Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume2 Chapter5 - Revision history

Detalz at 02:14, 2 February 2014

2014-02-02T02:14:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 2 February 2014
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	:::-I thought ‘possibly’ was fine where it is. I’m not an expert at dissecting sentences and describing them with actual grammar rules, but it seems fine to me. It’s also a commonly used (based on google hits of “possibly even more”), though that’s not an absolute guarantee.		:::-I thought ‘possibly’ was fine where it is. I’m not an expert at dissecting sentences and describing them with actual grammar rules, but it seems fine to me. It’s also a commonly used (based on google hits of “possibly even more”), though that’s not an absolute guarantee.

			:*No, I will not switch 'And' with 'Although'. I will slightly rework the sentence in my edits, but switching their uses affects the flow of the passage, and not just the single sentence. Also, as Ctaeth mentioned, it is perfectly fine to start a sentence with 'And'. It's a misconception that teachers never correct after themselves. This rule is only meant to apply to a classroom setting and professional articles of writing, that may include newspaper articles, scientific papers, critiques, etc. However, it is the opposite in creative writing, and starting sentences with 'And' can be considered a style in itself. Possibly is fine where it is. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 20:14, 1 February 2014 (CST)

	===Part 2===		===Part 2===

Cthaeh at 01:00, 1 February 2014

2014-02-01T01:00:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:00, 1 February 2014
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	* And also isn't a sentence. I assume this is a type but more than that the syntax seems off to me. I suggest an alternative syntax " Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. ''Although, possibly catching more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell.'' I believe the line is trying to express that Vileena presence is more eye catching so although" as a translation phrase would express this better than "and also". Another note, it's usually frowned upon in to start a sentence with "And". There are special circumstances that allow the usage of And but it's hardly ever use in such a way. "And" is conjunction word that in the general sense connects ideas, meaning it's usually some in the middle of a sentence.. Also, the adverb "possibly" is incorrectly place in the sentence. This is a syntax error that reversed the order. Good job translator.		* And also isn't a sentence. I assume this is a type but more than that the syntax seems off to me. I suggest an alternative syntax " Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. ''Although, possibly catching more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell.'' I believe the line is trying to express that Vileena presence is more eye catching so although" as a translation phrase would express this better than "and also". Another note, it's usually frowned upon in to start a sentence with "And". There are special circumstances that allow the usage of And but it's hardly ever use in such a way. "And" is conjunction word that in the general sense connects ideas, meaning it's usually some in the middle of a sentence.. Also, the adverb "possibly" is incorrectly place in the sentence. This is a syntax error that reversed the order. Good job translator.

			:*Cthaeh: There are multiple points here, so I’m going to break up my comments by topic
			:::-The “And also” is followed by a comma in the chapter, not a period as shown above, so that by itself isn’t an issue
			:::-I would say “And also” and “Although” could have slightly different connotations, but in this case I think they’re effectively identical given the non-exclusive relationship between the two ideas. “Although” does feel a little smoother to me, so I’m not opposed to changing it.
			:::-I disagree that starting sentences with “And” (or “But”) requires special circumstances. I actually gave nearly the exact same opinion you did in a v1c1 discussion; however I changed my mind after reading a few discussion on the internet how it was a common misconception. I think teachers often start out teaching that, because it’s easy to overuse those to start sentences, and then that carries over into a lasting misconception. I think this falls under the general issue of overusing any sentence structure will detract from the overall quality. And the fact that many people do view it negatively is another reason to not overuse it. But I don’t think it needs to be excluded as a viable sentence structure.
			:::-I thought ‘possibly’ was fine where it is. I’m not an expert at dissecting sentences and describing them with actual grammar rules, but it seems fine to me. It’s also a commonly used (based on google hits of “possibly even more”), though that’s not an absolute guarantee.

	===Part 2===		===Part 2===
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	::*The reason I didn’t like entail is because I thought entail means something is expected to happen (the google dictionary definition uses the phrase “involve (something) as a necessary or inevitable part or consequence”). I would say that ‘meeting’ and ‘catching’ are necessary parts of the guard job, they just grew lax because it never happened. That was my reasoning behind preferring ‘accustomed’, but I’ll leave it at that if you consider it a matter of preference.		::*The reason I didn’t like entail is because I thought entail means something is expected to happen (the google dictionary definition uses the phrase “involve (something) as a necessary or inevitable part or consequence”). I would say that ‘meeting’ and ‘catching’ are necessary parts of the guard job, they just grew lax because it never happened. That was my reasoning behind preferring ‘accustomed’, but I’ll leave it at that if you consider it a matter of preference.
	:::*Ah, I get where you're coming from and you make a good point. But I still don't think usage of 'entail' in this sentence is wrong per say. Let's avoid a google dictionary definition, since I find they tend to generalize a bit too much. Here is Merriam's definition: 'to impose, involve, '''or''' imply as a necessary accompaniment '''or''' result'. Entail implies a 'direct' involvement with said affair. What you are confusing here is the 'generalized' duties of a guard, and the duties of the guard in this specific case in question. Yes, a guard duty entails them to apprehend suspicious persons. However, the guard duty does not entail them to the apprehensions of suspicious persons, since they cannot perform an apprehension if no such individual exists in the first place. So this is just a slight play of words that enables me to use 'entail' in my opinion. And....well, I guess I'll add the edits after I finish chapter 6....Almost done....at least I wish I was.		:::*Ah, I get where you're coming from and you make a good point. But I still don't think usage of 'entail' in this sentence is wrong per say. Let's avoid a google dictionary definition, since I find they tend to generalize a bit too much. Here is Merriam's definition: 'to impose, involve, '''or''' imply as a necessary accompaniment '''or''' result'. Entail implies a 'direct' involvement with said affair. What you are confusing here is the 'generalized' duties of a guard, and the duties of the guard in this specific case in question. Yes, a guard duty entails them to apprehend suspicious persons. However, the guard duty does not entail them to the apprehensions of suspicious persons, since they cannot perform an apprehension if no such individual exists in the first place. So this is just a slight play of words that enables me to use 'entail' in my opinion. And....well, I guess I'll add the edits after I finish chapter 6....Almost done....at least I wish I was.
			::::*(Generic fan comment) Yay, Chapter 6!

