Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume1 Chapter5

Part 1

I'll start out by opening two things for discussion. --Dohma (talk) 07:32, 23 July 2013 (CDT)

Orba, not losing out in being irritated... (オルバも負けず苛立っていたのは)
I can’t find a good English equivalent. What it means is that Orba didn’t lose from Fedom in being irritated. Is there a better way to put this?

“Theresia, how old did you become?” (テレジアは、いくつになったのだったか？)
I first thought it was to be supposed Theresia's birthday or something, but it's a more polite way of saying 'how old are you?'. Basically 'how old have you become (over the years)'. If someone has a better way of saying it like this, please tell me.

For the first, I would suggest "Orba, no less irritated"; also, as an incidental note, that would be 'didn't lose to Fedom in being irritated' rather than 'didn't lose from Fedom in being irritated'. For the second, I suspect "How old are you now?" is slightly better than 'How old are you?', as it preserves the 'acknowledgement of the other having been a different age at a previous meeting', whereas 'How old are you?' is more appropriate when meeting someone for the first time. -Multipartite (talk) 08:04, 23 July 2013 (CDT)

Those are great suggestions Multipartite.Tasear (talk))

• I agree, thanks. I edited the text by your suggestions. --Dohma (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2013 (CDT)

I guess I should post the responses to your inlines here from now on. And what better way to take a break from translating than to edit! Well, Chapter 2 is......slowly coming along. --Detalz (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2013 (CDT)
Thinking it was surely important for people to look at oneself, something seemed to trouble her heart. Raw: 振り返ればあれは確かに本人たちにとっては大事だったのだと思える悩みに胸を焦がす、美しい少女の姿。

• 振り返る is a conjugated verb meaning 'to turn around, to turn one's head'. Here's a rough translation from my part, "It was apparent to anyone who so much as turned around that she was worriedly longed for something precious to her; it was the form of a beautiful girl." (Note: You might have moved 'beautiful girl' part to the previous sentence.)

• Yeah, I split the sentence in two and moved the 'beautiful girl' part up front because that was what the beginning of the sentence refers to. I combined the sentences again and used your suggestion. Thanks. --Dohma

“Well… when you reach the latter half of your forties, you eventually stop counting. Then it’s natural to look forward to continue on at that age forever.”

• There's nothing wrong here, but consider using 'normal' in place of 'natural' for certain instances of 当然. It might be me, but the author overuses it more than necessary.

• No you're right, the author uses other terms a lot too (I actually just think it's the difference between Japanese and English) that will sound strained if you keep translating them 'correctly'. --Dohma

“As for tomorrow, you’ll do anything I say even if it’s a depressing play. Don’t let me receive a scolding because of you before the first battle – after that you can get carried away and do whatever you want. So, I’m going! You’ll be occupied, don’t you think?”

• Pretty sure it's Orba, and not Fedom speaking. That's why you're so confused. I recommend "Scoot scoot. You're a busy man, right?" for the last two sentences.

• I was actually unsure whether it was Orba or Fedom saying this sentence. The second sentence puzzled me, so I opted for Fedom. However, Orba being the one speaking makes more sense and I somehow made it work. --Dohma

Sorry to bother everyone. "But when his eyes made contact with flagship’s captain" This is what the original reads. I believe that it should read "But when his eyes made contact with the flagship’s captain" because the word "flagship" isn't the name of the ship it needs the definite article "the". Please correct me if I'm wrong. - shirofune

• Don't worry about bothering us. Discussions of revisions are welcome, and you're free to post them here is you're unsure. You were right, and it was probably just a typo on Dohma's part. Thanks for fixing it. --Detalz (talk) 19:33, 31 July 2013 (CDT)

Part 2

There's some expressions in this chapter which I could use a little help on suggestions. --Dohma (talk) 15:25, 2 August 2013 (CDT)

• 「ああ、あいわかり申した」 'Ahh, I understand'

It's actually much more polite, like 'duly understood'. But the latter feels a bit strange in this context, because Fedom is higher in rank than the one he speaks to. Leaving it like this could also just be fine. It's just that Fedom speaks rather politely when talking with certain people, and rather impolitely when talking to others - especially Orba.

• "Ahh, your words have been received," is the only other possible phrase I can think of. It is a litte indirect, but can be considered more polite. My guess for his being polite, is because Oubary carries a message from the emperor, and to be rude to a messenger is to insult the person who sent it. --Detalz

• About the "Ahh, I understand" bit, I believe it is natural that Fedom is polite because Oubary is also in the same room within earshot. It would arouse suspicion if Fedom were impolite because at that time Orba was still pretending to be the prince. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know a word of Japanese. ~shirofune

• Looked it up some more, but Fedom is not being overly polite after all, he's just being formal - which isn't strange considering the circumstances. あいわかり (相分かる) is just a more formal way of saying I understand but with the explicit meaning that you comprehend something. 申した is a formal way of saying "I do". So he says something like 'I do understand', and he's saying it this way to indicate that he understands they can't go to the banquet because the Emperor's letter is of more importance here. I like "your words have been received" but I think it strays too far from the original meaning, so I simply made a minor change to "Ah yes, I understand." The subtle formality will be a bit lost in the translation, but that's probably how people would react in English as well. --Dohma

• 「頼む」 'Leave it to me'

It's a rather free translation. It could mean 'leave it to me', 'count on me', 'rely on me' or anything in this regard. I'm assuming it's Oubary saying this, but it could also be Orba I suppose (then it would be 'I'll rely on you'). However, in that case I suspect it would have been よろしく instead, and it wouldn't have been on a separate line.

