Talk:Hidan no Aria Archived

Translation

Are there anyone who is currently traslating volume 11-14?

I've been wondering... did the translators working on this put it on hiatus? becuase ive noticed that for the longest time, there has been no progress Yo... the author of this series... he uses a pen name right? He's not actually named "middle school" right?

Hey I've been editing lately. I've found Kinji's last name spelled Tohyama and Tooyama, we should keep his name uniform at least. I'm gonna change them all to Tohyama, Tooyama is awkward for me for some reason. -blackfaia

nice novel, with a monthly manga and a coming anime

I wanted to compliment the translators on the speed and quality of their translation. You guys are dropping these volumes one by one, thank for your hard work.

WHERE ARE THE TRANSLATORS XD WHY WON'T THEY REPLY! WHY WONT THEY LET ME TRANSLATE >_<!!! --Seoulfighter 08:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not just continue translating until they reply?

start translating from ch 3 so you are sure you won't translate the same thing^^

Mr. Seoulfighter, please lend us your godly powers and translate this LN, thank you very much ~Ghost

Fine I'll start picking this up soon since I've received no contact from the other translators, and realized it's never been updated. but right now I have to find a job to help pay for college -.-... my dad wasted my tuition on my stepmother... WASTED 35,000$ on her jewelry and clothes(tears)! --Seoulfighter 02:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

That's sad. Sometimes I wonder how parents can be this cruel and selfish... --Darklor 20:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

If this happened to me, I'd give those parents of mine a MASSIVE chewing out. I mean seriously, WTF? Well, good luck to you though Seoulfighter.

you have my sympathy Seoulfighter-san. Your tuition fee must be the top priority because it is the job of the parents to make sure their children graduate from school... Thanks again ~ Ghost

don't worry abouts TL and think about yourself, Real Life has top priority^^(even if this will make us a little sad)

I got contacted by the original translator, and Undying told me that his hard drive got wiped so he won't be working on this project. I guess for now, while I wait for a reply from the places I applied to I'll do some translating.

As for my parents if I tried to chew them out my dad would start a Socratic Seminar about how my line of logic is flawed and his is correct this lasts for 3 HOURS and can go up to 6 if I argue... my mom is poor, and my dad sold my car(My dad had 3 cars one of which he had originally planned on giving to me.) and gave that money to my sister. --Seoulfighter 18:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Your mom is poor? Step-mom or real mom?

My Real mom who has a job... and my step-mom who is leeching off my father... both are poor. - seoulfighter

I get the feeling that you don't really like your stepmom...

children suffered because of their irresponsible parents.... Hang-on seoulfighter ~ Ghost

Your dad doesnt like you (anymore)? You haven't made him angry, did you? --Darklor 20:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC) ^^Your confidence made me lol. Either his father doesn't like him now, or his father never liked him... I will cry now.

lol No my dad never said he doesn't like me. He says he loves me like all his children =.=... which is meaningless considering all of us were kicked out to accommodate my stepmother... As for what I did to piss him off. He asked me during college to be a dog that just studies and stay in my room, and listen to every command he gives me =.=. What would YOU do if your parents said those words to you... Then said they only have your best interest in mind... --Seoulfighter 06:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all parents' words are correct, they are also human who commit mistakes. Have you talked about how you feel with your father? Maybe you and your father misunderstood each other. Misunderstanding might cause great conflict on the future. ~ Ghost

I have talked to him sat down face to face and tried to sort it out. The only thing that ended up happening is that he said I'm being illogical. He said he couldn't understand why I can't just listen to everything he says and have faith that every decision he's making for me is the best for me =.=. I'll start translating some more to blow off some steam >_<! --Seoulfighter 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Man, your life's almost like a mix between Hayate No Gotoku and Cinderalla, you have my sympathy. ~ Aussie Curry.

wow... just finished reading the last chapter of volume one... I must say... chapter 5 is basically as long as the first 4 chapters combined... I'll refrain from giving spoilers but that was really an unexpected twist that I should have seen coming...

its almost a month or more since the last update..... any news? This and <sword art online> made me craving for more LOL ~ghost

Last time I checked, Spadey was approximately 42% done. Expect chapter 5 to be completed at least by the end of this month, if not the next. --Asian InvAsian 05:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want, I can give you some spoilers on both this and SAO --Eveonder 05:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

ow thanks for the update! and about the spoiler... thanks but I will wait for the complete chapter ^^ --Ghost

did he used the word dog?REAlly? wow i know who is in the (hell)list--Cognitio

Here i go again and asking for the status LOL --Ghost 10:35 , 15 October 2010 (GMT + 8:00)

Since the manga release at snail pace....I am waiting for the last chapter here... xenocross

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --Asian InvAsian 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want an update, I'd suggest you look in here -> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&start=75 --Asian InvAsian 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Summary of previous discussion: Translator is trying to go to school. Has problems. Will gambatte. Our heartfelt approval. --Novium 20:28, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

--I don't know how else to contact translators of this series, so I'll post here. Seeing as the anime adaption is coming out in around a week, I'm guessing there will be a lot more views of this series. As such, I wouldn't mind if the translators spit out a roughly translated version of the next few volumes, I have 2+ hours a day I can spend fixing up English, I can probably revise a chapter a day if need be. --Asteradragon 8:52, 6 March 2011 (EST)

--Speed translating is an insult to the craft. - YoakeNoHikari 21:55, 10 April 2011 (UCT)

Only if it's done horribly. Zero2001 21:01, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

The anime is out now.. thats what brought me here. If you do decide to do a fast translation I would like to add that I can also edit anything you put out. -blackfaia

Vol 8 ?

