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| ==Complete Log of the Meeting==
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| {| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"
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| ! Complete Log of the Saturday Session
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| |-
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| <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap;
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| <nowiki>
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| [...]
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| [09:58am] Cloudii: If you’re here for the meeting, check out this wiki page (and the google doc) https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:April232016
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| [09:58am] Kira0802: Aren't we like 15:00 UTC now?
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| [09:59am] Joay: closer to 1400 ...
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| [09:59am] Kira0802: ...
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| [09:59am] Altux: night 22.00 here
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| [09:59am] Kira0802: I thought I was 45 minutes late...
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| [09:59am] Teh_ping: ....
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| [09:59am] Cloudii: Alrightie, let’s get started
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| [09:59am] Teh_ping: Anyway, saw the agenda beforehand
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| [09:59am] Kira0802: I blame daylight saving
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| [09:59am] Kira0802: Go ahead
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| [09:59am] Cloudii: Let’s start with election rules
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| [10:00am] kiryuu joined the chat room.
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: Any opinion on the eligibility of candidates
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: for the elections that start on May 1st
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| [10:00am] Kira0802: ?
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| [10:00am] Joay: just two questions
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: Any Wiki user that fulfills any one of the following criteria is eligible:
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: Wiki user is in either the translator, editor, or supervisor usergroups
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: Wiki user has made 500 or more contributions to Baka-Tsuki and has been a registered member for six months or greater
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| [10:00am] Cloudii: (it’s in the google doc linked on the wiki page https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:April232016)
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| [10:00am] Joay: one, you have a list of eligible candidates and voters?
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| [10:01am] Joay: two, what is the minimum voter turnout?
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| [10:01am] Altux: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CC0g4XjcLEa4jhYws6JJYJFqF9InB-h8ZW1P0r6oXyQ/edit#
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| [10:01am] Cloudii: it’s a self-nomination process, so candidate eligbility would be determined when they nominate themselves
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| [10:01am] Cloudii: voter eligibility is any existing editor translator (which means they already have access to the admin forums)
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| [10:02am] Altux: what is the >500 contribution?
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| [10:02am] Cloudii: or someone on the wiki who requests access
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| [10:02am] Kira0802: I believe it's 500 wiki edits
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| [10:02am] Cloudii: @Altux you can look up the number of contributions you have, like this https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Altux
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| [10:02am] Kira0802: Altux: as in 500 times you changed the wiki
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| [10:03am] Teh_ping: It's our BakaTsuki500
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| [10:03am] Cloudii: minimum voter turnout is actually none, we don’t have much freedom here ;-;
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| [10:03am] Cloudii: I’m not even sure what our population is
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| [10:03am] Teh_ping: voting?
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| [10:03am] Teh_ping: we talking about voting?
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| [10:03am] hayashi: I'm here
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| [10:04am] Cloudii: Any questions or objections to the candidate and voter eligbility?
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| [10:04am] AliceNeo joined the chat room.
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| [10:04am] Joay: i'm worried about the definition of wiki change ...
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| [10:04am] Teh_ping: well, translator is obvious
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| [10:05am] Kira0802: I think it's short for "non-official editors"
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| [10:05am] Teh_ping: but for editors, how much wiki change is debatable
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| [10:05am] Cloudii: yep
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| [10:05am] Teh_ping: Image uploaders can count too, I guess
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| [10:05am] Joay: like how big would be a change for it to count kind of question ...
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| [10:05am] Cloudii: do people have a preferable definition?
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| [10:05am] Kira0802: I don't have one
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| [10:05am] Cloudii: *preferable alternative definition
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| [10:05am] Teh_ping: obviously, we can't go about checking each editor's works one by one
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| [10:05am] Kira0802: The point is to include regulars, is it not?
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| [10:06am] Teh_ping: technically yeah
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| [10:06am] hayashi: sorry Cloudii
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| [10:06am] Cloudii: @Kira0802 yes, the point is to include editors who have made significant contributions/changes to the wiki
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| [10:06am] Joay: talk pages are out of the question, right?
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| [10:06am] hayashi: what was the agenda again?
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| [10:06am] Teh_ping: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:April232016
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| [10:06am] Cloudii: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:April232016
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| [10:06am] Teh_ping: jinx
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| [10:06am] Cloudii:
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| [10:06am] Teh_ping: talk pages are out
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| [10:06am] Teh_ping: ...and we need to filter them
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| [10:06am] observer joined the chat room.
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| [10:07am] Altux: more complete agenda : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CC0g4XjcLEa4jhYws6JJYJFqF9InB-h8ZW1P0r6oXyQ/edit#
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| [10:07am] Teh_ping: Okay cloud, can we change it up a little?
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| [10:07am] Cloudii: yep~
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| [10:07am] Teh_ping: for eligible translator
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| [10:07am] Cloudii: what do you have on mind?
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| [10:07am] Teh_ping: they must have at least 100kb worth of contribution to count
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| [10:07am] XDDD joined the chat room.
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| [10:07am] Teh_ping: ssry, 50
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| [10:07am] Joay: much better, IMO ...
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| [10:07am] Teh_ping: 100kb is too much
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| [10:08am] Kira0802: If your point was to specifically target editors, I'd rather go per number of chapters covered
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| [10:08am] Cloudii: 50kb is reasonable that’s like a chapter or so
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| [10:08am] Teh_ping: joay, 1kb of text is about 1.6k words, right?
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| [10:08am] Kira0802: There's no point in making them change what they think do not need to be touched
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| [10:08am] hayashi: ah ok
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| [10:08am] AliceNeo left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:08am] hayashi: so we're voting on council stuff
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| [10:08am] Kira0802: 50kb is pretty much a short chapter
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| [10:08am] Teh_ping: so, 500kb?
