Editing Talk:No Game No Life:Names and Terminology Guideline

Proposal: アッシェンテ > Ascente? Sounds a bit more fluid, and is apparently even a word in some obscure language.

*I don't particularly mind since it may just be a word the author made up. But I'll go ahead and state why I put it as "Acciente". First off, Ascente makes me think of the word "Ascent", but with a Spanish accent. Ascent, in Japanese, is normally spelled アセント, though. Not that that really means much since some words have several ways of being spelled in Japanese. But rather than ascent, the meaning would be closer to assent (same spelling in JP), which "[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/assente#Portuguese Assente]" is a form of the word with the same meaning in Portuguese (since the author is Brazillian). But while I know different languages cause different spellings, I don't know why he went with ッシェ instead of セ as I don't really know how Portuguese would look to a Japanese. Instead, I decided to go with a foreign flavor that could still be pronounced the same. Also, I couldn't find what "Ascente" specifically meant. Halp. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 16:39, 1 August 2013 (CDT)

:*Yep, ascente pretty much means ascent. We'll stick with yours then I guess, it certainly sounds fancier.
That being said the author's Brazillian?? Guess that explains why the sentence structures etcetc are so much simpler and easier to translate (hurrah). [[User:Seitsuki|Seit]] ([[User talk:Seitsuki|talk]]) 19:30, 1 August 2013 (CDT)


This one is more preferential but...にい > romanise directly as Nii and maybe throwing in a TL note? It just...sounds so much more moe that way >_> [[User:Seitsuki|Seit]] ([[User talk:Seitsuki|talk]]) 08:09, 2 August 2013 (CDT)

*にぃ doesn't actually translate perfectly regardless because of the small い, but yeah, all I did for the manga is "Nii". Honestly, a TL note wouldn't even be necessary; if they're reading light novels, odds are very, very good they already know what it refers to. It's basically the only exception I have since refuse to use Japanese honorifics (or any Japanese words whenever possible, but tsundere and moe don't exactly translate well) in western fantasy settings. It's just one of the things that will easily take me out of a book. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 20:28, 2 August 2013 (CDT)