Are their any plans to continue translating this series? Because it seems volume 8 and 9 in particular are almost done but their hasn't been any updates in quite some time...

Yo anyone want Vol 14? ISBN978-4-8401-4932-7 http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/bunkoj/book_detail/945 - Sexy

We need volume 8 and 9, to have pdf versions since they are finished Zeru (talk) 00:36, 23 January 2013 (CST)

...Look, all the pdfs are done by fans. BT doesn't have a staff per say. Bottom line, do your own pdfs, or wait for a fan to do up one.--Teh Ping (talk) 07:55, 23 January 2013 (CST)

The Anime

The Anime is starting today or tomorrow, does anyone have some hope for it? --Darn2k 12:40, 14 April 2011 (UCT)

Slightly disappointing, but they do have to condense a lot of things in anime, so I'm not going to be too critical - YoakeNoHikari 18:13, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I can't say I disagree, but so far it doesn't look to bad. Though I have to admit I don't think Aria's voice is quite right, it just feels slightly wrong.--Darn2k 18:28, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

A bit too cutesy for my taste, but that's Kugyuu for you - YoakeNoHikari 19:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

But the seiyu voice fits. I did think Aria's mannerisms were a lot similar to Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, but they went even further and added a dash of Nagi from Hayate no Gotoku, Aria's voice could not be in better hands since Kugimiya-san did both. Zero2001 21:07, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

I don't know, it just seemed a bit too "squeeky" or a little too grating to fit with the character, at least that is what I think from reading the first 3 books.--Darn2k 21:42, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

そうだった。She's described as having a Seiyuu like voice, so they can't go wrong there. XD However, I did think her voice would be slightly lower, possibly a more Shana-like tone. Anyways, do you guys like the OP/ED - YoakeNoHikari 22:00, 16 April 2011 (UCT)

My Opinions: OP = 3.5/5 , ED 2/5. Some parts of the OP sounded similar to Asura Cryin's OP (to me at least), loved that one. Fav. part from ep 1 (+ -)"Aaaa, Watashi no magazine!!!". BTW how far do you think the anime will cover the story? Zero2001 04:01, 17 April 2011 (UCT)

Shows ended now and it seems the DVD/Blu-Ray of vol.1 of the anime did not sell well enough for a second season so far. Thinking I am gonna have to stick to just reading the story here.ROOMA4HELL 04:39, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

Picture Positioning

I'd like to discuss and debate about the picture positioning in the light novel chapter parts. Currently the pictures are being placed in such an order as to mimic the light novel position. (ie: text page ends picture page begins). However I believe that this is problematic to be used here because in reading a light novel one can see the picture page as well as the text page side by side when they open onto that page thus allowing easy comparison between the line and it's corresponding picture. But here, due to the layout being continuous it does not allow the corresponding to occur so smoothly. Instead the reader passes the line that the picture corresponds to and finds the image 10 to 20 lines below that right next to text lines that have either little or absolutely no relation to the picture at all. I acknowledge the argument that this is how the author wished it to be, however I wish to make a point that this was because of the very basic format of all books. No matter what page you open to, unless you fold one side to the back there will always be two pages before you. So I have two ideas to give here:

1. Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them.
2. Mark the end of each page with a ---- to insert a line signifying the end of a novel page(like demonstrated below) and making the pictures bigger so they may seem page sized as well.

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3. Make no changes and let the text and pictures remain unmatched.

Wow that's three. LOL. Personally, I believe the first idea is the best even if it does go against the original ordering. Does anyone have any objections and explanations as to why? Zero2001 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UCT)

I'll go with the first option. Initially, I thought that the picture placement was just some kind or bug or error or something. It didn't really occur to me that that was intentional. ;) Anyway, it will help the reader identify the scene and image better, since the picture is placed beside or near the accompanying text. My ignorance is showing, sorry about that. Anyway, I read (or looked at a page, trying to find a word I know) the source and the images are pretty much around where they are here, the only difference being the format (page-to-page vs continuous). Cross-referenced other series (specifically ZnT) and the editing is the same. So even though it's not spot on, it is how the page is intended w/ the only difference being format. So I guess, 3rd option? s13 16:05, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not putting the pictures anywhere else. Each author chooses where to put their pictures for a very specific reason. If you think it doesn't correspond well, then minimize a picture of the photo and read it side by side.- YoakeNoHikari 15:34, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

The OP is not incorrect that you can see the pictures side by side when you're reading it, but I prefer to just put it in at the end of the page, because, well...that's just how I see it. Putting it at the beginning would not necessarily be incorrect, but it's nice to read something before you look at the picture for it, which is the author's intent. - YoakeNoHikari 17:09, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

What you are saying is partly true. But only in cases where the picture relating to the text is on the backside of the related text page. When it is on the page on the side it is obviously there so that the picture and the text could be easily referenced. Even here because of the picture's size it can be made to look as though it is right next to the page. That is what I believe the author's original intention is. I'm not wrong am I? Zero2001 17:16, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Rather I would say that because of the transition from side-by-side to continuous format the resulting positions of the pictures are something the author had not originally wanted, wouldn't you agree? As such shouldn't we choose from point 1 or 2 and not 3 regardless of how it's being done in the other light novels pages? Isn't it only correct that we do this? Zero2001 19:12, 27 April 2011 (UCT)

