 'and' to 'as'. I thought it worked better with 'and'. But if keeping 'as', then I'd suggest changing the "guests as they watched" to get rid of the double use of 'as'; one way to do that might be changing to "guests watching the". Also, the ending 'take place' might be a little redundant with 'unfolding', but it's not too cumbersome if you like it as is.		*The revision changed 'and' to 'as'. I thought it worked better with 'and'. But if keeping 'as', then I'd suggest changing the "guests as they watched" to get rid of the double use of 'as'; one way to do that might be changing to "guests watching the". Also, the ending 'take place' might be a little redundant with 'unfolding', but it's not too cumbersome if you like it as is.
			:*Thanks for pointing that out. I missed adding the conjunction 'and' in the sentence as well. I've revised it to "The branches of the forest rustled ''and'' the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights, as gentle smiles spread across the faces of the guests watching the scene unfold before them."


	===Part 3===		===Part 3===
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	:*Changed to "In the past, he was the one who designed the stratagem on the attack on Apta Fortress where General Oubary was present." As a side question, is 'designed the strategem' or 'devised the strategem' more correct? They both seem to work.		:*Changed to "In the past, he was the one who designed the stratagem on the attack on Apta Fortress where General Oubary was present." As a side question, is 'designed the strategem' or 'devised the strategem' more correct? They both seem to work.
	::*I missed this question earlier, and you already revised it, but I'll answer anyways. I agree that both work. For me, 'devised' is more often used when it involves some degree of creativity or cleverness, and 'designed' is a more neutral or general use word. But that could just be unique to my word sense.		::*I missed this question earlier, and you already revised it, but I'll answer anyways. I agree that both work. For me, 'devised' is more often used when it involves some degree of creativity or cleverness, and 'designed' is a more neutral or general use word. But that could just be unique to my word sense.
			:::*No, there ''is'' a difference between the two. I think devise is used in more specific contexts. "Devise a strategem for this specific situation" as opposed to "Design a strategem for this type of situation". Like you said, devise tends to denote a certain degree of ingenuity, so I ultimately went with that. Thanks for confirming.

	And Noue, ''as if evident to say'', “Oh no it’s all over,” had his main force retreat.		And Noue, ''as if evident to say'', “Oh no it’s all over,” had his main force retreat.

Cthaeh at 02:48, 22 December 2013

2013-12-22T02:48:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:48, 22 December 2013
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	:::::: His cheeks flushed pink.		:::::: His cheeks flushed pink.
	::::::-The usage of 'bathe' is slightly different in that it is a passive verb, and is used in the format 'to be bathed in'. 'Bathed in red light', 'Bathed in golden light' are correct as a standalone sentence, but provided a relative clause, 'Bathed in an attractive red/golden(''light'') under the fire lights' can be used and adheres to the 'ellipsing of noun phrases' as mentioned in the link you provided. See the redundancy that would have resulted should 'lights' be mentioned twice, when its meaning is apparent in the sentence? I also feel like I've come across sentences written using this style in the more olden literature. Not that any names are coming up right now, so that doesn't really mean much...		::::::-The usage of 'bathe' is slightly different in that it is a passive verb, and is used in the format 'to be bathed in'. 'Bathed in red light', 'Bathed in golden light' are correct as a standalone sentence, but provided a relative clause, 'Bathed in an attractive red/golden(''light'') under the fire lights' can be used and adheres to the 'ellipsing of noun phrases' as mentioned in the link you provided. See the redundancy that would have resulted should 'lights' be mentioned twice, when its meaning is apparent in the sentence? I also feel like I've come across sentences written using this style in the more olden literature. Not that any names are coming up right now, so that doesn't really mean much...

			The branches of the forest rustled, the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights, as gentle smiles spread across the faces of the guests as they watched the unfolding scene take place.
			*The revision changed 'and' to 'as'. I thought it worked better with 'and'. But if keeping 'as', then I'd suggest changing the "guests as they watched" to get rid of the double use of 'as'; one way to do that might be changing to "guests watching the". Also, the ending 'take place' might be a little redundant with 'unfolding', but it's not too cumbersome if you like it as is.

	===Part 3===		===Part 3===

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	*Wasn't he (Noue) the one who was attacking, and Oubary was defending?		*Wasn't he (Noue) the one who was attacking, and Oubary was defending?
	:*Changed to "In the past, he was the one who designed the stratagem on the attack on Apta Fortress where General Oubary was present." As a side question, is 'designed the strategem' or 'devised the strategem' more correct? They both seem to work.		:*Changed to "In the past, he was the one who designed the stratagem on the attack on Apta Fortress where General Oubary was present." As a side question, is 'designed the strategem' or 'devised the strategem' more correct? They both seem to work.
			::*I missed this question earlier, and you already revised it, but I'll answer anyways. I agree that both work. For me, 'devised' is more often used when it involves some degree of creativity or cleverness, and 'designed' is a more neutral or general use word. But that could just be unique to my word sense.

	And Noue, ''as if evident to say'', “Oh no it’s all over,” had his main force retreat.		And Noue, ''as if evident to say'', “Oh no it’s all over,” had his main force retreat.

