Editing Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi

== Reviews from Readers ==

Don't forget to sign your comments! (^^;)>

==== Beautifully Crafted ====
Without a doubt one of the best piece of work that ever come out of Japan (manga, anime, games). Great story-telling, twists and turns and it kept me guessing until the end especially Volume 1. Thanks a lot to the translator(s) and editors. 
Arutoki #lurk @irchighway

==== Thank you! ====
Thanks for the translations. I've been checking this site off and on but I'm reading in the chronological order so I'm eagerly awaiting charmed at first sight lover XD I know a good amount of Japanese but I don't have the novels and my kanji skills are rather craptastic (I need my furigana ;-;) so you guys are a real life savor :). Thanks again and keep up the good work!

[http://hinano.animeblogger.net Hinano], August 17, 2006


==== Good Stuff ====

Many thanks for translating these novels.  I have a few minor gripes - mainly grammatical stuff, and the occasional queer-sounding descriptive sentence - all of which are compensated for by the relatively quicker releases.  If I could help out, I would be happy to, but I don't know any Japanese.  Keep up the good work, and I hope to see you guys finish volume 4.

Anonymous Coward, August 2006


==== Unknown Comment ====

From an appreciative fan, 'I love the work all of you do and thank you for it. There is nothing sweeter than pouring one's energy into one's passion. Please update 'The Dissapearance of Suzimiya Haruhi' and others. Once again, thank you for your dedication and work.

==== Looking Good! ====
Really, I'm really enjoying the good work you guys are doing. Suzumiya Haruhi is really a great work, but so is the work that you all have done so far. Thank you very much for allowing us foreigners a chance to read these books.

-Mr.Pringles
July 22, 2006


==== I'd hit it! ====

Thanks you for translating these novels! I've been watching the anime, but reading the novels adds so much more depth to the series! Thank you very much! Keep it up

-FW July 1, 2006

==== Haruhi FOREEEVVEEER ====

hey mates! thanks for all your work! 

Just want to tell you we appriciate what your doing, for all use dis-lingo haruhiist!

:p

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 16:57, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

==== Thanks ====

I love the story so far. Thanks a lot~

==== Well Done ====

I've finished reading volume 1 of your translations and I must say that you guys are really hard working. Good job getting them done. The quality and readibility of them translations really shows. Keep up the good work!

==== Thank you ====

I'm greatly impressed by the speed at which you are translating this. Almost goes to prove the Haruhi-craze that has taken us by storm. Admirable work.

==== you guys are the best ====
thank you very much !!!!
You 0wn !

==== AWESOME ====

I am trully impressed at the speed and quality of these translations! Keep up the amazing work!

==== A bit of trivia for you: ====
According to the changelog, this project started last year! And here's a brief summary of what happened (so you don't have to scour through the change log yourself):

* November 11, 2005
->Start of project 
* December 24, 2005
->Volume 1, Prologue complete 
* April 15, 2006
->Moved everything to MediaWiki

->Volume 1, Chapter 1 complete 


After this date, everything kicked off! Funnily enough, this happened after "The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi" anime was released.

Just shows how much ''Haruhism'' has spread and infected us all, including yours truly.

Great stuff everybody. Keep up the good work! (I'll help out more once my college exams conclude... yeah... by the 30th of May...)

====Thank you====
Thank you for all the hard work on translating the novels. Keep up the good work

[[User:Da~Mike|Da~Mike]] 01:11, 9 May 2006 (GMT)
----

====Woa====
by finishing the first volume, I just spoiled myself the end of the anime serie ... and I don't regret it one bit ^^;

Anyway, gokurosama (<small>thanks you for your hard work, or smth like that</small>) to our dear translators ! [[User:Darkoneko|Darkoneko]] 17:37, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

====Kei====

Dear All, i found while reading Volume 6: Live A Live, from the third part where Kyon is talking about Yakisoba onwards, Taniguchi's name has been either misspelt "Tanaguchi", or it has become confused with Kunikida, becoming Kuniguchi... Or am I badly mistaken? Thanks in advance for the time taken to do such a good job, and apologies if I am wrong =P

18 June 2006 1500hrs +8.0 GMT


====Kei====
Dear All, i managed to download scans of the Novels up to volume 7 (chinese version). While reading thru, i found minor translation errors. I think it corresponds to the word ban/man　萬 (jpn), or wan 万 in simplified or traditional kanji. It should be translated not as a million, but rather as 10,000. Yes, in chinese and japanese, a million is hyaku-man or 一百万， one hundred 10Ks.

