Baka-Tsuki talk:Categories revamp project

Genre Suggestion

How about target audience? Shounen/Shoujo/Seinen/Josei.

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Also, while AFAIK we currently don't list any 18+ light novels (although there was one such story in SAO, it turned out to be a 3rd party doujin that SAO'author put on his website), they certainly exist, and unless there is some policy against them, there's a chance that one becomes popular enough to be translated... SinsI (talk) 08:24, 4 February 2014 (CST)

• We do have some 18+ VA's though. Cloudii (talk) 21:07, 4 February 2014 (CST)

Yeah, what about the genres like : Adult, Doujinshi, Gender Bender, Hentai, Josei, Shotacon, Shoujo Ai, Shounen Ai, Yaoi, Yuri ??? I don't have a clue if we host such LN, but those are quite used in manga... (My reference being Baka-update, I just compared the genres they distinguish with the ones listed here.) I know for sure there was once a polemic, because someone wanted to start a Yaoi LN translation, but Teh_Ping said she (if I remember well) should go and do it somewhere else than here. So, it depends on the fact : will we or do we have such material ? At least we could add the Doujinshi, Adult and Josei genres, I think... Excepted for the adult one, there aren't really any prejudice against those and Doujinshi aren't always ecchi or "worse". Lery (talk) 15:16, 4 February 2014 (CST)

• There's a clause in TLG/Oni's rules that generally say pornographic or whatever content is generally not allowed... "UNLESS such material is deemed necessary solely by the merit of preserving the integrity of such work(a)" (SECTION D). But the agreement seems to imply that moderators should at least try to moderate any material that is blatantly suspected to be inappropriate. In either case, this needs to be formally defined in the rules before we start hosting hentai-light-novels (if those even exist?) Cloudii (talk) 21:05, 4 February 2014 (CST)
  • I think it is a standard disclaimer to comply with electronic information laws. Usually it is not pornography but "unrestricted access to pornography" that is considered "inappropriate content" - so if you have a standard "you confirm that you are of (whatever age is required in your country) to read it" confirmation page before displaying any adult content, it is not actually inappropriate in most countries. If we do add a "adult/mature/18+" Genre, we might have to add such functionality as well... And such light novels certainly exist - you might be surprised if you look up works from the late author of Zero No Tsukaima and Strike Witches that he wrote under (pen?) name 山口昇一. SinsI (talk) 10:00, 6 February 2014 (CST)

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I added :

• Adventure
• Historical
• Mecha
• School Life

Devenk83 (talk) 10:14, 4 February 2014 (CST)

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I added a number of ones including Slice of Life and target audience. I actually used some manga sites as references, and pretty much all sites in the manga world use about the same categories. I know you guys were talking about restricting the categories so that people shouldn't make new ones in the future, so it's safer to err on being broader than not. For example, I don't think we have many sports light novels, but it's a major category nonetheless, and you can't deny the possibly we'll get a sports light novel in the future. Cloudii (talk) 11:40, 4 February 2014 (CST)

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Do we really need a target audience genre ? Light novels' main target are young men and women, so all of them are either Seinen or Josei, and you can see it with their manga adaptation who are mainly published in seinen magazine. Devenk83 (talk) 13:36, 4 February 2014 (CST)

• There's a big split between shouen and seinen. According to how mangaupdates has BT projects classified, we have 50 shounen, 23 seinen, 4 shoujo, no josei.... IDK if people use those categories though. But that's how external groups have categorized the series we host. Cloudii (talk) 21:05, 4 February 2014 (CST)

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A lot of them are Shounen - Accel World, Baka Testo, High School DxD - anything that uses nosebleeds instead of erections. SinsI (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2014 (CST)

Genre suggestion - Kira's

• Action
• Comedy
• Drama
• Ecchi
• Fantasy
• Mature
• Mystery
• Romance (As in the main theme is romance)
• Sci-Fi
• Shoujo/Josei
• Slice of Life
• Supernatural

Explanation for why others should be removed:

• Adventure: Can be included in Fantasy normally.
• Harem: I don't think this is needed; Comedy-Romance or Drama-Romance should be enough. Plus, it's included in 80% of all romance titles on BT, so yeah...
• Horror: Can be included in "Mature".
• Historical: lol
• Lolicon: lol
• Martial Arts: -->Action.
• Mecha: -->Sci-fi
• Psychological: I don't have any example of one in head...
• School Life: -->SOL
• Shounen/Seinen: Not useful at all, since almost every project here falls in one category or another.
• Sports: lol
• Tragedy: -->Drama

Mystes (Talk) 16:25, 5 February 2014 (CST)

> Horror Can be included in "Mature".

