Talk:Meeting:March302014

Meeting started

Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines.

"is the one week requirement to complete a new chapter

choice 1) keep it 2) extend it to a month 3) remove it

<Kira0802> 3.
<Vallor> 2/3
<stellarroze> 2.
<krytyk> 1
<Misogi> 3
<Lery> 3
<cloudii> 3
<Lord-Simon> 3
<Darkoneko> 3

Majority to remove it.

consensus seems to expect a new project to already have material ready (like a prologue/intro already translated), rather than start from zero DarkoNeko talk 08:40, 30 March 2014 (CDT)

teaser status / ATP

random questions during chat mode (to complete)

• Should teasers be an intermediate step in the creation of a project ?
• What about teasers where the translator know already that (s)he'll be too busy to continue (and made than in hope another translator picks the project up) ?
• Translators often tag something as a project in hope to get it to the side bar/categories and give it visibility
• Every project seems to start by being tagged as a teaser for some reason (misuse ?)

Vote of new modus operandi :

1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project
2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending
3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis (or other supervisor) approves

<Kira0802> Yea
<cloudii> Yes
<Cthaeh> yes
<krytyk> yes
<rock96> Yep
<hayashi> yes
<stellarroze> yes
<Code-Zero> yes
<Vallor> Yes but what's happened to the deadline?
<Misogi> Yes (although the Alt. Languages situation should be clarified).
<DarkoNeko> yes
<Lery> yes
<Lord-Simon> yes

mailing supervisors

<cloudii> There are number of instances int he rules
<cloudii> that require members to "email" supervisors
<cloudii> ...
<cloudii> Remove all references thereof 
<cloudii> of that form of contact

Vote : everyone approve

Creating a wiki page for requests

" Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor."

(like on wikipedia)

vote :

<+Lord-Simon> yes
<Misogi> Yes.
<cloudii> yes
<Kira0802> Yea
<rock96> Yes.
<&DarkoNeko> agreed
<krytyk> y
<Lery> yes
<hayashi> yes

remove Wiki rules on forums

"rules about the forum should be on the forum, but rules about the wiki are also on the forum. They should be moved to the wiki"

Vote : everyone agrees

Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members.

vote : all approve.

Detail of content of saide pages to be discussed séparatly

inactivity

Inactive people in power group issues :

• Risk of accounts being hacked
• Risks of people asking long-time inactive members to do stuff and never get answers.
• cluttering of said groups

Motion :

<cloudii> 1). One year of inactivty = loss of physical wiki rights
<cloudii> 2). If you end up coming back, talk to a sysop to be reinstated

Vote :

<Kira0802> Yea
<Cthaeh> vote yes
<rock96> yes
<Lery> yes
<hayashi> mondai nai
<krytyk> y
<&DarkoNeko> vote y
<Vallor> yes
<victorrama> Yea
<+Lord-Simon> yes, even if I'm sceptical

project leading and supervisions

Renaming of some of the roles for a project, for clarity

 "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (usually one of the translators or editors. Does not need to be a member of a particular power user group)"
 "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above)"

<cloudii> Yes
<krytyk> yes
<Kira0802> Yea
<Vallor> Yeah
<Misogi> Yes (although I may not count)
<Lery> yes
<Cthaeh> yes, vote
<&DarkoNeko> i'd have preferred "translation project manager" for clarity, but I'll take that
<rock96> 'K, I think

Vote : approved

Project Manager

"If a project manager knows they'll be away for a while, they should designate a subtitute to take all decisions in their absence"

Vote : all agreed.

---

"In case of unannounced inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members"

Vote : approved.

---

"The first Project Manager is appointed by the Supervisor during ATP procedure."

Vote : approved.

Complete Log of the Meeting

Complete Log of the Noon Session (w/o TLG)