Thanx! XD

Thanks for a really good job on a really interesting project.  

It is facinating to watch the work in progress.

====Steven====

====Bravo Zulu!====
~begin transmission~

An excellent job on an excellent series. Carry on. Please voluntarily arrest someone to work on 
Tanigawa Nagaru-san's other works. 

~end transmission~

/kaoSFell

P.S. "Bravo Zulu" is sailor talk for Well Done.

== Kyon's Tenses ==

Does anybody have any clarification on this?

I think uniform past tense in the prologue sounds better for sure, but if he's not revealing foreknowledge in the rest of the chapters, then present tense would seem to be more logical.




*please refer to http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Format_guideline

for the guidelines.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 18:07, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Regrading the format of Baka-Tsuki Wiki ==

I am not really a fan of adding all those volumes' names into the "Finished works" part as it might make others think that we(the translators/editors) have it all planned out.
Therefore I am going to move the volume titles into another section of the page.

That being said, if any of you want to translate a particular volume (doesn't have to be in numerical order), you are welcome to do so. 

Those aside. I am currently trying to find the best format for this wiki. Thus please do not edit the main pages excessively for the next few days.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:54, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we may be making this look more "professional" than we want to. There is always a danger of being ''too'' professional, if you see what I mean. Meanwhile, I've added a page on [[Tanikawa Nagaru]] with some biographical data and a bibliography.
--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:42, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

If you are referring to the edits I've made to a couple of the main pages, I just find it much easier to be able to click "Community portal" on the sidebar to go back to the index then to have to go to the main page and click the link. That and I don't like how external links look.
--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:38, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== As for the tenses problem  ==

''I can't decide. As you are probably aware, there are some parts that are more suitable with passive voice, while others are plainly narrarated in past tense.'' - I on AS forum

I will leave it at the translators' discretion for now until we come to a general consensus.

--[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 20:56, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

: I think when Kyon is relating to a specific image that is depicted in the novel, he is more likely to talk in the present tense (such as when he makes an aside comment or explanation aimed at the audience).  It sounds like a way for the author to immerse the reader in Kyon's environment.  Oh, and I don't think using past tense for Kyon's musings of Haruhi's personality is proper since it implies that Haruhi is now different from how she was in the past.  There are moments such as when Kyon considers his outlook on life where using the past tense seems obvious.  I'm of the opinion of mixing past/present tense in consideration of the Kyon's current focus (Haruhi, dialogue, life outlook, audience aside, etc.). Overall, I think The Melancholy of Haruhi novel reads best when rendered as a very descriptive play.

: As for the passive/active voice, I'm only making changes where I think the text reads too rough or awkward in the wording.  That's some ambiguous criteria, but it's all I have to go by with no special training. -- [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

::Personally, in the proofreadings I've been doing, I would just change it to past tense if it is obvious Kyon is talking about something in the past. If it isn't, I leave it as-is. I'm kind of unsure what to say about a standard for this, though. Some things are obviously present, while others - such as the example mentioned above (when Kyon talks about others' personalities and such) are more debateable. -- [[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 04:44, 20 April 2006 (PDT)


:I'll repeat what I suggested in the Ch 1 discussion page (we do need to decide where to talk about standardising styles - I agree with the Current Events idea):

::''I think we need to ascertain one thing first before we can discuss what should and shouldn't be in present tense - what is 'the present' for Kyon's narration? As in, is he telling this story years after the end of all possible Suzumiya Haruhi novels or is he living out his experiences as the novels get written? I'm inclined to think the latter - specifically that 'the present' for Kyon for Chapter 1 is a few days after the SOS-dan was formed. As in, chapter 1 is about him recounting the backstory up to his 'present time' of being in the newly formed SOS-dan.''  --[[User:Psieye|Psieye]] 09:02, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

== Differentiating Kyon's dialogue ==
From what Thelastguardian tells me, Kyon's dialogue is not contained in parathesis in the novel.  This sounds like the author is trying to allow the reader to connect with Kyon on a more personal level by making him less a character in a story and more a familiar friend sharing a personal story.  Of course, that makes for some confusing dialogue since his words are not differentiated from his inner thoughts.  And even if we put parenthesis around his words, there are no ", said Kyon" or ", mumbled Kyon" like is found in most novels that I'm familiar with.