Tasear: /* Part 1 */

2014-01-31T09:38:30Z

Part 1

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:38, 31 January 2014
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	*I’m not sure what ‘upfront’ means here. Perhaps the same as ‘in person’? But even then, it might be unnecessary.		*I’m not sure what ‘upfront’ means here. Perhaps the same as ‘in person’? But even then, it might be unnecessary.
	:*Good point. Lots of repetitive details in Japanese writing when translating...Removed.		:*Good point. Lots of repetitive details in Japanese writing when translating...Removed.

			''Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. And also. having caught possibly even more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell. ''

			* And also isn't a sentence. I assume this is a type but more than that the syntax seems off to me. I suggest an alternative syntax " Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. ''Although, possibly catching more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell.'' I believe the line is trying to express that Vileena presence is more eye catching so although" as a translation phrase would express this better than "and also". Another note, it's usually frowned upon in to start a sentence with "And". There are special circumstances that allow the usage of And but it's hardly ever use in such a way. "And" is conjunction word that in the general sense connects ideas, meaning it's usually some in the middle of a sentence.. Also, the adverb "possibly" is incorrectly place in the sentence. This is a syntax error that reversed the order. Good job translator.

	===Part 2===		===Part 2===

Detalz at 06:08, 31 January 2014

2014-01-31T06:08:51Z

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	Ran said, piqued by his strangely found interest.		Ran said, piqued by his strangely found interest.
	*I didn’t know exactly what ‘strangely found’ meant. I just assumed it basically meant ‘strange’.		*I didn’t know exactly what ‘strangely found’ meant. I just assumed it basically meant ‘strange’.
			:*'found' implies something that did not exist, i.e. 'newly found', while taking on the properties of the said adj. So it does kind of just means 'strange'

	Indeed, this young girl’s appearance was strong of heart, completely unscathed by the dragon being brought out towards her. <nowiki><!--unscathed might be incorrectly used here. Alt: unaffected or word of similar meaning--></nowiki>		Indeed, this young girl’s appearance was strong of heart, completely unscathed by the dragon being brought out towards her. <nowiki><!--unscathed might be incorrectly used here. Alt: unaffected or word of similar meaning--></nowiki>
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	Would it be better if he were only nothing but a gladiator? Then he would '''burn the plan onto his body with awakened interest ''', embrace his overflowing anger and eagerly fight against Mephius without giving a second thought.		Would it be better if he were only nothing but a gladiator? Then he would '''burn the plan onto his body with awakened interest ''', embrace his overflowing anger and eagerly fight against Mephius without giving a second thought.
	*The bolded phrase seemed a little strange, particularly ‘awakened interest’; I’m not sure what would be an alternative though. Also, in general, I think the phrase ‘burn into’ might be more common than ‘onto’.		*The bolded phrase seemed a little strange, particularly ‘awakened interest’; I’m not sure what would be an alternative though. Also, in general, I think the phrase ‘burn into’ might be more common than ‘onto’.
			:*Raws used 'onto his body'. If you watched Prison, it's similar to how that guy tattooed the whole layout of the prison onto his body. Basically, he would 'embody' the plan itself. You can think of 'awakened interest' as "renewed interest"

	Getting a feel for the enemy’s moves and taking over their plan from the beginning was the safer way. Furthermore, it would enclose on the enemy’s guarded measures, and contain their next move.		Getting a feel for the enemy’s moves and taking over their plan from the beginning was the safer way. Furthermore, it would enclose on the enemy’s guarded measures, and contain their next move.
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	:*Nope. Maybe 'resolved' would be a better choice of wording than 'fixed'?		:*Nope. Maybe 'resolved' would be a better choice of wording than 'fixed'?
	::*Then I’m confused by what happened. “not appear to have been fixed until the beginning” implies to me that it was fixed, but not until the parade started. But I thought the parade hasn’t started yet? So I assumed there was an error somewhere.		::*Then I’m confused by what happened. “not appear to have been fixed until the beginning” implies to me that it was fixed, but not until the parade started. But I thought the parade hasn’t started yet? So I assumed there was an error somewhere.
			:*It hadn't. It was a foreshadowing.

