Difference between revisions of "User talk:Nutcase"
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| − | I'm still getting my bearings. Who? Where? I dunno. So I'll mutter to myself here. |
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| − | I will leave the fixing of small things on Vols. 1 and 2 as drive-bys on this pass. Too far back. |
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| − | On Vol. 3, I noticed the use of "squeamish" a couple times. This can't be right, in the contexts. The speakers were not on the edge of nausea. I have substituted "wry", i.e "cleverly and often ironically or grimly humorous." This my understanding of Koichi's typical expression. It's also appropriate as the owner's expression in response to Haruhi's suggestions about weird room names. |
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| − | The translation of Vol. 4 is a smooth read with few rough points left to sand off. However, there are a lot of commas at the end of paragraphs...sorting that out may not be my place, so I will set sort of comma issue aside. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. |
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| + | To preserve for ongoing consideration |
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| + | As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST) |
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| − | Hi Nutcase, welcome to Baka-Tsuki and thanks for helping out! |
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| − | Just an FYI: "squeamish" has little to do with nausea. It's more of a tendancy to be near-obsessively concerned with cleanliness and being easily disgusted. If you're familiar with the TV series, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Monk Adrian Monk] would be considered an extremly squeamish individual. Dunno if this is still the right word to use, of course... |
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| − | Anyway, welcome again and if you're ever unsure of something please post to the forums or make a note in the discussion pages! [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 16:48, 10 January 2007 (PST) |
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| + | To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance boils down to this: |
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| + | For reference, here is the particular case Smidge204 helped me with from "Lone Island Syndrome:" |
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| − | Hmmm...I'm not familiar with the series...but in your usage "squeamish" is close to "fastidious." Disgust and nausea are of course connected...a matter of shading, context. |
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"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears." |
"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears." |
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| − | Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent. |
+ | Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent. |
| + | Smidege204: The line in question is "ハルヒの問いに圭一さんは苦笑い" in which "苦笑い" means "bitter smile" - so wryly fits perfectly here :) |
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| − | But hey, reasonable people can disagree. Also we have to factor in the Kyon sarcasm coloration on how he might portray Keiichi's reaction. If we allow for sarcastic misrepresentation, "squeamish" might be correctly incorrect. |
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| − | I appreciate the grounding contact. Thanks |
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| − | In that context, he could genuinely disapprove of the idea of giving the mansion a name. In such a case as this, though, I'd generally refer to the original Japanese and see for myself. I'll take a look later today, and we can discuss it some more. (Wryly does seem more natural, no doubt) EDIT: The line in question is "ハルヒの問いに圭一さんは苦笑い" in which "苦笑い" means "bitter smile" - so wryly fits perfectly here :) |
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| − | I've noticed you change tense a lot. (I watch the "Recent Changes" page and review the changes everyone makes, so don't feel that I'm picking on you or anything :p) Be very careful about tense, since not only does the story frequently involve time travel, but the way the story is told is not consistent. One paragraph may be told in a past-tense narrative while the next is a present-tense narrative. There's a [http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=302 post about it] in the Uniform Format Guidelines forum. |
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| − | As a ''personal'' preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it usign the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems ''really'' off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. [[User:Smidge204|Smidge204]] 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST) |
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| − | "Bitter smile." The "wrys" have it! ;) |
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| + | "Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context. |
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| − | "Bitter smile" is a concept that might have connotations in Japanese that don't map exactly to a particular English word. I can easily see the Japanese meaning stretching from squeamish to wry to self-conscious to actually bitter. Obviously Keiichi-san isn't "bitter" in the narrow sense. |
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| − | I'm aware of the tense issue, and most of what I do is aimed at just getting internal consistency within sentences. There are not infrequent glitches, the sort of thing I end up with my own writing when I fuss with the sentence structure too much. I get to where you don't "see" what's on the page until I come back to it at another time. Also of course translators that aren't native English speakers may very understandably make mistakes with the nuances of "were" and "had". I've certainly noticed the tense complexity that arises particularly in Kyon's narration in some of the time travel situations, and sometimes it takes three reads to sort things out. I do try to be careful, but I've probably made mistakes. If you catch something, I'd appreciate it if you can flag it for me so I can sharpen up my search image, |
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| + | "Squeamish" is actually a good choice as a translator's default as long as it is understood to be a placeholder; it's easy to find and usually so incongruent that it obviously needs to be replaced when somebody gets around to it. The author's intention is going to be particularly nuanced exactly on this sort of point, so a translator may well want to bypass it while doing the heavy lifting part of the translation. One wants to finish framing before breaking out the planes and the sandpaper. |
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| − | Frankly, I'm very pleased that someone such as yourself is surveilling the Recent Changes page, lest I or any other newbie get up too much steam in the wrong direction. |
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| + | This is my view. Since it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, I have acted on this view, examining, with scalpel in hand, all examples of "squeamish." ;) |
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| − | I will start posting regarding substantive word changes so somebody who can check the Japanese can make the call. I'd have preferred to do it that way to begin with, frankly. Now that I know you will gently steer me into the correct venue/format, I am more comfortable. |
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Revision as of 16:33, 15 January 2007
To preserve for ongoing consideration
As a personal preference, if I see something that is "very wrong" I try to correct it using the following methods, in this order: Change word forms (eg adverb<->adjective), Change word order, alter grammar and punctuation, add minor word (it/and/the etc), remove words. If it seems really off then usually there's a forum post about it and a consult with the original Japanese. Just my way of doing it, though. Smidge204 08:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)
To sum up other discussion, I took note of "squeamish" as a word appearing several times in the translation, usually inappropriately in my view. I theorized that it as a "placeholder," reflecting some sort of default interpretation of an underlying Japanese expression with multiple possible meanings. Discussion with Smidge204 on a particular instance boils down to this: For reference, here is the particular case Smidge204 helped me with from "Lone Island Syndrome:"
"Does this mansion have a name?" Haruhi asked, Keiichi-san smiled squeamishly and answered, "Right now we haven't come up with one, if you have any suggestions for the name, I'm all ears."
Nutcase: Why would Keiichi-san be smiling in a "fastidious, easily disgusted way" at this point? Otherwise, he is portrayed as easy-going and tolerant. It's not congruent. "Wryly" is congruent.
Smidege204: The line in question is "ハルヒの問いに圭一さんは苦笑い" in which "苦笑い" means "bitter smile" - so wryly fits perfectly here :)
"Bitter smile" is, on it's face, an expression that invites multiple interpretations depending on context.
"Squeamish" is actually a good choice as a translator's default as long as it is understood to be a placeholder; it's easy to find and usually so incongruent that it obviously needs to be replaced when somebody gets around to it. The author's intention is going to be particularly nuanced exactly on this sort of point, so a translator may well want to bypass it while doing the heavy lifting part of the translation. One wants to finish framing before breaking out the planes and the sandpaper.
This is my view. Since it's easier to get forgiveness than permission, I have acted on this view, examining, with scalpel in hand, all examples of "squeamish." ;)
