Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume7 Chapter 4

Erm, yeah I removed the clear nonsense added by 201. whatever. Now you have taken it back to Bakafish's first update - he had done a second with a few more line in. When I put in "vandalism" I mean fixing it, not carrying it out - please compare versions. - 81.101.40.82 16:46, 14 January 2007 (PST)

Cat scene

I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. Then I lifted Shamisen from my sister's wrist and shifted him down off my bed. Being the bothersome cat he is, he hmphed and jumped right back onto my bed.

So then I changed, my sister standing by the side there pinching Shamisen's furry cheeks. He immediately resisted and started to scamper away with a 'pata pata', only to have two hands latch onto his tail. So, he let out a 'ぐふにゃあ' and promptly escaped by running out of my room, my sister following him. Since they started this noise right in the morning, I was awake in no time at all.

As I walked out of my room and started to wash my face, I saw my sister crooning 'Kitty scarf~' while letting Shamisen sit on the back of her neck. Shamisen was hanging on to my sister's woolen sweater, trying to defy her as best he could. Accordingly, I decided to ignore them calmly.

I suggest the following:

I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. Then I lifted Shamisen from my sister's wrist and shifted him down off my bed. Being the bothersome cat he is, he 'hmphed' and jumped right back onto my bed.

So then I changed, my sister standing by the side there pinching Shamisen's furry cheeks. He immediately resisted and started to scamper away with a 'pata pata', only to have two hands latch onto his tail. So, he let out a complaining 'gnnyaa!' and promptly escaped by running out of my room, my sister in pursuit. Since they started this noise first thing in the morning, I was awake in no time at all.

As I walked out of my room and started to wash my face, I saw my sister crooning 'Kitty scarf~' while draping Shamisen on the back of her neck. Shamisen was hanging on to my sister's woolen sweater, trying to defy her as best he could. Accordingly, I decided to ignore them calmly.

--Nutcase 06:02, 13 February 2007 (PST)

If all you did was spell out the sound effect, I don't see why you needed to post this! :) Smidge204 12:38, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Well okay. There are some other tweaks in there based on how I visualize the action. I characterize the sound as complaining, for example. But it's inconsequential stuff for sure, and probably uncontroversial. Without further comment, I'll make the change and delete this exchange in a while.--Nutcase 15:00, 13 February 2007 (PST)

"Against the sun."

As she said this, Haruhi looked like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid that ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. After entering the month of February, I had been fooled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

How should we interpret this? Is this Haruhi with an expression so dark that it defeats the sun, so arrogant as to trample the gods or (most likely in my view) so bright it outshines the sun? Kyon's response is hard to fit on the dark or arrogant interpretation. On the bright interpretation I'd suggest:

As she said this, Haruhi glowed like she fought against the sun, and won. I hid away my own ‘child-that-came-out-to-play’ smile, I’ll use it later if I remember to, is what I wanted to say, but I chose not to.

Come to think of it, this is Haruhi’s spirit-filled face. Since entering the month of February, I had been lulled by her trickery. I don’t know why I feel like I was deceived.

--Nutcase 10:02, 13 February 2007 (PST)

I think this is an extension of an earlier passage where Kyon describes a "battle" between the sun and the wind:

One side of my head was taking a bath in something that seemed like the North Wind in all its glory doing battle with the sun, so I hid my face in my scarf and walked forwards.

Smidge204 11:06, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Interesting take, that hadn't occurred to me. So if we take Haruhi as cold and blustery...well, that actually fits with the sharp banter at least as well, I could go with that. The more I consider, the more I like it. So the first line could become:

As she said this, Haruhi looked like the North Wind had won out against the sun.

Or am I reaching for too much explicitness?

As an aside, this may parallel an earlier point of discussion about, "then who's the tomcat," where I ultimately concluded that the meaning was tied to something earlier in the scene. I need to open up my contextual frame for deciphering these things.--Nutcase 15:14, 13 February 2007 (PST)

Inchworm tense frame

Or, "I'll be in the moment in a moment."

I find a strict present tense construction for Kyon's narration to be very unnatural and awkward-sounding to my mind's ear. Mulling this over, I concluded that my own internal mental discourse tends to move like an inchworm, alternating between present tense framing and immediate past framing. Consider this version of the opening scene:

The second morning, I was awakened by my little sister who came to shut off my alarm. (RP=recent past)

It's noisy, isnt it Shami? (P=present)

My sister picked up a curled-up Shamisen, hugging him close, and then put that pile of fur on my nose, asking,

"It's breakfast~~. Are you gonna eat~?" (RP to P)

This voice, which belongs to a tone-deaf person who constantly practices singing in order to get good at it, irritates my brain more than the alarm did. (P)

"I'm eating."

I brushed away the claws my sister was playing with and picked myself up. (RP)

I'm going to proceed on this basis for the moment.--Nutcase 09:35, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Don't forget that the entire story is in past narrative, so it's common for tense to jump about especially when dialog is concerned. Smidge204 10:03, 14 February 2007 (PST)

True. The time framing has been set up by the author in the interest of playfulness rather than ease of understanding and ease of translation - but it's not perversely complicated. The editing guidelines suggest defaulting to both present and past tenses, and they're both "right." Maybe this will be a way to express the underlying "truth" that's a little easier to use.--Nutcase 13:21, 14 February 2007 (PST)

If they only sit...

I think Asahina-san already knows there’s another her in this time. If she really does know, I should go talk to her about it. Did I come here just to have that chat with her? That would be convenient. I’ve already got Tsuruya-san to help me, I don’t need you to help with this anymore, Koizumi. So, I don’t think I’ll tell him anything. Humans, if they only sit on their asses, will not come up with any good ideas. If you’re always hesitating and stopping, you might as well just say it clearly.

This passage is hard to follow as is.I've already messed with it some, figuring the "you to help" as Koizumi, rather than Mikuru. What follows is my best guess about the author's intent, but if someone might care to check it against the original...

I think Asahina-san already knows there’s another her in this time. If she really does know, I should go talk to her about it. Did I come here just to have that chat with her? That would be convenient. I’ve already got Tsuruya-san to help me, I don’t need you to help with this anymore, Koizumi. So, I don’t think I’ll tell him anything. Humans, if they aren't decisive, will not come up with any good ideas. If you’re always hesitating and stopping, you might as well just decide it clearly.

--Nutcase 19:04, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Being decisive is useless if you don't get up and do it. The action is more important, and that leaves room for impulsive behavior too. Smidge204 03:38, 15 February 2007 (PST)