Finally from what you have been saying, it seems that you want the format to be as follows:

text page1
picture page2
text page3

but instead it's actually like this:

text page1
text page3 picture page2

Note: Point 1 would make it like this:

text page1 picture page2
text page3

whereas Point 2 would show it like this:

text page1

---

picture page2

---

text page3

So which format would you prefer. According to this, even the current format is actually against the original author's wishes, isn't it? Zero2001 12:43, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

give it a few days before concluding that people are not answering. some of us are busy people in RL. besides, not everyone watches the pages, or are able to sift through the flood of "recent changes" to find their object of interest. bring it to the forums in that case. begging your pardon, as a translator, I think this is so trivial that I won't even waste time debating or discussing it. discussing stuff like terminologies such as the butei articles is more constructive than a few image placements, and there are very few indeed; begging your pardon again. if you really want to, you can set up a poll in the forums, but that would only make sense if a lot of people are actually concerned with this topic of interest. whatever the case, the supervisor (or translators) makes the final decision. on a side note, given that this is relatively popular project, nobody posting means no one cares about this? and sorry for my typing because I hate caps hahaha :3 --Larethian 13:17, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

No problem. I do understand and it was my intention to wait. Plus the purpose of this topic is to persuade the editors and as stated in my previous post (see hidden text) the comment was just for motivation and I apologized to those who would take it the wrong way, finally I didn't actually say anything wrong, only laughed (evilly yes but only laughed), LOL. Besides, if my intention was not to persuade through discussion and debating the issue I wouldn't have started this in the first place. Trivial, it might be on face, but I still think it is worth discussing because of it's deeper implications. Plus if nobody cares doesn't that mean that any format is applicable? I think that is wrong, which is why I wish to confirm others views on this. Zero2001 13:46, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

I didn't say that you are saying something wrong. It's just my opinion that it's a trivial thing, just as it's in your opinion that it's important. Different opinions that's all. No right or wrong. --Larethian 14:06, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

True. Zero2001 18:49, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Yes indeed. Going over the previous posts I see that this is indeed a difference in opinion. Clarity is indeed needed. My opinion is that of a single reader, what's yours? Oh and we might need other readers' opinions as well, after all I am not the only one or a representative of all the readers. No, not at all. Thus more input from both sides would be appreciated. Zero2001 21:42, 28 April 2011 (UCT)

Hmm... I wouldnt see any reason to do it different as it is done in the other translations... - aka text page / picture page / text page, but if you like you could put the corresponding line also under the picture (like it was done for Haruhi) to get a matching effect... --Darklor 01:08, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

Yeah that is being done here and there. But it still feels weird to scroll down a whole screen or two just to get to the picture that matches the text, especially when in the book the text-picture pages are side-by-side '(See the layout example a few posts back for details). (After checking) See, the picture's still side-by-side even here, just with the wrong text page, so to speak. I'm proposing we correct that. The journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step but if we don't take the first step how will the journey begin? So why not take the first step when the result is an improvement? If it's a problem of time consumption while revising previous chapters then can't you let me take care of that detail. That way the translators won't have to stop their work. I can do it all within a few hours, albeit a bit roughly in the cases where the picture does not have labels. But even so. It's actually better than setting it next to the wrong page start. As said before I believe setting the picture, next to the page, after the one it is meant for (ie:

page1: text
page3: text | page2: picture

) is not how the author wished it, though this is just my view as a reader. But it does hold some water, no? We could even switch the ordering around to make it even closer to the original format like so:

page2: picture | page1: text
page3: text

What do you think? Oh and the offer, of me doing it if translators too busy translating, still stands. Zero2001 01:50, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

My opinion: remove the stupid text under the pictures and "Match the pictures' locations to the text lines most suited for them."

That's how I do it for every series Vaelis 07:53, 29 April 2011 (UCT)

I'm not too busy translating, I'm too busy reading other things. Just because I translate this fanatically doesn't mean I don't have a mountain of other things to read/watch. As it stands, I'm practicing my Japanese by reading Mayo Chiki!, which is kind of a weird order, but that's irrelevant.

My opinion: I don't care enough to argue about it. If you're so horribly against putting it down there, then change it, but as I translate, I'm going to keep doing it the way it is currently. If you want to change it, then just do so after I put it in. - YoakeNoHikari 18:09, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

That's fine with me. So to confirm, I can set the picture next to the related text while revising and there won't be an edit war over it, right? Cause that's really scary. This one time... Oh well that's... well, forget that. Anyway, I have permission to match text with pictures while revising, right? Zero2001 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, can I? Can I? Can I? Pleeeease? (Hoppity, hoppity, hop) Zero2001 18:42, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

At this point, I couldn't care less. If such a trivial thing irks you so badly, then by all means, go ahead and change it. I certainly won't be wasting time and effort to change it back. - YoakeNoHikari 19:05, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Thank you! (Nyari) Zero2001 19:14, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Fuuma's speech to be changed

I would like to change all of Fuumas "I" to "Oneself"/"myself" or "this one". Anything along those lines represent the "Sessha" she uses to refer to herself. I would like opinions on this matter, for while "Myself/oneself" is my favorite, it should be the most easily-read one that prevails.

--Novium 22:59, 2 May 2011 (UCT)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2527&p=82653#p82653

Forum backlink.

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An example would make things more clear. Though personally I think it a pretty good idea. It does conform to the ancient/honorable/humble manner of speaking. Zero2001 18:46, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

*Facepalm*. You know what, let's just change all of Patra's "I"s to "My Majesty". Also, "Myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "Me myself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," "This unworthy one hasn't been able to meet with you for a while."