Detalz at 02:45, 21 December 2013

2013-12-21T02:45:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:45, 21 December 2013
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	:::Yup, it was a mistranslation. There's still much for me to learn about the ins and outs of Japanese. However, this new translation requires a word I can't quite think of atm. What's a word that means 'a place a person frequents enough to consider home'? I'm thinking 'personal dwelling', but i don't think it's right. Here's the new translation: "The nobles, as guests of the party hosted in this _____, welcomed him."		:::Yup, it was a mistranslation. There's still much for me to learn about the ins and outs of Japanese. However, this new translation requires a word I can't quite think of atm. What's a word that means 'a place a person frequents enough to consider home'? I'm thinking 'personal dwelling', but i don't think it's right. Here's the new translation: "The nobles, as guests of the party hosted in this _____, welcomed him."
	::*To represent frequency or familiarity, you might be able to just put 'favorite' before whatever word. Most of these probably don't fit, but my feeble attempt to help with brainstorming is the following (preceded by 'favorite' if appropriate): haunts, hangouts, establishment, locale, location, mansion, manor, hall, second home/house.		::*To represent frequency or familiarity, you might be able to just put 'favorite' before whatever word. Most of these probably don't fit, but my feeble attempt to help with brainstorming is the following (preceded by 'favorite' if appropriate): haunts, hangouts, establishment, locale, location, mansion, manor, hall, second home/house.
			:::*There are some good suggestions there, that don't exactly fit with the context. A second home would probably be the best so I'll build on that one. "The nobles as guests of the party hosted in this mansion that ''came second'' to their own welcomed him.
			::::The italicized part could be reworded(if there are any ambiguities?) and substituted with 'came as second', 'was second', etc. Or, addition of the word 'familiar' preceding 'mansion' might also help fix it. If you think there's a need to make those changes, just mention it. Otherwise, I'll modify it as I mentioned. Who knew writing was so hard(at least in a style suitable for this novel)....and so completely different from reading.

	The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily. And as they appeared to do so, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.		The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily. And as they appeared to do so, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.
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	:*Ahaha. I made that word up because 'unusual talkativeness' hurt my ears as I typed it out. One other alternative is reworded the sentence(screw keeping noun/verbs intact for every sentence) to "Vileena was unusually talkative, possibly due to the night's darkness." Which one do you like better? (Unless you can think of a noun in place of 'talkativity' besides talkativeness. Closest I could think of was rambling, but it has a slight negative connotation.)		:*Ahaha. I made that word up because 'unusual talkativeness' hurt my ears as I typed it out. One other alternative is reworded the sentence(screw keeping noun/verbs intact for every sentence) to "Vileena was unusually talkative, possibly due to the night's darkness." Which one do you like better? (Unless you can think of a noun in place of 'talkativity' besides talkativeness. Closest I could think of was rambling, but it has a slight negative connotation.)
	::*An alternative is loquaciousness, but I think that's worse; I only mention it because loquacious is an awesome word that I'd probably never use. 'Unusual talkativeness' doesn't particularly hurt my ears, but your alternative also sounds just a good to me.		::*An alternative is loquaciousness, but I think that's worse; I only mention it because loquacious is an awesome word that I'd probably never use. 'Unusual talkativeness' doesn't particularly hurt my ears, but your alternative also sounds just a good to me.
			:::*That's a word I've seen less than I can count. But if I believe loquacious is a word used to describe a trait. In this situation, 'talkative' is a state of being rather than a trait, so unfotunately that word woudln't work.

	And it’s not as if I’ve ''changed as I was in the past''.		And it’s not as if I’ve ''changed as I was in the past''.
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	:*The raws used the word for 'talks/conversation' here, implying that they had a few 'short' exchanges in addition to the one where she asked his condition.		:*The raws used the word for 'talks/conversation' here, implying that they had a few 'short' exchanges in addition to the one where she asked his condition.
	::*I would use 'exchanges' then. To me, a talk/conversation encompasses all comments and exchanges in a given sitting. And multiple talks are delineated by breaks of extended time without conversation.		::*I would use 'exchanges' then. To me, a talk/conversation encompasses all comments and exchanges in a given sitting. And multiple talks are delineated by breaks of extended time without conversation.
			:::*CaM.

	That time he returned from the Saian residence, she had raised the issue about Kaiser and absolutely would not approve it. ''All the more reason to prove she had'' established Mephius as her second home.		That time he returned from the Saian residence, she had raised the issue about Kaiser and absolutely would not approve it. ''All the more reason to prove she had'' established Mephius as her second home.
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	:*I don't see the point of this change.		:*I don't see the point of this change.
	::*I don't recognize or understand "as if evident to say" as a phrase. My suggestion was based on context. Google doesn't give any hits for that phrase, so that means it is a particularly unusual combination of words. If I were to try to parse and understand that phrase by itself, I would have guessed it meant something like "as if it was the obvious thing to say". Perhaps that was the intent, but it was different from my guess based on context.		::*I don't recognize or understand "as if evident to say" as a phrase. My suggestion was based on context. Google doesn't give any hits for that phrase, so that means it is a particularly unusual combination of words. If I were to try to parse and understand that phrase by itself, I would have guessed it meant something like "as if it was the obvious thing to say". Perhaps that was the intent, but it was different from my guess based on context.
			:::*'As if evident to say' is my literary transformation of 'as if obviously saying something along the lines of' ("Oh no, it's all over"). 'As if saying' would seem to be an oversimplification to me, so I'll keep this sentence as is.

	However, the forces situated at Apta who had repelled the previously fierce cavalry assault had grown conceited, and for this very reason, had called back for reinforcements too late.		However, the forces situated at Apta who had repelled the previously fierce cavalry assault had grown conceited, and for this very reason, had called back for reinforcements too late.