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| [10:08am] Cloudii: 50kb is fine imo
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| [10:08am] aielarbalest joined the chat room.
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| [10:09am] Cloudii: I think it shouldn’t be too hard for translators to become eligble
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| [10:09am] Kira0802: Why not just say "one chapter"
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| [10:09am] Joay: 1kb? that'll be about 4 sentences worth
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| [10:09am] Teh_ping: ...realizes I've been off BT translating for so long
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| [10:09am] Cloudii: if anything I think the elgibility should be easier for translators than editors, but that’s just my opinion
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| [10:09am] Kira0802: Defining by kb is something unnecessarily technical
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| [10:10am] Teh_ping: but I'm using my own example for this
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| [10:10am] Cloudii: Okay translator definition is someone who has translated more than one chapter
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| [10:10am] Teh_ping: one chapter, how long?
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| [10:10am] Joay: tough to say
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| [10:10am] Kira0802: Doesn't really matter
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| [10:10am] Cloudii: I think it’s easier to keep things simple ;-;
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| [10:10am] Kira0802: Most chapters are like 50kb+
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| [10:10am] Teh_ping: prologue, epilogues and afterword shouldn't count here
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| [10:11am] Cloudii: quick vote:
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| [10:11am] Cloudii: single chapter definition
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| [10:11am] Cloudii: b) prologue epi definition (ping's)
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| [10:11am] Joay: illustration annotations == prologue? background info == prologue?
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| [10:11am] Cloudii: c) no definition on translators
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| [10:12am] Cloudii: I don’t think illustrations or background info counts as a chapter
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| [10:12am] Kira0802: I'm going to stick with our same definition for the translator user group
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| [10:12am] Teh_ping: anything before what is called 'chapter 1' in text, I guess
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| [10:12am] Cloudii: I’m with Kira0802 actually ;-;
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| [10:12am] Teh_ping: what was the definition anyway?
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| [10:12am] Kira0802: Which is one chapter
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| [10:12am] Cloudii: the translator usergroup is literally determined by wiki supervisors
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| [10:12am] Cloudii: if it looks like someone is a translator they’re a translator
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| [10:12am] Cloudii: it’s easy to tell ;-;
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| [10:13am] Teh_ping: but we don't have many supervisors T.T
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| [10:13am] Kira0802: Kinda yeah.
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| [10:13am] XDDD_ joined the chat room.
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| [10:13am] Cloudii: we would have to give them permissions to access the forum admin board anyways
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| [10:13am] XDDD left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:13am] Cloudii: In either case, I think it’s excessive to have an elaborate kb definition for translators
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| [10:14am] Kira0802: There are supervisors, though the role is merely to accept people in the user group so far
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| [10:14am] Teh_ping: ...actually, cloud, that definition was more for voting eligibility
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| [10:15am] Cloudii: I’m writing directly into the doc for now
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| [10:15am] Cloudii: any objections from here?
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| [10:15am] Cloudii: I’ve put it in blue so the later session can have separate input too
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| [10:15am] Kira0802: I see no problem with that.
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| [10:16am] Cloudii: If we’re good here let’s move on?
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| [10:16am] Joay: ok
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| [10:16am] Cthaeh: In the final written guidelines, I'd have whatever metric we come up be listed as a guideline, and
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| [10:16am] Cthaeh: include a note that editors with significant contributions that fall short numerically can still request access and be approved at supervisor discretion
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| [10:16am] Cthaeh: quality of edits (or number of bytes changed) is highly variable depending
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| [10:16am] Cloudii: I’m with Cthaeh
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| [10:16am] Cthaeh: current definitions are fine by me
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| [10:16am] Teh_ping: editor is the harder thing to define though
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| [10:16am] Kira0802: Just go with number of chapters covered
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| [10:16am] Cloudii: Anyhow, next item, nomination period for elections
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| [10:16am] Teh_ping: gotcha
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| [10:17am] Cloudii: Is it fine to have it on the wiki?
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| [10:17am] Teh_ping: ...normally we go with forums
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| [10:17am] Teh_ping: but with it easily spammed
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| [10:17am] Cloudii: yeah, but I think the wiki is more… open
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| [10:17am] Altux: why not the blog?
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| [10:17am] Teh_ping: agreed
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| [10:17am] Teh_ping: nobody uses the blog
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| [10:17am] Cloudii: and I’d like to get in the habit of doing more things on the wiki
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| [10:17am] Altux: facebook?
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| [10:17am] Kira0802: Doesn't that mean you have to publicly vote?
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| [10:18am] Cloudii: a lot of wiki users don’t use the forums (or facebook)
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| [10:18am] Teh_ping: that's just chaos
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| [10:18am] Cloudii: no, the voting is still happening on the forums
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| [10:18am] Cloudii: but I’d like to have the nominations on the wiki
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| [10:18am] Teh_ping: ah, okay
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| [10:18am] Cloudii: any questions?
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| [10:18am] Kira0802: I'm uncomfortable with public voting
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| [10:18am] Teh_ping: add 'voting will be done on the forums' after the 'they like to the nomination page', cloud
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| [10:18am] Cloudii: We’re not having public voting
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| [10:19am] Teh_ping: we're just throwing names
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| [10:19am] Kira0802: How do you set secret voting in the wiki?
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| [10:19am] Teh_ping: on the admin forum?
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| [10:19am] Cloudii: It’s in the administration forum board
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| [10:19am] Cloudii: it’s our way of controlling it so only eligible voters can vote
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| [10:19am] Cthaeh: nominations on wiki is fine
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| [10:20am] Cloudii: If we’re good on this topic can we move on?
