Talk:Zero no Tsukaima:Volume1 Story1 Chapter1

Chapter One

Page number

I'll keep the page numbers for now, until we get the first half of the chapter.

Onizuka-gto 08:31, 19 August 2006 (PDT)

Actually just keep the page number, the other groups will need it for the scans.

Onizuka-gto 17:12, 19 August 2006 (PDT)

Page 12

The girl looked into Saito's face steadily, with the blue sky which seemed like it would fall out behind her.(1) She seemed to be around Saito's age and she wore(2) a white blouse with a gray pleated skirt under a black cape. She crouched down, looking at his face as if she was disgusted.

Her face is... Cute. Her reddish-brown eyes danced, with her strawberry blond hair and her flawless white skin for their stage.(3) She seems like a foreigner. Well... She is(4). But she is such a cute foreigner girl(5), like a doll. Or is she a half?(6)

Anyway her uniform, I wonder which school it belongs to? I have never seen it before.

Saito seems to be lying with his back on the ground, he lifted his head up to look around.(7)

There were a lot of people with black capes looking at him as a stranger.(8) There, on an endlessly rich grassy plain, he finds a huge castle with stone walls in the distance just like he has seen in those European trip photographs.(9) This was just like a fantasy.

Okay. Everything I highlighted and numbered in bold are points I'd like to bring into attention.

(1) This sentence seems rather odd. How does the sky fall out behind a person? Is the girl looking at Saito's face, staring at Saito's face or looking/staring into Saito's eyes?

(2) Wore –> was wearing. If I’m not mistaken, the word “wore” is strictly reserved for anything described in past tense. The story so far seems to be told in present tense.

(3) I'm not too sure about the phrase "...red eyes danced..." but I think it may be lacking in description. It might sound better if written as "Her red eyes danced about". The rest of the sentence: "...with her strawberry blond hair and her flawless white skin for their stage" does not make any particular sense. What is "for their stage" supposed to represent? Her age?

(4) Is "Well... She is" the actual statement? I assume that "Saito" comes to this conclusion since she does not appear to be of the Japanese ethnic (presuming Saito is Japanese).

(5) foreigner girl -> foreign girl

(6) This sentence on its own is ambiguous since the noun that should follow the word "half" is absent. While this would seem clear enough to people well versed in Japanese "pop-culture" (and for people who think about the options of what the girl could be half of), I think that this should be clarified slightly. e.g. "Or is she half-Japanese?

(7) I moved the sentence down since I noticed a change of writing style (from the first person, to the third person). This however, may be the unusual manner of writing that the author chose to use.

(8) Under normal circumstances, the vast majority of people are strangers relative to oneself. In this case, assuming that it is common for people to wear black capes at that particular school (or that Saito looks like an alien compared to the others), a more appropriate sentence would be: "There were a lot of people with black capes looking at him as a though he were a stranger".

(9) Unless Saito was specifically looking around, I don't think the word "finds" is appropriate. I would suggest words such as "sees", "saw", "spots", "spotted", "notices", "noticed" .etc

Again, due to the somewhat ambiguous transition between the past and present tense (and that I haven't looked at the Japanese script yet), I can't decide on an accurate substitute.

Da~Mike 17:07, 21 August 2006 (GMT)

• I Interpreted them as past tense, but then again the first half is talking from a first person perspective.

I guess it's best to check.

got to get cala-kun help, or naming_game

Onizuka-gto 10:56, 20 August 2006 (PDT)

Page 26

Maijis those flew away from here and those fantasy word connect.

Maijis?

Mages perhaps?

Page 14

"Mr. Colbert!" The girl who has been called Louise shouted(1). The wall of people divided, and there appeared a middle aged man.(2)

Saito thought it was funny. Because this man looked ridiculous.(3) He had a big wooden cane(4) and was wearing a black robe that covered him.(5) What kind of look is that? He seemed like a wizard, is he sane?

I got it, this place must be a place for cosplay. But this atmosphere doesn't seem right for it.(6)

All of a sudden Saito was gripped with fear. What am I going to do if this was an religious

group? It is possible. They must have put me to sleep some how and brought me here while I was taking a walk in

town. That mirror must have been a trap. If not I have no explanation for this.

Stay quiet, until he knows what was going on(6), Saito thought to himself.