[...] 15:13 <&DarkoNeko> so, what part of http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 culd we do without him ? 15:13 < Kira0802> WHAT IF GOD WAS ONE OF US 15:13 < cloudii> ping said that he'd be late on fb 15:13 < Vallor> xD 15:13 < hayashi> but it's 9pm+ in sg 15:13 < Lord-Simon> kira.. calm down 15:13 < hayashi> he should be home by now 15:13 < Kira0802> JUST A SLOB LIKE ONE OF US 15:13 < Lery> Any way to magnify text using Mibbit ? 15:13 <&DarkoNeko> we could strart with cloudii's "Modify, simplify and remove outdated rules from the guidelines: " 15:13 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, like any other webpage, ctrl+ + 15:14 < Lord-Simon> do you use chrome ? 15:14 < Misogi> Yep, it requires everyone's help. 15:14 < hayashi> also 15:14 < hayashi> where is KH 15:14 < Vallor> Maybe Big Brother is watching us... 15:14 < hayashi> oh wait 15:14 < hayashi> he's back in camp 15:14 < hayashi> XD 15:14 < victorrama> Kira 15:14 < cloudii> I'm in favor of DarkoNeko's suggestion to get started anyways xD 15:14 <&DarkoNeko> could someone summarize https://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8726 it's too long didn't read :D 15:14 < Lery> @DarkoNeko, yeah, but the interface will then be magnified as well 15:14 < victorrama> He'd slap me 15:14 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, aye 15:14 < Kira0802> wtf darko 15:14 < cloudii> I can talk it through 15:14 <&DarkoNeko> Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules. <- YES. 15:14 < Lord-Simon> 15 more minutes and then start ? 15:14 < Kira0802> it's like 3 pages long 15:15 <&DarkoNeko> actually, why the fuck are they on the forum 15:15 < Kira0802> because forums = life 15:15 < hayashi> that's one of the points 15:15 < cloudii> 1). Remove the One Week deadline from the project creation rules 15:15 < hayashi> the wiki and the forums are not meshing 15:15 < cloudii> 2). Change the wording of the {{Warning:ATP}} 15:15 < Lery> Well, actually we could talk about Cloud's points. 15:15 < hayashi> something needs to be done about that 15:15 <&DarkoNeko> meshing ? 15:15 < Kira0802> >Part 1: Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines. 15:15 < Kira0802> >Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules. 15:15 < Kira0802> >Part 3: Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members. 15:15 <&DarkoNeko> hey, let cloud explain lol 15:15 < Lord-Simon> *sigh* 15:15 <&DarkoNeko> don't spam on his parade 15:15 < hayashi> the forums is supposed to function in tandem with the wiki 15:15 < Lord-Simon> Stop here 15:16 < hayashi> at least that's the way I see it 15:16 < Lord-Simon> Choose a person to explain 15:16 < Lord-Simon> wait for explanation 15:16 < hayashi> but currently it's not 15:16 < cloudii> Um, can someone chair the meeting? 15:16 < Lord-Simon> get a mediator 15:16 < Kira0802> TLG 15:16 < Lord-Simon> and do the stuff 15:16 <&DarkoNeko> what does a chair do ? 15:16 < Lord-Simon> I can 15:16 < hayashi> can we just get cloudi to explain everything 15:16 < cloudii> sure, Simon can chair 15:16 <&DarkoNeko> yes, let's do that 15:16 < victorrama> simon be mediator 15:16 < Misogi> Well, I can handle a part of the task too. 15:16 * Kira0802 hugs Cloudii 15:16 < stellarroze> i vote for simon! 15:16 <&DarkoNeko> i can ban the unrelies XD 15:16 * stellarroze hugs cloudii 15:16 <&DarkoNeko> unrulies* 15:17 < victorrama> Don't Kill me 15:17 * Kira0802 hugs stella 15:17 < krytyk> chat discipline~ 15:17 < cloudii> Okays, so Part 1 :Clarify Ambiguous (outdated) Baka-Tsuki guidelines. 15:17 * stellarroze hugs victorrama 15:17 <&DarkoNeko> shh 15:17 < hayashi> STOP HUGGING 15:17 < cloudii> The first rule that comes to mind that is outdated 15:17 < Lery> Uh, I think that it's only DarkoNeko who has the rights to moderate the channel currently. 15:17 < cloudii> is the one week requirement to complete a new chapter 15:17 < Kira0802> we can delete that 15:17 < cloudii> for a new project 15:17 < Misogi> Agreed. 15:17 < cloudii> just delete that rule 15:17 < Lery> Agreed 15:17 < Lord-Simon> People 15:17 < victorrama> ^ 15:17 < cloudii> Motion to agree? 15:17 < Lord-Simon> Shut up 15:17 <&DarkoNeko> why is that rule a problem ? 15:17 < stellarroze> one month? 15:17 < cloudii> Okay 15:17 < Lord-Simon> Thank you 15:18 < cloudii> so, it's a problem 15:18 < Lord-Simon> Cloidii, once agian please 15:18 < Kira0802> No, if therE's not enough, we can simply not approve 15:18 < cloudii> because most projects don't even follow that guideline 15:18 < Kira0802> instead of going all the way to delete it 15:18 < cloudii> in the first place 15:18 < Lery> Well, it's stressing the translators who would like to begin... 15:18 < stellarroze> hmmm 15:18 < cloudii> theoretically 15:18 < stellarroze> fair enough 15:18 < cloudii> any project 15:18 < victorrama> Listen to simon. Please stay wuite ,:now 15:18 < cloudii> tagged with ATP, is supposed to be deleted within a week 15:18 < cloudii> unless the translator gets permission from a supervisor 15:18 < cloudii> to get it extended 15:19 <&DarkoNeko> okay, so a little pause 15:19 < krytyk> a translator can first translate a chapter, and then start a project, if he is determined he will do that. I believe that rule was made to avoid people pick up new project, and then go MIA 15:19 <&DarkoNeko> choice 1) keep it 2) extend it to a month 3) remove it 15:19 < Kira0802> 3. 15:19 < Vallor> 2/3 15:19 < stellarroze> 2. 15:19 < krytyk> 1 15:19 < Misogi> 3 15:19 < Lery> 3 15:19 < cloudii> 3 15:19 < Vallor> I'd prefer the third though 15:19 < hayashi> 2 15:19 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, so, having a chapter (or a prologue) ready before the project is actually created, then 15:20 < cloudii> Can I bring up a point? 15:20 < Lord-Simon> 3 15:20 < Kira0802> go ahead 15:20 <&DarkoNeko> sure 15:20 < Lord-Simon> Let me get some paper 15:20 < cloudii> Theoretically, we want all of our project startup guidelines 15:20 < cloudii> to include rules governing teaser creation 15:20 <&DarkoNeko> I'll go create a summary of the discussion on http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014&action=edit&redlink=1 15:20 < Vallor> But it is a problem fo alternative langages 15:20 < krytyk> moreover, considering that rule, I want to pick up another facet of it, the teasers 15:20 < krytyk> it is really ambigious considering teaser projects 15:20 < cloudii> exactly 15:21 < Kira0802> Teasers do not have any rule concerning them, and it'd ok. 15:21 < cloudii> That is point 2 on my page 15:21 < Misogi> Coudii mentionned that point later in the post. 15:21 -!- DefaultMelody [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:21 < Misogi> Cloudii* 15:21 < krytyk> yeah, I mean those issues are connected 15:21 < cloudii> There are no rules whatsoever governing the creation of teasers 15:21 < krytyk> so if you discuss one, you should consider the other at the same time. 15:21 < cloudii> sure 15:21 < cloudii> so, here's the issue with the teasers 15:21 < Misogi> Teaser = A translator only does some chapters, nothing more. 15:22 < cloudii> since there are no rules governing the uploading up them 15:22 < cloudii> and also the fact that some people don't consider teasers to be "starting a new project" 15:22 < cloudii> whereas other people do 15:22 < hayashi> i have a question 15:22 < hayashi> can anyone create a teaser 15:22 < cloudii> go ahead 15:22 < cloudii> yes 15:22 < Kira0802> yes 15:22 < Lord-Simon> yes 15:22 < hayashi> ah ok 15:23 <&DarkoNeko> that may be a problem 15:23 < hayashi> should we restrict it to translators only? 15:23 < Kira0802> it's not 15:23 < stellarroze> even a machine translator? 15:23 <&DarkoNeko> teasers seems to be quite the "bastardised" status 15:23 < Lord-Simon> I would vote for no. 15:23 < krytyk> to create a teaser you need a correctly translated part 15:23 < Kira0802> well, a machine TL can touch a teaser as much as a normal translation 15:23 < krytyk> so not just anyone can do it 15:23 < hayashi> like a series that a translator wants to do but has no time so it's just something he's throwing out there? 15:23 < Misogi> ^ 15:23 -!- arczyx [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 15:23 < Kira0802> @Hayashi, yeah, something like that 15:23 < cloudii> Well, it's just my observation that the usage of the "teaser tag" no longer represents what we originally intended for it 15:23 < Lord-Simon> One thing about this whole thing. 15:24 <&DarkoNeko> it probably shoiuld be only a translator, but we would keep away potential new translators if only existing ones can do that 15:24 < krytyk> that might be what some people want to do, but it should be treated as something that "teases" and possibly catches some other translators interest 15:24 < cloudii> All new projects on the wiki are tagged with some sort of teaser tag 15:24 < cloudii> in the English projects 15:24 < cloudii> On the other hand, ATP tag is neglected 15:24 < cloudii> that's the main issue here 15:24 < Misogi> Exception of Alt. Languages. 15:24 < Lord-Simon> One person states the problem and explains it. We wait till he/she is done. Discuss it. And at the end we vote. 15:24 < Lery> What was it intended to be at first? 15:24 < cloudii> Imo, all brand new translations on the wiki, should be tagged with ATP 15:25 < cloudii> Oni's original rules didn't not account for the existence of teasers 15:25 <&DarkoNeko> "ATP" ? 15:25 < hayashi> the initial discussion was about the existence of the 1 week deadline 15:25 < cloudii> "Pending Project Tag" 15:25 < Kira0802> I disagree for that 15:25 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png 15:25 < hayashi> so far we seem to be mostly in favour of abolishing it/extending it to a month 15:25 < hayashi> with majority for abolishing it totally 15:25 < Kira0802> Why should something that's not intended to be made into a project have a tag on it? 15:25 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, ... why does that only apply to "alternative lanugages" ? 15:26 < cloudii> No, it's supposed to apply to all languages 15:26 < cloudii> Oni treats it that way 15:26 <&DarkoNeko> ok 15:26 < cloudii> at the very least 15:26 < krytyk> the problem is with existence of ATP imho 15:26 < cloudii> the problem is, is that ATP is not being used 15:26 < cloudii> for english projects 15:26 <&DarkoNeko> bit of pause again : should we use temporary +M with voicing of the speaker during explanation time ? 15:26 < Kira0802> yes 15:26 < krytyk> as teasers are there, people (incl me) prefer to make a teaser, and once it grows to normal volume size convert it to full project 15:26 < stellarroze> +M? 15:26 < Kira0802> don't forget to voice cloudii 15:26 < krytyk> so abolish ATP or teasers 15:26 < Lord-Simon> yes 15:26 < Lord-Simon> I'd like that to do 15:26 <&DarkoNeko> +m, only voice ad above may talk, it's so only the speaker , well, speak, during that time 15:27 <&DarkoNeko> ok, we'll do that starting the next point then 15:27 < cloudii> Observation: Nowadays, all of our new projects go through the Teaser Project pathway. Regardless of whether a new project really should be classified as a teaser, virtually all translators tag their new project pages with the Teaser tag. 15:27 < cloudii> Translators tag the teaser tag regardless of their intent to continue, or not to continue the project 15:27 < cloudii> that's just an observation 15:27 < krytyk> What about abolishing ATP, and making some of its rules cover the teasers 15:28 < Kira0802> True, but why should all projects have ATP? 15:28 < Kira0802> all teasers* 15:28 <&DarkoNeko> should we make "teaser" an intermediary part of creating a project, then ? 15:28 < krytyk> one week to present a prologue 15:28 < krytyk> as a "teaser" 15:28 < krytyk> teasers are very short so a month is not needed 15:28 < Vallor> teasers and new projects are not the same thing... 15:28 < Kira0802> I say you have the content before making the page for a teaser 15:28 < krytyk> teasers often turn into full project, more often than ATP turn into new projects 15:28 < cloudii> krytyk, the one week thing, is that do you really plan to delete a page that has less than prologue? 15:28 < Kira0802> you must have* 15:29 < Lord-Simon> But the teaser and a new project are treated as one 15:29 < cloudii> If someone uploads 25%, do we really want to delete the page? 15:29 < cloudii> just because it fails to fulfil the 1 week requirement? 15:29 < Lord-Simon> That what it might look to the person out there. 15:29 < hayashi> if I may interrupt 15:29 < cloudii> because that's what the rule implies 15:29 < krytyk> 25%, is 4 lines of text very often 15:29 < Lord-Simon> Go on, hayashi. 15:29 < Kira0802> ehhh 15:29 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [+v Lord-Simon] by DarkoNeko 15:29 < hayashi> teasers are supposed to entice newbie translators into picking up a project 15:30 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [-vvv cautr`off Gosha Kanzar] by DarkoNeko 15:30 < hayashi> after being 'teased' by a small portion 15:30 < hayashi> krtyk 15:30 < hayashi> what you're proposing isn't a teaser 15:30 < cloudii> that was the original intention of the teaser initiative 15:30 < hayashi> it's a full project you're committing to 15:30 <+Lord-Simon> Yes, that is correct. 15:30 < hayashi> because you intend to continue 15:30 < krytyk> yeah, I know that. The case is that its mainly teasers that turn into normal projects 15:30 < krytyk> ATP isn't used very often 15:30 < hayashi> so far 15:30 < krytyk> making those rules a problem 15:30 < hayashi> not a lot of teasers have made the leap into full projects 15:31 < Kira0802> Teasers turn into projects because without the tag, they don't get visibility. 15:31 < cloudii> the observation is that everyone uses the teaser tag is an intermediate to full project nowadays 15:31 < cloudii> Here's how I see it: 15:31 < krytyk> thus my point is to merge ATP with teasers and create a separate set of rules. 15:31 < cloudii> add Teaser as an official intermediate in the workflow 15:31 -!- rock96 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 15:31 < cloudii> or merge/delete ATP tag with teasers 15:31 < Kira0802> long time no see, rock 15:31 < hayashi> I think 15:31 < hayashi> teasers should remain as so 15:31 < rock96> Hi to all, yeah 15:32 < hayashi> but the ATP tag should be moderated/enforced more 15:32 < cloudii> The issue is that, there's no way for the ATP tag to be moderated 15:32 < krytyk> if ATP is moderated, people will just continue as teasers until they qualify to full projects 15:32 < hayashi> if you integrate teasers into the project flow 15:32 < krytyk> thus making ATP oboslete 15:32 < cloudii> because the assumption, currently 15:32 < cloudii> is that all translators claim their uploaded translation is a teaser 15:32 < hayashi> it makes people assume every teaser will become a full project eventually 15:32 < cloudii> rendering ATP unnecessary 15:32 <&DarkoNeko> hayashi, that seems to be the goal of the teasers, tho 15:33 < hayashi> hm 15:33 < cloudii> that's why 2/67 projects in the teaser section have ATP tags 15:33 < Misogi> If I may say a word, I saw some English projects with the ATP tag, to make sure that they end in the sidebar. 15:33 < krytyk> translators try to avoid the regulations 15:33 < Kira0802> I think teasers can stay the way they are. ATP tag should be put only when a project meets requirements to become a full project (Basically, just for the mods to approve the project), and the one-week thing should be deleted 15:33 < hayashi> maybe I didn't phrase myself properly 15:33 < krytyk> you dont fight it with more regulations 15:33 < hayashi> like 15:33 < hayashi> teaser projects should only be tagged as teasers 15:33 < cloudii> So, at the very least, it looks like we're in favor of redefining the ATP tag 15:33 < Lery> Kira0802 +1 15:34 < hayashi> if the translator has no intention of continuing 15:34 < hayashi> because if he does intend to 15:34 < cloudii> I disagree with you hayashi 15:34 <&DarkoNeko> ah, that differentiation 15:34 < hayashi> then it's not really a teaser anymore 15:34 < krytyk> sounds good, so a translator tags the series with ATP, and a mod checks if it qualifies 15:34 < zzhk> the deletion warning is kind of misleading, because projects are sometimes tagged ATP for lacking a registration page 15:34 < cloudii> because the teasers tag is the only way to bring visibility to teasers 15:34 < krytyk> thus teaser + tag = full project (if fulfills the reqs) 15:34 < cloudii> ^that works too 15:35 < Misogi> ^ Yeah, it's not a bad idea. 15:35 < Kira0802> hayashi, the problem is that if you don't tage your series a teaser, you have no visibility in the sidebar 15:35 < cloudii> there are many solutions to this that I think works well 15:35 < cloudii> Kira +1 15:35 < hayashi> aren't we getting rid of the sidebar? 15:35 <+Lord-Simon> That is for later 15:35 <&DarkoNeko> yes. 15:35 <+Lord-Simon> wait 15:35 < cloudii> We're replacing it with links to categories 15:35 <&DarkoNeko> well, changing it 15:35 < cloudii> The only way for any new project to get visibility 15:35 < cloudii> is to either be in the English category 15:35 < cloudii> *English Teaser 15:35 < cloudii> or Light Novel Category 15:36 < cloudii> That's the rationale for most translators to tag teasers 15:36 < cloudii> when their project has not been approved yet 15:36 < hayashi> ok 15:36 < hayashi> but if 15:36 < Kira0802> So a pending project without a teaser tag becomes something like Moku-something Alice 15:36 < hayashi> we are getting rid of the deadline 15:36 < hayashi> translators won't have the need to tag their work as a teaser anymore, right? 15:36 < cloudii> No, they do 15:36 < hayashi> since they won't be under any deadline 15:36 < krytyk> aren't we changing the purpose of atp? 15:36 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes or no to remove the deadline in the teaser. 15:37 < cloudii> there is no deadline for teaser... 15:37 < cloudii> there's a deadline for ATP 15:37 < krytyk> one sec simon, we discussed more so let's make a more complete conclusion for a vote 15:37 < rock96> ^what he said 15:37 <+Lord-Simon> ATP, sorry. 15:37 < Kira0802> Yea for ATP 15:37 < hayashi> ok 15:37 < hayashi> uh 15:37 <&DarkoNeko> people, it doesn't look like we will arrive to an agreement for the teaser and ATP thing today. I think it would be better for a small group to work on it on the side and then propose it on the forum/another meeting once it's ready 15:37 < hayashi> I'm gonna type out what I think 15:37 < krytyk> no. Cloudii, formulate a statement 15:37 <&DarkoNeko> we're having a good discussion and all, but at this rate we won't have time for any of the other subjects 15:37 < victorrama> True 15:37 < cloudii> um 15:38 < hayashi> teasers should be kept as teasers, but the atp deadline should be removed so that future translators have more flexibility 15:38 < hayashi> does that make sense? 15:38 < cloudii> We should remove the 1 week deadline for ATP 15:38 < Kira0802> yes, hayashi 15:38 < cloudii> require ATP to be tagged with all new project pages 15:38 < Vallor> Are you saying that teasers and new projects are the same thing? New projects should be in the LN category and teasers in a teaser category, that's all. 15:38 < cloudii> including Teaser pages 15:38 < cloudii> so the purpose of ATP 15:38 < cloudii> is for a mod to check the page 15:38 < hayashi> oh I'm saying teasers are seperate from new projects 15:38 < hayashi> any new project will have to be to tagged with ATP 15:38 < cloudii> but if the page is satisfactory, ATP can be removed 15:38 < hayashi> ^ 15:38 < cloudii> the teaser tag is kept 15:38 < cloudii> that's my proposal 15:38 < krytyk> mm, ATP for all projects that have at least 1 chapter not including prologue. And then the ATP pages are to be judged by a mod. 15:39 < krytyk> isnt that better cloudi 15:39 < Kira0802> @Vallor Pending approval are reffered as New projects here, vallor 15:39 < Lery> Actually the teaser tag should mean that it was translated just for fun and it's there to be discovered but that nobody is currently working further on it, isn't it ? 15:39 < cloudii> krytyk's suggestion is also satisfactory 15:39 < Vallor> ATP should be removed, or be added on new projects only. Teaser shouldn't have to be tagged as pending approval... 15:39 < cloudii> @Lery, that was the original definition, but practically that isn't the case anymore 15:39 < Kira0802> @Vallor or rather, those that are created but don't meet the requirements 15:39 < krytyk> thus teasers be teasers and can have just prologue, and ATP is a sign for mod to judge a series. 15:39 < krytyk> that wants to become a full project. 15:39 < cloudii> krytyk's proposal I'm in favor with as well 15:40 < Lery> @cloudii Well, isn't it because of that time limit we're wanting to remove ? 15:40 < hayashi> I'm ok with that 15:40 < cloudii> I would like to remove the time limit as well 15:40 < krytyk> the time limit is unneccesary then 15:40 < cloudii> Someone with supervisor access needs to rewrite the entire tag 15:40 < krytyk> as it already has 1 chapter when the tag is put on. 15:40 < Misogi> May someone clarify the changes and launch the vote? 15:40 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png 15:40 < Kira0802> OK, so remove time limit, use tag just for upgrade. 15:40 < Kira0802> Teasers stay teasers. 15:40 < hayashi> sounds good 15:40 < cloudii> 1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project 15:40 < krytyk> yup 15:41 < cloudii> 2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending 15:41 < cloudii> 3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis approve 15:41 < cloudii> that's it 15:41 <+Lord-Simon> yes 15:41 <+Lord-Simon> Or any other Supervisor 15:41 < krytyk> simplifies a ton, and no hanging pending projects in a separate category. 15:41 < cloudii> Can we vote to agree? 15:41 < Kira0802> OK 15:41 < hayashi> simon call for a vote? 15:41 < Misogi> May I add something? 15:42 <+Lord-Simon> We are now voting for cloudii's summary 15:42 < Vallor> By full project, you mean a series completely translated? 15:42 <&DarkoNeko> no 15:42 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes if you agree, no if you disagree 15:42 < cloudii> full project, meaning like "sidebar project" 15:42 < Kira0802> No, a full project=project in the sidebar 15:42 <&DarkoNeko> okay, please repeat exact what we are voting for, cloudii 15:42 < Vallor> Okay, so I'm agree 15:42 < cloudii> : 1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project 15:42 <&DarkoNeko> then everyone vote 15:42 < cloudii> : 2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending 15:42 < cloudii> 3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis approve 15:42 < cloudii> (or some supervisor) 15:43 <+Lord-Simon> Vote yes or no 15:43 < Kira0802> Yea 15:43 < cloudii> Yes 15:43 < Cthaeh> yes 15:43 < krytyk> yes 15:43 < rock96> Yep 15:43 < hayashi> yes 15:43 < stellarroze> yes 15:43 <+Lord-Simon> if you vote no, explain yourself after the vote 15:43 < Code-Zero> yes 15:43 < Vallor> Yes but what's happened to the deadline? 15:43 < Misogi> Yes (although the Alt. Languages situation should be clarified). 15:43 < hayashi> it will be gone 15:43 < cloudii> We'll discuss that next 15:43 <&DarkoNeko> removed 15:43 <+Lord-Simon> Deadlinewill beremoved 15:43 < cloudii> Okay 15:43 < cloudii> that works too 15:43 < cloudii> <3 15:43 <&DarkoNeko> yes 15:43 -!- Nurin [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 15:43 <&DarkoNeko> well, the point 3 is a bit of pickle, but it seems glboally good 15:43 < Lery> yes 15:43 < krytyk> deadline is removed, as the tag is only to be put after 1 chapter (prologue aside) is to be already finished. 15:44 < Lery> Any supervisor can handle point 3 I thinl 15:44 < cloudii> Onto next point? 15:44 < Lery> Any supervisor can handle point 3 I think* 15:44 <+Lord-Simon> yes 15:44 < Vallor> thAgree with Lery 15:44 < cloudii> Point 3 is like this now, because only those individuals ahve sidebar access 15:44 < Vallor> Agree* 15:44 < Kira0802> ^ 15:44 < cloudii> but if we lose the sidebar, I'm in favor for any supervisor approval 15:44 < Lery> @Cloudii, let's go. Shouldn't we talk about sidebar modification ? 15:44 < Kira0802> it's not anyone who can put projects on the sidebar atm 15:44 < zzhk> so for substandard projects (e.g. no translated content), the deletion template (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Category:Speedy_Deletion) will be slapped on instead of ATP﹖ 15:45 < cloudii> Thank you zzhk, I agree with that too 15:45 < Misogi> There's the exception of Alt. Lang., where supervisors handle that. 15:45 <&DarkoNeko> should't it be normal deletion, ratehr than speedy ? actually, do we have a normal deletion process ? 15:45 < hayashi> I'm good with that 15:45 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#teaser_status_.2F_ATP alright, it's written down 15:45 < cloudii> Also, can we assign someone 15:45 <+Lord-Simon> No we don'T 15:45 < hayashi> deleting without warning 15:45 < cloudii> to rewrite this: 15:45 < cloudii> http://i.imgur.com/JC6zsLM.png 15:45 < cloudii> It's protected 15:45 < hayashi> might be vandalism 15:45 <+Lord-Simon> we should discuss the deletion process 15:45 < Kira0802> Darko can 15:45 < hayashi> or not give the guy a fair chance to upload stuff 15:45 <+Lord-Simon> but that is later for the forum 15:46 <&DarkoNeko> we'll do the deed later 15:46 < Kira0802> nxt point? 