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| [10:20am] Kira0802: Yeah
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| [10:20am] Teh_ping: yep
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| [10:20am] Cloudii: (if you have questions you’d like for the candidates, just make them and I’ll add them to the list)
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| [10:20am] Cloudii: Election rules
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| [10:20am] Cloudii: the key thing I wanted to add was no campaigning on the wiki
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| [10:21am] Cloudii: other rules are more or less obvious
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| [10:21am] Teh_ping: I'm not worried about the candidates campaigning
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| [10:21am] Teh_ping: I'm more worried about people pushing for candidates campaigning
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| [10:21am] Cloudii: I’d just like to make it a rule just in case…
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| [10:21am] Kira0802: You can add a candidate sub in the admin group
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| [10:22am] Cloudii: what do you mean Kira0802?
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| [10:22am] Cthaeh: I'm worried about getting less than 5 nominees...
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| [10:22am] Cloudii: haha Cthaeh
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| [10:22am] Kira0802: Each topic is about one's candidature within a subsection of the admin board
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| [10:22am] Teh_ping: I'm expecting 2...
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| [10:22am] Cloudii: can we ammend the constitution right now so that if we have less than 5 nominees, the rest of the board can be appointed?
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| [10:23am] Kira0802: Wait
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| [10:23am] Kira0802: Why is there the need for 5 nominees when only 1 place is vacant
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| [10:23am] Cthaeh: so Cthaeh can run away
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| [10:23am] Teh_ping: are we reshuffling the board, or something?
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| [10:23am] Cloudii: Some people may not want to run again
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| [10:23am] • Teh_ping looks away
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| [10:24am] Cloudii: it’s called democracy~ if people think you did bad then may not get elected again~
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| [10:24am] Cloudii: in either case, any additions to the election rules?
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| [10:24am] Cloudii: if not, moving on
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| [10:24am] Joay: 5 posts up for grabs in a general election ...
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| [10:24am] Kira0802: I totally forgot it's been a whole year
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| [10:24am] Kira0802: No
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| [10:24am] Kira0802: Go on
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| [10:24am] Teh_ping: sometimes it's not about doing bad, but rather who's forced to take up the position
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| [10:25am] Cloudii: Alrightie, uh… this is something I should have done earlier, but we need to figure out which supervisors are still active/inactive
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| [10:25am] Cloudii: What is a good number of supervisors to have overall?
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| [10:25am] Cloudii: (non-alternative languages, that is)
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| [10:25am] Teh_ping: 7
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| [10:25am] hayashi: 7 is quite a lot ping
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| [10:25am] Cloudii: throw a number everyone~
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| [10:25am] Cthaeh: 15
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| [10:25am] Joay: one
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| [10:25am] Cloudii: well, I actually think it’s nicer to have more
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| [10:26am] Kira0802: 2-3 per language
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| [10:26am] Teh_ping: right now, we have 147 main projects
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| [10:26am] Cloudii: more supervisors = more people to edit the main page
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| [10:26am] Teh_ping: some obviously way bigger than others
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| [10:26am] hayashi: how many of those 147 are active though
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| [10:26am] Teh_ping: and so many are hosted too
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| [10:27am] Cloudii: Currently I’m leaning for like 2 per non-English language, and like 7 english
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| [10:27am] Kira0802: Do you have a list of number of projects per language?
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| [10:27am] Cloudii: 7-10 maybe english
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| [10:27am] Joay: can we check the current supervisors' edit history?
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| [10:27am] Cloudii: yep
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| [10:27am] Kira0802: Yes.
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| [10:27am] foxhunt_mobile joined the chat room.
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| [10:28am] Cthaeh: Brazilian Portuguese 34-39 Czech 6 Filipino 6 French ~67 (Vaelis, Lery, Kira0802) German 16 (Daklor) Greek 4 Indonesian 46+ (Arczyx, Tony Yon) Italian 10 Lithuanian 6 Polish ~30 Russian 45+ (Sharkrahs) Spanish 45 (FNX, RedGlassesGirl(?)) Turkish 5 Vietnamese 30
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| [10:28am] Cloudii: so the current bid is 10 general supervisors?
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| [10:28am] Cloudii: up or down?
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| [10:28am] Cthaeh: formatting got messed up, but that's what it was a year ago
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| [10:28am] Teh_ping: tbh, I'm thinking it'll be amazing if we can have more supervisors than the number of active chatters on this IRC
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| [10:28am] AndChat-74900 joined the chat room.
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| [10:28am] foxhunt_mobile left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: In either case, what I was imagining was that there would be a supervisor application form
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: would put this up concurently with elections
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| [10:29am] Joay: one supervisor for 10 projects maybe?
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: a supervisor wanna-be would fill out the form if they were interested
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: Executive Council would look over later
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| [10:29am] Cthaeh: we have 13 listed currently
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| [10:29am] FoxhuntM left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: a very easy~ form
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| [10:29am] Cthaeh: do you mean 10 active?
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: Cthaeh brings up a good point
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| [10:29am] antihero joined the chat room.
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: that means we can’t have less than 13
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| [10:29am] Kira0802: One per 10 project is good.
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| [10:29am] Cloudii: unless we shrank for sure
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| [10:29am] Teh_ping: sighs
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| [10:30am] Cloudii: 1 supervisor or 10 projects
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| [10:30am] Cloudii: I’m good with that
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| [10:30am] Cloudii: *per
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| [10:30am] Teh_ping: so, what are our popular projects?
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| [10:30am] Kira0802: Well like 90% of the novels got nuked
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| [10:30am] Teh_ping: I'm guessing one supervisor per active popular project
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| [10:30am] Cloudii: I think active is good enough
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| [10:30am] Kira0802: That's hard to define, ping
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| [10:30am] Kira0802: And a hassle to manage
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| [10:31am] Cloudii: wait, actually, that would bring us to less than 13 supervisors
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| [10:31am] Teh_ping: one person manages zzhk's works, one person manages js06.exe works
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| [10:31am] Kira0802: Are we talking about English only?