Cthaeh at 01:41, 17 December 2013

2013-12-17T01:41:03Z

Detalz at 06:08, 16 December 2013

2013-12-16T06:08:43Z

Show changes

Cthaeh: part 3 suggestions, and replies

2013-12-13T01:24:54Z

part 3 suggestions, and replies

Show changes

Detalz at 08:26, 6 December 2013

2013-12-06T08:26:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:26, 6 December 2013
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	:*Make your own word by modifiying a verb into an adverb by adding 'ing' + 'ly'! The proper way in "How to write English 1.1 for noobs" On a side note, what exactly is supposed to go in the underscore? Would changing 'thought ascertaingly' to 'ascertained' be better? Actually, I'm not even sure if English writing would bother with using 'ascertained' and just go straight with 'thought' instead. I need to read an English book...before I forget all the fine grammar points @_@.		:*Make your own word by modifiying a verb into an adverb by adding 'ing' + 'ly'! The proper way in "How to write English 1.1 for noobs" On a side note, what exactly is supposed to go in the underscore? Would changing 'thought ascertaingly' to 'ascertained' be better? Actually, I'm not even sure if English writing would bother with using 'ascertained' and just go straight with 'thought' instead. I need to read an English book...before I forget all the fine grammar points @_@.
	::*The blank was just for whatever word ended up going there (whether 'acertainingly' or something else).		::*The blank was just for whatever word ended up going there (whether 'acertainingly' or something else).
			:*Oh, I thought you only wanted to suggest changing the word 'ascertainingly'. Changed to 'Vileena ascertained while attending the hosted part..."

	No matter how savage a country Mephius was, there should be those that could not ignore their feelings of opposition towards the emperor’s conduct nonetheless.		No matter how savage a country Mephius was, there should be those that could not ignore their feelings of opposition towards the emperor’s conduct nonetheless.
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	:*Spot is more appropriate, so it's all good. And i wrote more of thinking 'she would try some place else(one destination in mind) and if while traversing there, she came across someone speaking the topic....' So I think this might just be a difference in interpreting the sentence?		:*Spot is more appropriate, so it's all good. And i wrote more of thinking 'she would try some place else(one destination in mind) and if while traversing there, she came across someone speaking the topic....' So I think this might just be a difference in interpreting the sentence?
	::*Your interpretation is valid. My interpretation was biased by what I expected her to be doing. Another alternative for the second part with that new interpretation would be "And if this topic came up somewhere along the way, she would attempt to join in." (I actually didn't think 'spot' was all that appropriate, I just couldn't think of anything better. I like this new one best, but it's also a much more liberal change).		::*Your interpretation is valid. My interpretation was biased by what I expected her to be doing. Another alternative for the second part with that new interpretation would be "And if this topic came up somewhere along the way, she would attempt to join in." (I actually didn't think 'spot' was all that appropriate, I just couldn't think of anything better. I like this new one best, but it's also a much more liberal change).
			:*CaM

	He was showing a magnificent dance with one of the ladies, as the surrounding groups of women threw glares of jealousy and envy.		He was showing a magnificent dance with one of the ladies, as the surrounding groups of women threw glares of jealousy and envy.
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	:*Now I'm confused as to why you brought up 'showing' for revision. What you wrote at the end seems to imply you admit 'showing' in this context is correct? Changed to 'Showing off'		:*Now I'm confused as to why you brought up 'showing' for revision. What you wrote at the end seems to imply you admit 'showing' in this context is correct? Changed to 'Showing off'
	::*I just thought 'showing' was unusual to use there, or perhaps it was merely that it was unexpected for me. However, I couldn't think of an alternative that I liked with such a neutral/passive connotation as 'showing' (it's probably that connotation that made it feel unnatural to me), hence my admitting the difference in my proposed changes.		::*I just thought 'showing' was unusual to use there, or perhaps it was merely that it was unexpected for me. However, I couldn't think of an alternative that I liked with such a neutral/passive connotation as 'showing' (it's probably that connotation that made it feel unnatural to me), hence my admitting the difference in my proposed changes.
			::*Well, reading it a second time, it does strike as a bit unexpected to me. But I think this is a problem with translating passive directly into English. It's not that it's wrong, so much as not commonly used in English writing. I'd actually like Dohma/another translator's opinion on this, and see what a more liberal translator would do. Considering Noue's personality, he likely danced as to 'show off', though the narrative used the verb 'show'(could be seen). Meh, I'll leave it as is for now.

	He offered his greetings if not one second early, and for some reason quickly drew towards the direction of the party.		He offered his greetings if not one second early, and for some reason quickly drew towards the direction of the party.
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	:*Hmm. Changed to "The branches of the forest rustled and the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights as gentle smiles..". Using 'fountain was bathed' changes the feel of the sentence and makes it seem somewhat less....romantic/lively.		:*Hmm. Changed to "The branches of the forest rustled and the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights as gentle smiles..". Using 'fountain was bathed' changes the feel of the sentence and makes it seem somewhat less....romantic/lively.
	::*I think that change still has the problem that 'golden' is an adjective, but it isn't followed by a noun to modify. That's why my revisions changed it to either 'gold' (it's own noun) or added the noun 'light'.		::*I think that change still has the problem that 'golden' is an adjective, but it isn't followed by a noun to modify. That's why my revisions changed it to either 'gold' (it's own noun) or added the noun 'light'.
			:::*Oh, so that was the point. Golden is a noun in this sentence. Refer to http://www.learnersdictionary.com/blog.php?action=ViewBlogArticle&ba_id=33 for some more common examples. Verbs can also be modified this way, i.e. ''Let me buy you a drink'', or ''He scored a win'' in which case verbs were changed into nouns. It's just this method of nomalization isn't quite as often used with colors, which is why you found it weird.