	Presently, the dock within Solon was cluttered with ships, and while it may be called a parade, civilian ships were lent out for money so as to increase a province’s fleet size in every way possible. The fleets of the other provinces were in no way inferior by means of appearance—Mephius was after all, a country that did not have many dragonstone ships in its possession—and they currently had no ship capable of filling in the vacant space left by the flagship. <nowiki><!--Note: This passage is in serious need or re-structuring/editing. The ideas are just all over the place in the raws--></nowiki>		Presently, the dock within Solon was cluttered with ships, and while it may be called a parade, civilian ships were lent out for money so as to increase a province’s fleet size in every way possible. The fleets of the other provinces were in no way inferior by means of appearance—Mephius was after all, a country that did not have many dragonstone ships in its possession—and they currently had no ship capable of filling in the vacant space left by the flagship. <nowiki><!--Note: This passage is in serious need or re-structuring/editing. The ideas are just all over the place in the raws--></nowiki>
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	:*Yea, a province is a land part of Mephian territory given rule to by a lord.		:*Yea, a province is a land part of Mephian territory given rule to by a lord.
	::*How many province’s fleets are taking part in the parade? Just confirming, when it says “fleets of the other provinces” is that from the perspective of the province of Solon (meaning ‘other’ is everything but Solon)? The first sentence uses “a province” instead of “the province” implying that civilians in other provinces also take part; whereas changing to “the” would imply it’s only Solon that rents civilian craft.		::*How many province’s fleets are taking part in the parade? Just confirming, when it says “fleets of the other provinces” is that from the perspective of the province of Solon (meaning ‘other’ is everything but Solon)? The first sentence uses “a province” instead of “the province” implying that civilians in other provinces also take part; whereas changing to “the” would imply it’s only Solon that rents civilian craft.
			:*No clue about the # of provinces. And yes, it meant everyone except Solon's

	There, perchance a man of character happened to come see the ships. He was the commanding officer of the Blue Archery Division comprised of soldiers under Lord Zaat, Gary Lynwood. He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer believed to create his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division in the future or at the very least, suitably be promoted and come to own his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.		There, perchance a man of character happened to come see the ships. He was the commanding officer of the Blue Archery Division comprised of soldiers under Lord Zaat, Gary Lynwood. He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer believed to create his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division in the future or at the very least, suitably be promoted and come to own his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.
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	::*Yes on the comma. I’m going to try for a revision, but some/all of it may fall under preference. You can pick and choose which changes, if any, you think are good.		::*Yes on the comma. I’m going to try for a revision, but some/all of it may fall under preference. You can pick and choose which changes, if any, you think are good.
	:::-He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer, and '''was expected''' to '''have''' his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division '''at some point''' in the future, or at the very least, '''be''' suitably promoted and '''command''' his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.		:::-He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer, and '''was expected''' to '''have''' his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division '''at some point''' in the future, or at the very least, '''be''' suitably promoted and '''command''' his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.
			:::*CaM with fix: "and ''given'' command of his own..."

	Considering the time now, I’ll have it over late at the night if you don’t mind.”		Considering the time now, I’ll have it over late at the night if you don’t mind.”
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	:*You could read it as that, but it was because they were just told to 'guard' and never experienced any of these happenings/trained against them, that they were lax. I felt 'entailed' explained this better.		:*You could read it as that, but it was because they were just told to 'guard' and never experienced any of these happenings/trained against them, that they were lax. I felt 'entailed' explained this better.
	::*The reason I didn’t like entail is because I thought entail means something is expected to happen (the google dictionary definition uses the phrase “involve (something) as a necessary or inevitable part or consequence”). I would say that ‘meeting’ and ‘catching’ are necessary parts of the guard job, they just grew lax because it never happened. That was my reasoning behind preferring ‘accustomed’, but I’ll leave it at that if you consider it a matter of preference.		::*The reason I didn’t like entail is because I thought entail means something is expected to happen (the google dictionary definition uses the phrase “involve (something) as a necessary or inevitable part or consequence”). I would say that ‘meeting’ and ‘catching’ are necessary parts of the guard job, they just grew lax because it never happened. That was my reasoning behind preferring ‘accustomed’, but I’ll leave it at that if you consider it a matter of preference.
			:::*Ah, I get where you're coming from and you make a good point. But I still don't think usage of 'entail' in this sentence is wrong per say. Let's avoid a google dictionary definition, since I find they tend to generalize a bit too much. Here is Merriam's definition: 'to impose, involve, '''or''' imply as a necessary accompaniment '''or''' result'. Entail implies a 'direct' involvement with said affair. What you are confusing here is the 'generalized' duties of a guard, and the duties of the guard in this specific case in question. Yes, a guard duty entails them to apprehend suspicious persons. However, the guard duty does not entail them to the apprehensions of suspicious persons, since they cannot perform an apprehension if no such individual exists in the first place. So this is just a slight play of words that enables me to use 'entail' in my opinion. And....well, I guess I'll add the edits after I finish chapter 6....Almost done....at least I wish I was.