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| [10:31am] Teh_ping: ...that's torture
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| [10:31am] Cloudii: english only
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| [10:31am] Cloudii: I think we’re in the present situation of the more people, the better
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| [10:32am] antihero left the chat room.
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| [10:32am] Cloudii: I’m thinking 1 supervisor per 10 full projects
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| [10:32am] Cloudii: so 14.6 supervisors
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| [10:32am] Cloudii: is the cap on general english supervisors
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| [10:32am] Cloudii: realistically there will be less though
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| [10:32am] Kira0802: How about 7 projects, one supervisor?
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| [10:33am] Teh_ping: realistically, we have only 20 active projects or so
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| [10:33am] AndChat-74900 left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:33am] Cloudii: (shhh I’m trying to pull more people into running BT)
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| [10:33am] Cloudii: (ranks are like… the carrot...)
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| [10:33am] Teh_ping: tbh, half of the projects are hosted, so they're their own admins, I guess
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| [10:33am] Teh_ping: and supervisors
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| [10:33am] Kira0802: We can just bundle inactive projects with the active ones when someone takes a supervising job
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| [10:33am] Cloudii: Teh Ping does have a point
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| [10:33am] Cloudii: well, we’re not dividing up projects though
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| [10:34am] Cloudii: supervisors are there to hopefull do Cthaeh’s job
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| [10:34am] Cthaeh: I don't personally think we need a ceiling, if you get qualified people interested, then sure they can be supervisors
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| [10:34am] Teh_ping: just leave the inactive ones for the time being
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| [10:34am] Cloudii: Cthaeh has a good point too......
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| [10:34am] Cthaeh: I don't think we'd run into issues of too many at the moment
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| [10:34am] Kira0802: Hosted projects shouldn't mean they are their own supervisor though
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| [10:34am] Teh_ping: we're beggars at this point, not choosers
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| [10:34am] Cloudii: actually let’s just scrap all this about a cap
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| [10:34am] Cloudii:
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| [10:34am] Teh_ping: sighs
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: I guess our priority is to find at least 1 per alternative language
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| [10:35am] Joay: teaser projects == inactive project?
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| [10:35am] Teh_ping: anyway, just get as many as we can
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: no Joay
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: but it was an approximation...
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: the supervisors aren’t assigned to projects anyway
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| [10:35am] Kira0802: I'm more interested in defining that the hell is a supervisor supposed to do
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: their role is basically to patrol the wiki
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: do Cthaeh’s job
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| [10:35am] Cloudii: supervisor = BT moderator (on the wiki)
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| [10:36am] Cloudii: ..the definition has changed over the years...
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| [10:36am] Cthaeh: I don't do anything these days... so I'd hope for a little better
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| [10:36am] Teh_ping: anyway cloud, let's just see what we can get first
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| [10:36am] Cloudii: good, let’s move on
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| [10:36am] Cloudii: Should we add more positions that people can apply to?
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| [10:37am] Cloudii: e.g. more people to take himel’s job
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| [10:37am] Kira0802: What else is there
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| [10:37am] Cloudii: or blog manager
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| [10:37am] Teh_ping: only one I can think of is image cleaner
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| [10:37am] Cloudii: supervisor of audio projects…
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| [10:37am] Teh_ping: how's the audio project going anyway?
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| [10:37am] Cloudii: It died when Oni retired
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| [10:37am] Kira0802: I want Himel to choose his people by himself
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| [10:37am] Teh_ping: sigh
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| [10:38am] Cloudii: well I guess we can inform Himel that then
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| [10:38am] Kira0802: Rather than pushing something to him
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| [10:38am] Cloudii: but the others?
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| [10:38am] Kira0802: What's left?
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| [10:38am] Cloudii: I think it might be nice to have a supervisor for OLNs and WNs
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| [10:38am] hayashi: probably the election
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| [10:38am] hayashi: hopefully we will have a trump candidate
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| [10:38am] Teh_ping: that can be for a general supervisor to handle, I guess
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| [10:38am] hayashi: to liven up the proceedings
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| [10:38am] • Teh_ping chops Hayashi down
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| [10:38am] Joay: *shudder*
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| [10:39am] Cloudii: if the responsibilit y isn’t assigned, it’s never going to be done
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| [10:39am] Cthaeh: *whistles*
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| [10:39am] Teh_ping: forests are meant to be cleared
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| [10:39am] Teh_ping: anyway, back on point
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| [10:39am] Cloudii: in either case, in the WN policy last year, the point was that somebody would review WN to see if they’re “good enough” eligible to be presented to the Executive council
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| [10:39am] meganeshounen joined the chat room.
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| [10:39am] Cloudii: same with OLNs
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| [10:39am] Cloudii: (that “somebody” never got determined xD)
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| [10:40am] Kira0802: Just let the supervisor board do that work
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| [10:40am] Kira0802: Instead of having a single one do it
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| [10:40am] Teh_ping: WN will need more than 1 supervisor, I think
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| [10:40am] Cloudii: the supervisors are lazy, everyone knows that~
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| [10:40am] Kira0802: WN influx stopped
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| [10:40am] Teh_ping: so adding more lazy bums to lazy bums, yeah that'll work
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| [10:40am] Cloudii: we actually don’t get very many people interested in hosting their WN anymore
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| [10:40am] Teh_ping: yeah, donations and such
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| [10:40am] Cloudii: I think one will suffice
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| [10:41am] Cloudii: imo the best person to do it is someone interested in doing it
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| [10:41am] Cloudii: like if they like WNs or if they like OLNs
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| [10:41am] Flutz joined the chat room.
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| [10:41am] Cloudii: so should we open these “extra” positions?
