Editing Talk:Horizon:Volume 1 Prologue

==Liberal Editting or not==

Well then, i've taken a look at the first few paragraphs, and I've found that what's there right now is something along the lines of a literal translation correct? Seeing as how it's so descriptive I'm wondering whether you would prefer the editting to be something that sometimes changes the entire sentence or adds different words to convey the same 'feeling' as the original Japanese. Of course I have absolutely no idea how to read Japanese, so the edits i'll be doing will be according to what i read in the translation and then using that as a basis for what I'm about to do. Here are a couple of examples:

''Original''<br />
A clear morning sky. In the blue floated two pale white moons, and below the clear air, waves of dark green mountain gorges overlapped, reaching far. <br />
'''Edited' ver.'' <br />
A clear morning sky. Beyond the azure floated two pale white moons, and below lay waves of dark green mountain gorges, overlapping into the distance.<br />
''Original''<br />
And, another one was the waves. In the sky, waves ran. Lines, not of clouds, but where the surf broke were many, stretching out toward the sky, outlining the character [八]. <br />
'''Edited' ver.''<br />
The second were the waves. Abound in the sky, waves ran. Lines, not of clouds but caused by the breaking of the surf, were prevalent, stretching out through the sky outlining the character [八].<br />
[[User:Skarlath|Skarlath]] 23:55, 2 December 2011 (CST)

I'm completely fine with that; literal translations hardly ever sound good anyway. The only thing I might have a little bit of an issue about is the use of the word 'prevalent'. Other than that, it'd be awesome if you could do that for everything. If you're unsure about something, you can always contact me on my talk page, (I probably won't check the discussions unless you specifically point me towards it.) If I find something that I'm unhappy about, (I probably won't,) I'll let you know. I can't speak for the other translators, of course, but I'm very happy with those edits.

Thanks for taking the time to do this, my English drops to a pre-school level when I'm translating. -[[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 09:12, 3 December 2011 (CST)

One more thing, it'd probably be better to wait for the assent of the other translators before editing the chapters they translate; you can find out who translates what in the registration page. Also, please don't worry about breaking up the literal translation. I try my best to keep the author's writing style prevalent (hah) in the translation, but Japanese and English are different enough languages that things come out very distorted. If you're able to even preserve the slightest aftertaste of the author's intent, I'll love you forever. If you can't, don't worry about it. -[[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 09:22, 3 December 2011 (CST)

==Questions about translation==

So here's some lines I have trouble understanding:
<br />''At the habitable high-skies'' <- Does this mean a certain area of the sky is habitable or does it mean something else?
<br />''Fufufu, it's all right, my make-up was done...'' <- The entire sentence. Is it saying that Kimi reserves the morning for her to put on make-up?
<br />''Margot...not that name, you know...'' and ''The Nakamura-san three over named'' <- both these paragraphs make zero sense to me, sorry. I'll definitely need clarification for these.
<br />''Within Oriotorai's vision, its owner looking'' <- By 'owner' does it mean Oriotorai, or does it mean someone else?
<br />''and with that, they committed.'' <- Committed to what?
<br />More to come once I get to editing them. I lost about a couple of hours work just then, so it'll be a while before you see another edit update... [[User:Skarlath|Skarlath]] 00:15, 9 December 2011 (CST)

Just one thing: It's easier to read if you use # or * instead of line breaks.
# Yeah, that's what I believe it means.
# Kimi takes her time in the morning, she's trying to say how much extra time she has.
# Kimi prefers to be called by names other than her own name because her name sounds like 'raw yolk'. (I should change that from blue.) Nakamura-san three over is presumably her neighbour. She's complaining about her hobbies etc. 
# The owner is Oriotorai, yeah.
# They comitted to the provisional rule/History Recreation.

And that's why I need an editor. Thanks a lot! A few notes, I'll change this myself, but just to let you know:

# Westfallen should be Westphalia.
# Tsirch 'Testament' is supposed to be 'Church'. The word is 教譜 (Teachings/Faith) as opposed to 聖譜(Testament).
# Internally-fueled an externally-fueled should be changed to internal-fuel and external-fuel; I feel internally-fueled etc. is slightly inaccurate.
# There's a sentence where Heidi goes 'and...and...and...', you changed this, but due to the native Japanese structure, it's meant to convey that she's going on and on.
-[[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 01:34, 9 December 2011 (CST)

About Kimi's nickname, is it really Belle Flore and not Belle Fiore? Because, the latter seem to be used in wiki and MAL among other.

== Poem ==

Does the "ka" at the end not mean that it is a question? 

