Editing Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Chapter 4

Erm, yeah I removed the clear nonsense added by 201. whatever. Now you have taken it back to Bakafish's first update - he had done a second with a few more line in. When I put in "vandalism" I mean fixing it, not carrying it out - please compare versions. - [[User:81.101.40.82|81.101.40.82]] 16:46, 14 January 2007 (PST)


== About large anonymous edits ==

I'm adding this to the top so it'll be seen easier, I hope.

I certainly don't want to discourage anonymous editing, but please remember that large edits - things that change the meaning of the story - really should be discussed first. At the very least, you should document here why you think the edit is necessary... not doing at least that is almost a form of "unintentional vandalism." (It also helps if the edit doesn't add '''more''' grammar and spelling mistakes that it removes, but that's another story.)

Lastly, "picked myself up" has a certain connotation to it which fits well in the opening paragraphs. If you say "I sat up" it means just that, but saying "I picked myself up" implies some reluctance and effort in the process, either from physical fatigue or lack of will. It adds a bit of color to the narration. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 04:06, 14 March 2007 (PDT)


== "Against the sun." ==

:As she said this, Haruhi looked like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid that ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

:Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. After entering the month of February, I had been fooled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

How should we interpret this? Is this Haruhi with an expression so dark that it defeats the sun, so arrogant as to trample the gods or (most likely in my view) so bright it outshines the sun? Kyon's response is hard to fit on the dark or arrogant interpretation. On the bright interpretation I'd suggest:

:As she said this, Haruhi glowed like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid away my own ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

:Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. Since entering the month of February, I had been lulled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 10:02, 13 February 2007 (PST)

:I think this is an extension of an earlier passage where Kyon describes a "battle" between the sun and the wind:
::''One side of my head was taking a bath in something that seemed like the North Wind in all its glory doing battle with the sun, so I hid my face in my scarf and walked forwards.''
:[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 11:06, 13 February 2007 (PST)

::Interesting take, that hadn't occurred to me. So if we take Haruhi as cold and blustery...well, that actually fits with the sharp banter at least as well, I could go with that. The more I consider, the more I like it. So the first line could become:

:::As she said this, Haruhi looked like the North Wind had won out against the sun.

::Or am I reaching for too much explicitness?

:: As an aside, this may parallel an earlier point of discussion about, "then who's the tomcat," where I ultimately concluded that the meaning was tied to something earlier in the scene. I need to open up my contextual frame for deciphering these things.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 15:14, 13 February 2007 (PST)

== Inchworm tense frame ==

Or, "I'll be in the moment in a moment."

I find a strict present tense construction for Kyon's narration to be very unnatural and awkward-sounding to my mind's ear. Mulling this over, I concluded that my own internal mental discourse tends to move like an inchworm, alternating between present tense framing and immediate past framing. Consider this version of the opening scene:

:The second morning, I was awakened by my little sister who came to shut off my alarm. (RP=recent past)

:It's noisy, isnt it Shami? (P=present)

:My sister picked up a curled-up Shamisen, hugging him close, and then put that pile of fur on my nose, asking, 

:"It's breakfast~~. Are you gonna eat~?" (RP to P)

:This voice, which belongs to a tone-deaf person who constantly practices singing in order to get good at it, irritates my brain more than the alarm did. (P)

:"I'm eating." 

:I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. (RP)

I'm going to proceed on this basis for the moment.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 09:35, 14 February 2007 (PST)

:Don't forget that the entire story is in past narrative, so it's common for tense to jump about especially when dialog is concerned. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 10:03, 14 February 2007 (PST)

::True. The time framing has been set up by the author in the interest of playfulness rather than ease of understanding and ease of translation - but it's not perversely complicated. The editing guidelines suggest defaulting to both present and past tenses, and they're both "right." Maybe this will be a way to express the underlying "truth" that's a little easier to use.--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 13:21, 14 February 2007 (PST)



== The pressure is different ==


:Well, is it bad if it keeps going like this? If we compare this with the time I got put into the Avatars’ closed space, or when it was clearly Autumn but the cherry blossoms had appeared and were filling in the classroom, this place is only as difficult as having to choose to return home by either the light of the moon or the Andromeda galaxy. The pressure is different, [T/L note: You know what, I give up on this line. No matter how I word it, it’ll be crap.]

Care to take a crack at this one, Smidge? Where Kyon is going here is pretty obvious, so suppose I could just make up something... ;-)

There are various other untranslated bits and other translator comments. I think I'll start porting them all over here and port whatever consensus emerges back after a day or two, assuming somebody ventures an opinion. Without objection, that's how I'll proceed.


--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 09:01, 15 February 2007 (PST)

:The paragraph is as follows:

::まあ、いいのか。〈神人〉のいるバカ空間に引きずり込まれたり、秋なのに桜を満開にさせたりすることに比べたら、ここから月かアンドロメダ星雲のどちらかを選んで行って帰ってくるくらいの違《ちが》いがある。なら圧倒《あっとう》的に月のほうがマシだ。すでに人間の足が触《ふ》れている天体と銀河鉄道に乗らんといかんくらいの前人未踏《ぜんじんみ　とう》の彼方《か なた》では大違いさ。もっとも、俺は閉鎖《へいさ》空間も秋の異常現象も経験済みなわけだが。 

:(Note: Characters in 《》are the furigana for the kanji that proceeds them.)

:It seems to me that Kyon is comparing the current atmosphere with his past experiences. To him the situation feels weird, but doesn't have the same feel as all the other weird things that have happened before. Does that make sense?

:It's actually the last two sentences that are missing.

:[[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 15:05, 15 February 2007 (PST)


Well then, how about this? It would be miraculous if the particular metaphor is in the original text, but I'm pretty confident that this in the right general direction:

:Well, is it bad if it keeps going like this? If we compare this with the time I got put into the Avatars’ closed space, or when it was clearly Autumn but the cherry blossoms had appeared and were filling in the classroom, this place is only as difficult as having to choose to return home by either the light of the moon or the Andromeda galaxy. The pressure is different. '''I may miss my footing in the dark, but I'm not on the edge of an abyss.''' At least the Sealed Realities and the endless Autumn ended reasonably for everyone.

--[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 21:12, 15 February 2007 (PST)

== “Obentou (???), I prepared them.” ==

Wasn't sure where to put this.
Doesn't it just mean lunches or something along those lines? Like bento is their packed lunch thing, right?

:The word is the polite form of "bento" (Japanese style boxed lunch.) [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 05:32, 20 February 2007 (PST)

::I find "bento", "obentou" and "boxed lunch" with "boxed lunch" the most common. However, I think "bento" would be slightly better choice as the default. Fewer letters. --[[User:Nutcase|Nutcase]] 10:35, 23 February 2007 (PST)

:::Not the word used in the text, though, for what it's worth. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 11:13, 23 February 2007 (PST)