Editing Talk:Log Horizon

== About honorific ==

Can we just use normal Japanase honorific such as -san,-sama, onii-chan, etc -- [[User:Endo|Endo]] ([[User talk:Endo|talk]]) 08 November 2013

:I was going to bring up something similar in the forums to get the other editors' opinions. I will ask about this as well. -- [[User:Guardianknight|Guardianknight]] ([[User talk:Guardianknight|talk]]) 07:25, 8 November 2013 (CST)

::We need someone to crosscheck with JP ver (TL-kun translate this from C -> E) -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 07:48, 8 November 2013 (CST)

Just asking if this project are approved, and who is the Project Administrator, Project Supervisor and Project Leader: ? -- [[User:X-Rates|X-Rates]]  00:44, 10 November 2013 (CST)

:I doubt we need them for now. The translator isn't from BT, I don't think we can just "supervise other community translation" like the translation were ours -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 03:01, 10 November 2013 (CST)

Has there been any consensus about using Japanese honorifics, or nicknames? For example, Nyanta likes to call Shiroe "Shiroechi," and Soujirou as "Soujicchi" Would the translator mind? Also, I recently noticed that the punctuation for sentences could be different in the Japanese version. Would the translator mind if we tried to be consistent?

Also, the Japanese LN liked to consistently put terms in brackets like so: <Debauchery Tea Part> or <D.D.D>. How would the translator or others (but mainly the translator) feel about doing the same? -- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]] 09:48, 10 November 2013‎ (CST)

:TL-kun give us the permission to do whatever we want to his translation -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 03:01, 10 November 2013 (CST)

::Really? Fantastic! I'll try and do this in phases/separate editing session, from least objectionable to most. That way, if people really have a problem with one phase of changes, they can undo them in one go. Hope that's ok with everyone?

::1)Japanese honorifcs/nicknames. Done with (v1-4, v5c1-4). Wouldn't mind some feedback if people like this, or would prefer the original. Naturally, the most important opinion belongs to the TL, as I sure as fun can't do what he/she did, and I don't want to step on any toes.
:::Saw some subsequent edits to the honorifics that I made, and just thought I should point out that I'm sticking to how Mamire spelled it. Also to ask that people don't just change the names randomly. Naotsugu calls Shiroe "Shiro" fairly often. It's not a typo, I think it comes from knowing each other in real life. -- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]]

::2)Matching sentences/punctuation to Japanese version. I think a number of the really long compound sentences may have been the result of Japanese->Chinese. On further reflection, that's basically saying I intend to review every line of the translation. I dunno what I was smoking, but it must have been good. Still, I opened my big mouth...my cross to bear, I suppose.
::-- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]] 12:55, 11 November 2013‎ (CST)

:::Really don't need to get updating the figures here since all changes are logged anyway; I see something new has been posted in this talkpage and come in looking for new discussion but no new timestamps makes things confusing. On topic tho, like the changes so far in terms of honorifics/nicknames. More recently, not so sure about seeing numbers like twenties changed to 20s; that's just my preference you don't need to go changing it back.--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 20:16, 6 February 2014 (CST)

== Novel Illustrations ==

Seems someone from AnimeSuki already has all the illustrations up to volume 6.

Link to the message post: [http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?s=65005d4bb56f58b9836e2ecf8c18ef9a&p=4865516#post4865516 Link]

Location of the novel illustrations: [http://imgur.com/a/BMYhZ/all Link] --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 08:34, 10 November 2013 (CST)

Would anyone object to me trying to put the images from the novel into the approximate place where they belong in the chapters? I can only do that for the translated parts of volume 1 (its the only one i have a copy of the original work for reference)? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 14:44, 1 December 2013 (CST)

:I dunno about anyone else, but I don't see a problem with it. Just so you know, I've put in hidden tags showing where each page starts, for volumes 2-3, and 4 pt 1. So that should give you an idea where each image went in the original volume.  -- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]] 15:29, 1 December 2013 (CST)

::Ah, I may take a stab at doing some of that then. Out of curoisoty, are those page numbers based on the Japanese or Chinese books? Is a format similar to how they do it with Mahouka okay?([[Mahouka_Koukou_no_Rettousei:Volume_1_Chapter_1]]) [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 15:44, 1 December 2013 (CST)

