Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume9 Prologue

Opening

If you want some help on the first sentence, I'd translate it as such:

"I feel that the method used to feel the change of seasons varies from person to person, but in the case of myself for the past half year, the tendencies of my three colored house cat named Shamisen are some of the easiest clues to understand."

hope that gives you some insight =p really complicated first sentence(and second...) =/ maybe if i'm too far off i'll just quit(posting), but i'd like to try to aid in translation to further my japanese, as opposed to just trying to decipher it without writing anything down =p

the shamisen part is hard because you have to word it correctly or else it becomes too wordy and just doesn't read well. he says "ie de katteiru mikeneko shamisen" which literally translates to "the three colored cat that i'm raising at home named Shamisen", but it's best expressed as 'my three colored house cat named Shamisen' since it expresses the fact that it's his pet and is raised at home. perhaps "my calico house cat named Shamisen" or, "my calico house cat, Shamisen,". i'm not sure how you translators feel about freely adding commas.

--Canthelpit 21:22, 1 April 2007 (PDT)

"Wind"

I fixed a grammar error, but I had to assume it said "winds." That is what it says, right? (I don't have the thing with me, nor do I actually know Japanese) I think scorching is a good word...

--Anonymous 1:29 14 April 2007 (PDT)

I reviewed the edit. I agree that the original was a bit clunky, and there are two ways to fix it:

the winds that blow(s) down from the mountains are still chilly

or

the wind that blows down from the mountains is still chilly

I favor the second option, but that's just me. Smidge204 04:30, 14 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Research Society has burnt his brains

Can someone take another look at the original text for the above sentence? Or think of an alternative English translation for it?

--Shadowfall 09:04, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Reserch Society has waited and seen

--Akiha 21:08, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

That still doesn't make a lot of sense in the context, I'm afraid ._.;

--Shadowfall 00:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

making you wonder if the president of the Computer Research Society has fried his brains

That expression is one commonly used in English.

-- Turbanator - 87.203.187.123 06:00, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Kyon thinks that what the Computer Research Society is displaying is calmer than "The Day of Sagittarius III". I can't express the nuance in English well... In this context, I mean "calm" is less otaku. In Japanese, the nature of otaku isn't liked, so I think that the members of Computer Research Society try to be calm in order to get new members of not only otaku but also one who is a bit interested in the club.

--Akiha 01:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Haha, more mainstream maybe?

--Shadowfall 08:31, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Shadowfall: Sorry, I don't understand the sentence. It means the problem has settled, doesn't it?

--Akiha 00:11, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Face Expression

English: The expression of endlessly smeared all over your face when you are making your speech during today's opening ceremony is not that easy to forget.

Japanese: 始業式の全校朝礼で長々と訓示を述べていた顔をそうそう忘れたりはしないさ。

(when the student pres. is talking to Kyon) the italic part is missing a word or something. I think the translator needs to take a look.

And sorry about all the edits and stuff, I just created an account to help out and am really eager and excited to help this project!

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 14:59, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

To put it simply, the sentence wanted to mean that...

The expression of your face when you are making your speech

Does this make sense? Maybe, the translator thought "all over your face" to be a noun "face" modified by "all over your". On the other hand, you thought "all over your face" to be an adverb.

--Akiha 21:39, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

• lol. Ah proof that Akiha is Japanese! Only a Japanese can break down English with so much technicality, not even I know what your talking about Akiha, and I've been speaking English the day I was born. :/

But from what I think your trying to say is that the phrase is meant to describe the characters emotion on their face and that...er...dammn well i haven't read the script yet, I'll do it when I get off work, but in English It's fine to say "it's all over your face" but it's a abit vague, as it can mean more then one thing. Maybe we need to make more specific? As in terms so that readers will know it meant what...er...Akiha-san is trying to say something along the lines of "he/she made that familiar expression that you knew they wanted to say something"...or not.

Must read the script. :p

Onizuka-gto 22:25, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

I changed it to "The expression smeared over your face during today's opening ceremony while you were making your speech is not that easy to forget" for now.

--Shadowfall 00:46, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks. Then have this problem been solved? I can't judge which of two sentences is better English.

--Akiha 01:07, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

I got it! "When" is the cause of the confusion, isn't it? Although I omit it, I can tell you the reason technically! :D

BTW, Do only Japanese technically understand English? Don't other second language learners do it? I've thought this method is normal..