I'm not budging. This is not open to discussion. How does a servant refer to himself in front of his lord in English? "Your lord master, your servant hasn't grown enough crops this year."?. That's what somebody says when they speak to God. - YoakeNoHikari 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

---

Yoake also has a point. But check this page out as well. It might help. Illeism. Just keeping an open mind here. I mean fansubbing translators usually do try and keep the Japanese manner of speech in their work rather than completely going English. The exotic manner is rather appealing. Just a thought though. Zero2001 19:08, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

I have an idea of how to completely retain the meaning. I write warawa or sessha and then link to the wikipedia page. That sound good? - YoakeNoHikari 19:28, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

That is also a good idea. AH! Found it! This link would be better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns. For Archaic references like sessha appending #Archaic_personal_pronouns would help (subsection link) Zero2001 19:36, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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I was actually joking because that's amazingly retarded and nobody really cares enough, but, whatever floats your boat. Good luck fitting warawa in when I used me rather than I to refer to her. - YoakeNoHikari 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, I'm being rude on purpose. I feel that the English language has no way of showing how bad of an idea I think this is if I don't resort to vulgarity. Rather, 'better; is a comparative phrase, and since I never actually mentioned a noun to which to compare to, a better word would be 'good'. At any rate, これは全然ひどい、全然無意味、全然迷惑なことって絶対変わらず。 - YoakeNoHikari 19:47, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

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I see. But you also do have a point. Not everyone would be able to understand right off the bat that way. Oh well. By the way they actually did used to say "My liege, your servant requests permission to withdraw." or "Your servant would like to beg forgiveness for his tardiness." Rankings in the Royal court did actually effect the manner of speech greatly. Zero2001 19:54, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't make Fuuma say 'your student'. Please. Please. Please. Please. Fansubbers can translate how they want, the seas could boil and the Earth would crack, but don't make a ninja call herself 'your student' in front of Kinji. There's an t/l note already, can we let it go? I'll make a concession and expand on it as well as adding a link.- YoakeNoHikari 20:03, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

Naze nara... kore wa zenzen hidoi, zenzen muimi, zenzen meiwaku na koto ka? LOL. Jodan desu. Yes explaining in more detail in the Translation Notes and References pages is also another good idea/option. Actually I think it is the best one yet. Zero2001 20:10, 3 May 2011 (UCT)

---

There is one short reference. But seriously Yoake, please consider what I am proposing seriously. I'd like to stress that I am not attacking your translations here; I'm giving an opionion, not demanding word-by-word translations. If this insults you, I apologize for not putting it in kinder words. But I won't have you being rude without properly hearing me out. It is demeaning.

Now, back to the matter itself:

There are archaic english that would properly convey the nuance of her speech; and I belive it would be worth the effort to try getting it across. Now, I don't want to be harsly spoken, and I respect you work Yoake - In fact I really enjoy it. I just think we should be able to work something out to make it more along the authors intentions.I myself am not a native speaker, but I can see how:

"Oneself hasn't been able to meet with you for a while," should be written as "One has not been able to meet Instuctor for a while", reflecting the inpersonal part of sessha, and the second-part reference to oneself. Hasn't and the like are actually a good idea in my opinion, but they can be written to make a point of reflecting speech-patterns instead of as a rule. As for Patra, aren't a royal "We" sufficient to reflect her nature coupled with a notice in the text?

In fact, most light novels translations fail on this part and I think everyone here could try to figure something out together instead of bashing the notion. Is that too much to ask for from a free wiki? I sure don't think so.

Is this insufficient? I think that we should be able to see merit in this proposal.

With respect / --Novium 00:07, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

Well done, great explanation. Strong points. What do you think Yoake? There is some weight in the arguments is there not? Indeed such ways of speaking have been used in ancient literature as well as medieval times. And yes, in English the use of the words "We" and "Us" are plural forms however they were used by royals to refer to themselves (them being the leader/representative of their people probably brought on that effect). The use of plural form is regarded as a sign of great respect in many languages. That is a hard fact. Humility also meant referring to oneself in the third-person. The arguments are indeed sound. Are they not? Zero2001 00:27, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

A famous example of the use of "One" and "Oneself" for self referral is the character of Andrew Martin in the film Bicentennial Man. It chronicles the story of a robot and his journey into humanity. Before being ordered by his master to use "I" Andrew referred to himself as "one" or "oneself" as originally programmed to do so. It's a wonderful and beautiful story, you guys should try seeing it sometime. Zero2001 02:35, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

No.

Third person referral has a completely different meaning in Japanese. Since there is no equivalent for one, third person referral through using their names such as Riko saying "Riko" instead of I is a very feminine style of speech. As such, I'm not willing to use any third person. Go look at the forum. - YoakeNoHikari 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I've read the forum posts. Now I understand why "One" or "Oneself" is not used here for "Sessha". It might be equivalent in some respects but not exactly. I see. I learned something new. Zero2001 13:50, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I can agree with the royal "we". That's it. = YoakeNoHikari 15:14, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

See, discussions can actually help improve oneself if you see them in a certain way. Zero2001 16:10, 4 May 2011 (UCT)

I am not a translator or even an editor and therefore have less value than the dirt on your shoes. But in light of my self-deprecation I hope you will accept my opinion. I agree with Yoake. Even someone referring to themselves as 'we' is a little weird to read in English, since it is not something that anyone ever does, unless they are a faggot. (forgive me) Imagine someone calling themselves we... If you want to create a suitably "exotic" atmosphere I think including suffixes after names, and leaving some nouns untranslated (but obviously in romaji) is good enough. -blackfaia

