Talk:Suzumiya Haruhi:Volume1 Chapter5

Original text

Page 161

第五章

週明け、そろそろ梅雨を感じさせる湿気を感じながら登校すると着いた頃には今までにも増 して汗みずくになった。誰かこの坂道にエスカレータを付けるという公約を掲げて選挙に出る 奴はいないものか。将来選挙を得たときにそいつに投票してやってもいい。

教室で下敷きを団扇代わりにして首元から風を送り込んでいたら、珍しく始業の鐘ギリギリ にハルヒが入ってきた。

どすりと鞄を机に投出し、

「あたしも扇いでよ」

「自分でやれ」

ハルヒは二日前に駅前で別れたときまったく変化のない仏頂面で唇を突き出していた。最 近マツな顏になったと思っていたのに、また元に戻っちまった。

「あのさ、涼宮。お前『しあわせの青い鳥』って話知ってるか？」

「それが何？」

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「いや、まあ何でもないんだけどな」

「じゃあ訊いてくんな」

ハルヒは斜め上を睨み、俺は前を向き、岡部教師がやって来てホームルームが始まった。

この日の授業中、不機嫌オーラを八方に放射するハルヒのダウナーな気配がずっと俺の背中にプレッシャーを与えていた、いや、今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった。

山火事をいち早く察知した野ネズミのように、俺は部室棟へと退避する。

部室で長門が読書する姿は今やデフオォルトの風景であり、もはやこの部屋と切り離せない固定の置物のようでもあった。

だから俺は、一足先に部室に来ていた古泉一樹にこのように言った。

「お前も俺に涼宮のことで何か話はあるんじゃないのか？」

この場には三人しかいない。ハルヒは今週が掃除当番だし朝比奈さんはまた来ていない。

「おや、お前も、と言うからにはすでにお二方からアプローチを受けているようですね」

古泉は、昨日図書館から借り出した本に顔を埋めている長門を一瞥する。すべてを知ってるみたいな訳知り口調が気に入らない。

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「場所を変えましょう。涼宮さん出くわすとマズイですから」

古泉が俺を伴って訪れた先は食堂の屋外テーブルだった。途中で自販機のコーヒーを買って俺に手渡し、丸いテーブルに男二人でつくのもアレだけども、この際仕方がない。

「どこまでご存じですか？」

「涼宮がただ者ではないってことくらいか」

「それなら話は簡単です。その通りなのでね」

それは何かの冗談なのか？　ＳＯＳ団に揃った三人が三人とも涼宮を人間じゃないみたいなことを言い出すとは、地球温暖化のせいで熱気にあてられてるんじゃねえのか。

「まずお前の正体から聞こうか」

宇宙人と未来人には心当たりがあるから、

「実は超能力者でして、などと言うんじゃないだろうな」

「先に言わないで欲しいな」

Translation notes

The Blue Bird of Happiness

First published in 1908 as L'Oiseau bleu, this is a children's play by Belgian poet, playwright and Nobel laureate Maurice Polydore-Marie-Bernard Maeterlinck (1862-1949). Like Tanigawa Nagaru, Maeterlinck first studied law, then turned to literature.

The play contains several elements that are congruent with the story of Suzumiya Haruhi and her merry friends. In the play, two children, a boy and a girl, are sent forth by a fairy, to seek the mystical Blue Bird of Happiness. On their journey, they visit numerous locales symbolic of human thought and emotion, including the Land of Memory, the Palace of Night and the Kingdom of the Future (note how these mirror Haruhi's companions). The children's quest is futile, but returning home, they find that the Blue Bird has been in the cage all along. The moral is that happiness can be found at home, and that the journey is as important as the goal.

No doubt Tanigawa-sensei is making an oblique point about the nature of his story. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

--Freak Of Nature

Haruhi's downer

Yes, it does, in fact, say "downer" in the original text: ハルヒのダウナー (Haruhi no DAUNAA)

--Freak Of Nature

"the chime at the end of the day sounded like the peal of Heaven"

"the chime at the end of the day sounded like the peal of Heaven" is my best attempt to render 今日ほど終業のチャイムが福音に聞こえた日はなかった into a form that flows well in English.

--Freak Of Nature

"It wasn't like blaming global warming for the heat, was it?"