	===Part 3===		===Part 3===

	tbc		tbc

Cthaeh at 03:34, 6 December 2013

2013-12-06T03:34:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:34, 6 December 2013
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	*I didn't understand the italicized sentence. Though this is suppose to be just the tail of the conversation, so maybe its meaning is supposed to be unclear.		*I didn't understand the italicized sentence. Though this is suppose to be just the tail of the conversation, so maybe its meaning is supposed to be unclear.
	:*It was also strangely worded in the raws. All this formal/olden/noble wording is actually a pain to try to translate into English. The modern equivalent would be "the search is sure to take place within Mephius"		:*It was also strangely worded in the raws. All this formal/olden/noble wording is actually a pain to try to translate into English. The modern equivalent would be "the search is sure to take place within Mephius"
			::*OK, it's probably good as is for olden style wording. I just wasn't sure how much of that sentence we were supposed to understand (ie the "search" is supposed to be unknown).

	“A cuirass, sandals, and bangles.”<nowiki><!--Should I word it “Get me a cuirass…” to make it more obvious that it’s Orba’s proposal?”--></nowiki>		“A cuirass, sandals, and bangles.”<nowiki><!--Should I word it “Get me a cuirass…” to make it more obvious that it’s Orba’s proposal?”--></nowiki>
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	Vileena thought ascertainingly, in the hosted party held at the Moonlight Palace this evening.		Vileena thought ascertainingly, in the hosted party held at the Moonlight Palace this evening.
	*"ascertainingly" isn't a word, even though it's something that people would probably get the gist of. 'perceptively' is a somewhat close alternative that could be used. Also, this sentence just ~~sound~~ strange, though I understand it's meant to transition us from Vileena's dress fitting to the party (without doing the typical break with extra lines). I want to say "Vileena ~~though~~ ___ during/(while attending) the hosted party ..." sounds a little better, but I'm not entirely sure it would for anyone but me.		*"ascertainingly" isn't a word, even though it's something that people would probably get the gist of. 'perceptively' is a somewhat close alternative that could be used. Also, this sentence just sounded a little strange, though I understand it's meant to transition us from Vileena's dress fitting to the party (without doing the typical break with extra lines). I want to say "Vileena thought ___ during/(while attending) the hosted party ..." sounds a little better, but I'm not entirely sure it would for anyone but me.
	:*Make your own word by modifiying a verb into an adverb by adding 'ing' + 'ly'! The proper way in "How to write English 1.1 for noobs" On a side note, what exactly is supposed to go in the underscore? Would changing 'thought ascertaingly' to 'ascertained' be better? Actually, I'm not even sure if English writing would bother with using 'ascertained' and just go straight with 'thought' instead. I need to read an English book...before I forget all the fine grammar points @_@.		:*Make your own word by modifiying a verb into an adverb by adding 'ing' + 'ly'! The proper way in "How to write English 1.1 for noobs" On a side note, what exactly is supposed to go in the underscore? Would changing 'thought ascertaingly' to 'ascertained' be better? Actually, I'm not even sure if English writing would bother with using 'ascertained' and just go straight with 'thought' instead. I need to read an English book...before I forget all the fine grammar points @_@.
			::*The blank was just for whatever word ended up going there (whether 'acertainingly' or something else).

	No matter how savage a country Mephius was, there should be those that could not ignore their feelings of opposition towards the emperor’s conduct nonetheless.		No matter how savage a country Mephius was, there should be those that could not ignore their feelings of opposition towards the emperor’s conduct nonetheless.
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	*I would have expected the first sentence to be something like "She decided to move about." (something that implies she is constantly moving and listening for 'this topic', rather than just changing one location to another single location). Also, this is more minor, but I might have written the first part of the second sentence as something like "And if this topic came up at some spot, she ...".		*I would have expected the first sentence to be something like "She decided to move about." (something that implies she is constantly moving and listening for 'this topic', rather than just changing one location to another single location). Also, this is more minor, but I might have written the first part of the second sentence as something like "And if this topic came up at some spot, she ...".
	:*Spot is more appropriate, so it's all good. And i wrote more of thinking 'she would try some place else(one destination in mind) and if while traversing there, she came across someone speaking the topic....' So I think this might just be a difference in interpreting the sentence?		:*Spot is more appropriate, so it's all good. And i wrote more of thinking 'she would try some place else(one destination in mind) and if while traversing there, she came across someone speaking the topic....' So I think this might just be a difference in interpreting the sentence?
			::*Your interpretation is valid. My interpretation was biased by what I expected her to be doing. Another alternative for the second part with that new interpretation would be "And if this topic came up somewhere along the way, she would attempt to join in." (I actually didn't think 'spot' was all that appropriate, I just couldn't think of anything better. I like this new one best, but it's also a much more liberal change).

	He was showing a magnificent dance with one of the ladies, as the surrounding groups of women threw glares of jealousy and envy.		He was showing a magnificent dance with one of the ladies, as the surrounding groups of women threw glares of jealousy and envy.
	*Suggested revision of "showing" to "performing" or "showing off". Though both of those have a slightly different meanings from 'show', so maybe it wouldn't work.		*Suggested revision of "showing" to "performing" or "showing off". Though both of those have a slightly different meanings from 'show', so maybe it wouldn't work.
	:*Now I'm confused as to why you brought up 'showing' for revision. What you wrote at the end seems to imply you admit 'showing' in this context is correct? Changed to 'Showing off'		:*Now I'm confused as to why you brought up 'showing' for revision. What you wrote at the end seems to imply you admit 'showing' in this context is correct? Changed to 'Showing off'
			::*I just thought 'showing' was unusual to use there, or perhaps it was merely that it was unexpected for me. However, I couldn't think of an alternative that I liked with such a neutral/passive connotation as 'showing' (it's probably that connotation that made it feel unnatural to me), hence my admitting the difference in my proposed changes.

