Talk:Rakuin no Monshou:Volume2 Chapter1

There was this...I guess you could call it a mockery of a comeback that I couldn't quite find the right words to translate. Zaat says this while drunk, 「最近の陛下は、何を言うにも突然すぎていけない」and after arresting Kaiser, the king says this back at him「何をするにも突然」. But since the translation modifies the word (i.e. suddenly -> sudden), I'm not quite sure how to emphasize his sarcastic response. I currently have it as "Suddenly passes over whatever he says when he shouldn't." and "I'm being sudden in what I'm doing." I guess I could emphasize it by italicizing sudden in the second one, but even then, I'm not sure the sarcasm would get through. Any suggestions? --Detalz (talk) 13:53, 27 July 2013 (CDT)

• The emperor here is being 'sudden' with his announcement laws. I suggest using 'without notice/warning' or 'unexpected' instead. And you don't have to worry about 突然 as it can be both used as an adjective and an adverb. In this case, the sentences would be something like:

"Recently, the emperor passes over anything he says without warning."; Retort: "I'm acting without notice"

or

"Recently, the emperor passes over anything he says unexpectedly." Retort: "I'm acting/doing things unexpectedly."

Nice work so far, btw. I'll probably be checking your and Xin's chapter's when they're further ahead. --Dohma (talk) 09:30, 29 July 2013 (CDT)

• Thanks Dohma, I hadn't thought of rewording it in that way. I went with the first suggestion. --Detalz (talk) 20:54, 29 July 2013 (CDT)

These are some phrases I had a little difficulty with in Part 2, for one reason or another. --Detalz (talk) 01:08, 9 August 2013 (CDT)

ギルはむすっとしたままにこりともしない "Gil kept a frowning expression"

• I'm actually not too sure of this one. I tried looking up the definition of the idiom, and got "unsmiling". Didn't help much, so I broke it up, and found it means something similar to "uncaring", so the literal translation was "Gil didn't care if he kept frowning." Is the above translation too liberal?

• むすっと means 'stern' or 'serious', as in a serious look. He doesn't necessarily frown, but doesn't laugh along with the joke. The sentence is a little strange though. It looks to me as if it says "Gil didn't smile (and) had a stern expression." --Dohma (talk) 10:47, 11 August 2013 (CDT)

• Hmm, I'll change it to "kept a stern expression" for now. A little later in the text, it does mention how he "dons a scowl filled with displeasure, Orba carefully paid attention to their conversation." I figure this is the expression he wanted to keep up the entire time, so maybe "kept an expression of displeasure" might be more appropriate? --Detalz (talk) 13:04, 12 August 2013 (CDT)

やがて、ソロン中心部にそびえ立つ『黒の剣』を左手に見下ろす、雷が丘の中腹辺り、ローグ・サイアンの邸宅に辿り着いた。

• I have no clue why they raw text says 『黒の剣』. Is it a typo? Or some kind of parody I'm not getting. I'm going to assume it meant『黒の塔』and go with that for now. The sentence just doesn't make sense if it's not.

• Black sword is correct. The tower is known as the 'Black Sword' or more extensively the ‘Forged Sword that cut through the Space Immigrant Ship’s bow’ (Vol.1 Ch.2 Part 3). --Dohma (talk) 10:47, 11 August 2013 (CDT)

• Ohh I completely forgot about that. Thanks. I went back to check, and it definitely did have a nickname. [宇宙移民船の舳先をへし折ってつくられた剣]. But regarding this name, doesn't it mean "The Sword forged from the remains of a Space Immigrant Ship's bow"? --Detalz (talk) 19:22, 11 August 2013 (CDT)

• Actually, you're right. I'm going to change that now. -_-;; --Dohma (talk) 12:16, 12 August 2013 (CDT)

About dragon ship - I usually translate this as dragonstone ship instead, because the term 'dragonstone' 竜石 is a made-up word by the author. --Dohma (talk) 12:32, 12 August 2013 (CDT)

• I did it because "Winged Dragon Officers" manage them. Hence, i did it for the correlation to the title rather than for direct translation. I think the Japanese focuses more on giving an 'understanding' of objects through naming, while in English, it's always done for the appeal. It can always be changed. --Detalz (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2013 (CDT)

いいおべべ着てんな "Those are some nice clothes you're wearing" --Detalz (talk) 14:39, 20 August 2013 (CDT)

• Forgot about this one. べべ is a derogatory remark used on people wearing fanciful clothing. Would 'rags' or 'garbs' or some other term be more appropriate?