Incidentally, I just checked on the illustration page numbers listed in for volume 1 and a lot of them were off by a few pages (I fixed them to match the paper copy), but maybe someone with a physical copy of books 2-5 should double-check the rest? Also, I just noticed we're using the cover of the manga for the series image, should we perhaps swap that with the cover of volume 1? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 03:45, 3 December 2013 (CST)

::I can vouch for most of the images I uploaded in volumes 2-5 being in the right places; some illustrations in volume 5 could be in the wrong places but educatated guessing of where they should be according to the missing pages I have in my raws, is how I deduced where the rest go. Another note image files in volume 1 now need to be moved/renamed to the correct pages. I'll do that when I get back and can double check the illustrations, the double pages with page numbers at the bottom are correct.--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 14:05, 3 December 2013 (CST)

== Image fonts ==

Anyone know the font used in the translated images? Thinking about editing the annex ones. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 09:39, 14 November 2013 (CST)

:Anime Ace : [http://www.1001fonts.com/anime-ace-font.html Link] -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 11:40, 14 November 2013 (CST)

== Brackets ==

About those <> brackets in vol 2 chapter 4, it just seems out of place in full text because only that chapter has that brackets but others didn't. I create a new draft page for experiment uses to avoid such problems. : [[Log Horizon: Volume 2 Chapter 4 Draft]]

Isn't there any feedback from other editor about the use of <> brackets? -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 11:35, 14 November 2013 (CST)

:I only did it in v2c4p1+2, to see what people thought about how it looked, versus the previous version. And then those two parts in particular because I think those are among the more bracket-heavy parts, with all the guild names. -- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]] 11:53, 14 November 2013‎ (CST) 

::For my point of view, the brackets is unnecessary, since the english reader (some of them and probably majority of them) is not accustomed to <> brackets. The english translation is mainly for english reader so it's pointless to copy japanese style for using 「」 brackets.
::Although for names and honorifics, I prefer to follow japanese ways. 
::By the way, this is off topic, but could you use "<big><nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki></big>" in the end of your statement so others will know that you're the one who speaking -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 12:15, 14 November 2013 (CST)

:::I agree with LiTTleDRAgo, I feel the use of brackets is not totally necessary. Maybe for some special terms ('the bag of holding' comes to mind as an example) but with the amount of times that guild names actually show up in the text, it begins to feel cluttered. In terms of keeping to the original text, honorifics and furigana (even tho the use of furigana like <br><br>{{furigana|Druid|Forest Mage}} <br><br>  {{furigana|Guardian|Protector Warrior}} <br><br> {{furigana|Enchanter|Support Mage}} <br><br> can appear more cluttered :S) are higher in terms of priority to me. --[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 21:04, 14 November 2013 (CST)

Alright, I think that's a clear majority then. LiTTleDRAgo, if you can get rid of that draft with the brackets? (I dunno how to go about it in a clean way) -- [[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 23:43, 14 November 2013 (CST)

== Updated annex monster description images to English ==

I don't want to put them up yet without having someone look at them first see if looks OK and I didn't happen to misspell something.

[http://puu.sh/5iwE2.png Log_Horizon_Vol03_326-327.png], [http://puu.sh/5iwGk.png Log_Horizon_Vol03_324-325.png], [http://puu.sh/5iwHz.png Log_Horizon_Vol03_322-323.png] --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 17:17, 14 November 2013 (CST)

:I think you should overwrite the level number to Anime Ace as well, it's kind of out of place there. Also, the font color in the rank names & places (Normal, Party, Raid 1, Dungeon, Waterfront, etc) should be very dark grey like in the raws (it's hard to read because the color blends with the word ''Rank:'' & ''Found In:'')
:And you misspell at Mad Arousal Golem's rank, it's not '''Normal''' but '''Raid 1''' -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 20:37, 14 November 2013 (CST)

:I had a go at editing the descriptions in the annex chapters, so go there for the updated text. Mad Carousal Golem's description still reads weird (the curse destroying the surrounding facilities doesn't sound right) so you may want to avoid editing that image for a while.--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 20:46, 14 November 2013 (CST)

::I'll work on them this weekend. I'll also post the psd file which has all of the annex images in the volume 3 for anyone else who want to tweak them some more after my edits.
::--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 00:38, 16 November 2013 (CST)

Did the changes to the images please take a look again to see if it meets everyone's expectations. Drowzycow I added in the updated text for the mad carousel golem but like you said I'll wait for you to do a bit more editing on the wiki.