--Akiha 06:16, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

• Second Language learner certainly learn the technicality of English, but not to the extremes that the Japanese Education system does. European English learner learn only 20-40% of the technicality, the rest is concentrated on the speaking and understanding it. Hong Kong Chinese are more alike to Japanese, they have a very good grasp of Written English and can even type out loads of documents with fluid and dynamic flair, (well all those I've met in my company are like that) but the minute I talk to them in English they falter, the less senior staff I talk to, the worse the spoken English becomes... :p

Onizuka-gto 07:10, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

This is interesting and educational. Thank you.

--Akiha 07:43, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

I think it's OK now. It certainly makes sense in English, that Kyon didn't like the President's general expression while he was giving his speech. I think the only question is if it was indeed the general expression, or a specific expression that Kyon took offence to in the original text.

--Shadowfall 08:31, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

The former. To answer this question, we need to consider the dropped original text in translation, which is "for long time" (in Japanese: "長々と"). After all, the text is

The expression smeared over your face during today's opening ceremony while you were making your speech for long time is not that easy to forget.

Kyon was impatient with the length of the speech. He took offence to pres. through his expression(face). To put it differently, his expression was merely the symbol of pres in this context. Therefore I think the expression in question is the general one, because he normally gave his speech as pres.

--Akiha 09:47, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, that explains the "expression of endlessly" in the original translation then. In that case a better wording to use may be:

It's not that easy to forget the expression that was smeared over your face during the speech you took so long in today's opening ceremony making.

(Shuffling the text around a bit so as not to break the sentence into too many parts). It's still kinda long though.

--Shadowfall 11:32, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Student Council

Even if our treasurer had anything to say, it would be towards the president of your club seated over there.

Shouldn't this be in quotes? It's something the student council president is saying.

--Maian 06:45, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

yes. I reflected it.

--Akiha 06:58, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

and I noticed a blunder too. the vice-president mentioned in the paragraph before this should be treasurer instead.

--Deskoh91 03:03, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Contractions

Just a quick note:

I've noticed that "till" has been used in every instance instead of "until". Please note that the actual contraction of "until" is " 'til", though I believe it would be best to write out "until" as it sounds more proper. In either case, "till" is completely wrong as it is a different word with its own meaning (as in a layer of soil or working on soil, as well as other meanings).

Keep up the great work everyone!

--Shadowfall 13:13, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Thank you Shadowfall for catching my blunder! I'll make sure that doesn't happen again!

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 13:37, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Classes

I'm going over the current translation again very carefully and I came across this:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream are just enough for a class, and thus 2-8 has been decided to be used for such purpose.

I don't have the original work (and can't read any language other than English anyways), so I'm just going to suggest this change:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream were just barely enough for a class, and thus 2-8 had been allocated solely for this purpose.

It seems like Kyon is suggesting that there weren't enough students interested in the science field to group them into a homeroom, so they were spread out to other classes and the room 2-8 was set aside for classroom use only. I just wanted to check so as not to lose the original meaning. I feel like this sentence is trying to indicate a small number and the phrase "just barely enough" gives the sense of there being so few students that major rearrangements were required. "Just enough" doesn't quite seem to convey the same sense of urgency due to low numbers.

Either way, the part immediately after 2-8 should be fixed as I have suggested for verb tense agreement and readability.

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 15:17, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Kyon is saying that there are just enough students to fill up a science class, and 2-8 is then used for this purpose. The original 1-8, that is supposed to be promoted to 2-8, ends up getting split into the seven other classes.

Also, I think there is a mistake in the publication itself (I use the unofficial mainland chinese version). it is mentioned they are split into the other seven classes, but in actual fact Koizumi is in 2-9 means there are more than just 7 classes.

--Deskoh91 03:07, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, okay, I understand now. So I will make it:

I also heard that all the students who decided to study in the science stream were just enough for a class, and thus 2-8 had been allocated solely for this purpose.

This will make everything clear. And also, saying they were spread into the seven other classes is correct, as it is later mentioned that Koizumi pulled some strings to arrange the entirety of class 1-9 to be promoted to 2-9 with no changes whatsoever. Thus, class 2-9 is already filled and anybody who was not in class 1-9 will surely not be allowed into 2-9.

