Editing Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume2 Chapter5 (section)

===Part 1===

His trip back to the palace up to his return took approximately two hours.
*If I understand correctly two hours is the time it took from when he left the arena until he returned to the arena.  If so, I suggest “His trip back to, and then return from the palace took approximately two hours.”
:*CaM

He could only force a smile at the irony in calling out his own name, and jumped down onto the stadium grounds.
*“could only force a smile” didn’t seem to fit for me.  I was expecting something like “could barely force down a smile” or “couldn’t help but smile”.
:*Really? This isn't exactly a 'happy' smile. Just a wry smile laughing at the situation he found himself in. "Could barely force down a smile" or "couldn't help but smile" usually implies something that causes someone to make a big, dorky smile to me. 
::*OK.  If he was trying to smile then it makes sense as is.  I didn’t really see a reason for him to try, so I didn’t consider that interpretation.

the two men who would be chosen as Clovis and Felipe would lead two hundred slaves to fight against several large dragons.
*I wanted to change it to “two men who were chosen”, but I’m not as confident on it.
:*'would be' is better, because the event hasn't yet occurred at the time. However, eliminating the preposition(I think that's what it's called?), i.e. 'the two men chosen as Clovis and Felipe' would also work.

“This child here is the best for you. It’s gotten attached to you. See? It looks so happy now that Orba’s come.” // The Baian’s eyes glistened and it let out rough snorts, as it incessantly flicked its tongue in and out. // ''' “...I’m not seeing it as usual.” ''' // Orba spoke unconcernedly. Gaining a dragon’s affection was the same as being treated as its meal.
*The bolded line seemed out of place.  I was expecting something like “I’m not seeing it (the dragon’s behavior) as '''un'''usual” or “I’m not seeing that as a good thing (relating to the following line of narrative)”.
:*A comma should be added to avoid confusion I guess. "I'm not seeing it, as usual." or "As usual, I'm not seeing it", or to be more liberal, "I'm still not seeing it" 
::*I see now.  Yes a comma and any of those possibles should clarify it.

Ran said, piqued by his strangely found interest.
*I didn’t know exactly what ‘strangely found’ meant.  I just assumed it basically meant ‘strange’.
:*'found' implies something that did not exist, i.e. 'newly found', while taking on the properties of the said adj. So it does kind of just means 'strange'

Indeed, this young girl’s appearance was strong of heart, completely unscathed by the dragon being brought out towards her. <nowiki><!--unscathed might be incorrectly used here. Alt: unaffected or word of similar meaning--></nowiki>
*In the first half, suggest removing “’s appearance” since it’s typically a person who is strong of heart. Or instead of “was strong of heart”, it could be “appeared strong of heart”).  And then you would have to add in “her appearance was completely unscathed” to change the subject for the second half.  In the second half I feel like ‘composure was completely unscathed’ could be a little more natural, but that might just be personal preference.  Or as an alternative for the original, maybe ‘(her appearance) was completely composed’.
:*I can't draw up a good transition for your last comment, so I'll go with "Indeed, this young girl was strong of heart, appearing completely unscathed by the dragon being brought out before her."

The stadium shook in anticipation of these high levelled battles. <nowiki><!--Requesting synonym for ‘high levelled’--></nowiki>
*I think ‘high level(led)’ is pretty good. Some other possibles are top-notch, high profile, noteworthy, talented, and extraordinary.
:*Thought of the word I was looking for; 'top-tiered'.

Even now, necks and limbs were sent flying and bloody entrails spewed out beneath them.
*“necks” seemed like a strange thing to be sent flying.  Maybe “heads” would be more natural.
:*Fixed.

The matches here on forth would proceed on dragonback
For one reason or another, the colour returned to Vileena’s face when,
*I’m less confident about this, but is “hence forth” more natural sounding than “here on forth”?
:*No, I don't believe it is. Actually, I think simply 'here on' would be more natural here. 

She jested lightheartedly, but on meeting the emperor’s eyes, she gave a bow, unable to stash away the anxiety that appeared across her face.
*I was a little confused by why “she gave a bow” was in the middle of the sentence, putting it there implies it’s linked to the other clauses.
::-Making the connection I assumed was there a little more explicit, one possibility is “emperor’s eyes, she bowed to hide the anxiety that appeared across her face.”  That loses the “unable to stash away,” but you could say that’s implied.
::-Another possible is “on meeting the emperor’s eyes and bowing, she was unable to…” Also ‘stash away’ isn’t incorrect necessarily, but I like the sound of ‘supress’, ‘hide’, or ‘conceal’ better.
:*Well, this is how I see the sequence of events playing out. She joked while walking towards the emperor, and turning back to where she was walking, made eye contact with the emperor. Then, she felt overwhelmed by his presence, and quickly remembering to offer a courteous greet, gave a light bow(likely a curtsy to the emperor while unable to hide her anxiety. I'll go with 'conceal' in place of 'stash away'.