• Rags or drags works as well. But garb seems a bit tame for an insult. --Hiro Hayase (talk) 16:38, 20 August 2013 (CDT)

• It's not necessarily insulting as in 'rags' in this case. It's more condescending/sarcastic because he knows she's a noble, so actually a tamer word will suffice. I think just the word 'clothes' (or maybe 'duds', 'threads'?) fits best in this sentence, but as he also speaks a bit plebeian/ruffian-like so maybe "That's some nice clothes you're wearing"? or "That's some nice clothes yer wearin'" although the latter might be a bit too much. --Dohma (talk) 03:39, 21 August 2013 (CDT)
• "That's some nice garbs yer wearin'" that could work. Since garbs mean a distinct type of clothing, so clothing fit for a noble in this case. If we can't find a good word for it, then we could make the dialogue by the thieves more rough sounding and add a comma and another word that denotes the derogatory sense to here. For instance: "That's some nice clothes yer wearin, missy." --Hiro Hayase (talk) 08:14, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

• Went with "Those are some nice garbs yer wearin'." and accomodated the following sentence. Felt 'garbs' better portrayed べべ than 'clothes' does. Thanks you two. --Detalz (talk) 10:22, 21 August 2013 (CDT)

Winged Dragon final verdict?

About 翼竜, I went with 'winged dragon' at first, but coming across page 253 of Vol. 1 (Chapter 6), third line, I noticed the author stylized it as ワイバーン 'wyvern', so let's go with that. And about 'winged dragon officer', maybe 'wyvern commander' sounds better than 'wyvern officer'? I'm not entirely sure how all of these ranks work... but you were right about it referring to type of ship; as can be seen on this page as well, they're modeled after wyverns. --Dohma (talk) 09:12, 23 August 2013 (CDT)

• I think it's still a bit too early to decide on a final verdict. For now, it is clear that a Winged Dragon 'Officer' certainly ranks above that of an officer, and should at least be regarded as a 'Fleet Commander' or 'Commander' in title. If the author had wanted Winged Dragon Commanders to be regarded as Wyvern Commanders, I'm sure he would've taken the time to add the furigana to the title when it was first mentioned. Most likely, and this is just conjecture, amongst the common wyvern-type dragonstone ships, there are several more 'specialized' ones, that might focus on firepower/mobility, or other features, whose management is also under that of a WDC. 'Aerial Dragon Commander' might be a title closer to describing their role. For now, I think we should go with either "Winged Dragon Commander" or "Aerial Dragon Commander." --Detalz (talk) 10:54, 24 August 2013 (CDT)

Suggested sentences for revision

I'm using a similar style and threshold of editing and revision suggestions as I did when reading Dohma's chapters. Let me know if you'd prefer I do things differently for future editing on your chapters. I also plan to read and edit the remaining two parts of this chapter when I get the chance. Thanks for your translations. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:06, 29 September 2013 (CDT)

• I don't mind. I've gotten quite used to this format. Thanks for taking the time to make the edits. Really appreciate it, since I find it extremely hard to proofread my own works. Wasn't aware this chapter had that many grammatical errors. I've learned my lesson. Never typing it out on notepad again. I hope you'll bear with me and the sometimes silly translational errors I make for the first few chapters as I get the hang of translating this novel. The accuracy will definitely improve, and Dohma will also be offering a TLC after he is finished with Volume 1, to catch the other translational errors I may have made. Thanks again. --Detalz (talk) 01:10, 30 September 2013 (CDT)

Finished my editing (parts 2 and 3) and added suggested revisions below. --Cthaeh (talk) 20:41, 9 October 2013 (CDT)

• Thanks again. I'm a bit short on time at the moment, so I'll just go over the english revisions to the best I can remember. Don't have enough time to check with the raws and correct some of them, so I'll leave notes for myself to use to fix them at a later date. --Detalz (talk) 20:14, 11 October 2013 (CDT)

Part 1

The amount of gold and people required made it far from being precedent.