That girl Louise keeps on talking, saying "Let me try it again", or "please", and shaking

her arms wildly.(7)

I felt sorry for her to be in this weird religious group, especially since she is so cute.

"What is it, Miss. Valiale?"

"Please! let me try the summoning one more time!"

I'll use this symbol -> to indicate that I have or want to substitute something.

(1) -> "The girl called Louise shouted" (removed "has been")

(2) -> "and there, appeared a middle-aged man." (added a comma and a hypen)

(3) -> "Saito thought it was funny because this man looked ridiculous." (joined the two sentences)

(4) -> "sported a big wooden cane" (used the word "sported" to emphasise that the man looks ridiculous)

(5) Does the black robe cover him entirely or? Robes are either worn or donned. I don't think they "cover" people. Other ways to suggest how the man is wearing the robe would be: "the black robe was draped over him" or "the black robe hung from his shoulders".

(6) -> "But this doesn't seem to be the right atmosphere for it." (Mild grammatical change)

(7) -> "until he knows what is going on" (I don't believe people think to themselves in past tense...)

(8) -> "That girl Louise kept on saying "Let me try it again", or "please", whilst shaking her arms wildly." (IMHO, Louise was being described in the past tense, not the present tense.)

Da~Mike 19:01, 21 August 2006 (GMT)

Zero no Tsukaima Unified Guidelines

Hello, in this thread we will discuss terminalogy, the correct speeling and words ofthe translation.

It is best that we get this out of the way, as at Baka-Tsuki has experienced, failure to not lay down these issues first will result in delay, and unnecessary disagreements.

For example, an entry could look like:

ガンダールブ - Gandalfr

or

竜の羽衣 - Dragon's Raiment

or

カトレヤ ラ・ヴァリエール - Kattleya La Valliere

something like that.

This does not apply to Translators, they shoud not be pressured to change their translation habits, it is up to the editors to crrect the script.

--onizuka-gto

Quote:

I have a headache. Saito said as he shook his head.

Is he talking to himself outloud or in his head? Since no speech marks i assume it's in his head.

Quote:

"which commoner are you from?"

is she asking him which commoner location he is from, or what type of commoner is he? i think she is referring to which region of the this world he is from.

Quote:

Louise of Zero

How are we going to standardlized this phrase?

Zero Louise Louise the Zero

I favour "Zero Louise"

Quote:

I don't see any building to symblize it.

it seems to me like Saito is trying to say, that he does not recognise any building typical to a school campus

Quote:

Was there any location like this in Japan?

I interpret this as saito saying was there any location like this in Japan, with a western castle on a wide open field....

Quote:

Let me try it again, or please and shaking her arm wildly.

I have no idea what this is suppose to mean.

Is saito trying to plead with louise for help? or is he just observing her actions?

Well i;ve done a first pass of part one of k.neko's script.

I'll start on the other tomorrow morning. hopefully we will get the rest of the sript then i can do a second on the complete chapter.

--onizuka-gto

Zero no Louise I will use my favorite example for the Japanese "no" ... in many ways it's like the Chinese "de" .. but I digress.

"Hoshi" = "celestial body" -- both planets and stars.

I believe these are the official English titles for these songs. One is a Gackt song, the other is an anime soundtrack, I believe by Utada Hikari. I heard both on kawaii-radio.net, so the info is as reliable as they are.

"Hoshi no Suna" -> "Star's Sand" -> "Star Sand" "Suna no Hoshi" -> "Sand's Planet" -> "Sandy Planet"

"Zero no Louise" -> "Zero's Louise" -> "Zero-y Louise" .... ?

I imagine "Goose Egg Louise" to be something you might hear in some British schoolyard somewhere. The Britons here can weigh in on this. "Louise the Zero" seems like another likely name. "Zero Louise" sounds less likely. But honestly, I don't really care. They all sound fine, and we'll get used to any of them in time.

I don't see any building to symblize it.

Sore rashii tatemono wa dokonimo mienai

     sore : that
     rashii (aux-adj) seems
     tatemono (n) building
     dokonimo : nowhere -- see here for the example sentence "Went nowhere this weekend."
     mieru (ru-verb) to be seen; to be in sight; to look; to seem; to appear -> mienai : negative present

That like building nowhere not-looks-like. (Note that Japanese appears to use a double negative for this.) That kind of building nowhere appears. You won't see that kind of building anywhere.

