Talk:Seikai no Senki:Volume4 Prologue

Duo: Hey all (well, everyone form The Abh Nation, anyway, not sure if anyone else is working on this at all), I finally caught up with the series and am all set to make my TRIUMPHANT return to the editor's chair! *Sounds trumpets* But anyway, yeah, psyched to be able to help with this at last. I'm creating this page in the interests of proposing whatever thoughts I have before just going out and making changes, because I imagine there will be times when I'd like to ask someone who can look at the Japanese whether a thought I have changes the original meaning of the sentence, etc. I guess if no one notices/responds I'll just go ahead and use my own judgment, eventually, but I thought I'd do this first.

EDIT--I'm going to make a couple of changes now, I will mark these on the following list but leave them for the ease of any interested parties.

So first thought--do we like having the prologue in present tense? I find it a bit awkward a lot of the time, but if it's accurate to the novel I guess we may as well leave it. It does seem weird for a prologue of all things to be in present, especially since the next chapter swaps over into past tense, but anyway, I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

Second point--Um... how... RAWR are we going to be about "correct" vs. phonetic Baronh in this? I realize I may be in the minority preferring the latter, but I guess I don't see the point in romanizing a language with its own alphabet if you then need a pronunciation key to make sense of it. Just a thought. Anyway, on to specifics--

(The following change has been made) "Perhaps in ancient times, countless nations all had different ways of doing things."

>Suggested> "Perhaps, in ancient times, different nations all had their own ways of doing things."

--I think "countless" is a weird modifier to use like this; it doesn't sound very good. I think my wording flows a bit better while keeping the same idea.

"However, for The Humankind Empire of Abh, the imperial vessel is always designed so that the emperor can command a battle at the frontlines."

--Should "is" be "was" here? Or is that just my preference for past tense coming through? "Is" sounds more like what you would say to someone in this context, "was" sounds more like prose, to me, and since this is sort of a historical perspective... *shrugs*

"The ship Ramage is aboard now is a Kau class patrol ship with the design specifications of a flagship."

--Can someone clarify a bit what this entails, exactly? It seems like we're saying it's one kind of ship and then instantly saying it was designed like another kind of ship entirely--I know that Seikai is pretty awful for technobabble about ships in particular, but can someone explain what this statement amounts to to me?

---On a general side note: Should we not replace "Emperor" with "Empress" as long as we're talking about Ramage?

"Not taken into consideration the condition of other fleets, at least the ones in the Star Force, soldiers in the frontline most want to have a place as spacious and luxurious as the commander's quarters. Although the emperor’s quarters on the ship is not very fancy, the ship’s crew still puts up a lot exquisite decorations."

--Phew, this is an awkward one. Lemme see what I can come up with...

>Suggested> "Other fleets notwithstanding, within the Star Force, most frontline soldiers wished their quarters were as spacious and luxurious as the commander's. Although the emperor's (empress'?) quarters on the ship are not very fancy, they were still decorated exquisitely.

--Does that come close enough to preserving the Japanese? I had to sort of guess at what some of first sentence was talking about.

(The following change has been made) "Despite this, to an emperor that has to shoulder an empire of more than a trillion citizens; to have such a living quarter is just way too simple and unadorned."

>Suggested> "Despite this, for an emperor who has to shoulder the burden of more than a trillion citizens, such living quarters must seem simple and unadorned."

--I added "seemed" because I think if we use a definite statement the next sentence, saying how the room seems like paradise, undercuts this one. I'm also not sure if this really needs to be its own paragraph. I had a little trouble with getting the flow right here, may need to come back to this one.

(The following change has been made) "Therefore a place that allows for one to enjoy some peace and quiet is very precious. It would be even better if this precious time would not be disturbed by urgent reports; however this kind of wishful thinking nevertheless is still too luxurious."

>Suggested> "Therefore, any place that allows one to enjoy some peace and quiet is very precious. It would be even better if this precious time were not disturbed by urgent reports--but that would be too much of a luxury to hope for."

--Cleaned up the first sentence's wording, tried to make the second sentence flow a bit better without relying on a cliche ("A luxury they couldn't afford" came to mind, but I'd rather not use it). Would have liked to not reuse the word "precious" but I didn't know what to substitute for it.

"At this moment, the floors shook signaling that the ship has securely docked (with the funeral hall)."