• I think precedent should be replaced with something like prudent.

• Precedent here refers to order of precedence. The literal meaning of this sentence is "Priority was placed on the 'use' of workers and gold." I quite like the way the sentence if worded, but if you think it might be incorrect, feel free to change the phrasing in accordance with the literal sentence I provided.

But, five days later, Kaiser had heard through one of his evening parties that the king's political measures had been formally reproached.

• The meaning of this line didn't make sense to me contextually. It sounds like Kaiser found out at his party that the king's measures were reproached. But wasn't Kaiser the one who was reproaching the king's measures? Or was there additional formal criticism/protest?

• Ahaha...silly me. Mistook 開いた for　聞いた. Changed it to, "But, five days later, Kaiser, through an open evening party held at his residence, newly reproached the king's political measures.

Emperor Guhl Mephius would once more put his plan of strengthening his own authority into action, and after earning the hostility of his surroundings, was when Fedom would put his own plan into practice, and the testimony of that day drew closer.

• I think some of the subject-verb pairings don't quite match up as intended. My suggested change to fix that would be the following. Also, I'm not entirely sure of the intended meaning of "and the testimony of that day drew closer".

- Emperor Guhl Mephius would once more put his plan of strengthening his own authority into action, and in the process earn the hostility of his surroundings. That was when Fedom would put his own plan into practice, and the testimony of that day drew closer.

• Changed as mentioned.

It was a large ambition.

• Suggested change to "It was an ambitious plan."

• The raws specifically refer to the breadth and not contents of his ambition. Therefore, I'd like to keep it this format. If you feel huge/great might make better adjectives in place of large, feel free to change it.

He also held the title as a member of the Founding Imperial Council ...

• The phrasing of "the title as a member" seems a little off to me. Suggested change to "a position as a member". Though there might some other alternatives if you changed the structure or word choice of the rest of the sentence as well.

• Yea, it sounded a bit off to me too when I wrote it. It might be better to condense it, since any efforts to stretch out meaning of the title would lead to repetitive word usage in this sentence. Changed as mentioned.

For this reason, we are to spread idle chatter of this his intentions with this 'joke', which will instead become truth.

• The main change would be deleting the "this" in "this his". It's a small change, but I wasn't perfectly confident on the intent of the rest of the sentence to do it myself.

• Yea, "this" should be removed. Failed parsing while rephrasing this sentence on my part.

"That aside, what about you? If you occasionally keep checking on the current situation, you won't make a speck of progress. You don't have all the time in the world. Dinn, how do you explain this sorry state?"

• I feel like "occasionally" and "keep" are contradictory descriptions. From context I think you could delete occasionally and just have keep. Also, I was a little confused by the context of who is saying this line. I thought this was Fedom's line, but then I was confused by what it means that Orba ("you") was wasting time by "checking on the current situation".

• I realized I translated this sentence wrong, hence the awkward sentence. Changed to "That aside, what's with you? I drop by this once to find you haven't made a speck of progress. You don't have all the time in the world. Dinn, how do you explain this sorry state?"

Dinn said as he placed down a full remaining cup of tea.

• Not sure what "remaining" means there. Suggest deleting that word.

• Hmm, I initially thought 茶を下げる was the simple action of lowering a (pot/cup) of tea, but it seems to refer to removal of the tea leaves from brewed tea..well I'll be damned. Changed it to "Dinn said as he removed the tea leaves from the untouched tea."

For this one month, Fedom had confined Orba within the prince's room. Under the pretext that the mental strain from his first campaign and reality of the circumstances over the several days had caused his physical condition to crumble, he was not allowed to participate in official business and was prohibited from having personal meetings with the large number of people who sought to get closer to him. During this time, he devoted himself to Orba's education in making him more prince-like, no matter how little, as part of his plan.