15:46 < victorrama> Yes 15:46 < cloudii> Okay 15:46 <&DarkoNeko> alright. What is the next point, then ? 15:46 < cloudii> Point 3 15:46 < cloudii> There are number of instances int he rules 15:46 < cloudii> that require members to "email" supervisors 15:46 < cloudii> ....... 15:46 < hayashi> this is a related point 15:46 < cloudii> Remove all references thereof 15:46 < hayashi> but a lot of the supervisors listed are no longer active 15:46 <+Lord-Simon> yes, looks like it 15:46 < cloudii> of that form of contact 15:47 < Misogi> I agree on making a single page for contact. 15:47 <+Lord-Simon> but if we look at the discussion before 15:47 < krytyk> either forums, direct (irc) contact, or PM 15:47 <+Lord-Simon> we can remove that part 15:47 < Kira0802> Darko 15:47 < zzhk> speaking of "supervisors", we should prioritize the issue of wiki supervisor protection rights 15:47 <&DarkoNeko> let's do it properly people 15:47 <+Lord-Simon> as any supervisor will go through newly created project 15:47 <+Lord-Simon> if they have the tags 15:47 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, starting the vote ? there's not much to discuss here XD 15:47 < cloudii> Actually, I really want to echo zzhk here (if DarkoNeko is capable of doing anything abou tit) 15:47 <+Lord-Simon> Wait 15:48 < Vallor> Misogi is right. A single page of contact is good enough. 15:48 <+Lord-Simon> We are talking about a mail-list creating 15:48 <+Lord-Simon> *creation. 15:48 < cloudii> Um, acutally yeah 15:48 <&DarkoNeko> argh, what 15:48 <+Lord-Simon> mailing list 15:48 < cloudii> DarkoNeko I neglected to explain half of my thing 15:48 <&DarkoNeko> I don't want that, i hate mails 15:48 < Lery> @zzhk, we're waiting for TLG before talking about those administrative problems ;) 15:48 < cloudii> so, the issue is 15:48 <&DarkoNeko> no way i'm getting on another mailing list 15:48 < cloudii> currently members are told to contact "A supervisor" 15:48 < cloudii> preferably all of them 15:48 < cloudii> but we all know that they usually only contact one 15:49 < cloudii> but if a translator looking for project approval 15:49 <+Lord-Simon> That's why a mailing list 15:49 < cloudii> posts on TLG's talk page 15:49 < cloudii> clearly it's not going to get lookd at 15:49 <+Lord-Simon> or one mail, that sens to many 15:49 < Misogi> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made.", as Cloudii wrote in his topic. 15:49 < Kira0802> Can we just create a page on the Wiki for "Requests" or something? 15:49 < Lery> Yeah, that's a major problem. 15:49 <&DarkoNeko> no no no 15:49 <&DarkoNeko> not a mailing list. 15:49 <+Lord-Simon> What else ? 15:49 < cloudii> If we have no mailing list, it's okay too 15:50 < Lery> We could either use a topic on the forum for that purpose, or a dedicated Wiki page, couldn't we ? 15:50 < Kira0802> So a wiki page? 15:50 <&DarkoNeko> especially when we can just have a maintenance page dedicated to that on the wiki 15:50 < cloudii> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made." 15:50 < Lery> Or even both 15:50 < cloudii> That's the proposal 15:50 <&DarkoNeko> yes, like a wikipedia's request for deletion, for maintenance, for adminship etc 15:50 < Kira0802> Then...we settle for a wiki page? 15:50 < rock96> um, what about simply forwarding people to the forum directly to make a thread? 15:50 < cloudii> Registration issues with forums 15:50 < cloudii> captcha 15:50 < hayashi> forum wiki integration is a seprate issue 15:50 <&DarkoNeko> the more things directly on the wiki the better 15:50 < cloudii> "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made." 15:50 < Lery> I think that we could go with both : one wiki page for wiki addicts and one forum page for forum addicts... 15:50 < cloudii> Anyone against this? 15:50 <+Lord-Simon> no 15:50 < Kira0802> No 15:50 <&DarkoNeko> no 15:51 <+Lord-Simon> two instances is bad 15:51 < Vallor> A 'Link here the project you would like to be approved' wiki page 15:51 < rock96> guests are allowed to make posts. And we're lurking around approving posts... 15:51 < Misogi> May I add something? 15:51 <+Lord-Simon> really bad 15:51 <+Lord-Simon> yes 15:51 < Kira0802> misogi, just say something lol, don't ask 15:51 < krytyk> Vallor, we already have decided ATP tag for that 15:51 < cloudii> ^^ 15:51 < Lery> @Lord-Simon, I don't think so : there are as much supervisor on the forum as on the wiki... 15:51 < Misogi> We should divide it into sections (languages, approval...), and delete regularly the things once they're done. 15:51 < Vallor> krytyk: Isn't it exactly the same issue? I'm lost... 15:51 < krytyk> its not 15:52 < victorrama> Most suoervisors do nothing 15:52 < cloudii> "Assign an individual to clean that page of off-topic and resolved material. " 15:52 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, can't be, I mean, i don't have a forum account 15:52 < krytyk> we're speaking about sueprvisors-only things to do 15:52 -!- mib_cfp1sj [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:52 < cloudii> Yes Misogi <3 15:52 < Misogi> Then I'm on the idea. Summary? 15:52 < krytyk> Protecting pages a prime example. 15:52 < cloudii> Yup 15:52 < cloudii> 1). Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor. 15:52 < Misogi> Protection -> Yes. 15:52 < cloudii> 2). Assign an individual to clean that page of off-topic and resolved material. (I'll even volunteer myself if no one wants to do it). 15:52 < cloudii> That's it 15:52 < Kira0802> Yea 15:53 <&DarkoNeko> the point 2 is a problem 15:53 < Lery> @DarkoNeko : it's not a problem, you'll handle the wiki request and the supervisors with forum account will handle the forum's ones... 15:53 < krytyk> the same person who grants the requests should delete it 15:53 < Misogi> ^ 15:53 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 15:53 < cloudii> That's fair too <3 15:53 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, that, yes 15:53 <+Lord-Simon> 1). Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor. 15:53 <&DarkoNeko> but for other stuff, having a pool of people rather than "an individual" is better 15:53 < Vallor> I'm agree with krytyk 15:54 < cloudii> Sure, my wording was bad. My intent was just to say that the page needs to get cleaned 15:54 -!- BrokenTree [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 15:54 < Misogi> "I agree", Vallor. 15:54 < Lery> Having only one individual is always bad, we never know what may happen. 15:54 <+Lord-Simon> 2). Any supervisor that grants the ok to a request will delete the request. 15:54 <+Lord-Simon> *an ok 15:54 < cloudii> Motion for Simon's proposal? 15:54 < Vallor> Misogi: Sorry, I always make this mistake... 15:54 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, that's pretty much a given 15:54 <+Lord-Simon> yes 15:54 < Misogi> Yes. 15:54 < cloudii> yes 15:54 < Kira0802> Yea 15:54 < rock96> Yes. 15:54 <&DarkoNeko> agreed 15:54 < krytyk> y 15:55 < Lery> yes 15:55 < cloudii> Motion accepted… apparently? 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> YEs 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> it is accepted 15:55 < hayashi> yes 15:55 < Kira0802> Indeed...next point? 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 15:55 < cloudii> Okay, I'm going to skip Point 4 on my outline 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> wait 15:55 -!- victorrama [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55 < cloudii> that'll take too much time 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> just tell about point 4 15:55 <+Lord-Simon> for information 15:55 < Kira0802> ^ 15:56 < cloudii> It's a bunch of topics that I suggested that we create rules for 15:56 < Kira0802> err 15:56 < Misogi> Since you gave the things to add... 15:56 < cloudii> for example, the Wiki lacks general behavior rules 15:56 -!- masoatwork [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 15:56 -!- masoatwork is now known as victorrama 15:56 < cloudii> Or well, 15:56 < Kira0802> let's move that to the forums then? 15:56 <&DarkoNeko> "don't be a dick or we'll ban you" 15:56 < cloudii> Well, do people want to discuss this? 15:56 < hayashi> no 15:56 < Misogi> No need. 15:56 < Kira0802> no 15:56 <&DarkoNeko> nah, let's skip 15:56 <+Lord-Simon> not here 15:56 < cloudii> Fair 15:56 <+Lord-Simon> not now 15:56 < cloudii> Part 2: Migrate all the Wiki rules from the Forums, and archive the old rules. 15:57 < Misogi> Er, you forgot #5 15:57 <+Lord-Simon> Hmmm.... 15:57 < Lery> We can discuss it later on the forum, Cloudii 15:57 <+Lord-Simon> I would disagree. 15:57 < cloudii> Oh. Actually, imo, it's unecessary if sidebar gets scrapped 15:57 < cloudii> (point 5 thatis) 15:57 <&DarkoNeko> I never was fond of having anything like that on the forum 15:57 <&DarkoNeko> a wiki reader won't go there to look for rules 15:57 < cloudii> Simon, can you explain why you disagree? 15:57 < Kira0802> Forums rule to the Wiki or Wiki Rules in the forum to the WIki? 15:57 <+Lord-Simon> We can have two identical versions on forums and on the wiki 15:57 < Kira0802> there's a difference here 15:57 -!- BrokenTree [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58 < cloudii> Forum rules on forums, Wiki rules on Wiki 15:58 < cloudii> remove Wiki rules on forums 15:58 < Lery> Yeah that should be so. 15:58 <+Lord-Simon> Ah 15:58 <+Lord-Simon> yes 15:58 < Kira0802> Yea 15:58 <&DarkoNeko> hmm, then putting a link to the wiki page on the forum 15:58 < Vallor> agreed 15:58 <+Lord-Simon> That explains it. 15:58 < cloudii> Yes, DarkoNeko 15:58 < Misogi> ^ 15:58 < Cthaeh> yes 15:58 < krytyk> I suggest we discuss mechanics first, behavioural rules other day 15:58 < Lery> yes 15:58 <+Lord-Simon> So, I guess we don't even need to vote. 15:59 < victorrama> ^ 15:59 < cloudii> Sure 15:59 < cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Rules 15:59 < cloudii> DarkoNeko, could you move the rules here? 15:59 < cloudii> and then link this onto the sidebar? 15:59 < Lery> That's mechanic ^^ It's about rules' location, not about the rules themselves. 15:59 <&DarkoNeko> ask me again after the meeting 15:59 < cloudii> Sure 15:59 <&DarkoNeko> I'm not doing anything until we finished 15:59 < Misogi> Don't forget to put a link on the Main Page. 15:59 < Lery> Aren't you already taking the minutes ? 15:59 < cloudii> Last 15:59 < cloudii> Part 3: Create comprehensive Help Pages to improve the experience of brand-new members. 15:59 < cloudii> I just want official recognition for this 16:00 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, loosely, i'm only putting the votes 16:00 < cloudii> no writing being done here.... 16:00 < krytyk> Not really an issue we need to discuss IMHO. 16:00 < Lery> I guess your multitasking has limits '^^ 16:00 <&DarkoNeko> I'll try whoever is keeping logs to make a better version later 16:00 < cloudii> Can we get official recognition for the support of creating help pages? 16:00 < Lery> You have my approval Cloudii 16:00 < cloudii> yes/no 16:00 <+Lord-Simon> If I remember right, cloudii, you have made a page for that 16:00 < krytyk> well, yes 16:00 < Lery> Go ahead make us nice help pages ^^ 16:00 <&DarkoNeko> ...does this REALLY need to be voted ? it seems like a given 16:00 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 16:00 < Kira0802> Yea 16:00 < cloudii> I've never gotten direct approval from anyone… so.... 16:00 < krytyk> thats what i said; 16:00 <&DarkoNeko> the dissent would be on what to put exactly on pages 16:00 <+Lord-Simon> just add it to the list that will be done 16:01 < cloudii> Cool, okay, that covers everything from my end 16:01 < Misogi> There's also the problem of visibility. 16:01 < Lery> yeah, if you had taken initiative to do it on your own, nobody would have complained ;) 16:01 -!- Code-Zero [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Rizon webchat: http://qchat.rizon.net/] 16:01 -!- wet [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, on a wiki, if you wait for approvals nothing ever gets done 16:01 < Misogi> Sure, there are rules, but if you can't find them easily... 16:01 <+Lord-Simon> Gonna mail TLG 16:01 <+Lord-Simon> *sigh* 16:02 < Kira0802> we'll just post there on the sidebar/main page, misogi 16:02 < Lery> Yeah, those help pages should be located so that you find them easily. 16:02 < krytyk> where does he live, lets raid him; 16:02 -!- xiiao [[email protected]] has quit [] 16:02 < Misogi> Should be sleeping. 16:02 < Kira0802> i saw his phone number 16:02 < Lery> Ahahah, he's on the west cost, isn't he ? 16:02 < Kira0802> wanna call him? 16:02 <&DarkoNeko> let him sleep 16:02 < rock96> ...huh? 16:02 < Lery> Anybody has him on skype ? 16:03 < Kira0802> lolno 16:03 <&DarkoNeko> better no TLG than a very pissed TLG ^^; 16:03 < cloudii> I suppose this meeting will get rescheduled for another day for the other adminstrative stuff 16:03 < krytyk> though its going to be a pain if he turns out after everyone leaves 16:03 < hayashi> should take the time to settle the stuff that doesn't need tlg 16:03 <&DarkoNeko> well, i have a few points, but we already had discussed them on a smaller group and partially implemented them (until i got too busy ^^;) 16:03 <+Lord-Simon> no 16:03 <+Lord-Simon> I will be here 16:03 <+Lord-Simon> for the next few hours 16:04 <+Lord-Simon> I can look out for him 16:04 < cloudii> "Wrong link leading to the wiki's Copyrights page." 16:04 < cloudii> DarkoNeko can do that, right? 8D 16:04 < Kira0802> we'll just vote on issues and ask TLG to approve, and the decision belongs to him 16:04 <&DarkoNeko> yeah, that has little to do with TLG lol 16:04 < cloudii> We could do what Kira said too 16:04 <+Lord-Simon> ah 16:04 < Lery> Yeah, that's jsut a 16:04 < Lery> Yeah, that's just a ".net" at the bad place 16:04 < Misogi> Not really. 16:05 -!- wet [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:05 <&DarkoNeko> yes, details of link change later, please 16:05 <+Lord-Simon> @DarkoNeko, do you have access to the blog ? 16:05 < cloudii> DarkoNeko, as a wiki sysop, can you assign usergroups powers or is that no? 16:05 < Misogi> Already written? 16:05 <+Lord-Simon> Of B-T ? 16:05 < Misogi> .* 16:05 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, I can assign people to select groups, but I cannot create new groups 16:05 -!- kry [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:06 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, not tha tI know of 16:06 < cloudii> Thanks, so you can't help us xD 16:06 < cloudii> Let's go to groups reorganization 16:06 < cloudii> rename exactly who to remove off the groups 16:06 < cloudii> and who to put on 16:06 < Lery> @Lord-Simon : I think Kira0802 has access to the blog... 16:06 < hayashi> that's more for forums, right? 16:06 < Misogi> Inactive members, that's a given. 16:06 <&DarkoNeko> defining inactivity. is that "over a year" ? 16:06 < Misogi> I'd rather say 6 months. 16:06 <+Lord-Simon> So, we are now discussing the Users of certain groups 16:06 < kry> its "ever since forever" 16:06 <&DarkoNeko> and condition for them to get the right back if they come back, as well 16:06 < cloudii> We're also talking about forum usergroups 16:07 <+Lord-Simon> and the rearrangement ? 16:07 <&DarkoNeko> eh, do that on the forum, I'm only interested in the wiki :D 16:07 < zzhk> I think DarkoNeko misunderstood cloudii's question on wiki user groups, rather than creating new groups﹐ can you modify a group's powers? 16:07 < cloudii> brb 16:07 -!- krytyk [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07 < Misogi> Well, remove all inactive members from all groups. 16:07 < Lery> Why remove them ? Just add new people if old people go MIA 16:07 -!- kry is now known as krytyk 16:07 < Misogi> In case they get hacked. 16:08 < Misogi> That's a decent reason. 16:08 < Vallor> Inactive members -> people who didn't posted any work since 6 months at least, or people we don't have news since a while? 16:08 <&DarkoNeko> zzhk, not that I know of 16:08 < Lery> Well, from that POV, I think it's true the more people with rights, the more risks we have that someone get hacked. 16:08 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, it's so people don't ask inactive to do things 16:08 <+Lord-Simon> Well, I can edit Digital Editors, Project Editors and tsukaima legion 16:08 <&DarkoNeko> but yeah, there's also the hacking possibility 16:09 <+Lord-Simon> well 16:09 <&DarkoNeko> hmm 16:09 < krytyk> wait. separate wiki and forums issues 16:09 <&DarkoNeko> anyway, let's simplify the motion for now. 16:09 < krytyk> now we are talking about wiki 16:09 < rock96> Judging by what I've seen, no need to discuss Tsukaima Legion 16:09 < zzhk> is there any incentive to hack B-T wiki accounts, however? 16:09 < krytyk> forums later. 16:09 < Lery> @Lord-Simon : isn't that on the forum ? 16:09 <+Lord-Simon> yes 16:09 < Lery> ok 16:09 <+Lord-Simon> are we talking about the wiki ? 16:09 <&DarkoNeko> zzhk, the same as hacking wikiepdia admin account, but people do 16:09 < Misogi> A spammer with a hacked account will cause more damage. 16:10 < Lery> Are we discussing about forum's groups or wiki's currently ? 16:10 < Misogi> Wiki. 16:10 < Misogi> Forum is kept for TLG. 16:10 < Vallor> Misogi: A ban wouldn't be enough? 16:10 < cloudii> I see no particular reason to remove inactive Wiki supervisors, if we have a single location for placing administrative requests 16:10 < Misogi> You have to clean up the mess. 16:10 < Lery> Actually Oni has the needed rights to do the needed modifications on the forum... 16:11 < Kira0802> cloudii is right 16:11 <&DarkoNeko> I feel we should have a minimum activity setting for removal, nonetheless. even if it's a long long time 16:11 < Vallor> Misogi: You just have to delete all the recent changes... 16:11 < hayashi> it's more for decluttering 16:11 <+Lord-Simon> well, there is the http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ActiveUsers 16:11 <+Lord-Simon> but it's limited to the last 30 days 16:11 < cloudii> that's one month activity 16:11 < Vallor> remove* 16:11 < cloudii> I was just reminded of something.... 16:12 < cloudii> Do we have protocol for dealing with inactive project supervisors? 16:12 < hayashi> nope 16:12 < Kira0802> no 16:12 <&DarkoNeko> none 16:12 <+Lord-Simon> No 16:12 < cloudii> okay, do we want protocol? 16:12 <&DarkoNeko> I do 16:12 <+Lord-Simon> Yes 16:12 -!- victorrama [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12 < Kira0802> RIP Nera. ;_; 16:12 < cloudii> Okay, I'll propose something on the spot 16:12 <+Lord-Simon> Protocol is always good 16:12 <&DarkoNeko> since there wil lbe dissent on the exact duration, we should take the longest for now 16:12 < cloudii> 6 months inactivity is definition for inactvity 16:13 < rock96> all hail commie wiki 16:13 < cloudii> Someone who would like the position 16:13 <&DarkoNeko> I propose that anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose his right 16:13 < cloudii> should contact a Wiki Supervisor 16:13 < cloudii> The Wiki Supervisor 16:13 <+Lord-Simon> hello 16:13 < cloudii> can judge whether the Project Supervisor 16:13 < cloudii> should be replaced 16:13 <+Lord-Simon> or sysop ? 16:13 < Kira0802> kk 16:13 < cloudii> the end 16:13 <&DarkoNeko> and that, should they come back withing a year after that, could regain those rights on simple demand 16:13 < Vallor> cloudii: what's your definition of 'inactivity'? 16:13 < cloudii> Hmm... 16:13 <&DarkoNeko> no action on wiki 16:13 <&DarkoNeko> none at all 16:14 < cloudii> I think that, anyone should be able to place a request 16:14 < hayashi> what's the current setting anyway 16:14 < cloudii> to be instated over an apparent Project Supervisor 16:14 < hayashi> the project super defaults to the head translator? 16:14 < cloudii> but for reference of the Administration 16:14 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, you're kinda assumed we have a limited number of seats 16:14 < Kira0802> no action, no sign of presence, no demand of absence 16:14 <&DarkoNeko> -ed+ing 16:14 <+Lord-Simon> brb 16:14 < cloudii> @hayashi, nothing. There name just stays there. 16:15 < hayashi> the 2nd thing is 16:15 < hayashi> what rights do project supers have 16:15 < cloudii> All rights with regards to the project... 16:15 < cloudii> which is a lot 16:15 < Vallor> Kira0802: No sign of presence on the wiki or on the forum too? 16:15 < Kira0802> yeah 16:15 < Kira0802> boh 16:15 < cloudii> For example: "British English vs American English, etc" 16:16 < Vallor> Kira0802: ok, thx 16:16 < cloudii> Okay, so we can just say: 16:16 <&DarkoNeko> uh, so, we include the forum ? meh 16:16 < cloudii> 1) If a Project Supervisor has no sign of presence on the wiki or on the forum too, a translator can request to become to new project supervisor 16:16 <+Lord-Simon> Darko 16:16 <&DarkoNeko> me 16:16 <+Lord-Simon> Go create an account 16:16 <&DarkoNeko> no. 16:16 <+Lord-Simon> I'll answer the question 16:16 <+Lord-Simon> GO 16:17 < Kira0802> on the wiki and on the forums*, cloudii 16:17 < hayashi> lol 16:17 <&DarkoNeko> i have nothing to do there 16:17 < hayashi> neko 16:17 < Kira0802> oh wait 16:17 < Kira0802> misread 16:17 < Kira0802> w/e 16:17 < cloudii> (I just copy pasted) lol 16:17 <&DarkoNeko> for me, there is only the wiki, and IRC 16:17 <+Lord-Simon> damn cat 16:17 <+Lord-Simon> what if I give you an acc ? 16:17 <&DarkoNeko> wikipedia ain't need no stinking forums 16:17 <&DarkoNeko> no. 16:17 < Vallor> If you're active on the wiki, that's enough. 16:17 <&DarkoNeko> I won't use it. I don't have time to read forums 16:18 < Kira0802> No sign of presence means no one has seen you 16:18 < Kira0802> this includes forums and wiki 16:18 < cloudii> Forum & Wiki or Wiki Only? 16:18 <&DarkoNeko> well, before that, let's do a more genera thing 16:18 < cloudii> vote 16:18 <&DarkoNeko> no, no, no, that's too precise 16:18 < Kira0802> Forum & Wiki 16:18 < cloudii> DarkoNeko explain? 16:18 < Vallor> I'd add social networks/mails as well... 16:18 <&DarkoNeko> so, starting with basics : 16:19 < Kira0802> If a supervisor's not there on the wiki and just on the forums, you can throw a PM at him 16:19 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, we were talking about inactivity in general, now you're on proejcts supervisors on particular 16:19 < cloudii> project supervisors in general 16:19 < cloudii> in this instance 16:19 < cloudii> because there's only one position for it 16:19 <&DarkoNeko> "anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose his rights on the wiki." 16:19 < cloudii> Are we voting? 16:19 <+Lord-Simon> as a project supervisors 16:19 <+Lord-Simon> *r 16:20 < Kira0802> project admins/supervisors 16:20 <+Lord-Simon> Hmm... 16:20 <&DarkoNeko> do project supervisors have physical rights ? 16:20 < Kira0802> a random editor doesn't need to have his rights revoked, since we don't care 16:20 <&DarkoNeko> I'm talking about wiki groups ^^; 16:20 < Kira0802> project editors can lock pages 16:20 < cloudii> @DarkoNeko. There is no project supervisor wiki group 16:20 < Kira0802> supervisors* 16:20 <&DarkoNeko> then they're on a particular group 16:20 < Kira0802> @cloudii there is 16:20 < Kira0802> well 16:20 < cloudii> there's a wiki supervisor group 16:20 < Kira0802> just "supervisor" though 16:21 <&DarkoNeko> let's do that on a few sets, then. 1) general activity 2) specifically for project supervisor replacement ? 16:21 < cloudii> yes, and we've taken tht�at to mean "Adminstration" 16:21 < Lery> Actually a lot of Project Supervisor aren't even Wiki Supervisors... 16:21 < cloudii> ^^ 16:21 < Kira0802> that's not intended 16:21 < Kira0802> though. 16:21 <&DarkoNeko> all the more reason to have 2 separate motions 16:21 < cloudii> Can we start with DarkoNeko's motion? 16:21 < hayashi> wiki super and project super are two different level right 16:21 <+Lord-Simon> Well, because the projects have two things 16:22 <+Lord-Simon> as supervisor and an admin 16:22 <+Lord-Simon> in name only 16:22 < Misogi> We should rename it with "Project Manager" 16:22 < Lery> What's the point in having an Project Admin and a Project Supervisor, by the way ? What's the differences between both ? 16:22 < krytyk> ^Like misogi says 16:22 < Lery> -an+a 16:22 < krytyk> Supervisor is unclear at this point 16:22 < cloudii> Imo, project supervisor should not have to be an official member of administration 16:22 < hayashi> project admin is a carry over from the old days I think 16:22 < Vallor> Yeah, administrators and supervisors are a big mess, especially for Alt. laguages 16:22 < krytyk> there are wiki supervisors, and project supervisors 16:22 < Kira0802> Alt. languages are a big mess 16:22 < cloudii> I would like project supervisor to be the senior/leading translator 16:22 <&DarkoNeko> we're drfiting away again ._. 16:22 <+Lord-Simon> For me, as I see it. 16:22 < Kira0802> it's not about supervisors/admins for alt projects 16:23 < krytyk> Okay, can I write out few problems and possible solutions? 16:23 < Lery> And the project admin to be someone with Wiki Supervisor Rights ? 