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| [10:41am] Kira0802: Do we have someone like that
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| [10:42am] Joay: must be a wattpad fan if they're into WN or OLNs ...
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| [10:42am] Cloudii: have someone like what?
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| [10:42am] Cthaeh: sure, if you want to organize the recruiting for it
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| [10:42am] Joay: just guessing ...
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| [10:42am] Kira0802: Interested in all OLNs and who's active
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| [10:42am] Cloudii: haha Cthaeh
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| [10:42am] Kira0802: But open them, there's nothing to lose here anyway
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| [10:42am] Cloudii: are we good here or shall we move on?
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| [10:42am] Kira0802: Except for WNs
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| [10:43am] Kira0802: Yeah, we're good
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| [10:43am] Teh_ping: we good
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| [10:43am] Cloudii: Next item is make rules more concise…. this is more of a personal goal really
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| [10:43am] Cloudii: but there’s a lot of stuff in the rules like “inform the administration help page” that isn’t really meaningful…
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| [10:43am] Teh_ping: and more effective
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| [10:43am] Cloudii: any opinions?
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| [10:43am] Kira0802: Someone link me the rules
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| [10:44am] Cloudii: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Rules
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| [10:44am] Teh_ping: well, times have changed
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| [10:44am] Cloudii: the external contributor guidelines are a mess
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| [10:44am] Teh_ping: but a common theme amongst readers is tl:dr
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| [10:44am] Cloudii: new project startup guidelines are too long
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| [10:44am] Cloudii: and a pain
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| [10:44am] Cloudii: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:New_Project_Startup_Guidelines
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| [10:44am] Victorrama joined the chat room.
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| [10:44am] Kira0802: Someone with an IQ of 50 can understand them though
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| [10:44am] Victorrama: Hola
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| [10:44am] Cthaeh: shorter rules would probably be good, changing that is more of a volunteer thing than a delegate thing though
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| [10:44am] Kira0802: They are long but not incomprehensible
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping: ...cloud, you created that, didn't you?
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: yep
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping: sighz
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: everything is my fault
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| [10:45am] erebea_v2 joined the chat room.
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: (but secretly it’s all Kira’s fault)
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping: ...except for the project abandonment
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| [10:45am] Kira0802: Hi Vic
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping: now that's my fault
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping is now known as Teh_ping.
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: project abandonment is sensitive so I won’t touch that
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: I really just want to cut down on the project startup rules
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| [10:45am] Kira0802: I can volunteer to go over them
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| [10:45am] Cloudii: and external contributor guidelines
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| [10:45am] Teh_ping: I want to revise the abandonment one
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| [10:46am] Cloudii: Teh_ping go on?
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| [10:46am] Cloudii: lol Ping I thought you were a precious random person
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| [10:46am] Teh_ping: for the abandonment policy, the process is still kind of vague to me
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| [10:46am] Teh_ping: it's my next project on BT
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| [10:46am] Teh_ping: there's a reason for that
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| [10:47am] Cloudii: Ping, run for executive council and then work with the exec council to change it
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| [10:47am] Teh_ping: don't wanna
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| [10:47am] Cloudii: I feel like this is too sensitive of an area for someone to do unilaterally
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| [10:47am] SoraSky joined the chat room.
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| [10:47am] Cloudii: you can also edit it yourself and present it to the executive council
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| [10:47am] Teh_ping is now known as Teh.
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| [10:47am] Cloudii: draft up a new version and present it
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| [10:47am] Cloudii: that works too
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| [10:47am] Kira0802: I can just add a tl;dr in the top of new project guidelines
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| [10:48am] Teh is now known as Teh_ping.
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| [10:48am] Cloudii: So I guess Kira0802 and me will work on simplifying the new project and external contributor guidelines
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| [10:48am] Cloudii: Teh Ping will work on the abandonment
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| [10:48am] Cloudii: but draft it up in the talk page, not on the actual page
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| [10:48am] Victorrama: Any short summary? I came in kinda late
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| [10:48am] Teh_ping: need me to vet through the guidelines?
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| [10:48am] Cloudii: like copy paste everything and post your new version on the talk page
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| [10:48am] Kira0802: I want to redefine the whole external guidelines though
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: then PM the executive council
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: okay Kira0802
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| [10:49am] Kira0802: Nothing much Vic
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: Just whatever you guys do, don’t edit it directly ;-;
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| [10:49am] Teh_ping: on the talk page please
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: Do it on the talk page or somewhere else first please
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| [10:49am] LeinadDan joined the chat room.
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| [10:49am] Kira0802: Cloud, I'll just post a draft proposal in the admin forum
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: That works too
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| [10:49am] Cloudii: Are we good? Moving on?
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| [10:49am] Teh_ping: yep
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| [10:49am] Kira0802: Go ahead
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| [10:50am] Cloudii: @Victorroma the transcript will be posted
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| [10:50am] Cloudii: Any outstanding things that need to be updated on the main page?
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| [10:50am] Cloudii: lol Ping is correcting my spelling
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| [10:50am] Cloudii: If not, then there’s just the Q&A on the server move
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| [10:50am] Victorrama: Okay
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| [10:50am] Cloudii: or Q&A on anything really
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| [10:51am] Teh_ping: tbh, I'm a little curious on something
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| [10:51am] Kira0802: Can someone please let people with supervisor rights to edit the sidebar?
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| [10:51am] Cloudii: can you edit the sidebar Kira0802?
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| [10:51am] Teh_ping: is the current/upcoming anime section really up-to-date?
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| [10:51am] Teh_ping: so far, it's for admin only
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| [10:51am] Kira0802: I don't recall being able to do so
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| [10:51am] Cloudii: can you try right now
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| [10:51am] Cloudii: ?