>Suggested> "At that moment, the floors shook, signaling that the ship had docked."

--Not sure if I just switched into past tense there or what... it seems to read a bit more naturally, but it might be out of place if we keep everything else in the present tense.

"When the doors open, she saw her attendants on mobile platforms who have seemingly awaited her for a good amount of time."

>Suggested> "When the doors open, she is greeted by the sight of her attendants, standing on mobile platforms, where they had apparently been waiting for some time."

--Tried to fix the tense-conflict and also clean things up. Changed "sees" to "she is greeted by the sight of" because I was having trouble finding a decent word flow using "sees," and this way we get to add a sense of seeing something that wasn't previously visible.

(The following change has been made--the removal of "to bow") "“Your Majesty”, the attendants respectfully lowered their heads to bow to the emperor."

--I think we can get rid of "to bow," in this sentence. "Respectfully lowered their heads" means "bowed," so the second bit is redundant. However we've switched into past tense here, which is one of my concerns with using present tense--it's hard to maintain because past tense is the natural way to tell a story, in most cases.

"Ramage nodded in acknowledgement as she got a mobile platform. This is how the emperor left her paradise."

--"Got on a mobile platform," I would think. And seriously, we need to start using "empress" if we're going to use a female pronoun in the same sentence. Also, is that second sentence really what the Japanese says? It's a little... I think it may be trying to hard, but hey. Maybe we can come up with a wording for it that's a little less... thrown in your face.

"Even though she is still on the mobile platform, Ramage still cannot stop pondering – perhaps somewhere in planer space another funeral is taking place, a funeral that is unable to be held in a funeral hall."

>Suggested> "Even as she floated past them, Ramage couldn't stop from wondering - perhaps somewhere in planar space another funeral is (was?) taking place, a funeral that couldn't be held in a funeral hall."

--"Even though she is still on the mobile platform" was just an awkward reminder of exactly what's going on that we shouldn't need. I opted for "floated past them" as an alternate action to keep things moving, since it doesn't seem like her passing them by is mentioned later. Also, should be "planar space" or the English novel's "Plane Space." "Planer" is a type of tool, "planar" is "having the properties of a plane."

(The following change has been made) "No matter how many people think this train of thought is old-fashioned, to a soldier in the Star Force, their ship is their best coffin. Perhaps some people feel that they are forced to have so many people in one coffin is a big drawback, but their numbers are few at best. The majority of the people in the Star Force think that to die together with family is a worthy reason to celebrate."

>Suggested> "No matter how many people say that it's an old-fashioned way of thinking, to a soldier in the Star Force, the best choice for a coffin is their ship. Perhaps some feel that it isn't dignified to place so many people in one coffin, but their numbers are few at best. The majority of the people in the Star Force believe that dying together with family should be a cause for celebration."

--Altered wordings where it seemed like it could make things flow better. I changed the word order of ship and coffin because it seemed like a more natural way of building the sentence, and "their ship is their best coffin" makes it sound like the ship's purpose is to serve as a coffin, as opposed to just saying that it's the best choice for the job. Used "it isn't dignified" in place of "is a big drawback," because "drawback" felt mild considering and overly clinical considering the subject matter, and the fact that the people who disagree are likely doing so on emotional grounds. A little bit of inference on my part, I guess, but I think it feels more natural.

"Although nobody went through any grand ceremonies to become sworn brothers and sisters, but when aboard a ship where either everyone lives or everyone dies, then naturally it feels like everyone is family: especially during times of war. Like the current time, the so called "The era of warfare"."

>Suggested> "Although no grand ceremonies were held for shipmates to become sworn brothers and sisters, when the situation aboard a ship is that either everyone lives or everyone dies, naturally it begins to feel like everyone on board is a family--especially during times of war. Like now, the so called "Era of Warfare.""

--Tried to work with the wording, may need to come back and do some more later. Otherwise just cleaned things up a bit.

---

Alright, I'm fading here (still recovering from having wisdom teeth removed, painkillers make things weird), so I think I'm going to leave it at that. In retrospect, I may go ahead and make a few of the more obvious (in my book) changes, but I'll leave everything here for the perusal of anyone else involved. I'll try to get a better grip on the formatting of this site so I can make things a bit clearer when I next come back to this.

Duo: Back, on with the show.