Cthaeh at 02:23, 31 January 2014

2014-01-31T02:23:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:23, 31 January 2014
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	Edits complete for chapter 5. With the comment given in the previous chapter talk, I made a few more direct edits; but given that there were one or two undos in the previous chapter, there might be a few here too after you review them. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)		Edits complete for chapter 5. With the comment given in the previous chapter talk, I made a few more direct edits; but given that there were one or two undos in the previous chapter, there might be a few here too after you review them. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)
	*I didn't get to the last few of your replies right now, but I’ll come back to it tomorrow probably. Thank you. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:12, 29 January 2014 (CST)

	I wanted to add an ending period or other punctuation for all dialogue or monologue, even one or few word exclamations or names. But I stopped myself from making any of these changes because you made an edit removing one them (and Tasear did for a couple others). I think most English language novels end all statements, even short ones, with punctuation. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)		I wanted to add an ending period or other punctuation for all dialogue or monologue, even one or few word exclamations or names. But I stopped myself from making any of these changes because you made an edit removing one them (and Tasear did for a couple others). I think most English language novels end all statements, even short ones, with punctuation. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)
	:*Go ahead with the periods. And actually, could you double check on some of the Taesar's choice in conjoining sentences through the use of commas? The semi-colon fixes were fine, but I'm not too experienced with comma placements in his changes. They aren't necessarily wrong, but seem kind of optional to me. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 19:39, 29 January 2014 (CST)		:*Go ahead with the periods. And actually, could you double check on some of the Taesar's choice in conjoining sentences through the use of commas? The semi-colon fixes were fine, but I'm not too experienced with comma placements in his changes. They aren't necessarily wrong, but seem kind of optional to me. --[[User:Detalz\|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz\|talk]]) 19:39, 29 January 2014 (CST)
	:*~~They~~ also seemed optional to me. Sentence fragments aren’t necessarily bad, particularly in speech. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:12, 29 January 2014 (CST)		:*Some also seemed optional to me. Sentence fragments aren’t necessarily bad, particularly in speech. --[[User:Cthaeh\|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh\|talk]]) 21:12, 29 January 2014 (CST)

	===Part 1===		===Part 1===
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	*I assume ‘catch of the wind’ is a literal translation of a Japanese expression meaning something similar to ‘a strange/cruel twist of fate’? Would that, or maybe ‘a strange/cruel irony’, be a valid replacement?		*I assume ‘catch of the wind’ is a literal translation of a Japanese expression meaning something similar to ‘a strange/cruel twist of fate’? Would that, or maybe ‘a strange/cruel irony’, be a valid replacement?
	:*Equivalent: 'word of mouth'		:*Equivalent: 'word of mouth'
	::*I suggest replacing it with that (or ‘a rumor’ or similar). Given the lack of google hits for that expression (minus the ones referring to song lyrics) I don’t think it’s an used expression. Urban dictionary does have an entry for ‘in the wind’ relating to spreading rumors, but I’m unfamilar with even that one.		::*I suggest replacing it with that (or ‘a rumor’ or similar). Given the lack of google hits for that expression (minus the ones referring to song lyrics) I don’t think it’s a used expression. Urban dictionary does have an entry for ‘in the wind’ relating to spreading rumors, but I’m unfamilar with even that one.

	Before he knew it, Pashir’s hand rested on his shoulders. “What are you—” his mouth closed as he halfway muttered these words. He currently felt extremely sad for some reason. More than anger, he was overwhelmed in a pool of grief. Orba laid down his head and leaned his body against Pashir’s shoulder.		Before he knew it, Pashir’s hand rested on his shoulders. “What are you—” his mouth closed as he halfway muttered these words. He currently felt extremely sad for some reason. More than anger, he was overwhelmed in a pool of grief. Orba laid down his head and leaned his body against Pashir’s shoulder.
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	:*'laid out' would be closer to 'established' here.		:*'laid out' would be closer to 'established' here.

	''I’ll have you pay me back duly.''<!--Alt: I’ll have you pay me back in due-->		''I’ll have you pay me back duly.''<nowiki><!--Alt: I’ll have you pay me back in due--></nowiki>
	*Just to give my opinion, probably the original over the alt.		*Just to give my opinion, probably the original over the alt.

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	*What does ‘province’ mean here? I would usually assume it means a sub-area of Mephius, but I’m having trouble constructing the meaning with that use. After I understand that I’ll try to come back with further suggestions.		*What does ‘province’ mean here? I would usually assume it means a sub-area of Mephius, but I’m having trouble constructing the meaning with that use. After I understand that I’ll try to come back with further suggestions.
	:*Yea, a province is a land part of Mephian territory given rule to by a lord.		:*Yea, a province is a land part of Mephian territory given rule to by a lord.
	::*How many province’s fleets are taking part in the parade? Just confirming, when it says “fleets of the other provinces” is that from the perspective of the province of Solon (meaning ‘other’ is everything but Solon)? The first sentence uses “a province” instead of “the province” implying that civilians in other provinces also take part; whereas changing to “the” would imply it’s only in Solon that rents civilian craft.		::*How many province’s fleets are taking part in the parade? Just confirming, when it says “fleets of the other provinces” is that from the perspective of the province of Solon (meaning ‘other’ is everything but Solon)? The first sentence uses “a province” instead of “the province” implying that civilians in other provinces also take part; whereas changing to “the” would imply it’s only Solon that rents civilian craft.

