Editing Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter2

== References & Translators Notes ==

=== Moe ===

While its exact definition could be debated on (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29 Wikipedia's entry]), "Turn-on Factor" is a nice catch-all translation of it. Which direction you get 'turned on' can be varied: strong desire to protect and cuddle, "I so want to go out with him/her", fuzzy warmth at Omega cuteness - these are some possibilities all of which could fall under "Moe".

=== The Fall of Hyperion ===
About this passage:

''All the members are here today. Nagato Yuki sat in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about the effects of Saturn's satellites falling down. Asahina didn't have to come but still obediently arrived, sitting on a steel chair looking confused.''

The original Japanese text is:

一応メンバーは揃っていた。相も変わらず長門有希は定位置で土星のマイナー衛星が落ちた
とかどうしたとかいうタイトルのハードカバーを読みふくり、来なくてもいいのに生真面目に
もちゃんとやって来た朝日奈みくるさんは在所なげにパイプ椅子に腰掛けている。

So far as I can tell, a better translation of the passage would be:

''Anyway, all the members were here today. Nagato Yuki was in her usual spot, reading a hardback book about a minor satellite of Saturn falling down, or something like that. Asahina didn't have to come but had still obediently arrived, seated on a steel chair and looking confused.''

Obviously, the book in question (as we've seen in the anime) has to be ''The Fall of Hyperion'' by Dan Simmons -- but equally obviously, Kyon doesn't recognize it, and thinks it's about Hyperion the satellite of Saturn. This is marked by the tentative nature of his ''to ka doushita to ka iu taitoru''.

I'm changing this passage as shown, in the body text, but I just wanted to explain why I've changed it this way. I really think that we might want to include a translator's footnote here, to the effect that we know which book is meant, but that the confusion was present in the original text, and is indisputably deliberate on the part of the author. Are we going to make footnotes? If so, this is a good place for one. 

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 19:14, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

: That is a reasonable edit in my book. --[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 22:57, 21 April 2006 (PDT)



The general story is seven pilgrims re-visiting a planet, and most of the book is composed of the life stories of each pilgrim.

I read the first life story (the priest's) yesterday. It's one powerful piece of writing. I'd call it one of the most striking scifi tales I've read in the past year. If you get the chance, go read it...

Eleutheria 09:45, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

I've read the entire series, both the two "Hyperion" stories, and the two "Endymion" sequelae. It's excellent, though the coherence of the story wavers a bit near the end. I believe that I'm not the only one of the "regulars" who has read it all. 

Then again, I've read a ''lot'' of science fiction over the years. 

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 12:43, 1 May 2006 (PDT)


I read the Fall of Hyperion today.  Took me from lunch to 8 pm, since I wanted to soak in all of it.  Rachel's exact timeline took some puzzling.

I'm now convinced that Nagato Yuki doesn't really read.  Those thick books are for show.  If she had got anything out of the Fall of Hyperion, she wouldn't still be so emotionless.  She'd have realized the truth behind the Void Which Binds.

---[[User:Eleutheria|Eleutheria]] 17:14, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

=== Doraemon ===

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doraemon Doraemon] is probably the most famous robotic cat in Japanese culture.  And it does smile a lot, apparently.

From Wikipedia:
<cite>
:Doraemon possesses a four-dimensional pocket from which he can produce all manner of futuristic tools, gadgets and playthings from a future department store.
</cite>

This dovetails nicely with the image of Haruhi smiling as she pulls something devious out of her bag.

--[[User:The naming game|The naming game]] 17:23, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

:Ooh, good spot yeah - forgot to write that down after the Reference system was implemented. And yes, Doraemon does smile a lot - with a big big mouth expression.

:--[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 17:50, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

== Current Translation Debates ==

==== I know it isn't right to criticize, but these two sure have a lot of free time on their hands! ====
I wonder if this might be better (or more idiomatically) phrased:

<cite>
:I know '''I'm not one''' to criticize...
</cite>

This has almost the same meaning, but I don't know if it's faithful enough to the original text.  Any translator care to comment?

--[[User:BlckKnght|BlckKnght]] 00:47, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

:That's a messy part of the English language, when non-grammatical things acquire meaning through usage.
:Literally, 
:EX.1a
:<cite>
::I'm not one to criticize
:</cite>
:means
:EX.1b
:<cite>
::I'm not one '''[of those people who you would normally expect]''' to criticize
:</cite>
:but in usage, it's come to also mean
:EX.1c
:<cite>
::I'm in no position to criticize.
:</cite>
:''(actually, the "correct" term is "I shouldn't be one to criticize", but correctness is for the British.)''
:Usage aside, though, the meaning you're going for is what makes the most sense in context.  

:Actually, which of those two meanings did you mean?  I had EX.1c in mind. ''(As I'm not a translator, I can only comment on the English/logical side of things.)''

:Great, now I'm confused. The way I see it, Kyon's wasting time in the clubroom too, so he's in no position to say that they have too much time on their hands.  Which is the only meaning of the sentence that's in character. I mean, come on -- has he ever been afraid of letting loose with snarky comments before? When has he ever felt guilty about criticizing people?

:--[[User:The naming game|The naming game]] 13:12, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

Aren't idiom's fun?  EX.1c is what I would say the idiom "I'm not one to criticize" means, and it seems very appropriate for the situation (Kyon has a lot of free time on his hands too).  I think I'll go ahead and make the change, but if any translators think the idiom says too much more than the original Japanese, we can put it back.

--[[User:BlckKnght|BlckKnght]] 16:01, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

:It was kind of sitting in the back of my head, and suddenly I realized that both interpretations of the term make sense grammatically.  EX.1d (e.g. EX.1b) is the only one I've seen in stuffy academic works, but then again, academics use much more elaborate means of undermining the credibility of others.
:EX.1d
:<cite>
::I'm not one '''[who is inclined]''' to criticize
:</cite>
:EX.1e
:<cite>
::I'm not one '''[who is qualified]''' to criticize
:</cite>
:So maybe English isn't as messy as I thought it was.  Still, there's always "I could care less" (''should be "I couldn't"'') -- that one definitely bugs me.

:--[[User:The naming game|The naming game]] 19:02, 4 May 2006 (PDT)

== Resolved Translation Discussions ==
 
==== "...... If I could never marry because of this, would you still marry me......?" ====

「・・・私がお嫁にいけなくなるようなことになったら、貰ってくれますか・・・？」

According to the [http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?showtopic=1711607&st=625# detail analysis] of the original Japanese novel in MegaTokyo, the correct phase should be ''"Should something happen to me (that would keep me from marrying someone under a normal circumstance), will you marry me?"''

Blah I wish people(aka readers) would correct it when they notice a major mistake.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 02:00, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Well, quite literally, Asahina is saying: 

"If something should happen so I cannot become a bride, will you take me?"

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 02:29, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

So...change it? (It's 3 o'clock am here and my brain is on auto mode. You decide.)

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 02:45, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Done. Oh, and it's just past noon here -- I'm on Central European Time (GMT+1).

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 03:05, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

== Layout and Style questions. ==

I'm trimming down a really big gap between the lines:

<cite>
:Very soon, I would find out.
</cite>
and
<cite>
:And that is to make an SOS Brigade website!
</cite>

It had been 10 blank lines.  I'm about to reduce it to 5 like all of the section breaks, but I wanted to make a note of the change there was some reason for the extra big break at that location.

--[[User:BlckKnght|BlckKnght]] 01:34, 4 May 2006 (PDT)