This is my attempt to render the second clause of that very long sentence into English: 地球温暖化のせいで熱気にあてられてるんじゃねえのか (chikyuuondanka no sei de nekki ni aterareterun ja nee no ka)

Unfortunately, I don't think it sounds very good. If someone can come up with a better way to express it, I'd be very happy.

--Freak Of Nature

The more i read that sentence the more im confused.

what is it trying to imply? That similarities of globalwarming to the situation is that globalwarming is NOT the reason for the heat,implying that its just simply Bollocks, B.S, rubbish, etc, not true. or that its a sarcastic poke at the information people saying that the raising heat isn't responsible due to global warming, Therefore implying that Haruhi non-human-ness is an unspoken obvious?

Or im i just getting more confused? ^^;

Onizuka-gto 07:50, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

oh man i get it! sorry this been really bugging me. :/

Kyon trying to imply that it's not like a controvesion debate, such as global warming. so in that context you could say:

"It wasn't like i was stating the global warming/hot weather controversive, was I?"

I think that sounds much better!

Onizuka-gto 17:27, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

Translation Issues

General

EDIT: And meanwhile Kinny fixes some of the issues. Oh well, the fact that they got fixed is what matters I guess, it's just that it means I wasted my time doing this.

Just pointing out some things that definitely aren't mere editing issues. There are many more spots where I question the way you've put it in English, but atleast those more or less agree with what was said in the novel.

Correction sentences will be fairly literal. They're mostly meant to give you an idea about what you got wrong.

--Cruzz 09:31, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Hello Cruzz

nice to see you helping out, dispite your decline of joining this project (^o^)/

on the other hand you seem to ruffle some of our translators feathers.

^^;

While we have to generally agree with Kinny's points as he has mentioned in the Animesuki novel thread, please continue to help us.

Perhaps you can inform us in the talk page in the future, or even on the [format_guide|Unified Format Guideline] discussion page?

Unfortunately as Thelastguardian mentioned, we must inform him or all major translation contributions before hand.

thanks!

Onizuka-gto 10:14, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Shrug, I just don't have any interest in promising to do anything, doesn't mean I won't try to meddle with the project if I find the time. As for ruffling feathers, that's more or less a necessary evil.

I'm not planning on directly editing any of the translations, I'll just post my comments on the respective talk pages. Do I need to get a special permission to do that?

--Cruzz 10:43, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

My feathers don't ruffle easily, and they're not ruffled now. As for your corrections, I agree with some of them. I don't claim perfection. However, I question the correctness of all your corrections -- specifically, the global warming remark, which I believe you've gotten wrong.

Kinny's edits and your remarks have also moved a couple of the sentences away from what is actually said. Specifically, the passage that now reads (after your correction and Kinny's edit):

All of the other three members of the SOS Brigade have told me that Suzumiya wasn't ordinary. Has global warming heated their brains so much that they short-circuited?

In the book, clearly says that Suzumiya "isn't human", 人間じゃない -- not that she "wasn't ordinary". It is my opinion that the passage out to read:

All of the other three members of the SOS Brigade have told me that Suzumiya isn't human.

The whole global warming sentence is a mess, but I can't really see any good reason not to let Kinny's version stand, since it more or less projects the same message as the other versions -- that is, that Kyon questions the sanity of all three other ordinary members of the SOS-dan. So let's leave it at that.

--Freak Of Nature 13:13, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Kinny's version has nothing to do with mine, he actually posted his while I was writing this stuff I think. You might also notice that my version also said she wasn't human. As far as I can see there's not much need for interpretation in these sentences.

--Cruzz 13:41, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Haruhi, whom I'd parted with

ハルヒは二日前に駅前で別れたときまったく変化のない仏頂面で唇を突き出していた。最近マツな顏になったと思っていたのに、また元に戻っちまった。

×Haruhi, whom I'd parted with in front of the station, two days previously, twisted her face into a sour look, pouting. Lately, she'd been making this face a lot, and I was still waiting for it to turn back.

○Haruhi twisted her face into a sour look just like the one she had when I parted with her in front of the station two days ago. I had been thinking that lately she had been making more preferrable faces, but now she was back to the way she had been before that again.

Haruhi gave me a sideways scowl....

ハルヒは斜め上を睨み、俺は前を向き、岡部教師がやって来てホームルームが始まった。

×Haruhi gave me a sideways scowl (I used to be suitable), then Okabe-sensei arrived and homeroom class started.