(Glancing over the page in case there's something I can suggest.)<br>
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On the above (topmost) matter, I would agree that 'Assent' ((or a different-language equivalent)) (as in 'to accede') most fits the context, namely 'agreeing to conditions' (of a game).  However, a recurring trickiness of this fiction is that the author uses a lot of words which are clearly based on existing words, but deliberately warped in some way.  As translators, it thus probably makes sense to represent them phonetically and let readers draw their own conclusions (and/or have fun trying to guess the origins) rather than concealing that aspect of the reading experience.  Putting one's own guesses about the origins in the terminology page (and/or optionally in a note when a word first appears) is likely also reasonable.<br>
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'The Late King' might be '亡き王' or similar, something which directly indicates death in the term.  For '先王', how about 'The previous King'?  In this case, he's presumably the previous king because he died, but if a king retired instead the same term would presumably be used.<br>
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For 'クラミー', if there's no canon romanisation how about 'Kuramie'?  My clearest impression is that the lengthened Ee sound at the end should be represented, and this conveniently matches with the end of Stephanie's name.  For the C->Ku, there's it's just an aesthetic impression that both 'Cramy' and 'Cramie' somehow look like male names (and sound somewhat craven?), whereas Kuramie gives a more female and elegant impression.  If there's a more fitting European-style female first name, though, that would of course be better.  (Though she was admittedly not raised in the human kingdom--though then again, I'm not sure where she was named.)<br>
*"Kuramie" seems to Japanese for the setting (especially since the Werebeasts are overly Japanese) and her last name. Cramy is an actual name although masculine, but it's still better than "Clammy" or the variants with K's and Ie's. That said, I don't really like any the above names and would love inspiration on what else it could be. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 16:21, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::An excellent point regarding the Werebeasts.  As with Stephanie though, I'm fairly certain the first name in this format (with a clear '・') is the given name, rather than the family name.  What else could possibly fit...  hmmm...  something using 'Q' perhaps...  or maybe not...  what about 'Curamie'?  Feminine-looking without being overtly Japanese-style. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 21:50, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::*I meant クラミー's last name is ツェル. Possibly intended to be a German last name. Curamie could work, but I find very little examples of it being a real name. Not that it can't be, it just makes me more hesitant. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 22:23, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::::Ahh, I see.  |  If there are (German?) examples of girls with the name 'Cramy' then there's no problem, but if not then if possible I would find it less disconcerting to see a made-up name that only girls would use rather than a real name that only boys use.  (At least until a more accurate understanding of the author's intention is alighted upon.) -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 02:04, 6 August 2013 (CDT)
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For 'ジブリール', again to represent the lengthened Ee sound (and make sound more feminine), perhaps Jibreel?  I somehow find myself pulled towards 'Gibreel' for the 'giblets' similarity, but it seems it could be misread as ギブリール.  I also considered Jibriel/Gibriel but those could be misread as ジブリエル/ギブリエル.<br>
*I used actual translation to think up her name. Several places and even translations reference "ジブリール" as being a variation of Gabriel, which is why I went with it. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 16:21, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::Ahh, interesting.  I misunderstood and didn't realise that Jibril was an accepted spelling.  Checking for any instances of 'Jibreel', pages such as this ( wikiislam.net/wiki/Angel_Jibreel ) are curious; the sections use 'Jibreel', but the quotes use 'Jibril'.  Though part of me still feels that Jibreel would be clearer phonetically, the larger number of Google results for Jibril than Jibreel is compelling, and I acknowledge it as very likely the better choice.  *nods* -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 21:50, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
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For 'Priestess', a more widely-accepted English equivalent is 'Shrine Maiden'--but that said, 'Priestess' might indeed be most apt for her status as a leader (while not straying from the meaning of the term).  It should be fine to choose the one and reject the other, as long as the decision is made with both in mind.<br>
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For 'テト', I'm inclined to favour 'Teto' over 'Tet' both because it's the closer direct phonetic representation of the name(, and sounds slightly better to me), and because when the Japanese represent words like 'Cut' (as in hair) or  'Set' (as in a set menu), they represent them as 'カット' or 'セット'.  By the same process, 'Tet' would plausibly be 'テット', and the only clear reason to prefer 'Tet' to 'Teto' is to try to make it sound like Set (as in the Egyptian deity), for which there doesn't seem to be a connection.<br>
*I just assumed he went with the "Tet" from "Tetris (テトリス)," since God of games being connected to probably the first major influential game seemed logical.  Both Tet and Teto sound Egyptian to me anyway. I'm fine with either, I just wanted to avoid blatant Japanese names. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 16:21, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::Ahh.  *had not considered that line of thought*  If thinking of possible reasons that a Tetris reference wouldn't fit, all Teto's associations seem to be with multi-player games rather than single-player games; even down to the markings on his clothes, they're card suits rather than Tetris blocks or similar.  Of course, Chess is the game which most appears in conjunction with him. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 21:50, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
:::Edit--Upon checking the remembered (manga) illustration, possible counter-evidence is the Rubix cube earring.  (I was also surprised to find that, as far as I could see, there's no illustration of him in the--no, wait, there is one in the second volume of the Novel, and that one also has the Rubix cube.) -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 22:02, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::::(Though entirely unrelated--while I find the depictions of Shiro to be wonderful, NGNL_V1_213.jpg is somehow incredibly squee-inducing.  Come to think of it, Shiro's reaction to the Tokyo-like city in Vol3 too...  but the contrast in NGNL_V1_213.jpg is so great as compared to NGNL_V1_005.jpg for instance...  ahh, so much wonderfulness.) -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 22:10, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
:::*"Tetr-" means four of something anyway; is he ever associated with "four"? If not, like I said, name change for him really doesn't bother me. 