[http://puu.sh/5mdR7.png 1], [http://puu.sh/5mdUj.png 2], [http://puu.sh/5mdDi.png 3] --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 11:59, 18 November 2013 (CST)

:I think that's already OK, you can upload them anytime (there are revert button even if there are mistake) -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 15:58, 18 November 2013 (CST)

Speaking of the annex, didn't someone say that they were really "appendix"? Should we change them to that? --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 17:40, 18 November 2013 (CST)
:It's obviously meant to be appendix (It says so in the bottom corner of each appendix page). 2 options; move the pages to the correct pages and delete the redirects (leaving this to those with page deleting powers) OR just relabel the links, leaving the pages as they are (this option may break all the fancy navbars tho which is why I left it as is, since it's a relatively minor thing).--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 18:33, 18 November 2013 (CST)

Is it possible to get one of you guys to place the images for volume 4 in the place where the text is like the rest of the other novels? I would do it but I don't have the actual LN in hand to figure where they go. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 21:56, 25 November 2013 (CST)

== Missing lines of text ==

So...something I've noticed is that sometimes there are missing lines/text. I've tried to translate them when I could, but other times, we're missing entire pages' worth of stuff. Almost 6 pages in volume 4, chapter 1 alone. Should we leave them alone, or is there someone in contact with the translator, who could ask if he/she might be willing to translate those? --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 09:39, 27 November 2013 (CST)

:Did you look in pastebin to see if this isn't a bad copy and paste when transferring it on Baka-Tsuki? --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 10:35, 27 November 2013 (CST)

::I checked one instance, and the text was not there either. Besides, I'm pretty sure when whoever brings it over to BT, they just wait until the translator finishes the entire chapter before copying-pasting everything in one large chunk. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 10:39, 27 November 2013 (CST)

:Can you post those missing text at forum? Maybe someone with great insight will translate those text -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 11:27, 27 November 2013 (CST)

::Not sure how I could do that. All I have are pictures of the pages, and I believe there're rules against posting up the raws. S'why I marked the places missing with "--missing text/line--" in the story (tagged so that they don't show up normally). I'm hoping between those and the page numbers, it should be relatively easy for someone with the novel to find the stuff. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 11:34, 27 November 2013 (CST)

:::You can extract those images to text with OCR or text recognition software (personally, I use this: <nowiki>www~mediafire~com/?ykvn1njkoo4</nowiki>) -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 11:57, 27 November 2013 (CST)

::::Ok, I'll give it a shot the next time I shut down my computer. (Happens less often than you would think.) In the meantime, anyone know about the original translator? --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 14:02, 27 November 2013 (CST)

::::Ok, so SimpleOCR needs Microsoft.net framework 1.1. Does it specifically have to be 1.1, or will a later version like 4.something work? --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 20:17, 30 November 2013 (CST)

:::::Yeah, it specificially needs 1.1 ([http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3&displaylang=en Microsoft .NET framework update 1.1] + [http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/b/4/8b4addd8-e957-4dea-bdb8-c4e00af5b94b/NDP1.1sp1-KB867460-X86.exe SP1]), also [http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/3/e/73ec6013-6db6-4789-857b-73dc0a831d64/langpack.exe japanese language pack] -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 09:19, 6 December 2013 (CST)

::::::Well, installed all of those, but it doesn't seem to work. Just throws back a chime and an error message. Shazbot. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 12:52, 8 December 2013 (CST)

:::That's weird, what is your OS? Maybe you should do a google search for a free OCR according to your OS -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 01:27, 8 December 2013 (CST)

Doesn't look like Skythewood is taking a break on pastebin. He is already posted 2 chapter of volume 5. See if you can hit him up on twitter: https://twitter.com/skythewood because he mentions about edits you can contact him there.
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 14:22, 27 November 2013 (CST)

:Ah....I don't use Twitter. Social media, especially ones that only mean anything when you have a smartphone, are anathema to me. Also, because I don't have a smart phone. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 14:32, 27 November 2013 (CST)

::Tell me the locations of the missing pages where they sit at what parts and I'll attempt to contact him about it. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 19:43, 27 November 2013 (CST)

===Missing Text Locations===
Ok, here's what I found so far, also bear in mind that page numbers may be different in Japanese version(mine) from Chinese version (his). I also put up the lines that immediately precede and follow the missing text, to make it easier to find. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 23:11, 27 November 2013 (CST)


vol 2, ch 1

Page 32

Between lines:

:"In simple terms, it lets high-level players play with low-level players by dropping their levels and stats to match the lower level players."