• I think Orba is one who says it. The reason for the different line is probably because of a pause between "Yeah..." and "I'll leave it to you." Also, Orba speaks this way because he knows he has to act the role of the prince just as Fedom wants to, in the presence of others. If it were Oubary speaking, 任せる would have been much more appropriate. I can't actually imagine a person of lower rank saying 頼む to one of higher rank. --Detalz

• Yeah, Orba saying this fits better. And 頼む sort of comes off as a way of saying 'thanks' which would be strange in Orba's regard. Changed it. --Dohma

• 勝ち残り 'taking the leftover fights'

Also see the reference note. It’s a term for someone who wins by laying low and then take the finishing blow when necessary, like a kill-stealer. Suggestions for a nice English idiom or expression are welcome.

• I actually like it the way it is. The only idioms I can think of remotely close to this are "taking the easy way out" and "reaping other's rewards". --Detalz

• I'll keep it like this then, and leave the reference note for those interested. --Dohma

• へそを曲げられても、のちのち厄介だ 'It’ll be troublesome in the future, if I get him angry.'

Literally 'to bend someone’s bellybutton', which means ‘to make someone angry/irritated’. Does anyone have a nice English idiom for this? Because just leaving it like this doesn't really give much credit to the original in my opinion. I considered 'ruffle one's feathers' but that seems a little too mild in this case.

• You could consider "get on his bad side" or "get under his skin." --Detalz

• "get under his skin" was what I was looking for, thanks! --Dohma

Oubary was having cold sweat under his clothes 服の下にじっとりと冷たい汗を搔いていた It says this literally (Oubary had damp cold sweat running under his clothes), but 'under his clothes' sounds a bit strange in my opinion. Dohma

• Yea, it definitely sounds weird worded like that. I would go with something like "He secretly broke off into a cold sweat." --Detalz (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2013 (CDT)

• Then I'll go with that. But, just to make sure, isn't it "break out in a cold sweat"? --Dohma (talk) 07:43, 14 August 2013 (CDT)

• Yep, that's the original phrase. I like to use "broke off" for past tense, since it usually implies it was triggered by some event. "He was secretly breaking out into a ocld sweat" or the one above, because the idiom can also be used to describe perspiration while ill or with related sleep troubles. So I like to make that minor indication by changing 'out' to 'off'. Either one works. --Detalz (talk) 12:12, 14 August 2013 (CDT)

---

Hello, reader here/wandering editor. In this sentence: “It might be an idea to send an envoy during the march, in the crown prince’s name.” I think the context implies that an adverb is used before idea. I am not sure which exact adverb it is but it should be better or safe. So it will look like “It might be a better idea to send an envoy during the march, in the crown prince’s name.” or “It might be a safer idea to send an envoy during the march, in the crown prince’s name.” I just noticed this and is totally up to you guys to change it or leave it. Thanks for translating this interesting Light Novel.Stratos (talk) 07:42, 18 August 2013 (CDT)

• The raw literally says 'sending an envoy in the crown prince's name may (also) be one of our hands' (皇太子の御名で使者を送るのも手のひとつでしょう), but it is sort of said as a suggestion and there's no English equivalent for this usage of 'hand', which is why I translated it as 'it might be an idea'. But looking back on it now, "One option might be... etc." probably fits the situation better. Thanks for the comment. --Dohma (talk) 05:26, 19 August 2013 (CDT)

Part 3

non-commissioned officer (下士官)

• In Edo-Japan this was a term for one who was enlisted as an officer, but not of noble birth. I believe it’s also the highest rank a commoner could get. I’m not sure if it’s the same, or if he’s just one rank lower than an officer in Mephian terms. Non-commissioned officer sounds a bit strange I think (but it's what my dictionary says, next to 'petty officer' and 'enlisted officer'), but I wonder if there's a better English equivalent. Suggestions anyone?

He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on whoever bound his hands and feet, and whoever was pulling the strings. 誰がいつ自分の手足になってくれるのか、誰がいつ自分の手足を逆に引っぱるのか、それもはっきりしない状態では動きようがなかった。

• I actually translated this very freely because I didn't really understand the above expression in bold, this sounded best in my opinion considering the context.

"He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his hands and feet, and who would instead tie them up."; a more free translation might be "He wasn’t able to make a move with the situation unclear on who would become his limbs, and who would instead pull his legs out from under him.". To become someone's 手足 is like becoming their eyes--namely, to act according to their will and so doing aid them. The '逆に' is 'by contrast', and to (strongly) pull on one's limbs is like ashimatoi, namely (metaphorically) hindering one's free movement. He doesn't know who he can and can't rely on. -Multipartite (talk) 17:16, 21 August 2013 (CDT)