• I think the middle sentence is a bit too long and convoluted. I'm not sure that I grasp the intended structure and meaning, so I can't propose an alternative. One aspect that confused me was it says "circumstances over the several days", but the first sentence says it has been "one month". So that seemed like a discrepancy to me. It's a lesser issue, but you could also replace some of the pronouns (he/his) with the names, since it's a little confusing that the subjects in each sentence flip back and forth (Fedom -> he (Orba) -> he (Fedom)).

"On that matter, I have complete faith in you. If that is of your opinion."

• Suggested change of last part to "If that is your opinion."

• May I hear your reasoning for this change? I added 'of' for emphatic purposes and feel it adds connotations of wit and doubt that are not present in its absence.

• I feel like "of" should only be to relate two things. In this case I would say "that" (Theresia's advice) is her opinion, not merely related to it. It's a small issue, so if you think it's fine, then I don't think it needs any more discussion.

Theresia immediately began selecting clothes that would falter the soon-to-be husband.

• Suggested change of "falter" to "sway" (or entrance).

• I had originally reworded it from faltering...but I shouldn't have. Faltering is used to describe the husband, who has yet to give in to her advances. There might be a better word than faltering, but I can't think of it right now, so for now changed to "Theresia immediately began selecting clothes for the faltering soon-to-be husband."

• Someone edited the "husband" to "wife". From our discussion here I'm pretty sure "husband" was the intended word, but I do undertand why someone would be confused. I didn't see it earlier, but the current sentence structure with husband makes it should like it's Gil's clothes she is selecting. The fix that comes to my mind is still to insert a word along the lines sway, entrance, influence, or affect. So that the result would be "clothes to sway the (faltering) soon-to-be-husband." I'll let the error from the other editor sit assuming you'll take care of it in the next couple of weeks, but I'll undo it myself eventually if not.
• I finally thought of a word! Impotent! "...selecting clothes for the impotent soon-to-be husband." Then again, this still doesn't resolve the problem of "selecting clothes 'for'" in the context. It was more or less a translation adhering to the Japanese style of grammar, which is confusing when read in English. Fixed to "...selecting clothes that would charm the impotent soon-to-be husband."

Part 2

Fastened to horses on the top of a hill, the youths waiting...

• "Fastened to horses" sound awkward to me. I would suggest "Riding on horses" or "Saddled on horses".

• Changed to "Straddled to their horses." Somehow couldn't think of this word while I was translating it at the time. Thanks.

• I think you intended to type "Saddled to their horses"? If you did intend "straddled" then it might be be better as "straddled on" rather than "to", though I do think using "saddled" would be better.
• Meh. Damn me and my 5th grade level english. I concede. Saddle is better in this situation.

Although not even half an hour had passed since the departure from the palace, going through the trouble to suggest riding on horseback was rather typical of Ineli.

• I was confused by this line. I'm not sure what how long it's been since they left has to do with Ineli suggesting horseback riding. Weren't they already on horse back? If so why does the "Although not even ..." segment mention the time it has been?

• Fixed to [Not even thirty minutes ago back at the palace, the one who proposed they should go on horseback seemed to have been Ineli. "The weather finally turned nice too. Let's take a slight detour," she suggested.]

"That won't do. If the prince had not received an invitation, then even we wouldn't be forced to meet with that boorish Rogue," The one who elatedly stuck out his tongue was Troa Hergei. Projecting himself from below the stomach of his mounted horse that left it as something to be pitied, was the young boy Baton Cadmus. In a bored tone, he began,

• In the first half I was confused by "we wouldn't be forced". In the conversation, Troa was rejecting Orba's suggestion that Orba shouldn't have come. So why does Troa respond by saying Troa was forced to meet with Rogue (implying that it's a negative thing).

• Troa and Gil's other friends wanted to go out and play with him. Orba(Gil) needed to attend an appointed invitation to Rogue Saian's house. So Orba made them tag along with him to Saian's house. Troa most likely doesn't like him due to differences in style. He prefers a "noble" environment, whereas Rogue acts towards the unrefined areas, which he is unaccustomed to. I think the sentence already portrays that, but me being the translator, it might still be unclear. Tell me if it still is, and I'll try to find a way to change it, since nothing comes to mind for me atm.