And the time code tag is 4 tildas (~) in a row. The button is the second from the right at the top of the editing pane.

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 17:55, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

The conclusion are equal to the original.

I'm not sure, but I think class 1-9 and 2-9 is a elite class and that this is metioned in the last story of vol.8... Later, I'll check the source.

I agree with deskoh91. We should use the forum of Baka-tsuki or topic-per-page style in talk pages. It is very annoying for me to get the grasp of each topic and follow updates in this chaos.

The proper forum

Or

To open a new topic in a new page on wiki, just write this on a talk page.

[[tipic name]]

And follow the new created link. Hereby, everyone who wants do subscribe the topic can add the page to their watchlist to check update easily.

Now, we can get a benefit from a wiki or phpbb forum, which are cool web applications! I recommend to use the phpbb forum bacause it is created for discussion purpose. It just matches our demand. Technically, there is a few potential problems in using wiki as a discussion place in topic-per-page style.

--Akiha 00:11, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

The source mentioned in the my last post, is quoted from Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume8_Wandering_Shadow.

Class 1-9 was a class for those interested in the Science and Mathematics Field, so it was naturally comprised of sharp-witted know-it-alls who did nothing but study.

九組というのは特別進学理数コースであり、当然の次第として頭のいい野郎ばかりの集まり

I think 1-9 (or 2-9) itself is an exclusive class from the Japanese text.

--Akiha 09:23, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

Parody?

The screen continued playing the images, calling it an imitation is a nicer way to put it, in fact it is just going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round. 

I believe it should go more like this:

The screen continued playing the images, but calling it a parody is a nicer way to put it as it is simply going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round. 

For the description that follows is clearly talking about scenes from Star Wars and Superman. I believe parody would be the more appropriate term. Also, I think the last part of this sentence needs to be looked at again by a translator. I'm not sure if Kyon is talking about the places from the last movie, or if he is talking about places from the parodied films.

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 10:57, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Good word suggestion. Go with it.

--Deskoh91 03:07, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Will do!

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 17:57, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Although I understand the structure of this, I don't tell the meaning of this. I think there is some idioms.

it is simply going back to the same places and putting everyone in this time round.

I translated the part from the original.

there are tons of scenes from (famous) titles in it.

"famous" is a free translation, because usually, famous titles are referred in parody, for example Star Wars :)

--Akiha 06:47, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

I figured that that was what this sentence was trying to get at. That is why the last part about going to the same places didn't make sense to me. So how about

The screen continued to play the images, but calling it a parody is a better way to phrase it as there are tons of scenes from famous titles with the original actors replaced by characters from Haruhi's previous movie.

That's my suggestion. I replaced "nicer" with "better" since "nicer" seems to give the connotation that Kyon is trying to defend or support the trailer, when that is clearly the last thing he would ever do. Also, "better" just seems to fit the sentence here anyway. I also rephrased the last part to make it clear according to what akiha said. I'll wait for approval from Deskoh91 or another translator before making this change in the actual prologue.

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 07:56, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Backing?

Why do you keep looking at me? Unfortunately, even if I have backing similar to those of Asahina and Nagato, it would still not be as advanced as understanding what one is trying to convey with just a look from a guy, would it?

This sentence could use retranslation. It seems to me like its talking about the ability Kyon has to accurately read Yuki and Mikuru's expressions, and how this naturally wouldn't work on Itsuki due to him being male. Would that be accurate?

--Shadowfall 13:11, 22 April 2007 (PDT)

What does "backing" mean? a support or help? If so, "backing" means the orgnization in the future in case of Asahina, besides it means the awesome presence in the universe in case of Nagato. But the meaing doesn't match to the original part in meaning. Anyway, I can't understand the meaning of the quoted text well.

This is the gist of the part from original.

Stop looking at me. I'm willingly looked at by Asahina and Nagato, but I'm not willingly looked at by male such as you.

If a man aren't gay, is it by far more exciting that cute girls are looking at him siginificantly than men does? Yes, it is for me, especially when Haruhi does. :)

Here is my tranlation. Notice that it is very faithful to the original, hereby, roundabout. Edit this as you think proper in terms of English and consistency with other parts.