A solution that I believe will do nicely is to simply italicize Kyon's words throughout the novel.  Thus, we are both maintaining the author's literary style and differentiating Kyon's words in a way not overly invasive of the original text.

--[[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 00:48, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

That Kyon's dialogue isn't in parentheses, I took to mean that much of it was internal dialogue -- in effect, the only person Kyon is speaking to is the reader, as Kyon functions as narrator. 

--[[User:Freak Of Nature|Freak Of Nature]] 14:44, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

: Not exactly. There are parts that make no sense if Kyon didn't say that line out loud. It goes something like this (just some random sentences).
: ''A: "But this can't be true!!"''<br>
: ''B: Well, this is what is happening now!''<br>
: ''A: "I don't care!"''

: You can almost say that the point of view of the story changed briefly in that dialogue.

: It is almost as if Kyon is talking to us, the reader, as well as the character inside the story.

: The script is littered with this kind of dialogues.
: --[[User:Thelastguardian|Thelastguardian]] 17:59, 19 April 2006 (PDT)


:It seems like there are parts of each.  Just reading through it, I didn't see it as a big deal, though.  You can usually tell what is and isn't internal dialogue by context.  Also, I think there are parts that are supposed to make the reader think that Kyon said them, which then are followed up by lines like, "Or that was what I would have said."  This effect would be ruined if Kyon's dialogue was highlighted.

:--[[User:kumarei|Kumarei]] 0:53, 8 May 2006

== Editor section ==


While there are many contributing users, some stand out more then others so I have added a editor section to show who has been contributing more then three times.

That is my take, but perhaps we need a discussion on how many edits and the quality of them, to determines who should be mentioned here?

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 13:15, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

== Standardlizing Script Format ==

Hello fellow Editors & contributors.

Lets open the debate on the topic of standardlize writing format. 

While we all respect each translators scripting style, it has been general agreed by thelastguardian that it would be unwise for readers to experience different styles across each chapters, and he has suggested that a translater undertakes a volume each. 

I personally find that this will only result in the same problems except it will be by volume to volume with each translators taking more time, and forcing the reader to take longer to change from one style to another as they will have grown familiar with each volume style.

I suggest we let the translators to get on with their jobs, and have the editors worry about it, let you lot standardlize it so that they will flow together. 

lets find a compromise between all the translators styles, finding the easiest and less labour edit intense would be preferred.

I suggest those who have just recently join this projects, to read this thread at Animesuki.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31120

We are hoping to form some sort guideline by the end of this, so please debate here, or on the animesuki thread mentioned above. 

thanks.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 04:42, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

::Intriguing idea. I am of the same opinion, and, in fact, I was just opening a new section on Chapter 1's talk page for the discussion of odd-sounding phrases and how to make them sound more natural.
::
::In any case, though, it would be a good idea to have some standard for editors. Some issues have already been brought up here, but there seems to have been little actual discussion about them.
::
::--[[User:Ryukaiser|Ryukaiser]] 05:50, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

great.

But now where should we discuss this? I think it would be better if we have some sort of page to debate this, perhaps in this page is not a good idea, as i image it will be quite intense. on the other hand to discuss it on each chapter's indivdual page could lead to too many copies and transcripts to keep an eye on.

Why don't we take over the [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Current_events current events] page to be the page for all debates from Editors & Translators on the formation of the guideline? 

keep it all nice and tidy and allow this page to continues as a place for news and update information.

Why don't we move the points you have brought up already on chapter 01 and any other chapters that have these discussion to this page?

I've just sent a message to thelastguardian for his views before i do anything, but I don't really see any problems with it. 