:"Shiroe was an experienced player with deep insights into the game as well as top tier equipment. Using the 'Mentoring' system, Shiroe would be roughly one or two levels better than the twins, which is an ideal level to lead the twins as a mentor."


vol 2, ch 5

End of page 314,

Between lines, the side comment in parentheses.: 

:"Harmonious in his dealings, but once he is set on something, he will do whatever it takes to achieve his goal. The enchanter Shiroe with the nickname he dislikes, 'Black Heart Glasses.'"

:"An apostle of panties, frivolous, witty, and loves to jokes around, the guardian who is like an iron wall Naotsugu."


vol 3, ch 1
Page 63

Between lines, one missing line: 

:"Shiroe has put in a lot of effort before the trip to collect intelligence on the 'League of Freedom Cities Eastal', but that is only from city bars and books. The first-hand information of the nobles' social network rarely flows out to the commoners." 

:"The noises in the hall disappear like a retreating tide, the people near the door separate to either side. A prominent group appears from the door. In the crowd's gentle expectation and soft chatter, 3 ladies appear with their male escorts."


vol 4, ch5

page 315, missing text

between lines:

:"Are you okay?"

:Maryele pressed her temples. She has been using magic non-stop the whole day which makes the her head heavy and numb.

--------------------------
Sorry for not getting back to this sooner but I've twitted him so let's see if he gets back with us. 
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 02:07, 30 November 2013 (CST)

:Rasen, here is the pastebin for the missing items that you've reported. Skythewood went to each one and did a check and wrote in what was missing for ya. http://pastebin.com/ThEzFadJ
:--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 16:17, 30 November 2013 (CST)

::Awesome, I've pasted in the new text. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 20:14, 30 November 2013 (CST)

Could someone ask skythewood about the missing text in volume 4? I wanted to wait until after Christmas to start bothering him again. --~~ (Rasen)

::Ok, added in the missing texts. What remains is apparently stuff not in the chinese novels.

== Volume 5, Chapter 3 ==

There appears to be a mostly complete translation (about 48 of 53 pages?) at [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sd588sQAUtHkvGscRuPWJvVMc2AjIiuNocroEU_ZxNM/edit?pli=1 here], however it appears to be a mixture of various anonymous authors. Do we want to perhaps post a comment there asking if we can post or link their translation once its complete, before all the contributors for that page disappear? I'm not sure what the procedure for that sort of thing is, but given that almost all of the BT translations for Log Horizon have come from skythewood (who mentions the other translation in his twitter), if we don't attempt to secure permission or link, it might be a while before we end up with a translation of that chapter on BT. [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 16:00, 1 December 2013 (CST)

:I tried to ask today but seems that too many people are looking at the file this I cannot see the comments to make a comment. If anyone else can get in to where they be able to see the tool bars please jump at the chance to do it.
:--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 00:11, 2 December 2013 (CST)

::I posed the question in the google doc, near the top. Awaiting a reply... [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 00:29, 2 December 2013 (CST)

It looks like they'll be okay with it, unsure what the next step in this process is... i suppose it would be easiest if one of them posted it, otherwise do we have to contact the project administrator or something? should we also check if they're okay with us editing it, etc...? I'm really quite new here so I don't know what the next step is.... [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 05:27, 2 December 2013 (CST)

:Yup, I saw you post and seen their reply back stating it was alright to be placed on here. Chapter 3 is finished I'm sure we will start adding it soon. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 12:32, 2 December 2013 (CST)

Translation for Log Horizon Volume 5, Chapter 3 has been completed and the group seems to be okay with it being posted and edited on baka-tsuki. I've extracted a copy of just the english text at ( http://pastebin.com/rniNFwuQ ), but I'm unsure as to what the next step is... should we just post that, or do we have to check with the project administrator or something else? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 04:27, 3 December 2013 (CST)

:Your best bet would be to ask LittleDrago (Project super). Although there shouldn't be any problem as rye have given permission, just be sure to give credit on the registration page. :) [[User:All Nighter94|All Night]] ([[User talk:All Nighter94|talk]]) 06:49, 3 December 2013 (CST)

::I pasted the chapter and updated the registration page as well. -- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 12:13, 3 December 2013 (CST)

== Changing Series Cover Image ==

I'd like to change the series cover image to the cover of the first volume of the light novels (its currently from the first volume of the manga), if no one objects? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 19:49, 3 December 2013 (CST)

