User talk:Nutcase - Revision history

Nutcase: Lost in translation

2007-03-12T02:52:37Z

Lost in translation

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:52, 12 March 2007
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	As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.		As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.
	--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)		--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)

			== Lost in translation ==

			Here is a short paragraph from early in Vol8 Wandering Shadow


			Current version
			:I uttered this half-hearted response while continuing to watch the ball fly around the court.

			:The opponent began her serve, and the ball traveled in an arc, before being projected upwards by the other side's setterFrom behind the 3-metre line, a girl clad in gym clothes ran forward, then lept high into the air. At the apex of her jump, the hitter raised her right arm, and viciously spiked the ball downwards. The angle was perfect, as the ball flew steeply down and landed in the corner of the opponents' court. A member from the volleyball club, who was acting as a stand-in referee, blew his whistle. A perfect back attack indeed.

			Japanese original text (courtesy of Smidge)

			:　俺は気のない相づちを打ちつつ、コートの上空を舞《ま》う白いバレーボールの行方《ゆくえ》を追う。相手の陣地《じんち》から山なりサーブで飛んできたボールは、放物線の落下点でレシーブされ、次にトスという手順を踏《ふ》んでほぼ垂直に上昇《じょうしょう》する。

			:　そのボールを追うように、アタックラインの遥《はる》か手前から助走をつけてジャンプした体育着の女子が見事なまでの躍動《やくどう》感で右手を振《ふ》り下ろし、位置エネルギーと運動エネルギーのすべてを叩き込まれた気の毒なボールは、殺人スパイクとなって相手チームの二枚ブロックをはじき飛ばし、コートの角に吸い込まれた。完璧《かんぺき》なバックアタック、主審《しゅしん》役を務めるバレーボール部員が笛を吹《ふ》く。


			With parenthetical pronunciation stuff stripped out (doesn't help Babelfish)

			俺は気のない相づちを打ちつつ、
			コートの上空を舞う白いバレーボールの行方を追う。
			相手の陣地から山なりサーブで飛んできたボールは、
			放物線の落下点でレシーブされ、
			次にトスという手順を踏んでほぼ垂直に上昇する。

			そのボールを追うように、
			アタックラインの遥か手前から助走をつけてジャンプした体育着の女子が見事なまでの躍動感で右手を振り下ろし、
			位置エネルギーと運動エネルギーのすべてを叩き込まれた気の毒なボールは、
			殺人スパイクとなって相手チームの二枚ブロックをはじき飛ばし、
			コートの角に吸い込まれた。
			完璧なバックアタック、
			主審役を務めるバレーボール部員が笛を吹く。

			Translated phrase by phrase by Babelfish

			As for we while striking the phase hammer which does not have the air,
			The whereabouts of the white volleyball where it whirls the sky of coat are chased
			As for the ball which becomes the mountain from the position of the partner and flies with serve
			It is received in the falling point of parabola,
			Stepping on the procedure, toss next, almost it rises vertically

			: Way that ball is chased,
			: Acquiring approach run from foreward the far of the attack line, the woman of the physical education arrival which jumps being, it shakes the right hand in, the beautiful raw stirring impression lowering
			: As for the unfortunate ball which is hammered everything of position energy and kinetic energy
			: Becoming the homicide spike, it repels two blocks of the opponent team, throwing
			: It was sucked into the angle of coat
			: Perfect back attack
			: The volleyball staff who serves chief umpire part blows the whistle.



			As for we while striking the phase hammer which does not have the air,
			The whereabouts of the white volleyball where it whirls the sky of coat are chased we watched the volleyball as it flew around the court
			As for the ball which becomes the mountain from the position of the partner and flies with serve
			It is received in the falling point of parabola,
			Stepping on the procedure, toss next, almost it rises vertically

			: Way that ball is chased,
			: Acquiring approach run from foreward the far of the attack line, the woman of the physical education arrival which jumps being, it shakes the right hand in, the beautiful raw stirring impression lowering
			: As for the unfortunate ball which is hammered everything of position energy and kinetic energy
			: Becoming the homicide spike, it repels two blocks of the opponent team, throwing
			: It was sucked into the angle of coat
			: Perfect back attack
			: The volleyball staff who serves chief umpire part blows the whistle.

Nutcase: /* Lines I want to remember */

2007-03-09T16:56:54Z

Lines I want to remember

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:56, 9 March 2007
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	:Late in the story(Lone Mountain Syndrome) I noticed Koizumi observing that, "Eutopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same mirror." Hmmm...did he really say that? My ears always light up when I encounter such an interesting mixed metaphor.		:Late in the story(Lone Mountain Syndrome) I noticed Koizumi observing that, "Eutopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same mirror." Hmmm...did he really say that? My ears always light up when I encounter such an interesting mixed metaphor.

