Editing User talk:COTHER

this is not a machine translation but my own translation using what I understand from the context, sorry if I'm slow at it, I'm just a novice in japanese kanji.

No probs with that - it looked like machine translation because you left kanjis there (e.g. Receiving the 斬 attacking of sword God) 
- this is what machine translators like Google Translate do. 
But I won't be able to help much editing until a better editor do the first pass :)
 [[User:Acolyte|Acolyte]] ([[User talk:Acolyte|talk]]) 15:01, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

Whatever method he used, I am pretty sure most machine translations would get 斬撃 and 我輩... [[Special:Contributions/173.248.247.253|173.248.247.253]] 15:22, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

Hi COTHER, are you the one that uploaded all volume 9 PREVIEW?. If so, i ask that you please register in the chapters you are doing first so that your translations do not clash with another translator. Also the rules indicate that only at most 2 translators may work per volume, but this can change if either the translator are no longer available or they agree with with help. So far Users Vanant and Dark Kaito Are working together in volume 9 along with Kazeboy. If you did not upload the preview you can ignore this message. [[User:Trejon|Trejon]] ([[User talk:Trejon|talk]])


I didn't have any intention of doing chapters 2-7 myself, though Vanant planned to do some (maybe Skuizaan as well) so he's the one to ask about those, I was going to replace the previews for 8-11 the chapters I did have registered, so it's no problem in the mean time I will replace the previews when my 8-11 are done. --[[User:Dark Kaito|Dark Kaito]] ([[User talk:Dark Kaito|talk]]) 20:12, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

Hey, no worries mate. As long as you make it clear that your google translations are previews(make sure to learn how to use the preview template), then feel free to do whatever you want to the chapters that I've registered. Also, you should end your messages on people's talk pages with four tildes <nowiki> like this → ~~~~ </nowiki> It lets you sign off with a timestamp, like this → [[User:Vanant|Vanant]] ([[User talk:Vanant|talk]]) 20:22, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

== Welcome ==

Dear COTHER,

Welcome to Baka-Tsuki and thank you for your interest in Mushoku Tensei, i am always happy to have more translators, experienced, novices or others.

On chapters that have already registered to a translators, i will have to unfortunately lock your scripts, or until the registered translator has given indication that s/he wish to abandon that chapter.

However on chapters that have not registered any translators, i will leave your scripts unlocked, so you will have the opportunity to improve your translating and seek help from everyone else. 

Please understand that we will have to tag your scripts as "preview", that way readers will know that it is a work in progress. Everyone understands we all have to start somewhere so don't be shy to ask for help or add in the raw japanese to the script, this will allow editors and fellow translators to lend a hand. 

I look forward to seeing your contribution and improvement with your translation in the near future and finally, thank you for helping bring this great light novel to our community.

Best Regards,

Onizuka-GTO 20:39, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

To Onizuka-GTO, feel free to do what seem correct to you, I'm not trying to cause troubles for any registered translators and I thank them for their hard work → [[User:COTHER|COTHER]] ([[User talk:COTHER#top|talk]]) 20:54, 27 July 2014 (CDT)

== Translation advice ==

Dear COTHER,

Ah you are using the 6 web-translator program?

I find that helpful too. It is a good tool.

Just remember when you make your scripts, add -Preview- to the page title to separate it from the conventional page naming within the project.

Like a driving learners plate, this will give readers a warning. 

One last advice, if in doubt over anything within the script and you find a sentence that really makes no sense, always add the Japanese raw text with it. That way, everyone and yourself, will know you have to come back and fix it. 

Roaming editors and veteran translators will then be able to help you figure out how to translate it. After all, people are more forgiving if they can see the source and see how you got to the English.

Thanks again for contributing and always remember to have fun translating. its a hobby not a job. ;)

Best Regards,

Onizuka-GTO

== Writing advice ==

Dear COTHER,

Please I hope you don’t get upset about this but from all the messages you have done so far. I have seen that you lack the use of proper English. You might think that Baka-tsuki is a place where orthography don’t matter much, but it’s courtesy that you write properly so that all others users don’t have trouble trying to understand what you wrote. I hope that this advice help you, since people might think that you don’t know English at all if you use English poorly or in the future you might get used to write poorly and that might lead to trouble for you. Note that im not asking to write perfectly but at least try to mind how you write.