	He offered his greetings if not one second early, and for some reason quickly drew towards the direction of the party.		He offered his greetings if not one second early, and for some reason quickly drew towards the direction of the party.
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	*This ties in to my earlier uncertainty about whether Ineli's dancing was self-taught. If she's not self-taught, then shouldn't she be the one sending for tutors? If she is self-taught, I still wouldn't expect tutors to send for her, but I guess the tutors want to be taught by her so they can teach their students?		*This ties in to my earlier uncertainty about whether Ineli's dancing was self-taught. If she's not self-taught, then shouldn't she be the one sending for tutors? If she is self-taught, I still wouldn't expect tutors to send for her, but I guess the tutors want to be taught by her so they can teach their students?
	:*I'll double-check the raws. I think they just wanted the privilege to be the one to educate the princess?		:*I'll double-check the raws. I think they just wanted the privilege to be the one to educate the princess?
			::*OK, I guess that makes sense.

	During tea talks, the subject of their gossip would shift towards Vileena. And, whilst she stayed in the same country, her situation of being holed up in the women’s chambers was strangely exaggerated. Today, they passed by each other and exchanged glances, and with the slightest of efforts Vileena caught the attention of her surroundings, the very thought of which Ineli could not stomach.		During tea talks, the subject of their gossip would shift towards Vileena. And, whilst she stayed in the same country, her situation of being holed up in the women’s chambers was strangely exaggerated. Today, they passed by each other and exchanged glances, and with the slightest of efforts Vileena caught the attention of her surroundings, the very thought of which Ineli could not stomach.
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	:- the fountain '''was''' bathed in an attractive '''gold''' under '''the light of''' the fires		:- the fountain '''was''' bathed in an attractive '''gold''' under '''the light of''' the fires
	:*Hmm. Changed to "The branches of the forest rustled and the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights as gentle smiles..". Using 'fountain was bathed' changes the feel of the sentence and makes it seem somewhat less....romantic/lively.		:*Hmm. Changed to "The branches of the forest rustled and the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fire lights as gentle smiles..". Using 'fountain was bathed' changes the feel of the sentence and makes it seem somewhat less....romantic/lively.
			::*I think that change still has the problem that 'golden' is an adjective, but it isn't followed by a noun to modify. That's why my revisions changed it to either 'gold' (it's own noun) or added the noun 'light'.

	===Part 3===		===Part 3===

	tbc		tbc

Detalz at 21:42, 5 December 2013

2013-12-05T21:42:03Z

Show changes

Cthaeh: suggested sentences for revision: parts 1 and 2

2013-12-04T03:15:26Z

suggested sentences for revision: parts 1 and 2

New page

==Suggested sentences for revision==

Completed edits for the entire chapter and added suggested revisions for parts 1 and 2 below. I'm still in the process of writing up suggested revisions for part 3 and will post them at a later date. And the list is looking shorter than last time ;). Also, I'm not sure how many of these would lend themselves to it, but I can make the changes that are 'CaM' or written out explicitly to save you time if you'd prefer. I think my selectivity in the level of importance for suggestions has shifted over the course of all of the chapters, let me know if you'd prefer more selective (and therefore shorter) lists. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 21:15, 3 December 2013 (CST)

===Part 1===

he would immediately direct his eyes at the door, to find that it never opened.
*Suggested revision: "... eyes at the door, only to find that it hadn't opened."

His eyes tore straight up, and his lips turned upwards, to reveal his canine teeth.
*I wasn't sure what "His eyes tore straight up" means. Also, I would consider replacing "His eyes" with "Orba's eyes" just because the main subject of the previous sentence (and the previous "his") was Dinn.

In that time, the light-footed gladiator Aeson climbed over the fencings and walls and aligned against the balcony of the room Oubary was situated in.
*Suggested change to "and aligned himself against".

Aeson was a born pirate from the northern Zongan seas and experienced in the raising and lowering of the mast.
*"was a born pirate" implies that he has a natural aptitude that either did not come from experience, or goes beyond his level of experience as a pirate. While that's not necessarily wrong, I thought it was a strange statement to make in context. I would have expected it to just be "had been a pirate" or "was born a pirate" to say that he was experienced as a pirate.
*I also thought "raising and lowering of the mast" was out of place with the context. Something like "climbing up and down the mast" is what I was expecting. However, if that's what's in the original, then that's what it should be.

General Oubary is a general long serving Mephius.
*Suggested revision: General Oubary is a general that has long served Mephius.

Rather, because the matter with Kaiser exists, Noue will not have to work for his accomplishments, right?”
*I think "accomplishments" doesn't quite fit, in part because they haven't happened yet. Something like 'goals', 'tasks', or 'objectives' seems to fit better for me. However, when I use Word's thesaurus on 'accomplishments', it gives a different definition than the plural of 'accomplishment'. That definition is something like 'endeavours', which would fit the context a little better here. However, I wasn't able to find that definition in my dictionary and obviously wasn't aware of it before, so I'm a little hesitant about it.

