Prologue Rewording
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- Astral Realm
- quigonkenny
- Temporal Time Variant Entity
- Posts: 294
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Oh, thank Haruhi-sama I'm not the only one thinking of Douglas Adams every time Itsuki plays Basil Exposition and Kyon commentates. Maybe that's why my least favorite English dub voice of those announced is Itsuki's. I guess in my mind's eye, I see him speaking English with a proper British accent.Smidge204 wrote:Now, I didn't have much trouble understanding it the first time around, but I read a lot of dry technical text for a living and I'm also a Douglas Adams fan, so perhaps I'm an exception... I do think HolyCow's translation is a bit more natural, though.
=Smidge=
After I first read Melancholy, and told people about it, I would always present it as Douglas Adams, writing Harry Potter, set in a Japanese high school. Tanagawa has to be a HHGttG fan... Or maybe it's just all the HHGttG fans on the editing staff...
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- Astral Realm
Okay, after reading your version and the current version, I agree that a complete transplant isn't justified, though there are some adjustments I might want to adopt.
I think the difficulty in understanding Koizumi's explanation is in the explanation more than the translation. Some important points are left undiscussed. For example, Neither Koizumi nor Kyon brings up Kyon's memories, or lack thereof, between 'X', on the morning of December 18, and the afternoon of December 18 when Kyon falls on the steps.
What is the point of the fall? By the rules of this universe, Kyon could just "wake up" at any time with a different memory from the memory that goes with the timeline of where he wakes up. From his POV he would be in a different world, but from the world's POV he's suddenly a slightly different person with a different memory. In principle, he could have suddenly had memories of an alternate universe three day excursion just suddenly appear in his brain on the morning of the 18th. So what's the point of waking up on the 21st?
Well, it does reduce Kyon's cognitive dissonance, since he doesn't relive the three days, it's easier to accept the alternate universe as "real." However, Kyon can also take it as just a "bad dream" that Nagato has given him.
Sigh. It's not easy to keep disbelief suspended, it's not easy to avoid popping up to the level of recognizing the author as god.
But I keep trying.
So on what basis does Nagato "borrow" Haruhi's power? It has to be on the basis of acualizing Haruhi's unconscious intention, which we learn in Voume4 includes "taking care of the John Smith who would shake the world." I assume this means that on December 18 both Haruhi and Nagato think that Kyon might be happier in a normal life, and this creates the opening for Nagato's intervention.
Finally, on a different tangent, consider this claim by Nagato in Vol4 Ch4:
Is this really so? Or is it just that Nagato is cut off from the IDSE? Ryuko's behavior suggests this might be the case.
Anyway, Koizumi's analysis is far from complete, so it's bound to be confusing.
Nutcase
I think the difficulty in understanding Koizumi's explanation is in the explanation more than the translation. Some important points are left undiscussed. For example, Neither Koizumi nor Kyon brings up Kyon's memories, or lack thereof, between 'X', on the morning of December 18, and the afternoon of December 18 when Kyon falls on the steps.
What is the point of the fall? By the rules of this universe, Kyon could just "wake up" at any time with a different memory from the memory that goes with the timeline of where he wakes up. From his POV he would be in a different world, but from the world's POV he's suddenly a slightly different person with a different memory. In principle, he could have suddenly had memories of an alternate universe three day excursion just suddenly appear in his brain on the morning of the 18th. So what's the point of waking up on the 21st?
Well, it does reduce Kyon's cognitive dissonance, since he doesn't relive the three days, it's easier to accept the alternate universe as "real." However, Kyon can also take it as just a "bad dream" that Nagato has given him.
Sigh. It's not easy to keep disbelief suspended, it's not easy to avoid popping up to the level of recognizing the author as god.
But I keep trying.
So on what basis does Nagato "borrow" Haruhi's power? It has to be on the basis of acualizing Haruhi's unconscious intention, which we learn in Voume4 includes "taking care of the John Smith who would shake the world." I assume this means that on December 18 both Haruhi and Nagato think that Kyon might be happier in a normal life, and this creates the opening for Nagato's intervention.
Finally, on a different tangent, consider this claim by Nagato in Vol4 Ch4:
Spoiler! :
Anyway, Koizumi's analysis is far from complete, so it's bound to be confusing.
