Rule Ratification: External Contributor Rules Version 1.0

[cloudii]

For this poll, vote ONLY on the:

• Baka-Tsuki External Contributor Rules
  
  Please consider these rules independently of the other rules that are still in draft stage.
  Also, assume the broken links lead to perfectly ideal and satisfactory pages.

Short Introduction:

There's pretty much no precedent for these rules written anywhere that I could reference. Hence, I pretty much had to write this from scratch.

People may or may not find it controversial, but let me explain a little bit first.

A). The concept of a "hosted project" has changed a lot over time. I don't know how much control they had in the past, but in this rendition of the rules I've placed a limit on the scope of their control. In other words, if a Hosted Translator translated volumes 1-3, they can't stop a Baka-Tsuki translator from translating volume 6. The Hosted Translator only has absolute control over volumes 1-3. Hosted Translator DOES NOT EQUAL Project Manager, in other words.

B). I've drafted these rules with the assumption that all "hosted projects" will eventually become hybrid projects. Why? Because hosted translators go inactive like everyone else. Eventually there's always going to be multiple translation groups or several Baka-Tsuki translators working on the same project. We never really accounted for this in the past.

C). I didn't mention this, but we never decided on the visibility status of hosted/linked/hybrid projects. I'm currently running with the assumption that everything that satisfies our >1 volume requirement goes on the sidebar (although theoretically sidebar is supposed to go away.......... eventually?). However, Oni seems ambivalent about this. How do people feel? Keep in mind that many "hosted projects" 6 years ago ended up becoming hybrid projects today (like OreImo).

With this settled, vote! <3


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(I merged this topic with an old one)

Spoiler! :

I've noticed recently that the definition of a Hosted Project seems to have changed over time.

Back in the old days, a Hosted Project meant the external TL group copy-pasted their translations onto BT. The classic example for this might be Fate/Zero. From there, the original external translators concurrently updated on their projects on BT, but often times BT editors would float around and make a few typo corrections. I can think of numerous other projects that followed this model.

On the contrary, we've recently seen a lot of linking-out on newer "hosted projects" (particularly with NanoDesu Projects). Technically, this has been going on like this for a very long time -- Baccano/Monogatari have been doing this for a while.

Regardless, I've noticed that a lot of individuals seem unsure about whether this follows the rules? Hosted Projects that are links instead of Wikitext? As far as I know of, we've never put together guidelines for Hosted Projects.

I personally don't have a problem with Baka-Tsuki functioning as an encyclopedia linking out translations on the Internet. I actually think it expands BT's influence, because it solidifies us as a one-stop hub were any light-novel reader can find all their translations. I'm kind of vain, but in the future I think it would be cool if Baka-Tsuki was the launch pad that users go to by instinct whenever they want to see if a translations exists. Wiki's function best as encyclopedias, you know?

Anyways, I'm personally okay with the linking. That's my personal opinion.

However.

I do think we should change the terminology/distinguish between the two, because they're very different.

The old Hosted Projects often underwent small contributions from the BT community, because it exists on BT as Wikitext.

However, the new link-outs honestly have no connection with BT at all. They can't even receive feedback or changes from the BT community. As such, it's not even proper to call them hosted projects since Baka-Tsuki doesn't "host" the physical translations themselves. If there's going to be many more of these projects in the future, I think we should distinguish between the two.

Say for example, for these link-out projects, can we have new terminology? Like:

Affiliated Project. vs Hosted Project.

Is this alright with people? I kind of wrote it in the one of the About/HELP pages I was drafting just so you guys could see for effect: here.

[Mystes]

TBH, we can simply put the projects we link out in a different category, as you suggested. We could put this category under the Teasers and instead of linking every chapter from BT, just drop a note on the project page like "This is also being translated by [Group name+hyperlink]." below the registration section.

[Darklor]

We could put this category under the Teasers and instead of linking every chapter from BT, just drop a note on the project page like "This is also being translated by [Group name+hyperlink]." below the registration section.

We couldnt since they even arent really wiki teaser projects, since they usuall dont have any novel text in the wiki. Only those who have that could be placed in the teaser projects.

Maybe we could call them Linked projects. I even think links to every chapter isnt a bad idea or option since often those projects arent that easy to navigate on their external project pages...

[onizuka-gto]

I even think links to every chapter isnt a bad idea or option since often those projects arent that easy to navigate on their external project pages...

I agree.

[cloudii]

I agree.

Great. We all agree. Awesome. :DDDD

------------------

On a serious note, we need to create guidelines for hosted projects, and I barely know where to start.

Misogi brought up earlier today that French hosted projects have the right to deny people from editing their translations that were posted on the Wiki.

Can we quickly delineate the rights of hosted projects? Furthermore, I really think it's necessary to take into consideration that some projects are hybrid. IE: NanoDesu might be working on volume 1, but a Baka-Tsuki translator is working on volume 7 or something.

Posting a jumble of notes I've collected earlier (it's messy so don't bother reading it):

Spoiler! :

If you are submitting translations from an external site:

==Protocol==

Situation A: You are the owner of the translation.

• Decide if you should be an affiliated project or hosted project
• Contact the Administration Page saying you gave permission to host project
• If the Project Exists on BT
⁃ Contact the Project Manager (if the Project Manager exists)
⁃ For Affiliated Projects
⁃ Link your translation
⁃ Rule: Do not cover up translations that exist on BT. You must give the priority of visibility to the Baka-Tsuki translation (if it exists).
⁃ For Hosted Projects
⁃ Upload your translation
• If the Project DNE on BT
⁃ You must follow the New Project Startup Guidelines, equally as regular BT projects
• Add your group to the list of translators on the corresponding position

Situation B: You are not the owner of the translation.