	There, perchance a man of character happened to come see the ships. He was the commanding officer of the Blue Archery Division comprised of soldiers under Lord Zaat, Gary Lynwood. He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer believed to create his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division in the future or at the very least, suitably be promoted and come to own his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.		There, perchance a man of character happened to come see the ships. He was the commanding officer of the Blue Archery Division comprised of soldiers under Lord Zaat, Gary Lynwood. He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer believed to create his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division in the future or at the very least, suitably be promoted and come to own his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.
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	*I’m a little confused in the last sentence. Is he already a Winged Dragon Officer, or just expected to become one? I might also make some further suggestions once I understand that.		*I’m a little confused in the last sentence. Is he already a Winged Dragon Officer, or just expected to become one? I might also make some further suggestions once I understand that.
	:*He is already one. So a comma between 'Officer' and 'believed' would probably be appropriate		:*He is already one. So a comma between 'Officer' and 'believed' would probably be appropriate
			::*Yes on the comma. I’m going to try for a revision, but some/all of it may fall under preference. You can pick and choose which changes, if any, you think are good.
			:::-He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer, and '''was expected''' to '''have''' his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division '''at some point''' in the future, or at the very least, '''be''' suitably promoted and '''command''' his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.

	Considering the time now, I’ll have it over late at the night if you don’t mind.”		Considering the time now, I’ll have it over late at the night if you don’t mind.”
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	::-I was expecting it to be something like “their guard duty likely wasn’t accustomed to meeting any…”		::-I was expecting it to be something like “their guard duty likely wasn’t accustomed to meeting any…”
	:*You could read it as that, but it was because they were just told to 'guard' and never experienced any of these happenings/trained against them, that they were lax. I felt 'entailed' explained this better.		:*You could read it as that, but it was because they were just told to 'guard' and never experienced any of these happenings/trained against them, that they were lax. I felt 'entailed' explained this better.
			::*The reason I didn’t like entail is because I thought entail means something is expected to happen (the google dictionary definition uses the phrase “involve (something) as a necessary or inevitable part or consequence”). I would say that ‘meeting’ and ‘catching’ are necessary parts of the guard job, they just grew lax because it never happened. That was my reasoning behind preferring ‘accustomed’, but I’ll leave it at that if you consider it a matter of preference.

Cthaeh at 03:12, 30 January 2014

2014-01-30T03:12:23Z

Show changes

Detalz at 01:39, 30 January 2014

2014-01-30T01:39:34Z

Show changes

Cthaeh: suggested sentences for revision

2014-01-29T01:24:02Z

suggested sentences for revision

New page

==Suggested sentences for revision==

Edits complete for chapter 5. With the comment given in the previous chapter talk, I made a few more direct edits; but given that there were one or two undos in the previous chapter, there might be a few here too after you review them. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)

I wanted to add an ending period or other punctuation for all dialogue or monologue, even one or few word exclamations or names. But I stopped myself from making any of these changes because you made an edit removing one them (and Tasear did for a couple others). I think most English language novels end all statements, even short ones, with punctuation. --[[User:Cthaeh|Cthaeh]] ([[User talk:Cthaeh|talk]]) 19:24, 28 January 2014 (CST)

===Part 1===

His trip back to the palace up to his return took approximately two hours.
*If I understand correctly two hours is the time it took from when he left the arena until he returned to the arena. If so, I suggest “His trip back to, and then return from the palace took approximately two hours.”

He could only force a smile at the irony in calling out his own name, and jumped down onto the stadium grounds.
*“could only force a smile” didn’t seem to fit for me. I was expecting something like “could barely force down a smile” or “couldn’t help but smile”.

the two men who would be chosen as Clovis and Felipe would lead two hundred slaves to fight against several large dragons.
*I wanted to change it to “two men who were chosen”, but I’m not as confident on it.

“This child here is the best for you. It’s gotten attached to you. See? It looks so happy now that Orba’s come.” // The Baian’s eyes glistened and it let out rough snorts, as it incessantly flicked its tongue in and out. // ''' “...I’m not seeing it as usual.” ''' // Orba spoke unconcernedly. Gaining a dragon’s affection was the same as being treated as its meal.
*The bolded line seemed out of place. I was expecting something like “I’m not seeing it (the dragon’s behavior) as '''un'''usual” or “I’m not seeing that as a good thing (relating to the following line of narrative)”.

Ran said, piqued by his strangely found interest.
*I didn’t know exactly what ‘strangely found’ meant. I just assumed it basically meant ‘strange’.

Indeed, this young girl’s appearance was strong of heart, completely unscathed by the dragon being brought out towards her. <nowiki></nowiki>
*In the first half, suggest removing “’s appearance” since it’s typically a person who is strong of heart. Or instead of “was strong of heart”, it could be “appeared strong of heart”). And then you would have to add in “her appearance was completely unscathed” to change the subject for the second half. In the second half I feel like ‘composure was completely unscathed’ could be a little more natural, but that might just be personal preference. Or as an alternative for the original, maybe ‘(her appearance) was completely composed’.