16:23 < stellarroze> my oh my 16:23 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, a bit later~ 16:23 < Kira0802> fuck 16:23 < Kira0802> this is getting confusing 16:23 < krytyk> its for this topic~ 16:23 < stellarroze> merge project supervisors and administrators 16:23 <+Lord-Simon> The project admin is a person who is responsible for the project and that the guidelines of the project are "used/enforced". 16:23 <&DarkoNeko> arg, mergin and renaming LATER 16:23 < Lery> ^+1 16:23 < stellarroze> into one position 16:23 < Kira0802> they are meant for different things 16:23 < Misogi> To avoid confusion, "Project Sup. -> Project Manager". 16:23 < Misogi> Can be anyone. 16:23 <&DarkoNeko> the subject is inactivity and then project supervisor replacement for now 16:23 < Vallor> Admins and supervisors should be a single group renamed on 'project manager' 16:24 <+Lord-Simon> The supervisor is a person who can be contacted and knows some details about that project. 16:24 <&DarkoNeko> all the rest is for after 16:24 < krytyk> we talk about Wiki supervisors or project supervisors darko 16:24 < krytyk> thats the peoint 16:24 < krytyk> point* 16:24 < Kira0802> Imagine the difference of wiki right an editor has in comparison with a TLer. Now, change editor to admin and TLer to supervisor 16:24 < krytyk> make it clear 16:24 < Kira0802> that's how I see the diff 16:24 <&DarkoNeko> I'm talking about inactivity 16:24 <+Lord-Simon> Better is that the Supervisor, is a real supervisor and can lock and protect pages 16:24 < Lery> Inactivity was already well defined I think... 16:24 < krytyk> yes, but you mean supervisors with rights, or project supervisors 16:24 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, but not voted 16:24 < Lery> Lord-Simon +1 16:24 < cloudii> I disagree with Simon 16:25 < Kira0802> Can we just merge Project supervisors with Wiki supervisors? 16:25 < Lery> But the Project Admin, right ? 16:25 <+Lord-Simon> No 16:25 <&DarkoNeko> krytyk, the first point is anyone being in a right group on the wiki, the 2nd point will be about local project (LN) managers 16:25 < krytyk> no 16:25 < krytyk> exactly 16:25 < cloudii> because there's a lot of translators who would like to manage their projects 16:25 <&DarkoNeko> so, let's get the first point ou t of the way, please 16:25 < krytyk> so you talk about wiki supervisors and their inactivity 16:25 < krytyk> now we can vote. 16:25 < cloudii> Actually, I favor going back to DarkoNeko's topic 16:25 <&DarkoNeko> not wiki supervisor. any group with more right than the defaulty 16:25 < Lery> The Project Supervisor becomes Project Manager and the Project Admin has to have Supervisors' rights... 16:26 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ListGroupRights <- we have all those groups 16:26 < Lery> What's the point about voting to define inactivity ??? 16:26 < Vallor> What exactly are we talking about right now? About groups or inactivity? 16:26 <&DarkoNeko> so 16:26 < cloudii> Simon, you're the chair ;) 16:26 < rock96> Shuffling with editors and translators is going to be the pain... 16:26 <+Lord-Simon> Ok 16:26 -!- nanodesuyo [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:26 <+Lord-Simon> First of all 16:27 <+Lord-Simon> we are voting for the inactivity period 16:27 < cloudii> Okay, DarkoNeko, can you repeat what we're voting for? 16:27 <&DarkoNeko> "anyone with over a year of inactivity will lose their special rights on the wiki." 16:27 < cloudii> Can we define special rights? 16:27 < Vallor> I don't like the '2 groups' idea... 16:27 <+Lord-Simon> one thing I wanted to say 16:28 -!- masoatwork [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:28 -!- masoatwork is now known as victorrama 16:28 <+Lord-Simon> do we really want a year inactivity ? 16:28 <&DarkoNeko> any group they were put in (editor, supervisor, etc) 16:28 -!- Gwilthyunman [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:28 < krytyk> anyone above user 16:28 < Vallor> 6 months aren't enough? 16:28 < Kira0802> special rights on the wiki.-->Project supervisor/admins 16:28 < hayashi> ^ 16:28 <+Lord-Simon> My point is 16:28 <&DarkoNeko> Lord-Simon, it's purposelly large for now 16:28 <+Lord-Simon> It is. 16:28 <+Lord-Simon> Because 16:28 < krytyk> 6 months... unless they mentioned being away prior to that 16:28 <&DarkoNeko> I'm fairly sure we have people with 4 years od inactivity in those groups 16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 1. The passwords on the wiki are weak 16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 2 16:29 <&DarkoNeko> even wikipedia gives a 12 months period 16:29 <+Lord-Simon> 2. There is no password change enforcement. 16:29 <&DarkoNeko> both the french and the english version, as far as I know 16:29 < cloudii> Okay, so can I make a proposal? 16:29 <+Lord-Simon> go on 16:29 < Vallor> DarkoNeko: Everyone don't post everyday on Wikipedia... 16:29 < cloudii> 1). One year of inactivty = loss of physical wiki rights 16:29 < cloudii> 2). If you end up coming back, talk to a sysop to be reinstated 16:30 <&DarkoNeko> Vallor, wikipedia admins are supposed to be active epopel 16:30 < Kira0802> fine 16:30 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, exactly 16:30 < cloudii> vote? 16:30 <&DarkoNeko> approve 16:30 < Kira0802> I can agree on that 16:30 < Kira0802> Yea 16:30 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, vote 16:30 < Cthaeh> vote yes 16:30 < rock96> yes 16:30 < Lery> yes 16:30 < hayashi> mondai nai 16:30 < krytyk> y 16:30 <&DarkoNeko> vote y 16:30 < Vallor> yes 16:30 < victorrama> Yea 16:30 <+Lord-Simon> yes, even if I'm sceptical 16:31 < Vallor> (I'm sure 6 months are good enough though) 16:31 < Kira0802> (Same) 16:31 < cloudii> (I personally don't care) 16:31 < Vallor> ^^ 16:31 < rock96> (Not really) 16:31 * DarkoNeko thinks he already has been inactive for 6 months 16:31 < cloudii> xD but can we move along? 16:31 < rock96> lol 16:31 < Vallor> You can 16:31 <+Lord-Simon> Vote : all approve 16:31 <+Lord-Simon> lol 16:31 < Misogi> Yes 16:32 <&DarkoNeko> well, not recently but somewhere between now and 2006 16:32 <+Lord-Simon> yes 16:32 < cloudii> okay, now onto the topic of the project/wiki supervisors........ 16:32 < Kira0802> You can mark the length with an asterisk if it can be debated 16:32 <+Lord-Simon> Nect point ? 16:32 * Lery laught 16:32 <&DarkoNeko> so, secondary inactivity point, about the project leaders 16:32 < cloudii> OH right forgot 16:32 < cloudii> DarkoNeko's thing xD 16:32 * DarkoNeko blushes 16:32 <&DarkoNeko> what thing ? 16:32 * DarkoNeko hides 16:32 <+Lord-Simon> black thing 16:32 * Lord-Simon blushes 16:32 < cloudii> Okay: we left off on this 16:33 < Vallor> ... 16:33 < cloudii> inactivity defined as: Wiki only or total presence (including social media) 16:33 < Misogi> Total. 16:33 <&DarkoNeko> oh 16:33 <&DarkoNeko> uh. 16:33 < Misogi> I mean, there may be reasons. 16:33 <&DarkoNeko> let's keep that vague 16:33 < Kira0802> dunno for social media 16:33 <&DarkoNeko> let's say forum and wiki both count 16:33 < cloudii> I'm for keeping it vague xD 16:34 < Kira0802> i'm not going to add a random guy on Facebook to talk to him about BT 16:34 < Misogi> "Any lack of presence" 16:34 <+Lord-Simon> Reachability 16:34 <&DarkoNeko> but ... well, social media, as in chatting with them on facebook or twitter ? that's stretching it 16:34 < Kira0802> even though I'm already doing it. 16:34 <+Lord-Simon> that's what we are talking about 16:34 < Lery> Let's say you're active as long as you're sometimes on any BT-media... 16:34 < krytyk> as long as you show signs of life 16:34 < krytyk> lets leave it ambigious 16:34 < krytyk> but everyone knwos what it means 16:34 < Kira0802> Someone can check inactivity 16:34 < krytyk> lets not overcomplicate 16:34 < Lery> Yeah 16:34 <&DarkoNeko> that seems like stretching it 16:34 < cloudii> 1). If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive 16:34 < Misogi> Or unless it was told beforehand. 16:35 <&DarkoNeko> we can easily check activity with the last post on the forum, or last edit on the wiki 16:35 <&DarkoNeko> but anything else if but a fuzzy thing, it's not hard data 16:35 < cloudii> 2). A translator may put in a request with Adminsitration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor 16:35 < Kira0802> Let's settle for "has shown no sign of life" 16:35 < cloudii> and leave it to sysops/admins to decide 16:35 < Vallor> My point is inactivity should be 'people we don't have news since X months' 16:35 < cloudii> on a case-by case basis 16:35 < krytyk> lets discuss the subjects inactivity when we come down to it 16:35 < Lery> We could add in the rule that the said person is first asked through PM wheter (s)he's still active... 16:35 <+Lord-Simon> I'll say no to the no 2 16:35 < Lery> or not* 16:35 <+Lord-Simon> "as the new Project Supervisor" 16:35 < Kira0802> Nay to 2 16:36 < Kira0802> You leave it blank 16:36 < Kira0802> for the time being 16:36 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, hm, I don't really want people to just do 1 edit to keep their rights and then go awol for ayear again 16:36 < Lery> No, I disagree to 2 because we are mixing Project Supervisor with Wiki Supervisor there.... 16:36 < cloudii> okay 16:36 < Misogi> May I propose something? (Will be long) 16:37 < cloudii> go ahead 16:37 < Vallor> DarkoNeko: +1 16:37 < Lery> Well, it'd be more polite from us to warn them first, no ? 16:37 < Misogi> First, rename Project Supervisors into Project Managers. 16:37 < Lery> Imagine we were to remove your Wiki rights because you were inactive for 370 days, you'd be pissed, no ? 16:37 < rock96> We can keep Supervisors busy before they go into the dark again, right? *grin* 16:37 <&DarkoNeko> Lery, I wouldn't notice, since I wasn't there :D 16:37 < Misogi> Anyone can become Manager. 16:37 < cloudii> Misogi +1 16:37 <&DarkoNeko> but from experience, yeah, a few ex wiki admin took it badly 16:37 < krytyk> lets listen to misogi now 16:38 < Kira0802> OK, fine with that 16:38 < krytyk> talking over one another is rude 16:38 <&DarkoNeko> even tho they were warned on their user talk page 16:38 < Vallor> Misogi: +1 16:38 < Lery> It costs us nothing to warn firstly I think 16:38 <&DarkoNeko> yes, a message on talk page 16:38 < Lery> @Misogi +1 16:38 <&DarkoNeko> ok, lemme add that on wiki 16:38 <+Lord-Simon> So, now we have "Project Admin" and "Project Managers" ? 16:39 < cloudii> So in this system: 1) Project Administrators are "Wiki supervisors" 2). Project Managers can be anymore (but preferably head translator) 16:39 <&DarkoNeko> Project Supervisors into Project Managers <- a short reason why ? do they have a particular physicial right currently ? 16:39 < Kira0802> I'm ok with that 16:39 < Misogi> For 1, Supervisors or above. 16:39 <+Lord-Simon> I'm confused by that too 16:39 < cloudii> Project Supervisors have no mod rights, but they have all rights with regards to translations 16:39 < cloudii> like "British English vs. American English" 16:39 < Lery> Well the term is currently misleading since Project Supervisors aren't official Wiki Supervisors 16:39 <+Lord-Simon> Because I see an admin responsible for the project 16:39 < Misogi> Well, it's to avoid confusions between Project and Wiki. 16:39 <&DarkoNeko> so, they're informal translation project leaders, in other words 16:39 < Kira0802> Let's replace project Admins by Wiki supervisor then 16:39 < cloudii> exactly, DarkoNeko 16:40 < Kira0802> no need to stay vague 16:40 <+Lord-Simon> Supervisors is the person who oversees if everything is ok, more or less 16:40 < cloudii> 1). Rename Project Admin to Wiki Supervisor 16:40 < Lery> @Kira0802 +1 16:40 <+Lord-Simon> and enters the scene when there are problems 16:40 < cloudii> 2). Rename Project Supervisor to Project Manager 16:40 < cloudii> Project manager can be anyone but does not have mod rights 16:40 <&DarkoNeko> Translation project leader sounds better to me 16:40 <&DarkoNeko> it's more self explanatory 16:40 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 16:40 < cloudii> Project Leader? 16:40 < Misogi> Nah, I disagree. 16:40 <&DarkoNeko> project can be understood as the wiki as a whjole 16:40 < krytyk> Project bancho 16:41 < rock96> ...cult leader... 16:41 < Cthaeh> +1 project leader 16:41 <+Lord-Simon> nani ? 16:41 < hayashi> head translator 16:41 < krytyk> ^ 16:41 < Lery> Leader sounds grandly to me... 16:41 < hayashi> would be simplier 16:41 < Kira0802> no 16:41 <+Lord-Simon> no 16:41 <&DarkoNeko> hmm 16:41 < Kira0802> head translator != project leader 16:41 <+Lord-Simon> hayashi, no 16:41 < cloudii> We have situations like Log Horizon 16:41 < Kira0802> see campione. 16:41 < cloudii> where the head translator isn't even on the wiki 16:41 <&DarkoNeko> head translator aslo has a feel of "above translators", but not related to a project in particular 16:41 < Misogi> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager" ; "Project Adminstrator -> Supervisor in charge" 16:42 <+Lord-Simon> Misogi +1 16:42 <&DarkoNeko> urg, my poor head XD 16:42 < cloudii> Misogi -1, I'm sorry xD 16:42 < Kira0802> Who's that "Supervisor in charge"? 16:42 < Kira0802> Wiki sup? 16:42 < hayashi> wiki supers 16:42 <+Lord-Simon> remove the " in charge" 16:42 < cloudii> Prefer Kira's, "Wiki Supervisor" 16:42 < Misogi> I don't like putting "wiki" on a project. 16:42 <&DarkoNeko> wiki supervisor doesn't sound local to a translation project at all 16:42 < Misogi> post* 16:42 < rock96> Maybe get rid of Project Administrators entirely? 'Cept for special cases like Haganai 16:42 < Kira0802> ...Supervisor then? 16:42 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, let's do the following 16:43 < Kira0802> Just remove the "wiki" part 16:43 < Misogi> Ok then. Supervisor is enough. 16:43 < Vallor> 'Supervisor' is good 16:43 < cloudii> Alright, now Misogi +1 16:43 < cloudii> <3 16:43 <+Lord-Simon> as of now, no project has any "Project Adminstrator", not "Project Supervisor" 16:43 < rock96> Haganai? 16:43 < Kira0802> every project has a project admin 16:43 <&DarkoNeko> so, to have the def right : "supervisors are ... ?" 16:43 <+Lord-Simon> Create a name 16:43 <+Lord-Simon> and give it a meaning 16:43 < Kira0802> when it's blank, it's Onizuka-GTO by default 16:43 < Kira0802> lol 16:44 < Vallor> Supervisors are supervisors. 16:44 < cloudii> Well, http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3194 16:44 < Misogi> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (anyone)" ; "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above" 16:44 < cloudii> To represent Oni's voice 16:44 < cloudii> and TLG who is not here 16:44 < cloudii> they once spoke about this topic 16:44 <+Lord-Simon> So... 16:44 <&DarkoNeko> supervisor imply it doesn't need to have much hand in the making, i like that 16:44 <+Lord-Simon> Vote for Misogi's option ?: "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (anyone)" ; "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above" 16:44 < cloudii> Yes 16:45 < krytyk> that should be okay. 16:45 < krytyk> yes 16:45 < Kira0802> Yea 16:45 < Lery> It's true that most project have an N/A as Project Admin / Supervisor currently... 16:45 < Vallor> Yeah 16:45 < Misogi> Yes (although I may not count) 16:45 < Lery> yes 16:45 < Cthaeh> yes, vote 16:45 <&DarkoNeko> i'd have preferred "translation project manager" for clarity, but I'll take that 16:45 < cloudii> Onizuka once voiced TLG's opinion that all the positions need to be filled 16:46 < cloudii> Okay, resolved? 16:46 < rock96> 'K, I think 16:46 < cloudii> Okay, so backtrack to the last point 16:46 <+Lord-Simon> no 16:46 < cloudii> Project Manager inactivity? 16:46 <&DarkoNeko> so 16:46 <&DarkoNeko> wait 16:46 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 16:46 <&DarkoNeko> Project Manager, does he need to be one of rhe translators ? 16:46 < Kira0802> No, 16:46 < rock96> Not really? 16:46 <+Lord-Simon> no 16:46 -!- coldacid [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:46 < Lery> No 16:46 < cloudii> usually, but doesn't have to be 16:46 <&DarkoNeko> that sounds a bit weird 16:46 < Misogi> No, but it'd be better. 16:46 < Kira0802> It's not. 16:47 < Misogi> It can be an editor. 16:47 < Kira0802> An editor can do the job. 16:47 < cloudii> should be the most invested individual in the project 16:47 < Misogi> Or someone else more experienced on BT. 16:47 < Lery> Well, Project Manager should be able to use the wiki correctly and to take decision when it's needed, that's it. 16:47 < Vallor> Why an editor wouldn't have th rights to be a project manager...? 16:47 <&DarkoNeko> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#project_leading_and_supervisions <- is that formulation ok with everyone ? 16:47 < Vallor> the right* 16:47 < Misogi> He can. 16:47 < Vallor> That's what I'm saying 16:47 < Lery> except for the "fo" and the "z" :P 16:48 <&DarkoNeko> meh, correcting 16:48 <&DarkoNeko> "Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (usually one of the translators or editors)" 16:48 <&DarkoNeko> "Project Administrator -> Supervisor (wiki supervisor or above)" 16:48 < rock96> No, don;t 16:48 < krytyk> well as long as its the highest authority when it comes to shape of the project 16:48 < krytyk> it can be either tl or editor 16:48 < rock96> We're a lazy bunch, alright 16:48 <+Lord-Simon> @DarkoNeko, yes. 16:48 <&DarkoNeko> tio be hoenst, supervisors don't *want* to have to manage local projects 16:48 < Misogi> The Manager can also be an experienced member of BT, if the TL is inexperienced with BT. 16:48 <&DarkoNeko> we're just there to be consulted in case of questions or problems 16:48 < Lery> That's the point in having Project Manager ;) 16:48 < Misogi> (Which is what I do.) 16:49 <+Lord-Simon> ^^^ 16:49 < Lery> Well, Misogi, you're a supervisor too. 16:49 < cloudii> Are we resolved here? 16:49 < Kira0802> is this matter settled? 16:49 < Misogi> Yes. 16:49 <+Lord-Simon> Darko ? 16:50 < Lery> Yes 16:50 <+Lord-Simon> DarkoNeko, you there. Are you alive ? 16:50 * DarkoNeko breathes 16:50 <&DarkoNeko> yes, yes I am 16:50 <+Lord-Simon> Ok 16:50 <+Lord-Simon> then to the next topic 16:50 <+Lord-Simon> or poin 16:50 <+Lord-Simon> t 16:51 < cloudii> We never voted on Project Manager inactivity 16:51 <&DarkoNeko> yes, that's the next point 16:51 < Lery> Didn't we ? 16:51 <&DarkoNeko> nope 16:51 <+Lord-Simon> So, as darko has written: 16:51 <+Lord-Simon> If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive 16:51 <+Lord-Simon> A translator may put in a request with Adminsitration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor 16:51 < rock96> let's just make it that if no one can reach the Manager then we start the clock? 16:52 <+Lord-Simon> Define the time span 16:52 < Misogi> 6 months here. 16:52 <&DarkoNeko> do wer define a minimu activity ? it feels better to be cvague here 16:52 < rock96> In this case 6 months, yeah 16:52 < Lery> Yeah, that's fine so. Let's say 3 months 16:52 <&DarkoNeko> you don't want to wait 3 months to do soemthing because that guy isn't here 16:52 < cloudii> Um, I favor no time span on this 16:52 < Kira0802> off topic guys, but my IP has been blocked 16:52 < Lery> An active project has to be responsive... 16:52 < cloudii> Say for example Hatamaou gets a no-name Project Manager 16:52 <&DarkoNeko> most translators/editors would be gone after such a time 16:52 <+Lord-Simon> I'd go with the suggestion that rock96 made 16:52 < cloudii> but they vanish after 2 weeks 16:52 < Lery> Again ? You spammer :P 16:52 < cloudii> what then? 16:52 <+Lord-Simon> "let's just make it that if no one can reach the Manager then we start the clock?" 16:52 < Misogi> Hmm... perhaps we should describe the situation. 16:53 < cloudii> We never described the protocol for becoming Project Manager 16:53 < hayashi> managers should be reachable 16:53 < Kira0802> I'll go with 6 months 16:53 < hayashi> at least in a week 16:53 < Misogi> For inactive projects, no problems (it's usually above 6 months). 16:53 < hayashi> no one's going to wait 6 months 16:53 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, typically it's the translation project creator 16:53 -!- victorrama [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53 < Misogi> For active projects, it can be less. 3 months. 16:53 < cloudii> � 16:53 < cloudii> exactly 16:53 -!- DefaultMelody [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:53 < cloudii> but that's why they tend to vanish 16:53 <&DarkoNeko> hm 16:53 < Kira0802> well 16:53 < cloudii> I think the Project Manager should be reachable within one week 16:54 < Vallor> if the project manager has disappeared since 6 months, any translator/editor of the project can become the new manager, with the consent of the supervisor 16:54 < cloudii> that's a very reasonable expectation 16:54 < rock96> Nah, for extrememly active projects we need to greatly reduce the time span... 16:54 <+Lord-Simon> Let's go with a week after the Manages is not reachable. 16:54 <&DarkoNeko> a fixed duration feels wrong here. We could add that if the project manager isn't available, anyone that is should be free to do his role in the interim 16:54 < Kira0802> a week for removal? 16:54 <+Lord-Simon> Week is a good time span. In general. 16:54 < Vallor> That was my point 16:54 < cloudii> Place the power in Administration for mo�aking case-by-case decisions 16:54 < Kira0802> hell, if I'M off to china for 3 months, what happens? 16:54 < cloudii> don't specify a week 16:54 < Cthaeh> opposed to week 16:54 <+Lord-Simon> A week for action 16:54 <&DarkoNeko> and only have a proper, official replacement after the duration of your choice (a month ? 3 months ?) 16:54 <&DarkoNeko> Kira0802, if you warned first it's different 16:54 < Lery> Let's say that two week of non declared hiatus is too much 16:54 <+Lord-Simon> After that, the supervisor has to take a look 16:55 -!- xiiao [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:55 < Kira0802> I'll go with 10 days 16:55 < Lery> If you go to china for 3 months, if you're polite, you would warn first :P 16:55 < Misogi> We'll add that to the admin contact page. 16:55 <+Lord-Simon> ^^taht 16:55 < Misogi> I'll go with one month. 16:55 -!- masoatwork [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 16:55 -!- masoatwork is now known as victorrama 16:55 <+Lord-Simon> Well, Misogi.. 16:56 < Misogi> At least, in case of unexpected absences. 16:56 <+Lord-Simon> If I understand correctly 16:56 <&DarkoNeko> hmm, no matter the choice of duration, i propose to add "a project manager may designate someone as interim if he knows he'll be unavailble for a while" 16:56 <+Lord-Simon> it's all about the Translators and the Adminst 16:56 <+Lord-Simon> *managers 16:56 < Lery> As long as we distinguish the non-announced hiatus from the announced ones... 16:56 <+Lord-Simon> Ok, the situation: 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> There is a TL that is translating a novel 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> He requests an action or coordination from the manager 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> The manager does not respond 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 1 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> day 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 2 days 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> 3 days 16:57 <+Lord-Simon> and it goes on. 16:57 < Misogi> Ah, that ? 16:58 <+Lord-Simon> What is the limit, where you patience runs out. 16:58 < Misogi> Well, if it's the delay of contact, then 1-2 weeks will be good. 16:58 < cloudii> I'm in favor of 2 weeks 16:58 < Kira0802> 10 days 16:58 < cloudii> of unexcused absense 16:58 < hayashi> 1 week 16:58 < cloudii> "undeclared absense" 16:58 <&DarkoNeko> I propose to vote on one thing we probably all gagree with first 16:58 <&DarkoNeko> "If a project manager knows they'll be away for a while, they should designate a subtitute to take all decisions in their absence" 16:59 < cloudii> Sure 16:59 < hayashi> that I can agree with 16:59 <+Lord-Simon> yes 16:59 < rock96> no prob 16:59 <&DarkoNeko> one advance of saying that upfront is that everything else will necessary only apply to unannounced absences 16:59 < Vallor> of course 16:59 <&DarkoNeko> advantage* 16:59 < Lery> alright 16:59 * DarkoNeko add "the following only apply for unannounced absences" 17:00 < Misogi> Let's resume it. 17:00 <&DarkoNeko> ok 17:00 < hayashi> 1 week 17:00 < cloudii> Let's do nominations then votes? 17:00 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 17:00 < Lery> Let's do it two weeks then. 17:00 < cloudii> kira nominated 10 days 17:00 < cloudii> any other nominations? 17:00 * DarkoNeko groans 17:01 < cloudii> 1). 1 week 2). 2 weeks 3). 10 days 17:01 < cloudii> vote 17:01 <&DarkoNeko> I don't like having precise times for that 17:01 < Lery> Anyway, after one week of waiting, I guess anybody would already have contacted the Supervisor... 17:01 <&DarkoNeko> it's... too bureaucratic 17:01 < cloudii> Are they contacting the supervisor to ask if they can fill the position? 17:01 < Lery> Let's say : as soon as it reaches an Admin's ear and that it has been more than 10 days, then... 17:01 <&DarkoNeko> "if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion]/[do the thing]" ? 17:02 <+Lord-Simon> My suggestion is: 1) 1 week missing and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. 