“Already in Mephius, hmm. You are exactly right. ''To this end, the search will also determinedly be met within Mephius.'' Of course…so this was Noue’s aim. The sword-slaves are an unfortunate bunch. They are the same as children provoked by wicked adults into fruitless opposition.”
*I didn't understand the italicized sentence. Though this is suppose to be just the tail of the conversation, so maybe its meaning is supposed to be unclear.

“A cuirass, sandals, and bangles.”<nowiki></nowiki>
*re your question: I understood that it was Orba saying it.

The guard at the gate saw Orba’s mask and bowed. He wasn’t a man with much of a prominent personality, but in accordance to the rules, performed an inspection for weapons after which he granted permission for him to enter.
*I wasn't really sure what not being a "prominent personality" meant for the guard. As I understand it, "prominent personality" would refer to someone who was well known or famous. But it seems strange to bother saying that guard at the gate is not famous since I would consider that obvious or implicitly expected without saying it, so I thought there may have been a different intended meaning.

No sooner than he had entered the garden, all the men and women called out to him. The name and appearance of the gladiator said to have defeated Ryucown had become well-known. ''The nobles had mostly hosted parties at their own homes and invited those they wanted to come.''
*The last sentence seems out of place. I would have expected it to be saying something along the lines of 'the nobles had invited Orba the gladiator to the parties they hosted in their homes'.

The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily. And as they appeared to do so, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.
*The "And as they appeared... ," seems redundant with the "The two seemed to be" in the previous sentence. Suggested revision to the following
:- The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily, however, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.

===Part 2===

If I don’t make my own foothold, ''no progress will make way.''”
*Italicized part seemed a little strange. Assuming it doesn't distort the intended focus/meaning, I would have used something like "I will not make any progress".

''If such things were made to pass'', even the country’s management would spiral out of control.
*The italicized portion might sound more natural as "things were allowed to pass" or "things came to pass". However, I can see how those might be diverging from the intended focus.

Vileena thought ascertainingly, in the hosted party held at the Moonlight Palace this evening.
*"ascertainingly" isn't a word, even though it's something that people would probably get the gist of. 'perceptively' is a somewhat close alternative that could be used. Also, this sentence just sound strange, though I understand it's meant to transition us from Vileena's dress fitting to the party (without doing the typical break with extra lines). I want to say "Vileena though ___ during/(while attending) the hosted party ..." sounds a little better, but I'm not entirely sure it would for anyone but me.

No matter how savage a country Mephius was, there should be those that could not ignore their feelings of opposition towards the emperor’s conduct nonetheless.
*I'm not as sure on this one, but I thought "nonetheless" might be redundant with the starting "No mater how", and could be deleted.

''I will make sure of each and every one of their positions and views, and so that I may use it to somehow benefit Garbera, I must determine my own standing.''
*The sentence's current structure implies to me that she is saying she will either use her own standing to the benefit of Garbera, or that she must first determine her own standing before she can make use of the information (positions and views). Not necessarily anything wrong, I just don't quite understand why knowing her position needs to relate to the information gathered.

She decided for a change in location. And if at some place this topic would come up, she would attempt to join in.
*I would have expected the first sentence to be something like "She decided to move about." (something that implies she is constantly moving and listening for 'this topic', rather than just changing one location to another single location). Also, this is more minor, but I might have written the first part of the second sentence as something like "And if this topic came up at some spot, she ...".

He was showing a magnificent dance with one of the ladies, as the surrounding groups of women threw glares of jealousy and envy.
*Suggested revision of "showing" to "performing" or "showing off". Though both of those have a slightly different meanings from 'show', so maybe it wouldn't work.

He offered his greetings if not one second early, and for some reason quickly drew towards the direction of the party.
*"if not one second early" seems a little strange; I think it means he did it quickly? Also, the second half of the sentence implies to me that he left Vileena (left in the direction of the main party). However, he later joins in the conversation with Ineli (meaning he's still there), so I was a little confused on the later half.

“Ah, could it be I’ve yet to introduce to my elder sister?
*Suggested "I've yet to '''be introduced''' to" or "I've yet to introduce '''myself''' to".

I felt it would be better to exchange fellow greetings as early as possible, for the both of us.”
*Suggested removal of "fellow". I thought "exchange greetings" already contains the context added by "fellow".

(Ineli) “Just now, I have had the pleasure of entertaining a dance with Lord Salzantes ... // (Vileena)... “I have had the pleasure of witnessing this a moment ago, but Princess Ineli is extremely skilled.
*Ineli's "I have had" could be reduced to "I had", but it's actually fine as is. Vileena's "I have had" would sound more natural/correct as "I had". However, I thought it was possible this was intentionally done to represent Vileena mimicking Ineli's style of speech. If that's the case, then it should probably be left as is.

“My, is that so. So that’s how it is. Well, it’s better not to fret over it. I have been taught by a dancing instructor since I was three. That instructor is a master dancer of the Arion imperial court. That person has been praised with having talent at the age of three.”
*The last sentence seemed strange, I didn't quite know what to make of it. I thought it might have seemed strange because Ineli is saying that she has never been taught (she is her own instructor) in a conceited and convoluted manner? If that's the case, then maybe things should be left as is (I can't think of any specific changes to make).

As Ineli showed her approval, she intently watched Vileena, whose eyes were screwed up.
*I wasn't sure exactly what it means for someone's eyes to be screwed up. My guess, which is somewhat corroborated by google, is that it is or is similar to the state of suppressing tears where the muscles under the eye and eyelids scrunch together. So I'm suspicious this is just a random lapse in my vocabulary and that everything is fine, but I'm just double checking.