The stadium shook in anticipation of these high levelled battles. <nowiki></nowiki>
*I think ‘high level(led)’ is pretty good. Some other possibles are top-notch, high profile, noteworthy, talented, and extraordinary.

Even now, necks and limbs were sent flying and bloody entrails spewed out beneath them.
*“necks” seemed like a strange thing to be sent flying. Maybe “heads” would be more natural.

The matches here on forth would proceed on dragonback
For one reason or another, the colour returned to Vileena’s face when,
*I’m less confident about this, but is “hence forth” more natural sounding than “here on forth”?

She jested lightheartedly, but on meeting the emperor’s eyes, she gave a bow, unable to stash away the anxiety that appeared across her face.
*I was a little confused by why “she gave a bow” was in the middle of the sentence, putting it there implies it’s linked to the other clauses.
::-Making the connection I assumed was there a little more explicit, one possibility is “emperor’s eyes, she bowed to hide the anxiety that appeared across her face.” That loses the “unable to stash away,” but you could say that’s implied.
::-Another possible is “on meeting the emperor’s eyes and bowing, she was unable to…” Also ‘stash away’ isn’t incorrect necessarily, but I like the sound of ‘supress’, ‘hide’, or ‘conceal’ better.

Next year, I hope to be able to invite many airship pilots from Garbera and engage with them in a racing contest.
*“engage with them” seemed a little strange, but I’m not sure it should be changed. My first instinct was to swap to say “engage them with”, which puts focus solely on Garberan airship pilots. However, on coming back to them, I see it may have been intended to imply the following “(our country’s pilots) engage with them”.

yet he surely planned to feed any of his retainers who dared voice an objection against him today.
*I think something is missing somewhere after ‘feed’, maybe ‘to dragons’.

“Who do you believe would be more likely to win, Princess?”
*More natural phrasing might be “Who do you believe is more likely”, but the current might be intentional as a style of speech thing. I’m bad at keeping track and noticing those, so I wasn’t sure.

If the princess desires for Orba’s victory
*Same question as the previous entry with deleting ‘for’ (both are the emperor’s speech).

(Talking about the bet of who will win the match) “… This will only serve as a pastime. …”
*Possible replacements for ‘pastime’, which doesn’t feel right to me: ‘small amusement’, ‘little fun’, “small game”, ‘friendly game’, ‘friendly wager’

“I would like to be given the honour of naming your grandchild.”
*Shouldn’t it be ‘my grandchild’ or ‘your child’?

''I would like to see that endearing visage of you cradling the baby in your arms upfront.''
*I’m not sure what ‘upfront’ means here. Perhaps the same as ‘in person’? But even then, it might be unnecessary.

===Part 2===

Gash’s body was cleanly shaven.
*This sentence seemed a bit strange. I would have expected either his face or his head (hairstyle) to be cleanly shaven.

the spear would be tucked under their arms and fixed onto the saddle ring to the side. The other spear was an ordinary one, two metres long. And on his other side, a small buckler was fastened to his belt.
*Last sentence, “And on his other side” is a little strange, since it’s the same side as the spear in the previous sentence (at least based on the picture). Something like “And on his off-side”, “And also on this side”, “And also on his left side”. Also just double checking that the buckler is attached to his belt, because it’s attached to his arm in the picture?

He whirled up the tip of his dragon lance that grazed the flank of the dragon carrying Orba, and on distracting Orba, struck with his other spear.
*I wasn’t sure if the action of ‘whirling up the tip’ caused the lance to graze the flank, or if ‘grazed the flank’ was describing what the lance had done previously to the ‘whirling the tip’? If it’s the first, then I suggest replacing ‘that’ with ‘and’. If it’s the second, I suggest adding ‘had’ in “that had grazed”.

where the best tactic was to sweep the opponent off his landing as opposed to taking the enemy’s head. However, this conditional discrepancy came as all but nigh as their lances clashed time and time again.
*First sentence, I’d like to try to replace ‘sweep the opponent off his landing’. What I could come up with was ‘sweep the opponent’s feet out from under him’ or ‘attack/disrupt the opponent’s footing’.
*Second sentence, suggested revision to something like “this situational strategy was completely ignored as their lances…” or “they completely ignored this strategy as their lances…”

On the lone premise that he survived up to now, Gash was greatly skilled.
*Suggesting change for the first part to, “Based solely on the evidence that he had survived…”

Gash’s figure which once loomed above, now sat below. While Orba’s body tossed back and forth, Orba received the spear thrust up towards him with his shield.
*The first sentence seems a bit awkward. It’s also a little awkward to have primary subject switch between sentences without a conceptual transition, but I first highlighted this just because of the first sentence. A more liberal revision addressing both could be:
::-Gash dropped down from above, and he thrust up towards Orba with his spear. Orba received the blow with his shield while his body was being tossed back and forth.