:::::Other than the card suit decorations, not that I've noticed so far.  If any number, probably '16', as in the sixteen races and the sixteen chess pieces on one side.  --Come to think of it, was it that the pawns were the top-eight 'physical races' and the non-pawns the bottom-eight 'spiritual races'..?  Hmm.  (And the 1-ranked race/existence might be the 'King'...  I wonder if Jibril's race's piece is a Bishop...)  Ah, but the Rules are 10 rather than 16, so that's more a number specific to Chess than specific to him.  In any case, I haven't noticed a connection between him and the number 4. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 02:04, 6 August 2013 (CDT)
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This may be straying too far into personal interpretation, but for 'Disboard', how about 'This Board' instead?  --but since there's no '・' between the two parts, that probably actually is going too far.  Uuu.  By a similar line of thought, tempted to represent 'オーシェンド' as 'Oceaned'.  For that one though, there may be no better representation, unless representing directly as 'Ooshend' or similar.  Ah, for '東部連合', probably 'Eastern Union'.  The 'Union' term choice is based on '連合王国' (United Kingdom) and 'ヨーロッパ連合' (European Union).<br>
:Edit--Reached 'Old Deus' below, and the lack of a '・' there has tipped the scales in my mind.  I after all maybe do want to semi-strongly suggest that 'Disboard' be 'This Board', especially as there's probably no other katakana way that 'This' would be represented.  Reminded a little of humans calling this planet 'The Earth' (or 'this planet', for that matter).  Ah, there's also that 'Dys' as in 'Dystopia', or even 'Dis' as in 'Disconcerting' or similar doesn't seem to fit with 'Board' in any way for this context.
*Only reason I didn't translate オーシェンド is because I couldn't think of a way to keep "Ocean" and portray the difference with オーシャン. I'm fine with Eastern Union, I just left that in JP to encourage others to toss in their input anyway. And the only reason I said "Dis", as in disconnected, was because "Board" is an English word and I'm not fond of mashing two languages together and "This Board" isn't all that great of a name for a world. It could be "Dys" as in "dysfunctional" though; never thought of it. --[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 16:21, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::(It wouldn't be two languages mashed together, though...)  I personally like the idea of referring to one's world as a board (especially given the giant Chess pieces strewn upon it for use in a game with Teto), but that's understandably a matter of taste.  ('This' (ディス) rather than 'The' (ザ) because, unlike the Earth, there are lots of other smaller mortal-made boards used for games.) -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 21:50, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
::*I know it wouldn't be two languages; I meant more of a 'I bet I could find ディス meant something else more fitting in another language.' But I didn't know he liked giant chess, so it makes This Board seem more likely, but it would still be nice if the author released a dictionary book or something. Depending on how it's supposed to be interpreted, [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dis- dis] could still fit, though. Like since dis- can mean a reversal of a word, and a board is normally something they would never actually be on, the world is revered in that it's a giant board they are always a part of. Do they ever poke fun at the world's name? —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]])
::::Agreed on the dictionary book idea, something explaining how he chose all the katakana (including certain names). -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 02:04, 6 August 2013 (CDT)
::::Edit:  Ah, forgot the last question.  Though it would make understanding easier, I unfortunately don't remember the name being poked fun at. -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 03:05, 6 August 2013 (CDT)
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Though very minor, perhaps a representation of '発見' in the 8th rule as 'discovered' rather than 'detected'.  There are cases where a person has clearly noticed ('detected') that there's some sort of cheating going on, but can't declare foul unless the specific means is proven ('discovered').  For instance, 'detection' of cheating can be done by seeing your cards are clearly suspicious, but the 'discovery' of catching you in the act of taking one from your sleeve (or otherwise discovering you had cards in your sleeve (specifically), and declaring that) would be necessary to invoke the 8th rule.<br>
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For 'unconditionally everlasting', perhaps 'absolutely unchanging'.  'unconditionally everlasting' would perhaps be 'mujouken koujou' or similar, rather than 'zettai fuhen'.  Then again, it seems 'fuhen' can be used to mean 'everlasting', but that's a secondary extrapolation due to its components' meaning as 'unchanging'.<br>
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For the tenth rule, perhaps 'Everyone should' -> 'Let's all'...  maybe 'Let's all play nicely'?  Teto himself is able to participate (in the form of the biggest game of all), and with 'shimashou' 'should' is perhaps a little too strong...  the lack of the word 'game' in the sentence also gives a little leeway with wording.  Trying to think about something which sounds natural to say to a group of children, either as one of them or as a supervising adult.  Maybe 'Let's all play nicely with each other', or (maybe better) 'Let's all play nicely together'?  (Colloquially speaking, this should work whether or not Teto is including himself.)<br>
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This isn't a suggestion, but laughing at myself that I didn't realise the Dhampir katakana, despite being familiar with the word.  *amusement*<br>
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('Imanity' feels as though it should be 'Humanity', even though it definitely is not...  ah well.)<br>
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Those are probably the main thoughts I have for the moment.  Good luck, all translators! -[[User:Multipartite|Multipartite]] ([[User talk:Multipartite|talk]]) 13:37, 4 August 2013 (CDT)
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セーレーン／セイレーン - is the normal Japanese for "Siren" as in mythology.<br>
サイレン - is the normal Japanese word for "Siren" as in a klaxon.<br>
Just wanted to point out that the foot-note on the main page is incorrect in reasoning for choosing the Greek term "Seiren/Seirenes" ([[Special:Contributions/71.202.96.194|71.202.96.194]])
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セイレーン is the most common spelling of Siren, yes. It's still derived from the Greek version of the word and the author played with the spelling with the whole セーレーン thing, even if it essentially is exactly the same thing. That said, サイレン, while less common, is an [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%BB%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3 acceptable] [http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/86010/m0u/ form] of the mythological Siren still. I wasn't aware of the standards in the words' usage back when I wrote that, but I still prefer the Greek version due the variations with the other races, like Giants being Gigants instead.

Not that it matters since none of the translators seem interested in maintaining, correcting, or updating the terminology page, let alone keeping the terminology consistent. —[[User:EnigmaticRepose|EnigmaticRepose]] ([[User talk:EnigmaticRepose|talk]]) 17:33, 22 June 2014 (CDT)