Editing Talk:Utsuro no Hako:Volume3 Round 1

So, do we use it (Kaichou) as a nickname or a title? The use of "the" should be unified in accordance to that, right now it is irritating. If we decide to use it as a nickname and it sounds strange without "the" in some cases, I suggest changing those into English.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 11:53, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:The best would be to change all occurrences into English, I think. But if there's no appropriate term I'd go for the title. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 12:22, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I will change the Kaichou not used as an address to "the president" for now, although it may be slightly odd. When used as a form of address, I'll keep it for now, lacking a better alternative. As for alternatives: "Shindo-san", "Iroha(-san)" and "Prez'" come to mind, but I am not happy with either of them, for obvious reasons (not the title anymore/overly familiar => away from the original Japanese). Since you are the translator, it's your call, I'd say.

Or we keep Kaichou as form of address. It would work since you explained it at the beginning, and we keep "-san" and "calling by last name", too, so it shouldn't stand out too much.

By the way, it would be more convenient to discuss such matters in real-time... Is there any way? Maybe IRC?--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 14:07, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

P.S.: Editing done, and I fear it is too much of "the president". I suggest changing at least some of them to "Iroha(-san)" or "Shindo(-san)". I can do that later, if you want me to and trust my judgment on it.--[[User:Kadi|Kadi]] 14:20, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
:I automatically think of *the* president, when reading "president" for some reason. :D How about "chairman" or something along these lines? Also, I'm usually online on #UtsuroNoHako@irc.rizon.net [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 14:27, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

'chairman' ('board chairman') might be 'rijichou' (理事長); 'seitokaichou' (if I remember correctly) is translated so consistently across various fictions as 'student council president' that it could be confusing/disorientating for a different form to be used.
Regarding name-substitution, I personally prefer for translations to as accurately as possible (with editor's notes explaining hard-to-translate parts as necessary) represent what the original text says, but understand that preferences differ.
:I see your point. I looked over the scanlation of "Kaichou wa Maid-sama" the other day and they used "president" there as well. So, English people, tell me what you'd like to see: "Kaichou", "president" or "chairman". Honestly speaking, I have no clue which sounds the most natural. ;)<br />(by the way, great speculations! The next chapter might resolve at least one of them.) [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 12:08, 3 May 2010 (UTC) 

(An exciting story development!  If all were allowed to know their classes and meet in the same room before anyone had died, they might be able to all willingly reveal their classes to narrow down who the King was while still at least somewhat committed to cooperation and stalling for time.  The timetable seems deliberately set up to prevent that, which is interesting given that it's known that at least two people are suspect afterwards (the King and the Sorcerer, if I understand correctly); ah, but the Double is also suspect if there's been Substitution, though that's fairly unlikely so early...  Interesting if 'not reading one's own class' could become a valid tactic in not earning the enmity of others.  Helpful if the Prince's tactic is passive.  Perhaps the means of death will be identifiable, to see whether the Knight or the Sorcery or the Revolutionary has killed someone...

There's the question of 'Who is 0 this time?' still.

Will the Prince know if the Sorcerer has tried to kill him?  The Sorcerer will know who the Prince is, and needn't worry about the Double as someone else might due to only killing who the King directs.

The '30 minute two-person conversation' might or might not be an information-flow limiting factor.  One person could meet with another, that person could pass on that information to the next...  but do you select the people by 'name' or by 'class'?  It would probably have to be by 'name', as otherwise one could find out others' classes by selecting them (unless that's a valid gameplay tactic--no, it can't be, or the King would just identify the Revolutionary and ), but without knowing the other's class it could be difficult to have a conversation more useful than the public one.  Are those conversations recorded as well as the public ones, I wonder?

Here's a problem:  how can the Prince possibly win?  The Prince needs the King, the Double and the Revolutionary to die.  These are the three people who have the power to decide whether people die or not.  Once two of them are killed, there's no way to kill the third.  Will the knife be used by the Prince to eventually try to kill someone in person?  Is the Prince inherently a doomed class, to prompt a desire to slip out in that person?

All the others can hypothetically win through buttons only.  Only the Prince is bound to kill someone with his or her own hands.  Interesting, perhaps?  *looks forward to seeing such either noticed and mentioned by the characters or discredited as a misunderstanding*  Very enjoyable!  *great happiness*)

It would be very interesting if Maria's the Prince and Kazuki's the Double... Then, it would be difficult for Maria to win, and Daiya (who is probably the king) can use Kazuki as a substitute which could make Maria accidently kills Kazuki.