His movements also appeared disconnected.
*Maybe uncoordinated, awkward, or unsettled instead of ‘disconnected’.

The pinned down Baian struggled to push off the dragon and swung its tail, striking Gash in the chest. <nowiki></nowiki>
*Just to give my opinion, I prefer the current version over the alt.

With so much as the discharge of rebellion, the pus collected within Mephius will turn into oil and the flames will spread like wildfire.” <nowiki></nowiki>
*This sentence was a little unclear. The first part could possibly use some revision. Is the ‘discharge of rebellion’ equivalent to the pus from the wounds? As for alternatives words/phrases, I don’t know if ‘festering wounds’ could be used?

However, it was impossible even for Noue and his powers of imagination to draw upon these fragments of knowledge with his seldom encounters with Gil. … As long things went the way he imagined them and produced the results he desired here in the lands of this foreign country, it would attest that his powers of imagination had not rusted.
*The thing that felt off was “powers of imagination”. ‘Imagination’ doesn’t feel like the right word to me. I thought ‘foresight’ was the word that fit best (other less favourite alternatives: prediction, insight). I thought the verb use of ‘imagined’ was fine, but that could be changed to ‘foresaw’ or ‘predicted’ you changed to ‘foresight’ and wanted it to match closer.

“''If'' I had told the emperor to rescind the order for Kaiser’s execution as my end of the wager at that time
*I think “my end of the wager” would usually refer to what ‘I’ would have to give up. So in this context I thought it should be “his end of the wager”.

It would’ve been better off if the dragon’d eaten you.”
*The “dragon’d eaten” is fairly obvious as “dragon had eaten”, but I find it difficult to say out loud, so I’d consider removing it. But I also can’t come up with a good sounding alternative if you wanted to keep that style in.

He snatched a whip from a nearby guard, and suddenly beat the masked swordsman with it. The mantle he wore tore, and immediately after he let out a moan, lashed him once more.
*I assumed that the ‘he’ in “mantle he wore” and “he let out a moan” were Kain (the masked swordsman), however if that’s the case then the last part reads “(Kain) lashed him (Kain) once more” and that should be fixed. It is possible that the first two ‘he’s refer to Orba, even though it’s more natural to think Kain’s mantle was torn. I’d suggest replacing one or two of the pronouns in the second sentence with names to clarify who is doing what.

when you’re nothing more than cattle I feed!” <nowiki> </nowiki>
*You might be right, though it’s not too disruptive. Another animal could be pig, hog, swine. You also might be able to say “one of the cattle” or “a piece of livestock” somehow. Also, I think this might be a personal preference thing, but I might use “in my keeping” instead of “I feed.”

It was fortunate his body didn’t suffer from any abnormalities,
*I think ‘from any abnormalities’ is a little strange here. I’d expect something like “didn’t suffer any crippling/debilitating injuries”.

You heroically survived through the ordeals, and now you’re about the country that belongs to you.
*I think some words are missing in the second half. I thought something like “you’re about to '''take back the''' country that ''rightfully'' belongs to you.” (‘rightfully’ isn’t strictly necessary)

Orba glared at him, coughing up blood onto the floor.
*This somewhat relates to some of the direct edits I made of ‘floor’ to ‘ground’ that occurred in the arena, because I assumed the arena was outdoors (if I’m wrong that will need to be undone). I pictured this scene as being outside too, so I wanted to change to ‘ground’, but I think it’s less clear whether this occurs inside or outside. Given that I’ve seen the floor/ground ambiguity in other translations around BT, I assume there might be a common word used for both of them in Japanese, so there might not be a perfect answer here.

===Part 3===

Amidst the slave girl introduced as Mira who waited on them, Pashir mumbled on about his past.
*I didn’t understand what it meant to be ‘Amidst’ the slave girl. I would have guessed from context that line should be something like “While the slave girl known as Mira waited on them, Pashir…”.

Deaths were frequently tolled from overwork and cave-ins.
*I personally wouldn’t use tolled. I would probably rearrange to “Overwork and cave-ings (caused / resulted in / gave rise to) frequent deaths.” Though this is probably a preference thing.

Even then, it was a longly awaited job.
*Suggesting replacing with something like ‘a highly sought after job’

Orba could once more feel himself returning to the times of a slave.
*I thought “returning to his time as a slave” would be more natural phrasing for what I thought the meaning was.

Pashir worked tirelessly in the mine so that he could procure inexpensive meat from the marketplace for his sister. The person she asked for her brother’s whereabouts was a bad one. He was a slave supervisor known for his lust.
*It feels like there’s a transition missing in between the first and second sentences, something like “One day when his sister had come looking for him”.

“It might be catch of the wind,” Pashir drank up the cold, tasteless soup and then expressionlessly continued, “but I’ve heard my younger sister has also been made a slave.
*I assume ‘catch of the wind’ is a literal translation of a Japanese expression meaning something similar to ‘a strange/cruel twist of fate’? Would that, or maybe ‘a strange/cruel irony’, be a valid replacement?