Next year, I hope to be able to invite many airship pilots from Garbera and engage with them in a racing contest.
*“engage with them” seemed a little strange, but I’m not sure it should be changed.  My first instinct was to swap to say “engage them with”, which puts focus solely on Garberan airship pilots.  However, on coming back to them, I see it may have been intended to imply the following “(our country’s pilots) engage with them”.
:*Yea, it's the implied meaning; Alternatively, omitting with and changing it to "engage them" might actually make it clearer? However, it does offer a slight change in nuance, so I'd better not. 
::*It probably would make it easier to arrive at an interpretation, but as it wouldn’t be the right one, I agree.

yet he surely planned to feed any of his retainers who dared voice an objection against him today.
*I think something is missing somewhere after ‘feed’, maybe ‘to dragons’.
:*Oops. Changed to "...today to the dragons"

“Who do you believe would be more likely to win, Princess?”
*More natural phrasing might be “Who do you believe is more likely”, but the current might be intentional as a style of speech thing. I’m bad at keeping track and noticing those, so I wasn’t sure.
:*Style of speech for both.

If the princess desires for Orba’s victory
*Same question as the previous entry with deleting ‘for’ (both are the emperor’s speech).

(Talking about the bet of who will win the match) “… This will only serve as a pastime. …”
*Possible replacements for ‘pastime’, which doesn’t feel right to me: ‘small amusement’, ‘little fun’, “small game”, ‘friendly game’, ‘friendly wager’
:*Changed to 'friendly wager'

“I would like to be given the honour of naming your grandchild.”
*Shouldn’t it be ‘my grandchild’ or ‘your child’?
:*......I feel dumb now. Changed to 'my grandchild'

''I would like to see that endearing visage of you cradling the baby in your arms upfront.''
*I’m not sure what ‘upfront’ means here.  Perhaps the same as ‘in person’?  But even then, it might be unnecessary.
:*Good point. Lots of repetitive details in Japanese writing when translating...Removed.

''Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. And also. having caught possibly even more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell. ''

* And also isn't a sentence. I assume this is a type but more than that the syntax seems off to me. I suggest an alternative syntax " Everyone rumoured that Orba had caught his eye. ''Although, possibly catching more attention than the emperor was the presence of Vileena Owell.'' I believe the line is trying to express that Vileena presence is more eye catching so although" as a translation phrase would express this better than "and also". Another note, it's usually frowned upon in to start a sentence with "And". There are special circumstances that allow the usage of And but it's hardly ever use in such a way. "And" is conjunction word that in the general sense connects ideas, meaning it's usually some in the middle of a sentence.. Also, the adverb "possibly" is incorrectly place in the sentence. This is a syntax error that reversed the order. Good job translator.

:*Cthaeh: There are multiple points here, so I’m going to break up my comments by topic
:::-The “And also” is followed by a comma in the chapter, not a period as shown above, so that by itself isn’t an issue
:::-I would say “And also” and “Although” could have slightly different connotations, but in this case I think they’re effectively identical given the non-exclusive relationship between the two ideas.  “Although” does feel a little smoother to me, so I’m not opposed to changing it.
:::-I disagree that starting sentences with “And” (or “But”) requires special circumstances. I actually gave nearly the exact same opinion you did in a v1c1 discussion; however I changed my mind after reading a few discussion on the internet how it was a common misconception.  I think teachers often start out teaching that, because it’s easy to overuse those to start sentences, and then that carries over into a lasting misconception. I think this falls under the general issue of overusing any sentence structure will detract from the overall quality. And the fact that many people do view it negatively is another reason to not overuse it. But I don’t think it needs to be excluded as a viable sentence structure.
:::-I thought ‘possibly’ was fine where it is.  I’m not an expert at dissecting sentences and describing them with actual grammar rules, but it seems fine to me. It’s also a commonly used (based on google hits of “possibly even more”), though that’s not an absolute guarantee.

:*No, I will not switch 'And' with 'Although'. I will slightly rework the sentence in my edits, but switching their uses affects the flow of the passage, and not just the single sentence. Also, as Ctaeth mentioned, it is perfectly fine to start a sentence with 'And'. It's a misconception that teachers never correct after themselves. This rule is only meant to apply to a classroom setting and professional articles of writing, that may include newspaper articles, scientific papers, critiques, etc. However, it is the opposite in creative writing, and starting sentences with 'And' can be considered a style in itself. Possibly is fine where it is. --[[User:Detalz|Detalz]] ([[User talk:Detalz|talk]]) 20:14, 1 February 2014 (CST)