That's only because there are very few countries nowadays where kings and queens reign in full power (England has royalty but they're only figureheads). However, the royal terms "we" and "us" have been historically proven to be used. Pity English doesn't have honorific terms for the word "you" other than "Thee". Just an info tip. Not trying to revive this talk. Zero2001 03:45, 28 May 2011 (UCT)

Question about Translation Notes

Why are the translation notes and references on a separate page when they can be even more easily shown as a list at the bottom of each chapter via use of the ref tag? It's so bothersome to have to either navigate to a new page or open it in a new tab or window just to see a small note. Using the reference tag allows for in-page navigation (ie: new page doesn't need time to load, screen just zeros in on the reference or back to text without page loading). So why? Zero2001 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UCT)

Well its even more bothersome if you have to look up these references yourself. HnA is a light novel that has a substantial number of references and allusions to famous people, furthermore it is up to the translators creed. Also how is it that difficult to click on translation notes that simply opens a new page? Unless the readers are just being lazy. This really seems like a trivial matter to me. -Hiro Hayase 16:47, 23, May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well. Readers are lazing around, according to the elderly. LOL. But seriously, as a reader I would prefer having the translation notes at the bottom of the page rather than opening a new page. It might be lazy but it is faster in loading/navigation. If it's a problem of too much trouble I'd be happy to do it for you guys. I just think making a whole new/separate page for those notes is wasteful. "A new page + data" takes more space than simply "data at the bottom of an already existing page". Zero2001 21:36, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

Well, it might be useful when you transform it unto a PDF format. Speaking of PDF, can someone go edit V2? きら 23:06, 23 May 2011 (UCT)

I can edit HnA volume 2 since I have nothing else to do atm Kira0802. Here's my opinion as a reader: just leave it as it is, this is such a trivial matter. If the reader wants such high-quality material, then they could learn the language and simply buy the light novels. Also, note that some translators do not bother making said these references at all, whether its the translation notes or foot notes at the bottom. -Hiro Hayase 00:10, 24, May 2011 (UCT)

Sorry, but learning the language takes years of hard work. Plus not every country has access to places that actually sell the light novels. The reason people come to online light novel, manga and anime sites is because they don't want to wait. But even if it does seem like a trivial thing, there are benefits to it:

1. People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)
2. Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)
3. Internal links are automatically generated when using ref tag making it easier for the translator while writing.
4. Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an already existing page)

I'd be happy if you can give me points that can legitimately favor leaving the translation notes on a separate page. If it's just because of the trouble of doing the work I said I can do it. Zero2001 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Instead of worrying about the convenience of foot notes vs translation notes, editing takes priority. There are still a number of HnA volumes and chapters that still needs editing and proofreading. That should be your first responsibility as an editor. Although if you still feel so strongly about this issue, then its best to take it to the forums. The translators and supervisors get the last say in regards to this issue. Hiro Hayase 17:31, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Here's my suggestion. If you're so bothered by this, Zero, then we can make a short reference at the bottom. If you want a more detailed, then we'll use the TL note&ref. Kira 18:07, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Let's look at the different points:

"1. People won't have to wait for a whole new page to load. (Not everyone has high speed DSL.)" -> the page with the translation's note are only text, it's really small.

"2. Navigating back and forth between translation notes and text is easier. (See next point for reason)" -> if it's well done, you can easily go back and forth between the two. I know it's not the case right now but the editors should learn how to do it, it's not that hard.

"3. Internal links are automatically generated when using ref tag making it easier for the translator while writing." -> it's not the translator's job but the editor's job.

"4. Website space is conserved. (Size of New Page + Translation Notes > Size of Translation notes on an already existing page)" -> who cares?

Anyway you can look at every BT projects and I'm almost sure that all of them put reference notes on a separate page and personally I like it this way. I don't want to see tl notes who pollute the bottom of the page of the translation. So if you want an argument then it's aesthetic, and I always privilege it. Vaelis 18:45, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Sword Art Online doesn't and I think it looks good. But as to your counters:

1. Even if the page is small it still takes time to load. Time which could be further shortened by using the ref tag. The ref tag exists for this reason.
2. Why bother doing something the more complex way when you can do it the easier way. Oh... and there is no way to make a backlink to the referring text unless you actually make subsections in the chapters when using different pages for the translation notes (Something that will mess up the natural ordering of the chapter). But ref tagging allows not only to generate an automatic link to the note but a backlink to the referring text. Ref tagging is a legit and popular way to add reference notes, used in all wikias and wikipedia sites as well. This site seems to be a model of those and ref tags are here as well. So why not use it??? Furthermore it will allow for a more interactive experience. People can scroll down to the references and use the back link to check the referring text as they see fit. (ie: using the link for reference 1 but then catching sight of the next reference note 2 and using the backlink to check the referred text for that note. Not everyone just reads through the whole thing once, you know).
3. Translation notes are the translator's job. But that's not even a valid point. So what if it was the editor's job. I'm not talking about external links here like names like Genghis Khan, I'm talking mainly about the translation notes that should normally appear at the bottom of the page for easy referral and its links [1] [2] [3]. I'm saying ref tagging makes not only the translator but the editor's job easier by taking the linking job off their hands. So why not use it? Plus the [1] [2] [3] are quite obviously a mimicry of the referral system. That's how the referral links are shown.
4. "Who cares" is definitely not a valid argument. Isn't it always better to strive for advancement? Such terms only seek to arrest making something better. Why not just open your mind to the possibilities rather than closing it. I do have good and valid points. Don't shoot them down with such terms, it sounds wrong.