2) 2 weeks of non-activity or response, the place will be changed with another person 17:02 <+Lord-Simon> ^^ 17:02 <&DarkoNeko> hmm 17:02 <&DarkoNeko> so, after the first week, you designate a de facto substitute 17:02 <&DarkoNeko> and after [x] weeks, that person becomes the official project manager 17:02 <+Lord-Simon> Like that. To have at least a person who can do that 17:02 < Lery> Hell, that's a detail, don't we have tons of other matters to discuss ??? 17:02 <+Lord-Simon> or answers in time 17:02 < cloudii> imo… that feels even more bureaucratic…. but whatever 17:03 <&DarkoNeko> well, that imply that proijects have more than one person XD 17:03 < Lery> That's fine so 17:03 < Lery> Let's go with it 17:03 < Misogi> Just tell that it's a case-by-case request. 17:03 < Lery> Vote 17:03 <&DarkoNeko> with it, which one lol 17:03 < Kira0802> let's leave it tp "1 week to 2 weeks"? 17:03 -!- arczyx [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03 < Kira0802> leave it to* 17:03 <&DarkoNeko> "after a while" ? 17:03 < Kira0802> we can redefine that 17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "1) 1 week missing and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. 2) 2 weeks of non-activity or response, the place will be changed with another person" 17:03 <&DarkoNeko> hmm 17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "so, after the first week, you designate a de facto substitute" 17:03 <+Lord-Simon> "and after [x] weeks, that person becomes the official project manager" 17:04 < Kira0802> I can agree with that 17:04 < cloudii> 1 week missing de facto, 1 month official 17:04 <+Lord-Simon> also 17:04 <+Lord-Simon> " 17:02:05 Lord-Simon" 17:04 <+Lord-Simon> fauck 17:04 <+Lord-Simon> " "if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion]/[do the thing]" ?" 17:04 < cloudii> Actually, I favor Simon's more xD 17:04 < Kira0802> consult others first, then do it 17:05 < Kira0802> if there's disagreement, go to supervisor 17:05 < cloudii> if a request to the project manager goes unanswered within a few days, then [contact the supervisor for opinion] and ask to become the de-facto project manager? 17:05 < cloudii> That's what it translates to for me 17:05 <&DarkoNeko> uh, let's do a mix, then 17:05 <&DarkoNeko> "1) if a project manager is missing (minimum a week, and decision to take) and the project staff complains, reconsider the management and talk to them. A subtitute manager is designated amongst the active member of the translation project" 17:05 <&DarkoNeko> "2) after [2 ?] weeks of non-activity or response, the subtitute officially become the new manager" 17:06 <&DarkoNeko> and ther are decisions to take* 17:06 <+Lord-Simon> VOTE 17:06 < Kira0802> Yea 17:06 <+Lord-Simon> yes 17:06 < Cthaeh> opposed 17:06 < cloudii> For point 2, can we specify duration? 17:06 < rock96> Just add case by case, and I'm fine with this. 17:06 < cloudii> I strongly just favor a case-by-case basis approach 17:06 <&DarkoNeko> rock96, anything we decide here isn't a rock hard rule, tho, we need flexibility 17:07 < Kira0802> ehe 17:07 < Lery> yeah 17:07 <&DarkoNeko> Cthaeh, why ? 17:07 < rock96> Which is why I propose this~ 17:07 < Cthaeh> The danger I'm seeing here is that the translator forgets to say s/he will be gone for x-weeks, an editor (or translator with vastly different opinions) comes by and wants to make large changes, and then those large changes are made and the translator comes back after x weeks and is annoyed that something they considered important was completely changed 17:07 < Kira0802> rock 96, rock hard hehe 17:07 < Cthaeh> One example might be something like past/present tense 17:07 <&DarkoNeko> ..hmmm 17:07 < cloudii> I agree with Cthaeh 17:07 < Misogi> Same here. 17:07 < cloudii> which is why a case-by-case approach is much more flexible 17:07 < rock96> I wanna change the name *slams head into the wall* 17:07 < krytyk> so the editors who consult changes with translator exist? 17:07 < krytyk> i though thats just a myth 17:07 <&DarkoNeko> rhoo 17:07 < krytyk> thought* 17:08 * DarkoNeko pat pats krytyk 17:08 < Lery> @Cthaeh Special cases like BegginerXP and so one should always be treated as special anyway... 17:08 < cloudii> leaves it up to Administration to decide whether the replacement should occur 17:08 < Misogi> It exists. 17:08 < cloudii> It's a valid concern 17:08 <+Lord-Simon> My thought here was as a Manager and not a TL being a manager. Just the position of a Mangaer 17:08 < Kira0802> OK, so consultation first? 17:08 <&DarkoNeko> well, that's another case, then : "if the project manager has signifiant opposition with the other members of their project, what happens" ? 17:08 < cloudii> The Project Manager has the right to define all translation details for the project 17:08 <+Lord-Simon> That's a a given 17:08 < krytyk> manager being the authority on the project shape 17:09 < krytyk> stylistic wise 17:09 < cloudii> I would personally like to pile all of these issues onto the Supervisor to resolve XD 17:09 < cloudii> and handle it on a case-by-case basis 17:09 < Kira0802> fine 17:09 < krytyk> theres hardly anything else there, right 17:09 < cloudii> Supervisor can seek consultation from other supervisors 17:09 <+Lord-Simon> agree 17:09 * DarkoNeko groans at the potential issues 17:09 < cloudii> The caveat here is that Supervisors need to be named for all projects 17:10 < cloudii> *must 17:10 < cloudii> can no longer leave them blank 17:10 <+Lord-Simon> to the "and handle it on a case-by-case basis" and "Supervisor can seek consultation from other supervisors" 17:10 < cloudii> the supervisor doesn't have to be invested in the project. They're available for conflict resolution 17:10 <&DarkoNeko> all blanks are de facto affected to any and all supervisors 17:10 < krytyk> EVIL PLAN 1: name darko supervisor for all projects 17:10 <&DarkoNeko> i hate you 17:10 < krytyk> EVIL PLAN 1.1: Laugh 17:10 < Kira0802> if a project manager can't be trusted, s/he can't be a manager 17:11 < rock96> The outcome of EVIL PLAN: ban from wiki. 17:11 <&DarkoNeko> ok, let's add that, then 17:11 < cloudii> There are situations when we just have to be like nanodesuyo. If the manager is unsatisfactory (or generates a lot of resistence), the supervisor needs to stand up and say, sorry, but you can't be manager. 17:11 <&DarkoNeko> "the subtitute must be a trusted person from the project" 17:11 <&DarkoNeko> or something like that ? 17:11 <&DarkoNeko> as in, they chosoe it amongst themselves 17:11 < cloudii> Just let the supervisor decide...... 17:11 -!- KuroiHikari|m [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:12 < krytyk> The substitute must be a person already involved in project, and a reliable authority concerning it. 17:12 <&DarkoNeko> and the supervisor only nod, or refuse if there's a blablant problem 17:12 < Misogi> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, a supervisor can be asked to name another Project Manager" 17:12 <&DarkoNeko> the supervisor doesn't know each and every problem on the project 17:12 < Cthaeh> agree that supervisor should consult someone who is/has been active on the project in the case that a project manager change request is made 17:12 < krytyk> o/ kuro-chan 17:12 < cloudii> Misogi +1 17:12 <&DarkoNeko> we're outsider, if there's an annoying person we'll probably don't know until it's too late 17:12 < Vallor> Misogi: +1 17:12 < cloudii> the supervisor should consult with the entire project team though 17:12 < Lery> Let's say : the subsitute should be DarkoNeko, who will decide after studying the case who could take the lead if the real Manager were to really go MIA 17:12 < Misogi> Of course. 17:12 < Kira0802> Misogi: +1 17:12 < cloudii> but we can expect the supervisor to give an unbiased opinion 17:12 < Cthaeh> cloud put it better 17:13 <&DarkoNeko> ...tho, in my opinion, the manager should be someone people of his project trusts 17:13 <&DarkoNeko> you can't do a collaborative project with people you hate, it just doesn't work 17:13 < Kira0802> yeah, he can be sacked, i'm ok with that 17:13 <+Lord-Simon> ^ 17:13 < cloudii> personal conflicts are included with "management problems" 17:13 < Misogi> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on that case" 17:14 < Vallor> cloudii: +1 17:14 < hayashi> cool 17:14 <&DarkoNeko> Misogi, that's kind of a given already 17:14 < cloudii> I personally like how misogi worded the last one better xD 17:14 < cloudii> it's clearer 17:14 < Misogi> I tried to reformulate the rule. 17:14 < Kira0802> Someone make a statement? 17:15 -!- rock96 is now known as Lock 17:15 < Vallor> I agree with the misogi's last rule 17:15 < cloudii> No, I'd like the supervisor to have the power to legitimately select the Project Manager, after conslutation with the entire project team 17:15 < krytyk> "In cases of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask Supervisor to appoitn a new manager from among the current project staff." 17:15 < krytyk> appoint* 17:15 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, that's basically the equivalent of the team choosing themselves 17:15 < cloudii> I just think it's a power of the supervisor that should be clarified 17:15 < Misogi> "to statute on the Project Manager's nomination" ? 17:16 <&DarkoNeko> and the supervisor just saying "sure, why the hell not" 17:16 < cloudii> that's find too 17:16 -!- joay_b [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16 < cloudii> but I think it's a necessary moderating power 17:16 < krytyk> I believe supervisors know more or less background on projects 17:16 < krytyk> or can ask around on irc for example 17:16 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on the Project Manager's nomination." 17:16 < cloudii> krytyk +1 17:16 < Kira0802> Supervisor=Absolute unbiased authorioty under the great admins 17:16 < Kira0802> authority* 17:16 < cloudii> or misogi +1 17:16 < krytyk> so its not like they are completely clueless 17:16 < cloudii> XD 17:16 <&DarkoNeko> Kira0802, uniformed decisions can be misguided, and that's one supervisor saying :) 17:17 < krytyk> well, democracy sucks 17:17 < krytyk> thats why 17:17 < cloudii> You just have to be responsible and talk to the project team 17:17 <&DarkoNeko> dictature is fun as long as it's me 17:17 < cloudii> and try and make a decision based on past contributions 17:17 < cloudii> you can see the contributions log 17:17 < krytyk> 0, 17:17 < Misogi> Well then, may we decide what we'll vote? 17:17 < Kira0802> ^ 17:17 < cloudii> Misogi: "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on the Project Manager's nomination." 17:18 < Lery> Vote 17:18 < Lery> Yes 17:18 < cloudii> yes 17:18 < Kira0802> Yea 17:18 < Lock> yup 17:18 < Misogi> Yes, I guess. 17:18 < krytyk> ...make it more clear. No for the time being. 17:18 <&DarkoNeko> "A subtitute manager may be chosen by the remaining active member and approved by the supervisor" ? 17:18 < krytyk> "statute for nomination" is unclear. 17:18 < krytyk> that part. 17:18 < Misogi> I'll correct that. 17:18 -!- Jerl [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:18 -!- mode/#baka-tsuki [+ao Jerl Jerl] by [^_^] 17:18 < Gero-chan> Get out, p-pervert. 17:19 < cloudii> Disagree with DarkoNeko's 17:19 <&DarkoNeko> eeh 17:19 < cloudii> I still think supervisor should have total selection power 17:19 < Lery> Let's say that Darkoneko has to find a nice sentence to give the appropriate idea in the minutes... 17:19 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to statute on a temporary or permanent Project Manager nomination." 17:20 < hayashi> sounds fair 17:20 < hayashi> but you'll need active supers 17:20 < cloudii> "In the case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff can ask the Supervisor to nominate the Project Manager" 17:20 < Lery> Yeah, that's vague but vague is fine 17:20 <&DarkoNeko> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members" ? 17:20 < krytyk> yay, cloudi made it clear. 17:20 < krytyk> something liek that darko 17:20 < Lery> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members, but a cat is fine, too" ? 17:20 < krytyk> can someone make it longer?! 17:20 < Lock> Yes! 17:21 -!- nanodesuyo [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21 <&DarkoNeko> I can ALWAYS make it longer 17:21 < krytyk> thats bragging 17:21 * Lord-Simon blushes 17:21 < Lery> He's French ;) 17:21 < Kira0802> Ehehe 17:21 * Lock groans 17:21 <+Lord-Simon> So 17:21 < Misogi> "In case of inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to statute on a transitory or permanent Project Manager nomination." 17:21 <+Lord-Simon> Vote for: "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or choose a new Project Manager amongst the active project members" 17:21 < cloudii> Yes 17:21 <&DarkoNeko> Misogi, I don't really understand "nomination" 17:21 < krytyk> change to appoint 17:21 <&DarkoNeko> yes 17:21 < krytyk> simple 17:21 < krytyk> done 17:21 < Lock> yeah 17:21 < Kira0802> final form? 17:21 < Cthaeh> yes 17:21 < krytyk> saishu keitai 17:21 < Lery> @DarkoNeko : the same as in FR 17:22 < Kira0802> Yea 17:22 < Lery> yes 17:22 < cloudii> Can we restate the final form? 17:22 <&DarkoNeko> "In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members" 17:22 < Lery> it's just lacking a genitive 17:22 < cloudii> Vote just to clarify 17:22 < cloudii> yes 17:22 < Kira0802> Yea 17:22 < krytyk> yes 17:22 <+Lord-Simon> yes 17:22 < Lery> y 17:22 < Lock> yes... 17:22 < Cthaeh> y 17:22 < Misogi> Yes (you can replace problems with issues) 17:23 < cloudii> resolved? 17:23 <&DarkoNeko> looks like it 17:23 < Kira0802> Next! :D 17:23 < cloudii> I have one for thing 17:23 < cloudii> appointment of project managers 17:23 < cloudii> self nominations or contact supervisor? 17:23 < Lery> sudo apt-get install next_topic 17:23 < cloudii> (assuming position is blank) 17:23 < hayashi> contact 17:23 < Lock> staff appoints the manager. 17:23 <&DarkoNeko> I'm all for having it stay the project creator by defaulty 17:24 < Misogi> Just tell it on the administration contact page. 17:24 < cloudii> Misogi +1 17:24 < hayashi> at least courtesy informing 17:24 < krytyk> project creator is often the person who made the teaser and left it as is 17:24 < krytyk> thus no. 17:24 < KuroiHikari|m> Head TL or someone the head TL agrees with 17:24 < Kira0802> Staff appoints, Supervisor agrees 17:24 < cloudii> agree with krytyk 17:24 <&DarkoNeko> then a new person appoint self, as on the thing we just voted on 17:25 < Lery> @Misogi : actually "problem management" is the real thing :P 17:25 < cloudii> Yes, all notifications about new project managers should be made on the Administration Contact Page 17:25 < krytyk> problems will define themselves 17:25 <&DarkoNeko> along with a notice on the translation project's talk page 17:25 < krytyk> when they come to supervisor to discuss them 17:25 < krytyk> dont overcomplicate 17:25 < krytyk> over trivialities 17:25 < Misogi> Lery: Ah, nevermind my comment then. 17:26 < Lery> Well, it's a well used word in IT support and so on. It's part of the ITIL stuff and all. 17:26 < cloudii> okay, anyways, staff should at least make contact 17:26 < cloudii> can we agree with that 17:26 < cloudii> and be vague about the form of contact? 17:26 < Lery> @cloudii : yeah 17:26 < Misogi> Yeah. 17:26 < cloudii> vote 17:26 <&DarkoNeko> agreed, the less bureaucracy the better 17:26 < Kira0802> Yea 17:26 < Lery> Please rephrase it for vote 17:27 < Misogi> "Any nomination of a Project Manager must be brought to the supervisors." 17:27 < Misogi> The "brought" can be improved. 17:27 < Lery> "by any means necessary" ? >< 17:27 <&DarkoNeko> lol 17:27 < cloudii> unnecessary lery........ 17:27 < Misogi> "Any" means that. 17:27 * Lock giggles 17:28 < Kira0802> teehee 17:28 < Lery> Sartre FTW 17:28 <&DarkoNeko> I think "In case of unannounced inactivity or management issues, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members" already says that 17:28 <&DarkoNeko> they have to contact the supervisor in all cases 17:28 < Misogi> It's one case. 17:28 <&DarkoNeko> we could have a page logging all translation rpoject managemenet change, as an aside 17:28 < Misogi> There's also the first one, which is different. 17:28 < Misogi> first nomination* 17:29 <&DarkoNeko> that's always the project or teaser creator 17:29 < Lery> @Misogi : okay, never mind, I thougt we talked about "problem management" but here, you're meaning "problem with the management", right ? 17:29 < cloudii> …what exactly are we talking about right now? 17:30 < Kira0802> Dunno 17:30 < Misogi> I'm a bit lost. 17:30 < Kira0802> I have no idea 17:30 < Kira0802> OK 17:30 <&DarkoNeko> coffee, brb 17:30 < Misogi> Let's go back to the topic. 17:30 < Kira0802> let's just retrace how it goes 17:30 -!- Slayze [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:30 < Kira0802> 1. Supervisor away 17:30 < Kira0802> 2. Project nominates a new guy 17:31 < Kira0802> 3. New guy approved by the supervisor 17:31 < cloudii> *Manager you mean 17:31 < cloudii> *Manager away 17:31 < Kira0802> Manager away, OK 17:31 < Kira0802> my bad 17:31 < Misogi> "Supervisors must be informed of any Project Manager appointment." 17:31 < Kira0802> well yeah 17:31 < Kira0802> 3 covers that 17:32 < Kira0802> ... 17:32 < Misogi> Anything else to do? 17:32 < krytyk> makes sense, and first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure. 17:32 < Kira0802> Nothing much left 17:33 < cloudii> krytyk +1 17:33 <+Lord-Simon> Well 17:33 <+Lord-Simon> there are the user groups 17:33 <+Lord-Simon> and the removal of people 17:33 < Misogi> Sure. 17:33 <+Lord-Simon> an the creation of new groups 17:33 < krytyk> you mean forums. 17:33 <+Lord-Simon> but for that wee need TLG 17:34 <+Lord-Simon> and he isn't here. 17:34 < Misogi> Let's speak of the Wiki. 17:34 < cloudii> Can we resolve this one point first? 17:34 < cloudii> about the first project manageR? 17:34 < Misogi> ? 17:34 < Kira0802> ? 17:34 < cloudii> how does the first project manager come into being? 17:34 <+Lord-Simon> ? 17:34 < Misogi> Approved along with the ATP. 17:34 < cloudii> do we agree? 17:34 <&DarkoNeko> I say it's the creator 17:34 < cloudii> I disagree with DarkoNeko from practical experience 17:35 <&DarkoNeko> give more details ? 17:35 < Misogi> Well, I do nominate myself as Supervisor and Manager, if the TL is inexperienced. 17:35 < Kira0802> The one who starts 17:35 < krytyk> creator can be the person who made teaser, and only teaser 17:35 < cloudii> ^^ 17:35 < Kira0802> Unless he wishes to give it to someone 17:35 < Misogi> Then, I give the Manager post once enough experience is acquired. 17:35 < Misogi> (I can't manage more than 20 projects at once.) 17:36 < krytyk> manager is the person who takes upon himself to continue project, and by putting ATP tag dedicates himself to continue it as a full project 17:36 <+Lord-Simon> ^sounds good 17:36 <+Lord-Simon> actually 17:36 < cloudii> krytyk +1 17:36 < cloudii> krytyk: "first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure." 17:36 < hayashi> fair enough 17:37 < Kira0802> i agree 17:37 < cloudii> I vote yes 17:37 < Kira0802> Yea 17:37 < Misogi> I'm on it. 17:37 <+Lord-Simon> Ok 17:37 <+Lord-Simon> then 17:37 <+Lord-Simon> VOTE for: "first project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure." 17:37 < hayashi> yes 17:37 < cloudii> yes 17:37 < Misogi> Yes. 17:38 < Lock> yes 17:38 <+Lord-Simon> yes 17:38 -!- Xahn [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:38 <&DarkoNeko> uuh 17:38 < Kira0802> sup xahn 17:38 < Kira0802> yes 17:38 < Kira0802> what? 17:38 <&DarkoNeko> in all pratically, it's whoever want to continue, the supervisor just nod vaguely. you don't mention the choice comes from the person to begin with ,that may turn off peopel 17:38 < Xahn> yo Kira0802 17:39 < cloudii> "first project manager is approved by the supervisor during ATP procedure." 17:40 < Misogi> It's closer to reality. 17:40 < hayashi> tbh 17:40 < krytyk> usually its only one person at that point 17:40 < cloudii> meh, I'm personally fine with Simon's statement 17:40 < krytyk> since the project has hardly any content. 17:40 < hayashi> this is one area where being grey is fine 17:40 < Kira0802> anyone wants to modify its vote because of the change? 17:40 < hayashi> because managers come and go too fast 17:40 < cloudii> no not really xD I like Simon's better 17:41 < hayashi> if we're too bureaucratic over this issue 17:41 < Kira0802> so...next? 17:41 < cloudii> Can we move to forums? 17:41 < hayashi> it will be counter intinuitive 17:41 < hayashi> yes 17:41 < hayashi> forums 17:41 < cloudii> Okay 17:41 < cloudii> I have one thing 17:41 < Misogi> We can't do much, though. 17:41 < cloudii> for discussion 17:41 <&DarkoNeko> I agree with hayashi there, it's kind of trying to put everything written and... fixating it too much 17:41 < cloudii> Can we discuss which usergroup can have ban/unban privileges? 17:41 < hayashi> SB 17:42 < Kira0802> We can discuss that 17:42 < Misogi> GMs. 17:42 < Kira0802> err 17:42 <+Lord-Simon> Doesn'Twork 17:42 <+Lord-Simon> need TLG 17:42 < Misogi> Of course. 17:42 <&DarkoNeko> for starter, what groups have that currently ? 17:42 < cloudii> we don't need to get it done, but we can give him our opinion and recommendation 17:42 < Misogi> ^ 17:42 < Kira0802> It's not like we're modifying it asap, we can just discuss 17:42 < cloudii> no usergroup has ban/unban except Admins 17:42 < Lery> Well Oni should be able to do it too 17:43 < cloudii> and specific named individuals apaprently.... 17:43 < krytyk> for forums you mean 17:43 < cloudii> for forums yes 17:43 < Lock> Head translators maybe? 17:43 < hayashi> no 17:43 < Kira0802> let's clarify 1st 17:43 < hayashi> we don't need that power tbh 17:43 < krytyk> please make sure to state clearly whether you mean forums or wiki whenever mentinoning usergroups and rights, thanks. 17:43 < Kira0802> forums/wiki? 17:43 < cloudii> Forums. 17:43 < hayashi> I'm assuming forums 17:43 <&DarkoNeko> maybe we need a patrol group for countering vandalism 17:43 < Kira0802> ok, forums. 17:43 < hayashi> head tls mod threads and stuff 17:43 < cloudii> We do have a patrol group for vandalism 17:43 < hayashi> ban/unban should be with admin level mods 17:44 < hayashi> the SB 17:44 < Kira0802> Give ban rights to FSB 17:44 < Misogi> Global Moderators, Admins and some nominated people got the ban powers. 17:44 < cloudii> @Misogi, that's the current state? 17:44 < Misogi> The FSB used to have them, but it was removed. 17:44 < Misogi> It seems so. But it's unclear. 17:44 <&DarkoNeko> there's no "global mod"... you're talking about the forums ? 17:44 * DarkoNeko is out 17:44 < Kira0802> yes 17:44 <&DarkoNeko> I'll go bike outside or something 17:45 < Kira0802> no 17:45 < Kira0802> u stay here 17:45 < Kira0802> ;_; 17:45 <&DarkoNeko> but it's warm outside ;è; 17:45 <&DarkoNeko> you just have to add the votes on http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014 17:45 < Kira0802> it's snowing here 17:45 <+Lord-Simon> it should be almost 9 am where TLG is 17:45 < hayashi> maybe he forgot 17:45 <&DarkoNeko> it's sunday, i woke up like at midday 17:45 <+Lord-Simon> I've written a mail 17:45 < Kira0802> prob overslept 17:46 < cloudii> Probably sleeping in.... 17:46 <+Lord-Simon> to him 17:46 < cloudii> are we continuing with the ban/unban issue? 17:46 < Kira0802> maybe wrong server lol 17:46 -!- wet [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46 <+Lord-Simon> nah 17:46 < cloudii> cool 17:47 < cloudii> I'm going to get going, unless DarkoNeko wants to talk about sidebar 17:47 < cloudii> and main page 17:47 -!- wet [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:47 < Misogi> I'll add the ATP and 1st Manager thing. 17:47 < Kira0802> i'm out fow awhile 17:47 < Kira0802> bbl 17:47 <+Lord-Simon> so, this is it. For now 17:47 < cloudii> DarkoNeko: You might be interested in this main page proposal 17:47 < cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User:Pumkingboyz/Sandbox:Main_page_proposal 17:47 < Misogi> In "Project leading and supervision" 17:47 <&DarkoNeko> cloudii, the only point of choice is wether to use the old method or your discovery, a'd be for the later 17:48 < cloudii> I don't really care xD 17:48 -!- AthenaSoCute [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki 17:48 < krytyk> what 17:48 < krytyk> whos that 17:48 < AthenaSoCute> kira 17:48 < hayashi> botanophile 2 17:49 < cloudii> but, I'm kind of tired of deliberations at this point…. was running interviews for 5 hours yesterday so…. cloud is wiped out xD 17:49 < cloudii> had to pick an E-board for next year at school 17:49 < cloudii> but anyways, cloud is off. see y'all 17:49 < AthenaSoCute> ... 17:49 < AthenaSoCute> if cloud is off 17:49 < AthenaSoCute> should we ebd this for now? 17:49 < AthenaSoCute> rnd* 17:50 <&DarkoNeko> alright, so we're calling the meeting off ? 17:50 < Lery> See you Cloudii, may you have a sunny day ;) 17:50 < AthenaSoCute> end* 17:50 <&DarkoNeko> I'm out biking \o/ 17:50 < AthenaSoCute> we can meet next week or something 17:50 < Lery> yeah I'm tired of this too 17:50 < Lery> Sure 17:50 <&DarkoNeko> thanks, everyone 17:50 < cloudii> thanks 'errybody 17:50 <+Lord-Simon> So, looks like the meeting is off for today