:While I realize it's not standard practice to use an non-LN image, I personally like the coloured manga cover more. Since it isn't a heavy spoiler image/has a proper caption indicating that's a manga cover, don't really see the harm in leaving it. --[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 21:35, 3 December 2013 (CST)

::I'm curious on how it LN cover looks like. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 17:23, 4 December 2013 (CST)

<div style="float: left; width:100%;">
[[Image: Log Horizon light novel vol.01.jpg|420px|thumb|right|The cover of Log Horizon volume one]]
I personally think the LN cover looks much more awesome than the manga, and that since our focus is exclusively on the LNs it would look more professional to just use the LN cover image. @Shido, the cover looks like the image on the right, when the settings for the series cover are applied to it.
[[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 20:19, 4 December 2013 (CST)
</div>

:They're both equally great looking covers, although I'm leaning toward the manga cover because of the more vivid colors, and sharper details. [[User:All Nighter94|All Night]] ([[User talk:All Nighter94|talk]]) 20:59, 4 December 2013 (CST)

::Seeing as how we have the LN covers up next to their chapters, I don't really see a reason to have the same image twice on the same page. Now, if ever they decide to take the LN covers off, then I think you have a case. --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 21:28, 4 December 2013 (CST)

== Volume 5 Chapter 3 non-English symbols.   ==

I'm going to change some of these symbols that are used in other languages to what English Grammar typically uses. If no one has any issues with it.

Example:
「Libra Festival」 to (Libra Festival)

〈Adventurers〉 to <Adventurers> --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 17:30, 4 December 2013 (CST)

:for () brackets, it already used for some other meaning (such as thoughts). I personally prefer 「」 changed to "" and delete 〈〉 to match skythewood's translation 
:-- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 17:46, 4 December 2013 (CST)

==Project Page Layout==
I'm thinking to change the project page layout, does anyone have a feedback?
*[http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Log_Horizon&oldid=308289 Old (1 column without furigana)]
*[http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Log_Horizon&oldid=308419 1 column with furigana]
*[http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Log_Horizon&oldid=308427 2 column with furigana]
*[http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Log_Horizon&oldid=308428 2 column if resolution is too small (with furigana)] 
-- [[User:LiTTleDRAgo|LiTTleDRAgo]]  ([[User_talk:LiTTleDRAgo|Talk]]) 07:04, 6 December 2013 (CST)

:Keep it the same as before. Kind of smashed in there currently and not a fan of it. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 10:01, 6 December 2013 (CST)

:Don't mind the double columns, that looks okay but not convinced by the furigana. Like Shido says it looks mashed together, I wouldn't it might just be my tablet but it does look great on the PC either.--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 06:06, 7 December 2013 (CST)

== Volume 1 Page 338-339 image ==

I'm working on this image and cleaning some of the artifacts that I've seen on it. The Japanese words on the top of the grey area anyone know what that says? --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 19:38, 21 December 2013 (CST)

:I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "Elder Tales Class Table" --[[User:Rasen|Rasen]] ([[User talk:Rasen|talk]]) 19:38, 21 December 2013 (CST)

== Term continuity. ==

I'm not a translator or anything, I'm just trying to fix a few grammar errors when I see them (and make the script flow better... I'm also new here, account and forum-wise), but I've been seeing terms which seems as though they should be fixed being phrased in different ways.
* Is it "Elder Tale" or "Elder Tales"?
* Is it "League of Freedom Cities Eastal" or "Free Cities of Eastal League" (I've found at least three variations. As the name of a country, shouldn't this be somewhat constant?)
* Is "People of the Land" a title/race name, like Human, Elf and Dwarf? It's sometimes typed with first letter capitalization, sometimes without, sometimes used to refer to both plural and singular (for e.g. "she was a people of the land" as opposed to "she was a person of the land").