Finally I apologize if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack. That was not my intention. I only wished for something that actually allows for an improvement to the current system. Well mainly it is the backlinking. But it also is true that it saves website space, is that not a good thing? Saving space means more data can be saved, no? Well basically we will only be the space of the page container that will be reduced but every little bit helps, does it not? And complex coding can be avoided, is that not better? All one has to do is write so: <ref>Enter translation note here</ref> where the text that should refer is; instead of writing the external link [http://www.baka-tsuki.com/???] and then writing the translation notes in the page it refers to. Give it a thought, which process is more complex??? Also I don't thing any two humans have the exact same aesthetic sense. Why not think about the benefits of the ref system. And tell me of the benefits of the current system. I'm sure there must be some. I always concede when there are more benefits for using another system. Zero2001 23:04, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Also there is one more point I'd like to make, though I'm not 100% sure about it. I think that the ref system is properly transferred during the use of template insertions like compiling into Full Text pages. I'm sure that problem was addressed during the development of the ref system. Though we might have to run some tests to make sure. But hey, it will solve the problem in the full text version's references if I'm right, right? Though I would like to point out that I not 100% sure about it. Maybe 85%. Zero2001 23:11, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Okay I just checked SAO's Sword_Art_Online:Volume_4 page, the references do transfer seamlessly. That's point 5 for the ref system (100% sure now). Come on I'm sure there must be some positive points for letting the current system stay. No system is without benefits. Zero2001 23:20, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Hummmm....It starts to become a bit heated. So I recommend you to post it in the forums. Of course, posting politely will be asked. Kira 23:24, 24 May 2011 (UCT)

Yeah, you're right. I apologize for that. But you know. I'm not asking for a full change in the whole website. Just recommending a change in Hidan no Aria's pages. If everyone believes that there are valid reasons for the system to stay this way then that is fine with me as well. I just want to know the reasons and feel that they are valid enough. I proposed this system not because I like or dislike it but because I sincerely believe that the ref system is better than the current one. That's why I gave the four... oops five now, reasons that I felt were beneficial to everyone. All of my reasons are legit. They actually do help better the site. I'm not too familiar with forums though so, if you really do want to take it there, it's fine so long as you provide a link for me. I just want this discussion to be resolved by professionally discussing the pros and cons of both systems. Not personal like or dislike. I'm fine with things being the way they are, I just need to be persuaded that there are better reasons for it to stay like this. That's all. It's just that no one is actually bringing forth any pros for the current system so far. There must be some if people prefer it, right? But I won't take reasons like "It's too much hard work or bothersome to change things now." I've already said I'm willing to do all the work if the ref system is implemented (I'm a really hard worker). Also one reason such as it won't look good is not enough. You have to have at least as many points as I do. (Tension breaker: If thou wishest to dissuade me, telleth me what advantages the current system hath. LOL.) Zero2001 00:24, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

@Zero I think what some of them meant is that Editing takes priority, so can the editors fix the English first?

@Vaelis Well actually, I'm in the process of changing my projects from Translator's Notes page to using "ref"s. All my new translations use "ref"s. ^_^

Just to share my experiences, initially I didn't like it because I have less control on the formatting. I used to use a separate page and provide back links to navigate back to the page the reader was on. But I found that the back links will work wrongly on the FULL TEXT version. Of course, I can use some programming tricks and some of the new wiki's extensions to overcome this maybe, but using "references" solve this problem easily, since I put my "Translator's Notes header" and <references/> under <noinclude></noinclude> at the footer. The FULL TEXT version will then not have reincludes of the "References", and I can just add the <references/> at the bottom of the FULL TEXT page easily. The backlinks are generated automatically. Another trivial advantage is that I can use the "name" id to share the same reference across a page (though normally I don't do that). Oh yeah, when I read using my tablet over a intermittent 3G connection, I'd prefer not to open a separate page. But the key issue I wanted to solve is the problem of lacking seamless backlinks from the notes. You can check out Itsuten Volume 1 or Daiden Volume 1 on how I utilized it. ^_^ --larethian 01:27, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I agree editing takes priority. I am working side by side the posted translation to fix spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors. I even put in many of the external links that others miss. I'm saying I can do both jobs. That's just how much of a hard worker I am. And yeah. I had seen the backlink problem in the full text version. It comes due to having two reference lists, one the full pages own generated one, the second from the chapter pages themselves. I had already known that the noinclude tag makes sure that the text encapsulated is not shown when the page is encapsulated in another using {{Insert page name here}}. So I had thought that that would solve the problem. I actually have a long history of wikipedia and wiki editing spanning 5 years, and templates are my expertise. I'm glad there is someone in my support. Thanks. Zero2001 11:36, 25 May 2011 (UCT)

I leave it to the editors, but unless I take the time to figure out this wiki works, (I'm not,) I'm going to continue to use off-page references. Actually, to tell the truth, your attitude makes me want to stab my eyeballs out. Not for any particular reason. Don't feel obliged to care, either. - YoakeNoHikari 09:05, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Now, now, I agree I have suggested more than a few changes, but I had zero, and I mean 0%, ill intentions. And using the ref tag is not that hard. It will make your job easier, Yoake. So don't be so stubborn and try to think of all the possibilities that this site has to offer. Zero2001 10:32, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