(Well, that's my guess, anyway. Man, I thought we were supposed to be EDITORS.)

"which commoner are you from?" From the example sentences I've seen, it's better translated as "What kind of commoner are you?" or "What kind of commoner is this?" -- the subject really isn't specified, so you have to use context. If it's Louise talking, it'd be "you." If it's from the peanut gallery, it'd probably be "this."

I'm more inclined to go with "you" since that's what the translator chose. There are just some things you really can't reason out, and this seems to be one of them. I'm assuming the translator, being "Yuko", is a native Japanese speaker? We can probably trust large scale decisions, then, but have to be suspicious of the trip to English.

I have a headache. Saito said as he shook his head. Zutsuu ga suru. Saito wa kaburi wo furi nagara itta.

kaburi wo furi : shake one's head (opposite of nod) furu : shake (ru-verb) -> furi ... the verb stem for -masu, and lots of other things. Like "go" iku -> iki-masu (polite form) nagara : while -- see here iu : say (u-verb) -> itta : past

Headache doing. Saito shook head while said.

(Oh great, I did all that work, and still can't tell if the "said" refers to the headache part or the part that comes next. Going by Japanese convention, it's probably the headache statement.)

That girl Louise is keep on talking. Let me try it again, or please and shaking her arm wildly. I've ended up looking at more Japanese tonight than English. While I do want to learn, it's a lot crazier on a deadline. I'm not going to do the same pretty here, but it's basically this:

That girl Louise keeps on talking. "Let me try it again", or "please" ("onegai desu"), and shaking her arms wildly.

---

Ok, time to study some more. I found a lot of things that are in those last few sections. After I finish those, I have to fear for the things that aren't in those sections. (there's jgram.org, though) Would love to draft a Japanese language consultant. But then again, if we had one, they'd be translating, wouldn't they?

Ugh. Took me way too long to write this up. Will have to optimize methods. Didn't get to do much editing -- and just on a local copy. It's a pretty major rewording of the first and start of the second pages, as a warning.

P.S.

@Kawool If you happen to be listening in on this thread, I fully admit to complaining. Yet there are still a lot of fun parts. Complaining just happens to be one of them. But not the only one!

@onizuka Are you able to come on irc? Discussion would be faster that way. If tonight is getting too late for you, sometime tomorrow?

@everyone Same goes for the others. It'd be nice if we could all meet up twice before the deadline. I'd prefer IRC, because I don't have to install anything, but I'll do MSN if I absolutely have to. My IRC client can't do Japanese, unfortunately.

--the_naming_game

I rather do msn mainly because I can't make heads or tails of IRC and i get sensory overloads from all those different speed scrolling text, and partly because i don't have to install anything.

Wink:

tomorrows fine.

msn details below. Please pester me after noon GMT

Wink:

p.s: ive removed security tag.

only those with permission can access special pages such as special:recentpage.

--onizuka-gto

absolutely not objective as i prefer Louise the Zero due to the fact we use that...

--Kawool

okay .im awake now. im on msn as of now.

so any immediate discussion of the edit, please do so now.

Quote:

=summon servant=

I substitute this as "The spell of Summoning"

Quote:

=servant contract=

I substitute this as the servant contract spell

I also remove speech marks for saitos dialogue, the reason being that it was not consistance, and we all know that in the first part, saito could not communicate to the other anyway, they don't understand Japanese.

Quote:

"Mr. Colbert! A =flood='s mommolancey has insulted me!"

=flood='s mommolancey?

I have no idea what is this suppose to mean.

edit: oh okay it explains in the next page.

i would change it to "Mommolancey the Flood"

or even floods of mommolancey

--onizuka-gto

Quote: I also remove speech marks for saitos dialogue, the reason being that it was not consistance, and we all know that in the first part, saito could not communicate to the other anyway, they don't understand Japanese.

I think that's a change that was made for the anime, and that in the novels he can understand things from the beginning. He can be understood too, not that anyone cares much what he says.

Anyway, I think the key passages that will explain that for sure are yet to be translated, so we'll see.

--BlckKnght

need someone to c heck page 21 - 22

seems like in the novel saito can be understood by louise, but not by others.

so removing some of saito's speech marks might be in error, when he is addressing louise.

--onizuka-gto

momolency ??? are you sure its not Montmorency?

--Kawool

oh right. well that was what was in the translation.

--onizuka-gto