I hope you don't mind if I standardize the above terms, as well as any similar terms I encounter (I'll be using the first example quoted, because they're the first way the name is brought up).
[[User:Nerazim|Nerazim]] ([[User talk:Nerazim|talk]]) 00:01, 26 December 2013 (CST)

:As far as I know standardizing terms across volumes is quite welcome, so long as meaning isn't changed. You can consult the translator and discuss which standard they'd like. [[User:All Nighter94|All Night]] ([[User talk:All Nighter94|talk]]) 00:29, 26 December 2013 (CST)

:Eastal is the name of the league, so this instance "Free Cities of Eastal League" is wrong.--[[User:KuroiHikari|KuroiHikari]] ([[User_talk:KuroiHikari|Talk]] | ) 01:51, 26 December 2013 (CST)

::Actually, it should either be "League of Free Cities, Eastal" or "Eastal League of Free Cities". I believe "league of free cities" is a similar term to kingdom, empire, dukedom, all of which are political systems (see Hanseatic League). Personally, considering the location of the league, I suspect Eastal is a transliteration of Eastern.
::"People of the land" is how the npc's in Elder Tale were called, to differentiate them from player controlled adventurers. I would suggest for groups, "People of the land be used", 
::while for individuals, "lands(man/person/women)" be used instead. --[[User:Blake77|Blake77]] ([[User talk:Blake77|talk]]) 07:56, 26 December 2013 (CST)

For continuity sake, keep what they have already in Volumes 3 and 4 for the league. These have already been converted to be consistent in these volumes. 
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 20:32, 26 December 2013 (CST)

:I'm pretty sure volume 1's image on pages 4-5 clearly supports "Elder Tales" as the name of the MMORPG, plus it probably flows better that way. [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 21:28, 26 December 2013 (CST)


::::I could have sworn I replied, but I'm not seeing them... I'm rather lazy to type them over, so Thank You (and yes, i agree, where applicable), to the people above...

== Volume 5 Appendices ==

So, I was wondering if we want to /can use the appendices at http://pastebin.com/hpEAm0GW . The doc seems to suggest they are not from skythewood so I don't know if he can grant permission to use them, but its also not clear who translated them, and since they're listed there, I doubt anyone else will translate them. Thoughts? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 00:51, 28 December 2013 (CST)

:If you don't mind once you upload something please be sure to find the all of the TL notes and add reference tags to these. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 16:27, 28 December 2013 (CST)

:For the sake of order I believe it's best to limit who uploads what from the pastebin onto here. We already had an incident on the forums and the translators of Volume 5 chapter 4 wasn't happy about. We don't need to make them anymore angry and deny us from using their translations. Same goes with skythewood pastebin as sometimes he'll put a recent copy of someone's work on his pastebin page in the spirit of good faith. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 16:27, 28 December 2013 (CST)

::ah, i was wondering about the volume 5 chapter 4 thing. I've not been following the forum side so much, but i didn't uploaded it because no one has answered my question about permissions on the google doc and it looked like it wasn't quite complete, although skythewood posted a version of it on his pastebin which said it needed editing, I'm guessing thats where the confusion came from. Usually he labels materials from other sources though (which he did in that case as well). Anyways, as far as i know, I've definitely grabbed the TL notes as well, whenever I've grabbed stuff from skythewood's pages for translations he's completed(which I've only done because he's explicitly stated in the past that his translations can be freely used in his pastebins). Anyways if people are unhappy with us having posted volume 5 chapter 4, perhaps we should remove it or disable it until we can secure permission properly? But definitely, it is a problem if we anger people. (thats part of why I went and asked back before we posted volume 5, chapter 3. ) Anyways, who should we limit the uploads to? (and what do we do if people overzealously bring something over without permission again?) --[[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 00:37, 29 December 2013 (CST)

Can someone confirm that we have permission to have the appendices? (the ones on skythewood's translation of it http://pastebin.com/hpEAm0GW , seem to indicate that the appendices (but not the afterword) were authored by third parties and the discussion under this talk section appears to have been leaning towards "no")? [[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 01:16, 29 December 2013 (CST)

:I'll talk with skythewood tomorrow for that permission later tomorrow. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 01:41, 29 December 2013 (CST)

Permission is given for Volume 5 appendices for map guy's images. 

https://twitter.com/BakaShido/status/417308444413005824
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 09:00, 29 December 2013 (CST)

==Translation updates from skythewood==
It appears he's caught up to his raws, going by this recent tweet. He's a Chinese to English translator, with volume 6 being released in chinese on Jan 9. So unless he uses fan translations expect a slowing down of releases. --[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 05:36, 29 December 2013 (CST)
:No one seems to be updating over here... Since he already has 3 chapters out (last i checked), does anyone mind if i just go ahead and edit-check, then post them? [[User:Nerazim|Nerazim]] ([[User talk:Nerazim|talk]]) 15:57, 19 January 2014 (CST)