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| [10:52am] Kira0802: <-on my phone
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| [10:52am] Cloudii: the last I checked, it’s been changed
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| [10:52am] Teh_ping: by zzhk, I believe?
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| [10:52am] Teh_ping: yep
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| [10:52am] Cthaeh: random topic that KLS asked me to bring up in his absence: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&p=270906#p270906
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| [10:52am] Cthaeh: http://kltranslate.herokuapp.com/
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| [10:53am] Cthaeh: He wanted to check to make sure that wouldn't be considered MTL
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| [10:53am] Cloudii: Is there any non administrator here that is a supervisor?
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| [10:53am] Cloudii: I’ll need to read it in a bit
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| [10:53am] Cloudii: Victorrama are you here?
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| [10:53am] Cthaeh: it doesn't look like that would be
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| [10:53am] Victorrama: Yes
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| [10:53am] Cloudii: can you try editting the sidebar?
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| [10:53am] Cthaeh: you feed it JP, and it lists the dictionary definitions of everything
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| [10:53am] Cloudii: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar
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| [10:53am] Teh_ping: only for sysop
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| [10:54am] Teh_ping: [edit=sysop] (indefinite)[move=sysop]
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| [10:54am] Victorrama: Nope
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| [10:54am] Victorrama: I can't
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| [10:54am] Cloudii:
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| [10:54am] Cloudii: I want more people to have sidebar editing rights....
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| [10:54am] puj joined the chat room.
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| [10:55am] Cthaeh: for the main page, even if you don't want to change user rights, you can define a template that is supervisor editable for the sections that need to be change frequently
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| [10:55am] Cthaeh: sidebar editing writes are linked to a lot of other pages too
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| [10:55am] Cloudii: Victor can you change the main page?
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| [10:55am] Victorrama: Which?
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| [10:55am] Cloudii: we trained the include with the sidebar before but it didn’t work
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| [10:55am] Cloudii: the Baka-Tsuki main page
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| [10:56am] Victorrama: A sec
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| [10:56am] Kira0802: I can
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| [10:56am] Kira0802: I think
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| [10:56am] Cthaeh: (it's a wiki infrastructure page or some such thing, so I think it needs to be changed in group rights definitions)
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| [10:56am] Victorrama: Yes i can
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| [10:57am] Cloudii: well… it’d be nice if supervisors could edit the sidebar in the future
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| [10:57am] Teh_ping: it's admin only for now
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| [10:57am] Cloudii: I guess we’ll have to ask Lery or Simon if they can figure something about it
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| [10:57am] Teh_ping: which means zzhk is at admin level too
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| [10:57am] Cloudii: yep
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| [10:57am] Kira0802: But yeah, all this time I have never been able to add project to the sidebar and it pissed me off
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| [10:57am] Teh_ping: ...either way, or I'll have to come back and do the sidebar edits
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| [10:57am] Teh_ping: sighz
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| [10:57am] Cloudii: About KLS’s thing...
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| [10:57am] Cloudii: I’m biased
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| [10:58am] Cloudii: I’m all for it really, because I really like active members ;-;
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| [10:58am] sovyat left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:58am] Teh_ping: I like that idea too
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| [10:58am] Joay: is that based on wwwjdic?
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| [10:58am] Cloudii: it is very close to quasi-machine translation though ;-;
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| [10:58am] Teh_ping: text glossing tool
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| [10:58am] Teh_ping: so, pretty much yeah
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| [10:58am] Victorrama: KLS..?
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| [10:58am] Cloudii: KLSylph
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| [10:58am] Kira0802: KLS' parser should be a tool, not a mean
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| [10:58am] Teh_ping: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&p=270906#p270906
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| [10:59am] Teh_ping: I like the initiative, but it's as Kira0802 said
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| [10:59am] Cloudii: well, I think we can allow it
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| [10:59am] Cloudii: the rules still stands that we don’t allow MTLing
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| [10:59am] XDDD_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [10:59am] Kira0802: There's no point in dismissing tools through which one could get help from, although the basic idea is that you don't TL the whole thing from a parser
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| [10:59am] Teh_ping: but we can have the thing on the sidebar though
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| [10:59am] Cloudii: so there’s this fuzzy gray area where the tools usage is still allowed
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| [10:59am] Teh_ping: we still have BakaReader EX out there
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| [10:59am] Cloudii: seems like we have a consensus
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| [11:00am] Teh_ping: let's include it
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| [11:00am] Cloudii: Oh and I’d like to link novelupdates.com on the main page too
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| [11:00am] Cloudii: any other topics people would like to discuss?
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| [11:00am] Cloudii: otherwise this session is just about done~
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| [11:00am] hyddty joined the chat room.
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| [11:00am] Cthaeh: 1 coming
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| [11:01am] Victorrama: That tool...
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| [11:01am] Joay: novelupdates.com --> quick links ?
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| [11:01am] Teh_ping: hey guys, if any of you are shy about raising something, just message any one of us
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| [11:01am] Victorrama: I suppose we can treat it like jisho
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| [11:01am] Kira0802: I think novelupdates and recent changes to the general scene should push BT to a more TL-focused group
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| [11:01am] Cloudii: agreed Kira0802
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| [11:01am] Kira0802: As in
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| [11:01am] Victorrama: How is BT relationship with mangaupdates?
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| [11:01am] Cloudii: we don’t have one
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| [11:02am] Cloudii: @victorrama
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| [11:02am] Victorrama: I say tray it as same way then
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| [11:02am] Teh_ping: what about novelupdates?
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| [11:02am] Kira0802: Less stuff about "promoting novels" and more focus in projects
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| [11:02am] Cloudii: it’s just a useful thing I’ve been using lately
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| [11:02am] Cloudii: We have aho updates linked for instance ;-;
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| [11:02am] TrippleD left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
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| [11:02am] Teh_ping: well, it certainly ain't useful in informing me about which hellping projects are updated
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| [11:02am] Cthaeh: I'll wait a moment for novel updates discussion
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| [11:02am] Kira0802: Isn't aho updates the same as novelupdates?