• I don't get that meaning from the sentence, but even after having it explained to me, I'm having trouble coming up with a good revision. So since I can't come up with anything, and you think it's fine, it's probably most efficient to let this be unless someone else brings it up, or I get a random flash of compositional inspiration that can represent my perspective.

• It could be that 'forced' might come as a bit too excessive of a wording. But that's also how Troa ends up exaggerating it. He isn't actually forced to, since he could just as well not have come, but would have come anyway regardless of where Gil decided to go, and thus was 'forced' into this situation. Of course, I also admit there's still a lot of inferring that has to be done to properly understand this sentence.

• Also, I'm just not sure on the meaning for the sentence "Project himself from below the stomach ... to be pitied".

• changed to "....was Troa Hergei. The young boy stuck his head out from under the horse leaving it as something to be pitied." By 'something to be pitied', it refers to Troa doing whatever he wants of the horse and treating it as his plaything.

During the course of their meal, Rogue told stories of the battlefield. He had to answer to Orba's safety above all. His other comrades were of little interest to him.

• The last two sentences just seem a little out of place, there may not be anything wrong here. I would assume that those two sentences refer to the stories Rouge is telling (because why would he care about Gil's safety during their picnic). But there's nothing else that indicates those sentences are referring to the stories.

• I read the context all wrong because of the strange wording. 無難に答える seems to be a way of saying "to affirm, to consolidate, to confirm." Changed to "...battlefield. Orba did nothing more than attest to them. The others in their company repeatedly blurted out..."

I've always been meaning to hear about it if I ever met brother.

• Suggested change to "I've been meaning to ask about it when I met brother". "always" removed because I don't think it fits something that's only 1 month. "hear" to "ask" because I think it's more natural. And "if I ever" to "when" because I assume Ineli wasn't thinking that she might never meet him, but rather that it was just a matter of how long it would be.
  • always is figurative here, indicating "since she first heard it until this very point in time." Colloquial usages of expressions tend to be more flexible in passage, so I don't see anything wrong with it. And this day is the first time she met him since he came back from the campaign so I added 'with' to alter it, but I'll double-check the raws at a later date to see if I can make the sentence more flexible. For now, "I've always been meaning to ask about it if ever met with brother"

He felt a hot sensation transmitted to those parts, and also, an impact as if he received blows to his forehead. // When he realized what it was, he broke into tears, as Ran hugged his back.

• I don't really understand what's going on here, but that may be because it relates to the 'voice', which I assume is introduced in chapters 6+ of volume 1 (or I forgot it if it was earlier).

• Through the very hand Romus used to touch the dragon, the feelings of the dragon(bodily sensations) were transmitted to him, and he could also feel it in those respective parts. Of particular note was the throbbing sensation in the head, which he quickly associated with his repeated violent thrusts on the dragon with the blunted spear. This 'voice' appears to be a linkage of senses between a dragon and receiver, but you're right, it probably needs a more detailed explanation.

The dragon fervently extended its claws between the bars of the cage.

• Suggested changed of "extended" to "thrust" as more active word choice.

• 'Extended' is weird, but 'thrust' doesn't exactly fit the contact. Changed to "The dragon fervently swung its claws out between the bars of the cage."

Part 3

Ineli giggled, and taking Orba's hand, crossed it around her surprisingly slender arms.

• I can't quite picture crossing a hand around someone's arms. Maybe that's just me though.

• Changed to "wrapped it around her arms"

They conferred the financially well off Baton as leader, and often hung out in 'groups' around these parts.

• "conferred ... Baton as leader" doesn't quite fit together . If keeping the word 'conferred' then I think it should be something like "conferred ... Baton the status of leader" so that the thing being conferred is a noun. Though you could come up with other alternatives if you changed other things.

• Will be changed as mentioned.

In the few years from the time Oubary had down his village until he was made to become a gladiator,

• I think it's missing a word in "Oubary had down", or would otherwise need to be changed.