"Before his death, he hadn't taken the concept of "rest" very seriously. Furthermore his nature did not allow him to spend any time with others on trivial matters; even if that other person was the empress."

--Considering changing "trivial matters" to "matters unrelated to work," because "trivial matters" is pretty vague.

"The emperor knows very well, that Shidoryua sometimes finds it difficult to resist the temptation from the flowerbed."

--Um, what does this mean exactly? Anyone?

--Added "Do you have any idea" to the beginning of Ramage's "what sort of occasion this is?" to add to the harshness of tone in the dialogue itself. I'd like to make it sound a bit more natural in English, but was having trouble figuring out how to do so. I considered "Do you have any idea where you are speaking?" but it seems perhaps a bit too far removed.

"“Mere time does not equate to any results.”

“Thus...”"

--I made the assumption here that these are both being said by the ambassador, since it would be odd for Ramage to interrupt herself with the next statement (so I merged it into one paragraph, accordingly). If this isn't the case we need something to clarify here.

Almael

Almael: Prologue: The prologues are often a depiction from the past. Sometimes it's a dialog or speech, as such these should be in present tense. Others are narrative, hence, past tense.

Baronh: Well, I didn't go with phonetic because the japanese is not phonetically fixed as the alphabet, it's too 'flexible'. For me it was more important to keep the word writing consistent as well as the romanization. There are certain visible scheme relation between japanese and baronh, so it's possible to write a program for this, but there are uncertaincies as we don't have access to the baronh handbook by Morioka.

My sense of language is a bit different, I guess that's because I know a bunch, but I'm not really a language person. These are the general state of things you will see throughout the novels.

• sigh* Where is Ryuou when you need him? lol

I'm an OK writer but for these we need someone on the level of true writers.

"Perhaps in ancient times, countless nations all had different ways of doing things."

As I see it 'countless' is used to say that there were numerous nations in the past, and that they all had their own ways. Your version isn't wrong but it's just a generalization and it doesn't say anything in terms of numbers. This is a typical asian data compression and subtility.

"However, for The Humankind Empire of Abh, the imperial vessel is always designed so that the emperor can command a battle at the frontlines."

Good point, I'm struggling myself. I did a quick research/survey. Present tense is used when it is still happening or being done so. Past tense is used when it happened in the past but isn't happening anymore (or when there is no more change happening). So it's present tense.

"The ship Ramage is aboard now is a Kau class patrol ship with the design specifications of a flagship."

It says that it's a normal Kau class ship which received modifications consistent with the specification for a flagship. Better? ^_^ :D As explain in other places: A real flagship needs more room for staff and special systems. Room is created by sacrifying mine spaces, while extra modules are added eg flagship bridge etc.

---On a general side note: Should we not replace "Emperor" with "Empress" as long as we're talking about Ramage?

Ya, do that when it's about her, not when it's generalized.

>Suggested> "Other fleets notwithstanding, within the Star Force, most frontline soldiers wished their quarters were as spacious and luxurious as the commander's. Although the emperor's (empress'?) quarters on the ship are not very fancy, they were still decorated exquisitely.

OK. Use emperor.

"Despite this, to an emperor that has to shoulder an empire of more than a trillion citizens; to have such a living quarter is just way too simple and unadorned."

What it says is that it is a fact that the room is not suited for someone ruling over an empire with a trillion of subjects. Go again with what your sense tells you.

>Suggested> "Therefore, any place that allows one to enjoy some peace and quiet is very precious. It would be even better if this precious time were not disturbed by urgent reports--but that would be too much of a luxury to hope for."

Any place might be too much, I mean you don't want to sit in some tight uncomfortable place or so. Well, I don't think there is a better word for precious. I like the second part.

"At this moment, the floors shook signaling that the ship has securely docked (with the funeral hall)." >Suggested> "At that moment, the floors shook, signaling that the ship had docked."

Hmm,I think both work because it shook when the ship settles in, and at the same time finished hooking up to the dock. >suggested> "At that moment, the floors shook, indicating that the ship had docked."

"When the doors open, she saw her attendants on mobile platforms who have seemingly awaited her for a good amount of time." >Suggested> "When the doors open, she is greeted by the sight of her attendants, standing on mobile platforms, where they had apparently been waiting for some time."

OK.