Before he knew it, Pashir’s hand rested on his shoulders. “What are you—” his mouth closed as he halfway muttered these words. He currently felt extremely sad for some reason. More than anger, he was overwhelmed in a pool of grief. Orba laid down his head and leaned his body against Pashir’s shoulder.
*On second pass, I realized that all the pronouns likely refer to Orba, but I actually got that mixed up on first pass because Orba’s name isn’t given to the end. I suggest replacing one or two with his name just to make it harder to get mixed up.
*Also, the last sentence made me picture a scene like a couple resting on each other’s shoulders, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the intent. From what I would guess his body language to be, “hung his head down” might be a better description for the motion of his head. And though the second half does seem a little strange to me, I can’t really think of anything that might be better for it; ‘his body’ might be unnecessary, but I also don’t think it hurts anything.

It wasn’t something Orba hadn’t already considered, but this plan wasn’t exactly bold, nor was it very endangering.
*What does endangering mean in this context? I was guessing either something akin to ‘risky’ (danger for the participants), or something meaning dangerous for the targeted nobles.

Orba might not have voiced it out, but his chest overflowed with seething anger. <nowiki></nowiki>
*I feel like overflowed and seething are somewhat redundant. I might just go with one or the other (‘overflowed with’ or ‘seethed with’).

A portion of Noue’s laid out plans was now in his hands.
*Suggesting replacing “laid out plans” with “unfolding plans” if that’s consistent with intended meaning.

''I’ll have you pay me back duly.''
*Just to give my opinion, probably the original over the alt.

Orba returned to the palace clearly after the break of dawn.
*‘clearly’ seemed strange to me here. I was guessing it to mean that the fact that dawn has passed was obvious; in that case I probably would have said “well after”.

Being a time of the festival, the guards pleasantly greeted the prince.
*The first part felt a little awkward to me. But nothing better is occurring to me, so carry on if it seems fine to you.

Would it be better if he were only nothing but a gladiator? Then he would '''burn the plan onto his body with awakened interest ''', embrace his overflowing anger and eagerly fight against Mephius without giving a second thought.
*The bolded phrase seemed a little strange, particularly ‘awakened interest’; I’m not sure what would be an alternative though. Also, in general, I think the phrase ‘burn into’ might be more common than ‘onto’.

Getting a feel for the enemy’s moves and taking over their plan from the beginning was the safer way. Furthermore, it would enclose on the enemy’s guarded measures, and contain their next move.
*I wasn’t sure exactly what ‘guarded measures’ means. I get the gist of it, but what would be the difference between that and something like ‘secret plans’?

The occasion was a naval review—in other words, an air parade. Watching the ships take off to the sky was also a sight of grandeur.
*I would replace ‘sight of grandeur’ with ‘site to behold’. But that’s probably personal preference.

In addition, some tens would be selected from amongst the people to board a cruiser and observe the assembly of formation of a fleet from the sky.
*It seemed like ‘assembly of’ and ‘formation of’ might be unintentional duplicates? If not there might be a better wording.

The mechanics were urgently called back from the festival and quickly performed an inspection, then switched to repairs. However, whatever the problem was, it did not appear to have been fixed until the beginning of the parade.
*For the last sentence, I thought it should be something like “did not appear that it would be fixed in time for the beginning of the parade.”

Presently, the dock within Solon was cluttered with ships, and while it may be called a parade, civilian ships were lent out for money so as to increase a province’s fleet size in every way possible. The fleets of the other provinces were in no way inferior by means of appearance—Mephius was after all, a country that did not have many dragonstone ships in its possession—and they currently had no ship capable of filling in the vacant space left by the flagship. <nowiki></nowiki>
*What does ‘province’ mean here? I would usually assume it means a sub-area of Mephius, but I’m having trouble constructing the meaning with that use. After I understand that I’ll try to come back with further suggestions.

There, perchance a man of character happened to come see the ships. He was the commanding officer of the Blue Archery Division comprised of soldiers under Lord Zaat, Gary Lynwood. He held the qualifications of a Winged Dragon Officer believed to create his own fleet of air carriers within the Blue Archery Division in the future or at the very least, suitably be promoted and come to own his own air carrier and unit and ascend to an important position.
*First sentence: The style of this sentence is just a bit strange and seemingly out of place. Nothing wrong if that’s the intentional style.
*I’m a little confused in the last sentence. Is he already a Winged Dragon Officer, or just expected to become one? I might also make some further suggestions once I understand that.

Considering the time now, I’ll have it over late at the night if you don’t mind.”
*The expression ‘late at the night’ seems unnatural to me because of the ‘the’; however that wouldn’t quite fit in this context. “later this night” is an alternative with slightly different that would fit, but it may not have the exactly correct meaning.

Late into the night on this day, even when Gary brought over the arranged ship, the guards took turns to keep a lookout.
*I think ‘on this day’ might be unnecessary, though taking it literally I suppose it could be used to me near, but not after 12:00am.

Although that was the case, their guard duty likely never entailed them meeting any suspicious individuals or catching any intruders, for they only stood watch and never bothered going ''inside'' the ships.
*The use of ‘entailed’ in the second segment isn’t wrong necessarily, but I was expecting a little bit different meaning.
::-I was expecting it to be something like “their guard duty likely wasn’t accustomed to meeting any…”