Complete Log of the Evening Session (with TLG)

[...] [15:13] == thelastguardian [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:13] <cloudii> thelastguardian :D [15:14] <thelastguardian> $#@$%@#$#@ [15:14] <thelastguardian> i set my calendar to 1pm PST [15:15] <cloudii> aww it's okay xD [15:15] <thelastguardian> oh my gosh [15:15] <cloudii> it was a god early time for you anyways, so it's alright [15:15] <thelastguardian> *facepalming* [15:15] <Misogi> Hi TLG. [15:16] <cloudii> A full transcript for the entire meeting is on the talk page for tha Wiki page [15:16] <Misogi> But we haven't discussed the important matters. [15:16] == DefaultMelody [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:18] <cloudii> Misogi, I started taking a more detailed/formal minutes off of the full transcript [15:18] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 [15:18] <cloudii> Feel free to edit you think is not representative...... [15:19] <Misogi> Well, I'll trust you on this. [15:20] == Lery [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:20] <Lery> Hello there ^^ [15:20] == Vallor [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:20] <Misogi> Should we start an improvised discussion? [15:21] <cloudii> Uh, do you know if Simon is still recording? [15:21] <Misogi> Or just deal with the most important matters? [15:21] <+Lord-Simon> holy [15:21] <+Lord-Simon> Well [15:21] <+Lord-Simon> hello there [15:21] <+Lord-Simon> 7 hours too late [15:21] <Vallor> It's nothing. lol [15:23] <cloudii> fyi, I started putting together formal minutes from the transcript here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 [15:23] <cloudii> Feel free to edit as you please :D [15:23] <thelastguardian> as a token of my apology, I will immediately set to work on the captcha... [15:23] == onix [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:23] <thelastguardian> (after I finished screaming) [15:23] <+Lord-Simon> :D [15:24] <Misogi> I see. [15:24] <DefaultMelody> Yo. [15:24] == onix has changed nick to Guest49545 [15:24] <Misogi> I'll try to take a bath in less than 5 minutes. [15:24] <Vallor> Good luck [15:24] * Misogi is off. [15:24] <+Lord-Simon> So, are we going through the topics that can only be discussed with TLG ? [15:25] <Guest49545> Hmm... Hello ? (My first time on an IRC) [15:25] <+Lord-Simon> .... [15:25] <Guest49545> Arg... it's Devenk [15:25] <Vallor> He...llo [15:26] <DefaultMelody> ...Devenk, put your real name. [15:26] <Lery> He means : your real nickname :P [15:26] <Guest49545> It's my first time, I don't jnow how to do it... [15:26] <+Lord-Simon> 48 65 6c 6c 6f [15:26] <Vallor> +1 Lery [15:26] == Guest49545 [[email protected]] has quit [] [15:27] == mib_r8b9t5 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:27] <+Lord-Simon> you guys... [15:27] <Lery> 4e 6f 2c 20 70 6c 65 61 73 65 2e 2e 2e [15:27] <+Lord-Simon> 2a 73 69 67 68 2a [15:27] <Vallor> Can you stop with the hexa code please? [15:28] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:28] <DefaultMelody> Shhh, Vallor, I'm trying to understand. [15:28] <+Lord-Simon> I [15:28] <+Lord-Simon> SEE [15:28] <+Lord-Simon> CAPTCHA [15:29] <+Lord-Simon> BUT WHY CATS [15:29] <+Lord-Simon> WHYYYY!? [15:29] <DefaultMelody> CATS RULE INTERNET. [15:29] == mib_r8b9t5 has changed nick to Devenk83 [15:29] <+Lord-Simon> NO [15:29] <+Lord-Simon> SHEEPS DO [15:30] <Vallor> And french people are weird...? *sigh* [15:30] <Lery> Aren't cats fine too ?? [15:30] <Cthaeh> haha [15:30] <+Lord-Simon> because cats are too mainstream: http://labs.minutelabs.io/Sheep-Bounce/ [15:30] <DefaultMelody> Hipster. [15:30] == Lery2 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:30] <+Lord-Simon> lol [15:30] <thelastguardian> according to mediawiki it's currently the most effective form of captcha...it makes the server a lot busier though [15:31] <cloudii> hmm, TLG, what are you using now? [15:31] <Lery> Mhhh, how much is your server currently stressed, by the way ? [15:31] <cloudii> I want to remind everyone of the data I collected last week [15:31] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 [15:31] <thelastguardian> top - 14:33:40 up 80 days, 20:47, 3 users, load average: 7.53, 11.47, 8.86 [15:31] <cloudii> total amount of spam on the Wiki and Forums [15:31] <thelastguardian> used to be about 2.5 [15:32] <cloudii> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AheiUhJFmWFIdHp6RkZTTzNvTFJnbllSeTNHdVZSS0E&usp=sharing#gid=0 [15:32] == DarkoNeko [[email protected]] has left #Baka-Tsuki [Time waits for no one.] [15:33] <thelastguardian> using what? [15:33] * Misogi is back. [15:33] <cloudii> Forum spam is all topics that have been "denied" by a mod [15:33] <Lery> @thelastguardian : how many cores ? [15:34] <thelastguardian> 8 [15:34] <thelastguardian> 16 HT [15:34] <Lery> Hell, that's way too much [15:34] <Lery> Okay [15:34] <+Lord-Simon> php-fpm + nginx [15:34] <+Lord-Simon> right ? [15:34] <thelastguardian> mediawiki is not every efficient (if you don't have static cache infront of it) [15:34] <Lery> Well, it means it's running at about 50% [15:34] <thelastguardian> cloudii: got it [15:35] <thelastguardian> you can't expect HT to bring 200% performance increase [15:35] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has quit [] [15:35] <thelastguardian> so the captcha pushes the sys util to 100% [15:35] <Misogi> The discussion started? [15:35] <Lery> It's true [15:36] <+Lord-Simon> So, what do we start with ? [15:36] <zzhk> apart from spam, I think the most pressing wiki issue requiring TLG's intervention is the disappearance of the supervisor/admin option when supervisors try to change page protection levels [15:36] <cloudii> imo, it's not worth it if it stresses the server that much [15:36] <+Lord-Simon> Global, Wiki or Forums ? [15:36] <Misogi> Wiki. [15:36] <cloudii> I support zzhk [15:36] <Misogi> Not much to discuss about wiki. [15:36] <+Lord-Simon> except the redo of the front page [15:36] <+Lord-Simon> maybe [15:37] <thelastguardian> i didn't touch the wiki/forum's permission settings, so the disapperance is probably cause by version upgrades [15:37] <Vallor> And the links to the copyright page. [15:37] <cloudii> Do you think you could go and change the usergroup privileges? [15:37] <cloudii> to correct it back to what it used to be? [15:38] <Misogi> One thing at once. [15:38] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:38] == Arisu-tan [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:38] == mode/#Baka-Tsuki [+o Arisu-tan] by [^_^] [15:40] <thelastguardian> sure, let me do the captcha first though [15:40] <Nurin> oh [15:40] <Nurin> the man actually came [15:40] <Nurin> (and Rikka was crying his name) [15:40] <Nurin> :p [15:41] == crows [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] [15:41] == DefaultMelody [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [15:42] <stellarroze> :( [15:43] * Lord-Simon hugs stella [15:43] <stellarroze> just got back from church and saw the tweet [15:43] <@Arisu-tan> Hm? [15:43] <stellarroze> i missed tlg... [15:44] <+Lord-Simon> Were your prayers granted ? [15:44] <stellarroze> was anything sorted out? [15:44] <@Arisu-tan> who knows? [15:44] <Misogi> It just started. [15:44] <stellarroze> who knows my lord... [15:44] <stellarroze> eh [15:44] * stellarroze hugs cloudii [15:45] <stellarroze> hi arisu-tan ^^ [15:45] <Nurin> Wat? [15:45] <Nurin> Stellar in the church? [15:45] <@Arisu-tan> So it seems to me that Harvest Moon games give you all the excitement of wooing a girl and then the wedding, only to deny you the honeymoon after [15:45] <stellarroze> nurin [15:45] <Nurin> lol [15:45] <Nurin> true enough [15:45] <@Arisu-tan> I find this disappointing. [15:45] <+Lord-Simon> lol [15:46] <@Arisu-tan> On the other hand, maybe I've just played too many visual novels where all the romance builds up to that eventual sex scene [15:46] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of lolis never to come out again! [15:47] <nanodesuyo> wouldnt nurin be happy about that? [15:47] * Lord-Simon ;_; [15:47] <@Arisu-tan> that sounds unhealthy [15:47] <stellarroze> shaddup nano [15:47] <+Lord-Simon> ~desu [15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Is Fuchi around? [15:47] <stellarroze> lol [15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchi~ [15:47] <+Lord-Simon> Fuchin~ [15:47] <stellarroze> fuchi? [15:47] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchikoma [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> also known as Smidge [15:48] <stellarroze> what do you do on BT arisu-tan? [15:48] <Misogi> Who's Arisu, btw? [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> I sit here and watch [15:48] <~Smidge204> ? [15:48] <stellarroze> i've seen smidge before but i've never talked to him/her [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Hey! [15:48] <~Smidge204> Hoh [15:48] <~Smidge204> let's go! [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Let's go? [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> XD [15:48] == Devenk83 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [15:48] <~Smidge204> hurr [15:48] == Lery [[email protected]] has left #Baka-Tsuki [] [15:48] <stellarroze> let's go happy! [15:48] <+Lord-Simon> Never follow a stranger. [15:48] == mib_xwaouy [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:48] <@Arisu-tan> Actually I was going to ask if you still have the Haruhi light novels sitting around somewhere? [15:49] == mib_xwaouy has changed nick to Devenk83 [15:49] <~Smidge204> I almost certainly do, since I never (intentionally) delete anything [15:49] <@Arisu-tan> I lost the old laptop with them, and considering I now own the physical copies of the books (up to 11), I want to reread [15:49] <@Arisu-tan> also those books are TINY. I can put them in my pockets [15:50] <~Smidge204> That's the idea, yeas [15:50] <Nurin> Stellar [15:50] <Lery2> \nick Lery [15:50] <Nurin> I hope that become true [15:50] == Lery2 has changed nick to Lery [15:50] <~Smidge204> http://www.smidgeindustriesltd.com/haruhi9.jpg [15:50] <~Smidge204> heh [15:50] <stellarroze> nurin [15:50] <@Arisu-tan> well considering the only other light novel I've seen brought to america is Zaregoto, and those are redone as full book forms [15:51] <@Arisu-tan> I didn't expect the authentic Haruhi novels to be the size of a wallet [15:51] <@Arisu-tan> You have them too? [15:52] <~Smidge204> Just that one [15:52] <Nurin> stellar [15:52] <@Arisu-tan> How many are there again? [15:52] <Nurin> you seem to be very slow on typping today [15:52] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of those blow-up dolls from henneko [15:52] <Nurin> or you are slow to think [15:52] <~Smidge204> When it was first released, I bought two copies - one to cut and and scan, one to keep [15:52] <Nurin> fair enough [15:52] <~Smidge204> The books are dirt cheap... shipping from Japan? Not so much [15:52] <Nurin> I hope that you get buried in a moutain with tons of black gay guys [15:53] <Nurin> you will die from disgust [15:53] <@Arisu-tan> yeah I got them from osakan, actually [15:53] <Lery> Why does it turn that way ? [15:53] <+Lord-Simon> Someone said Azusa ? [15:54] <stellarroze> i hope you get buried under a mountain of asian traps! [15:54] <Nurin> Oh simon [15:54] <Nurin> 拍手 [15:54] <@Arisu-tan> he was moving and sending off all his stuff to other people, and sent me 1-11 in a box. I think I owe him like, $37 for it [15:54] <Nurin> ok [15:54] <Nurin> just a question [15:54] <Nurin> Fish allowed here? [15:55] <stellarroze> no [15:55] * Lord-Simon slaps Nurin [15:55] <Nurin> :( [15:55] <Nurin> y did I got slapped? [15:55] <@Arisu-tan> so wait, is Haruhi vol 11 actually the ending? [15:55] <stellarroze> cos you were mean to me [15:55] <Nurin> it wasn't supposed to be in stellar? [15:55] <stellarroze> of course not... [15:55] * Nurin slaps Stellarroze with a wet towel [15:56] <stellarroze> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww [15:56] <stellarroze> why the heck is the towel wet!? [15:56] * Lord-Simon puts glas in a bag [15:56] * Lord-Simon puts the bag on Nurin head [15:56] <Nurin> 'cause I was taking a shower [15:56] * Lord-Simon starts hitting the bag [15:56] == Lery has changed nick to Lery2 [15:56] == Lery [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [15:56] * Nurin dies [15:57] <Nurin> argghh... [15:57] * Lord-Simon chops the body to pieces [15:57] <Misogi> ... Oh well, nevermind. [15:57] <Nurin> that hurts [15:57] * Lord-Simon feeds the dogs [15:57] * Nurin is born again [15:57] <Nurin> :( [15:58] <Nurin> Simon is mean [15:58] <Nurin> even if I don't die no matter what [15:58] <stellarroze> thank you my lord! [15:58] <Nurin> feeding the dogs... [15:58] <Nurin> oh good [15:58] <stellarroze> O_O [15:58] <Nurin> I will try latter [15:58] <+Lord-Simon> Well, actually that's nothing [15:59] <+Lord-Simon> I had an appointment by a doctor [15:59] <Lery> Shouldn't we actually discuss the Wiki matters ??? [15:59] <Nurin> oh Azusa... [15:59] <Nurin> my heart... [15:59] <Misogi> TLG is busy implementing the captcha. [15:59] <Nurin> what? [15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Hit my foot and the nail started going in the wrong direction and stuff [15:59] <Nurin> Wiki? [15:59] <+Lord-Simon> yes [15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Forums [15:59] <stellarroze> @Lery that happened like 6 hours ago [15:59] <+Lord-Simon> Wiki is done [15:59] <Nurin> who the hell is Wiki? [16:00] <Nurin> and why it can solve it's own problems [16:00] <Nurin> ? [16:00] <+Lord-Simon> And the doc says that a part of the nail has to be removed [16:00] <+Lord-Simon> Well... [16:00] <~Smidge204> Uploading... [16:00] <~Smidge204> They're in plaintext but the illustrations are included [16:01] <+Lord-Simon> I've seen the scissors and some disinfectant. [16:01] <+Lord-Simon> nothing else [16:01] <~Smidge204> I think they're just copypaste from the Wiki's edit box, TBH [16:01] <Misogi> So, the Copyrights and Protect issues are done, right? [16:01] <+Lord-Simon> Takes the scissors, shoves it under the nail, cuts [16:01] <+Lord-Simon> *repeat till done* [16:02] <~Smidge204> http://www.smidgeindustriesltd.com/Haruhi_vol_1-9_w_illustrations.rar [16:02] <+Lord-Simon> no [16:02] <stellarroze> hmmm [16:03] <stellarroze> i wonder if i forgot my password for the wiki and forums... [16:03] <+Lord-Simon> ... [16:03] == Devenk83 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [16:03] == Lock [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:03] <+Lord-Simon> I can't forget them [16:03] <+Lord-Simon> I don't even know them. [16:03] <krytyk> whats this wall of text [16:03] <Vallor> lol [16:03] <krytyk> i go afk for 40 mins [16:04] <krytyk> wall of text awaits me when im back :( [16:04] <cloudii> TLG said he wanted to put captcha in first [16:04] <+Lord-Simon> and then he gone missing [16:04] <cloudii> thelastguardian is clearly doing the work concurently xD As in… right now. [16:04] <thelastguardian> yes [16:04] <krytyk> he put in captcha, now he cant solve it and is stuck in infinite captcha prison [16:05] <Nurin> oh well [16:05] <+Lord-Simon> ^^no he's not [16:05] <+Lord-Simon> he's here [16:05] <Lock> woah, the great leader. [16:05] <krytyk> oh~ [16:06] <Lock> how do you save channels, btw? [16:06] <krytyk> eh? [16:06] <krytyk> depends on what are you using [16:06] <Lock> mibbit [16:06] <+Lord-Simon> save [16:06] <+Lord-Simon> as in archive ? [16:06] <@Arisu-tan> Fuchi is awesome~ [16:06] <krytyk> I'm guessing as in auto-connect [16:06] <Nurin> I will drink a coffee now, and then come back to watch people work a bit more... [16:06] <Lock> nope, as to not quit each time I close the thing [16:07] <krytyk> watch people work [16:07] <krytyk> hidoi [16:07] <krytyk> another one [16:07] <krytyk> "I love hard work, I could watch it for hours" [16:07] <Nurin> Krytyk [16:07] <Nurin> I have no feelings [16:07] <@Arisu-tan> this is the busiest I've seen BT in months [16:08] <Nurin> :) [16:08] <krytyk> rowdy people came over~ [16:08] <Lery> What about the forum and the spam on the forum, by the way, thelastguardian ??? [16:08] <@Arisu-tan> oh geez I forgot about the wiki formatting in the HAruhi texts [16:08] <stellarroze> the spam will continue [16:09] <Nurin> yup [16:09] <stellarroze> a neverending invasion [16:09] <Nurin> as long as BN is there [16:09] <krytyk> like a hydra [16:09] <Nurin> :D [16:09] <krytyk> cut off one head [16:09] <krytyk> thirty appears [16:09] <Nurin> not three? [16:09] <Lery> Why not try out something like Akismet ? [16:09] <Nurin> I always thought it was three... [16:09] * Lock tries saving the channel on auto-connect [16:09] <krytyk> its spam hydra [16:09] <krytyk> not just any hydra [16:09] == Lock [[email protected]] has quit [] [16:10] == Rock96 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:11] <thelastguardian> phpbb actually discourages captcha, interesting... [16:11] * Rock96 failed [16:11] <thelastguardian> instead they recommand double account verification [16:11] <stellarroze> what's that? [16:11] <+Lord-Simon> hmmm... [16:12] <cloudii> email verification? [16:12] <stellarroze> that one verification [16:12] <stellarroze> what's the second one? [16:12] <krytyk> phone? [16:12] * stellarroze hugs cloudii [16:12] <thelastguardian> admin verification [16:12] <Misogi> A code to type? [16:12] <Lery> Admin aproval ? [16:12] <Lery> Heck [16:12] * cloudii hugs stella [16:12] <Lery> That's too bothersome for the admin [16:12] <Misogi> It's time-consuming... [16:13] <stellarroze> ^ [16:13] <krytyk> its reliable, but not for a big communities [16:13] <@Arisu-tan> or for the ones with inactive admins [16:13] <Misogi> Perhaps sending a code to the mail address would work. [16:13] <thelastguardian> new account can post up to x number of posts before they need the 2nd verification [16:13] <krytyk> pointless, most of them are blocked after first post [16:13] <Lery> Do you already use "custom profile fields" ? [16:14] <thelastguardian> the problem is, every single phpbb captcha method has been cracked [16:14] <thelastguardian> yeah [16:14] <+Lord-Simon> Misogi, too easy. [16:14] == Valdars [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [16:14] <Misogi> Hmm... [16:14] == Valdars [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:14] <Lery> What about reCAPTCHA ?? [16:14] == Slayze [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [16:14] <thelastguardian> cracked in 2011 [16:14] <thelastguardian> https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/advanced_double_activation_pack/ [16:15] <Lery> The CAPTCHA itself ? Or the extension for phpBB ? [16:15] <thelastguardian> both [16:15] <stellarroze> how many forum admins do we have? [16:15] <Lery> https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/crazy_maths_captcha_plugin/details/ [16:15] <Lery> ^^ [16:15] <Lery> 2 to my knowledge : TLG and Oni [16:15] <Misogi> Lery... [16:15] <stellarroze> okay... [16:16] <+Lord-Simon> Lery... [16:16] <Misogi> Find something that an average human can solve. [16:16] <stellarroze> unless we get more forum admins, double-activation is unfeasible [16:16] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has quit [] [16:16] <Lery> Misogi ? Lord-Simon ? Do you all dislike LaTeX ? ^^ [16:16] <stellarroze> the maths thingy? [16:16] <+Lord-Simon> No [16:16] <+Lord-Simon> why [16:16] <+Lord-Simon> one of the greatest things you can use to write your thesis [16:16] <Lery> Honestly, everybody can solve little equations like that... [16:17] <+Lord-Simon> sorry [16:17] <+Lord-Simon> the thing [16:17] <Lery> Exactly ^^ [16:17] <+Lord-Simon> sure [16:17] <+Lord-Simon> that one is broken too [16:17] <+Lord-Simon> I guess [16:17] <Rock96> That thingy isn't solvable though? [16:18] <Lery> Sure it is : 2 \pi n + \pi - sin^(-1)(84) [16:19] <Rock96> I can't wrap up my head round that syntax [16:20] <Lery> It's Latex ^^' Sorry for that. Well it's x = 2 pi n+pi-sin^(-1)(84) [16:20] <nanodesuyo> thats not well defined unless you know if 84 is in radians or degrees [16:22] <Rock96> ...do you mean arcsin(84) by sin(84) or I'm just reading too deep? Anyway, if I cannot solve it in a minute and I'm a Physics Major... [16:23] <Lery> True ^^ [16:23] <Rock96> Let's not use it. [16:23] <+Lord-Simon> lol [16:23] <Lery> actually, you can simplify by x and multiply by 2 so you have : sin(x) = 84 [16:24] <+Lord-Simon> Shhhh [16:24] <thelastguardian> that's not...solvable [16:24] <+Lord-Simon> it's sunday [16:24] <Lery> So it's sin^(-1)(84) aka arcsin(84) [16:24] <Lery> ^^' [16:24] <+Lord-Simon> I don'T want to read things that make me think [16:24] <Lery> Then that : https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/simplemath_captcha_plugin/details/ [16:24] * stellarroze doesn't wanna see trig functions D: [16:24] <Lery> You won't there [16:25] <Lery> The problem is that everything is outdated anyway [16:25] <stellarroze> what if people can't do simple math... [16:25] <Vallor> Mathematics don't interest me. Have a good day/night guys! [16:25] <Nurin> ya [16:25] <stellarroze> bye bye vallor [16:25] <Nurin> Mathematics... [16:25] <thelastguardian> we already have question captcha [16:25] <Rock96> ...Ah, I see. So that relies on errors rather than math. [16:25] <Nurin> Good Grief [16:26] <thelastguardian> just that the questions are..... [16:26] == Vallor [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [16:26] <Nurin> I have enough of it during the week [16:26] <stellarroze> the questions are...? [16:26] <Nurin> the questions are...? [16:26] <Rock96> C-C-Combo Breaker! [16:26] <Nurin> the questions are...? [16:26] <stellarroze> the questions are...? [16:26] <Nurin> let's spam it stellar :D [16:27] <stellarroze> okay! [16:27] <Lery> Already solved given the fact we have spammers... [16:27] <Nurin> until he answer [16:27] <thelastguardian> eg: In what month is Baka-Tsuki official birthday in? [16:27] <Nurin> until he answer [16:27] * Rock96 hits stella and nurin [16:27] <+Lord-Simon> .... [16:27] <Nurin> :/ [16:27] <thelastguardian> i don't know and i am the founder for gawd's sake [16:27] <stellarroze> i dunno tlg [16:27] <Lery> Or not yet solved but unsolvable for human being as well [16:27] <+Lord-Simon> ...... [16:27] <Nurin> oh well [16:27] <+Lord-Simon> wait [16:27] <Lery> What the hell... [16:27] <stellarroze> i never said hi... [16:27] <Lery> I don't even know that [16:27] <stellarroze> :( [16:28] <+Lord-Simon> 17th of march [16:28] <Lery> Ahahah, you neither ? Well [16:28] <Lery> That's too much, I agree. [16:28] <+Lord-Simon> 2009 [16:28] <Lery> Oni was inspired, I guess ^^' [16:28] <Nurin> I guess TLG doesn't even remember how many years old BT is [16:28] <Nurin> oh well [16:28] <thelastguardian> what are some, generic enough to the public, but specific enough? [16:28] <Nurin> neither me [16:28] <Rock96> ...2006? [16:28] <+Lord-Simon> ah [16:28] <Nurin> how many yers old [16:28] <thelastguardian> from the forum stat: Board started: 28 Nov 2004 07:52 pm [16:28] <+Lord-Simon> damn [16:28] <Nurin> 8? [16:28] <+Lord-Simon> net and org [16:28] <Lery> What is the name of the author of [Input LN name here] [16:28] <Rock96> Damn. [16:28] <Nurin> no [16:29] <stellarroze> what does baka mean? [16:29] <+Lord-Simon> 2005-01-09 [16:29] <Nurin> make the questions [16:29] <+Lord-Simon> 9th of january [16:29] <Lery> 28 nov :P [16:29] <stellarroze> what's the colour of the headband on the baka-tsuki mascot? [16:29] <Nurin> oh [16:29] <Nurin> I have no idea [16:29] <Nurin> D: [16:29] <+Lord-Simon> orange [16:30] <Lery> I can't even distinguish colours there... [16:30] <Nurin> ^ [16:30] <Nurin> that [16:30] == Lucille [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:30] <stellarroze> welcome lucille [16:31] <Rock96> ...How many fingers are shown on that image? [16:31] <stellarroze> we need questions [16:31] * Rock96 grins [16:31] <stellarroze> lol [16:31] <Misogi> So we'll still use questions? [16:32] <+Lord-Simon> fingers.... [16:32] <+Lord-Simon> 10 [16:32] <Lucille> I can count the ppl I know here with just 1 finger... [16:32] <Lucille> and that is myself... [16:32] <Rock96> Actually, I'd say eight or zero. [16:32] <cloudii> Just make common sense questions [16:32] <Nurin> make the questions like [16:32] <thelastguardian> it's disabled for now, until I find a better batch of questions (no offense to the hard working folks who composed the current batch, but really....) [16:32] <cloudii> Human many fingers does a human have? [16:32] <stellarroze> how many vowels are there in "baka-tsuki"? [16:32] <Nurin> 1 + 1 = ? [16:32] <stellarroze> 3! [16:33] <stellarroze> no [16:33] <Lucille> 6? [16:33] <stellarroze> 11! [16:33] <Nurin> 1 + 1 = 11 [16:33] <Lery> What about things like that : https://www.keycaptcha.com/captcha-for-cms/ [16:33] <Nurin> :D [16:33] <Rock96> 3! like 3!