(The following change has been made--the removal of "to bow") "“Your Majesty”, the attendants respectfully lowered their heads to bow to the emperor." --I think we can get rid of "to bow," in this sentence. "Respectfully lowered their heads" means "bowed," so the second bit is redundant. However we've switched into past tense here, which is one of my concerns with using present tense--it's hard to maintain because past tense is the natural way to tell a story, in most cases.

I agree with your view. However, there is a difference between bowing with the head and upper body. So I would say they bowed their heads instead of 'lower'. I'm not sure about the use of the word 'bow', though, that is in terms of association with head or upper body. That's why the mentioning of head should be there.

"Ramage nodded in acknowledgement as she got a mobile platform. This is how the emperor left her paradise."

Yes to 'got on' and yes to 'empress'. Like other asian languages people aren't discriminated like in western languages. So yes it refers to her. When referencing to many different people after another this can cause confusion when the contents are not exact or left out. This is the reason for the emperor/empress problem.

"Even though she is still on the mobile platform, Ramage still cannot stop pondering – perhaps somewhere in planer space another funeral is taking place, a funeral that is unable to be held in a funeral hall." >Suggested> "Even as she floated past them, Ramage couldn't stop from wondering - perhaps somewhere in planar space another funeral is (was?) taking place, a funeral that couldn't be held in a funeral hall."

Hm, it says:~while she was on it she thought. Yes, it's Plane Space. This is one of Animejunkie's consistent writing so you can change them all. Planar space is how it's written in japanese/chinese.

(The following change has been made) "No matter how many people think this train of thought is old-fashioned, to a soldier in the Star Force, their ship is their best coffin. Perhaps some people feel that they are forced to have so many people in one coffin is a big drawback, but their numbers are few at best. The majority of the people in the Star Force think that to die together with family is a worthy reason to celebrate." >Suggested> "No matter how many people say that it's an old-fashioned way of thinking, to a soldier in the Star Force, the best choice for a coffin is their ship. Perhaps some feel that it isn't dignified to place so many people in one coffin, but their numbers are few at best. The majority of the people in the Star Force believe that dying together with family should be a cause for celebration."

'Choice' sounds as if they have a choice, I would say it's the best they can hope for aside from a real coffin. 'drawback' refers to 'they have to share it with others' I think. I don't think it refers to dignity. Anyone else think so?

"Although nobody went through any grand ceremonies to become sworn brothers and sisters, but when aboard a ship where either everyone lives or everyone dies, then naturally it feels like everyone is family: especially during times of war. Like the current time, the so called "The era of warfare"." >Suggested> "Although no grand ceremonies were held for shipmates to become sworn brothers and sisters, when the situation aboard a ship is that either everyone lives or everyone dies, naturally it begins to feel like everyone on board is a family--especially during times of war. Like now, the so called "Era of Warfare.""

"it begins to feel" -> it develops a feeling of family ...

"Before his death, he hadn't taken the concept of "rest" very seriously. Furthermore his nature did not allow him to spend any time with others on trivial matters; even if that other person was the empress." --Considering changing "trivial matters" to "matters unrelated to work," because "trivial matters" is pretty vague.

I think it's general because 'he is a person who doesn't care about anything else' so to say.

"The emperor knows very well, that Shidoryua sometimes finds it difficult to resist the temptation from the flowerbed." --Um, what does this mean exactly? Anyone?

Umh,...it means he couldn't resist to take a nap like Napoleon, doesn't want to waste time on sleeping.

--Added "Do you have any idea" to the beginning of Ramage's "what sort of occasion this is?" to add to the harshness of tone in the dialogue itself. I'd like to make it sound a bit more natural in English, but was having trouble figuring out how to do so. I considered "Do you have any idea where you are speaking?" but it seems perhaps a bit too far removed.

Well, she doesn't speak rude in anyway. If it sounds dignified the better.

"“Mere time does not equate to any results.” “Thus...”" --I made the assumption here that these are both being said by the ambassador, since it would be odd for Ramage to interrupt herself with the next statement (so I merged it into one paragraph, accordingly). If this isn't the case we need something to clarify here.

No. It's Ramaj and the ambassador then she cuts him off. (God, it took me quite some time to find the place in the japanese text) Ramaj says that the amount of time spend with someone doesn't equate to advancement in relationship. Dunno what the ambassador wanted to say. Then she lectures him that even an emperor isn't allowed to criticise his subject on how they manage their responsibility.

Almael 14:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)