○Haruhi started glaring at [a point at] an upward angle , I faced forwards, then Okabe-sensei arrived and homeroom class started.

Thus, as I have described, ...

だから俺は、一足先に部室に来ていた古泉一樹にこのように言った。

×Thus, as I have described, I arrive one step ahead of Koizumi Itsuki.

○So I said this to Koizumi Itsuki who had arrived in the room a step ahead of me.

Oh, you too? You're the second ...

「おや、お前も、と言うからにはすでにお二方からアプローチを受けているようですね」

×"Oh, you too? You're the second person to approach me about that, you know."

○"Oh, seeing as you're saying "you too", I guess you were already approached by the other two."

Koizumi and I went to the cafeteria,...

古泉が俺を伴って訪れた先は食堂の屋外テーブルだった。途中で自販機のコーヒーを買って俺に手渡し、丸いテーブルに男二人でつくのもアレだけども、この際仕方がない。

×Koizumi and I went to the cafeteria, where we found a table outside. Buying coffee at the vending machine midway, we took it with us to the round table, just two guys sitting together, nothing unusual.

○The place Koizumi took me was one of the outdoor tables of the cafeteria. He bought a coffee from a vending machine on the way there and handed it to me. Two guys sitting at a round table like this is what it is, but it can't be helped in this situation.

Suzumiya is no ordinary person,...

「涼宮がただ者ではないってことくらいか」 「それなら話は簡単です。その通りなのでね」

×"Suzumiya is no ordinary person, is that about it?"

×"If you want to put it that simply. That's exactly right."

○"Enough to know that Suzumiya is no ordinary person."

○"In that case, explaining will be easy. That's exactly right you see."

Was this some kind of joke?...

それは何かの冗談なのか？　ＳＯＳ団に揃った三人が三人とも涼宮を人間じゃないみたいなことを言い出すとは、地球温暖化のせいで熱気にあてられてるんじゃねえのか。

×Was this some kind of joke? So far, all three of the other three members of the SOS Brigade had suggested that Suzumiya wasn't human. It wasn't like blaming global warming for the heat, was it?

○"Is this some kind of joke? All three of the SOS-dan members suggesting stuff like Suzumiya not being human, aren't you just suffering from a fever caused by global warming?" /(aren't you just feverish because of global warming)

I'd really rather you didn't repeat what you just said.

「先に言わないで欲しいな」

×"I'd really rather you didn't repeat what you just said."

○"I'd appreciate it if you didn't say it before me"

Haruhi's Self-Introduction

Specifically: If there are any aliens, time travellers, out-of-worlders and espers, come look for me! is different from thelastguardian's version in Chapter 1: If anyone here is an alien, from the future, from a different dimension, or an esper, then come find me! That is all.

As this phrase is such an important one, we should probably agree upon a translation that fits with how we describe Yuki, Mikuru and Itsuki in the other chapters too: Alien, Time Traveller and Esper? Should out-of-worlders be put as "Dimension Hoppers" or "Sliders" while we're at it?

--Psieye 18:59, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

mmm...well in the official SHnY wiki article they state "sliders" as well ,as it seems to be a generally accepted word for dimensional traveller.

Come to think of it ,we got aliens, espers and time travellers....does this mean theres gonna be a slider too? (O_o)?

But yeah, i think in the general terms, yuki should be referred to as the "alien", Mikuru as the Time Traveller, as for Itsuki....mmm...tricky, i would personally go for esper as its been mentioned here, and it's a easy route for continuality.

Onizuka-gto 20:29, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

Ok, then I guess we'll use "Sliders" and go change the above phrase in both Ch 1 and 5. I'll do it in a bit if someone doesn't do it first.

--Psieye 20:46, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

"Consortium" -> ?

How about "Brotherhood?" instead? sounds like a smaller group, and not like some multinational government-like group.

Edit: or even "fellowship"

Onizuka-gto 10:47, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Well, they use a weird term... 機関 literally means "organ, mechanism, facility, engine". I don't know about that... "Consortium" seems to miss the tone of the word. Another translation used by the fansubbers of the anime is "Organization", which is better, but still off.

I'm going to go off on a tangent and suggest a different term. One that gibes well with the idea that Tanigawa-sensei is a science fiction fan. I think the term he's trying to use is one that was borrowed from Cordwainer Smith, and that the word ought to be: "Instrumentality".

I'm not going to make an edit of the entire chapter, because this obviously needs to be discussed beforehand -- but that's my opinion.