Something like
<pre>
Is it because I might become lost,
Or perhaps that I might be seen through,
Why can I not let go of my heart's compass? 
</pre>

The current translation sounds very profound, but makes little sense. "The reason ... is to be lost" is like the opposite, with a compass you shouldn't be lost. "The reason ... is to be explored", what does to be explored even mean. 

As for what it actually means, I'll say what I think based on my interpretation above which is probably pretty inaccurate because of my current Japanese level (like, at the level that I can't even confidently determine whether the poem is a rhetorical question or a statement...)

I'm not too sure what the heart's compass means or what letting go of it means. I currently think it means something like just letting himself free and not bound to a certain direction/path, but since it's "heart's compass" it seems to be deeper than that. Normally "heart's compass" is like what you know deep inside as the right thing to do, something like an instinct, or morality, but on a higher level. So generally you'd want to follow it. But since Toori is thinking of not following it, I think the meaning is probably different. Right now I'm thinking that it might have to do with fate and following the Testament or something like that. Maybe after actually reading this chapter I might get a different idea... so I'll post again after I finish reading this chapter.

The first line is pretty obvious, that if he lets go of the compass his heart might become lost, in the sense that he might waver in his decisions. Thus, this is one of the reasons he's thinking as to why he doesn't want to let go. 

The second line is that by following that compass he is putting up a front for his real self, so if he was to let go of it, other people might see his true self. Everyone is afraid of other people seeing their true self, so again this is a legitimate fear/excuse.

But I think the reason is probably deeper than that. Those two reasons he came up with are but mere excuses. What is the real reason? I don't know, maybe reading the chapter I might find out, or maybe I'll only find out after reading the entire series. Am I reading too deeply into things? Perhaps. lol

--[[User:Jonathanasdf|jonathanasdf]] 15:17, 16 January 2012 (CST)

<pre>
Is it because I might become lost,
Or perhaps that I might be seen through,
Why can I not let go of my heart's compass? 
</pre>

I like your translation a lot, feel free to replace mine with it.

However, some explaining:

<pre>
Whether to be lost.
Or to be explored.
The reason to keep hold of your heart's compass is something. 
</pre>

Is the current translation and sounds horrible.

<pre>
迷おうとも
穿たれようとも
心の羅針盤を手放さない理由は何か
</pre>

か certainly does indicate a question, but when paired with 何 it means something else. Rather, this is based upon my speculation, and I'm not sure, but I think that it's meant to be 何か instead of 何（です）か. Personally, if I were to say the latter, it'd be 心の羅針盤を手放さない理由はなんだ, but then again, the former is definitely valid as well. Actually, the meaning ends up being the same. 'Something' is the reason, (it's unknown what it is,); as opposed to 'what' is the reason, (still unknown as to what it is,) though the latter is a more obvious question, and I've a paradigm with keeping the chapter introductions with nothing but '.' ignoring all grammar rules or inflections. 

In other words, go ahead. For the rest, your wording is far better than mine; I just half-assed it and made it sound vague. -[[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 03:59, 17 January 2012 (CST)

Oh yes, one more thing, the first and second lines are a point of confusion for me, in terms of verb tense.

They're both in volitional, while 穿つ is in passive-volitional. So, a question as to whether he ''should'' through his own ''intention'' become lost, or be seen through. 

Another implication is that Kawakami-sensei is doing some abbreviation, in which case: 迷おうと「して」も or 穿たれようと「して」も is the meaning here. And then that really brings in a more willful implication, where he's ''trying'' to become lost etc.

Or in other words:

<pre>
Though I try to become lost,
Though I try to be seen through,
Something is the reason for which I do not let go of my heart's compass.
</pre>

The protagonist wants to be lost. He wants to have his inner emotions revealed. However, there ''is'' a reason for him to not let go of what guides him in his heart.

Just put whatever interpretation you want. Chances is, I'm wrong, and yours is most definitely the safest.- [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 04:05, 17 January 2012 (CST)

Oh yeah, and by 'explored', I meant having his emotions or whatever explored. Like I said, half-assed vagueness-mongering. - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 04:14, 17 January 2012 (CST)

Thanks for the excellent lesson again :) 

Whoa, he's ''trying'' to be lost? If that's really the case then I think it changes the meaning significantly enough that my translation won't do. I'll come back to it after finishing reading this chapter (going really slowly, only have around an hour a day free from classes and homework, my lunch break...) --[[User:Jonathanasdf|jonathanasdf]] 10:30, 17 January 2012 (CST)

No, that's just a, if I say so myself, liberal take on it. But one can't forget that it's in volitional ^^ - [[User:YoakeNoHikari|YoakeNoHikari]] 11:32, 17 January 2012 (CST)