= 2*3= 6? [16:33] <Lucille> 39916800 [16:33] <Cthaeh> at one point the idea came around of making the questions based on the forum rules, just one possible source for questions [16:33] <Lery> Yeah that was a good one [16:33] <Rock96> No, please. [16:33] <stellarroze> YES [16:33] <stellarroze> that's a brilliant idea [16:34] <stellarroze> cu-kun :D [16:34] <+Lord-Simon> http://mangapark.com/manga/tokyo-hatsu-isekai-yuki [16:34] <Lery> Like "What's the third word of the third rule ?" [16:34] <Misogi> Why not, but we need to clarify the rules. [16:35] * Rock96 groans [16:36] * Kira0802 slaps thelastguardian around a bit with a large trout [16:36] <Lery> Right, we talked about doing so earlier... :| [16:36] <Kira0802> TLG~~ [16:36] <Nurin> *_* [16:36] <Nurin> Rikka [16:36] <Kira0802> Nurin~~ [16:36] <Nurin> long time no see [16:36] <thelastguardian> i haven't try keycaptcha for a long time (had to use it on smartphones), but i am willing to give it a spin again [16:36] * stellarroze hugs Kira0802 [16:36] * Kira0802 hugs stella [16:37] * Nurin hugs Stellar [16:37] <Kira0802> i'm off for a while, [16:37] * Lord-Simon feels alone [16:37] <stellarroze> :( [16:37] <Kira0802> but TLG, we need more mods [16:37] <Kira0802> ;_; [16:37] <Lery> There is a free version and it's pretty much solvable [16:37] * stellarroze hugs Lord-Simon [16:37] * Nurin hugs Rikka [16:37] * Lord-Simon hugs stella [16:37] <Nurin> free hugs!!!!! [16:37] * Lord-Simon is happeh~ [16:37] <Nurin> Who want free Hugs!!!!?? [16:37] * Rock96 feels lost [16:37] * Lord-Simon puches Nurin [16:37] <thelastguardian> moderators? [16:37] <Rock96> Again? [16:37] * Nurin hugs Rock96 [16:38] <Lucille> do i get hugs too? [16:38] * stellarroze hugs Lucille [16:38] * Lucille hugs stellarroze. [16:38] * Nurin Hugs Lord-Simon [16:38] * Rock96 uses slapstick on Nurin [16:38] <Lucille> yay [16:38] * Nurin hugs lucille [16:38] * Lucille ignores Nurin. [16:38] <Lucille> (lol) [16:38] * Lord-Simon pushes Nurin away [16:38] * Nurin hugs ThelastGuardian [16:38] * Nurin hugs Nurin [16:38] <+Lord-Simon> ... [16:38] <Rock96> ... [16:38] <Lery> Kira0802, could you elaborate... [16:38] <stellarroze> ... [16:38] <Nurin> it's love [16:38] <Lucille> love thy self [16:38] <Nurin> and is free [16:38] <Kira0802> oh yeah [16:38] <Lery> We have a lot of "FSB" mods nowadays, don't we ? [16:39] <Nurin> I love myself [16:39] <stellarroze> what is FSB anyway? [16:39] * Rock96 prepares slapstick for Nurin again [16:39] <+Lord-Simon> ...narcissist [16:39] <Lery> Fringe security bureau [16:39] <stellarroze> sounds really serious [16:39] <Nurin> Simon [16:39] <Kira0802> BT Forums mods are all MIA [16:39] <Lucille> friends with sexual benefits [16:39] <Nurin> If I don't love myself [16:39] <Lery> aka 馬鹿月の衛星保障機構 - Lunatic Fringe Security Bureau [16:39] <stellarroze> what's the point of the group? [16:39] <Misogi> We especially need Global Mods. [16:39] <Kira0802> global mods [16:39] <Kira0802> except oni [16:39] <Nurin> how can I expect other people to do so [16:39] <stellarroze> ping? [16:39] <Kira0802> and oni comes once every two weeks or so [16:39] <Nurin> no [16:39] <Nurin> like once a month [16:39] <Kira0802> ping stopped moderating since a while [16:40] <Nurin> or when people bother him [16:40] <Lery> At first they were thought to moderate the ALF [16:40] <stellarroze> zzhk? [16:40] <Nurin> When I saw people [16:40] <Nurin> I say /me [16:40] <stellarroze> larethian? [16:40] <Nurin> Lare-tan [16:40] <Rock96> Cult Leader? [16:40] <Nurin> it has a long time that I don't see lare-tan [16:40] <Kira0802> I'm OK with having no global mods though, if FSB and others can take care of it [16:40] <stellarroze> fuwafuwa~~~~~~~~~~~ [16:40] <Lery> But they ended up being numerous with mod power and thus are moderating here and there when they see things needing moderation [16:40] * Nurin feels lonely [16:41] <Kira0802> And the TL/editor groups are kinda a mess [16:41] * Rock96 hits Nurin with slapstick. Again [16:41] <Kira0802> C-Z is an editor there lol [16:41] <thelastguardian> sigh [16:41] <Lery> Yeah, but then we come to the matter of "we need an active admin with power to manage groups" [16:41] <stellarroze> thelastguardian...do you want a hug? [16:41] <Nurin> lol [16:41] <Lery> Oni doesn't handle groups so much, only when he has to absolutely. [16:41] <Nurin> stellar [16:42] <Nurin> hug me [16:42] <Nurin> plx [16:42] * Kira0802 hugs thelastguardian [16:42] <Kira0802> Hugs first, ask later [16:42] <Kira0802> <3 [16:42] <+Lord-Simon> Kira is a trap [16:42] <Rock96> Kira steals the march! [16:42] <Lucille> (i will take another hug if they arent wanted) [16:42] * Nurin hugs Kira0802 [16:42] <stellarroze> 'kay~ [16:42] * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian [16:42] <@Arisu-tan> the entire channel now has hug-herpes [16:42] * stellarroze hugs Arisu-tan [16:42] <Rock96> ...I don't? [16:42] * Nurin hugs stellarroze [16:42] <stellarroze> i'm sure we'll figure it out [16:42] <Lucille> you are implying stellar is spreading herpes [16:42] * Nurin hugs Rock96 [16:43] * Nurin hugs Thelastguardian [16:43] <+Lord-Simon> TLG ? [16:43] <stellarroze> not everyone here is a complete baka [16:43] * Rock96 hits Nurin with slapstick [16:43] * Nurin hugs everyone [16:43] <Nurin> oh [16:43] <Rock96> Stuhp [16:43] <Nurin> I completely forgot [16:43] * Nurin hugs Lery [16:43] <Nurin> my my [16:43] <Nurin> lery should be feeling lonely [16:43] <Nurin> give him more attention [16:43] <Lery> T.T Why ? [16:43] <Nurin> cause no one hugs you [16:44] <Nurin> but I do [16:44] <Lery> Heck, I was hoping to get along without those ^^' [16:44] * Nurin hugs lery [16:44] * Rock96 groans [16:44] <Nurin> hugs are important [16:44] <Nurin> well [16:44] <Nurin> we can switch to hand shakes then [16:44] * Lery struggles [16:44] <Nurin> :/ [16:44] <Lucille> i dont need hugs from men [16:44] <Nurin> sigh [16:44] <Nurin> I am not a man [16:44] <cautr`off> your hands are filthy [16:44] <Nurin> neither a trap [16:44] <cautr`off> that ain't better [16:44] <Rock96> lol [16:45] <Nurin> I am a formless entity [16:45] <Nurin> just that [16:45] <Misogi> Well... what are we discussing now? [16:45] <Nurin> hugs? [16:45] <cautr`off> still discussing? [16:45] * Rock96 calls Ghost Busters [16:45] <cautr`off> it's 10.45 [16:45] <Nurin> I think we should implement a hug sistem on BT [16:45] <stellarroze> BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!!!! [16:45] <thelastguardian> okay, i will leave the forum's captcha aside for now [16:45] <Misogi> Okay, the captcha is done. [16:45] <Misogi> Then, regarding the wiki matters. [16:46] <Lery> Alright [16:46] <Nurin> TLG ignored everyone hugs [16:46] <Nurin> how unpolite [16:46] <Nurin> D: [16:46] <Lery> TLG what were you able to do until now ? [16:46] <Nurin> you should hugs them back [16:46] <stellarroze> we're not on the same level as him nurin [16:46] <stellarroze> he's the big boss [16:46] <Misogi> The Copyright and Supervisor Protection things. [16:46] <Lery> Wiki Captcha is okay now ? [16:46] <Nurin> oh well [16:46] * Rock96 breaks slapstick on Nurin's head. [16:46] <Nurin> I think [16:46] <Rock96> Should calm him down? [16:46] <Rock96> Hopefully. [16:46] <Nurin> that people should hug each other [16:46] <Lery> Wiki Supervisor can now manage locked page again ? [16:46] <Rock96> Damn. [16:46] <thelastguardian> you rather me hugging everyone, or fix the sites? :) [16:46] <cautr`off> oh my, the lord and savior himself's present? [16:46] <Nurin> nothing to do with their position [16:47] <Nurin> :( [16:47] <Nurin> k [16:47] <Nurin> go fix that [16:47] <Nurin> and then hug [16:47] <+Lord-Simon> server_tokens off; [16:47] <Nurin> problem solved [16:47] <cautr`off> then why don't u guys stop spamming and get ur message down to one proper line so that things can actually get done? [16:47] <+Lord-Simon> add_header X-Frame-Options SAMEORIGIN; [16:47] <Nurin> k [16:47] <Nurin> gtg [16:47] <+Lord-Simon> add_header X-XSS-Protection "1; mode=block"; [16:47] <Lucille> how sophisticated is the wiki's permission masks? [16:48] <thelastguardian> wait, i am trying to decide which issue to tackle next [16:48] <+Lord-Simon> Up to you [16:48] <Lery> thelastguardian, what about that : http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5578 [16:48] <thelastguardian> 1. Copyright link: where's the broken link? The ones I see are all good.... [16:48] <Misogi> Home page. [16:48] <+Lord-Simon> I won't touch Content-Security-Policy, as it's a pain in the ass. [16:48] <Lery> it's just an old URL... [16:49] <thelastguardian> 2. password complexity- easy fix, doing it now (brb) [16:49] <+Lord-Simon> I'd say [16:49] <stellarroze> password complexity...? [16:49] <+Lord-Simon> you can lower the complexity [16:50] <+Lord-Simon> but increase the minimum length [16:50] <Lery> Lord-Simon, do we really need add_header X-Frame-Options SAMEORIGIN; ??? Can we use iframe on the wiki ??? [16:50] * stellarroze 's memory is gonna be pushed to the limit [16:50] <+Lord-Simon> Lerry : http://nyanit.com/baka-tsuki.org [16:50] == Guest37588 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:50] <stellarroze> hi guest [16:51] <Guest37588> give me a free hug or else [16:51] <Lery> But I agree with the fact that the server_tokens off; option could be a good idea [16:51] * stellarroze hugs Guest 37588 [16:51] <Lery> Ah ! Okay, I got it ^^' [16:51] <+Lord-Simon> it's never a good idea to send any information [16:51] <thelastguardian> sigh [16:51] <Lery> I though you wanted to protect it in the other direction [16:52] <Misogi> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights [16:52] <Misogi> -> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights [16:52] <stellarroze> oh https [16:53] <stellarroze> that's weird... [16:53] <thelastguardian> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Copyrights <-which page does this happen in? [16:53] <stellarroze> so the copyright page only exists on the https versin? [16:53] <Lery> About the add_header X-XSS-Protection "1; mode=block"; is it currently activated by default on any modern browser ? [16:53] == nanodesuyo [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] [16:53] <Misogi> Home, thelastguardian [16:53] <+Lord-Simon> yes [16:53] <+Lord-Simon> since long ago [16:54] <Misogi> The one to the left of the MediaWiki logo. [16:54] <+Lord-Simon> Probably around 7 month or more [16:54] == Guest37588 has changed nick to nanodesuyo [16:54] <Lery> thelastguardian details here : http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5578 [16:54] <+Lord-Simon> If I wanted [16:54] <+Lord-Simon> I could force people to use the newest browsers [16:54] <+Lord-Simon> that access some sites [16:54] <stellarroze> please don't [16:54] <+Lord-Simon> or the newest updates [16:55] <Lery> Okay, I thought it was since IE8 ^^' [16:55] <thelastguardian> interesting, copyright links are fine for me on both http/https [16:55] <stellarroze> http doesn't work for me [16:55] <thelastguardian> i will work on the iframe next, just be patient.... [16:56] <Lery> thelastguardian : it's not the copyright link, but the broken image with a link at the very end of every page on the wiki, in the footer ;) [16:56] * stellarroze hands a plate of cookies to Lord-Simon [16:56] <Lery> It was at first intended to redirect to the copyright though [16:57] * Lord-Simon takes a cookie [16:57] == Wolfpup_ [[email protected]] has quit [] [16:57] * Lord-Simon is now on the dark side [16:57] == Wolfpup [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [16:57] <stellarroze> grrrrrrrrrr [16:58] <Lery> Here is an image of the copyright's problem : http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7233/bakatsukiemptysquarebug.png [16:58] <Lery> Position of the blank rectangle however depend on your wiki theme [17:00] <thelastguardian> okay, fixed. It broke because of a Google Adsense hack [17:00] <+Lord-Simon> lol [17:00] <+Lord-Simon> I remember that [17:00] <+Lord-Simon> one [17:00] <thelastguardian> next up, XSS [17:00] <+Lord-Simon> btw. Lery, Widevine is now a standard of Chrome [17:00] <+Lord-Simon> is always active [17:01] <Lery> Speaking of https... What about : server { listen 80; server_name .baka-tsuki.org; rewrite ^ https://$host$request_uri permanent; } [17:01] <Misogi> Supervisor Protection? [17:01] <thelastguardian> offtopic: for the last week or so, as part of my work i have been looking at hundreds of live drive-by xss sites..... [17:01] <+Lord-Simon> ah that [17:01] <+Lord-Simon> only for the login and registration [17:01] <Lery> Lord-Simon : I hate DRM... [17:02] <+Lord-Simon> :D [17:02] <Misogi> "The "supervisors/administrators only" option disappeared, and it's impossible for supervisors to edit pages with that setting." [17:02] <Lery> Yeah, thelastguardian, this ^ is annoying for the supervisors ! [17:03] <+Lord-Simon> and the supervisors can'T set the protection level higher than the logged in user [17:04] <Nurin> k [17:04] <Nurin> bak [17:04] <stellarroze> wb nurin~ [17:04] <thelastguardian> Lery: which wiki skin are you using? [17:04] <Lery> Offtopic : Speaking of drive-by, there are nice attacks again old Android version which allow to gain root through visiting a page [17:04] <+Lord-Simon> loli skin [17:05] <Lery> Well, the old one... [17:05] <+Lord-Simon> ah [17:05] <Lery> But it happens with the new one as well [17:06] <Misogi> One thing done. Right. [17:07] <Lery> Here is an image : http://wouaib.ch/images/screenoftbt-copyrights.JPG [17:07] <Lery> The grey rectangle shouldn't be empty... [17:07] <Lery> But the link is fine now however [17:08] <+Lord-Simon> Using Vector skin [17:08] <Lery> Nice work [17:08] <Misogi> Well, we should pass on more important subjects... [17:08] <+Lord-Simon> dropped the cache and the link is ok [17:08] <Misogi> The link works at least. [17:08] <Nurin> just a question [17:08] <cloudii> Finally completed the minutes for the morning session.... [17:08] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014#Minutes [17:08] <Lery> Yeah, what about the supervisor inability to manage locked pages ? [17:08] <Nurin> am I the only one that uses BT in Japanese? [17:08] <Kira0802> guys [17:08] <Kira0802> why did you guys put my part with the tree? [17:08] <Lery> Certainly... I didn't even know it was ported to JP [17:09] <Nurin> ya [17:09] <Lery> Kira0802 : because it's awesome ? =$ [17:09] <+Lord-Simon> TLG, for your info: Failed to load resource: net::ERR_BLOCKED_BY_CLIENT https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js [17:09] <+Lord-Simon> oh [17:09] <+Lord-Simon> wait [17:09] <+Lord-Simon> that's me [17:09] <+Lord-Simon> damn [17:10] <Lery> Lol, I just discovered that BT had a "google adsense" place on the left ^^''' [17:10] <Nurin> oh [17:10] <+Lord-Simon> Well [17:10] <Nurin> you didn't know that? [17:10] <Lery> Guys, let's all go and click it [17:10] <Nurin> TLG made a good job hiding that [17:11] <Nurin> :D [17:11] <Lery> It's for the sake of BT ^^' [17:11] <Nurin> oh well [17:11] <+Lord-Simon> Well, there was also the fun with B-T [17:11] <+Lord-Simon> and AdSense [17:11] <Lery> Which fun ? [17:11] <Lery> I missed it ? [17:12] <Nurin> oh [17:12] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=High_School_DxD:Volume_4_Life_1 [17:12] <Nurin> the one with DxD? [17:12] <Nurin> oh well [17:12] <Nurin> TLG had to remove the AD from the page [17:13] <Nurin> 'cause the content was too ecchi [17:13] <Nurin> lol [17:13] <Lery> ??? Ahahahhaha [17:13] <+Lord-Simon> :D [17:13] <Lery> Exceptional [17:13] <Nurin> I wonder [17:13] <Kira0802> lol [17:13] <Nurin> Why do I keep getting emails from porn sites offering me to drop their prices, even though I never registered in one... [17:14] <Kira0802> liar [17:14] <Lery> Does the ad cover even 10% of the server fee, thelastguardian ??? [17:14] <Kira0802> i never got one [17:14] <Kira0802> Nurin def registered [17:14] <Nurin> Kira [17:14] <Nurin> you is related with traffic of sexual slaves [17:14] <Kira0802> me it's FB [17:14] <Nurin> you have nothing to base yourself [17:14] <Kira0802> doesn't count [17:14] <Kira0802> :DD [17:14] <Nurin> yeah [17:14] <Nurin> it counts [17:14] <Kira0802> no [17:14] <Kira0802> :< [17:15] <Kira0802> I blame AL [17:15] <Nurin> it does [17:15] <Nurin> You should blame yourselfe [17:15] <Misogi> ... Almost midnight, huh... [17:15] <Nurin> hahahaha [17:15] <thelastguardian> i don't have the copyright icon (my old wiki installation doesn't have that) [17:15] <Nurin> you should go sleep [17:15] <thelastguardian> so that's that [17:15] <+Lord-Simon> ok [17:15] <thelastguardian> as for the XSS, I put in the SAMEORIGIN header option into nginx config file [17:15] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User:Pumkingboyz/Sandbox:Main_page_proposal [17:16] <Misogi> Let's move on, then. [17:16] <+Lord-Simon> now fire configtest and reload [17:16] <thelastguardian> impressive [17:16] <+Lord-Simon> so... [17:16] <+Lord-Simon> that's a yes for the change ? [17:16] <Nurin> reload the cannons [17:16] <Nurin> 30 seconds to do that bastards [17:16] <thelastguardian> if no one has any objection [17:16] <Lery> Alright ^^ [17:16] <thelastguardian> then yes, you have green light [17:17] <Lery> What about the supervisor rights ? Did you do that already ? [17:17] <thelastguardian> but, hmm, i guess no one here except for me has the edit right? [17:17] <Misogi> Hence Lery's remark. [17:17] <+Lord-Simon> Ok, I'm gonna change the page [17:17] <Misogi> We'd do it if we could. [17:17] <+Lord-Simon> front page [17:18] <Lery> Actually Supervisors used to have them, but with the update the rights disappeared, as we already discussed. [17:18] <thelastguardian> okay, let me make sure the XSS stuff is fixed first [17:18] <+Lord-Simon> ah [17:18] <+Lord-Simon> yeah [17:18] <+Lord-Simon> forgot [17:19] <thelastguardian> that iframe nyancat hijack only works on the front page [17:19] <thelastguardian> now [17:19] <+Lord-Simon> ah [17:19] <+Lord-Simon> tlg [17:19] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:About#Baka-Tsuki_Media_Platforms [17:19] <Lery> @thelastguardian seems good to me [17:20] <+Lord-Simon> I can't edit the front page [17:20] <+Lord-Simon> forgot that the rights changed [17:21] <Kira0802> lol [17:21] <Kira0802> I can delete the page but not edit it [17:21] <thelastguardian> lol [17:22] <thelastguardian> the mediawiki permission config section is a mess (since the wiki is 10 years old already, it has many left over junk) [17:22] <Nurin> oh well [17:22] <Nurin> good luck on that [17:22] <Nurin> (The only thing I can say) [17:23] <thelastguardian> plus mediawiki version updates doesn't add variables automatically into the config file... <-probably what causes the breakage [17:23] <stellarroze> ganbatte! [17:23] <+Lord-Simon> ... [17:23] <stellarroze> ? [17:23] <Misogi> Two things done (Copyright and Main Page). [17:23] <+Lord-Simon> doesn't it let you generate it anew ? [17:23] <Misogi> The topics' page was edited. [17:26] <thelastguardian> there are way too many modifications [17:26] <thelastguardian> due to the way we we mediawiki (mostly has to do with the 100kb+ pages) [17:26] <Misogi> So it must be done from scratch. [17:26] <thelastguardian> we use* [17:27] <Lery> Hell [17:27] <Misogi> Well, some powers we were supposed to have aren't available, so that explains why. [17:27] <Lery> Well, wouldn't redoing every groups be faster than cleaning up the old config file ? [17:28] <thelastguardian> i don't want to get 10+ regression reports :) [17:28] <+Lord-Simon> ^ [17:28] <Lery> ^^' [17:28] <thelastguardian> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Special:ListGroupRights [17:28] <+Lord-Simon> We also have a defined list of [17:28] <Kira0802> Lery, what are regression reports? [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> Edit pages protected as "Administrators/supervisors only" (editprotected) [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> Edit pages protected as "Allow only autoconfirmed users" (editsemiprotected) [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> That what is missing in the supervisor right [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> s [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> like the last time [17:29] <+Lord-Simon> adn Change protection levels and edit cascade-protected pages (protect) [17:30] <Lery> @Kira0802, well, it's a report you get when there are new regression/failures [17:30] <Kira0802> kk [17:32] <Lery> @Kira0802 : whenever you make change to the wiki it may break something, so the wiki has some self tests to control whether it's the case or not. And such a change is a major change and would shake up the wiki regression routine... [17:33] <Lery> There are a lot of people in those groups... [17:37] <Kira0802> so [17:37] <Kira0802> what's going on now? [17:38] <thelastguardian> okay, i've added the permissions [17:38] <cloudii> yay :3 [17:38] <+Lord-Simon> I SEE EDIT BUTTON [17:38] <+Lord-Simon> hurray [17:38] <+Lord-Simon> gonna edit the main page [17:39] <Lery> Good [17:40] <Lery> Well, I can't check it, but Misogi sure will ;) (You have to change the link on the SAO page, as a remainder ^^) [17:40] <Misogi> It works. [17:42] == gaosaur [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: -=SysReset 2.55=-] [17:42] <Lery> Ah and the link on the Hidan_no_Aria page too [17:42] <Lery> to Hidan_no_Aria_-_Français [17:42] <Misogi> I'll do it. [17:42] <Kira0802> speaking of which [17:42] <Kira0802> SAO/AW sub-forum should be moved to abandonned [17:43] <Lery> Yeah T.T [17:43] <Misogi> We'll speak of forum issues now. [17:43] <Misogi> There are simpler things before that. [17:44] <thelastguardian> okay, so the wiki permission is considered fixed? [17:44] <stellarroze> why isn't sword art online in the abandoned tab on wthe wiki already? [17:44] <krytyk> there was something more... [17:44] <stellarroze> volume 1 is coming out next month [17:44] <krytyk> the protect/unprotect thing someone had problem with [17:44] <krytyk> zzhk was it [17:44] <thelastguardian> hmmmm, that's a good question [17:44] <Misogi> Yes, although it'd be better to redo the permission config section. [17:44] <Misogi> But later. [17:45] <Lery> About the forum, why don't you quickly click the "prune users" button, thelastguardian ? ;) [17:45] <thelastguardian> anyone wants to response to that SAO issue? [17:45] <Lery> I guess we could move it... [17:45] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [17:45] <thelastguardian> because i get enough 'Why is my account banned/deactivated/missing' emails as it is [17:45] <Lery> But any way, there were lot of discussion about changing the sidebar [17:46] <stellarroze> we should delete the SAO project... [17:46] <stellarroze> it's long overdue [17:46] <Kira0802> delete the chapters* [17:46] <Lery> No deletion stella ! [17:46] <stellarroze> yes [17:46] <stellarroze> volume 1 is coming out next month [17:46] <Lery> Just move it to the abandoned projects [17:46] <Kira0802> leave empty page for archives [17:46] <thelastguardian> Well, let's not make SAO publisher work any easier [17:46] <stellarroze> and neko said that SAO has also be licensed in france [17:46] <thelastguardian> we will give the translators a 1 week advance warning [17:47] <thelastguardian> (and the readers) [17:47] <Misogi> I'll handle that matter. [17:47] <Lery> Yeah looks like it was, and not only in France [17:47] <stellarroze> but it's coming out in november so i guess we don't have to delete it now [17:47] <stellarroze> ah [17:47] <stellarroze> okay miso [17:47] <Kira0802> They've been warned and crying since a few months ago [17:47] <Kira0802> lol [17:47] <Lery> Actually the 6 first volume were already removed [17:47] <thelastguardian> but we've been silent on that front, so I think they can get the extra week freebie :) [17:47] <stellarroze> SAO and Accel World should have been deleted as soon as we heard that they were licensed... [17:47] <thelastguardian> lol [17:47] == fiendmaw [~Marius@71E6C888:D019A1A0:1DA501B7:IP] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [17:48] <thelastguardian> huh [17:48] <Lery> The SAO Yen Press' licence is only covering the volume 1 to 4 as of now [17:48] <stellarroze> how do you know? [17:48] <Kira0802> ^ [17:48] == coldacid [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [17:48] <Kira0802> I'm curious too [17:48] <Kira0802> That was a question we were asking at the time of Shana [17:48] <stellarroze> and if that's the case why isn't zero no tsukaima placed in abandoned since seven seas still has the license for it? [17:49] <Kira0802> lol seven seas [17:49] <Lery> Well if I remember well the reason why we didn't deleted the other volume, it's that... [17:49] <stellarroze> no seriously [17:49] <stellarroze> they're making a comeback with light novels [17:49] <Misogi> May we move on to the other topics? [17:49] <stellarroze> hai... [17:50] <thelastguardian> let me look at the SAO page first [17:50] * stellarroze gives Misogi a double-chocolate cookie [17:51] <Kira0802> Speaking of which, can we revert the deletion of HnA's registration page? [17:51] <thelastguardian> iirc we didn't delete Shana because by all intends and purposes, the publisher has abandoned the series [17:51] <thelastguardian> is it still true? [17:51] <Kira0802> still true [17:51] <stellarroze> yep [17:52] <thelastguardian> since everyone loves SAO, I am guessing the publisher will not abandon it in this case [17:52] <Kira0802> it's Yen Press [17:52] <Kira0802> Yen Press doesn't drop a novel [17:53] <stellarroze> ^ [17:53] <Lery> Yeah, Yen Press does good work ^^ [17:53] <Kira0802> at least, i don't remember them doing so [17:53] == coldacid [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [17:53] <stellarroze> Accel World too [17:53] <thelastguardian> well, then the solution is clear then [17:53] <stellarroze> they haven't [17:53] <+Lord-Simon> HEY [17:53] <+Lord-Simon> GUYS [17:53] <+Lord-Simon> one thing [17:53] <Lery> They go up to the end [17:53] <+Lord-Simon> I have to confirm [17:53] <Lery> Was ist denn los ? [17:53] <Kira0802> ? [17:53] <Lery> You shrieking Itsuki [17:54] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Help:Getting_Started [17:54] <+Lord-Simon> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Baka-Tsuki:Rules [17:54] <+Lord-Simon> Will be completed and used [17:54] <+Lord-Simon> right ? [17:54] <Kira0802> yes [17:54] <Lery> For the help page, it doesn't need the draft anymore [17:54] <Lery> Yeah [17:54] <Misogi> Yes. [17:54] <Lery> Cloud is in charge [17:54] <Kira0802> Rules will be edited iirc [17:54] <Lery> And is fired up. [17:54] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has quit [] [17:55] <+Lord-Simon> good [17:55] <Lery> However it will need some TLC... Or maybe just C ^^' [17:56] <Kira0802> So yeah, TLG, I was asking if it was possible to revert HnA's registration page so we can pay tribute to their contributors [17:56] <thelastguardian> anyway, so all SAO volumes will be gone in 1 week. Anyway comment? [17:56] <Kira0802> (And leave Nera's name ;_;) [17:56] <thelastguardian> eh, I thought we keep them already? [17:56] <Misogi> No problems. [17:57] <Misogi> One week then. [17:57] <Kira0802> @TLG Got deleted [17:57] <thelastguardian> huh [17:57] <thelastguardian> well, don't delete them next time [17:57] <thelastguardian> i can undelete it [17:57] <Nurin> oh well [17:57] <Misogi> No need to. [17:57] <Nurin> TLG [17:57] <Lery> Actually TehPing was handling SAO I think, but... [17:57] <Nurin> you don't know the pain it was [17:57] <Nurin> :/ [17:58] <Nurin> BT divided in three factions: [17:58] <Misogi> Undoing that will cause more problems. [17:58] <thelastguardian> Kira0802: send me the link of the deleted page [17:58] <+Lord-Simon> And we moved to the new main page. [17:58] <Nurin> The "let's delete it" The "Let's wait" and the "I don't care either way" [17:58] <thelastguardian> Was TehPing here this morning? [17:59] <Misogi> Nope. [17:59] <Nurin> nope [17:59] <Lery> nope [17:59] <thelastguardian> or noon in Europe [17:59] <Nurin> Ping is never here [17:59] <Nurin> no [17:59] <Nurin> the only way to get ping [17:59] <Nurin> is in FB [17:59] <Nurin> he spwn there at random times [17:59] <+Lord-Simon> wait [17:59] <Nurin> pawn* [17:59] <Nurin> spawn* [17:59] <+Lord-Simon> 204 projects... [17:59] <thelastguardian> I recall that he handles SAO for the entire time [17:59] <Lery> not only, you may try to translate some BL or GL or worse and he would show up... [17:59] <Kira0802> @TLG I can't find the old project page [17:59] <Kira0802> or the registration page [17:59] == Warlock_Gaignun [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [17:59] <thelastguardian> it will be respectful to alert him of our intention [18:00] <Lery> Yes we should [18:00] <Misogi> We shouldn't repost the volumes. [18:00] <Lery> Yes, we shouldn't [18:00] <Nurin> TLG [18:00] <thelastguardian> I don't use facebook, so someone tell him of our intention [18:00] <Nurin> if you want to drop a message [18:00] <Nurin> I or Simon can drop at his box [18:01] <Lery> Nurin, you're in charge then :P [18:01] <Kira0802> it should be this like though: https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hidan_No_Aria:Registration_Page [18:01] <Misogi> It'll cause problems, not to mention the backlash on BT's reputation. [18:01] <Nurin> just leave here and I CRTL C and CTRL V [18:01] <+Lord-Simon> "it will be respectful to alert him of our intention" [18:01] <+Lord-Simon> him ? [18:02] <Rock96> Ping [18:02] <Nurin> oh well [18:02] <Nurin> anyways [18:02] <Nurin> you do that Simon? [18:03] <thelastguardian> anyway, let's not announce the deletion until we infrom TehPing [18:03] <stellarroze> when will Accel World be deleted? a month before it's released? [18:03] <thelastguardian> inform* [18:03] <stellarroze> hai! [18:03] <thelastguardian> is there a person in charge of Accel World? [18:03] <Lery> Here is the real one, Kira0802 [18:03] <Lery> https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hidan_no_Aria:Registration_Page&action=edit&redlink=1 [18:04] <Lery> it had a "no" instead of a "No" [18:04] <Rock96> Um, no one handled AW, I think [18:05] <thelastguardian> well, i've undeleted it [18:05] <stellarroze> thelastguardian - there's no project supervisor [18:05] <thelastguardian> it = AnH registration page [18:05] <thelastguardian> HnA* [18:05] <Nurin> AnH? [18:05] <Nurin> D: [18:05] <thelastguardian> Japanese is hard [18:05] <Nurin> anyways [18:05] <Nurin> TLG [18:05] <Nurin> what you want to be said to Ping? [18:05] <+Lord-Simon> wait [18:05] <+Lord-Simon> let me add [18:06] <+Lord-Simon> Twin Black Swords, Twin Silver Wings [18:06] <+Lord-Simon> download it [18:06] <+Lord-Simon> and hten you candelete it [18:07] <thelastguardian> brb in 5 min [18:08] <Lery> Well I gotta sleep... [18:09] <Lery> I'm waking up early tomorrow, well today already T.T [18:09] <Kira0802> thanks lery [18:09] * Kira0802 hugs Lery [18:09] * Misogi sees that there are many topics still waiting... but not enough time... [18:09] <cloudii> thanks lery <3 [18:09] <thelastguardian> ok, thanks Lery [18:09] <Misogi> Thanks Lery [18:09] <stellarroze> sweet dreams Lery~ [18:09] <Nurin> TLG [18:09] <Nurin> I have a aquestion [18:09] <Lery> By the way, thelastguardian : plz, press the "prune users" button on the forum [18:10] <Nurin> did you talk to Oni lately? [18:10] <Misogi> ^ Clean up of users created before 2014 [18:10] <Lery> We have tons of spam account [18:10] <Lery> Oni is on Twitter nowadays, no ? [18:10] <Nurin> ya [18:10] <Nurin> but well [18:10] <Nurin> there's a problem [18:10] <Nurin> that he wanted me to solve [18:11] <Nurin> he went to the point [18:11] <thelastguardian> Lery: that phpbb double verification mod will take care of that [18:11] <Nurin> to tell me that I should take my cike [18:11] <Nurin> and go search for TLG [18:11] <Nurin> 'cause he didn't anwswer oni's mails [18:11] <Kira0802> lol [18:11] <thelastguardian> ? [18:11] <Misogi> Actually, thelastguardian, we need a clean-up of all users created before 2014, and without a single message. [18:11] <thelastguardian> who? [18:12] <Kira0802> bbl, dinner [18:12] <Misogi> On the forum* [18:12] <Lery> Epic oni ^^ [18:12] <Nurin> Anyways [18:12] <Nurin> TLG [18:12] <Nurin> oni wants rights to use BT's blog [18:12] <+Lord-Simon> "all users created before 2014, and without a single message." [18:12] <Nurin> and he said can't do that [18:12] <Nurin> :( [18:13] <+Lord-Simon> taht [18:13] <+Lord-Simon> *that [18:13] <thelastguardian> misogi: the mod will clean them in 6 weeks time [18:13] <+Lord-Simon> give the rights to someone who is most of the time online [18:14] <+Lord-Simon> I mean about the blog [18:14] <Misogi> I see. [18:14] <Nurin> oh well [18:14] <cloudii> Did we get a chance to assign more users who can unban? [18:14] <cloudii> because there's still a few members still sitting banned in that thread...... [18:14] <+Lord-Simon> We'll find people who want to write an article [18:14] <Misogi> It hasn't been mentionned, cloudii. [18:15] <thelastguardian> as for the blog [18:15] <thelastguardian> i am thinking of making someone the administrator for that [18:15] <+Lord-Simon> ? [18:15] <Nurin> oh [18:15] <Nurin> good one [18:15] <+Lord-Simon> Ah [18:15] <Lery> Yeah, right, the ban/unban powers were removed from the FSB, which is right, but from the FSB team leaders as well, which is less good imo... [18:15] <+Lord-Simon> yes [18:15] <thelastguardian> that person will have FULL CONTROL [18:15] <Lery> Hell I really gotta go [18:15] <+Lord-Simon> I volunteer [18:15] <Nurin> me not [18:15] <Nurin> lol [18:15] <Lery> Isn't kira already admin of the blog ? [18:16] <thelastguardian> Not entirely [18:16] <Lery> Okay. [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> Normal writer [18:16] <Nurin> then give him [18:16] <thelastguardian> i don't like how the current wordpress is setup [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> or wait [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> how is it called [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> btw [18:16] <thelastguardian> the new person can decide which software to use [18:16] <thelastguardian> CMS* [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> when was the last time you updated [18:16] <Nurin> Kira is the one that have nothing to do anyways [18:16] <Nurin> :D [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> the blogging software [18:16] <Lery> long ago I guess [18:16] <thelastguardian> last month, i think [18:16] <+Lord-Simon> Well tlg, there are only a few options [18:16] <Lery> really ? [18:17] <Lery> But the blog is dead, isn't he ? [18:17] <thelastguardian> i see a lot of wordpress exploits [18:17] <+Lord-Simon> WP is one of them [18:17] <Nurin> we are reviving [18:17] <Nurin> it [18:17] <thelastguardian> yeah, that's why i want to change it [18:17] <cloudii> I have plenty of ideas for the blog [18:17] <Nurin> Yup [18:17] <cloudii> and I wouldn't mind writing, but I don't want Admin privileges....... [18:17] <+Lord-Simon> there is also Ghost [18:17] <Nurin> cloud is a good one [18:17] <+Lord-Simon> no one will use Typo3 [18:17] <Nurin> he can watch us from the sky [18:17] == coldacid [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: dammit windows making me reboot again] [18:17] <Nurin> this is needed [18:17] <+Lord-Simon> Even I don't want to touch that [18:18] <Nurin> TLG [18:18] <Nurin> Push the Admin on cloudii [18:18] <Nurin> :D [18:18] <cloudii> noooooooooo [18:18] <+Lord-Simon> I can take over the admin privileges [18:18] <Nurin> :( [18:18] <Nurin> not fun [18:18] * Lord-Simon punches Nurin [18:18] <Nurin> we need someone that is tsudere [18:18] <cloudii> It takes enough of my time to sit there are post recent updates [18:18] <cloudii> @____@ [18:18] <+Lord-Simon> ^he does [18:19] <Kira0802> back [18:19] == ProBlackbird [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] [18:19] <Nurin> Rikka [18:19] <Nurin> we are talking bad things about you [18:19] <Nurin> were* [18:19] * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian [18:19] * stellarroze hugs misogi [18:19] * stellarroze hugs cloudii [18:20] <Kira0802> what do you guys want of me? [18:20] <stellarroze> you guys are awesome! [18:20] <thelastguardian> Lord-Simon, do you have any particular idea in mind on how to run the blog? [18:20] <Nurin> everything [18:20] <cloudii> actually Simon, do you mind if we locate a second recent-update watcher? [18:20] <Nurin> Rikka [18:20] <cloudii> Because I think I know a reader who might be willing to do it [18:20] <+Lord-Simon> From administrative rights or as a blogger ? [18:20] <Nurin> damnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [18:20] <cloudii> just blogger [18:20] <cloudii> on the other facebook page [18:20] <cloudii> we can test him [18:20] <Nurin> anananabnabajiasbkjfasojgvbwffsavbdsghpspzgh [18:21] <Nurin> rikka [18:21] <cloudii> I know that Mehedi Hasan Himel watches that Recent Updates page a lot…. [18:21] <Nurin> 貴方の全てが欲しいもの [18:21] <Nurin> :D [18:21] <cloudii> posts updates in mchan before I even see them [18:21] <Nurin> that should be enough for today [18:21] <thelastguardian> when i say 'full control', i meant 1. layout of the site 2. format of the site 3. contents of the site 4. coordinating between different post contributors [18:21] <+Lord-Simon> "second recent-update watcher" [18:21] <Misogi> Lord-Simon, what was done on the "Security" topic? [18:22] <thelastguardian> starting from the CMS :) [18:22] <cloudii> I recommend Simon [18:22] <Nurin> I recommend Cloudii [18:22] <Nurin> :D [18:22] <cloudii> D: [18:22] <+Lord-Simon> CMS [18:22] <nanodesuyo> i recommend cloudii [18:22] <cloudii> DDDDD: [18:22] <Nurin> we need someone who watch us from the sky [18:22] <+Lord-Simon> You probably want something running on php [18:22] <nanodesuyo> cloudii is omniscient [18:22] <Nurin> a wild nano appears [18:22] <Misogi> Simon get my support. [18:22] <+Lord-Simon> as to not change a software [18:23] <Nurin> what do you do? [18:23] <+Lord-Simon> or add anything else to the server [18:23] == coldacid [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [18:23] <+Lord-Simon> brb 5 min [18:23] <Nurin> >Fight >Flee >Offer Bananas >Do nothing [18:23] <cloudii> I would recommend Simon or Kira for full admin rights for the blog [18:23] <cloudii> I don't know how busy Kira is lately though [18:23] <Nurin> noooooo [18:23] <Nurin> Rikka [18:23] <Nurin> is [18:23] * thelastguardian will be afk for 10 minutes [18:23] <Nurin> a [18:23] <Nurin> lazy [18:23] <Nurin> ass [18:23] == wet [[email protected]] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [18:24] <Nurin> but [18:24] <stellarroze> cloudii and simon!!! [18:24] <Nurin> I [18:24] <Nurin> still [18:24] <Nurin> like [18:24] <Lery> Ghost is a nice one if you dislike WP [18:24] <stellarroze> cloudii is kawaii [18:24] <Nurin> him/her [18:24] <stellarroze> simon is my lord! [18:24] == wet [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [18:24] <Nurin> Even though I know Rikka for a good time already [18:24] <nanodesuyo> i recommend cloudii for Potus. [18:24] <Nurin> I still can't define his/her gender [18:24] <Kira0802> I'm busy [18:24] <Nurin> like Hideyoshi [18:25] <Nurin> don't lie [18:25] <Nurin> I am busy [18:25] <+Lord-Simon> "00:17:35 Lord-Simon there is also Ghost" [18:25] <Nurin> we can't have two people busy [18:25] <Lery> Well, I'm really going now. Have a nice night/day according to your time-zone. [18:25] <Lery> Bye [18:25] <+Lord-Simon> But Ghost is not really load friendly [18:25] <Nurin> it's agains the Neet/Hikikomori's rules [18:25] <Kira0802> gnight [18:25] <Nurin> Lery... [18:25] <Lery> Thanks thelastguardian for coming ^^ [18:25] <Nurin> you still didn;t go... [18:25] <Nurin> oh well [18:26] <Nurin> g'night [18:26] <Nurin> :D [18:26] <cloudii> bye Lery~ [18:26] <Kira0802> I have to edit shikkin [18:26] <Kira0802> and magdala [18:26] <Nurin> k [18:26] <Lery> @Nurin yeah, I'm awful ^^' Always too late on BT [18:26] <Nurin> brb 2 min [18:26] <cloudii> I have to edit Biblia and Clockwork D:< xD [18:26] <Rock96> g'night, Lery [18:26] <Kira0802> hi rock [18:26] <Kira0802> are you still rock hard? :DDDD [18:26] <Misogi> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Meeting:March302014 [18:26] <Rock96> And I needed to go to sleep... five hours ago -.- [18:26] <stellarroze> who wants a hug!? [18:27] <stellarroze> :D [18:27] <Kira0802> rock [18:27] <Lery> Lord-Simon, you're logging the IRC, right ? [18:27] <nanodesuyo> can i have two hugs? [18:27] <Misogi> Please tell if anything else was corrected (especially the Security part). [18:27] <Rock96> Hug me. I'm sleep deprived [18:27] <+Lord-Simon> yes [18:27] <Lery> I'll read it tomorrow then ^^ [18:27] <+Lord-Simon> day and night [18:27] <Lery> Bye [18:27] <Rock96> And will be till three hours later [18:27] * Misogi is tired. [18:27] <+Lord-Simon> k [18:27] * Lery too and is going to go and sleep [18:28] <+Lord-Simon> Where do I post the raw log ? [18:28] * Lery is leaving [18:28] * Rock96 still reads history assignment [18:28] <Misogi> Talk section. [18:28] <cloudii> After the raw log that was posted this morning [18:28] == Lery [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [18:28] == Lery2 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] [18:28] <nanodesuyo> STELLA YOU PROMISED ME HUGS AND PROMISES WERE NOT KEPT. Now I am D: [18:28] <cloudii> http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Talk:Meeting:March302014#Complete_Log_of_the_Meeting [18:29] * stellarroze hugs nanodesuyo [18:29] <nanodesuyo> two please :( [18:29] * stellarroze hugs Rock96 [18:29] * stellarroze hugs nanodesuyo [18:29] * Misogi is waiting for clarifications over the Security matters. [18:29] <nanodesuyo> thank you :) [18:29] * Kira0802 hugs stella [18:29] <Rock96> Yeah, thanks [18:30] <cloudii> tbh, I wasn't watching this conversation xD technical details are beyond me [18:30] * Kira0802 hugs rock [18:30] * Rock96 wonders if Kira is a trap [18:30] <stellarroze> NO. [18:30] <Misogi> @cloudii: Same here, hence that's why I'd like the exact changes. [18:31] <Nurin> k [18:31] <Nurin> bak [18:31] * stellarroze hugs Nurin [18:31] <+Lord-Simon> thelastguardian, even if it sounds lazy. WordPress is still the best option here [18:31] * Nurin hugs stellar back [18:32] <Nurin> i forgot it [18:32] <cloudii> Can you do something like blogger or the not-self-hosted wp and use our domain name? [18:32] * Nurin hugs cloudii [18:32] * Kira0802 cuddles Simon [18:32] <cloudii> That's even easier xD but less control [18:32] <+Lord-Simon> it runs on PHP and is easiest to use [18:32] * Nurin hugs nanodesuyo [18:32] <Lucille> i want a hug too [18:32] * Nurin hugs lucille [18:32] * Lucille ignores Nurin. [18:33] <cloudii> I hadn't realized this room had become such a cuddle-fest [18:33] <Nurin> too late [18:33] <Nurin> lol [18:33] * stellarroze hugs Lucille [18:33] * Lucille hugs stellarroze. [18:33] * Kira0802 cuddles cloudii [18:33] <nanodesuyo> kira creepy [18:33] <+Lord-Simon> There are CMS like: Django-CMS, Ghost, Typo3 and Joomla! [18:33] <Kira0802> cloudii is like a fluffy cloud in my head [18:33] * cloudii too sleepy to care [18:33] <Kira0802> Simon is a fluffy bear [18:33] <+Lord-Simon> Which I used at some time for test [18:33] <Kira0802> :DD [18:34] <+Lord-Simon> Django-CMS requires time investment to make the site look good and you have to create templates. [18:34] <+Lord-Simon> There are some that look good, but still... [18:35] <+Lord-Simon> Ghost runs on NodeJS [18:35] <+Lord-Simon> and isn't that cpu friendly [18:36] <cloudii> Question: On the sidebar, is there are reason why the Facebook link goes to the facebook group, but not the "other facebook page"? Is it worthwhile to have links to both? [18:36] <Kira0802> no [18:36] <Kira0802> The "other FB page" isn't something good [18:37] <Rock96> We need to hide Mayo.Chan from good people [18:37] <Rock96> *Innocent [18:37] <+Lord-Simon> But it has some nice minimalistic designs [18:37] <+Lord-Simon> Typo3... I don'T want to talk about it. It's a "bit" to big for a blogging platform [18:38] <Misogi> Hah... almost the end. [18:39] <+Lord-Simon> Joomla, well didn't spend much time with it. Seems nice, but need a bit more research. [18:39] <+Lord-Simon> So I can't say much about it [18:39] <+Lord-Simon> . [18:40] <cloudii> by "other facebook page", I meant the official BT page (not the group) [18:40] <cloudii> (and certainly not mchan) [18:40] <+Lord-Simon> *hush* [18:41] <+Lord-Simon> don't mention it [18:41] <cloudii> Oh right, this is being recorded…………. [18:41] <Rock96> There is one...? [18:41] <cloudii> https://www.facebook.com/Baka.Tsuki.org [18:41] <+Lord-Simon> So, WP seems as a good choice [18:42] <+Lord-Simon> and most people who had something to do with blogs, used WP at least once [18:42] <+Lord-Simon> probably [18:42] <+Lord-Simon> The user management is easy [18:42] <+Lord-Simon> and the framework is robust [18:42] <krytyk> grahhhhhh [18:42] <krytyk> geek talk [18:42] <+Lord-Simon> As to the design [18:43] <thelastguardian> back [18:43] <Rock96> @cloudii, hm, I'm in that one... [18:43] <thelastguardian> looking good [18:43] <thelastguardian> i have nothing against WP btw.... [18:43] <Misogi> WP isn't a bad choice. [18:44] <+Lord-Simon> And WP has some nice Nginx configurations [18:44] <+Lord-Simon> btw [18:44] <Kira0802> hm? [18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Layout and format... [18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Do I treat them the same ? [18:44] <+Lord-Simon> Because I'm confused by the format. [18:45] <+Lord-Simon> Either way, I don't see a real need to change the layout of the blog [18:46] <Kira0802> why did we need to change it to begin with? [18:47] <+Lord-Simon> It is quiet minimalistic and most people who visit it are familiar with it [18:47] <cloudii> TLG mentioned briefly he wasn't perfectly satisfied with wp [18:47] <cloudii> But it seems like TLG isn't that against it [18:47] <+Lord-Simon> Kira, it's about giving the Admin right to someone [18:47] <Kira0802> no one posts in the blog anyway :/ [18:47] <thelastguardian> i am not stisified with how 'our' WP looks currently [18:47] <+Lord-Simon> really ? [18:48] <cloudii> Oh, then just install a template [18:48] <cloudii> that's pretty easy.... [18:48] <thelastguardian> not WP in general (well, except for all the exploited WP sites online, anyway) [18:48] <+Lord-Simon> you can't do a thing against that [18:48] <+Lord-Simon> except you upgrade the site constantly and on time [18:48] <Misogi> WP should be upgraded. [18:48] <thelastguardian> WP is not very secure, that's all :) [18:48] <+Lord-Simon> and/or have some magical configuration that will stop the attack [18:49] <Misogi> And Jetpack should be put, too. [18:49] <+Lord-Simon> really ? [18:49] <+Lord-Simon> nah [18:49] <+Lord-Simon> you can just add GAnalytics [18:49] <+Lord-Simon> and it's done [18:49] <+Lord-Simon> Well, if there was a secure CMS [18:50] <+Lord-Simon> we wouldn't talk about WP [18:50] <+Lord-Simon> and other CMS [18:51] <Kira0802> can we just take a template on the net? [18:51] <Kira0802> http://themesguru.net/wordpress-themes/anime-press.html [18:51] <Kira0802> or something? [18:51] <Kira0802> something similar* [18:51] <cloudii> themes aren't that hard to find [18:52] <thelastguardian> anything is fine, really [18:52] <thelastguardian> you might want to consult with oni though :) [18:52] <thelastguardian> i don't know what he might has in mind [18:52] <cloudii> Oni says he can't remember the blog password, iirc [18:52] <+Lord-Simon> I'd really put something minimalistic [18:52] <+Lord-Simon> no fancy stuff [18:52] <Misogi> ... May we move on to forum matters? [18:52] <+Lord-Simon> text and a few images in posts [18:52] * Misogi see that there's only 3 things left. [18:53] <+Lord-Simon> Well, I know what should be posted [18:53] * Misogi was wrong. Four, but two are quite long. [18:54] <cloudii> Can't we just make this easy and promote another Forum Admin? [18:54] <+Lord-Simon> and if the users do not behave, use force and dictatorship [18:54] <cloudii> or is that a no-no? [18:54] <+Lord-Simon> What about the forum ? [18:54] <thelastguardian> okay, we will leave the blog issue for another day. Lord-Simon, if no one else wants the job, you get it (and if someone does, well, collaborate) [18:54] <+Lord-Simon> sure [18:54] <+Lord-Simon> All I have to do is that it stays on topic and they behave [18:54] <Misogi> I'll note that. [18:55] <thelastguardian> as for the forum...... [18:55] <+Lord-Simon> Forum [18:55] <thelastguardian> froum groups? [18:55] <+Lord-Simon> yes [18:55] <thelastguardian> forum* [18:55] <Misogi> There are two easy things before. [18:55] <cloudii> user privileges for one [18:55] <Misogi> Disapproval Bug and PMs. [18:55] <thelastguardian> i feel like i might not be the best person to lead the change [18:55] <thelastguardian> because i am not familiar how the current system works [18:56] <cloudii> It's mostly just an inbalance of power [18:56] <cloudii> most of the individuals that have rights are not particularly active [18:56] <+Lord-Simon> TLG, on a side note: "Redirect Login and Registration pages to a encrypted (TLS) version. " [18:57] <cloudii> iirc, only you (TLG), Oni, bicube, and Vaelis are global mods [18:57] <cloudii> so basically, you four plus Teh Ping and rrapo (for some weird reason) are the only individuals able to ban/unban [18:57] <+Lord-Simon> Here is also a nice theme that is minimal: http://dimsemenov.com/themes/touchfolio/demo/blog/ [18:58] <stellarroze> hmm mmm mmm [18:58] <thelastguardian> Lord-Simon: I've changed the redirect setting associated with cookies; I am not sure if it would break anything though [18:58] <+Lord-Simon> Well [18:58] <thelastguardian> let me take a look at the forum user rights page first [18:59] <+Lord-Simon> there are encrypted normal cookies [18:59] <cloudii> It's a slight issue because there's a number of forum banned users waiting to be unbanned http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7251&start=30 [18:59] <cloudii> and there's no one who can do it........ [19:00] <+Lord-Simon> still doesn't enforce the redirect [19:00] == ProBlackbird [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [19:00] <thelastguardian> logout/login [19:00] <+Lord-Simon> wiki [19:00] <+Lord-Simon> or forum ? [19:01] <thelastguardian> clear the forum cookie [19:03] <+Lord-Simon> done [19:04] <+Lord-Simon> https://www.baka-tsuki.org:80/forums/index.php?sid=**** [19:05] <milki> zomg [19:05] <milki> wiki says thelastguardian is the founder [19:06] * Misogi has cold fingers. [19:06] <+Lord-Simon> hm... [19:06] <+Lord-Simon> doesn't work that well [19:06] <+Lord-Simon> What I was saying is to use nginx to force it [19:10] <+Lord-Simon> Hahahahaha [19:11] <+Lord-Simon> Now I see [19:11] <+Lord-Simon> non-encrypted connection uses sid [19:12] <+Lord-Simon> and encrypted ones use cookies [19:13] <Kira0802> ??? [19:14] <thelastguardian> yeah [19:14] <thelastguardian> i wish i have a test server :) [19:15] == Valdars [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [19:15] <+Lord-Simon> Hmmm.... [19:15] <cloudii> lol Simon [19:15] <+Lord-Simon> Should I set up one ? [19:16] <thelastguardian> nah [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> it's like [19:17] <thelastguardian> everything should be fix now [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> 5 min ? [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> ah [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> damn [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> dorgot the ssl [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> and stuff [19:17] <+Lord-Simon> *sigh* [19:17] <cloudii> thelastguardian, what exactly did you change? [19:18] <cloudii> (asking for Misogi's sake xD) [19:19] <thelastguardian> iirc, i put in a hack to the code to work around a phpbb cookie bug a long time ago [19:19] <thelastguardian> i just removed it [19:19] <+Lord-Simon> well [19:22] <+Lord-Simon> That can wait for a longer time [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> encryption rises the load of the server [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> so... [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> Ah [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> what I wanted to ask [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> as I don't really get to notice it in time [19:23] <+Lord-Simon> how often is the b-t site not reachable ? [19:23] <cloudii> A couple times every month [19:24] <cloudii> You can tell by the inflow of messages on the Official Facebook page xD [19:24] <Kira0802> for me it's about once every month [19:24] <thelastguardian> our current hoster is as reliable as the last 1 [19:25] <+Lord-Simon> ... [19:25] <thelastguardian> so expect slightly more downtime than last year [19:25] <thelastguardian> *shrug* [19:25] <thelastguardian> i didn't know until i switched [19:25] == Rock96 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [19:25] <+Lord-Simon> downtime, as in connection problems with the server ? [19:25] <thelastguardian> it has pretty good reputation on webhostingtalk though [19:25] <thelastguardian> so i am not too worry [19:25] <thelastguardian> connection issues, yes [19:26] <+Lord-Simon> do you at least keep backups of the DB ? [19:26] <thelastguardian> of course :) [19:26] <+Lord-Simon> daily backup ? [19:26] <thelastguardian> weekly [19:26] <thelastguardian> daily would blow my data cap [19:27] * Lord-Simon is sceptical [19:27] <+Lord-Simon> let's see... [19:27] <+Lord-Simon> the DB of the wiki should be aroun [19:27] <+Lord-Simon> 400-500 MB [19:27] <thelastguardian> nah [19:27] <thelastguardian> off by 2 magnitude [19:28] <+Lord-Simon> ? [19:28] <+Lord-Simon> How much exactly ? [19:28] <+Lord-Simon> or around ? [19:29] <thelastguardian> from the most recent backup (gzip): [19:29] <+Lord-Simon> btw [19:29] <thelastguardian> db @ 23GB [19:29] <+Lord-Simon> 23GB [19:29] <+Lord-Simon> hmm... [19:29] <thelastguardian> web @ 16GB [19:29] <+Lord-Simon> not bad [19:29] * Misogi is back. [19:30] <+Lord-Simon> what is your data cap ? [19:30] <+Lord-Simon> 2-3 TB ? [19:30] <thelastguardian> 4 or 5 TB [19:30] <thelastguardian> but we are using 3TB/month already [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> somehow small [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> I have a 10TB cap [19:31] <thelastguardian> the cap, or the usage [19:31] <thelastguardian> that's because I focused on getting better hardware [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> yeah [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> but stull [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> *still [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> I'm by Hetzner [19:31] <+Lord-Simon> and regardless of the hardware [19:32] <thelastguardian> Europe's server pricing is usually better than the states' [19:32] <+Lord-Simon> as long as you get a dedicated machine, you have 10TB Cap and 1Gbit up/down link [19:32] <+Lord-Simon> yeah [19:32] <+Lord-Simon> but I think hetzner do offer servers in the states too [19:34] <Misogi> I'll have to go in 30 minutes, should we finish solving some remaining matters? [19:34] <thelastguardian> anyway, another reason why i don't do daily backup is because i don't trust mysql incremental backup [19:34] <+Lord-Simon> Well, if there is a need. There are a few people on the forums that have their own servers [19:34] <+Lord-Simon> if there is a need to relocate some data heavy things [19:34] <+Lord-Simon> just drop by [19:34] <thelastguardian> nah, it's okay [19:34] <thelastguardian> thanks for the offer though [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> The one thing I have to say [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> it's always bad to have the static storage and the website on one server [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> static = images and stugg [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> *ff [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> brb [19:35] <+Lord-Simon> 15 min [19:35] <thelastguardian> misogi, let me do some research on the forum permission first [19:36] <Misogi> Understood. [19:36] <thelastguardian> i will keep my irc client on [19:36] <+Lord-Simon> After that there is the sidebar [19:36] <+Lord-Simon> the excessively long justification [19:36] <Misogi> Disapproval Bug, PMs, Sub-Forums and Groups. [19:37] <+Lord-Simon> thelastguardian, I'll send you the complete log tomorrow. I'm probably sure that this will end in a few hours [19:37] <Misogi> I'll postpone the two latters. [19:37] <Misogi> The first two are way quicker to solve. [19:37] == Rock96 [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [19:37] <thelastguardian> the disapproval bug happens to a lot of phpbb installation [19:37] == Rock96 [[email protected]] has quit [] [19:38] <thelastguardian> no 1 knows how to fix it. I will take a look at the code later. [19:38] <Misogi> You have been tested positive as a 100% whole-grain-fed-free-roaming organic Baka or have been diagnosed as a confirmed 100% off-the-charts lunatic. We are only certified to handle 50% Stupidity and 50% Lunacy, therefore it is with sad regret that you will be placed upon the waiting list to be euthanized. Fortunately, repeated reports of your condition will [19:38] <Misogi> This is the cause. [19:38] <thelastguardian> Hmmmm [19:38] <Misogi> Remove 4 of the 5 sentences. [19:38] <Misogi> The bug happened a while after that was added. [01:40] -!- krytyk [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Despair... puny humans...] [01:44] < Misogi> Need to go. [01:44] -!- Misogi [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] [01:47] -!- SkyZenith [[email protected]] has joined #Baka-Tsuki [01:51] -!- SkyZenith [[email protected]] has quit [] [01:57] <+Lord-Simon> back [01:57] <+Lord-Simon> So [01:57] <+Lord-Simon> is this the end ? [02:01] <+Lord-Simon> btw. TLG [02:01] <+Lord-Simon> Don't forget to note down the expiration date of the SSL/TLS certificate [02:06] < thelastguardian> I know [02:06] < thelastguardian> seems like like, I guess [02:09] < stellarroze> wow [02:09] < stellarroze> it's been 12 hours [02:09] * stellarroze hugs thelastguardian [02:09] * stellarroze hugs Lord-Simon [02:09] * Lord-Simon hugs stellarroze [02:09] < stellarroze> i'd give you guys a drink but i don't drink alcohol XD [02:09] <+Lord-Simon> welcome back [02:11] <+Lord-Simon> So this is it. [02:12] <+Lord-Simon> I'll download the copy of the log [02:12] <+Lord-Simon> from the last 24 hours [02:12] <+Lord-Simon> and send it to TLG