Nutcase
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- Astral Realm
I belive the point of the fall was to facilitate making three day's worth of alternate history, not just for Kyon but for everyone. Putting Kyon is a coma for three days is somewhat similar to freezing him in time for three years... time-space needs to realign itself.
Perhaps I'll draw my own diagram later...
=Smidge=
Perhaps I'll draw my own diagram later...
=Smidge=
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- Astral Realm
In the endless summer scenario Nagato recalls every cycle, resetting thousands of times to the same point and I don't see why she couldn't share that reset with memory with Kyon.
I think the coma scenario is there give Haruhi et al. a "disappearance" of Kyon experience to match the disappearance of Haruhi et al. that Kyon has lived though. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all like that there. It's a psychic balance issue, not a mechanics of time travel issue.
Nutcase
I think the coma scenario is there give Haruhi et al. a "disappearance" of Kyon experience to match the disappearance of Haruhi et al. that Kyon has lived though. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all like that there. It's a psychic balance issue, not a mechanics of time travel issue.
Nutcase
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- Astral Realm
Interesting idea, but you don't stay unconscious in a hospital due to blood loss. It would be low blood pressure that causes the unconsciousness, and an IV with just some saline and other anti-shock treatment would fix that up. Besides, if Yuki can fix up an abdominal stab wound, she can get him prepped to wake up in less than three days. I assume he wakes up pretty much immediately after Yuki puts him into that time plane.
Nutcase
Nutcase
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- Astral Realm
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- Astral Realm
Your diagram doesn't include the journey back to January 2 of the January 2 party, which includes the brief stop on the afternoon of December 18. As I understand it, the January 2 Yuki pushes Kyon on the stairs, overwrites that Kyon with the stabbed Kyon and reestablishes Yuki's connection to the Data Entity. So the December 18 (reverted but unconnected) Yuki has some interaction with a Kyon who is a "dead man walking."
Perhaps this is part of the basis on which Koizumi senses that Haruhi is aware that "somebody did something" to cause Kyon's fall. She may sense some sort of shift in the energy between Yuki and Kyon. Since we have no narration from the POV of the overwritten Kyon, we don't know if he sensed anything. Since he's going to be overwritten anyway, it's for the best...
Having godlike power raises some interesting moral issues...
Nutcase
Perhaps this is part of the basis on which Koizumi senses that Haruhi is aware that "somebody did something" to cause Kyon's fall. She may sense some sort of shift in the energy between Yuki and Kyon. Since we have no narration from the POV of the overwritten Kyon, we don't know if he sensed anything. Since he's going to be overwritten anyway, it's for the best...
Having godlike power raises some interesting moral issues...
Nutcase
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- Astral Realm
Okay, so I did a remix of the prologue speech, using a lot of both your wording and BaKaFiSh's. Of course I tweaked some of it to my own tastes as well, for example replacing "picture" with "diagram" and "X'" with "X*", for example. The BaKaFiSh version was already quite understandable, so I'm going to let this sit and see if anybody else cares one way or the other before I maybe swap it in. I can't "see" it clearly any more right now.
You have the timeline going down, whereas the current version has it going up in Koizumi's diagram. I assume you're really sure about the down? It's the more natural direction to draw, of course.
Nutcase
You have the timeline going down, whereas the current version has it going up in Koizumi's diagram. I assume you're really sure about the down? It's the more natural direction to draw, of course.
Spoiler! :
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- Astral Realm
Okay, I tweaked it a little more and made the edit. On review, most of the changes were in my typical range of editing aggressiveness. Most of the less minor changes were based on HolyCow's version.
I've thrown in some "inchworm" tense shifting, here and elsewhere in the Prologue. Upon rereading a while later, it seems to blend in like a pinch of salt in the soup. At least that's how it is for me. So, since I like it better that way and nobody else is complaining, I'll continue like this.
Nutcase
I've thrown in some "inchworm" tense shifting, here and elsewhere in the Prologue. Upon rereading a while later, it seems to blend in like a pinch of salt in the soup. At least that's how it is for me. So, since I like it better that way and nobody else is complaining, I'll continue like this.
Nutcase