:That doesn't seem to be a good idea, since even he thinks those versions are translated from an incomplete/crappy source. It would probably be better to wait for him to get his hands on a more official source. --~~

:Well, I managed to get a Japanese copy, I just really suck with kanji. I was going to get some help from a family member and just compare his translation to my understanding of the original text (because if I translate it myself, it'll take me at least two months of constant work, ignoring studies)... Ah well, waiting does seem to be the better option. [[User:Nerazim|Nerazim]] ([[User talk:Nerazim|talk]]) 15:25, 20 January 2014 (CST)

If someone can get in touch with him, tell him that "Aruraune" should be "Alraune" (a flower humanoid creature).--[[User:Kemm|Kemm]] ([[User talk:Kemm|talk]]) 12:15, 1 February 2014 (CST)

== Epub version. ==

For what is worth, I bound the first chapter into a epub after some work. It was a bit more involved then I like, but I managed to get it down to a process after some work. I used Sigil to create it. There are a number of steps involved, so it isn't just a straight copy and paste. It includes the title image and illustrations, but the chapter images didn't fit very well. I filled out the metadata, and I even added the translators to it. It only took me about 3 hours to wrap up (most of it was figuring things out). If I do any more (which depends on if this is wanted or not), it should take less time.

I was not sure how to go about hosting it, so I upped them it in two different places.

Epub Download Links
*Volume 1: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/80ad4bfa
*Volume 2: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/1ac21645
*Volume 3: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/27321dca
*Volume 4: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/3d5ff1c9

These look very good in something like Moon+, but only okay on something like Sumantra. But that isn't the epub's fault (Sumanta doesn't format intelligently).

I would do 5, but it is pending an edit. I might put the monster files in their own epubs. Volume 4 does have the terminology section, Volume 3 doesn't (at the moment). I might have to go back and redo volume 1.

Note: These are all your work anyway, except for hammering them into the epub format. If you want to host them here, you have my permission (if needed).

[[User:Chasesan|Chase-san]] ([[User talk:Chasesan|talk]]) 18:03, 29 December 2013 (CST)

:It's always good practice for any programmer or person making any epub to validate for any errors. This insures that your file is up to spec and should have the highest compatibility on the multiple readers apps available out there. Can check your files here: http://validator.idpf.org/

:Also I'm a bit curious on why you do not include the chapter profile images at beginning of each chapter? Maybe you have your reasons like the ones you have for the monster files. I'm just a bit picky when it comes to what the author and publisher had originally intended their book to be display as.

:Overall a good effort loads pretty nice.

:--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 18:27, 29 December 2013 (CST)

::I wasn't aware there was a validator for it. I'll see about checking mine, and making a version 2. As for the chapter profile images, the main reason is that they are double page images. Other double pagers I split in two, but those really shouldn't be. I could put in an overly wide image, but I am not 100% sure how to force it to display on it's own (currently only the cover does that).

::But all that will probably have to be tomorrow. If you have other suggestions please let me know.

::[[User:Chasesan|Chase-san]] ([[User talk:Chasesan|talk]]) 18:51, 29 December 2013 (CST)

:::Can say how this is done with Sigil since I don't use it; however, what you can do is use CSS and place the images in a div tag to be used as a way to force a page break before and after the image. In CSS you want to add these two properties to the div element: page-break-after:always; and page-break-before:always;
 
:::--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 19:42, 29 December 2013 (CST)

Sigil is just a epub editing tool. Pretty good for what it does. Makes working with epub fairly intuitive.

Anyway, I fixed a few errors in the epubs. I removed "Part X" from the TOC, I can reverse this if no one likes it, but it was the easiest option to resolve some TOC issues. I recombined the double pages. I still didn't add the chapter images, since I couldn't find a way to get pages to work with my ebook reader. Short of giving them their own document, which may the only option for compatibility. I also redid the images in the first chapter so they are similar in quality to the later chapters.

I personally want to keep the volumes below 1 mb each. For a few reasons. First I like small files. I get positive mental feedback for making files smaller. Second, my upload is slow. So overly large files take a long time to upload. Last, and probably most persuasively, older epub readers have fits with large epub files.