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| [11:03am] Cloudii: novelupdates is more like mangaupdates
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| [11:03am] Victorrama: I say ignore it since we ignore mangaupdates...? And aho too
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| [11:03am] BitterChu2 joined the chat room.
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| [11:03am] Cloudii: Well, if it were up to me, I’d actually like to assign someone to do himel’s job on novelupdates or mangaupdates
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| [11:03am] Teh_ping: ...which is himel's job
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| [11:03am] Cloudii: himel only does it on facebook
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| [11:04am] Kira0802: His is more a
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| [11:04am] Teh_ping: basically, he'll be the 'promotion team leader'
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| [11:04am] Cloudii: (and twitter)
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| [11:04am] Kira0802: Promotion+update one
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| [11:04am] Kira0802: Rather than just update
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| [11:04am] Teh_ping: he also does some mangaupdates too, if I remember
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| [11:04am] Kira0802: Just let him form his own team
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| [11:04am] Cloudii: okeee
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| [11:04am] Teh_ping: tbh, I'll prefer to have the readers promote what they like
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| [11:04am] Cloudii: Cthaeh you were saying?
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| [11:04am] Teh_ping: novel updates?
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| [11:05am] Judith joined the chat room.
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| [11:05am] Cthaeh: I've been mulling the idea of moving pdfs and such from forums to wiki, having a separate "PDF" page for each progect (ie Rokujouma:PDF).
| |
| [11:05am] Cthaeh: One one hand, this would make it much easier to share and manage. On the other hand, making pdfs more widespread hurts my position on licensing a bit.
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| [11:05am] Cthaeh: I do think moving it could be an opportunity to increase activity overall. It'd be a lot easier to find the pdf you're looking for (and delete the page once it's licensed), compared to having to search forum posts 1 by 1.
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| [11:05am] Cthaeh: So I'm curious what people think of the tradeoffs there.
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| [11:06am] Kira0802: Do that
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| [11:06am] Cloudii: I favor this, so long as you find the people to implement the changes
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| [11:06am] Victorrama: Who'd be responsible for making and checking it..?
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| [11:06am] Cloudii: it’s a lot of work up front
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| [11:06am] Victorrama: The PDFs..
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| [11:06am] Cthaeh: People make pdfs already
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| [11:06am] Victorrama: Coz there will be lots of version poping
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| [11:06am] Cloudii: do you want a separate subboard for PDFs?
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| [11:06am] Kira0802: It lets the community check it too
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| [11:06am] Cthaeh: they just share them in forum posts
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| [11:06am] Victorrama: Dont we have the PDF thread in it?
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| [11:07am] Kira0802: I think you can make them a section just above "Volume 1" and under "Registration" though
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| [11:07am] Cloudii: My assumption is to update the forum rules so that users should not post PDF links in ordinary threads… only in the PDF subboard
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| [11:07am] Cthaeh: Yeah, I'd open up a forum topic in the pdf subforum to see if the current people who make/share pdfs would want
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| [11:07am] Cthaeh: I want a separate page for pdfs so it can be deleted cleanly on licensing
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| [11:07am] Cloudii: I would say go for it Cthaeh
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| [11:07am] Cloudii: I’ll separate the Appreciate and PDF subboards for you if you want?
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| [11:07am] hayashi: I'm not keen on making pdfs more available
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| [11:07am] Cloudii: *apreciation
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| [11:08am] hayashi: it weakens our position on not enabling piracy
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| [11:08am] Cthaeh: Also because I wanted to get Simon/Lery to disable google page caching and webarchive for those pages
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| [11:08am] Cloudii: well, I see it more from a practical standpoint
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| [11:08am] Cloudii: currently it takes a Cthaeh a lot of work to search through forum posts 1 by 1 for any PDFs
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| [11:08am] Cloudii: this way we can put it in the rules: “No PDF links except in this subboard"
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| [11:08am] Cthaeh: I'm also concerned on hayashi's point, is why I've been dragging my feet
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| [11:08am] Teh_ping: gather them all
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| [11:09am] Teh_ping: or not?
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| [11:09am] Teh_ping: tbh, we're still grey in this area
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| [11:09am] Kira0802: It's either going to be PDFs that people hunt for or PDFs that we can provide
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| [11:09am] Victorrama: I vote for not
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| [11:09am] Teh_ping: tbh, I think there will be others already providing the PDFs
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| [11:09am] Kira0802: I'd rather have us providing them than a third party making ads money through linking them
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| [11:10am] Victorrama: Agreed with hayashi
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| [11:10am] Cloudii: Well, to me it’s a vote between status quo and Cthaeh’s proposal
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| [11:10am] Teh_ping: ...it's a lose-lose situation how
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| [11:10am] Teh_ping: huh*
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| [11:10am] Cloudii: the status quo is that PDFs are linked randomly in the forum posts
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| [11:10am] Cloudii: the alternative is to concentrate them all somewhere
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| [11:11am] watuo joined the chat room.
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| [11:11am] Kira0802: I vote for concentrate
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| [11:11am] Cloudii: Cthaeh, if it makes you feel better, we can delay this for the next executive council board
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| [11:11am] Cloudii: the present executive council here is mostly in favor of concentrating as far as I can tell
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| [11:12am] Cthaeh: Sure, I'm personally going to be doing work on it before then
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| [11:12am] Cloudii: I’m also in favor of concentrating
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| [11:12am] Cloudii: if only for logistical reasons
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| [11:12am] Cloudii: Any other topics?
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| [11:13am] watuo: is this a chat to see what series should be translated?