Salute.
[[User:Trejon|Trejon]] ([[User talk:Trejon|talk]]). 17:14 28 July (CDT)

== Volume 11 Chapter 2 ==

why are you posting a preview translation on the page for the official translation? cant you just edit the existing preview? [[User:Sakura|Sakura]] ([[User talk:Sakura|talk]]) 12:01, 29 July 2014 (CDT)

Please use the preview page instead of using two pages for v11c2. [[User:Acolyte|Acolyte]] ([[User talk:Acolyte|talk]]) 12:42, 29 July 2014 (CDT)

i see, i hope you dont feel insulted by this but with that many mistakes in your english its beter to put them as preview till a editor has the time to correct everything or another translator does the chapter, well at least its more worthy of being called a preview then just posting a machine translation, which is something everyone can easily do. [[User:Sakura|Sakura]] ([[User talk:Sakura|talk]]) 14:15, 29 July 2014 (CDT)

== re: need help ==

thats something you should ask the translators, im just someone who makes small edits and cant read japanese at all, if you do find something to learn japanese easily then please tell me aswell :) [[User:Sakura|Sakura]] ([[User talk:Sakura|talk]]) 10:11, 30 July 2014 (CDT)

I learned Japanese from watching anime seriously. So, I'm pretty useless in that regard. I think Vanant, Silent Wolfie, and Skuizaan are the only proper translators on this project. Though I'm pretty sure all of us are at best beginner level as translators in general, they're still way above me. --[[User:Dark Kaito|Dark Kaito]] ([[User talk:Dark Kaito|talk]]) 18:15, 30 July 2014 (CDT)

COTHER, i think that you should learn english first before trying to learn japanese, you clearly need to. [[User:Trejon|Trejon]] ([[User talk:Trejon|talk]]) 20:54, 30 July (CDT)

^ Assuming that you aren't just some huge troll, I'll have to agree with Trejon. Your English is atrocious. [[User:Vanant|Vanant]] ([[User talk:Vanant|talk]]) 23:39, 30 July 2014 (CDT)

== Translation Advice  ==

Dear COTHER,

 WERE I CAN LEARN JAPEN EASLY using the net mean 'self study' 
 if you have anybook that can help please advice it to me 
 i dont whant to rely on machine translation 
 but my one reading of the story even i want to do some proper translation

To give you the short honest answer, there is sadly, no real way to learn any language easily. 

Unless you are particularly gifted, the only other method is by living and using it in a location frequently, i.e. moving to a Japanese reading/speaking location.

I gather that might not be available to you (or to majority of us here sadly)

So what to do if you are like us? The answer is practice practice practice. 

The key is dedication, when you really enjoy a story, you enjoy translating it, the more you enjoy translating, the more you learn the languages.

I grew up with a mother tongue that use latin alphabet (English) therefore it was difficult for me to deal with characters, especially when you need to type it out for a dictionary.

One method was to convert the characters into romanji from characters into latin letter, from that we can use online dictionaries. (google translate can do this. Such a wonderful tool! I wish i had that in 2007)

You can use google translate as well, but if you really want to learn, have to translate each characters (or group of characters) to find a meaning and from there put it together. 

Japanese grammar is different from English and most latin languages so at most, you must be able to learn about it, that way you can go back and revise the sentences again.

Japanese grammar tips:
[http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar Japanese Grammar]

Yes, it sounds like slow work, its always starts out like that, i remember it took me 2 hours to translate 3 sentences. Three sentences. And that was just to make it barely legible. 

It sounds tough, but that's why you must have interest and determination, if you find pleasure and enjoy the story along the way, you steadily get better and faster.

Some of the resources i find helpful can be found in Baka-Tsuki forums:  
[http://www.baka-tsuki.org:8080/forums/viewforum.php?f=55 Baka-Tsuki Lingua Franca Lexicon Forum]

Translators and Editorial tools:

[http://beta.jisho.org/ Jisho Japanese Dictionary]
Powerful and helpful Dictionary which also includes furigana and audio.

[http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C WWWJDIC] 
One of the oldest & reliable Online Japanese dictionary.

[http://kanjidict.stc.cx/?d1=on&s=&btnS=%21&max=10&d3=on&d9=on&d15=on Kanjidict]
Does what it says on the tin. Small but powerful dictionary.


When we rush, we leave so much behind and don't appreciate the small steps we make and that is why so many people give up on things. But if they had kept at it and eventually stop to see what they have done, they will find that all those little steps make a big one and that they have in a blink of a eye, taken a big step.

It's not for everybody and the main point isn't jsut getting from A to B, its the bit in between.

So i ask you COTHER, to give it your best and if you feel like you aren't enjoying it or find it's not for you, it's okay. At least you tried. 
Better to have tried and fail than to have not tried at all and regret it. 

I wish you good luck COTHER. 