Epub Download Links - Version 2
*Volume 1: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/702508bb
*Volume 2: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/a2a76c4e
*Volume 3: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/74138d19
*Volume 4: http://www.datafilehost.com/d/c5e5eaa1

[[User:Chasesan|Chase-san]] ([[User talk:Chasesan|talk]]) 20:44, 29 December 2013 (CST)

== Possible missing appendices for volume 1 ==

Volume 1 may be missing it's appendices. I'm asking our translator where the last 3 images sit in the book.
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 18:35, 29 December 2013 (CST)

:Yes there is one double page that could act as an appendix that I've not uploaded (pgs 338-339) but it isn't formally considered an appendix, see the content pages in 002-003. What last 3 images are you referring to? Pgs 344-345, 346-347 towards the final pages. Author info/ads for the next book. There were other non-log horizon ads (Maoyuu Maou Yuusha I'm guessing) which weren't uploaded.--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 19:28, 29 December 2013 (CST)

Shido, at the end of the Japanese version of volume 1, there is...
  1) page 337: End of "Escape" (Vol 1 ch 5)
  2) a double page that seems to be a list of classes and subclasses or something going by the icons ("Log Horizon Vol01 338-339.jpg")
  3) afterword(pages 340-343)
  4) a double page spread with author/artist/etc information on TOUNO Mamare, MATSUDA Shoji, HARA Kazuhiro <br>along with what looks like other publication information("Log Horizon Vol01 344-345.jpg")
  5) what appears to be a double-page advertisement for volume 2 (i'm not sure of which, though clearly log horizon related, <br>there is a lot of bolded text and background text)("Log Horizon Vol01 346-347.jpg")
  6) a one page ad for something to do with Maou Yuusha
  7) a blank page
  8) the back cover
Aside from the Maou Yuusha ad(and obviously the blanks and afterword), they're all in the Volume 1 novel illustrations) --[[User:Madoka2029|Madoka2029]] ([[User talk:Madoka2029|talk]]) 04:03, 30 December 2013 (CST)

:I already asked him about it and he already replied to me on twitter. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 13:36, 30 December 2013 (CST)

::If the translator is skythewood, can you ask him about the missing text in volume 4? (the stuff remaining in vol 2-3 may not be in the Chinese text) --Rasen

:::More missing text from the volume 4 stuff I already reported to him from the above topic? the link I gave you on the 30th had volume 4 missing text on there already. I thought that was already added by you? http://pastebin.com/ThEzFadJ --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 19:45, 29 December 2013 (CST)

::::Sorry, I should have been more clear. Volume 4, chapter 2+. At the time, I had not yet reviewed the later chapters in the volume. --Rasen

:::::Ok I'll ask him again. --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 21:41, 29 December 2013 (CST)

Rasen, he updated that one pastebin for the rest of the chapters of volume 4. Same link as before just look further down for it. http://pastebin.com/ThEzFadJ --[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 01:29, 30 December 2013 (CST)

:Awesome, I've added in the new stuff, and whatever's left isn't in the Chinese version. --Rasen

== Editing Questions ==

I was wondering if we should capitalize class and subclasses like Samurai, Scribe and Maid. I currently am editing them all to lower case because that is how the earlier translations were, but I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions.

Also, should terms like League of Freedom Towns Eastal and Holy Empire Westelande have singular apostrophes around them?

One more thing, if referring to a singular People of the Land, should it be changed to Person of the Land? I have been keeping it as "a People of the Land" although that sounds weird.

That's all the questions I have for now.
--[[User:Rockmosis|Rockmosis]] ([[User talk:Rockmosis|talk]]) 12:23, 26 January 2014 (CST)

:I would try to captalise classes but I'm not sure about your 'maid' example tho, depends on usage. That girl who likes Nyanta with the Maid/Housekeeper subclass, yes. Raynesia's maid- No. Like I said depends on usage.

:I don't see the need for sticking apostrophes for special terms. I removed the ones placed on Adventurers etc to match early wiki entries. Want to remove some of the apostrophes in V5C4 to be honest. 'Flea Market' isn't really needed, and I think they gave up on it later in the chapter as well, it was there I think since translators were discussing whether 'bazaar' would be a closer translation to the original text.

:On a "singular People of the Land, should it be changed to Person of the Land?" Yes, use Person of the Land, it just sounds better--[[User:Drowzycow|Drowzycow]] ([[User talk:Drowzycow|talk]]) 12:38, 26 January 2014 (CST)

It isn't necessary to capitalize a class name unless the class name is being used with a person's name. I.E. Doctor John or President Clinton. 
--[[User:Shido|Shido]] ([[User talk:Shido|talk]]) 23:46, 7 February 2014 (CST)