She was sent for not only by tutors within Mephius, but also from those around the world of different varieties of styles, and was confident in her own sense of style.
*This ties in to my earlier uncertainty about whether Ineli's dancing was self-taught. If she's not self-taught, then shouldn't she be the one sending for tutors? If she is self-taught, I still wouldn't expect tutors to send for her, but I guess the tutors want to be taught by her so they can teach their students?

During tea talks, the subject of their gossip would shift towards Vileena. And, whilst she stayed in the same country, her situation of being holed up in the women’s chambers was strangely exaggerated. Today, they passed by each other and exchanged glances, and with the slightest of efforts Vileena caught the attention of her surroundings, the very thought of which Ineli could not stomach.
*The last two sentences, particularly the last, seemed a little awkward to me. Though I'm having trouble coming up with a suggested revision right at the moment. If nothing is apparent to you, then I suggest skipping this. I might come back and add a suggestion when I get to finishing part 3.

and breathes of sighs leaked out from the observing members
*Suggestion that "breathes of sighs" can be reduced to "sighs" as more natural sounding.

Stealthy giggles were sneaked from the surroundings.
*Suggested revision to "Stealthy giggles sneaked out from the surroundings."

And then using the rotation of her hips, hurled the startledly hopping Baton.
*"startledly" is something else that's not an actual word even though most people likely understand the intent. "the startled, hopping Baton" would be a more technically correct alternative. Also, this sentence is technically missing a noun (she), but it works ok carrying over from the previous sentence if you want to leave it as is.

Baton fell face flat onto the floor.
*"fell face first" or "fell flat on his face" might be more common phrasing than "face flat." Though, "face flat" does have a reasonable number of google hits so maybe it's not too uncommon even though it seems off to me.

and donned a mask was the once former gladiator.
*"once" could be removed, unless that unusual pairing of "once former" was intentional.

The branches of the forest rustled, the fountain bathed in an attractive golden under the fires, and gentle smiles spread across the faces of the guests as they watched the unfolding scene take place.
*Two suggested possible revisions:
:- the fountain '''was''' bathed in an attractive golden '''light''' under the fires
:- the fountain '''was''' bathed in an attractive '''gold''' under '''the light of''' the fires

===Part 3===

tbc

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:41, 17 December 2013
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	:*I also thought it was out of place(in the raws too). It's a supposed transition, stating how usually, no one dressed as how Orba was and with an upbringing such as his, would usually join them in a party and how it was unexcpected and all. I'll check later and add into a new line if anything.		:*I also thought it was out of place(in the raws too). It's a supposed transition, stating how usually, no one dressed as how Orba was and with an upbringing such as his, would usually join them in a party and how it was unexcpected and all. I'll check later and add into a new line if anything.
	:::Yup, it was a mistranslation. There's still much for me to learn about the ins and outs of Japanese. However, this new translation requires a word I can't quite think of atm. What's a word that means 'a place a person frequents enough to consider home'? I'm thinking 'personal dwelling', but i don't think it's right. Here's the new translation: "The nobles, as guests of the party hosted in this _____, welcomed him."		:::Yup, it was a mistranslation. There's still much for me to learn about the ins and outs of Japanese. However, this new translation requires a word I can't quite think of atm. What's a word that means 'a place a person frequents enough to consider home'? I'm thinking 'personal dwelling', but i don't think it's right. Here's the new translation: "The nobles, as guests of the party hosted in this _____, welcomed him."
			::*To represent frequency or familiarity, you might be able to just put 'favorite' before whatever word. Most of these probably don't fit, but my feeble attempt to help with brainstorming is the following (preceded by 'favorite' if appropriate): haunts, hangouts, establishment, locale, location, mansion, manor, hall, second home/house.

	The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily. And as they appeared to do so, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.		The two seemed to be facing each other and chatting happily. And as they appeared to do so, open hostility could be seen within those two pairs of eyes.
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	“''You’ve been one since what happened at Zaim Fortress'', haven’t you? For a hero to be in such a place by himself isn’t right. Why don’t you go over there and have a toast with everyone?”		“''You’ve been one since what happened at Zaim Fortress'', haven’t you? For a hero to be in such a place by himself isn’t right. Why don’t you go over there and have a toast with everyone?”
	*In the first sentence, I think "one" refers to 'a hero' based on its use in the second sentence? If so, I suggest replacing "one" with "a hero" to clarify.		*In the first sentence, I think "one" refers to 'a hero' based on its use in the second sentence? If so, I suggest replacing "one" with "a hero" to clarify.
	:*Yea, that was how the book worded it. So just a question before I decide to change it the way you mentioned. If I slightly modified the second sentence to start with "For one as a hero", would it fix this obscurity?		:*Yea, that was how the book worded it. So just a question before I decide to change it the way you mentioned. If I slightly modified the second sentence to start with "For one as a hero", would it fix this obscurity?
			::*Even though I asked for clarification, the overall obscurity isn't that big of an issue, so the second sentence may not need to be changed. What actually caught me while reading was the first sentence and the fact that 'the one' is used before 'a hero'; so I read the first sentence without understanding what 'the one' referred to, until I got to the second sentence. That was why my suggestion was to replace 'the one' with 'a hero', so that it was given explicitly in the first sentence (the second sentence's 'a hero' could be changed to 'one' in that case, or just left as is). I don't know how that compares to the original; if that lack of information in the first sentence is a result of differing sentence structure or styles of reading order between the two languages.