Why do you cast me a subtle glance? I can accept a eye contact from Asahina and Nagato, being aware of its implication, but unfortunately, the ability isn't effective to one from males like you.

--Akiha 11:13, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

How about:

Why do you cast me such a subtle glance? Eye contact from Asahina or Nagato is perfectly acceptable due to the implications behind such actions, but unfortunately the feeling is lost when the stare originates from a guy like you.

That's my suggestion.

--Haruhi's loyal subordinate 18:45, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

That makes a lot more sense than the original. Thanks, I made the change.

--Shadowfall 11:38, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

A mistranslation of a line of The Student Council President

The Student Council president says.

English

“And subduing those giants in the sealed reality created by the girl whose mind is filled with all sorts of ideas would be your job.”

Japanese

「あの脳内花畑女の首紐をつけておくのは、キミたちの役目だ」

The English line shows that he knows of Avatars in the sealed reality, but the Japanese counterpart doesn't. I haven't read all of Haruhi series up to this point, I have a poor memory, and I'm lazy... So, I can't judge whether the English line is consistent with the previous volumes. Anyway, the Original line doesn't mention this here. He just tells that he wants members of SOS Brigade to watch the behavior of Haruhi in school to prevent her from causing trouble for him. Because of the ignorance of the extraordinary situation around Haruhi, he does only mention school-event-related her behavior. Also I don't feel any implication of indication of Avatars from the Japanese line, I guess. Regarding these, I suggest to correct this line.

--Akiha 04:25, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

あの脳内花畑女の首紐をつけておくのは、キミたちの役目だ。

*脳内 【のうない】 intracerebral (adj); intracranial (adj); intracranially (adv) (n); LS

*花畑 【はなばたけ】 (n) flower garden; flower bed; ED

*女 【おんな; じょ】 (おんな) (n) woman; (じょ) (n) woman; girl; daughter; SP

*首 【くび; しゅ】 (くび) (n) neck; (しゅ) (n,n-suf) counter for songs and poems; SP

*紐 【ひも】 (n) (1) string; cord; (2) man who is financially dependent on a woman (such as a gigolo or, in the case of a prostitute, a pimp); pimp; (P); EP

*役目 【やくめ】 (n) duty; business; role; (P); EP

"Pimp" Haha! Anyway... this is a poor man's attempt at a translation.

-

"あの" is probably just a sound, like starting a sentance with "Uh..." in English.

"脳内花畑" = Flower garden in the mind?

"女の首" = Neck of a woman/girl

"紐" = Leash (a type of cord or string assiciated with "neck")

-

So perhaps it translates to something like: "As for keeping a leash on that girl's flowering mind, that's your job." ? I'm sure I'm missing a few things...

--Smidge204 05:22, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

I think because of two idiomatic wordings used in the Japanese, the mistranslation happened. No wonder Smidge204's translation isn't correct. Here is an explanation.

structure

[[[あの[[脳内花畑]女]]の首紐]をつけておく]のは、キミたちの役目だ

simple translation

As for watching the behavior of Haruhi in school, that's your job.

gist

He wants members of SOS Brigade to watch the behavior of Haruhi in school to prevent causing trouble for him.

1. 脳内花畑(literally: flower garden in the mind)
   • In Japanese, someone who has flower garden in the mind is thought to be crazy, insane, nonsense, etc. We think they are seeing an illusion that they play in the flower garden, regressing to childish behavior. So, meaning "that girl who has flower garden in the mind", "あの[[脳内花畑]女]]" is referring to Haruhi in a very offensive and rude manner.
2. 首紐をつけておく(literally: to keep a leash on someone's neck)
   • If you have a dog, you keep it on a leash to prevent running away. When that is applied to a person in Japanese, that meaning is to watch him/her to prevent doing something bad. The wording has a forcible feeling, because of treating he/she as an animal.

Change my simple translation into more idiomatic one in English!

--Akiha 19:43, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Ah, so it's an idiom. "Keeping a leash on someone" is also an idiom in English, and it means the same thing. So, fixing the part about the flower garden:

"As for keeping a leash on that psychopathic girl, that's your job."

To make it sound more natural, I would remove the comma...

"Your job is to keep a leash on that psychopathic girl."

This also works in the context, since the president is interrupting and (rudely) correcting Koizumi.

Smidge204 03:56, 2 May 2007 (PDT)