Onizuka-GTO 03:00, 31 July 2014 (CDT)


@Chapter 155,  It's realms above of your previous MT previews, a number of lines are spot on in translation and match up with what I remember of it. However, due to the amount of incomplete translated lines, and some lines that are difficult to read or otherwise vague in meaning. It's not quite at the level of a "translation" in my opinion, it's definitely worthwhile as a preview though (could still use some editing as well). I can't give too much specific advice other than that, but it is definitely an improvement from the previous MTs. If that's the best you can do as a translations, rather than full chapter translations, it might be better to read the raws and then do translation checks of current chapters while learning. Post notes in the talk pages if you find something that may or may not match up on other chapters, or help out with some of the later volume 18-19 chapters based on the MTs. Doing previews similar to 155 is fine as well, but the translation isn't refined enough to go beyond that yet.  --[[User:Dark Kaito|Dark Kaito]] ([[User talk:Dark Kaito|talk]]) 21:43, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

== Web Novel 155 feedback ==

Dear COTHER,

I will give you the short answer to your question: 
If you consider your translation efforts hopeless, then it is.
But if you consider your translation efforts good, then it certainly isn't. 


The long answer? Lets give you some context so you understand what this long answer is about.

I am a fluent native English speaker and writer. I can consider myself a master of my mother tongue. 
Yet if you put me an English Test designed for someone learning English from a different language that they grew up with? 
I am certain that i will fail it. In fact since i work in an Non-English country, in a place where they speak very little english, this is very very obvious.

Written English or any language is something that you cannot simply say: Okay, what i have written here is good. 
It can always be better.  Nothing is more humbling than to have people who have learnt English as a second language, looking at the things i have written and correcting it, because i have written it wrong.

The Answer:
From an English perspective, there are issues with your grammar that make some sentences hard to read, you must always keep working on improving. 

Translation wise, this is something that will be difficult for me to assess, because I myself, is not a translator (or one of the worse type of amateur).

That is to say, there is no way for you to find a way for you to know and improve at the same time.

At mushoku tensei, we have an excellent resource and team of translators that can actively help you.....yet you will never have to disturb a single one of them.

I am of course talking about the translation done by the various translators here.

Lets take one look at one the translators who we know is much better than either of us and who has scripts that have satisfactory english.

Volume 9, Chapter 2 by Skuizaan.

This is a very simple task, all you have to do is take a look at the Japanese Web Novel 82.

From this raw japanese script, i want you to translate the first paragraph of this chapter.

Your objective is translate it to the best of your abilities, take as long as you want. The key is to see how well you can translate your script and how it compares to the one translated by Skuizaan.

If the first time you translate it does not come out like Skuizaan version, go back and translate again. 
Look closely at the japanese words being translated, use different dictionaries, if you feel you have found the right words the you have consider the problem is not the Japanese interpretation, but perhaps your english grammar. 

You can consider this as an exercise, every time you translate a paragraph, compare it. try and discover what went wrong.

Then do it again. 
This is the most important step, the willingness to go over and over your own script, polish, learn and do it all over again. 

If you feel like you cannot do the above or you found yourself giving up. Then perhaps you should just take a break and come back to it.

But if you were like me, who realised it was something i cannot continue or found it not fun at all. 

Then perhaps it's best to leave it to people who will, since i think it was better to master my own language first before i try to master another one. haha.

So COTHER, that is the best feedback and advice i can give you.

Baka-Tsuki can give you the platform to practice, the resources to help you, but the most important part of the effort? Will always end with your commitment. 

I wish you good luck.

Best Regards,
Onizuka-GTO 22:06, 2 August 2014 (CDT)

==Editor==
I really like your ambition. You have my support as a roaming editor. --[[User:Tasear|Tasear]] ([[User talk:Tasear|talk]]) 22:43, 3 August 2014 (CDT)

== Mushoku Tensei Vol.16 ch..01 (WN155) -Request to shift to -Preview- ==

Dear COTHER,

As you can gather from the title, it is the request to shift your script to the -Preview- Page and swap in the the alternative version.

I've noticed that you have cease working on this chapter as well as the editors,i have taken then you have abandoned this script?

If that is indeed the case, we have another version available that is translated completely and therefore will switch your script as a preview.

If you do intent to keep working on this chapter to improve it, just reply to me and i will halt the exchange, however if you have no more interest, you don't have to reply and i will change it after 5 days.

Once again, thank you for helping this project and i hope you had fun learning to translate and i hope you learnt something in the process.

I look forward to seeing your future contribution.

Best Regards,

Onizuka-GTO 21:02, 12 August 2014 (CDT)