	Vileena’s unusual talkativity might have been due to the night’s darkness.		Vileena’s unusual talkativity might have been due to the night’s darkness.
	*'talkativity' is another one of those words that aren't quite actual words, but everyone would know what it means so it's not that important. 'Talkativeness' could be a replacement if you wanted to replace it.		*'talkativity' is another one of those words that aren't quite actual words, but everyone would know what it means so it's not that important. 'Talkativeness' could be a replacement if you wanted to replace it.
	:*Ahaha. I made that word up because 'unusual talkativeness' hurt my ears as I typed it out. One other alternative is reworded the sentence(screw keeping noun/verbs intact for every sentence) to "Vileena was unusually talkative, possibly due to the night's darkness." Which one do you like better? (Unless you can think of a noun in place of 'talkativity' besides talkativeness. Closest I could think of was rambling, but it has a slight negative connotation.)		:*Ahaha. I made that word up because 'unusual talkativeness' hurt my ears as I typed it out. One other alternative is reworded the sentence(screw keeping noun/verbs intact for every sentence) to "Vileena was unusually talkative, possibly due to the night's darkness." Which one do you like better? (Unless you can think of a noun in place of 'talkativity' besides talkativeness. Closest I could think of was rambling, but it has a slight negative connotation.)
			::*An alternative is loquaciousness, but I think that's worse; I only mention it because loquacious is an awesome word that I'd probably never use. 'Unusual talkativeness' doesn't particularly hurt my ears, but your alternative also sounds just a good to me.

	And it’s not as if I’ve ''changed as I was in the past''.		And it’s not as if I’ve ''changed as I was in the past''.
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	*'hurrily' as another not actual word. 'Hastily' or 'quickly' are some alternatives if you wanted to change it.		*'hurrily' as another not actual word. 'Hastily' or 'quickly' are some alternatives if you wanted to change it.
	:*Changed to "He hurried Dinn to quickly help him change his clothes." (Question: Does adding 'quickly' make it too redundant here? Added it for a sense of urgency, but....the sentences I write tend to be overly redundant quite often, so just for a 2nd opinion)		:*Changed to "He hurried Dinn to quickly help him change his clothes." (Question: Does adding 'quickly' make it too redundant here? Added it for a sense of urgency, but....the sentences I write tend to be overly redundant quite often, so just for a 2nd opinion)
			::*It's a little redundant, but I don't think it's that bad, so it's probably fine.

	In the end, with only two or three harmless talks, Vileena immediately stood up from her seat.		In the end, with only two or three harmless talks, Vileena immediately stood up from her seat.
	*Suggested change of "talks" to "comments".		*Suggested change of "talks" to "comments".
	:*The raws used the word for 'talks/conversation' here, implying that they had a few 'short' exchanges in addition to the one where she asked his condition.		:*The raws used the word for 'talks/conversation' here, implying that they had a few 'short' exchanges in addition to the one where she asked his condition.
			::*I would use 'exchanges' then. To me, a talk/conversation encompasses all comments and exchanges in a given sitting. And multiple talks are delineated by breaks of extended time without conversation.

	That time he returned from the Saian residence, she had raised the issue about Kaiser and absolutely would not approve it. ''All the more reason to prove she had'' established Mephius as her second home.		That time he returned from the Saian residence, she had raised the issue about Kaiser and absolutely would not approve it. ''All the more reason to prove she had'' established Mephius as her second home.
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	*Suggesting starting sentence with "Away from ...". Also, in the second sentence, I'm not sure what it means to say that a building (I'm actually not sure whether it's supposed to be the outer palace or the tower) is 'near the ground'. My interpretation that I consider the likeliest is that the small tower was part of the larger building of the 'outer palace', and the small tower was near ground level. If that's the case I suggest "situated near ground level" and also moving that segment to the end of the sentence.		*Suggesting starting sentence with "Away from ...". Also, in the second sentence, I'm not sure what it means to say that a building (I'm actually not sure whether it's supposed to be the outer palace or the tower) is 'near the ground'. My interpretation that I consider the likeliest is that the small tower was part of the larger building of the 'outer palace', and the small tower was near ground level. If that's the case I suggest "situated near ground level" and also moving that segment to the end of the sentence.
	:*CaM. To the second comment, you mean, "In the outer palace stood a similarly small tower situated near ground level"?		:*CaM. To the second comment, you mean, "In the outer palace stood a similarly small tower situated near ground level"?
			::*Yes, that would be my suggestion for the second sentence.

	... he had gone out of his way to volunteer as an envoy for Mephius’ founding anniversary. His country had also agreed it. He was the first to charge past the others in following up on the discussion as to the assignment of the congratulatory envoy.		... he had gone out of his way to volunteer as an envoy for Mephius’ founding anniversary. His country had also agreed it. He was the first to charge past the others in following up on the discussion as to the assignment of the congratulatory envoy.
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	*Suggesting changing italicized portion to "as if saying".		*Suggesting changing italicized portion to "as if saying".
	:*I don't see the point of this change.		:*I don't see the point of this change.
			::*I don't recognize or understand "as if evident to say" as a phrase. My suggestion was based on context. Google doesn't give any hits for that phrase, so that means it is a particularly unusual combination of words. If I were to try to parse and understand that phrase by itself, I would have guessed it meant something like "as if it was the obvious thing to say". Perhaps that was the intent, but it was different from my guess based on context.

	However, the forces situated at Apta who had repelled the previously fierce cavalry assault had grown conceited, and for this very reason, had called back for reinforcements too late.		However, the forces situated at Apta who had repelled the previously fierce cavalry assault had grown conceited, and for this very reason, had called back for reinforcements too late.