I don't particularly mind not having off-page notes, rather, I agree with you, I like how seamless the transition is between the note and the text. However, I can hardly say the same for how you're going about with this. You're saying that you're doing this for the betterment of the site and not your personal preference, which is full retard, because this kind of thing is completely personal and subjective. It's like trying to decide whether Monet's or Picasso's works are better. Personally, I think a five year old draws better than Picasso. Or, Hemingway and Tolkien. Personally, I think Hemingway writes like a five year old. What you're doing is trying to provide reasons as to why you think Hemingway writes like a five year old, and then blowing other's points as invalid or 'not a reason' because they're subjective when that's exactly what you're doing. Then, you say: "I'm a hard worker," as if Hiro doesn't do his fair share of editing. And, how the hell does it make my job easier? What? It makes it easier for me to understand Japanese? - YoakeNoHikari 10:51, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

Rather than editing two pages and switching between them you can add the translation note on the same page, at the reference line, seamlessly. That's how your job can become easier. By cutting down the time it takes for you to write the external link to the translation page, opening the page and then writing the translation note at it's place. These three steps are cut down to one <ref>Insert Transation note here</ref>. I never said anyone was not a hard worker. I merely mentioned myself and my intentions were not to belittle anyone. I never shot down any of the points except the one where the words "Who cares?" were mentioned. If I was really as you say I am I would not have bothered with this discussion, at all. Instead I did bother with it. The only reason I really mentioned being a hard worker was to remove one problem: "Who would be willing to spend time on changing things?" You must admit that is a reason that influences most changes. So by saying I will do it and telling just how much of a hard worker I am, I am preventing the following thoughts: "It's too troublesome." "I don't wanna do it." "It'll take too long." If it really was for my personal preference I would not have given such rational reasons for the change. Now, I would like for you to give me rational reasons as to why the current system is better than the reference system, which is used by some projects on this site. I'm an not adverse to having the current system, as long as you can actually give me some real points for it. And besides, it's not like I will suddenly start converting anything without approval. I don't see why you're being so hostile. Zero2001 16:16, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

You want to hear what might be a real point to Vaelis? "I like it." Do we need any other points? All your points are just things that you like, therefore, his point carries the exact same weight as all your points combined. - YoakeNoHikari 17:08, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

What I'm trying to say is, rather than constructing this as a rational argument, which it's impossible to do so properly, it's a matter of personal preference. I mean, this decision mostly affects the readers, so the best thing to would be to ask them. Since you're good at wikis, is it possible to organize a poll or something in the front page? Rather, this is something that would be better measured with a majority, rather than points, which is a rather selfish way of doing things. It's simply not taking everyone's opinions into account, which is what something like this should do, rather than with rational points. - YoakeNoHikari 17:48, 30 May 2011 (UCT)

But a poll without understanding the pros and cons of both systems just seems like a blind popularity contest to me (Example: A beauty contest with the girls hidden). Sorry, but my specialty in wikis is templates, what you're suggesting might involve bots and other complex mechanisms. I'm afraid I'm currently incapable of doing that. Even if it is my preference at least I did give pros for the reference system. Up until now, other than a small mention on the font style there has been absolutely no pros given forward for the current system despite my asking over and over (And I did ask over and over). Well, here's a compromise, how about putting this discussion on hold until all the translations are finished? It would give time to mull things over. I've seen giving a break to discussions helps clear up some things. Even I might change my mind. Or would you rather we keep on discussing? It does cut into translation/editing time doesn't it? Zero2001 07:30, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

The thing is, this is supposed to be a popularity contest. In essence, this change is based on what people like, whether they like having an off-page reference, or <ref>. I'm not really translating regularly, as exams are coming up, and it's not like I'm working set hours, so it's not wasting my translation time, as such. - YoakeNoHikari 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

True. But every popularity contest has to have the subjects displayed and their advantages and disadvantages noted. But nobody even bothers to point out any advantages to the current system. Zero2001 - User Talk:Zero2001 - 14:07, 31 May 2011

Advantages: Translator can put whatever the hell she wants without inhibition XD. Doesn't mess up the aesthetics of the page, (for some.) Allows for additional information to be put where necessary. Makes it easier to keep track of. - YoakeNoHikari 16:27, 31 May 2011 (UCT)

Nice debate. Well even if you do a poll I don't know if anyone will vote. You could just make a thread about this and stick a poll in there if you want. But, as a reader, I can clearly say that having refs on the same page is better. Honestly though, it makes nearly no difference whatsoever, majority of readers won't care too much either way. Since this is the case, whatever is more convenient for the translator should be used. I mean... this is baka-tsuki. You have minimal contact with your readers anyways, so just do what you want.--Blackfaia 00:04, 12 June 2011 (UCT)

quick question

Who's on the cover of volume 8? I don't recognize her. --Saganatsu 06:32, 5 June 2011 (UCT)

See here: ***SPOILER*** http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3574281#post3574281 ***SPOILER*** --Remotemine

Problem: Incomplete Translations

So yea, the problem I would like to address is the one regarding incomplete translations.

The translators have not finished volume 8 yet they start on 9? How will the readers get a full experience if they can't read the whole thing?

I would love to translate but unfortunately, I'm not fluent in Japanese. I'm not here to bitch, I'm just trying to resolve a problem. This post may become irrelavant as the translations progress, but as of now, I see incomplete translations.

Thanks for your attention,

-Kuro Light XIII

Same here, I would love to continue reading, but unfortunately there aren't any translations. So please, if you can translate it. I would help if i could ...

As I posted on Kuro's talk page, the reason why people translate after an unfinished volume is that we should keep the greatest constancy possible. Meaning that there's a max of 2 translators per volume, and preferably only one. Kira (Talk) 16:31, 9 April 2012 (CDT)

Thx for the reply. So that means that volume 8 is currently with no translator... can you give a date by which the tranlation is complete(if you can manage to get a translator for that volume). If you can I would be very grateful...