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| [11:13am] Cloudii: nope
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| [11:13am] Cthaeh: no
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| [11:13am] Kira0802: Oh right
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| [11:13am] Teh_ping: nope
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| [11:13am] Kira0802: Questions about servers;
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| [11:13am] Teh_ping: let's repeat this again, no series will be reinstated despite the move
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| [11:13am] Joay: that pdf link relocation apply to existing links?
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| [11:13am] Kira0802: What does that mean for Kadokawa DCMAs?
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| [11:13am] Cloudii: yes Teh_ping
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| [11:14am] Cloudii: we already received the DMCAs so those series are not being reinstated
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| [11:14am] Teh_ping: all DMCAed series will not be reinstated, AT ALL
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| [11:14am] hyddty_ joined the chat room.
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| [11:14am] Kira0802: And what does Lery's server location provide as an advantage?
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| [11:14am] Cloudii: yes, that was what the executive council agreed on last month
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| [11:14am] Teh_ping: moving servers is mostly to stop the bleeding, actually
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| [11:14am] Cthaeh: Lery's stays online
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| [11:14am] Cloudii: It’s more like we don’t have an alternative; TLG is dropping the ball
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| [11:14am] Cloudii:
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| [11:14am] Cloudii: that’s something he already decided
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| [11:15am] Joay: just curious, from what Kadokawa branch did the DMCA come from ...
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| [11:15am] hyddty left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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| [11:15am] Cloudii: I have no idea. It’s somewhere in the forums
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| [11:15am] Cloudii: It was sent by a proxy of Kadokawa I think, actually
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| [11:15am] observer left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
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| [11:16am] Cloudii: Anything else? last calls
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| [11:16am] zxzxzx: in regards to future DMCAs, what will happen?
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| [11:16am] Cloudii: The same as always
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| [11:16am] Cloudii: if we get a DMCA, the series gets removed
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| [11:16am] Kira0802: What about alternative languages
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| [11:16am] Victorrama: I say kill it along
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| [11:16am] Cloudii: I think the current protocol is that the alternative language stays
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| [11:16am] Cloudii: I think
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| [11:17am] Cthaeh: I'm fine with just deleting the pages listed by the dmcas
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| [11:17am] Kira0802: I never understood the point of Kadokawa nuking a French project when the series will never see the light in French
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| [11:17am] Cthaeh: (and cleaning up random missed pages)
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| [11:17am] Victorrama: Random bot shot?
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| [11:17am] Teh_ping: nope, alt goes too
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| [11:17am] Teh_ping: it was in the original link
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| [11:17am] Cloudii: In either case, @victorrama, if you feel differently, this is something to express in the elections~
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| [11:17am] Teh_ping: all languages go in the DMCA
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| [11:18am] Victorrama: Tomorrow huh?
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| [11:18am] Cloudii: where is this Teh_Ping?
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| [11:18am] Kira0802: I've been under the impression Kadokawa just ctrl-F its projects and be like "this is illegal"
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| [11:18am] Cloudii: on the all languages going in the DMCA?
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| [11:19am] Cloudii: This hasn’t been our policy; when Spice and Wolf went, the other languages stayed
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| [11:19am] Teh_ping: I'm looking into it atm
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| [11:19am] Teh_ping: think deletion was inconsistent back then
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| [11:20am] Kira0802: Book Girl Vietnamese stayed, for instance
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| [11:20am] Cloudii: Teh ping if you want to nuke the alt languages you should run for executive council~
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| [11:20am] Teh_ping: ...I'm checking through 30k messages for now
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| [11:21am] Cloudii: Alright anything else (for the last time)?
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| [11:21am] Cloudii: Otherwise I’m ending the log here
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| [11:21am] Kira0802: End the log here
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| [11:21am] Cloudii: Cool~
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| [11:21am] Cloudii: Meeting ajourned!
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| [11:22am] aielarbalest: good work guys
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| [11:22am] Teh_ping: cloud, for an idea for DMCA: https://lumendatabase.org/notices/11335568
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| [11:22am] Kira0802: (And adopt RS' proposal)
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| [11:22am] • Victorrama cheers
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| [11:22am] Cloudii: what do you mean Teh_ping?
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| [11:22am] Teh_ping: https://lumendatabase.org/notices/11667737
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| [11:22am] Teh_ping: ...well, if you check the links, they do have alt
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| [11:22am] Teh_ping: it's just inconsistent
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| [11:22am] Kira0802: It fucking went to the Vietnamese and French projects
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| [11:23am] Cloudii: Well, take down the projects that the DMCA hits
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| [11:23am] Cloudii: if the DMCA misses… idk… spanish… then spanish runs free
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| [11:23am] Cloudii: Russian Roulette!
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| [11:23am] Joay: heh
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| [11:23am] Victorrama: That sounds.... Meeping fun
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| [11:23am] Kira0802: Just for fun
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| [11:24am] Kira0802: Is there a way to unlist projects from Google?
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| [11:24am] Kira0802: .g discord
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| [11:24am] Victorrama: Kill the meta?
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| [11:24am] Cthaeh: yes, there is
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| [11:24am] Cthaeh: but I don't really want to do that
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| [11:25am] Cthaeh: (personally)
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| [11:25am] Kira0802: Ah, ok.
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| [11:25am] Teh_ping: we're just strangling ourselves if we do that, I think
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| </nowiki>
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| </pre>
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| |}
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|
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| {| class="wikitable collapsible collapsed"
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| ! Complete Log of the Sunday Session
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| |-
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| <pre style="white-space: pre-wrap;
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| word-wrap: break-word">
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| <nowiki>
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| [...]
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|
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| </nowiki>
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| </pre>
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| |}
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|
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| [[Category:News]] | | [[Category:News]] |