Shouldn't be included in "mature", because these two categories don't necessarily go hand in hand - you can have Horror for children, and you can have Mature titles that are not of the Horror variety (i.e. dealing with serious philosophical/moral issues)

> Shounen/Seinen: Not useful at all, since almost every project here falls in one category or another.

Very useful, since some might hate the immatureness and tropes of Shounen, but like Seinen very much...

Sports/Mecha/Historical/Martial Arts more belong to the "Tags" SinsI (talk) 18:09, 5 February 2014 (CST)

>Adventure: Can be included in Fantasy normally.

No, it can't. Non-Fantasy Adventure story exists too.

> Horror Can be included in "Mature".

I agree with SinsI opinion.

> Historical: lol

Light novel with historical inspiration exists... Like Oda Nobuna no Yabou

>Psychological: I don't have any example of one in head...

The World God Only Knows can serves as an exemple.

>Shounen/Seinen: Not useful at all, since almost every project here falls in one category or another.

Yes, I agree with you.

>Sports: lol

Even if I don't like sport, you shouldn't post this type of comment, it's insulting (and for the others too). Sport should be considered as a category like Fantasy and the others, but... Do we have sport light novel ? I don't even know if it exists...
Devenk83 (talk) 09:19, 7 February 2014 (CST)

Separating project/light novel categorizations

From what I can see, some of the categories that are being used are irrelevant to one of the two (projects/light novels). If the objective of this is to categorize the projects in a better way, maybe creating a light novel page separate from the translation project pages each light novel would be a better idea. The light novel page would serve mainly as a buffer, this page will contain a title, an image, links to the languages the light novel has been translated to, and maybe other general miscellaneous information regarding the light novel.

This way only the light novel page has to be added to all the categories that pertain only to the actual light novel (i.e. publisher, genres, etc.), and the individual translation project pages and be added to their own categories (i.e. language, project status, etc.). Then you can even categorize the categories so that some are used only for projects and some are only for light novels.

The cons of this method, obviously is that you guys will have to make a new page for each light novel and redo the categorization of each of them. Also this will take up more space (data wise) since there is an extra page for each light novel. I usually don't contribute to the site but it was an interesting topic. In the end this is only a suggestion from a lurker so if you guys don't like this, I guess you can just ignore this?

Hi,

I've been pondering the very same idea, but the drawback is having to force everyone through an intermediary page, whereas the english version, which attract most of our reader, is currently on direct access. Wonder how we could go around that. If you or anyone reading that has an idea...

Don't worry about the space thing, it's just text :)

DarkoNeko talk 08:10, 7 February 2014 (CST)

Oi DarkoNeko. The only way to do that would be to somehow link the sidebar links to that new select language thingy that's added on the top of the site. So that if English is selected as the language, then the links direct to the link's project's english version; if french is selected, then the link directs to the link's project's french version; etc etc. But that would involve a high level of coding, certainly faaaar beyond template coding. First you'd need to find out what parameter is passed to the system from that select language thingy and whether that parameter can be accessed (ie: it's not private or protected; see encapsulation in computer languages). After knowing that and figuring out how to access it, you'd have to incorporate it into the links using if then else statements. Seriously, it'll be a lot of work, making the sidebar wiki-text much more complicated, unless you program it in inside the backend somehow.

No, some ALF members are opposed to it, as they don't want to change the wiki's language each time they must go see the English version or the Alternative Language version of a chapter.
Devenk83 (talk) 09:03, 7 February 2014 (CST)

While I generally see what you mean, you seems to have the coding side all wrong :

• I never intended on using the ULS</a>.
• The ULS relies on JQuery, so the addition would have been in javascript, we wouldn't have needed to alter Mediawiki's code (which is a big no).

DarkoNeko talk 13:43, 7 February 2014 (CST)

Separating the project and English language page is the worst option.

• Website design rule 1: Less clicks the better. Especially for pages that are more popular (I'm not looking down on alternative languages, just telling it how it is).
• Webiste design rule 2: Less size the better.

If the opposition to using the select language is too strong, then I suggest you look into using subcategories to solve this problem. letting the Language be the parent-category and Genres being the subcategories or vice versa. That's all I'm going to say.

Please sign your messages with ~~~~ else we don't know who wrote what. DarkoNeko talk 13:41, 7 February 2014 (CST)

Project Status Terminology

To get this discussion going, too: IMO, it'd be best to name projects, which still have regularly contributions "active projects". Why? Because a series that has still more volumes to come is already called "on-going". "Active", however, is pretty clear in its meaning. Consequently the opposite to those projects would be "inactive projects". Then, of course, "completed projects" and maybe "licensed projects" for the stuff, that got licensed by U.S. companies. Though "licensed" might imply that Baka-Tsuki did license something. So the last term isn't very satisfying. Suggestions in that regard are highly welcomed. -cautr (talk) 06:41, 7 February 2014 (CST)