• should be "had burned down." Guess I thought I typed it but actually didn't.

"I don't care if he's alive, the gun, slice his whole arm off!"

• From the surrounding context, I thought "I don't care as long as he's alive" would be better for the first part, but that's pretty much opposite of the current meaning.

• No, you're actually right. I had misinterpreted the contraction ありゃ for あれは, when it was in fact あれば. I also reworded to sentence to better reflect the speech. Changed to "Long as he's alive, I don't give a damn! The gun, slice his whole arm off!"

Twice, thrice he repelled the puring onslaught of daggers.

• I assume "puring" was meant to be "pouring", but I thought I'd double check instead of changing it myself.

• Right, it should be pouring.

A colour of surprise and impatience suspended on the dirt-covered mens' faces.

• I think "suspended" should be changed to something like "showed", "hung", or "appeared", depending on the intended meaning/style. Also, "colour of suprise" seems like a bit unusual word choice, but I suspect it might have been choosen to match the original.

• Yep, it's according to how it was used in the raws. It's unusual, I agree, but not incomprehensible, so I kept it as is. Changed 'suspended' to 'hung'.

and with the dagger in his back, stabbed the man in the chest with his left.

• Suggested change of "in his back" to "on his back" (or "strapped to his back"). "In" makes it sound a little like he had been stabbed.

• Will changed to "strapped to his back"

The matter regarding the aforementioned 'Raira' weighed on Orba's mind.

• I'm guessing the spelling was changed to reflect that the original used a different way of representing her name than the usual Layla. I can't speak to the issue of it as a translation, but the switch from L to R is a little jarring (I know they're often interchanged). I would propose that the single quotes (an the i instead of y if kept) would represent the difference in the original well enough, and that R could be changed to L.

• This is a mistake on my part. It should be Layla, but it seems I missed one of them.

He indeed spoke in a refined demeanour, and yet gentle tone notwithstanding the piercing glint in his eyes.

• The second part is currently a fragment and needs a verb. A possible revision would be "..., and yet, gentle tone notwithstanding, his eyes held a piercing glint."

• It's better off as a single sentence. "He indeed spoke with a refined demeanour and yet gentle tone, notwithstanding the piercing glint in his eyes."

Orba began pondering, if he should falter at least once as the prince, when his thoughts were cut short.

• Not sure what the middle part, "if he should falter at least once as the prince", means in this context.

• It should mean "As one in the prince's shoes, would the prince have faltered from this or not?" Internal debate over how he should best proceed to act as Gil.

Or so Baton said, but it was obvious to everyone that even now, his face paled, he was terrified of what other troubles he might find himself caught up in.

• The "even now, his face paled" breaks up the sentence a bit. I would suggest "obvious to everyone that, with his pale face, he was terried of"

• Does "....obvious to everyone that even now his paled, terrified of...." still sound weird to you? I'm just placing commas in conjunction to where they are located in the raws for personal reference, but they might be more confusing than necessary at times.

• Mmmhh... yes still a little bit. The word "face" got dropped, so you might have meant "...that even now his face paled, terrified of..." What sounds awkward in that is that now "his face" is what's terrified (rather than him). What I didn't like in the original was the fact that a "his face paled" could be a complete sentence by it's own, and that it completely broke up main sentence. This is making a significant change to the sentence structure, and possibly its intended meaning, but an example of what I would think is the best is "but his pale face made it obvious to everyone that, even now, he was terrified of..."
• Hmm, I see. Usually I would put something like "his face paled, as he lay terrified" or "as he stood terrified" but neither fits in the context so I omitted it. In this case, splitting it in two sentences would be better than altering the structure. Changed to "Or so Baton said, but even now, his face paled. It was obvious to everyone he was terrified of what other troubles he might find himself caught up in."

• I like your split sentence solution.

• There are two uses of "approached closer". I would suggest removing "closer" as I think that "approach" already contains that meaning.

• I'll keep note of that. I just chose approached closer to keep it closer to first person narrative, as opposed third person narrative to using "approached him." I'll check over it at a later time. *Fixed and substituted the appropriate nouns.