			:Seriously, it's a mistake to take my meticulousness as obsessiveness. To a hammer, everything is a nail, and to a guy with a microscope, everything has a lot of very interesting detail. Since the recognition of fractals, this has some interesting implications about what exactly I'm looking at. Wink

	== "Squeamish" ==		== "Squeamish" ==

Nutcase: /* Lines I want to remember */

2007-02-17T04:50:07Z

Lines I want to remember

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:50, 17 February 2007
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	Certain lines have an interest that transcends the particular context in which they arise.		Certain lines have an interest that transcends the particular context in which they arise.


	:"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.		:"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.


	:Late in the story(Lone Mountain Syndrome) I noticed Koizumi observing that, "Eutopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same mirror." Hmmm...did he really say that? My ears always light up when I encounter such an interesting mixed metaphor.		:Late in the story(Lone Mountain Syndrome) I noticed Koizumi observing that, "Eutopia and Dystopia are two sides of the same mirror." Hmmm...did he really say that? My ears always light up when I encounter such an interesting mixed metaphor.

Nutcase at 03:27, 17 February 2007

2007-02-17T03:27:12Z

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
-----
+== Lines I want to remember ==
 == "Squeamish" ==
@@ Line 43: / Line 50: @@
 == Live A Live ==
-This is the one story that I feel was substantially improved upon in the anime compared to the book. Of course the story as written has an unworkably long performance sequence for the anime, but set that aside.  "God Knows" in particular is an actually great performance of an actually great song. Hirano Aya belts this one out of the park, and the animaters did it justice. Beyond that, the reaction of the audience is more congruent. Audiences don't reward a stunningly great pop music performance with stunned silence. Also it's more in the realm of plausibility to get solid interpretations for two songs worked out in an hour, rather than trying to construct solid interpretations on the fly for several songs. Finally, I like how "God Knows" can be taken as a "confession." You don't have to read it that way, but I take it as a factor in Kyon's stunned expression.
+This is the one story that I feel was substantially improved upon in the anime compared to the book. Of course the story as written has an unworkably long performance sequence for the anime, but set that aside.  "God Knows" in particular is an actually great performance of an actually great song. Hirano Aya belts this one out of the park, and the animation did it justice. Beyond that, the reaction of the audience is more congruent. Audiences don't reward a stunningly great pop music performance with stunned silence. Also it's more in the realm of plausibility to get solid interpretations for two songs worked out in an hour, rather than trying to construct solid interpretations on the fly for several songs. Finally, I like how "God Knows" can be taken as a "confession." You don't have to read it that way, but I take it as a factor in Kyon's stunned expression.
 == Charmed at First Sight LOVER ==
@@ Line 83: / Line 92: @@
 As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.
 --[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)

Nutcase at 03:03, 17 February 2007

2007-02-17T03:03:03Z

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	~~To preserve for ongoing consideration~~		== My editorial philosophy, FWIW ==

	~~As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order~~: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)		Preserved for ongoing consideration:

			:As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)

	I am taking a much more aggressively engaged ~~line as an editor~~, in that I seriously consider changing anything that somehow disturbs my experience as a reader. Certain things, like British spellings and some idioms, Japanese words I'm familiar with and some nuances of comma usage, don't bother me so I ignore them. I also tread carefully around anything that seems like it might be part of the author's intent or the author's "voice." Last but not least, I'd prefer not to annoy any translators or editors working upstream. So far, nobody has indicated any annoyance, but only a fool squanders what is sure to be a finite spool of slack. I assume I've used up slack. I try to project an appropriate level of approachability and openness to feedback. Don't bite me, just growl a little or whatever.
			I am taking a much more aggressively engaged approach to editing, in that I seriously consider changing anything that somehow disturbs my experience as a reader, everything from tiny typos to incomprehensible Japanese metaphors. Certain things, like British spellings and some idioms, Japanese words I'm familiar with and some nuances of comma usage, don't bother me so I ignore them. I also tread carefully around anything that seems like it might be part of the author's intent or the author's "voice." Last but not least, I'd prefer not to annoy any translators or editors working upstream. So far, nobody has indicated any annoyance, but only a fool squanders what is sure to be a finite spool of slack. I assume I've used up slack. I try to project an appropriate level of approachability and openness to feedback. Don't bite me, just growl a little or whatever.


	----		----

			== "Squeamish" ==


	To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance from "Lone Island Syndrome" boils down to this:		To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance from "Lone Island Syndrome" boils down to this:


			"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears."
	"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears."

	Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent.		Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent.
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			"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.
	"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.

Nutcase: "Squeamish"

2007-02-17T02:46:22Z

"Squeamish"

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:46, 17 February 2007
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	As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.		As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.
	--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)		--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)

			== "Squeamish" ==


			To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance from "Lone Island Syndrome" boils down to this:


			"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears."

			Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent.

			Smidege204: The line in question is "ハルヒの問いに圭一さんは苦笑い" in which "苦笑い" means "bitter smile" - so wryly fits perfectly here :)


			"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.


			"Squeamish" is actually a good choice as a translator's default as long as it is understood to be a placeholder; it's easy to find and usually so incongruent that it obviously needs to be replaced when somebody gets around to it. The author's intention is going to be particularly nuanced exactly on this sort of point, so a translator may well want to bypass it while doing the heavy lifting part of the translation. One wants to finish framing before breaking out the planes and the sandpaper.

			This is my view. Since it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, I have acted on this view, examining, with scalpel in hand, all examples of "squeamish." ;)

Nutcase at 02:43, 17 February 2007

2007-02-17T02:43:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:43, 17 February 2007
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	As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)		As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)


			I am taking a much more aggressively engaged line as an editor, in that I seriously consider changing anything that somehow disturbs my experience as a reader. Certain things, like British spellings and some idioms, Japanese words I'm familiar with and some nuances of comma usage, don't bother me so I ignore them. I also tread carefully around anything that seems like it might be part of the author's intent or the author's "voice." Last but not least, I'd prefer not to annoy any translators or editors working upstream. So far, nobody has indicated any annoyance, but only a fool squanders what is sure to be a finite spool of slack. I assume I've used up slack. I try to project an appropriate level of approachability and openness to feedback. Don't bite me, just growl a little or whatever.


	----		----

Nutcase: /* Charmed at First Sight LOVER */

2007-02-16T14:31:25Z

Charmed at First Sight LOVER

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:31, 16 February 2007
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	:No interpretation, that's exactly what it says :p It's quite clearly a stab at Koizumi's "ambiguous preferences"... he's not calling him a pussy - he's implying Koizumi is gay. (ie: Tomcat = un-neutered male cat / "Who's the tomcat?" = "Who's the guy you're fooling around with?") [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 10:54, 25 January 2007 (PST)		:No interpretation, that's exactly what it says :p It's quite clearly a stab at Koizumi's "ambiguous preferences"... he's not calling him a pussy - he's implying Koizumi is gay. (ie: Tomcat = un-neutered male cat / "Who's the tomcat?" = "Who's the guy you're fooling around with?") [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 10:54, 25 January 2007 (PST)

			Ultimately I settled on a reading based on Harhuhi's threat earlier in the scene to exile Kyon with a salt fish in his mouth to fight for territory with other cats, i.e. it's an ambivalent bitter/sarcastic remark about who is more the outsider, primarily, with any implications about promiscuity/sexuality in the background.--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 06:31, 16 February 2007 (PST)

	== Editor Status, ==		== Editor Status, ==

Nutcase: /* Editor Status, */

2007-02-16T13:56:18Z

Editor Status,

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:56, 16 February 2007
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	[[User:Onizuka-gto\|Onizuka-gto]] 13:26, 15 February 2007 (PST)		[[User:Onizuka-gto\|Onizuka-gto]] 13:26, 15 February 2007 (PST)

			As has been indicated earlier, this nominal status change may have little consequence, as I have been pretty much doing exactly what I want to do anyway; however, I appreciate it as an indication of "system health." It reduces cognitive dissonance. I'm still human enough to appreciate it on a personal level as well.
			--[[User:Nutcase\|Nutcase]] 05:56, 16 February 2007 (PST)

Onizuka-gto: Editor Status,

2007-02-15T21:26:35Z

Editor Status,

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:26, 15 February 2007
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	:No interpretation, that's exactly what it says :p It's quite clearly a stab at Koizumi's "ambiguous preferences"... he's not calling him a pussy - he's implying Koizumi is gay. (ie: Tomcat = un-neutered male cat / "Who's the tomcat?" = "Who's the guy you're fooling around with?") [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 10:54, 25 January 2007 (PST)		:No interpretation, that's exactly what it says :p It's quite clearly a stab at Koizumi's "ambiguous preferences"... he's not calling him a pussy - he's implying Koizumi is gay. (ie: Tomcat = un-neutered male cat / "Who's the tomcat?" = "Who's the guy you're fooling around with?") [[User:Smidge204\|Smidge204]] 10:54, 25 January 2007 (PST)

			== Editor Status, ==

			Welcome to the editorial Staff,

			I forgot to mention that continuous contribution to the wiki over a undisclosed period will automatically level you up.

			Action speak louder then words. ;)

			of course if you wish to decline you may do so, if you wish to accept just move your name on the Haruhi front page to the "active" group.

			Thank you for your contribution and i hope you will continue to do so in the future.

			Regards,

			[[User:Onizuka-gto\|Onizuka-gto]] 13:26, 15 February 2007 (PST)