--Freak Of Nature 13:28, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

"noted, guess we should get this out the way as soon as possible but with some discussion before hand.

after having it clarified, i propose another term for it.

"Agent"

i.e. I'am part of the "Agent". sounds quite good, if i say so myself.

Onizuka-gto 14:45, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm. Well, okay, I guess that works -- but then it should be "The Agency", as "Agent" implies an individual.

One problem I see with this is that "The Agency" is a universally recognised euphemism for the C.I.A.

--Freak Of Nature 14:47, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

oh...really?

i guess thats a US thing, we have no such thing in the backwards Brit isles.

how about The "System"? ..."Implement" or the "Operation"?

mmm...kinda like the "Operation" ...... you can say it in oublic and people would think your either a doctor or some sort of.....doctor. lol

Onizuka-gto 15:05, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

My vote is still for "The Instrumentality". Partly because it fits the mechanistic tone of teh original word 機関, and partly because it's such an obvious reference to a classic science fiction master, Cordwainer Smith. I'm convinced that Tanigawa-sensei is making a deliberate literary allusion, just as he has done elsewhere in the book (with "The Fall of Hyperion" and with "The Blue Bird of Happiness").

--Freak Of Nature 15:18, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

mmm...i have no idea why i don't like that word, it just...doesn't sound right.

personally we could of called it the "council" or even the "carbinet", but they have the ring of a government sponsored large group.

Oh well, i just went round in circles just because I don't like that word, so i'll throw my last alternative and leave it at that for others to decide,

"The Encephalon" which means brain, the centre of knowledge, part of the whole. sorta mechanical thing as well.

Onizuka-gto 15:40, 23 April 2006 (PDT)

Okay, now, I personally like "The Encephalon". It's cool in a geeky sort of way, and it's the sort of thing that I'd name my own secret society, if I had one. And we'd have cool black robes and scantily-attired handmaidens and all that jazz, and a plan to rule the world. And a secret handshake, and decoder rings. And they would rue the day they took us lightly! Muahahahahahhhh!

But... it just doesn't sound right for Koizumi's group's name. Sorry.

--Freak Of Nature 16:52, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

ok...so we are back to square one.

dammn this..this..suxs..... :/

ok.. how about the "Ministry" which means One that serves as a means; an instrumentality.

or "Puissance" which means power, might.

"Ministry" actually sounds alright, it gives abit of a religous group, but that's ok, as essential thats what they are in regard to Haruhi.

But the word "Puissance" does give it the same shadowry image, on the same level as Illuminati.

I just realise why i don't like your word, its too long, it has whatch-call-it, five thingys. i.e. in, stru, ment, ta, li, ty. five phonic bits.

while i preferr one that is around four or less. i.e. Mi, ni, stry or pu, i, sance.

Onizuka-gto 17:46, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

Six syllables, yes. I know, but on the other hand, there is a certain rolling sonorousness to it.

In-stru-men-TA-li-ty.

But I'm serious about my conviction that Tanigawa-sensei is making a literary allusion. I am certain that he's referencing Cordwainer Smith's classic SF stories. It would be perfectly in keeping with the obvious fact that the series, at least to begin with, is an elaborate SF fanfic.

If I'm voted down on this, so it goes -- but I'm still convinced this is how it is.

Brainstorming some possible alternatives: "The Complex", "The Structure"... meh.

--Freak Of Nature 18:05, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, out of the possibilities listed above "Instrumentality" does sound best I think, given we need a mechanical feel to it that also serves as a reference. Make sure to mark this word with a "translator's note/reference" just to point out the connection to Cordwainer Smith's work. Besides, for the odd case where such a long word might sound awkward, we can always refer to it as "Itsuki's group/affiliation" (inserting whatever pronoun is appropriate) though I can't immediately think of such odd cases.

Btw, am I correct in interpreting that, while there are only ~10 Espers in Itsuki's group, that there's likely a bunch of ordinary people too who deal with the Administration and stuff?

--Psieye 18:21, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

gaaah. psieye. grrr.

well he says 10 members, that was my impression.

But if that does not include other personals, part of the group who has no powers, then calling it the organisation,"council" even the "agency" or the one original would be more accurate.