I wonder:  is Maria able to kill people through buttons?  It's known that there's some reason that she's inherently unable to take violent action against others, but does that extend to all forms of indirect violence or only to direct physical violence?  If she's not able, then that would certainly simplify her position.
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(*ponders the seeming difficulty of the King to succeed, compared to the Revolutionary, given the propensities of those who obey (or not) and the decisions of those who obey (or not) depending on class-knowledge or not...*)

*reads the update very happily*  Two triangles!  Assuming that Kazuki won't kill anyone, if I understand correctly the first victim could only come from the Revolutionary; if Maria were the Revolutionary, for instance, the entire game could be stymied at least until someone killed someone with a knife.  (I have a vague suspicion/hunch/wouldn't-it-be-interesting-if-that-were-so-impression that Maria might be the King, but...  hmm.)  Interesting regarding that the conversations aren't recorded and that the conversation partners are shown!  Curious that the meetings aren't listed in order of occurrence.  *wonders whether there's any secret significance*

i tried seeing what you sayd, and you know what i found out?
sorcerer is posted as fourth, so is kazuki hoshino in the meetings ==> 1+1= 2??? 
maybe it means that maria is revolutionary, daya is double and going on if it is as you sayd^^
(here is the list 
[Iroha Shindou]  ->  [Koudai Kamiuchi]  16:20~16:50  king
[Yuuri Yanagi]  ->  [Iroha Shindou]  15:40~16:10  prince
[Daiya Oomine]  ->  [Kazuki Hoshino]  15:40~16:10  double
[Kazuki Hoshino]  ->  [Maria Otonashi]  15:00~15:30  sorcerer
[Koudai Kamiuchi]  ->  [Yuuri Yanagi]  15:00~15:30  knight
[Maria Otonashi]  ->  [Daiya Oomine]  16:20~16:50  revolutionary
it should be something like this ^^)

Ah, I just realised that there are only three rounds in the table of contents.  Still, enough time for six people to die.  Even so, interesting to imagine how it might develop...  *still on a metaphorical seat-edge*

3 rounds 3 supermen and 3 men with various ability(one lucky one able to master boxes and the other don't remember)

*happiness at the update!*  A _good_ reason for them to be cautious in not revealing about Daiya's culpability, confirmation that Maria cannot kill even through buttons (though I've forgotten if it were ever explained why she has that limitation, though it's been explained that it exists:  a function of her box?), and the revelation of Maria's class.  No mention of the necessity of the Prince to kill someone else to win, nor of the potential of others killing others outside buttons (it occurs to me that, hypothetically, any of the players could win by with their own hands killing all the other players).  An interesting part about the ability to quickly give a (practically rehearsed?) reason for being unable to kill others.  With this, initial conferrence/conferrence is over.  From here on will be the start of things...  ah, and the inbetween Daiya-part:  I must remember to read it carefully for clues as to how the story will develop.  What of significance could/will be said (in either direction), I wonder...  *smiles*  *significant gratitude for the continuing translation*  [Sort-of edit:  Sorry, not that the Prince has to kill someone without buttons to win, but that someone has to die in a non-button-related manner for the Prince to win.  The means is not set in stone.  ...I wonder about food, whether food can be stolen...]

:I also wondered about food, but more like taking it from the players that are dead/zombie. It could prolong the game a little bit after all. Also, the sorcerer could just steal one portion of food (if nobody else does) and then wait for all other to die by becoming mummies (though zombies are cooler) since the sorcerers wining conditions are already meet. (The mummies are interesting though, when can you risk running into them?)
:Maria needs to be killed by all other players, except Kazuki which doesn't need to kill/be killed. Please don't go for the "I don't need to kill anyone, but if I doesn't Maria will die" problematic, it is too boring... (though the book wouldn't change no matter how much I beg...)
:It is also interesting to see how the type of killing aren't the same. Some just have death, while other have elimination and murder. For example, if the King becomes a mummy because he forgot to each food, then [Revolutionary] can't win because he died of natural causes and doesn't meet the wining condition of "'''murder''' of [King]".
:Just 3 persons need to die, what a wonderful game. But it is interesting how unbalanced this game is. [The Double] just needs to kill [Prince] and [Revolutionary] and he have won and there is no players left that needs to kill him. But the prince needs to kill 4 players. (if [knight] doesn't die, the game will continue and until either [prince] or [knight] dies, so he would have to kill him too.)
:Well, "First Day <D> Big room" will be interesting, there should be lots of hints to what type the other players are. (only 43% so far? will the big meeting room and dinner really be the next 57%, or does the rounds span over multiple days? (the way the headings are written could suggest this.))
:Btw, isn't there a good way to format this discussion? It is a bit difficult to see who wrote what...
:--[[User:Spiller|Spiller]] 20:48, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
::The conditions are met when the respective targets die. So even if some of them turned into mummies, the conditions would still be met; Or at least I think so. After all the [Revolutionary] would still 'become the king', even if the [king] starved and didn't die by his hands. Also, you'd better ignore the chapter titles - there were none in the original book to begin with. [[User:EusthEnoptEron|EusthEnoptEron]] 00:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

who do you think the box is of? o thinks it is of the lucky boy(don't remember name)

It can be Kaichou's as well. Also, how did Daiya know what awaits them, whe he said lets play.

nah, i don't think it will be kaichou's but maybe of her friend or the lucky guy i'm sure it is of one of these 2

but her friend is dead...lucky guy is pretty obvious...that's why i doubt him. But the real mindfuck will be - maria is "0"