There still hasn't been any progress with the translations of vol 8 since I last checked... please someone translate it,, im begging you -KuroLightXIII

man guys i love the anime guys and was so excited becuz of the light novel but found out that it only till 8 volume are complete....im on my

knees mann to anyone who are willing to take time off from real life to translate this piece of novel... honestly im being a bitch here becuz

im irritated it like watching clannad after story without watching it ending or angel beats without the tearful ending or code geass and just

watching the 1st season... but im still thankful for translating this work till volume 7 - loyal fan

As much as I want to agree with you guys about the incomplete translations, I'm asking you to please stop this kind discussion. Asking them to quickly finish translating can be a very rude thing (it depends on how you view it though) and this is something that I've recently understood as well. The translators are doing this without any type of monetary reward and requires a lot of sacrifice on their part. As those that cannot even contribute to the novel's translation, we show our appreciation to them by saying thanks and try to give them some moral support with words but that's it. You should understand as well how hard it is to cope with real life matters especially since it's more important than translating LNs for free. The only thing we can do now is pray that someone will be willing to complete the translations and at the same time show our appreciation to the ones who finished the earlier volumes. If you guys still want the translations to be finished, you can try asking some translators that's almost finished with their project to continue with this one once they're done but don't persist if they refuse. They've done their part and that's more than enough. A more definite solution would be to learn the Japanese language ourselves and buy the LNs. This way you don't bother the translators and you're also supporting the authors who we should ultimately give thanks to for writing the LNs in the first place. - Cataccountant

Hello, I am not currently a translator for baka tsuki, but I would like to become one. I have 2 years of Japanese schooling, 5 months of living there on exchange, and a ridiculous amount of anime that I have watched. I am a native English speaker with a tendency to read every book I enjoy within a few hours, so there shouldn't be many problems with vocabulary. I would like to try translating Hidan no Aria if possible, unfortunately I have not yet found a local store to pick up the untranslated volumes. If I am able to get access to the Japanese version I would happily work on translation. Please let me know if this would be possible, and if there is another way to get the raw versions. Thanks, - 0Starkller0

@0Starkller0 --Before I bought my real copies, I always found my JP raw volumes over at jCafe. Just a few weeks ago they were still available there so you should still be able to find them pretty quickly. Hope that helps a bit. Good Luck! --Fallton13 Thanks, I got my copy of volume 10 already, 8 and 11 are in the mail. Ordered them from kinokuniya online store. - 0Starkiller0

Hey, i was wondering if you are really going to translate HnA and if yes are you going to finish volume 8 or jump right into one of the untranslated volumes? - Daeverius

I hope translator can quickly finish volume 8 and 9. because I can not read in Japanese, sincerly I beg for translator to finish it. Thanks.

Volume 14, HNA will probably be published this month. There's no one to translate the volumes 10,11,12,13? Please. Thank you.

Image Editing

Went ahead and edited the images from volume 1 to volume 7, I'll continue with them as translators finish their job translating, so once volume 8 and 9 get properly finished i'll work on the images for these volumes. --Krytyk (talk) 19:37, 15 December 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the hard work. I'll wait vol 8 & 9 eagerly.

Thanks for the translation. I'll be eagerly awaiting the volumes 10, 11, 12 and 13

I hope the translation vol. 10 finish soon. I'am looking forward for it. thanks Zerocrack (talk) 21:06, 10 June 2013 (CDT)

10th Volume

How come the second chapter is already done while chapter 1 has not seen major advance since last August? --Kemm (talk) 05:54, 7 February 2013 (CST)

Because the ones working are different Translators | Koakuma (talk) 07:02, 7 February 2013 (CST)

AfterWord/Author's Notes

Hey guys just curious as to why there aren't any of the afterwords/author's notes for HnA at all. I noticed that they actually do exists, and I am wondering if its on purpose or is it just forgotten? I wonder if anyone else would be interested in doing them with me if you guys think we should add them in for completions sake. -- Royaloyalz (talk) 06:37, 8 February 2013 (CST)

I can't speak on behalf of previous translators to say why they haven't been done, but they definitely exist. They're really quite short, so I'll see about taking a stab at them. --Hiyono (talk) 09:56, 8 February 2013 (CST)

So.

What would it take for a commissioned translation effort? I'm willing to offer. LB_Kasen (talk) 17:24, 5 May 2013 (CDT)

Original Sources

Currently I'm only working as a full-time editor. If anyone can point me to Chinese sources for chapters 10-14, I shall translate for you guys ASAP. Just saying, the project supervisor has dropped this project though the translators and editors are still at work. Please bear with it.

- KanzakiAria eating a peach bun while typing

Try to contact one of the translators, since the projects at this wiki are mainly translated fro chinese, with the direct translation from japanese on second place. (Though there's always someone to check the correct terms from japanese sources. --Kemm (talk) 19:08, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Hi, please do not openly talk about "raws" which have a connotation of illegally scanned copyright infringement. In theory, you should own the actual book you're translating from. Anyway, if you're looking for Chinese sources, you should be aware of lightnovel.cn, which is sort of the Chinese equivalent of Baka-Tsuki:

http://lknovel.lightnovel.cn/main/vollist/66.html

And Kemm: please do not insult translators such as js06, Teh_Ping, Tap, Code-Zero, hayashi_s, stellarroze, etc (just to name a few) who actually translate from Japanese to English. On what basis do you assert that Japanese translation is secondary? Even in the case of Hidan no Aria, YoakeNoHikari switched from Chinese to Japanese sources quite early on.

--Zzhk (talk) 19:46, 26 June 2013 (CDT)