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 07:08, 21 April 2006 (PDT)

: I'm in favor of keeping discussion wadded up in one page.  Also, I say let the translators translate.  Each translator can be responsible for not deviating too far in style from one another.  [[User:Baltakatei|Baltakatei]] 01:55, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

== Navigation ==
Question, should there be navigation for each chapter at the top and bottom? (Much like how I have navigation from the [[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Illustrations|gallery]] to the [[Suzumiya_Haruhi|main menu]] or to the [[Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Prologue|Prologue]] chapter)<br>
-- [[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 20:33, 21 April 2006 EDT (GMT -4)

* lastguardian has agreed to a unified format guideline page.

So lets get started on it! \(^o^)/

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:50, 21 April 2006 (PDT)


== IRC channel? ==
Should we have an IRC channel for realtime discussion? Might make things faster compared to relying on the AnimeSuki forums as well as the wiki discussion board. -- [[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 19:54, 6 May 2006 EDT

==== Additional Complications ====

While it may seem like a simple solution with realtime discussion, not everyone is versed in IRC, or even bother with it, me included. I find it incredibly over complicated, and old, and i think that other users will also share my view.

If real-time is what you need, why don't you use something like MSN? 

That is in my opinon a better compromise, as MSN also has a "chatroom" feature, but is alot more simple to access, for those who are not familiar with setting up on IRC.

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 17:56, 6 May 2006 (PDT)

MSN doesn't let you idle 24/7 (or is bad at it), keep idiots out of the channel (especially since everyone is an "operator"), or do file transfers very well (8 KB/s limit, anyone?). Plus, I use Trillian, not the crappy MSN software that likes to pop-up every five seconds on my screen.

If you want to make IRC simple, we could always do Java IRC chatrooms. Just click and go. I can handle the "complicated" stuff that involves IRC channel moderation and such, if needed.

[[User:Velocity7|velocity7]] 22:11, 6 May 2006 (EDT)


Is real-time discussion really necessary? 

From my prospective, more doesn't necessary mean better.
I'm all for it if there is a real benefit in key areas that'll improve the project that the current system cannot provide. 

At this moment I don't really see the justification, as not all Translators or certain Dedicated Editors are active every day.

While it is evident that certain discussions here do take their time to respond, I think its part of the Baka-Tsuki way, we don't take things so serious that we have the need to take this to real-time. 
Everyone has a chance to reflect on their response, and at the same time give the project an atmosphere of laid-back, and most important, that this is a fun venture, that people have taken the time to do.

Something I really like about Baka-Tsuki (^^)/

Or have I got this all wrong?

[[User:Onizuka-gto|Onizuka-gto]] 19:37, 6 May 2006 (PDT)


== Spacing ==

I'm wondering whether people would prefer to have the text in the chapters be double spaced. It seems to me that it might make it easier to differentiate seperate portions of the text, and just be more easily read altogether. I double spaced my edit of Vol. 2 Ch. 2 and I find it to be more presentable, however, I'd like to know other peoples' preference on the matter before performing any more editing of the chapters. Double spaced or single spaced?

--[[User:Nandeyanen|Nandeyanen]] 06:35, 18 June 2006 (PDT)

Ah, er, I just reverted your spacing change, not realizing you had done it as an example.  I don't think it is necessary, but I'm willing to go for it if there is a clear consensus of the contributors.  For reference, you can see [[User:Nandeyanen|Nandeyanen]]'s version [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume2_Chapter_2&oldid=4057 here].

--[[User:BlckKnght|BlckKnght]] 07:31, 18 June 2006 (PDT)

I have also opened a topic to discuss this on the forums under the Unified Format Guidelines, which can be found [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=133 here].

--[[User:Nandeyanen|Nandeyanen]] 09:52, 18 June 2006 (PDT)



== Suggestions ==

This discussion has been moved to the forum.

you may continue on this [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=469 thread]

== Hi, I'm Dony ==

I don't know what should i do with a wiki page like - editing. it is my first time i write a comment here. so i just want to give a huge credit to all of you who make this site full of interesting part, beside the story that is amazing, you updated so fast than a blink of an eye (too exagerating ?), no really, last week i checked, Suzumiya haruhi Vol 4 chapter 5 has just yet 25%, now you have already into chapter 6. a giant thankyou for you all who brought this amazing story to me. . . to us. P<^-^> keep up the good work guys, and may the world be more interesting with the present of SOS Dan.