I hate waiting for votes, three voters don't count. need more people.

p

GTO-Kun 18:32, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

There's nothing weird about 機関. It is a very common word used for decision making bodies and organizations that were created for the fulfilment of specific goals. The suggestions here are the ones that are weird if you ask me. They're also fairly creative, but the original word itself doesn't really imply these sort of things.

I'd just go with a simple and widely accepted translation. "Organization", "Agency", "Council" (in rough order of preference).

--Cruzz 21:28, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

sheesh. i've done so many backpeddling i might as well just run backwards or something, but anyway, after giving it a run about in my head. "Council" doesn't have the same ring, and neither does "Agency". Which gets me back to square one. dammit.

But Cruzz has a point, it's really just a simple word, but we all trying to find some deeper meaning into it. After all this, i'm beginning to think its better we just left it as it is. But i still don't like "instrumentality". heh.

But i can go with "complex" or even "Manifold" or..ok. i'll stop. just the first one. really. no really. unless you like the other one? arrgh. Someone vote before i change my mind.

Onizuka-gto 22:14, 24 April 2006 (PDT)

27th April, Deadline for this Debate to be concluded

ok. i hate to say this, but i'm gonna give this one more day, that is until it's the 27th, i don't want this to drag on, so thats the deadline for any other suggestion or aye/nay votes. After that we count the votes, and leave it at that. Which means though I loath to say it, if no one else put another suggestion or nay votes. FoN's "instrumentality" gets the spot. dammit. someone, anyone. help. \(;_;)/

Onizuka-gto 21:12, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

Let me make it easier for you: Although I favour "The Intrumentality", I think "The Organization" ought to be our compromise. I have a feeling it is the option that best suits everybody's idea, and which stays closest to the original.

If anyone ever has the chance to find out from Tanigawa-sensei, directly or indirectly, whether the name was (as I think) intended as a nod to Cordwainer Smith's "Instrumentality of Man", I want to know. But for now, I think "The Organization" is the phrase to stick with.

(I kind of liked "The Encephalon", though -- it would look great on a business card: "F. On, Supreme Inquisitor, The Encephalon". Groovy...)

--Freak Of Nature 01:24, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, then how about this: use "The Organisation" as our offical term throughout the text, but leave a footnote/reference note pointing to the "Translator's Notes/References" section (wherever they'll be) where we mention our thought of "Instrumentality" and the rest of FON's posts above. It's indeed nice to make note of references but the English equivalent seems slightly unwieldly to be used in 'everyday field talk'.

Heck, it may even be that the group's name is something different and more elegant, but because it's a nuisance to say it in full each time the field agents simply refer it as The Organisation - much easier for other people (read: Kyon) to understand too.

--Psieye 03:31, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

It's really quite confusing if you have to use "The Organization" in lines like "So this organization of yours, 'the Organization', what does it do?" This creates unnecessary repetition, which was why I used 'Consortium'. Because in the original text, "organization" is "souseki" while "kikan" is Koizumi's group.

As for the other alternatives, while "Instrumentality" sounds long and bulky, with a whopping six syllables, it's certainly easier for the reader to understand what it is than "Encephalon". Because when I read "kikan", I knew what it meant right away.

--Kinny Riddle 22:26, 26 April 2006 (HKT)

I can go with organisation, but i can see your point Kinny, but in that case you mentioned all you have to do is change the words, i.e.

"So this group of yours, 'the Organization', what does it do?"

like so.

oh i like the footnote thing too, just link it to the format style guideline on the correct terms, and add a nte under it or something. saves adding the same footnote to each individual chapters.

Onizuka-gto 08:58, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

"Kikan Kakei Keizai Kenkyu" = The Institute for Research on Household Economics... So "Institute" ?? my 2 cents...

At the moment, its on "organisation"

But "Institutes" not that bad.....

it does sound better then "organisation"

Onizuka-gto 11:51, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

Nah, I still prefer Organisation to Institute - the latter doesn't quite sound right and I get the impression it's not so Global from such a word. I can go with it, but my vote's still on Organisation.

And of course, the above line can be changed to something like "So this group/association of yours, The Organization, what does it do?"

--Psieye 13:17, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

Hi, newcomer here giving my two cents:

How about the word "order"? "Order" carries a connotation of covertness and "cultishness", which might be what we're looking for here. It implies that the group exists for a special purpose -- that they're mere instruments or disciples serving a greater cause.

The thing I don't like about "order" though is that it also carries religious undertones.

Synecdoche 14:55, 26 April 2006 (PDT)