• You must contact the original translator, and ask them for written permission whether they would like to be an Affiliated or Hosted Contributor
• You must post written confirmation on the Administration Contact Page
• Follow the protocol in the above section.

==Rules==
• Affiliated Projects
⁃ Affiliated Groups must provide a link back to Baka-Tsuki on their website
⁃ When linking translations, Affiliated Groups must give the priority of visibility to the Baka-Tsuki translation (if it exists)
⁃ Translators from Affiliated Groups cannot be the Project Manager.
⁃ Why? Because Project Managers are expected to hold their primary affiliation of the project to Baka-Tsuki, and be willing to coordinate Baka-Tsuki editors and translators on the Baka-Tsuki end of the project.
• Hosted Contributors
⁃ Have all the rights of regular Baka-Tsuki contributors.
⁃ Hosted Contributors may become Project Manager for that repsective project
• Reminder from general rules
⁃ No soliciting allowed. Meaning, you may not recruit for your translation group on Baka-Tsuki premises.
• Hybrid (Translators

Affiliated Project
Hosted Project

[Misogi]

Personally, the main rule with Hosted/Affiliated Projects is that the original translator/group has the last word on any matter related to the way the translations are proposed.

It follows the rule saying that the TL has the ownership of his/her work.

Of course, I do try to convince them to follow the Hosted Project pattern (BakaReader EX, locking pages if needed). But if they onlk propose links or PDF versions, then so be it.

Do note that in my case, partnership requests are almost always sent by me, they rarely come to me.

[cloudii]

Of course. The original translator (hosted/affiliated project) would have control over the items they already translated.

My concern was with chapters they hadn't yet translated.

VIII. All Baka-Tsuki Translation Projects must be open to the public. Prospective contributors may not be denied participation rights in the Project.

I'd like to add the exception of Hosted Projects. The French project of Index relies on an external partnership, in which the translator recruitment is restricted.
Putting a veto would complicate current and further partnerships (and there is a decent number of them among French projects).

If NanoDesu was translating Volume 1 of a project, he can't bar a poor translator from translating volume 8 (or volume 2, which NanoDesu has not yet translated). That's what Statement 8 of the Contributor Agreement says.

Are you saying hosted projects have the power to deny a new translator who wants to translate a later chapter or volume in the project?

[Cthaeh]

Hosted projects are tricky... I think an important aspect of having text on the wiki that readers can propose changes or correction (on the talk pages), even if the pages are locked, and that someone on the project should either make the changes or at least reply to them saying that they won't be applied (for whatever reasonable reason). I think the ease of anyone to improve or correct mistakes is one of BT's underlying principles. So even if the page is locked, there should still be a mechanism (the talk pages) for wiki users to effect changes.

That policy would allow "hosted text" to be protected from unapproved changes without completely voiding (what I see as) a core principle of BT. I think such projects should have a note on the main page explaining this and directing any edits to the appropriate talk page (ie a user page if they don't want to keep track of individual chapter talk pages).

For cases where it's only linking out to an external site, I agree that the external site shouldn't be project manager and that focus should be given to any on-wiki version of the translation. However, I don't think an already existing link to an external site should prevent someone from creating an on-wiki version of the translation (and the on-wiki version would be given main focus even if started after the external translation).

[Misogi]

My concern was with chapters they hadn't yet translated. [...]

If NanoDesu was translating Volume 1 of a project, he can't bar a poor translator from translating volume 8 (or volume 2, which NanoDesu has not yet translated). That's what Statement 8 of the Contributor Agreement says.

Are you saying hosted projects have the power to deny a new translator who wants to translate a later chapter or volume in the project?

Hence the Hybrid Project that you mentionned. The external project cannot touch the BT one, while a TL follows the usual rules.
But such cases are rare... for me, as I can tell. I try to limit multiple projects on a same series.

Hosted projects are tricky... I think an important aspect of having text on the wiki that readers can propose changes or correction (on the talk pages), even if the pages are locked, and that someone on the project should either make the changes or at least reply to them saying that they won't be applied (for whatever reasonable reason). I think the ease of anyone to improve or correct mistakes is one of BT's underlying principles. So even if the page is locked, there should still be a mechanism (the talk pages) for wiki users to effect changes.

That policy would allow "hosted text" to be protected from unapproved changes without completely voiding (what I see as) a core principle of BT. I think such projects should have a note on the main page explaining this and directing any edits to the appropriate talk page (ie a user page if they don't want to keep track of individual chapter talk pages).

For cases where it's only linking out to an external site, I agree that the external site shouldn't be project manager and that focus should be given to any on-wiki version of the translation. However, I don't think an already existing link to an external site should prevent someone from creating an on-wiki version of the translation (and the on-wiki version would be given main focus even if started after the external translation).

- Of course, even if the pages are locked, corrections can be sent (I transfer them to the TL).
- That's the idea, but I thought of using a separate wiki page for putting them. That's a good solution.
- It's not that we should prevent that, but working on a series already TL is not productive at all. There are several series available, after all.

[cloudii]

*prods prods this thread.* :3

I'm voting yes for myself. At least for the time being.

[Simon]

"Hosted Project: Upload the raw text of your translations to the Wiki"

Bad choice of words.

[onizuka-gto]

"Hosted Project: Upload the raw text of your translations to the Wiki"

Bad choice of words.

Indeed.

"Raw translated script"

Is better

[cloudii]

"Hosted Project: Upload the raw text of your translations to the Wiki"

Bad choice of words.

Indeed.

"Raw translated script"

Is better

done.

[rydenius]

Looks good to me. Voted yes.

[Misogi]

Seems ok, so I'll vote Yes.